Well done....great simple analysis. I took lessons from George at the National Golf Club, Toronto in 1981 and 1982. He was as pure as they come at stricking the ball. He was also a very nice man..... He described the golf swing as rhythm and balance.....and further that you should never do anything at the expense of balance. He also termed a saying..."Most people play golf to relax....it's the opposite he would say. You need to relax... to play golf. Tension free "

@MrLeftyno1

5 жыл бұрын

Spot on J.P

@j.p.montpellier3834

4 жыл бұрын

Dennis, when I played 18 holes with him at the National I noticed he had basically NO CONFIDENCE with the putter. He and Moe Norman would compete to see who could hit more pins. He was also a family man and I think he didn't care much about living out of a suitcase on tour. His raw talent was grace personified....😊🍺🇨🇦

@j.p.montpellier3834

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-ev1uj You're right mon ami....if he had been just an average putter he would have crush it. His hero Ben Hogan struggled with his putting as well. It seems to be common with pure ball strikers to be streaky putters...thus very inconsistent look at at Rory Mcilroy. Finally, yes I was very fortunate to take lessons and play with him....that was 40 years ago. Crazy...where does the time go ? Note: He taugh me how to how to hit the Driver off the deck even then....he hit it like a low bullet. A real treat to watch.

@j.p.montpellier3834

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD-ev1uj Nice J.D. you've done well. We are of similar age...I'm 61. ❤️ your story...especially the 1 iron. You realize the fact that you hit it puts you you in the God and Nicklaus category. Pretty good company...👏👏🥂👍 Not sure if you ever tried it before but lifting you left foot of the ground on your takeaway will engender a better turn. Nicklaus, Snead and George did it and it worked for them. Let me know if it helps and works. Stay well mon ami...Enjoy the links ! 👍😊🇨🇦

Great analysis on these classic swings. Love watching the rhythm and tempo Ben and George had. Smooth and balanced. The leverage from using proper footwork and generating the power from the ground up is a major key to their brilliant ball striking.

@MrLeftyno1

6 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for viewing.

2 of my 3 favorite swings. Thanks!

@MrLeftyno1

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video Rob.

Fabulous analysis Andrew. Right on point! There was another golfer I marveled at, somewhat out of amazement, back in the old days. Not a similar looking swing to these two beauties, his arms started bent, the right elbow was flying and the golf club pointed to the sky and seemed to be doing figure 8's on the start down. His footwork was so good and he moved so well from his back foot to his front foot it negated all of the "sins" of the backswing. I just couldn't stop watching Miller Barber hit a golf ball. He must have been a marvelous dancer too!

Great analysis and words of wisdom! ⛳

@MrLeftyno1

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your reply Anthony ,glad you enjoyed the video,Happy New Year.

I love your explanation. thanks.

@MrLeftyno1

8 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed the video Youngsun, thanks.

Both of them have exceptional footwork , a lot of movement in the left knee rotating the hips kind of leading the swing.

totally agreed!!

I believe that Jack Nicklaus said that if George Knudson would have been a better putter, he would have won several major championships. Knudson’s ball striking was amongst the best in golf.

@MrLeftyno1

3 жыл бұрын

Very true, I believe Jack also said of George, He has a million dollar swing and a 10 cent putter.

Great Video

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jamie, glad you enjoyed it.

Great comparison. Knudson caddied for the great Stan Leonard in addition to following Hogan. Knudson's book "Natural golf swing" is under-rated. But it discusses his ideas of balance and weight transfer. Thanks.

@MrLeftyno1

7 жыл бұрын

Yes I have read Knudson:s book which I think is a very underrated but great book, my own game has improved so much just by working on my balance and transfer, thanks for watching

@BarryTammyGibsonOver50Golf

3 жыл бұрын

Had the opportunity to watch Knudson several times growing up and take in some teaching clinics from him before he passed. Terrific insights into the swing and biomechanics long before that become trendy and popular with many today. His book is brilliantly simplistic and focuses on movement and motion. The way it should be! Both books are great, Hogan and Knudson. Could watch these two all day long! Thanks for the vids! Great!

Yessir, I agree they are pushing off that back foot. Knudson details it in his book. Hogan does not spell it out like that, but very obvious he did it too. Thanks.

They''re pulled down into the hitting area by gravity and centrifugal force, then you go at it with your right hand as hard as you can. But if you try to turn it loose before that, it's curtains.

@MrLeftyno1

5 жыл бұрын

Definitely right Mox, its a just like a throwing action.

I agree with the ground forces but the main force appears to be with the left leg moving laterally and up as the right pocket is going to the target just before transition starts ,not a push from the right leg but a pull from the left hip and leg

@MrLeftyno1

7 жыл бұрын

The problem Garry is that a good swing is a blend of all of the body working in unison to create a Kinetic chain of movement that is why golfers who are small who do this well like a Ian woosnam could hit the ball so well and far. To say one leg is more important than another is to miss this point,, lift your right leg and see how far the ball goes and i bet you lose more than a few yards of distance. We need the whole body in a swing just like salt in a meal may only be 1% of the total content but miss it out and you notice.

Thanks Andrew can you give me the kinetic order of parts in the transition.If I start left ,stay left,go left,or if only have one leg eg earnest jones ,manual de la Torre and swing the club head they both work well ,but not as well as the centrifugal release of Ben hogan or the release of the discus throw but not as accurate .is this the compromise I have to make or is there a way to have distance and accuracy .noting see woo kim only had 10 greens in regulation but got up and down 8 times should I spend more time on the short game .

@MrLeftyno1

7 жыл бұрын

I will try and be short as a lot of questions asked Garry. the kinetic chain is explained very well by Pete Cowen in a video on KZread called the Pyramid of Power Manuel de la Torre (Ernest Jones) technique is a nice simple technique and many like it, the important thing is to pick a method you like and stick to it ,so many golfers flit from technique to technique and never find a swing there are many poor swings on tour but very few double minded pros . Even Ben Hogan said that 70% of his game was mental and only 30 % swing.. the last point on practicing your short game is as I said to a beginner golfer at the range, as he was trying to hit a target 150 yards away , can you hit the 50 yard target no he replies well until you can hit that 3 out of 5 times do not bother with 150 yards. Your short game is a smaller version of your full swing so yes spend more time on that then your long game , most amateurs spend 80% of there time on long game and 10 % on mid-irons the other 10% on putting,chipping,pitching and bunker play ,totally inadequate , As short game Coach Dave Pelz said if the average golfer spent more time in the bunker they would be better drivers of the ball and bunker players, hope this helps.

@grahamjones7371

7 жыл бұрын

Ive not practiced with my driver for 5 years but Im not to proud to practice on the grotty pitchnputt attached to my course,I shot my first sub-par round last year and looking forward to many more! Proves your point.

Trevino said George "released the club." He clearly does. The hands are not as passive as Hogan's, but indeed they are pulled down and not apparently active until late, when the left wrist supinates to prep for the right hand release. George sets the left foot closer to target line than would a square stance, although he doesn't close his hips or shoulders at address. With the left leg serving as a blocker, he can post it up much sooner than if there was room for the left hip to rotate around before the left knee extends. The club can't get over the top.

Look how steady Bens head is...beautiful balance.

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

It sure is Michae, I always used to try and keep my head still, until I realized that my balance was in my feet, stay balanced and the head will stay still, thus your center of rotation stays the same and my ball striking improved so much, thanks for watching.

@michaelbrownlee9497

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrLeftyno1George said he felt mechanical at this point of his carreer. Such a perfectionist. Look at the power Ben generates, such grace. Beautiful swings, these were the greatest days of Golf.

mikal George Knudson studied Ben Hogans golf swing and Hogan studied , Abe Mitchell swing. One of the few swings Ben Hogan stated that he admired and learned from. Both Hogan and Knudson displayed features of Abe Miltchell's motion. "Down to Scratch" by Mitchell says this about the takeaway: "Suppose you are sweeping grass by left to right sweeps with a broom held like a golf club, with the right hand below the left. You would press down and slightly roll the wrists from right to left as you made the sweeps from left to right. That is precisely the initial wrist action for the golf swing. It tends to keep the left elbow in, it prevents the right hand from lifting and it gets the right foot working from the very beginning...

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

True he did, but Hogan also studied Sam Byrd as well, but as Hogan said himself 70% of the game is Mental, you need both parts to be great at this game. Thanks for watching.

@dtgps

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrLeftyno1 True, that Hogan kept his right palm facing the sky from top of his BS through impact, just as a baseball swing. No hitting with hands, rather great lag and body release. Start the takeaway and DS correctly, not too much to go wrong. cheers

Their swings may start from the ground, but it ends up being transferred through their arms and wrists into the club. Knudsen especially had a very whippy action, he really used the levers of his arms and wrists to get such great clubhead speed. Without that free and easy whipping motion he applied to the club by letting the wrists cock and uncock, he would not have hit the ball as crisply or as far as he did.

the more vertical your swing is, the more you're gonna feel that gravity plays a part with the arms coming down and the harder it is to get the hip and leg action to pull the arms down into position and capture the ball. the pushing action is allowed by the flatter rotation with zero slide. you are doing an elvis presley with your hips and legs but the leading hip pulls back and slightly up. with this action you will feel and understand why hogan said you cannot move the hips too fast. you can turn around super fast but never loose balance whilst the arms and club do a figure 8 from above as they are dragged by the drive of lower body action.

Have you noticed how hard it is to do this type swing from t-boxes that are soft and squishy

I agree with your statement that the arms are pulled down by the action of the lower body. And even that energy of the swing starts from the ground up. However I believe the secret of the classic swingers are their conscious manipulation and activation of their trail elbow. Simply put at the top of their swing they inch their trail elbow up a bit more. This single action of the trail elbow causes tension between the upper and lower body which transcribes into the backswing and the shifting of weight on the downswing occurring precisely at the exact same moment. This one trigger with the trail elbow at the top then allow the classic player to simply swing though as fast as they can while maintains a perfect balance within their swing. Try it and I guarantee you will love it. Cheers

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

As George Knudson said and Manuel de la Torre said the arms will do exactly what they need to do if you swing the club, too try and do something is to interfere with the natural swinging motion.

@thomasfraser9072

4 жыл бұрын

Andrew Linch to swing the arms so called naturally and failing to create elastic potential energy between the upper and lower body to me would serve no purpose; as my arms at 72 years are not that powerful. Hogan always started his forward swing with his lower body as he was still completing his backswing. This can only have been done with the very slight inching with the trail elbow at the top of his swing. However if one is overly dependent on their arms to swing a golf club I can see why they would not want to try this. Cheers

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

@@thomasfraser9072 Elastic potential is created when you start the downswing with your feet like Hogan did, strong arms are only needed for lifting shopping bags not for swinging a golf club, Bubba Wtson has tremendous speed with some of the weekest arms in golf.

@thomasfraser9072

4 жыл бұрын

Andrew Linch I believe Bubba has a flying raised trail elbow that comes very close in alignment to or even passes his trail shoulder This is what I am referring to However at 72 the best I can naturally raise my elbow at the top of my swing is about 30 degrees below my trail shoulder. This is a natural swing for me.

The arrow on hogans foot is in the wrong direction. He twisted his feet into the ground in a Clockwise direction.

Golfers who have a lot of lateral motion tend to have ball positions that are more forward.

@MrLeftyno1

8 жыл бұрын

+Brian Sulzbach interesting point Brian , my thought is if you slide you alter where the club will bottom out in the swing as you have moved your centre, I am trying to slide less myself at the moment, I want the swing as simple as possible not full of compensations.

unfortunately this is Hogan as an old man (but younger than me!) after his accident whilst Knudson is in his dynamic prime.Agree with everything you say, but dont overdo it or create a powerleak by not using the arms.I like my arms to feel heavy on the backswing,its so hard to describe tho active but switched off! Hogan called it dynamic tension.I had switched off my upper trail arm and was compensating by overusing the legs and body,but now ive got heavy arms again just had my best comp round of year(so far!) a 5 over 75.

Knudson looks a bit like count yogi throughout his swing

Andrew,just stumbled across this and thought I'd ask you a question: I'm a fellow pro and have taught for 30 years and I liked your pairing of George and Ben, but I think you've got something wrong here and I wanted to ask you something and then expound... So I ask:How would the arms and hands be "pulled" down by "pushing off the right foot/leg?Can't happen. A push from the right leg cannot, will not pull the club down. Think about it. There is no "push" in the best golf swings. The right leg for all practical purposes is dead past about 3/4s of the upwswing. Acting just as a stable brace. Its force vector moving into body. The "weight shift", and I use that term loathingly because there is no body mass shift, only pressure shifts from leg to leg until post impact when the arm/club unit pulls the body mass balanced over the left leg. The pressure shift occurs when the left leg flexes, intentionally and timed at the correct moment. This deweighting of the left leg pressures the right stable braced right leg momentarily, before the natural fall back into the left leg. Its this fall, this vertical downward force that "pulls" the golf club back earthwards. And only that. Any "push" off the right leg is crash city. There is immense pressure on the right leg pre fall, but no push. Once the club gets below mid body with shaft pointed earthward, then the left leg extends, pushing up and back, and the pelvis moves up and back. And there's your "bull whip" idea. As a side note, the rt leg collapses, goes limp asap as soon as the fall left lands the body mass pressure on the left leg. This intentionally collapsed and limp leg then becomes an inertial force to swing around and against on the upward part of follow through. Exactly how we throw for example. You think about what I'm saying, cause I'm right. :)I just hate to see the "push" stuff cause it doesn't work. If you push of the right leg with the club above you it creates a force that guarantees OTT w/o some goofy compensatory move, or worse, a passive gravity type transition, where one loses a tremendous amount of space/time that one could use to accelerate the club. Not to mention its frkn impossible to time that day in day out.The other problem with the incorrect "push" notion is that most humans/students are horrifically one sided in their bodies. And most often right sided. Their right leg is much "stronger" and much more hard wired to their brain, just like their right arm/hand. And any focus on It will doom them to overuse. When in actuality, I believe the golf swing is much more, if not totally a left legged event, short of the initial simple stable bracing of the right leg. There is no push. Only pressure as the left leg deweights and the fall proceeds. You cannot get vertical forces from pushing, and you need vertical forces because the club is above you. The only vertical force available is gravity, and to get it you must let the body fall into the left leg. Ben is so sneaky the way he does it, but watch closely and you'll see it. There is an extra flexion of the left leg pre transition. Extra, in the sense that it is not accommodating the turn any longer. That's the deweight. Nicklaus does it vividly and obviously when you know what you're seeing. As all the great strikers do. Watch the great baseball hitters. Same thing.Anyway, I liked your enthusiasm in the video and I liked that you selected Knudsen with Hogan. One of the great swings and great strikers George was. Too bad he couldn't putt to save his life. Not in the same league as Ben though, cause he did "push" somewhat and had too much lateral motion for no reason. However, he did so with a fantastic deweight and crash into the left leg also. Beat enough balls and he could do it, but mere mortals cannot do that. And it is totally unnecessary. His super wide stance was related to his need to do that. But not the best it could have been.Ponder what I'm saying. Experiment with it. Stop pushing. Think vertical forces only with the legs. The lateral motion comes from falling from one leg to the other, but the forces the leg create are only vertical. Like running. I believe Hogan once said, that he "ran at the ball". Exactly.Keep the faith and keep trying to make players better.:)over an out,R.

@MrStianw

8 жыл бұрын

+555Trout I disagree with some of the things you are saying. A push from the right leg, or as other would say "starting the weight shift", if done correctly will result in a person dropping his right shoulder while moving his hips slightly towards target which then causes the arms and hands to drop further down

@gordonmeek225

7 жыл бұрын

555Trout like your analysis tell me more

@555Trout

7 жыл бұрын

I just answered Andrew of a year ago. Never saw his reply. Not sure what'd you like to discuss?

@gordonmeek225

7 жыл бұрын

555Trout they both fall not push off an angled right leg?

@555Trout

7 жыл бұрын

Knudson has significantly more lateral push, but does deweight and then fall into the front leg also. As all great strikers must. The way to see why this is so important is to realize that they have a way of getting energy into the club from the very top down. Pushers have to let the club "Fall". And that's wasted space and time. Nicklaus was just awesome at this btw. Watch him closely in his prime and you'll see it clear as day. He literally is suspended on his right leg, and he "shuffles" his left knew over his left foot as the club begins down, then slams down into his left leg just hammering the ball as he does so. No, pushing doesn't make sense from a simple physics point of view. We need a force vector downward not targetward at transition. A good way to see the deweighting of the left leg is to not on close inspection that the great strikers continue to flex the left knee well past the point where it would be simply accomodating a backswing "turn". Especially Nicklaus! Snead too. And no "weight shift" for goodness sakes, where the cg of the body actually moves to and fro. Only pressure shifts, which is different. And the pressures are always opposing the direction the club is moving. Hope that helps.

Still there is an essential folding then straightening of the right arm. This clearly must happen.

@MrLeftyno1

4 жыл бұрын

Yes it does happen Jay, but it just happens it is not forced or manipulated

U forgot Moe Norman and his foot work… canadiens only talk about Moe and George and tiger said only hogan and Moe ever owned their swing

70% or more in the mind is true is true for any of the top athletes - loads of people with better technique than Jack Nicklaus but he had incredible levels of focus and concentration. There's a limit imposed bby poorer technique that is hard to get past, Andy Murray with Federers technique would have been awesome, for example.

Add these two swings together and out comes Moe.

@MrLeftyno1

Жыл бұрын

Sorry Oz , not seeing that at all Moe is all straight arms and not much use of the legs whereas Hogan & Knudson used there legs a lot more.

@ozmoe754

Жыл бұрын

@@MrLeftyno1 was just a bit of a joke, put two of the best ball strikers together and out pops an even better one.

@MrLeftyno1

Жыл бұрын

@@ozmoe754 No probs Oz, will take any of the three 🤣🤣

@ozmoe754

Жыл бұрын

@@MrLeftyno1 you and me both.😁

A very long comment ,but will do my best to reply, what you say is the rear leg plays no part in the forward swing ,I disagree with you as Ben Hogan lost a US Open due to his rear foot slipping on downswing causing a Hook , when i boxed I used my my whole body to punch rear leg to brace on turn and push ( transfer if you like) going forward Pete Cowan calls it the Pyramid of power move World No 1 or 2 golf coach so pretty succesful, the move is subtle but a good golf swing uses the whole body to create power just like Pitchers ,boxers etc do,, your method sounds a bit Stack and Tilt, which i am not a fan of at all. Plus the arms are pulled down by the body moving, ie my fist move fast because the arm was relaxed and my Kinetic chain created the speed also like a baseball pitcher when throwing a pitch. that is why i like the Bullwhip analogy as the but of the whip is the feet and the tip is the club head . a small movement in the hand creates incredabile speed at the tip. Anyway that is my thoughts and beliefs on the subject, take care.

@555Trout

7 жыл бұрын

I have no idea why I'm just seeing your reply a year ago Andrew. Well, we'll have to disagree amicably then. I will say this, when you look at the video of Mr. Hogan slipping, his foot moves forward. Not away from the target. If that indicates pushing I'll eat my shoes. No question a forward punch is best done with a push vector opposite the force vector of the punch. However, that's not the force vector you want when a golf club is above you. You're trying to get downward force, exactly as if you'd hurled a big axe above your head and were about to split a log. You certainly wouldn't "push" to get the job done. I happen to think this generally wrong mental model, of propelling the club targetward is the main problem in the game. Much better to imagine one is standing on the edge of a cliff with the club hanging over it. And your job is to release the club with as much velocity downward, and slightly forward, as fast as you can get it moving. Or another way to say that is the have an immense amount of "centrigul force" at and slightly past the ball. And that is not created by pushing, ever. We'll agree to disagree. But its plaine as day to me. A better fighting analogy would be punching your opponent with he was on the ground. Would you push? Nope.

@grahamjones7371

7 жыл бұрын

I hope you agree but I think your detractors are misinterpreting the rear leg pushing, it pushes down into the ground more than in a forwards direction and if you are reasonably athletic this compression of the right side helps the leftside stretch causing pressure into the ground through the left foot

@MrLeftyno1

7 жыл бұрын

Well Put Graham, I always tell students I could beat Usain Bolt over a hundred metres if his feet were a suspended above the floor, ie no ground contact means no power, we need both legs in the swing otherwise tour players would stand on one leg lol, we push into the ground and push out , it makes common sense and all elite players do it, stack and tilt is not used on tour so that says it all really,

@grahamjones7371

6 жыл бұрын

I have improved a lot since my last comment and simplified my swing thoughts.Basically the lower body and torso work against the ground But the shoulders arms hands work against the grip/clubThe sequencing is as Hogan states in Power golf which is the torso moves fractionally before the arms ( frustratingly he completely reverses this sequence in Mod Fund! which I think is wrong)

@grahamjones7371

6 жыл бұрын

I realised that a drill Id done for years (club behind shoulder blades) was completely wrong for me( led to in over and accross) but the same drill with the club across my chest has transformed my swing!

Yeah easy for the greatest ball striker the game has ever seen to say "70% is mental". I can't get the ball in the air 70% of the time, so we are certainly worlds apart on this one!

A

keep it simple but truth is how to deal with the arm ( l or r ) all the rest will react accordingly

@MrLeftyno1

7 жыл бұрын

A year ago i covered this in a reply below, what i will say to those who say move the arms and the rest will react, is this watch a child throw a ball the child will move their arm only and the ball will not go far, as the child develops his throwing technique he will start using his body along with a transfer of weight utilizing balance, a baseball pitcher is the extreme of this learning curve. Again a great swing is using the Kinetic chain in balance to achieve a great swing. Rhythm is when all the components balance,Kinetic chain work together to make a great swing and shot.

In the D, eh?

what about Moe Norman? He and George played together often, and he IS the best ballstriker to have ever lived

Knunson routinely drives the ball over 300 yards straight in the middle of the fairway he was a monster. He's also one of the best putter who ever lived. He made 99% of the putts inside 10 feet which record will never be broken. The best ever!

@AndrewDCDrummond

7 ай бұрын

Except that he wasn't a good putter and also wasn't long...

absolut no

Ridiculous analysis. It's largely centrifugal force, not leg push. Look how close both of their hands stay to their bodies in the downswing. It's like an ice skater...when they spin with their arms away from their body they turn slowly, when they pull them into their body, they create much more force and speed.

@tdh633

6 жыл бұрын

Try creating that centrifugal force without using ground pressure.

@guitarheros7204

6 жыл бұрын

That's conservation of angular momentum, actually. Centrifugal force does not actually exist. We feel it, because we are in a non-inertial coordinate system. Nevertheless, it appears quite real to the object being rotated. This is because the object believes that it is in a non-accelerating situation, when in fact it is not.

@j.p.montpellier3834

5 жыл бұрын

Fair comment on centrifugal force....I took lessons from George and he did allude to this notion. He described the force as.... "If you control the centre you'll control the movement."

@JohnMartin-jx1wz

4 жыл бұрын

Hips can only move through the actions of the leg. Theybhave no independent movement.

@thomok

4 жыл бұрын

@@guitarheros7204 Objects don't believe.