Just came here from Rabea's video about gain staging into Neural DSP plugins. I don't understand why this video is saying that we should maximise Di signals without clipping, meanwhile Rabea says his method has always been to keep interface gain at 0, as to get the most accurate representation of the amplifier. I'm sure everyone would appreciate an updated video from John from Neural in order to settle the confusion. It needs to be said by a worthy source. The Internet is going crazy over finding the correct solution and we need our minds put to rest. Thank you

@michael1

Ай бұрын

It's kind of moot. If you plug 2 different guitars into the interface with the gain on zero you're still going to get a different level into the front of a real world amp or a plugin, i.e if Rabea has created some presets for a neural dsp plugin you don't know whether they will sound the same or how he experienced them (and in fact they most likely will not) unless you use the same guitar. But, if you go in too hot - and setting this 'max gain before it clips' thing is likely to do that - then you'd probably find all of the presets (even ones that are named 'clean' will sound distorted and gainy and you'll probably find it difficult to get a clean tone out of the plugin. Similarly, if you dialed down the input on the plugin you'd barely get any gain even with everything on the amp set to 11. Of course people hope that plugging into a Amp model of, say, a 'plexi' is going to be the same as if they plugged into the real amp - and they hope that setting, say, volume on the real amp and the amp model at 4, bass / middle / treble / presence etc at certain values will get them the exact same tone switching between the two. Well to achieve that then you would need to match this input level correctly. For that, ignore everything in this video and use Rabea et al videos that are saying to put gain on zero and to set the input level based on your interfaces dbu spec. To some extent that is what this idea behind knowing your interfaces max input dbu value is at zero gain and using that to set the 'input level' on a plugin is about. With neural plugins it's kind of moot because they don't sound like real amps anyway, but with the free plugins that are more accurate like NAM maybe it's starting to be a realistic proposal. You can realistically copy amp settings and get the same tone. If you use tonocracy then they've matched the input level so you don't have to worry about what input level the guy who created the tonesnap was expecting. If your interface is 12.2dbu and you set that on the input level you're done. Excepting, as a I say, a guitar with active pickups is going to sound different on a preset than a strat - so you might still need to create your own presets with the tone you want. Bottom line though - use your ears - you can set the input and amp settings so you like the tone. If a preset sounded too gainy you could turn down the gain or input level. The idea you have to set it to some mathematically "correct" setting makes no real sense. If you plug in a different guitar you'll likely have to change something to get the same or similar tone or level of gain anyway because guitar pickups vary. At which point you'll either have more than 1 preset for different guitars, or maybe you change the input level. Or maybe you use the volume control on the guitar. You also need to know the dbu that the plugin author was expecting. i.e it doesn't really matter as much as this hoohar is suggesting because the sound coming out of the amp or plugin is subjective and down to taste - set all of the dials how you want to get the sound you want. There's no correct settings for anything. But it's worth noting the advice in this neural dsp video was very poor and likely led to a lot of people overdriving all of their plugins - so it would have been more difficult to dial in a good tone (especially cleaner tones) using the amp settings - i.e this advice from neural dsp was making their own plugins sound crap - a bit silly given that they only give people a few days to make a decision. Not exactly marketing geniuses the Finnish eh? Whatever, use Tonocracy because Neural's stuff is overpriced anyway. Amp modelling has been commoditized now, it's a solved problem - it's not worth £100+ per plugin. In fact this video is bad advice from a playing perspective. The notion you'd need to thump away at the strings to set the level because you're going to thump away at the strings when you're playing makes no sense. Although I guess there's still no "correct" but if you consider someone like Tim Pierce who has been a session musician for decades and played on countless recordings and listen to how he sets up his tone and how he plays to get the best tone, it's the polar opposite of thumping the strings. He has a setup that if he thumped the strings would sound bad, his clean tones are not crystal clean, his volume is high - he plays lightly to control that sound. That where the best tone for guitar is found. Crank it up but play lighty, don't thump away at the strings as hard as you can.

@secretstorymusic

Ай бұрын

I agree. Neural DSP first needs to make sure ALL their plugins are optimized for the same gain staging [0dbfs at input] and then make an official statement through all of their communication outlets [website, email, new youtube demo]. Whether they were wring and making a correction or just evolved, this needs to be cleared up. My understanding is that all guitar plugins have or are moving to a 0dbfs input model. I've been running at around +18dbfs so it's going to be some work to go back through all my tones and recalibrate, but I understand this is the best approach given plugin optimization, dynamic range etc. Please Neural, just provide some updated intel! Your community will respect you 100% for it. Knowledge is power.

Thanks again Steve! I appreciate the videos coming after the LIVE Q&A, keeps everything fresh and motivation is up.

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

Any time, Zach! I'm glad I can help! 🤘😁🤘

I love the fact that the videos cover a specific topic and keep it brief rather than a very long one. Would love to see more and learn. Thanks Steven!

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I'm glad I can help and I definitely plan on continuing this series! 😁

dude that sounds beastly

short, sweet, to the point, and useful. Thanks, Steven, for another great video!

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Aaron! I'm glad you like the brevity of the video. I always get frustrated when videos meander waaaay too much on a subject so I try to keep things straight forward. 😂😂

This was really neat, super to the point and informative. I love tutorials but have to admit sometimes when I see a video that's 30 minutes long on one topic I just can't :( If you turned this into a series of some sort I'd watch for sure!

Great video, keep them coming!

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Karol! 🤘

Congrats for your channel!!In best five channels for me. A question, when I use before Parallax a gain staging plugin (hornet vu meter mk4) I get a little different sound, a week sound I could tell. This is not happening when I use the gain staging plugin before overloud th-u for example!!!Can check it and say why os this happening?also when I increase the input volume I fell like its not the same, its weeker the sound compares with not a gain staging plugin!!

Hello! Good video! Don't suppose you could answer this question for me please? Is there a difference between using pre-gain on Cubase or using the input gain of the amp, or do they essentially both do the same job (control the amount of signal before entering other stages)?

I saw that you adjusted the output to compensate for high input and so on, with your output turned down what level do you hit then with your peak? -12 db or another level?

Wait the neural dsp plugins expect a -0db signal coming into the plugin rather than the -20db range from the guitar plugging in directly into a high impedance interface input?

with the "guitar - DI - Scarlet" configuration do you put the scarlet imput mode on Line or Instrument ?

@Snavels

3 жыл бұрын

I believe line since the DI box turns the intense signal into something way more manageable, so I don't think it'll need to be in inst mode

Great video! Is it really better to use a separate DI box instead of going straight into the instrument input on the Scarlett?

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

It does get a cleaner signal to your interface and allows for later re amping. Is it 100% necessary for every situation? No. I've personally recorded many songs without using a DI box and it's been fine, but those tracks weren't going to be publicly released or at least they would be released on a smaller scale. However, when I started working for Neural DSP I knew I had to make the best product possible because i'm now representing Neural DSP as a brand in every video. So investing in the right equipment for my situation was an absolute must. At the end of the day, it's a matter of asking whether the return on Investment is going to be high enough to warrant purchasing a DI box. Hopefully that explanation helps! 😁

Do you have to have a DI? Or can you just run a cable from a guitar into a Scarlett solo and have good results?

So to record using neural dps I can't use my direct interface? I mean recording a clean guitar then putting neural as effect like any other plugin, vst? Help :( im new on this..

Will the tone be that much different without a di box? (Just straight Into the inst input of the audio interface)

Hello could you explain to me what is really the goal of the DI before the interface? Thank you

Hey, why are you editing only one amp if you have a double-tracked guitar? Are they connected somehow?

I have a question, I'm using the cory wong archetype, when going out of my DI box and into my interface preamps I usually adjust the gain to hover around - 12dbfs with peaks a bit higher than that. Is that a good gain level to get into the neural dsp plugins? And I didn't understand how do you use the output level on the plugin itself, what's the ideal output range, still somewhere between - 18dbfs and - 12 as is it done for gain staging in other type of instruments?

@d77sauce

2 жыл бұрын

I think for both as long as you’re not clipping

Hello!! Do I still need a DI box if I’m plugging into an Apollo twin x??

I'm sure you've noticed recent debate about 0 gain on interface thing. Any video update, Neural?

Do you do panning in the plugin? Or in the daw? So my question is , i see two mics in the plugin, and when i pan hard left and a other track pan hard right i get the idee that i hear only one mic from the cab plugin? I’m doing something wrong? Or do i don’t need to hard pan in my daw? Thx

@MATCHLESS93

3 жыл бұрын

Hey did you figure this out? Was fucking around today and noticed this.

what are the benefits using a DI box before the interface? does it really make a difference than connect the instrument direct into the interface?

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

I'll do a video on DI boxes in the near future but to answer your question, it get's the cleanest signal from your guitar to the interface by converting the unbalanced instrument signal to balanced mic level, and then running the signal through a mic cable which is less susceptible to noise interference. It also allows you the option for re amping later on.

@danimourinho

4 жыл бұрын

thanks! looking forward to watch it! keep the good job!!

@Mustis1524

4 жыл бұрын

@@danimourinho I'd recommend taking a look at the video SpectreSoundStudios made on that topic.

@jorge0358

4 жыл бұрын

Steven Ward would a DI box be necessary for an Audio interface like a UAD Apollo?

I've read some of the comments, so I'll try to clarify some things for anyone that has the same questions. There are a couple of issues when recording direct to your interface: 1 - Your interface may not have Hi-Z (Instrument) inputs - you need a DI Box to convert the high impedance (Hi-Z) signal coming from your guitar to a low impedance signal before it reaches your interface's input. Not doing so will incur on significant high-frequency loss due to the impedance mismatch between your guitar and the interface's input. 2 - Why do I need a DI Box if my interface has a Hi-Z input? There are two scenarios: 2.a - Your interface may not have an input impedance high enough to be suited for instruments even on Hi-Z mode. This is true to some older low-end interfaces. This is solved by using a DI Box, otherwise, the same issue described on 1 will occur. 2.b - Your interface may have lower headroom preamps, which is accentuated by enabling Hi-Z mode - this is very common on many interfaces even today, and occurs when your signal is clipping even with the gain turned all the way down. This can be solved by using a DI Box and disabling the Hi-Z input on your interface. Many DI Boxes even have a pad, which reduces the signal volume to further prevent that if necessary. I hope that clarifies some of your questions.

@iLLuzion1st

3 жыл бұрын

so im experiences 2.b with a Scarlett 2i2, should i get a DI box and use the INST button? If i just use the direct LINE without the INST button enabled I dont clip but the signal sounds a lil weak

@danteyoutu

2 жыл бұрын

Why did the person in this video use a DI box though?

@d77sauce

2 жыл бұрын

@@danteyoutu good question

@d77sauce

2 жыл бұрын

@@iLLuzion1st if you use the DI box then switch to Line level

Can anybody out there tell me if (or why)that DI BOX is necessary? 1. As opposed to straight in to interface 2 although I do not do that... even if just bypassing for plugins on PC, i run through my effects/amp modelrr pedal, which = preamp

hi ive got the gain down at 0 on my focusrite 2i4 (gen1), padding button is on, i am not necssarily clipping as seen on the focusrite halo ring but in daw comes to orange and near red sometimes, my average db in my DAW is showing as around -4, is there anything i can do to try lower this a bit? its the normal ibanez v7 bridge pickup so not super hot or anything.

@greghillmusic

2 ай бұрын

I think ya just need to turn the plugin's output down. I just did a test with my interface how I used to have it and then now at 0. So much bad distortion the way I used to do it (although somehow it never translated to my mixes), I will still leave the interface gain all the way down now. Just set up the plugin how ya need and adjust the output on the amp sim.

Shouldnt it be -18db gain staged before hitting the plugin? Not close to red

Can some explain pre amping and reamping. I use a pod farm UX2 to fortin nameless and that’s it. Am I missing anything here

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

Preamps amplify signals. Audio interfaces have preamps built in. Reamping is the act of sending a guitars direct-in signal to another amp than the original. DI boxes are explained below but you don't necessarily need one for your use case. Just a heads up: Guitars produce high-impedance (Hi-Z) signals. Some interfaces want low-impedance (Low-Z) signals. A DI box converts Hi-Z signals to Low-Z. Without this conversion, your signal will have noise/distortion, which can also cause clipping. The POD farm UX2 already has a Hi-Z input, so a DI box isn't necessary unless you want to reamp your guitar to a real amplifier.

Is this one instance of the plugin being applied to two different tracks/takes? How are you doing that?

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

Yep, I have a left and right guitar and I've linked the two tracks together so I only have to adjust one instance of the NTS for both tracks to be affected. If you're in Pro Tools it's called grouping tracks. Control(command for mac)+G, un-check "follow globals', click mix/edit, click the Attributes tab, check the boxes of which inserts you want to link the controls and bypass to. You'll still have to instantiate NTS on both tracks but they should be linked afterwards. Saves a lot of time in the long run and keeps things simple.

@Unexplained_Bacon

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheRealStevenWard Gotcha, thanks for the reply👍

@elmolewis9123

3 жыл бұрын

Great question - seems to be a big piece of the puzzle.

I read or saw somewhere that the sweet spot for input level on the raw signal is -12Db tops. Is this true? I don't have a DIBox and I plug my guitar straight into the 2i4 and the raw signal is around -12Dbs, even with gain set at zero on the interface and the Pad button activated. The interface shows no sign of clipping. Shoould I still look into keeping the signal around -12Db or should I just care about the clipping monitoring on the interface?

@TheRealStevenWard

4 жыл бұрын

There are a lot of different ideas and guidelines regarding that. I've heard the same about it being around -6db but at the end of the day, you don't want it too quiet and you don't want it too loud. Too quiet and the noise floor is audible. Too loud and it clips. BUT you get better results the louder it is so getting it as close to clipping but not, is usually the best case. Mine end up normally peaking around -6 anyway but not because i'm trying to aim for a number. Hopefully that helps! 😁😁

@fresquitotv

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheRealStevenWard It sure helps. A lot. It makes total sense. My guitar has SHH+ and SVV Suhr pickups and apparently they are super hot. Setting them to just not clip will make them peak well over 0. I was thinking something was terribly wrong with my setup. I guess I'll have to tweak around and find the sweet spot. Thanks!

@NDEEZMiata

4 жыл бұрын

DI box will help a lot with just general sound quality on the Scarletts. It helped less on my Clarett but made a big difference on the Scarlett’s. Especially for bass guitar. But to answer your question...it really depends on the plug in. Some benefit from being pushed hard (like Neural) whereas Helix Native specifically mentions to keep levels averaging around -18db. Generally for most plug ins -18 to -12db is the sweet spot. Use the level meter on the plug in if it has one or see what your levels are coming into your DAW with no plug in active. The meters on the interface itself are nice, but there not always the most accurate. DI boxes help with hot pickups too, you tend to have more headroom to properly adjust levels

@fresquitotv

4 жыл бұрын

@@NDEEZMiata Thanks a lot for the in depth reply. If I may ask something else: Having very hot (yet, passive) pickups, should I still get an active DI Box or should I go passive?

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@NDEEZMiata Reason for this is old Scarletts have low-impedance inputs. Claretts have impedance switching to support high-impedance (Hi-Z) guitar signals. Impedance mismatches cause noise/distortion. 3rd gen Scarlett's have cleaner Hi-Z inputs though, and I still love my 2nd gen 2i2.

How do you record your guitar with video for KZread?

@behindthen0thing

3 жыл бұрын

yes

why the DI box when the interface already has a instrument input?

@zhifeihuan8259

3 жыл бұрын

Same question

@danielrubiano5354

3 жыл бұрын

See my answer below, it may help.

Guys i came up with a problem which is when i plug my guitar to my di box and right into my interface i get a fizzy noise when i play palm mute i do use noise gate what should i do?

@butcher_0392

4 жыл бұрын

Which interface and DI do you have? Also what guitar and pickups do you use? Because all these variables affect the quality of the final DI a lot. If you use passive pickups it is a must to shield the guitar cavities with copper tape, to avoid all those annoying noises.

I had been using a 2i2 Scarlett for 8 months but now I have an Apollo Twin X I plug my guitar in and get the Hi-Z channel automatically - and like so many Guitar players I lose any headroom I might need Since my Input Gain is absolutely at minimum, the only option I can see is getting a DI Box - which I have never ever used before To be able to even begin Gain Staging properly - cause this thing clips every damn time unless it's for a really quiet part. And if I start double tracking... forget about it. So I might try the DMG free Plug-in first - but I'm wondering about the use of DIs - seems every Neural DSP user has them......?

@greghillmusic

2 ай бұрын

How ya making out now?

@magusking9215

2 ай бұрын

@@greghillmusic Great. I put the Input gain at zero and lowered the Output volume rather than the amp gain in most cases ( for heavy rhythm ). Also I have played for four years with a headphone mini Jack cord from the headphone output of the Apollo into the Aux In if a Valvetronix VOX amp ( ! ). Don’t laugh , I know it’s kinda stupid. ( And only in Mono ). And I only bought Yamaha studio monitors like a a week ago. Now playing through a home HiFi setup can be more than enough for people who don’t have money to buy decent speakers. Since it’ll sound like a nearly finished product. I’ve been fine for 4 years. Just hearing shit in Mono. Haven’t tried the DMG plug-in yet…

I have a line 6 helix. Is there any reason why I would need to buy an interface instead of using the helix as one?

@butcher_0392

4 жыл бұрын

Line 6 has one of the best preamp for tracking guitar DI. Surprisingly my pod x3 live gave me the best quality on DIs, which interfaces like roland quad capture, focusrite Scarlett 2i4, steinberg ETC. At the end I ended up selling the interfaces and I still have the Pod, some crystal clear DIs with a low end tigh, mids present and smooth highs.

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@butcher_0392 I've heard that about the old POD XT pro too. John Browne of Monuments in a 2020 video said it still produces the best cleans out of anything he owns.

@butcher_0392

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamphillips2918 Exact Bro What happens is that guitarists are often the most idiotic customers out there, they sell them smoke and they buy it. We don't need Kemper, Axe FX III, or Helix to sound good. but ask Joey Sturgis one of the greatest metal producers of all time and the use of Pod XT and pod farm for his most legendary productions. It is not the tools we have or how much they cost, but the skills and knowledge of production and mixing that make the difference between a shitty tone and a professional one.

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@butcher_0392 Agreed. The age old saying in audio. If it sounds good, it is good.

Hi, do I need a DI box to use the neutral dsp? Or what is it for? Can I use only the focusrite? Thanks

@ryanschindler923

4 жыл бұрын

Im kinda of confused by this myself, Im using the scarlet 2i2 with the dsp pluggin and everything works fine, i can re amp stuff and whatnot so Im not sure why you need a DI box before your interface. Maybe it just helps get an even more raw and clean signal? But as far as "only using a focusrite" its just whatever interface/ di box you wanna use, something to get a clean untouched signal to your pc so the pluggin can do its magic.

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@ryanschindler923 If you are only reamping between amp sims, you don't need a DI box for reamping. What you need a DI box for is to convert your guitars high-impedance signal to the low-impedance input of the interface to eliminate noise and distortion. I believe new Scarlett interfaces have high-impedance inputs though.

@ryanschindler923

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamphillips2918 haha yeah when I posted that I was just starting to get into recording and didn't know any better. And your totally right! Re amping into a actual powered head isn't the same as re amping using software and you need different stuff for that.

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@ryanschindler923 haha I figured you knew it now. I've been replying to questions from like a year ago just for anyone trying to figure out the same stuff now. Glad to have so many in this community!

This is the type of tutorial you should be doing. Not saving presets...

I have a UAD twin as my sound card, and I plug directly into that from my guitar. Should that not be done? Why should you go into a di box prior to the audio card?

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

If i'm not mistaken, the UAD twin has high-impedance (Hi-Z) inputs for guitar, so you should be getting a clean signal. Some interfaces have Low-Z inputs, so a DI box would convert your guitars Hi-Z input to Low-Z for the cleanest sound possible. Otherwise, you would get a DI box if you wanted to reamp your dry guitar signal to another amp.

@NONE2NONE

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamphillips2918 Thanks bud!

What's this with people all the sudden saying to turn your interface knob down all the way when recording?

CAN I RECORD ?USING MY SCARLET ONLY?

@JN-qj9gf

3 жыл бұрын

Depends. My guitar with high output passives clips the input on my scarlett 8i6 so I need a DI. Other instruments have been fine running straight in.

Why do you need a DI box? Why cant you just go straight into the interface?

The waves in my guitar tracks are so small. Why? (I'm using Reaper)

@hydraglyphics

2 жыл бұрын

if you haven't figured it out yet, hold shift and tap the up arrow key to increase the size of the soundwaves (down arrow will decrease them)

Ok but what's the difference between volume, master, and output? I understand how volume and master work on a real amp but why 3 knobs on a virtual one? Isn't output and master pretty much the same?

@NeuralDSP

Жыл бұрын

Not quite! Master volume effects the amps volume, so that will have the same effect as cranking the master volume on a real amp. If you don't want to tube saturation or like the effect increasing the volume to master, you would put your master volume to the desired volume and then increase the output volume if you need more volume. Input will cause your incoming signal to be louder so having too hot of an input signal it can be problematic for achieving good tones. Hopefully that makes sense. If you have further questions please email support@neuraldsp.com and we'll be happy to chat more!

Same question, why a DI before interface?

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

Guitars produce high-impedance (Hi-Z) signals. Entry level interfaces often want low-impedance (Low-Z) signals. A DI box converts Hi-Z signals to Low-Z. Without this conversion, your signal will have noise/distortion, which can also cause clipping. If your interface has a Hi-Z input, then a DI box is not necessary unless you want to reamp your guitar signal.

@arjundhannyify

3 жыл бұрын

So by entry level interface, you mean scarlet focusrite 2i2 2nd gen?? Im sorry im a beginner .. your response would be highly appreciated!!

@liamphillips2918

3 жыл бұрын

@@arjundhannyify Yes, and I sort of said something that is untrue. Not all entry level interfaces are like this. When you buy an interface, make sure that it has a Hi-Z input. The 3rd gen Scarlett range has this on both XLR inputs.

@arjundhannyify

3 жыл бұрын

@@liamphillips2918 thank s so much! appreciate it!

@ACHelliwell

2 жыл бұрын

@@liamphillips2918 I know this is a year later, but for 2 days I've been trying to figure all this out and what to buy and why and this comment is the answer I have been looking for explained perfectly. God bless you!

So you don’t play into an amp? You just play your riff without hearing it?

So its obviously the experts doing the video but it just doesn't make any sense to me. So maybe someone can explain: My guitars have very different output levels. If I do the gain staging on the interface like told in the video this is effectively introducing a clean boost in most cases. Real amps are voiced in a way that works with a certain input level. I would have expected that plugin manufacturers also work with some sort of reference level. Unfortunately this example (not saying it sounds bad, peace) is high gain but as soon as you go into low gain territory this way of doing it seems wrong. Of course the answer can be "just trust your ears" but this video is about rules ...

2:56 It doesn’t make any sense for me. The sound doesn’t sound any different to me??

@jxcn

3 жыл бұрын

0db is slightly more crunchy but also has noticeably more sustain compared to -6db

Awesome info and very informative video but, my dude. Seriously? EVERY note is edited on the recordings? Do we REALLY need to sound like robots?

with the "guitar - DI - Scarlet" configuration do you put the scarlet imput mode on Line or Instrument ?

@collindillard

4 жыл бұрын

Hey man! I had this same question, so I messaged radial support directly. They said to have the Scarlett on line due to the balanced signal coming from the DI. It has worked tremendously for me. I did not experience the treble loss that would normally come from going straight it to the scarlet on line mode. My settings Guitar->PRO48->Scarlet2i2-> logic.

@MrSaccharose

3 жыл бұрын

@@collindillard Is the DI box worth it ? I mean in difference of sound quality