“Disabling killer powers is too complicated” The void arena during the Halloween event: Well alright guess I’ll just go screw myself then.

@RaffoPhantom

Ай бұрын

Yeah, that's a really good point.

@ScottJund

Ай бұрын

oh yeah thats an even more recent example

@Antitied

Ай бұрын

TRUEEEEEE

@mitchsz

Ай бұрын

Yeah they already have the code for that!

@seifunaru

Ай бұрын

To be fair, you guys got the developper's comment wrong, read it again. They don't mean it's "complicated code-wise". They mean it's complicated from a planning and balancing perspective: "should all killers powers be disabled or just some of them?", "if all of them must be disabled, what happens with trapper or witch traps for example?", "should we consider if a new killer we are designing feels a bit too weak when this perk which does something really specific is active?"... I don't know if the decission is correct or not, but I do understand the concerns. I'm guessing they are most likely thinking about a different set of solutions for that tunneling issue.

I SAW SCOTT VENT

@Amyaddisoniscool

Ай бұрын

Nah it was Red

@mitchsz

Ай бұрын

Where

@itsOasus

Ай бұрын

SUS

@pleasestopdisassemblingmylimbs

Ай бұрын

he strikes again

@BrianRocksNow

Ай бұрын

WE WERE HERE

Former game dev here, offering a lukewarm defense for BHVR. I don't think they're making excuses for why they can't make the requested change. I think this is just a case of players and devs using different language from each other. Seeing how the game is made from behind the curtain changes your perspective and makes you interpret language differently. They are probably correct that there is no such thing as active and passive killer powers in the game's code. What Blighted Serum does is overlap a button input. If Scott said "DS should disable the killer ability button for 10 seconds as well" they'd probably say "oh, that's doable. Maybe it should do that" and consider it. The thing is though, it's on BHVR to put forward the effort to have someone on the team whose job it is to translate fan feedback into actionable suggestions. And they've always seemed to struggle at that.

@Piper0185

Ай бұрын

Agreed, I love seeing people who has 0 experience in software/game development, thinking these changes are "Easy" to make. There are SO many behind the scenes things working. Its like 2v8. The work needed to actually make it happen, is insane. New map. How do killer powers interact? "killer power spawns, box, traps etc" on the map, how do those work. etc etc. Sure they did it with Halloween, but again, that was a separate "map" where it is more easily controlled. I am sick of people saying "oh they can just do that". If you dont know, dont say anything. You have no clue how they are coded, or what is involved in this process people. Make constructive criticism, but use some common sense. As Oreo said, the Blighted Serum is only a Button Overlap, push button action changed, not removing something.

@Evalora

Ай бұрын

@@Piper0185 ye it's just that dbd's sister game, identity v, has had 2v8 mode for over half a decade now, the game barely even existed for a year before they put 2v8 in and it's not like they sacrificed much development to do it either as there was tons of stuff in the works at the time, but that's the inefficiency of incompetence for you

@CeaerCeaer

Ай бұрын

@@Evalora Its more like a 2v8 is fundamentally unbalanced (contrary to common belief you need to make a fun game mode balanced otherwise = unfun)

@Evalora

Ай бұрын

@@CeaerCeaer wow it's almost like the dbd-esque 4v1 game format itself is *fundamentally unbalanced* and yet people play the alt modes in identity v like 2v8 all the time, because fun != balance, literally the first thing any quality game designer figures out

@CeaerCeaer

Ай бұрын

@@Evalora The thing with 2v8 is that it takes what works in DBD and makes it to where it doesn't DBD's chase works because theres 1 killer in a loop. So you have to play around things. Adding a second killer to a loop makes it a lose lose situation and unfun and not interactive for all parties involved.

I agree with Scott basically 100% here even down to the words chosen, they are making it sound wayyy more complicated than it actually is, after getting hit with DS killers are unable to manually use their powers for X amount of seconds. They did it fine during the Halloween event, when a killer went into the Void they couldn't use their powers. The Pinhead chain hunt didn't deactivate when he went in the Void, he just couldn't use possessed chain... and you could still trigger hag traps when she was in the void she just couldn't teleport to them.

@kausmedia1526

Ай бұрын

You are comparing a limited time event to a perk that will, I would assume, remain forever. There are just far too many assumptions being made by the community as to how disabling the killer's power is even implemented behind the scenes. You wouldn't know unless you were a developer for DBD. If they say that it wouldn't be sustainable, then it probably isn't sustainable.

@gamingmaster6377

Ай бұрын

@@kausmedia1526 nice bait

@MrGalactus95

Ай бұрын

@@kausmedia1526 Well if it's complicated to deactivate sounds like a dev skill issue.

@UltraRow

Ай бұрын

@@kausmedia1526 I'm comparing the fact that they have done it before perfectly, to the fact they can do it again. I also like the fact the developer says it isn't sustainable... unlike all the haste they keep randomly adding ay? the same devs that added original Metal of Man and say we can't see our teammates perks in the lobby because it's to hard to add. These are the same devs btw who said bots will not replace disconnected survivors because the human element of a multiplayer game is essential, and yet here we are.

@Tanspartan1

Ай бұрын

The pinhead chain hunt did deactivate in the void. Why you lying? The passive said it was still active but the chains would not spawn in the void. As for Hag yeah exactly you couldnt teleport to them. What point did you think you made by pointing out that Hag would be more unfairly punished by this supposed change? After she gets DS'd everyone would just spam trigger all her traps so this supposed "fair" perk change would be a massive nerf to Hag.

tbh just rework nurse (blight and spirit) to lose all (some) tokens/charges on any stun rather than giving ds an adhoc effect

@imhoenn5710

Ай бұрын

Exactly this. This doesn't need to disable every killer's power. Honestly not sure why nurse doesn't have a stun mechanic tied to her charges and I'm a nurse main. It's one of the simplest changes they could do to tone her down a little.

@asideofsalt.6645

Ай бұрын

No

@mitchsz

Ай бұрын

​@@asideofsalt.6645nurse/blight player detected 👀

@sovietspaceship

Ай бұрын

@@justagamethrower elaborate?

@SolidRazo

Ай бұрын

Makes me wonder why no one talks about actually adding counterplay to the killers who lack meaningful counterplay Everyone wants to balance perks around THOSE killers instead of every killer like bruh if a perk is weak against strong killers but strong against weak killers then those strong killers literally need nerfs like you point out the issue you’re self

where is breathe strip, is he ok? is he safe?

If nurse/blight just lost their tokens when stunned, it would both make them weaker in general, (which they could do with,) make pallets not entirely useless against nurse, and also make DS work better on these two killers specifically whom are probably the biggest issues in this discussion. And honestly I just feel like that would just be a good change in general since they've been at the top of the tier list for a long long time. And other, weaker, killers have a similar mechanic happen to them eg, ghostface.

@top_gallant

Ай бұрын

why not concentrate on learning how to get better rather than degrading the game. Build instead of destroy.

@Jibash

Ай бұрын

@@top_gallant because some things can't be built when bad features occupy their place

@yomama2376

Ай бұрын

@@top_gallantget better against a killer who, after the stun, will blink straight on top of you and down you again. Lol

@top_gallant

Ай бұрын

@@yomama2376 simply yes. or don't if you can't hack it. Just don't drop the IQ of the game down to your skill level.

@top_gallant

Ай бұрын

@@hewmanbeing Or dont get better and just keep losing. Just stop nerfing everything to ultra easy level and find ways to be positive. Get better and be better gamer, not a complainer.

They did this for the Halloween event right? To disable the killer powers.

@larsliamvilhelm

Ай бұрын

They clearly know how to disable their powers, as there are multiple instances where their powers get disabled in the game already. Being in the Halloween void being one of them.

@SqueletteCoolG

Ай бұрын

I don't think disabling the power is the issue here, it is how to actually code the interaction of “when decisive strike stuns, disable the killer's power”

@Aunty-Sentry

Ай бұрын

@@SqueletteCoolG alot of people are misunderstanding this, the void is a spot where no matter what every killer power is disabled, and this was bad and not enjoyable, so we are comparing something that could be harmful to something that sucked to play?

@brusselseastside3546

Ай бұрын

@@Aunty-Sentrywhat is this comment sayibg

@brusselseastside3546

Ай бұрын

@@Aunty-SentryI rly don’t know what you’re saying here. The void sucked because you couldn’t use power so DS shouldn’t disable power? Void sucked because you were wasting time helping haunts bust and not pressuring gens or survivors. The void doubly sucked because there was 2 really good windows making actual chase in the void impossible. you only really go to void as killer for blood points. DS is near useless against certain killers which is why some proper disabling powers.

The problem is in this game no matter what you do it “unfairly” hurts someone. If you do the take away the power thing after a decisive it hurts 110% killers disproportionately.

@FancyDakota

Ай бұрын

Really? Do you really think that change would be so detrimental to 110% Killers that it would be too powerful? If anything, the DS buff we're actually getting is more detrimental than the suggest Power disable one.

@user-bv9kj8hb8l

Ай бұрын

@@FancyDakota I don’t think any of the buffs are detrimental. If you don’t tunnel they waste a whole perk slot for nothing. You have a huge advantage in that case. I was just pointing out this isn’t a fair game and you can’t make things fair.

@brusselseastside3546

Ай бұрын

110 and slower killers: nurse, hag, huntress, slinger Disabling powers is pretty inconsequential for hag unless the survivor who DS’d you walks into a trap in those 3/5 seconds. The only reason why the whole disabling power thing is proposed is because of nurse and huntress and the like. Damn near impossible to do anything against a huntress or nurse or slinger after the live 3 second DS. You basically extend your chase artificially for like 10 seconds. So much for “anti-tunnel”.

@gianglai7346

Ай бұрын

​@@brusselseastside3546you forgot spirit

@simboslice4359

Ай бұрын

Regardless of who it hurts more, it disuades tunneling. If the point was to curb tunneling, does it even matter whether the perk harms some killers more than others? They could avoid the issue by just...not tunneling.

Alternatively, make it so Nurse and Blight lose tokens when stunned by any means

@gaz5396

Ай бұрын

Nah BHVR will prob give them an addon that refreshes all tokens when stunned

@Qeseu

Ай бұрын

are blight and nurse the only killers who tunnel or what? There are lots of ways to die in 3 seconds you are given by DS

@twistedf_

Ай бұрын

Or make them have an actual cooldown if you fail to use it. Why does ghostface have a ~30s cooldown after he screws up and gets exposed or whiffs when in power but blight can get 7 tokens(with adren vial) in around 12 seconds or nurse getting both blinks in 6seconds.

@arcanacapra9792

Ай бұрын

@@Qeseu No, but these two will catch up to you the most easily and consistently, to the point where DS will have negligible value most of the time against them, and that will remain true even with the stun duration buff.

@WutTheDeuceGaming

Ай бұрын

​@@arcanacapra9792 these two aren't guaranteed to get hits. I don't understand why people insinuate this is the case.

People are always going to tunnel and most of the time its just an "Oh well ggs" and move on. But I've had about 6 friends get into dbd in the last few months and its incredibly frustrating trying to get my friends into the game when they're tunneled out of matches within the first 5 minutes because of their inexperience.

@slavajuri

Ай бұрын

Everyone I've ever introduced to the game leaves because tunneling (and sometimes bleed outs) feels terrible and leads to tons of dead time. It's such a bummer.

@joshuabeaven8572

Ай бұрын

This is what happens when a p100 brings his brings a swf that are level 10 the killer sees the p100 and asume it's going to be a sweat Fest not that you're trying to teach your friends how to play the game he will treat them like they're all p100s

@nicane-9966

Ай бұрын

@@joshuabeaven8572 lets not try to pretend killers are not gonna swear their ass off even if the 4 were p1, because thats how they play normally anyway, try harding a lot and thats it. the "slow down" only exist for some killers when they already won the game they start slowing down making in the proccess of "trying to de nice" just making the experience more misserable for the survivors... reality it doesnt matter how big your prestigie is, tunnelers will tunnel regardless of level, level is not important at all, in fact is more likely to get tunelled the bigger your number is because ego reasons.

@joshuabeaven8572

Ай бұрын

@nicane-9966 yeah just like gen rushers are going to Gen Rush right it's always been amazed to me how survivors can't wrap their head around why a killer would want to get one out as soon as possible when it's a 4V one to make it more relaxed on the killer side..survivors want to do there objective fast but don't want the killers to do there's fast because it's not fun for them when you think about it that's what most Behavior balances come from the Survivor saying it's not fun for them like being gen rushed as killer is fun for them

@nicane-9966

Ай бұрын

@@joshuabeaven8572part of those reasons is because when survivors do their objective fast they are not harming the killers emotion, since you are doing gens (polygons and tahts it) meanwhile when the killer is tunneling you are making people suffer not polygons, thats the argument you usually hear AND MAKES SENSE, however is not like killers didnt have 200 gen perks to destroy the survivor progress and all the time they invested, so is like a 50/50 anyway because both affect the other in different ways... besdies for the most part in unfun when the killer doing it is one you can barelly do anything agaisnt like nruse or blight (wich it seems their lives depend on the win, if they lose a game seems his family will disown them or something) when a fat bubba tunnels there is counterplay, the problem is with the stronger killers reasons why i belive they should be affected specifically, they wont so, it doesnt matter reason why i belive the stun duration should be longer it will be frustrating to face it as killer but since they wont affect killer powers then make it universal, and make the m1 killers suffer more (even when they shouldnt)

Don't even need the fancy add-on, every time you put a survivor on your shoulder you literally enter a universal killer state where you can only attack and move. And it's even shown in the UI that you lose your power during that time.

On the whole I agree, it's relatively simple to prevent active inputs into a Killer's power for X seconds after they've been Strike'd. I think the explanation that is missing from the post is that it could lead to a lot of weird edge cases, and also impact future design decisions. Like, if Trapper is striked, will the system prevent him from grabbing someone out of a trap for that duration (is pulling someone out of his trap a part of his power?). Can Clown no longer reload the bottles during that time? That feels a bit weird, it is part of his power but it's a not an action that threatens a survivor (same with Deathslinger). It'll also impact future design decisions because they'll have to factor in what the input disable does to each killer they design. It probably won't be a lot of time, but it will be something they have to consider along with everything else that goes into a killer.

@SouSporting

Ай бұрын

Clown not being able to reload AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH Myers and GF not being able to stalk HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH Legion not being able to run AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH Huntress and Hag with no POWER HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAH Demo with no Shredd......

@felsics9441

Ай бұрын

@@SouSportingAre you having a stroke rn

@SouSporting

Ай бұрын

@@felsics9441 the thought of killers losing their powers in a game where their power is their gameplay is a riddiculous thing.

@-snek.

Ай бұрын

@@SouSporting For like five seconds dude, smoke one and chill.

@dracophoenixttv

Ай бұрын

@@-snek. in other scenarios its not just 5 seconds decisive strike plus dead hard then DS.

From a mechanical standpoint I get that it should be easy to prevent M2 powers because it already exists, but what about the CTRL function? For a lot of killers like Singularity, Hag, Dredge, Alien, or Unknown, a big part of their kit uses these to get around the map for possibly quicker catchup. Then from a user experience standpoint, there's the case where you get offensively DS'd accidentally after a 40s chase with someone else, your power gets disabled and even if you'd rather spread pressure you can't. So I can see how bhvr might not be super confident taking that option

@wrathybear

Ай бұрын

Well, sure, perhaps it's the devs' programming oversight for not organizing their codes for future implementations or possibly engine limitations which i'm guessing why Oni was the only killer that got the bug m1 lunge while carrying survivor and not for all killers. Or, they could just easily make an exception just for Nurse and Blight because these two killers are only ones that completely negates stun effect. Using DS for offensive play is a gambit and is easily noticed by how survivors play. Them actively trying to get value off of DS could have been more than half of progress worked on gen.

I believe the coding is as complicated as they say, especially with dbd’s broken spaghetti code. I think if they wanted to implement a power disable on the stun, the best way to do so would be killer specific nerfs (ie. when Nurse is stunned, including by a pallet, her power goes on cooldown).

@pachekusdimitrescus1

Ай бұрын

It'd be great to look at some parts of the code, perhaps it's a mess like Yandere Dev lol. Other than that, I agree, the most feasible solution is to simply make Blight/Nurse lose some or all of their tokens when stunned (pallets, blast mine and ds).

One small comment: it isn't "negative reinforcement", it's "punishment". Negative Reinforcement is when you remove a stimulus from the environment and that removal increases a particular behavior. Punishment deals with reducing behavior. Positive and Negative just refer to if you're adding or removing the stimulus.

Well I think what the dev was trying to tell us is that, if we stop a nurse blink power for 8 seconds, should another killers power be stopped for 8 seconds as well even though those powers are not equal in strength and/or mobility. Some killers 1 shot, some killers blink, and then you have useless killers like Legion. Then as mentioned that limits future type of killers because they’d have to consider what about if there power was disabled for 8 seconds. From a game design philosophy this idea isn’t really good. ALL killer powers are not the same or equal so they wouldn’t disable ALL killer powers for 8 seconds. This not only makes more work for them but limits creativity and such. The only solution is to give DS a buff for a harsher penalty.

@manyachievables

Ай бұрын

Who the fuck would use Legion's Power to catch up to a Survivor after getting hit by DS anyways?

@nicane-9966

Ай бұрын

@@manyachievableseeeee many, legion for distance is a good idea in many scenarios.

@playergc7252

Ай бұрын

I get what you are saying, but at that point the legion would be tunneling, so you could still justify it.

@eliasar5051

Ай бұрын

@@playergc7252 I mean, not tunneling as a legion is the least sensible thing you can do in high MMR. Find the weakest link with frenzy, as soon as you find them, get them out of the way because by the time you finish your first chase as normal M1 killer you are often down to 2 (3 at best) gens (one or more of which is usually over 50% done). Im so glad I quit maining Legion almost a year ago, things were getting bad enough for them then, can´t imagine enduring it now, especially with additions of more large maps

I'll be honest, I'm happy that they're not going through with the power disabling things, solely because I feel that being added would lead to precedent for BHVR to either change or make more perks to temporarily disable killer powers which would be the least fun thing ever. I know this is kinda stupid but idk BHVR is the type of company where once they implement the functionality for something, they really want to make the most out of it they can, and they tend to make some really dumb perks once in a while.

@MythicTF2

Ай бұрын

The problem is Nurse & Blight, honestly. It's just those 2 killers. Spirit, Wesker, and chucky sorta but they're not free hits as much as nurse is. Those 2 killers specifically need interactions with stuns of any kind, Head-On, Pallets, DS, wiggling free, they need some sort of penalty applied to help keep them in line. Like, it's okay to make killers weaker in some aspects against certain things. It shouldn't be the norm that being stunned by any means takes away your power, but in the case of the top 2 killers it probably should give you some sort of reward (as the survivor) with how hard it is to actually stun those killers in the first place. Stunning a blight is honestly not important because he can just kick it then charge you down immediately after (same with Nurse, but she doesn't even need to kick it). Hell, unless it's a god pallet blight probably doesn't even need to break the pallet.

@mayuwu4408

Ай бұрын

@@MythicTF2 I think this is a really good and elegant solution. If the idea is to normalize the punishment of the two high tier killers with the rest of the killers, why make perk changes that affect all killers game-wide when we can instead just target those two killers powers specifically? If Nurse and Blight lost all their power tokens upon being stunned by any means, that would completely sidestep all the alleged upkeep issues with making DS do that to each killer while still retaining the benefits such a change would be intended to have, and on top of that it rewards survivors for stunning these hard-to-stun killers! _(And it'd force them to be more careful of stuns, resulting in more fun plays. It's much more fun to play against a Blight that avoids the pallet stun and bounces around to try and outplay the dropped pallet than a Blight that eats the stun, breaks the pallet, and then rushes and hits you anyway.)_ Also I agree with OP, I'd hate to see more perks that disable powers but that'd be a very bhvr thing to do lmao

@SolidRazo

Ай бұрын

This comment thread makes me happy, actual people with common-sense. They’re trying to balance a perk around specific killers even though the perk affects all killers instead of balancing the killers themselves.

@CoOlKyUbI96

Ай бұрын

Personally I disagree that it would set a precedent. A big appeal for playing as Killers are their powers. No matter how many times the community may make it seem as if BVHR doesn’t care about Killers, they absolutely do. So the developers won’t start setting a precedent which almost completely ruins the whole point of playing as Killers. BVHR does rely on Killers for the game to continue thriving

@dumblenutz5561

Ай бұрын

i sure don't want a "when you blind the killer disable their power for 10 seconds" perk.

I'm glad that nobody is falling for its to complicated

I have a solution to the tunnel strategy that I would like to know your thoughts about. Gens work slower when all 4 survivors are alive, but when one is killed, the rest “enter survival mode” and can do gens 20% faster for the rest of the game. This also applies to the next person killed. I think this would improve the situation where there’s 2 gens left and only 2 survivors and they are hiding around the map. It would also shake up competitive dbd because right now each match is who can camp fastest to achieve the win. (Also in comp, anti camp is disabled which is crazy to me)

@smokinmirrors8438

Ай бұрын

One other thing, it might make 4k’s harder for the killer if they tunnel, but giving the survivors more of a chance as the rest die is good for both sides

Idk, I get what they're saying. I just don't think BHVR considers tunneling to be an issue. (and imo it isn't) I mean, it'll never be a possibility for DS to be balanced against top tier killers where it doesn't hurt like 80% of the killers. Imagine being a Ghostface and eating a stun and also not having your power. It would suck absolute ass. I don't know, man, tunneling isn't even such a big deal, people villainize it to such a high degree but it's just a strategy to win or at least gain some pressure on the survivors. It's no different from slugging or from survivors taking the hit / body blocking to ensure everyone escapes and many other strategies on both sides.

Behavior could have it coded so that perks can only affect base stats, whereas addons are specifically coded to augment powers. If that’s the case it would be far easier to make an add on entirely replace a killers power than have a survivor perk augment it, as perks might not even have any pipeline to do that

@Archimedes.5000

Ай бұрын

Except that's not true? DS already gives "stun" effect to the killer, not survivior. And there's billion of perks that give blindness or exposed or whatever to surviviors

@felsics9441

Ай бұрын

Theyre giving Huntress haste after hitting a hatchet add ons in the update this DS change comes with, so add ons can definitely affect the base stats. And there are killer perks that affect survivor items (see: Overwhelming Presence, Franklin’s Demise, Hoarder) and we know that Killer powers are coded like an item, because back in the day cheaters in lobbies with multiple killers could put their power down and pick up another. So, it should be possible for perks to affect a killer power

I actually listed every power in that thread and there are only ~5 exceptions where it might mess up things, but that was only if I expanded this to a basekit feature on hitting anti-tunnel Endurance as well. Legion/Huntress/Chucky for spacebars (Feral Vault, Reload, Scamper), and Victor and Oni power modes. Victor might only be able to search lockers (or it might be disabled) and you can't swap back. Oni might be stuck in Demon form and may or may not be able to attack, depending on if they disable the input or 'special attack'. I recommended only disabling the input, so he would still be able to tap, charge, but not dash. There were none that would matter for DS other than lingering effects. (Clown gas, Trapper traps, Knight guards and SM drones for example.)

On the subject of making tunneling equal to/worse than not doing it, they could make it so hooking a survivor again doesn't automatically advance them to the next hook stage. Instead, their entity progress will keep ticking even after they've been unhooked, stopping just before the next stage, at which point they have to be hooked again for it to advance.

@unluckycatfish6866

Ай бұрын

Assuming it skips to the next stage if another hunter is hooked: that would be a good idea!

@aroace7913

Ай бұрын

Yeah that surley would not be abused by survivers who already body block with their base borrowed time.

@theotherauthor740

Ай бұрын

@@aroace7913slug them then. or just fucking ignore them. you guys act like post-unhook endurance is impossible to play around when it’s really a minor inconvenience.

@aroace7913

Ай бұрын

@@theotherauthor740 Because that does not cost you time and will lose you the game.

Why in the world would you disable killer powers? That's one of the dumbest ideas I've heard suggested in this game. Also, it's super overcomplicated. Just leave it as a stun.

@xenomorphgirI

Ай бұрын

its because many people are saying that decisive strike is useless against strong killers like nurse and blight because they can catch back up very quickly, while its more punishing for weaker killers without mobility who get the short end of the stick with this buff

@vitorluiz2701

Ай бұрын

@@xenomorphgirI nerfing strong killers like this, because weaker killers will have more struggles is just dumb asf. It is what it is, leveling down isnt right at all.

@its_saber1525

Ай бұрын

​@@vitorluiz2701exactly, it doesn't do anything against nurse but still only hurts weaker killers BHVR needs to just make nurse lose all charges and gets locked out of power on stun basekit

@mckookie2967

Ай бұрын

4 seconds is feasible against blight nurse​@@xenomorphgirI

i can already imagine how infuriating it'd be if your power was disabled and during those few seconds you lose a gen because you couldn't teleport to it as a killer with teleportation, or miss out on getting use from an aura-reading perk as huntress. Removing the ability for someone to use their power, even for a short period of time, is just bad game design.

"Each power would need to be considered on a case by case basis to determine what should happen when they're disabled" So exactly what already happens when you stun a killer with a pallet? Certain killers lose their power (GhostFace, Legion), some lose parts of their power (Plague loses corrupt purge but not fountains) and some don't lose their power at all (nurse, trapper). So it *is* an option lol.

I wouldn't object to a "nuclear option" for DS. Remove the timer and let it work multiple times in a row. It's only disabled when another survivor is hooked, after a conspicuous action or after missing the skill-check. This is obviously a severe change, but as someone who actively tries not to tunnel I'd feel great knowing that survivors wasted a perk slot.

When it comes to undesired strategy, you need a mix of reinforcement and punishment. For this example, once you implement some punishment for tunneling, then you can implement reinforcement / reward for other strategies

Didn't they also disable Killer powers in the void during that one event?

hello Scott jund

@taylormower9655

Ай бұрын

Hi

@wickt.

Ай бұрын

@@taylormower9655 you're not Scott jund you are taylor mower

@larsliamvilhelm

Ай бұрын

Jott Scund

@clivethebird

Ай бұрын

hello herbert

@watchmehope6560

Ай бұрын

Wait. That's the Scott jund?! I thought him only myth.

7:55 I love getting my parenting advice from the Scott Jund.

As Peanits said it’s much more complicated when it’s tied to a Perk. Not only that but a survivor perk crossing the gap and affecting a killer power. Much more difficult than the Halloween event where the power was just disabled.

“It’s hard” is such a BHVR excuse, genuinely the only big thing that makes me lose some respect for them is when this excuse comes up for something that would massively benefit the game

@theotherauthor740

Ай бұрын

it’s so fucking lame. if something is too hard for your current team to do, hire some folks who know how to do it! or fucking LEARN! the complete lack of ambition is so frustrating.

I find it wild how BHVR is finally being open in their communication with the community, something we’ve asked for for years. Yet when they actually communicate with us, everyone jumps to say “I don’t believe them,” or “they’re lying to avoid it.” I think their explanation is fair and understandable. I’m not a game designer, so I’m not gonna sit here and critique their response when they are the experts actively working the code and designing elements of the game.

@dracophoenixttv

Ай бұрын

Just think of it this way a killer who can teleport can't teleport to protect a gen across the map because they were DS'd. Or disabling their power near a hook I also don't agree with you are actively stopping them from playing at that point. Tunneling doesn't prevent someone from playing they have a whole map with pallets and other teammates to help them body blocking being the best form of doing so. Imagine being freddy or unknown or sadako you get DS'd now you are disabled Hag can't teleport to traps artist can't pressure far away gens. Xeno can't crawl in a tunnel. I see exactly what they have to work with Deathslinger can't reload or clown Huntress can't go into a locker which she already wastes time going in to get hatchets.

The funny thing arguably is that the coding for disabling already existed in the fact that well plague exists and if she gets pallet stunned her power is instantly gone. or maybe the old nurse burn you would stun her and she lost her tokens.

The argument of "well there are still passive powers so it won't work" is so weird, because the difference between freddy and passive chain hunt cenobite is still way way less than between freddy and nurse

If they put killer disabling in ds im sure they will think about more perks with that effect, like a boon totem or an invocation or some shit.

The devs lowkey just don’t care, it seems to be that way every time their is a problem like this

@xykane

Ай бұрын

because tunneling has existed since the beginning of this game and isn't really a problem. its fundamental to the game in competitive and becoming fundamental against swf too.

@dakota9821

Ай бұрын

@@xykane " its fundamental to the game in competitive " Comp DBD isn't the same as regular DBD. If you have to have all these rules outside the game itself; It's not comp ready. Comp DBD is a literal joke; Comp players aren't gods. "becoming fundamental against swf too." SWF's are the least affected by tunneling and camping due to coms. You must be very low skill in this game; You have literally no clue what you're talking about.

@MrVIrginiaLUV

Ай бұрын

@@dakota9821 Why do casuals care about winning so badly? I thought it was about fun, lol.

@jakedickson2311

Ай бұрын

⁠​⁠@@dakota9821I would say SWF’s are most affected by tunnelling since it’s the best strat to beat them. It’s also the only way to beat comp teams. If you don’t turn the game into a 1v3 as soon as possible at high level play you lose

@PanmasterAtArms

Ай бұрын

@@MrVIrginiaLUV In a game like DBD, losing isn't really that fun most of the time, especially as survivor. If the killer tunnels you out at 5 gens, that wasn't really fun because you probably never got to have any fun chases,or cheeky escapes.

what if someone tries to take a hit for the unhooked surv and the killer is chasing both players? is the power disabled even if the killer wants to target the unhooker? the blighted serum can be activated by the player. the game does not have to differentiate whether the killer is tunnelling or not.

The power disabling version seems like their best bet. As u said it doesnt impede on killers who cant do the crazy chase stuff and makes it ao the ones who can, lose out on being able to insta catch up. Honestly seems like there isnt many issues with an implentation like this

Literally in the blue event (the portal one) the killers power was disabled upon entering the portal, it can be done and it is not that complicated

@UncontainablePickle-_420

Ай бұрын

Then code it for them

@backlawa7527

Ай бұрын

@@UncontainablePickle-_420 shit give me a gamedev studio worth a few mil and i will gladly do it for you

@cornpop838

Ай бұрын

Average 12 year old dbd fan🤣its not that complicated lmao, bro you’re probably still learning basic mathematics

@its_saber1525

Ай бұрын

It's not that simple, coding is extremely complex as that was tied to an area, not an action This wouldn't just be copy + paste. This would need an entire code of it's own

@UncontainablePickle-_420

Ай бұрын

@@cornpop838 for your own sake I wish you were as smart as you think you are. But unfortunately you've disappointed both of us

The only reason the ds deactivating killer power won't work is if they coded the blight serum effect to work only in that limited and unique event where you have the add on. Which is bad practice on their part since your goal should be to make a feature as reusable as possible. However the entire add on system is part of that old system build in the early days of the game and the devs admitted that thoes system are poorly implemented. That also applies to the peark system. So in a worse case scenario they would need to overhull multiple systems they have in order to make this change. Now i would like to think that they were not complete beginners when made this early systems but it could be if the devs never expected the game to grow and live for as much as it did.

I'd be curious to see their outlook on the "gens remaining = how long the stun is" idea because I feel like that would be an almost perfect alternative to this. It's just a shame it might not see the light of day because they've already committed to the 5 second stun. Someone please ask about this in a future AMA

the Void realm in the Halloween event also disabled all killer powers. So why would it be a problem now?

Scott I am curious to hear your thoughts on how disabling killer powers on decisive strike would work for 110 speed killers, as they would be punished far more than any 115 killer.

They had the blighted add-on that replaces the killer's power years ago. How is disabling the power different? If anything they can replace it with nothing for X amount of time like the blighted serum.

@dracophoenixttv

Ай бұрын

Blight serum gave a speed boost and was a one use it fundamentally helped in some cases. Disabling a power makes the whole game change stops a lot of things killers can do or to even relieve some pressure getting to a faraway gen reloading etc. Imagine disabling survivors movement for them doing their objective too fast it be the same.

It’s literally the matter of making a simple button mapping that excludes the power button and force switch the mappings at the start and end of decisive. It’s no different than player buttons changing based on what the player has equipped in other games.

tbf theyve said in the past that tunneling, camping, and slugging are valid play styles. as far as i know, that hasnt changed; theyve added things like base kit BT and anti-camp, but at best they are meant to deter, not get rid of those ways of playing. theyve also tried to shy away from perks affecting killer powers, which is why adrenaline no longer wakes you up vs freddy (as of the PTB). their reasoning here is garbage, but the action of not having DS affect killer powers is in line with what theyve done before.

Blighted serum is an active power unto itself that temporarily overrides normal powers. Void realm is a secondary game state with special rules that also override normal power usage. While they demonstrate that turning powers off can be done it usually is by the player's active choice. Doing the same with an opposing perk is a much more nuanced coding task.

@jakedickson2311

Ай бұрын

There’s also the fact that not all aspects of a killers power should be turned off. Why should DS interact with trapper placing traps, or oni absorbing blood ect.

I think what Behaviour should do, is add new FREE survivor perks that can help against tunneling. Ever since the Demogorgon chapter came back, we lost a bunch of free perks, and they never replaced them, so I think giving us new ones in return would be really nice. Giving us new, free, easy to access tools that help against tunneling would be really nice imo, and people wouldn't have to buy a whole survivor/chapter just to get Decisive Strike.

Yeah, super difficult to put the killers power on cooldown for a few seconds. Practically impossible.

Imagine if it actually activated twice like off the record, that could hard punish tunneling

DS is fine right now, I usually see at least one in every match, and nightlight stats confirm this. Survivors have enough options for countering tunneling right now. 90 second off the record, base kit bt, exhaustion perks to get away, for the people + buckle up, background player + flashbang, or just going for a bodyblock. At what point does it just become a skill issue on the survivor's part? Buffing DS will just move the game towards a less interactive meta again, where survivors stack second chances with little to no counterplay and just delay the game that way instead of actually doing well in chase. People want the game to practically play itself from start to finish, it's ridiculous.

In my opinion the easiest and most optimal solution for dissuading tunneling one survivor out would be for remaining survivors to gain small boosts based on how dire the situation is i.e.: 4 survivors left = base move speed + base objective work speed 3 survivors left = +1.5% haste AND/OR +1.5% work speed 2 survivors left = +1.5% haste AND/OR +1.5% work speed (kept the same to lessen overall unnecessary impact) 1 survivor left = +2% haste AND/OR +2% work speed The survivors remaining would get a small but slightly noticeable "clutch factor" boost that would: #1 decrease people dc'ing from games when games are in harder scenarios #2 incentivize overall map pressure and decentivize tunneling entirely #3 if an experienced killer matches against newer survivors, lessen the gap between how dominant and 1-sided the game would be To make it more complicated but to improve the initial idea, finding a boost value for "3 survivors 5 gens" VS "3 survivors 2 gens" etc would be optimal. Boosts could become more/less effective based on generators left on the map, so if you had 2 survivors left with 2 gens left, you would not get the full boost, to keep killers able to still finish out games that they should win. The closer the killer gets to dominating, survivors will get slightly stronger, but when the lead diminishes, boosts would dissipate.

@tea88450

Ай бұрын

not sure how numbers should look, but speed changes should be slightly noticeable, just not always significantly impactful (good killers should still beat bad survivors)

I kinda agree with them on this one honestly. I think perks just shouldn't interact with powers in general. Potentially limiting future killer designs because they have to consider how it interacts with one perk is a big kicker to me. I also think there is legitimate reason to think it is in fact more complicated than the community is making it out to be.

@authenticallyopal351

Ай бұрын

they basically already have done it in reverse, limiting perks and changing things based on how it would interact with certain bullshit killer powers, like starstruck on nurse

@jenericjoe7565

Ай бұрын

If you keep watching scott addresses this precise misconception. The blighted serum event already implemented this feature "replace killer power temporarily with a blight rush forward, the killer's active power is disabled." So the argument is, if they have already implemented this feature in the past why are they trying to now say it is too nuanced to make it a part of the game? If this is believed, then the limit on future and present killer designs/reworks is completely redundant. BUT there is also the possibility that for the halloween event they actually DID do a set of varying changes to each and every individual killer and their powers. However, I find this very, very hard to believe considering the blanket cannot use doc shock or blast, but trapper/hag still have enabled preplaced effects

@dakota9821

Ай бұрын

" they have to consider how it interacts with one perk" Power disabled for X seconds isn't much to consider you brainlet.

@dakota9821

Ай бұрын

Another clown that didn't watch the video. Stop bootlicking.@@ShamerGamerJM

@frb5237

Ай бұрын

@@authenticallyopal351 Sorta, but special attacks and basic attacks are a core mechanic of the game already. It'd be like saying terror radius perks interact with killer powers in the terror radius, but terror radius is a core mechanic. But I think you are onto the core of the issue, which is that the problem isn't killers being able to use their power, the problem is Blight and Nurse.

I think it could be interesting to add an exhausted-type debuff for killers, preventing them from using their powers. I know if we give survivors too much power they'll just start using them offensively, but it would be interesting to try.

hey not correlated to the video at all but i just went against a backpack slinger that i believe has developed a way to communicate with the backpacked survivor, by turning 360 degrees continuously and having the backpacked survivor grunt when facing the desired direction(most likely towards teammates) , not sure if this is a common knowledge backpacking technique so i figured id share as its the first time I've seen a backpacker do this, and it has potential to refine the backpack playstyle. lol

Any software developer worth their salt will tell you that disabling killer power should not complicated in the slightest to code, but we've had small insights into behaviour's code quality before (such as when match making wasn't working for hillbilly because they were comparing literal strings with his name and somebody had spelt it wrong) so I'm not surprised they're claiming this would be too difficult

I dont think disabling their power would be enough when they'll just counter something like that by running pwyf and any other perk that will give haste to makeup for a disabled power cooldown. My proposal of a idea is that if a killer hits a survivor that has been unhooked for x amount of time is given a movement speed debuff similar to chemical trap for x amount of time. Maybe not as severe as chemical trap debuff is but no more than a 50% movement speed debuff

I think the issue is the dev response was worded somewhat poorly. If I had to guess disabling killer powers (in terms of code) would require sweeping changes and a massive amount of time and resources to implement what would essentially be a new status effect for 1 perk. A potentially better solution (as mentioned throughout this comment section) would be targeted nerfs to movement power based killers. From what I've read and seen it looks like they aren't being punished for stuns. So they could (in theory) change what the stun status does to those killers. Something like if they get ds'd their power gets put on complete cooldown/lose all their tokens. Getting pallet stunned would remove like lets say half of their power/tokens. There would be edge cases like Oni, which would be more complex based on how his power works, but I think this would be a potentially "easier to implement" solution.

“Bhvr level” Those words scare me

It’s difficult if your code breaks like a twig after every update. I bet the line of coding needed is just something along the lines of When DS used=Killer stunned for 4 seconds. When stun end=Killers power go on cool down for 8 seconds When stub end=Unable to teleport for 8 seconds That just translated to coding language which is just more detailed and specific than what I wrote

Hey Scott, just want to say you look healthy. Hope all those surgeries are improving your quality of life and such.

Scott killers cannot move away from tunneling as all other means of play has been removed. Gens move at insane rates, all other strategies require set up. The other alternative play styles are effectively removed. This ds buff is a bandaid on a gaping wound.

What mic you use Scott? Some Shur?

Listen I know coding is complicated and temperamental but like if DS ignore [killer ability button input] ?

I just want agressive use of DS adressed man, that's all I want

I was hopeful that they would buff the duration of DS, bring it to 80s to make it in line with off the record, considering it can only be used once in a match whereas OTR can be used twice and its longer.

They should give survivor a basekit endurance-like effect after the killer is stunned and drops the survivor where it prevents them from going down to special attacks for a few seconds.

One day can you start a video wearing a lumpy green costume and say "Hey guys, Snott here"

i feel like people are too focused on punishing killers who tunnel rather than incentivizing them NOT to. The reason some people tunnel isn't to be toxic, but during matches it may be the only play to gain leverage/pressure against good survivors. We shouldn't be punishing that playstyle, we should be incentivizing to go for other people, maybe a reward (some kind of base kit Pain Res for every fresh hook) or something. With the state of the game, there are scenarios where tunneling is a MUST and it shouldn't be indicative of "skill" when the killer is in a win/lose scenario like that

@spooky8491

Ай бұрын

Thank you, this is what i've been saying for ages. People 8/10 times tunnel out of utility, just make actively avoiding tunneling have some other form of utility to be comparable.

@PanmasterAtArms

Ай бұрын

Tunneling is the best tactic in the game. It needs to be punished somehow. No amount of incentive will stop a killer from tunneling if that tactic helps them win, outside of them deciding to play suboptimally.

@muysli.y1855

Ай бұрын

trust me even with reward system there will be many who tunnel i mean i saw ppl with pain res (which only work if you not tunnel) hard tunnel at 5 gen

@siredtom69

Ай бұрын

@@PanmasterAtArmsno. If us killers can get punished for that, then survivors can get punished for gen rushing.

@TheGamingManiac

Ай бұрын

​@@muysli.y1855i mean ofcourse, no matter what you do there will always be players who do every play style you can think of in this game. Implementing X amount of punishments for a tunnel is the wrong move simply because of necessity and the way the game is mechanically played. There is already basekit BT and perks like OTR and DS (now 5 seconds) that are HUGE in the meta rn, adding more would make for a game thats wildy imbalanced. Sometimes tunneling is necessary, sometimes its not. Either way, incentivizing killers to keep chasing and downing a different survivor is the better option. Maybe its basekit (but weaker) Pain Res, maybe the more you chase different people the more BP you earn is multiplied. My point is we should think of ways to convince more killers hooking different survivors is more beneficial to them (maybe MMR is the first step, as right now it priorities Kills over Hooks)

im pretty sure at some point waaaaay back they said they wouldnt do anything to completely remove tunnelling but idk if they even said that so yeeeee 🤷

now that tunneling happens more often, perks like DS are needed more in pubs for many people(which means buffing it will help the company get more money since more people will buy Laurie), since u cant expect random people to body block for ya and try to save u all the time, i think the best thing to do now is to change off the record a bit, reduce the time when u can be hit to 25-30 sec after the unhook, this will still be good anti tunnel perk yet it wont be as abusable, arguably u can even give it 20sec only but remove the mending state.

@Sprachitektur

Ай бұрын

removing the mending state would be goated with dead hard and or styptic tho and would make it stronger than 80 sec imo

@dminusflamingo7168

Ай бұрын

@@Sprachitektur making items useful u mean, syptic can be waited 5 sec btw, and if somebody use it in front of a pallet u can just grab or wait dh. ye there would be situations where u can use syptic, but like i said this means that u will also have ur syptic 1 times use and for that sacrifice u would have instead of 80sec off the record, u will have it for 20sec which is like nothing. combined with dh true it can be better, but u can wait dh as well dont forget.

I feel like if they made DS disable killer powers, they could just make it obvious by implementing the Incapacitated effect for killers, removing their power that way. If they did that, they could even make future perks interact with this effect in the future. I really don't like how they're trying to make it sound more complicated than it is

I wonder if they have a perk in the works that stuns the killers power and this is their way of saying that.

Idk disabling killer powers would feel really bad, especially with base bt being sued offensively

I think the question of "Should it disable the killer power from DS?" really comes down to a justification issue more than anything. We already have numerous ways to rescue a survivor from being carried, be it pallet, flashlight or the occasional Head On value. Should these situations equally affect the killer this way? You're essentially getting the same value in each situation. If the argument is you dont get enough value for the perk, but these other situations are still viable, then I don't understand why the extra mile for one perk specifically. If anything, I'd argue that the perk should just be a basekit ability survivors have, and then DS should just be akin to what Borrowed time eventually became and buff the stun effect or something. This would also solve the feels bad element of the perk being behind a paywall.

@seakhajiit

Ай бұрын

The thing with stuns and flashlight saves is that there is another survivor there to take hits, body block, and leave scratch marks (unless you're using power struggle, but even then that means you almost always have a pallet)

I'd like to point out about Trapper that, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you immune to traps for a brief moment after getting off of the Killer's shoulder as it is? Also, most Killers can't M2 when blinded. So... that'd be pretty easy to apply to DS.

"doing things is hard :(" -smol bean multimillion dollar company

Idea for base game mechanic: Hooking the same survivor twice in a row grants all gens x% progress; 2x the amount if the survivor is hooked a third time without other hooks in between

I always only ever hear “Peanis”💀

People might be surprised to learn that tunneling was a big issue when DS was 5-sec and would stay active while working on a gen. Shouldn't have lowered it to 3-sec, disabling it with Conspicuous Actions was enough

What if made a game mode where it took 3 hits to go down but once you get hooked, you are gone

Let there be base kit debuffs for hooking the same survivor back to back and buffs for hooking a different one each time. This makes perfect sense from a lore perspective since the entity wants to give hope only to take it away.

Haunted By Daylight also disabled the killers power in the void.

Could they just move the incapacitated effect to killer to disable their power? I feel like that will be better or work even more simple.

there will most likely never be a fix to tunneling because the players that play that way are too stubborn to ever try anything else

@slavajuri

Ай бұрын

The issue isn't that people want to play that way, it's that they're rewarded for doing so.

@Thatitchyguy

Ай бұрын

@@slavajuri I suppose but they're still rewarded less than if they just... spread pressure.

@nicane-9966

Ай бұрын

sometimes is the play, when you need to get rid of survivors cause you cant keep up, it happens with weaker killers against eficcient survivors, doesnt happen that often but when it happens you need to get rid of people because if not then instead of having 2 survivors tbagging at gates you get 4 tbagging at gates...

@JediTiga

Ай бұрын

No way you actually think people enjoy tunneling... It's boring as hell. It's the best way to win. We're playing a competitive video game, people want to win.

@Thatitchyguy

Ай бұрын

@@JediTiga you don't "have" to win. Also, what is a win in dbd?

Honestly I think the problem isn't technical, it's balancing. "That's bullshit, if Nurse can't blink then Trapper shouldn't have his traps" or "the strangler shouldn't have access to his bees"

I just think Nurse should lose all her power tokens when stunned, full stop, whether it's a pallet or DS. At least that way you would have some much needed counterplay against her. Sure killers like Blight or Spirit would still be a problem, but Blight might fall slightly out of favor if they're actually removing hugtech next patch, and ever since they removed the "standing still mindgame" you see Spirit like once in 200 games. This response really just felt like massive whataboutism to me, like OBVIOUSLY nobody is talking about disabling Chain Hunts or disarming Bear Traps, oh well.

@asideofsalt.6645

Ай бұрын

Fuck off with that salty survivor

Very valid and well put response.

Tunnel enjoyer here. I welcome the DS buff, if 2 seconds costs you the game it was probably a good game. On the survivor side I mainly just use ds as a deep wound reset to get access to dh again.

I don't know how in depth this could be, but what about the killer getting a certain debuff after hooking a survivor consecutively. Like a hindered status effect or something minor to give the tunneled survivor a chance.

@xykane

Ай бұрын

why wouldn't that survivor just harass the killer so that they take hooks and the killer is debuffed all chase? that's quite literally punishing the killer for doing their objective

@SnaxMang

Ай бұрын

So the killer gets fucked for a bad survivor being in the lobby?

@bubblegod8889

Ай бұрын

@xykane like I said, I don't know how in-depth that would be. I don't play killer all that much, and when I do, I don't tunnel. But I play a lot of survivors. I'm just brainstorming. If a survivor is being tunneled and being a jerk about it to give a killer a debuff, it still puts them at risk of being downed and hooked and forced out of the game. But if the killer still has a debuff, then it means he's still going after the survivor. This means he's choosing not to drop chase and go pressure gens or try to kill another survivor. I'm just brainstorming, and I don't know how exactly the debuff would work, but to me at least, it seems something like this would work.

What about if the survivors have 12 total hookstages. 2 individual stage per survivor (instead of 3) and 4 Team stages or whatever you wanna call them. So the first 4 hooks always remove the "Team stages". So if you wanna Hardcore Tunnel you need 6 hooks on the first survivor. But it would also not open the scenario that one leon uses all 9 hookstages and the Rest of the Team dies on their first hook.

Knowing BVHR, if I get ds'd and they want to disable my killers power for 8 seconds it probably wont work until A) the match is over B) I restart the game or C) I go buy some auric cells in the shop or so lol

Current borrowed time should be base kit and the current perk can get a total rework I think 20 seconds of endurance off the hook would solve a lot of it

I don't see why the power button can't just be disabled for the duration of the stun I'm a coder. I've linked keyboard/mouse controls to my functions and classes. And I can't think of a single killer where disabling right click for 5 seconds would be a problem.

I'm sure they could code something and build something to block a killers power from activating, but I don't think they could upkeep every patch with everything else that breaks . I think if they did that, the liklihood of a different killer needing to be killswitched every patch goes up Sure they've done it with Blighted Serum and Haunted By Daylight, but that's one month of something can go wrong, then it goes away. That's not something they need to actively upkeep

Yeah thats a cop out excuse. In regards to negative reinforcement, what do you think about the idea of disabling perks like Pain Resonance, Grim Embrace, etc. once a survivor is killed? These perks are powerful and supposed to discourage tunneling, and having them stop working if one survivor is tunneled out keeps them as strong as they were and actually encourages the killer to seek other targets out.

The complication does introduce things though. One, this can break powers permanently. This has a very high likelihood of introducing a bug that breaks or disables a power permanently and there's no argument about the headache that will cause and the frequent worry this can ruin the game. Is it feasible? sure. will it likely be a nightmare? yes. very much yes. On an entirely new engine i could see it but its too late for that now.