Cain was already on the brink of a mental breakdown before the Cylons' unexpected attack on the colonies, having lost her sister and parents to them. She suffered the loss of 750 crew members while escaping the bombardment at Scorpia's Shipyard. Discovering her girlfriend was a Cylon agent was yet another blow. With the Colonial Fleet's headquarters in Pycon destroyed by Cylon nukes, her family, career, and entire world were decimated by the Cylons, pushing her towards becoming a nearly berserk admiral. However, this doesn't excuse her ruthless and inhumane actions. She turned into the very type of killing machine she vowed to eliminate-efficient, unforgiving, and driven by revenge. Her story serves as a cautionary tale about how, in the darkest times of war, individuals like her can rise to power and inflict more terror and destruction than the enemy, affecting everyone around them.

@MichaelJohnson-vi6eh

6 ай бұрын

As far as she knows, she's the only leader left in humanity. She would tend to think of herself as a God beyond question, beyond other people's rules.

@timmooney7528

6 ай бұрын

Main difference between Cain and Adama is Cain did not have a moral compass to confide in. Cain had fear on her side. Adama had respect. Even when he and Tigh would not get along, they earned each other's respect.

@PercyLeon1

6 ай бұрын

This is so true. Do you feel at the last episode she was learning to trust again? Especially with Adama and his crew.

@Snapper314

6 ай бұрын

CAIN was a Bad Commander who made Bad decisions, PERIOD. But... there are times when questioning or not following orders can get you or someone else killed (like when Saul Tigh ordered the atmosphere venting to put out a fire threatening the entire ship). Real People in combat usually don't have the information to fully understand BIG PICTURE. That is what Historians will have the Luxury of debating.

@Snapper314

6 ай бұрын

CAIN was a Bad Commander who made Bad decisions, PERIOD. But... there are times when questioning or not following orders can get you or someone else killed (like when Saul Tigh ordered the atmosphere venting to put out a fire threatening the entire ship in the Mini-series). Real People in combat usually don't have the information to fully understand BIG PICTURE. That is what Historians will have the Luxury of debating.

As an ancient who watch the original series as it aired, the classic "By your command" gets me EVERY time.

@VoidR

5 ай бұрын

SAME! Hearing that in the modern show really takes me back to a special time.

@jamesspringer-rj3iq

5 ай бұрын

And seeing the gold centurion was a thrill to me as well.

@tombeaty3621

5 ай бұрын

I was a kid when 78 BSG dropped and thought it was the best thing. :-) it was a simpler time! What I do like about the fan service in the reboot is that it always makes sense narratively to the new story. Like way back in Final Cut where they lift the 78 theme music and in the commentary it's explained that in reboot universe that music is the fanfare for the Caprica Bucks and thus people in the fleet would know it. Great world building.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

I really appreciate that respectful nod to the original series.

13:56 and 18:12 IN THE ORIGINAL SERIES, the "old" Cylon Raider you see here were the primary fighters. They were crewed by three "toaster" style Cylons. Also those Cylons look vaguely like Roman Centurions. The Raider ships themselves were not semi-organic sentient beings, just equipment. Also there were no "organic" robots. In the original movie, the organic Cylons were a reptilian species of which built robots to support their empire, but they themselves were dying out as a species. We only ever saw one.

@timmooney7528

6 ай бұрын

In the pilot episode of the original series (also shown in theaters as a stand alone movie) the Imperious Leader was a reptilian alien. The visual effects design of the mask looked horrible, and the network standards folk felt it's appearance would cause young kids to have nightmares. Later on in the series when the IL would appear, it's face was shrouded in shadows. As the series went on, we saw and heard less of the IL and more of Baltar as the lead villain. Patrick Macnee did the voice for the IL.

@darthroden

5 ай бұрын

As a child who watched the original series, seeing the old Cylon Raiders and Centurions was beautiful. Hit all the nostalgic feels.

@jeffburnham6611

5 ай бұрын

And Adama was one of the Lord's of Kobol. Baltar wasn't a scientist, but betrayed the Colonies and actively sought the destruction of Galactica and the Fleet, until he was executed by the Cylons. Both races were technically advanced, relying on ship-mounted energy weapons and not bullets. Cain was a legend, not some maniac...and he was a Viper pilot and Colonial Warrior. On many regards, the TV series was better.

@operative2136

5 ай бұрын

During the flashback scene to the first war, there's a musical hint of the original Battlestar Galactica theme as well.

@timmooney7528

5 ай бұрын

@@operative2136 The theme was also played during the museum dedication ceremony in the pilot episode as Lee flies by in his father's Viper.

Admiral Kane is not captain Picard, but he cared a lot about Ro Laren. 😁 I mean, when we talk about Michelle Forbes... I think that was the reason Ronald D. Moore brought her here was that role, because he was on TNG and later on DS9 team, which wanted her to be there (after she passed they invented major Kira).

The cool thing about the flashback sequence is they even recreated a couple of the stock footage shots of the ships fighting from the Original Series.

Gaius asked Gina if she was aware of being a Cylon when he was questioning her on the Pegasus. She was completely aware of being a Cylon.

@jerodast

5 ай бұрын

IIRC there was only 1 sleeper agent in the entire lore of the Cylons as presented on this series so far. (I'm not counting the 4 Final Fives we've seen so far because they more "awakened" rather than "triggering" like Boomer, and it doesn't even appear that the other Cylons are aware of them or that they're working for them.) So that whole concept of not being aware you're a Cylon was basically just for Grace Park to have a character arc in season 1, which they resurrected to connect the dots of the final five.

@meewec2091

5 ай бұрын

@@jerodast we know that the seven models know the five exist but mostly don't know who they are from a cavil/deanna conversation a while back. but the whole thing gets explained more later this season

Watching the other Battlestars get crushed at the shipyard is heartbreaking.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

Thats when Cain really earned my respect. She knows her ship is in no condition to fight. They've probably pulled all the ordnance, her systems were down, crew probably on leave, etc... She ordered that jump knowing that means she will abandoned the fight but also meant that she will be back . Live to fight another day. Helena Cain was not a woman who ever considered retreating from a fight but she had to save her ship in order to have any chance. Lost 700 men without firing a shot. Not something I would be happy to remember.

Cain is an A-grade arsehole, but she's honest about who and what she is. Outside of her ruthlessness, she's an excellent officer. Michelle Forbes is a sweetheart lady, but she NAILS Cain's demeanor.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

chilling performance, love every second of it

Stephanie Jacobsen is also excellent in the short-lived but IMO excellent Sarah Connor Chronicles. Again IMO, the best Terminator content outside of 1 & 2.

@TroyConvers5000

6 ай бұрын

A fantastic series, and yes she played a rotter!

@MrSinnerBOFH

5 ай бұрын

Absolutely! Sarah Connor Chronicles was excellent

@theaikidoka

5 ай бұрын

@@MrSinnerBOFHLena Headey is a great Sarah.

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

Agreed! - The ep where they make AI - haunts me to this day.

@erlaed

5 ай бұрын

This must be the 5th time I've seen Razor, and the 4th time I've totally forgotten that she's in it.

Just to add to your comments about the military: Showing how Pegasus handled the cylon attack and finding a civilian fleet of its own was meant to show the viewer how Galactica may have ended up if they hadnt found Roslin. She kept Adama grounded and instead of stripping the fleet apart for men and materials, Adama protected them.

When Cain's XO was talking to Tigh, he told the story of the other XO being shot for not obeying orders and played it off as a joke. Recall Tigh says later to Adama that he's not sure if it was actually a joke.

@sparrowlt

5 ай бұрын

Tight actually said he believed Fisk was telling the thruth and believed Cain had killed her own XO from the beginning.they never took it as a joke -"You were both drunk" -"No question... but he wasnt lying ..she shot her XO in front of the crew"

@UpcycleShoesKai

5 ай бұрын

Tigh is a professional drunk. He knows

> Hybrid: "Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse. The harbinger of death." .. well well well. Spanner thrown into the mental works.

If you like the actress playing the main character in Razor, she was also in Season 2 of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and was pretty good there too. :) which if you haven't watched T:SCC, I highly recommend it. It's a successor to T1 & T2, ignoring everything from T3 and beyond. I honestly felt, it was better than all the movies after T2, but that's just me.

@TroyConvers5000

25 күн бұрын

Me too.

The actor playing that first hybrid is also the voice of the Bentusi in the game "Homeworld".

@ekkanaserene

5 ай бұрын

Aha! That's where I recognize that voice! That was driving me crazy.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

Damn. Thank you. Every time I watch Razor ( about 15 at this point ) I have this nagging feeling that I have heard this voice somewhere.

@TheGoddamnBacon

5 ай бұрын

"All that moves, is easily heard in the void. We will listen for you. Farewell."

@airplanemaster1

2 ай бұрын

Campbell Lane is his name

Disobeying a direct order from a superior officer in time of war can be classified as mutiny. Mutiny in time of war can be punishable by death, according to military law. Not necessarily American military law.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

Question an order of a flag officer in front of her crew is always a bad idea. Never mind time of war, in a middle of a fight agaisnt superior forces lol

@Trifler500

4 ай бұрын

@@neutchain7838And yet the rules of the military do state that officers should refuse to follow an illegal order.

@mitchellmelkin4078

4 ай бұрын

​@@Trifler500, There's nothing to suggest it was an illegal order.

@Trifler500

4 ай бұрын

@@mitchellmelkin4078I was speaking more generally in response to the OP, not about the specific scene.

I recall commenting when you first reacted to the miniseries, that you were in for quite a rollercoaster ride with BSG. All characters have flaws, virtues, strengths, and sometimes you'll not be sure which side is in the right. And nearly every episode throws you an unexpected surprise. There are quite a few left in season 4.

1. The rebel alliance is military, 2. Star fleet command is military, and 3. In Battlestar the military is all that's left.....no government

@Ryan_Christopher

5 ай бұрын

The Rebel Alliance was a Civilian Alliance with a military arm. It’s fleet wouldn’t have been funded if not for the civilians, like Sen. Mon Mothma, laundering Imperial Credits into the effort. Star Fleet has Science Vessels, and only two classes of ships built purely for combat, so not entirely “military.” Battlestar still has a civilian government. How do you explain Pres. Roslyn and Vice Pres. Baltar and the Quorum of the Twelve Elders?

The version of Number Six here was never directly referred to by name until this movie, within the shows... but behind-the-scenes discussions around that time used the name "Gina". Her surname, Inviere, is Romanian for "resurrection", and was first mentioned in this movie. The name Gina is a reference to critics of the show who were fans of the original 70s version, who often referred to this show as "Galactica In Name Only", or GINO.

@pskopsyke

5 ай бұрын

GINO yes, you beat me to it.

@bcn1gh7h4wk

5 ай бұрын

uhmmm... Six did say "I am number Six" like 3 episodes into the series... the thing with this movie is that it puts the name Six right after seven, and seven isn't anywhere to be seen. and that's code for massive spoiler ahead. which, at this point in the series, has been dropped casually at some point and nobody noticed it.

@Sephiroth144

5 ай бұрын

@@bcn1gh7h4wk She said it in the miniseries- but the OP is talking about THIS Six (the one onboard Pegasus) not the Caprica Six nor the Sixes in general.

@marcusgroupx

5 ай бұрын

Interesting...! ♥

@ChibiHoshiDragon

5 ай бұрын

@@Sephiroth144 The: once they were 7, now they are 6 is about how at first only 1 model (7) was boxed but then 3 was boxed, leaving 6 models

Military discipline and values ARE necessary in military situations, and they ARE a good thing, DONE PROPERLY, even the bits you don't like such as capital punishment for disobeying orders under fire. Think about the incentives: if a soldier thinks he has a 75% chance of dying if he follows your orders, what are you going to threaten him with to get his compliance? A few years in jail? The only effective motivator at that point is a 100% chance of dying if he _doesn't_ follow your orders. It's harsh, but war IS harsh. The point of Admiral Kane's story is to show how easily that military mind set can get corrupted and go over the top when there are no civilian checks and balances to it. The biggest difference between Adama and Kane isn't that they have such fundamentally different value systems, it's that Adama had legitimate civilian authority around to give him a new mission, and as a good military officer in a democracy, he did the proper thing and deferred to it. Kane was the equivalent of the military in a country where the civilian government has been overthrown by them: no checks, no balances, military priorities at 111%

@mar.s6516

6 ай бұрын

Yeah but that guy wasnt just a soldier, he was XO right? I allways thought part of XO/2nd in command on ship was to voice differnet opinion, kinda be counterbalance to captain (among others oc.) even actually step up, or oppose to capt in except. circumstances - maybe when capt has breakdown, or break rules of war/rules of eng. I just feel he had every reason to stand up to Capt even under military law and not just be shot in place. But i am aware my "knowledge" about military rules is very casual so feel free to explain or correct me if i am wrong.

@leosarmiento4823

5 ай бұрын

​​@@mar.s6516, the XO is there to provided alternatives and other options to the CO. Yet, unless the XO wants to call for a mutiny, the orders of the CO are final (especially while under fire). Under normal circumstances (and after the fact), the CO would likely be investigated for their actions by those above them...and possibly face court martial if they were found derelict of duty. But in Cain's case, she was the ranking authority.

@RocketSurgn_

5 ай бұрын

@@mar.s6516 It's complicated, and there are a few different things that play into it. Short version- no, the XO's primary role is to manage the specifics of executing the Captain's *lawful* orders and technically her orders are almost certainly lawful. An order being bad, which I personally think it was, doesn't in itself make it unlawful. The XO would certainly advise the captain, and his initial comments about it looking like a trap etc are appropriate, however the Captain is still the ultimate authority and undermining that or especially refusing to carry out her orders is crossing a huge line. Consequences for refusing to follow lawful orders depend on circumstances, from just being written up to years in prison... but in time of war (especially under enemy action) it does carry the potential for the death penalty. Even then he'd generally be relieved of his position and held until a trial. She'd likely be investigated once things settled and maybe even punished when they return to higher command, but that doesn't exist anymore and in the moment under enemy action the captain has very broad authority to do what they deem necessary. The intent is that in a critical situation, if someone disobeys a key order (whether it's the best order or not) it can have vast consequences to safety of the ship/crew and or mission. In this case (and in general) Cain abuses that authority, but it's authority she does have. If it was an illegal order, there is actually a duty _not_ to obey illegal orders, but whether an order is legal can't actually be determined until a military judge does much later. From the US Military code of justice: "An order requiring the performance of a military duty or act may be inferred to be lawful, and *it is disobeyed at the subordinate’s peril*. This inference does not apply to a patently illegal order, such as one that directs the commission of a crime." with a _patently illegal order_ being "an order that “a person of ordinary sense and understanding” would know to be unlawful". So they are expected to disobey an unlawful order, but better be damn confident because the legality is very open to interpretation until a judge rules on it and the most likely best case result will be punishment as if it was lawful until that ruling and a big chance the court will uphold the order. Last, relieving the captain under exceptional circumstances (which the XO here doesn't even try to do, though Apollo does in the main series). A commanding officer can be removed if they are in serious violation of regulations, but it really has to be extreme/a danger to the ship/crew caused by the breaches of regulation (not just because there might be a better decision). In the moment it would come down to whether the other senior officers agree the removal and long term there would be a court-martial to determine if it was a legal removal. If the other officers disagree at the time, or the court later disagrees, it's mutiny.

@RocketSurgn_

5 ай бұрын

To be clear I do think Cain is an immoral person, a toxic leader (however tactically talented she may be to have kept the ship alive), and is shown to have given multiple wildly illegal orders. That just doesn't probably doesn't include the one she shot the XO over. The XO was doing the right thing to push back when he thought it was a bad decision that endangers the ship but refusing the orders once confirmed only puts the ship and crew at more risk.

@mar.s6516

5 ай бұрын

Hey, just wanted to say thank you all for your imput and for nice conversation on this topic. 🙂@@RocketSurgn_

8:52 As a scientifically minded person, I always hated the "we might end up inside a sun" line... They used it in the show itself too. As Douglas Adams once wrote: "Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is." I mean, the odds of jumping into a star... I don't like using this word a lot, but it's infinitesimally small. And yes, that is a real word, and it's the genuine odds of jumping into a star.

@KillahMate

5 ай бұрын

Considering how often they reference jumping into an object, my head canon was always that the jump drives are strongly affected by gravitational fields - seeing as how gravity curves space, and how that effect would be more pronounced in higher dimensions, any mass would appear exponentially 'bigger' in hyperspace than it is in realspace. Meaning a blind jump doesn't have equal probability of landing you at any random point of realspace - instead there's a significantly higher relative probability of landing you within a mass, with that probability skyrocketing as the mass/gravity increases (for example if the mass is a star).

@jerodast

5 ай бұрын

@@KillahMate That's cool. I buy it. It's similar to the justification I use for why going back in time by a day doesn't put you 1/365th of the way around the sun from the Earth :) [and somehow rotational frame of reference is maintained also...]

@sparrowlt

5 ай бұрын

Correct.. but i allways took that like Star Wars in wich suposedly massive objects project a way bigger gravity well shadow in hyperspace than in real space so its harder to navigate in hyperspace than in the vast empty space where is extremelly unlikelly to run into something just running in straight line.. i took it as gravity wells mess with FTL navigation pulling things into them or what wich requires to compensate in calculations.. lack of them might end up ending up close to a gravity well and being pulled into it.. but its just my "own fan explanation"... (supported by that unforntunate Raptor that jumped inside a mountain in Caprica)

When I was in the military, one of the things they taught us in basic training had two aspects. On one hand, we HAD to obey orders. That's the bread and butter of a functioning military. There's often not time for a superior officer to explain the ins and outs or to walk their underlings through the reasoning behind an order. And, since it's the military, which deals with life and death situations as part of the job description, moments of hesitation can cost lives. We HAD to obey orders. On the other hand, we also had an obligation to _disobey_ what was called "clearly illegal orders". What that statement alone told us was that despite all the discipline around "good soldiers follow orders" (TBB anyone?), those orders and indeed the entire military still had rules, regulations, and laws that they needed to operate within. And yet, as another layer on top of all of that, you have the situation the BSG fleet is in. Not just a "regular" military-style emergency "situation", but one involving the _survival or extinction of the entire human species._ In those circumstances, even the extreme can be necessary. For example, if I went up to someone on the street and ordered them to cut off their arm with a dull knife, that's both not okay, and rather freaking cuckoo! And yet, that same exact course of action was not only a _good_ idea, it was _utterly necessary for survival_ in the case of Aron Ralston (Google it if you dare), whose arm was pinned by a fallen boulder for 5 days. It's hard to really grasp these situations, to imagine such things from our highly-privileged first-world perspectives. Nevertheless, in times of crisis, many of the things we think of as valuable, important, and even vital to our humanity just get tossed out the window as superfluous fluff. That doesn't mean they're less important during "normal" times, it just means that they're perhaps less important to _survival._

Btw this actress had very interresting story arc on Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles tv show, if anyone wanted to check that out - it act. had enough similarities (her arc and character there) with Shaw on this show.

The old radar and guardian cylons are very close to the original design from the 70's series. very nostalgic

@sparrowlt

6 ай бұрын

Same for the raiders and basestars .. the guardian basestar is new but in the flashback on opèration raptor talon you can see a couple "TOS" BaseStars

@VegetaLF7

5 ай бұрын

Yup. We also saw them in the miniseries too. In the Galactica museum we see TOS Cylon Centurions Raiders and Basestars as well as Colonial Vipers. The Mk II Vipers that the Galactica crew takes and uses are new designs for the reimagined show, but we do see a couple of Mk I Vipers in the museum, the design used in the original BSG. @@sparrowlt

Wait... in what way is the Rebel Alliance not a military organization with a chain of command? Or Star Fleet, for that matter, when the Federation is at war? Sisko, especially, has had to make some very dark decisions, and the people under him have had to carry them out. The penalty for disobeying would be court martial, not summary execution, but still. I think there's a Hierarchy of Needs kind of thing going on, here. The highest ideals and principles of humanity, important as they are, worth dying for though they may be, aren't worth much anymore if there's nobody at all left alive to value them. If your village is facing famine, it needs more farmers (or related roles), not a brilliant poet or philosopher. If your village is under existential threat from an external military force, the ability to fend off that force takes top priority. A bunch of people sacrificing their lives to protect the ideals of their civilization may make sense; sacrificing the entire civilization does not, because there would be nobody left to observe or appreciate those ideals. Of course, it's rarely so cut and dried. It's hard to know in advance what will or won't make the difference in terms of survival as a society/species. So, we wind up with trade-offs, with different people making different ones. Cain goes to the absolute extreme, and is willing to sacrifice any ideal or principle (or people) she needs to to secure an extra sliver of advantage. As terrible and short-sighted as that is, the opposite extreme isn't great, either, since it would result in the extermination of the human race. Roslin and Adama take a more balanced approach, maintaining as many ideals as they can until they feel like they have no other choice (even if we don't always agree with them). And, even then, they are sometimes open to reconsidering those trade-offs (e.g., "Dirty Hands"). The forced pregnancy thing is... disturbing. I can understand the reasoning, but I think there were alternatives available that would be less violating of bodily autonomy. All this rambling is to say that there's a very good reason why the military (including military discipline) is a high priority in the context of this show, although reasonable people may still disagree regarding specific decisions. Sometimes there are no good options available, and you have to go with the least-bad one, to the best of your ability to assess that. That tension, being forced to trade off between things that you would normally consider non-negotiable, leads to some really compelling TV, IMO.

Razor is my favourite bsg movie. It deepens the understanding of circumstances of the frackhole they all end up. The true and tragic star of the movie is Kendra Shaw... I love her character, forged and fallen at the Armaggedon. I always wonder, what would happen if Caine met a bigger civilian fleet with a strong leader from civilian goverment to counterweight her kamikaze quest of vengeance? Do you remember the start of the BSG series, when Adama also was thinking that all was lost, and all they had was the fight to the bitter end? And Roslin push him gently to another direction? He is wiser and more experienced, but he can be as military commander as ruthles as he needs to be to fullfill the mission... what would happened if he end up in conditions more similar to what happened to Pegasus, how much the objective reality could pushed the crew of Galactica to the darkness? P.S. About origin of cylons, you should really watch the Caprica, this show is very underrated.

The purpose of the military is to protect the civilian population. At some point Admiral Cain lost sight of that.

@SeaRaven227

3 ай бұрын

Adama disagrees. “There’s a reason you separate the military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

The original Star Trek with Captain Kirk was HEAVILY influenced by The US Navy coming out of world war 2 and the Cold War. A lot of people don’t really realize it because it’s not the main focus of the show but having watched multiple Star Trek series before and after becoming a Naval Officer, the additional context really opens your eyes.

Admiral Ro Laren

@MakotoAtava

6 ай бұрын

Shooting her XO Telemachus Rhade.

@bcn1gh7h4wk

5 ай бұрын

shush. different timeline.

People joke about Star Trek having a therapist on the bridge, but both Galactica and Pegasus could have done with a whole corps of counsellors

@joelaton1062

5 ай бұрын

I hated the counselor on the bridge thing lol. Not the character per say, but just the fact they were soft enough to need one. No military ship should have a freaking therapist on the bridge.

@lordhoot1

5 ай бұрын

@joelaton1062 I think if you consider the disproportionate mental health burden borne by veterans today it makes perfect sense

@joelaton1062

5 ай бұрын

@@lordhoot1 Veterans yes. Those were still active service people. And like i said, it was not hate for the character. Or even having a counselor on the ship. Kinda the same as having a priest or chaplain on board. Some people need that kind of care. But having it on the bridge of a warship is ridiculous.

@Trifler500

4 ай бұрын

@@joelaton1062No point in bringing up what a military ship should or shouldn't have when the whole ship was built for peacetime, with half the ship full of civilian families. :)

This movie makes you actually understand and sympathize with colonel fisk. He allowed the orders he disagreed with because he feared following his predecessor into the grave

When the hybrid was talking my mind went "Homeworld???" and turns out that the Hybrid was played by Campbell Lane who was the narrator and Bentusi in the Homeworld games. His voice sure was distinct.

The Hybrids prophecy is extremely important and very cryptic when it described the things to come in season 4. The fun part is figuring out what it all means.

@StekTM1

6 ай бұрын

The hard part is staying awake during season 4

@SPQR21SEAL

6 ай бұрын

I have seen all the episodes several times, and that hybrid prophecy makes no sense to me, its all mumbo jumbo and u should not pay to much attention to it.

@SuperDave1426

6 ай бұрын

@@SPQR21SEAL Well, that's your opinion. 😉 Both of the "prophesies" we hear from the hybrid(s) during this episode (the one at the end, and the one earlier starting with "the seven, now six") make perfect sense to me, knowing what's coming in the final season. I've talked with other people who also get it. You didn't get it, and other people didn't get it, either. But that doesn't mean that nobody got it, nor does it mean that it should just be ignored by anyone else watching for the first time. 👍‍

@choosecarefully408

5 ай бұрын

@@SuperDave1426 Get "it?" What a dismissive comment. If you can't define what it is, it doesn't seem like you did either.

@SuperDave1426

5 ай бұрын

@@choosecarefully408 Nothing dismissive about it. Whether or not you "get" something is a common, long-time used phrase for whether or not you understand something. How about putting away the over-sensitive, looking-for-insult-where-none-is-offered hat you're wearing, and just reading the statement for what it is. Some people got it, some people didn't. Is no different than saying some people understood it and some people didn't.

Stephanie Jacobsen, who portrays Kendra is of mixed-ethnic heritage from Hong Kong, who lives in Australia (mostly)

Following orders and sticking to a "Military" mindset isn't a good way to live. But its a GREAT way to not DIE during a War.

Adama himself makes a very relevant point (I forget which episode, but it's in season 2): if Roslin hadn't been there screaming at him to abandon the fight and focus on keeping what was left of the human race alive, he would have done pretty much exactly what Cain did. We saw him in the opening miniseries getting ready to do just that

@theaikidoka

5 ай бұрын

Yes, Adama is not bloodthirsty, but driven by a human desrire to hit back if hit. The conflict between his personal nature, his duty, and the responsibilities of protecting others is a fascinating tug-of-war.

@bcn1gh7h4wk

5 ай бұрын

the problem with military men is... well... they're military. and the military you'd always trust to be the military, and try to defend the system by working the system itself, which they understand to be the military. nowhere in that structure is it taught to them, that the military is a tool of the state, and the state is ran by civilians... and civilians are not military. when democracy was established in favor of absolutism, states shifted to running two parallel systems: the structured military, and the populace.... it was only a matter of time that both systems destabilized each other. either you pull an Israel or China and run the whole country through the military so everyone is on the same page, or you pull a Costa Rica and be done with the military altogether, for the same reason. you can't have two systems colliding with one another in a crisis situation, because the populace won't understand what the crisis is, and the military will be hampered from running efficiently for having to protect the populace.

@Sephiroth144

5 ай бұрын

Well, probably minus the abject barbarism- not he or even Tigh was looking at the RTF at Ragnar as "more spare parts and bodies".

@CaptainEnglehorn

5 ай бұрын

⁠@@Sephiroth144exactly. Tigh felt that helping the civilian fleet in terms of tending to their wounded would take away from their effort to rearm the ship and go out to fight, but he didn’t start ordering members of the civilian fleet to join the Galactica crew, or to steal their ftl drives. The comment is right that Adama was about to do as Cain did in terms of fighting a war that was already lost, but not that it was about revenge. Adama is driven by duty,however misplaced that may be.

@thepiratemongoose8965

5 ай бұрын

​ @Sephiroth144 and @CaptainEnglehorn Fair point. But Galactica hadn't just lost half her crew, nor was she undergoing a major refit that got interrupted by the Cylon attack. Sure, Galactica was being converted into a museum, but aside from the hangar being turned into a gift shop and all of her ammunition being removed she was fully intact. All of her equipment was operational. Pegasus had been stripped down for an overhaul; she was missing a lot of critical components when she jumped out of drydock. Who knows what Adama would have done if he'd needed parts and crew to get Galactica combat-ready and a bunch of civilian ships were the only source? Also remember that Roslin is very much a humanizing influence on Adama (and by extension everyone else on the ship). Adama and Tigh soften significantly between the destruction of the Colonies and the appearance of Pegasus

Nice to hear the Bentusi voice actor using his distinct voice in another sci if universe.

11:55 This makes Gina's final words to Cain "You're not my type" make so much more sense, doesn't it? And yeah, Kendra Shaw/Stephanie Jacobsen is just ungodly beautiful. Those eyes.

Kara made the same mercy choice when she was at "The Farm".

The Hybrid was played by the legendary Campbell Lane. My favorite role of his is as the narrator and as the Bentusi in the Homeworld video games. Funnily enough it feels like there's a lot of cross-pollination between Homeworld and Battlestar Galactica, with the first game being clearly influenced by the original Galactica TV show and the one we're now watching being somewhat influenced by Homeworld. The Bentusi in Homeworld are even similar to the Hybrid, being aliens that are fused with their starships and part machine.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

New game coming out soon. Tried the demo on Steam, its really solid and it feels just like 2. Really looking forward to it.

@zeropoint216

5 ай бұрын

The Bentusi! I kenw I recognized that voice!

@TheGoddamnBacon

5 ай бұрын

In the end, he was not bound. Just as he said he shall not be.

All this has happened before and will happen again. By your command… The mind-frack of this show is absolutely glorious. ;-)

I like Cain as the mirror to Adama. She is what Adama likely would’ve become if not for Roselyn.

The Music was both mesmerizing and haunting, as was Stephanie Jacobsen's stunning performance as Kendra Shaw. Next up... The Plan, then Blood and Chrome.

@timmooney7528

6 ай бұрын

Stephanie also appeared as a regular character on The Sarah Connor Chronicles.

"Giving up our values for security is to lose the battle in advance" -Christopher Pike

@funnylilgalreacts

6 ай бұрын

YES. THIS. God I love Star Trek

@erosson27

6 ай бұрын

@@funnylilgalreacts I love Anson Mount as Pike.... He reminded what it felt like as a boy to have my heroes back.

Something I just noticed @30:58, tradition is that the junior rank salutes the senior rank first. The only times that is reversed is if the junior has been recognized with a top-level award (such as the Medal of Honor) or in moments of respect. Even though they were always arguing, Shaw is admitting here that Starbuck is worthy of her respect.

What can really bake your noodle, is if Cain WASNT the cutthroat type to the extent she was, Pegasus wouldn't have survived to end up being Captained By Apollo and used as a sacrifice to Save Galactica at New Caprica. Thus, in her own fucked up way she actually did help save the human race from complete wipe out.

I keep forgetting that Cain's subordinate (who gets a bullet in the brain) was played by Steve Bacic, who was a regular on a cheesy but pretty fun sci-fi show called Andromeda.

Yesssssss! I was really looking forward to you watching this! This just made my day

It’s hard to feel bad for Gina. She wasn’t a sleeper agent. She spent months inserting the Cylon Computer virus into the Pegasus, and God knows how many other Battlestars, bases, networks. She ingratiated herself with Admiral Cain, touched her heart, won her love, got in her head, all while plotting the death of her race. Just as her comrades were doing the same throughout the Fleet. I’ll bet the civilian contractor Gina Inviere worked for was a fully Cylon run operation.

@AngeloBarovierSD

5 ай бұрын

“It’s not about her. It’s about us.” - Rev. Dr. Anna Volovodov.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

Can't really blame the Admiral. Gina would have me folded within minutes most likely. :)

@CaptainEnglehorn

5 ай бұрын

But even sleeper agents don’t deserved to be raped, which is what happened to Gina repeatedly for nearly a year.

40:45 - Keep in mind that Adama was reading CAIN's logs, so he only had what she wrote to go by.

"History will not be kind.". That all depends on who writes that history.

I missed this the first time and watched it in my first rewatch of the series. It made me think about how differently Adama and Cane took opposition and criticism right after the attack. It always chills me when Laura R said to Adama I don't know why I have to tell you this but the war is over we lost. Now Cain probably would have just shot Laura and go on with the war at all costs. I think about different views of why the military exists. It exists to attack foreign forces and to protect you from those forces. It is Laura we have to thank for helping to convince Adama he did not have the numbers to win against the Cylons. He needed to choose protection of the civilian fleet as the priority.

@jerodast

5 ай бұрын

And the fact is Cain knew she couldn't BEAT all the Cylons either. So her "mission" was to keep poking them until everyone under her command died. She knew this. And even after discovering enough human survivors to keep their society alive, she still chose to continue the futile suicide mission instead. The mission she made up became more important than her fundamental purpose as an officer.

32:50 It means that history repeats itself from time to time, perhaps not in the same way as before, but in a similar way at different times.

I'm reminded of the term, "the road to hell is paved in good intentions", well you can also get there via bad acts. Mere survival is not enough, if you sacrice what makes you human to get there.

3:25 Without looking it up, I can't remember this actress' name, but she's also in "The Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles."

I really like "Razor" and "Blood and Chrome", but I think the reimagined series as a whole did a great job showing traumas and the far-outside aspects of humanity when it comes to war, romance, daily life, etc. Lots to say on it, but I'll wait until you're done with the entire series! Always happy to see your BSG reaction vids in my notifications!

Battlestar Galactica: Blood & Chrome is a 90 minute movie about Adama and the first Cylon War. Worth a watch, it was also a test for a spinoff series

19:04 This is what the Cylons looked like in the 1978 series...as well as the ship that Saul says "I haven't seen one of these in years." 19:47 Nevermind, you already know that. LOL

This was the moment I have been waiting for, your reaction to Razor. I'm so glad you enjoyed watching Razor. This story line was my favorite of the entire Battlestar Galactica series. Now that you've seen some of the original Cylons and their raiders I hope you take some time to watch the original series.

Outside of the flying motorcycles, there is little of worth in Galactica 80.

Refusing to follow orders in a time of war can be considered mutiny. Mutiny in a time of war, can be punished by the death penalty. You can question an order. You can obey orders under protest. But you can not refuse to follow a lawful order. Refusing to follow an order to attack on an enemy force because you have a 'bad feeling' is not acceptable. Belzen refused the order, he did not question it, or obey under protest. I disobeyed an order in basic training because I was aware that it constituted an illegal order and as such I had, not only the right, but the duty, to refuse. 3 people faced charges. 2 lost their jobs and 1 was reduced in rank. I successfully completed basic training. Gina hesitated because she really did feel something for Cain. If she didn't then she wouldn't have hesitated, and spared herself all the later grief that she is put through by Cain, and on her orders. Torture of prisoners is rarely, if ever, effective, at getting credible, verifiable infromation. Cain is hurt by Gina's betrayal that she is not interested in information. She wants Gina to suffer like she is. The effective way to extract information, or cooporation, from someone is to find what they care about and torture/threaten them, while asking your prisoner the questions/cooporation. Please don't mention Galactica and 80s in the same sentnece, it brings up painful memories of how bad Galactica could get. The Rebel Alliance (Star Wars) are only the good guys becuase, we the audience, have information that the vast majority of the people in that galaxy far, far away, don't have. We know that Palpitine manipulated events to create the Empire and that he is evil. To the vast majority of people Palpatine was elected to office and legally given emergency powers in order to wage the clone wars. Towards the end of the clone wars, a delegation of 2000 came to Palpatine with demands. These included that he cease producing clones for the army, surrender his position as the elected leader of the Galactic Republic, and open a dialogue with the Seperatists. A few problems with this are, you don't stop creating war material during a time of war. The clones were war material. Palpatine was elected because he was neither on the side of the corrupt senators, or on the side of the senators who were just trying to keep the lights on, and had become the only person who could get anything done. You don't cut off the head of the body in a time of war. The dialpgue between Repuclic and Seperatists never stopped. Padme, and others, often went on diplomatic missions, frequently at the request of Palpatine. In short, the delegation of 2000 and there demands read as a plot to bring down the Republic. After the seperatists surrendered, Palpatine, and his intelligence agencies, were able to put forward the idea that while the seperatists had been beaten, there was still a threat, as others had risen up to try and destroy the Republic, not through a direct confrontation but through terror attacks. This was made ridiculously easy thanks to Rebels like Saw Gerrera and his Partisan who had no trouble targeting non combatants, because to them, anyone who was not directly opposed to the Empire was an Imperial. Everyone was legally an Imperial citizen, as there was no other government, that's why it's called the Galctic Civil War. Notable members of the delegation of 2000 include Bale Organa and Mon Mothma. Important leaders of the Rebellion. The Jedi, attempting to depose Palpatine was seen as an attempt by the Jedi to seize power justifying the use of Order 66. Note that Order 65 called on the Grand Army to use any means neccessary to remove the Supreme Chancellor from office, if a majority of the senate voted for its use. To most people nothing changed from the Galactic Republic to the Galactic Empire. The senate lasted 19 more years as a way to maintain the illusion that all was continuing as it had before, excpet that Rebel activity was increasing as were the more extremist elements like Saw's Partisans. Jim Kirk was a part of the Federation's military arm, Star Fleet. While the Federation tended to build their ships for multiple purposes, the vast majority of ships like the Enterprise were fully capable warships. Kirk's Enterprise is listed as a heavy cruiser, and few ships, except dedicated warships can match its firepower. I served in the British army, and although I never served in a war, I did serve in areas where peace keeping duties took place, or supporting aid relief missions in war torn regions. The military has duties in peace time, that only a military can handle. Most people who leave the military don't have problems in civy life, but they do retain everything they learned. They often gravitate to similar roles in civilian life. For example I was in army signals, and although I was army, worked for the RAF. I got a job working on an airport. My military knowledge and experience serving me well. Most members of the military are not interested in violence. They, more than anyone else, are fully aware of the cost of violence, and as such are more likely to do anything to avoid it, but can resort to it if neccessary. The military doesn't want robots. They want people who can follow orders, but who can also question those orders if they violate legal, and at least in the British army, moral codes of conduct. TV and filns rarely, if ever, get this part right.

Rhade is a really unlucky XO in all his incarnations.

When the show originally aired, my interpretation of the line "this has all happened before, and it will all happen again" was that it was an acknowledgement of the original 1978 series, and while those events didn't actually happen in this universe, it did happen in another parallel universe. There are little nods to the original series sprinkled throughout the show. There was also talk at the time that the original creator, Glen A. Larson, wanted to create a new movie adaption of the show, so I think the writers also wanted to embrace any reboots that may come later.

On the topic of seeing things through a military lens : - You touched upon a "face / mask" that military leaders have to keep up with their subordinates. Cain had such a face for everyone, including her XO who she shot . That's the difference between her & her XO and Adama and Tigh . The latter know each other for way longer. They're friends. Tigh can say to Adama "I embarrassed you today" , and Adama can reply "You're my oldest friend Saul, you never embarrass me" (even as Tigh fell apart in the court room scene) . - As to finding no fault in Cain's actions from a military stand point : The civilian fleet that they found likely had no Tillium refinery ship . That meant that they were not capable of being self sufficient or to evade the Cylons for long . Recall what Galactica had to deal with in the first episodes: food & water . Taking more people who didn't have anything to contribute onboard Pegasus (families) would have been just expenditure of food and water and resources. Galactica and Pegasus diverged on their mission. Galactica became a guardian, with it's miniature of the 12 Colonies society intact , including politics, military, civics and religion . Pegasus became the knife that Cain wielded . A knife has no need of people, just a target . Thus the physical metaphor of Cain & her knife (that get's passed on ...) , and the name of the movie referencing the theme & the "universe" of Pegasus , as a reminder & and contrast to Galactica .

Adama beating the crap out of the Centurion with a tube mirrors him beating the crap of Leoben with a tube too in the miniseries

You knew she was going to shoot her XO. The guy drinking with Saul told him that.

So the both the ships and are oval and the Cylons from the flashback to the first Cylon war are what the Cylons look like in the Original Battlestar Galactica and its spin-off series Battlestar Galactica: 1980.

The main difference in the actions taken by Adama and Cain are that Adama had Roslin and Apollo in his ear.

@neutchain7838

5 ай бұрын

Seeing all your actions reflected in the eyes of your only child must haunting when you are in a fight for the survival of your race.

@JoseyWales44s

5 ай бұрын

True, he was ready to abandon the civilian fleet near the end of the mini-series.

The thing about BSG is that this show is about the evolution of humans and the evolution of cylons emotionally and spiritually. It starts from a strict military standpoint but everyone is forced to change. That’s what is amazing about this show.

@bcn1gh7h4wk

5 ай бұрын

the thing about BSG is that it starts very black & white: we're humans, they're the enemy. but then you meet human-looking enemies... so, the B&W becomes "ok, *which* of us humans might be an enemy?" and then you meet a human-looking enemy that can feel like a human, and a human-looking and feeling enemy who outright wants to go back to being a machine, so the question is "What even *IS* a human anymore!?" _THAT_ is BSG.

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

@@bcn1gh7h4wk 2 words - NieR Automata

@bcn1gh7h4wk

5 ай бұрын

@@colinloves yeah,... 2 even older words: Blade Runner.

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

@@bcn1gh7h4wk I give ya 2 newer words. The Creator and OMG doo some bits look just like Blade Runner. A MUST WATCH

I’m so glad you’ve watched this! I understand why people say to wait to watch this one. However, I beg you to watch The Plan after the episode “No Exit” in season 4 instead of airing order (after the series finale). The film won’t spoil anything, gives a lot of insight, but isn’t very exciting, or mind blowing. Much better to have the finale be your final BSG experience and end note for the series.

Kirk and the Enterprise were armed to the teeth for their scientific mission.

I have mixed feelings about the extended cut, which wasn’t available for viewing when they broadcast it originally, but about a week or 2 after it aired you could buy the DVD. I like the extended space battle with young Adama, but the gunfight as they’re falling out of the sky was really bad and the effects don’t really hold up. Some of those scenes were streamed online as part of an online exclusive webisode series for Razor which were streamed 1 a week for 7 weeks before Razor aired and featured more of the young Adama. Mostly I enjoyed this movie, but it’s pretty non-essential when it comes to Battlestar. Though it is far superior to “The Plan” I do have to disagree with one thing though - while the crew of the Enterprise were on a mission of exploration, Kirk was DEFINITELY a military commander and there’s many episodes where this is plainly shown. Probably the worst example is “Errand of Mercy” where Kirk launches an unsanctioned attack on the Klingons for no good reason and claims that he’s trying to protect people from the Klingons, who have annexed their planet but they’re cool with it and ask him to stop. And then Kirk plans a suicide attack anyways and the planets inhabitants have to basically check him and force him to negotiate with the Klingons. Yes it’s a morality play and Kirk confronts his own bloodlust and willingness to commit acts of violence, but Star Treks setting is not one of just exploration and peace. Also, Battlestar is a very heightened setting. Your average infantryman in the United States Army isn’t facing the types of situations faced in Battlestar (I’m not sure anyone would tolerate their CO executing the XO for anything less than a huge capital crime or something)

@Diveyl

6 ай бұрын

a gray area with that execution. it could be pinned as mutiny in times of conflict, and mutiny of ship was punished with death, but it is true that admiral went off rails at that moment

@CaptainEnglehorn

6 ай бұрын

@@Diveylit wasn’t a mutiny. He didn’t try to assume command he just refused an order

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

I thought the air gunfight was amazing

A nostalgia feast! I love seeing the old toasters and ships from 1978! And with the three cylons in their raider with the gold one sitting center in the back...chef's kiss! The hybrid is spitting prophesies...if you can translated/uncode it.

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

I was jumping up and down in joy, while fist pumping the air . LOL

All these funnylilgal reactions have happened before and all of them will happen again. (if you replay them!)

I too was enamoured with the Kendra Shaw character. I think her accent was part of her charm for me.

Really good and emotional reaction! First time finding your channel…all in! BSG was my fave show as a kid.

I think the conflict between the styles of BSG and Trek is that Trek was always presenting an idillic future based on the pursuit of exploration and knowledge without (for the most part) the baggage of modern day society/life and that we have hope for enlightenment. BSG is very much our own current society with all the issues and ugliness that exists and that we see every day leaving not much room for hope other than trying to find a new home while escaping from the past. But even that hope is being threatened by “all this has happened before and will happen again” like we are destined to be stuck in a loop without ever attaining some sort of enlightenment.

37:40 yeah... the difference being, Cain was attacked by toasters and suffered because of it, Picard outright BECAME a toaster, and MILLIONS suffered because of it, enough to send ripples 30 years into the future. you can't compare Cain to Picard in that light.

14:30 shut up, Telemachus!

Hey, noticed your new BSG poster in the background, very cool! Such a great picture

Kara "leading humanity to its end." You do not understand. But you will.

In the real military, not even an admiral could callously shoot a member of their crew for refusing to follow their orders. Caine is only able to do as she does because there is no longer any authority over her and Pegasus becomes a pirate ship following pirate discipline. There needs to be a society to hold the military leaders to account. Once the civilization is gone, there is no authority. The reason that Adama never became a pirate is because Lee showed up with President Roslin and the civilization that Galactica needed to protect.

@haukionkannel

6 ай бұрын

It did hapen during war and it will happen again… In war, normal human laws are in trash bin… it things like this does happen!

Good lord! Razor! I bought this movie so many years ago, but because my disc drive died, I havent thought about my $1 for 2 Chinese dvd collection in yonks! It even had a hidden menu with the BSG soundtrack and a beautifully printed case sleeve with embossing and spot varnish (even if they were bootleg, how the heck could they make and ship this stuff for 50c retail?)! I need to go dig it up and find somewhere to play it again! Stephanie Jacobsen is stunning! I've only ever seen her in this and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. She was great in it too

I don't think most people coming out of the military have trouble adjusting. People are aware they are not in "command" of others and that military discipline will not be followed. We all have families and friends, so we all have social experience with life such without military discipline. Sometimes people return from service with PTSD, but some people suffer from that (and other disorders in civilian life too. I don't think the average veteran, even the average combat veteran, comes back psychologically maladapted for civilian life. The average veteran still may not be your cup of tea, and that is fair.

What you also forget about trek is star fleet four very large wars. They had section 32 and a military branch. Military service has often saved the live of people who woulda ended up.in jail.for lifenor worse.

Agreed...I prefer the best friend/we're family relationship with Lee and Kara versus their lovers relationship. The actor who plays Cain did a phenomenal job! She is absolutely convincing in this role!

This is a story that bridges the two shows together

You were right, what the Hybrid said is important

Adama didn't say that Cain did nothing wrong, he said that she did nothing tactically wrong, his solution to the same problem was to take any ships with FTL drives but left the rest behind to die. This show was very good at raising real issues that were current around the time the show was on, with suicide bombers at local police passing out parades, as was happening in Iraq. The treatment of Cain6 was showing what happens when you dehumanize your enemy, similar to the issues that were happening in Iraq prisons that were run by US troops at the time. It could be argued that Cain6 was just a machine so treat as you would any other machine, but we know different, we know that these 'machines' are not just machines. The reason for the military rules being so hard on orders being followed is because if you allow any order to be open to debate then every order is open to debate. In the earlier show when Ty sealed the bulkheads and didn't allow time for the crew to be evacuated, if the orders hadn't been followed at that point then they may have lost the whole ship. When there was the crew strike, the fleet was pretty defenceless, Adama would have shot people until the strike was broken because otherwise the rest of the 40k humans could have been killed during the next attack. But once discipline was restored then he was open to make changes and improve things as requested, but he has to be in charge or it's all over. But this is also why the government is civilian and are in command of the military, it rarely works the other way around and stays stable. Also, don't watch the bonus features on the disk, there is a good chance they will contain spoilers.

Herald -messenger Apocalypse -revealing or uncovering Harbinger -One who went ahead to find lodgings for an army or for a nobleman and his retinue, hence, a herald (mid 16th century). She is a Herald of the apocalypse harbinger of death

as a model, the sixes were very ruthless in carrying out whatever mission or goals they had. whatever it took to get the job done it would be done no matter the cost. this changes a bit as time goes on but they are still very determined to accomplish whatever goal they have.

She tries to play it down but Shaw just sounds like Bobby from The Expanse at times. Just as hardcore too. Love the NZ accent... 😊

@VoodooMcVee

5 ай бұрын

You mean "occeeent" 😉

@michaausleipzig

5 ай бұрын

@@VoodooMcVee Ai doun't use seeax as a weeeapon, Ai use weeeapons as weeeapons! 😅

to Caine, winning is killing everyone, not just her enemies, but literally everyone. She'll fight until no one is left alive but herself. Her entire life she's never once demonstrated a willingness to lift a finger to save anyone but herself.

Belzen was her friend. Don't you think the crew knew that? So if she let him slide, or gave him a slap on the wrist for disobeying a order in those perilous times, what is gonna stop others on the crew from doing the same? When does it end? We saw that others carried out her orders even when they did not agree with the orders. Belzens death served that purpose. You also got to realize that Adama said from a tactical view, cain did no wrong. From a tactical view, he is right. Cain stripped parts to keep pegasus running after damage. FTL drives for parts. Parts for vipers. All of that makes sense. She just went about it wrong.

I really liked the Kendra Shaw character.

@Angela In normal circumstances I would agree with you and I understand a 100% where are you coming from. Now look at the position they're in. They've created this robotic servants and went might far with it. They gave them real intelligence and they rose up. ( highly recommend to watch the show Caprica, its only 1 season but you will learn a lot about the creation of the Cylons and their monotheistic belief system ). It was a fight for survival against an enemy they literally created themselves to make their life easier. They won the war but as you've seen it was not an overwhelming victory for the Colonies. Then the Cylons disappeared for 40 years. Nobody really know what happened they just vanished. They knew they were out there and they might turn up one day but 40 years is a very long time. So what the Colonies did? They built up the military now that the ships were not dying they could build a lot more of them, invest into R&D modernize the fleet, make some breakthrough in software defense against their tech, etc.... Serving in the military ( especially in the Colonial Navy as a fleet officer) was a prestigious job and carrier. In 40 years they got to the point when all that military spending seemed like waste, after no one saw the Cylons for decades at that point. So they started cutting corners, decreasing the Fleet's budget and they responded accordingly. Less ships, smaller ships, weaker ships. They intorduced the Valkyrie class Battlestar which was very modern but significantly weaker than the Mercury Class ( Pegasus ) but they were doing nothing anyway just patrolling the space and running military exercises. Obviously carrier fleet officers didnt like the way things were but its how things went. The people in the military are always disciplined especially around a flag officer like an Admiral and you could see the way she behaved at the beginning compared to later. Much softer and even friendlier though always demanding. Then BAMM! The attack happens and the Colonies fall within the span of a few hours. The Pegasus was not ready for combat. She knew that, many of her systems were down lots of crew rotated out for leave, not sure about ordnance ( unlike Galactica that needed to be resupplied at Ragnar the Pegasus can manufacture stuff herself ) so she did the only thing she could do...jump away. I am sure that weighed on her heavily, basically left everyone behind. She lost 700 crew in the initial attack. Thats a hell of a toll to pay for a fight you havent fired a shot in return. So they put the ship back into fighting shape, work up the crew to the standards required to conduct military operations then she goes on the attack. The Pegasus is an extremely powerful Battlestar and she knows how to fight it. Helena Cain was no slouch, she had the balls, the tactical knowledge and the rage to just go all in, hit them with everything she's got then withdraw. That ship with her fighter wings ( 200-300 Vipers ) could dish out an insane amount of damage very quickly. I doubt the Colonial Navy had a contingency plan for the total destruction of the Colonies. Her being a flag officer she surely knew this. As far she could tell the Colonies were destroyed and all that were left is her ship and her crew. 1 ship, 1 mission, no mercy. As Starbuck put it : "fight until we can't". I doubt she planned to win the war. I think until she met Galactica and her civilian fleet she didnt even contemplate retaking the colonies. I always felt like she was gonna survive as long as possible and rip into the Cylons as hard as she could, make them bleed for what they've done but eventually go down with the rest of humanity. With a single Battlestar its not rational to expect a win without being able to replace the inevitable loss of manpower. When she found the civilian fleet she took everything and everyone that was useful for her mission and left everything behind that would weigh her down. They were going to die anyway and the Pegasus was going to war. Her leadership style was very strict and ruthless but look from her point of view. Humanity was gone, wiped out by the artificial race they themselves created. They were going to die too probably sooner than later. This is a situation we can't imagine to be in, I certainly can't. A ship is only as strong as the people that serve on it. Discipline is paramount on a Navy ship during wartime. I also dont think she should've shot her XO but again, I have never been in a survival situation, definitely not in a fight to the end. Her XO also made a mistake. Do NOT question orders in front of the crew. You dont want to set that kind of example because this shit trickles down and you will end up with a lot of issues on your hand very quickly. With discipline, efficiency will also drop just as fast and that in a situation like they were in will cost lives and could cost them the ship. What the XO should've done is pull her aside ( Admiral, a word please ) and ask her privatley. In front of the crew is a BAD idea. If you look at Tigh, there were many occasions when he disagreed with Adama but always backed him up. The one time he didnt when Starbuck was on that moon and Adama relieved him. But by his own admission he is a softie. :) But remember the boxing episode...he gave in to the people when they asked him to allow them to leave the ship and it cost lives...thousands of lives. Lives that they were already very short on. Also, the laws and regulations gave her the authority to execute him so she wasnt out of bonds. It was ruthless for sure but she was a flag officer during wartime the regulations gae her free hand. Our standards are not the same as theirs. They were fighting for the survival of the human race for the second time. In my opinion Razor is one of the best part of this series, it added so much more depth to Cain ( what a performance again from Michelle Forbes ), loved Kendra Shaw, another standout performance from someone new to the show and I agree that Stephany Jacobsen is stunning. And Katie Sackhoff will always be Starbuck to me, she took that character and made it her own, it really feels like she is just her, Katie is Kara. Tricia again playing yet another version of the same character that is soo different than all the other version. Gina is probably my favorite. All in all, great vid, really thought provoking and it was really nice to see Pegasus again. I will never forgive Lee for sacrificing her so foolishly.

The original meaning of the word apocalypse. Helps .

@SuperDave1426

6 ай бұрын

Exactly! People today hear the word and automatically think "catastrophe." Absolutely brilliant choice on the part of the writers to use that here. 👍‍

@shanenolan5625

6 ай бұрын

@@SuperDave1426 agreed

In the event of cabin depressurization, secure your own mask before attempting to help others with theirs. You can't help others if you're incapacitated yourself. And in chess, not every piece has the same value. You win chess by knowing which pieces have the most value in any given scenario, and which pieces yield a net positive by being sacrificed. Wars are won by the force that's willing to do what the other side isn't. Sometimes horrific things must be done for terrific reasons. It ain't pretty, but that's how it is. #IntestinalFortitude

@colinloves

5 ай бұрын

sounds too much lie Israel :(

Yes, Katee really is the platonic ideal of Starbuck. Which makes the nerd-fury about the gender swapping of Starbuck (and Boomer) from the original when the miniseries was coming out all the more silly/ironic. Having been a fan of the original when I was a kid, I was not excited for the "reboot" when I first heard about it and was skeptical about the gender-swap among other things, but the first half of the mini-series blew that all out the window. Dirk Benedict was pretty good at the time, but nothing like this. And really I appreciate Richard Hatch as Zarek much more than as original Apollo.

I am former military. I grew up in a military family. I also grew up in a different time and today's Army is NOT the Army that I grew up in and joined. So my perspective is going to be different. And this is NOT a criticism. I will not say it is impossible for a 'non-military' (some times called a civilian), however, it is very hard. When you join the military, you literally, sign a paper that says that you WILLINGLY agree to suspend your constitutionally guarantied rights. You are actually being encouraged to (potentially) kill people. Basic training is designed to do 2 things (other than to teach you to march and shoot). It is designed to force you out of responses and reflexes that you have had, and were 'programed' into you for your entire life. It is also designed to 're-program' you to respond instantly to orders. In combat or many such situations you may find yourself, your leaders can not and should not stop and explain orders. And yes, before the hate falls, there is a difference between shooting civilians and not following orders. Also, in the modern military, you do not kill someone for NOT following orders. It is a tough position to be in. Both as someone giving orders and getting those orders. This is much too long to try to hash out here. In fact this topic is one that was covered in long and repeated classes and conversations. It evolves and changes or 'refines' over time. I am trying to keep this out of the TLDR file but I will end on. 1) Caine was wrong. 2) Caine was an extreme characterization of what many people (mostly civilians) think the military is. 3) They are not always wrong.

In a war of extermination I think the military might have the most power lol.