#pewpew

Nice vid! I will say though, using "player expression" in the context of a Gregga 1cc/scoring doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMO. You make choices in Greg, but they aren't you expressing yourself - they're simply your attempt to evaluate what the best option is given very ambiguous unclear context. Your choices get evaluated based on the game's objective performance metrics and the more you understand the game's mechanics the more solidified your routes become. Garegga is particularly good at encouraging decision making becasue of how well it obfuscates optimal strats (even if you have rank details enabled, the slow granular nature of rank makes it a lot harder to track). Presumably if you knew what the optimal choice was in any given situation & had the ability to execute it, you'd always go for it no? Player expression happens mostly when you choose which ship you play, when you decide to commit to a 1cc or a survival run, it's when you deliberately go against what's optimal, what's sensible within the logic of the game. You could say that merely having a playstyle is self expression (some of them obviously are - suboptimal/unnecessary ones for example) but at that point the meaning of "expression" gets very fuzzy since playstyles tend to be the result of players falling into more comfortable patterns unconsciously even if they don't want to. A good example here would be Radiant Silvergun which has a similar game long resource build up (which affects difficulty in a different way) but is a lot clearer in what it wants you to do - I'd be hard pressed to say that I choose the chains I choose because I'm expressing myself, it's just cause I'm not good enough to go for harder chains. Player expression as a design virtue is less of an arcade thing (they're obsessed with objective performance metrics, after all) and more of a modern lense that tries to shove square pegs into round holes. Another thing is that, while Gregga's rank being a game long resource is fairly unique, if you zoom in a little bit these dynamics are nearly universal in shmups with indepth scoring. Ketsui which you showed is a great example of that since once you get into scoring you will be figuring out how to best gain/spend your chips and figuring out enemy base values right from the get-go. Guwange is another great example, because the earlier you get to 1000 coins, the quicker you can start milking enemies/bosses for EVEN MORE coins. This is really nice design for the arcades, but it does come with its drawbacks - the more you stress the player early on, the more prone to resets the game will be. Eventually players will have a hard time even making it out of the first 2 stages and seeing the rest of the game. And ofc getting people to care about scoring is hard, but hey choosing to go for a good score is some solid player expression ;) ....Also Greg's take on rank to me highlights the problem with trying to wipe away abstract elements from games. Developers have been trying to ground the under-the-hood elements of games in in-universe objects (think score vs actual ingame coins), which makes them more accessible to players but as a result trains them to be less tolerant of abstractions. As a result completely unique experiences like Garegga become unpalatable to the modern audience. Not just because of difficulty/lack of familiarity with conventions but because of their low tolerance for abstractions. It legit massively limits what game developers can do, and in turn homogenizes games.

@SpidersSTG

6 ай бұрын

@boghog Write a book already! You can’t just be dropping these insights in a YT comments section lol. Grant us eyes dammit!

Just finished watching this, everything you went over is how I feel about Garegga, It's still one of my favorite shmups of all time and every time I play it it's still just as fun and engaging as the first time I played it 6 years ago. You mentioned that 25 years later, people are still finding ways to push the game further; this is true! the usage of synchronizing your shot firing frame to get slightly more points on various sections of the game is becoming more widespread. As well as a few new tidbits on Stage 6 to squeeze out just eeks of points here and there. Garegga is truly a wonderous game. While ironically stage 3 is my least favorite (its a little slow and only a few things to do) Stages 5, 6 and 7 are some of the most fun I have in this genre. Truly a masterclass game. Thanks Yagawa and thank you Luke for this video

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words!!! I knew people were still pushing the score but had no idea about that shot technique, I'll have to look into it because that sounds wild. I guess stage 3 would also probably be my least favorite, but it says a lot about the general quality of the game that a stage like "that" could be considered the worst - I think the mini boss sequence alone has given me more joy than some entire games as of late.

To me, the biggest advantage of the PS4/XBOX versions, recommended at the end of the video are the pink-colored enemy bullets. The metal-colored bullets in the original arcade version are at times incredibly hard to see, making for an experience that ends up completely ruining this otherwise s-tier stg for me.

This was a great vid. Just recently went back to play this on my Saturn... I always loved how this game makes you feel like a GENIUS when you get the items and rankings all synched up during a playthrough...

Great video! Garegga is one of the best. Even if it might seem scary from what a player hears about it, it's a great option once you feel like you need something different. The quote from Yagawa sounds weird out of context, but in the full interview he express in many ways how he's proud of the game and made sure to tune it to be as good as possible.

Great video. Just downloaded the saturn version for my Steam Deck. I always enjoyed shmups but I never paid this one much attention. Didn’t know there was such depth and uniqueness to this particular game.

got into Battle Garegga recently purely because of the soundtrack and visual aesthetic but watching this and learning about the absurd complexity in its mechanics that completely passed me by has been fun, I’ll be sure to keep a lot of this in mind whenever I play it again

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

Glad you've been enjoying it so far! It's definitely a game that gets more fun as you put more time and effort into it, so I certainly hope you stick with it

Just finished it for the first time (using MAME). It is my first shmup ever, took around 15 continues. Dear God, what a rush! Haven’t felt like that in years when playing a game. That freakin final boss man, just phenomenal. Previously my favorite games where old school CRPGs like Fallout 2 and Deus Ex. But this game changed something for sure. I guess i’m hooked for life now.

Tried for the first time at the arcade in Osaka recently and I had no idea there was this much depth to the game. I didn't even notice the point things were for chaining. I thought they were just random. Also didn't know about the rank system. Loved battle garegga mainly because it's just got great levels but now I hope this helps me actually 1cc the game, ty.

This was a beautiful exploration of shmup design, thank you! I got into Garegga recently too and really came to appreciate it. I feel like one of the things that made me engage with it was that it forced me to score for survival, all the way through. And that feeds into what you said about always having meaningful decisions to make. A classic for sure. Also, Gain ftw :)

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

No, thank you! I'm right there with you with the scoring for survival aspect, it always keeps me coming back. It's a style of play of been trying to achieve in other shmups as well between Garegga grinds, but none have done it for me quite like BG.

Great video, really interesting. I'd never even heard of this game

Absolutely lovely work, Luke! It is wonderful to see this video editorial after having watched you play these games and gather hardware piece by piece in The Bunker. I know how many hours went into that lone Alien Soldier clips! Haha!

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

Thank you Hygge!!! I'm glad all this expensive crap is finally turning into something people can publicly see haha, hopefully I'm able to get into more of a flow with my creative output soon 🙏🙏🙏

Man, thanks for making this video. What a treat! One thing you didn't touch on that I think is pretty unique to Garegga is the way the options work. Having to mash a button in order to swap formations can contribute to the game's frantic nature and is just really fun. The big-brained secret option formations are also really cool.

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

The options are a big thing I wish I included in my original script, but I could have gone on forever about the game and felt like I needed to draw the line somewhere LOL I'll absolutely include them in a potential commentary if I get good enough to clear the game in the future🙏

Great video! Garegga is a game that I can't help but revisit. I definitely didn't clock with it at first but once I actually got to grips with it I felt like a genius.

Regarding what you said about the game design intentionality of the rank system, there actually is a good reason for that: a lot of Garegga’s design philosophy is borrowed directly from Gun Frontier, a Taito shmup and Shinobu Yagawa’s favorite in the genre. Yagawa’s work with Raizing shares not only the complex rank systems but also the heavy emphasis on visual setpieces and detailed environments. It’s fair to assume that *both* this legitimate artistic inspiration and the desire for financial income drove the inclusion of the rank system; it’s just a great system for devs and players alike, which is why it tends to show up in a great deal of shmups even on PC. I’d also like to point out that while home console games don’t really use lives anymore, neither do shmups use them in their original form :p Modern extend systems function more like health does in something like an action roguelike or a 3d platformer- they just got to that point by removing checkpoints instead of giving the player infinite lives, and made up the difference with bombs and other survival mechanics (including continues).

Great vid Luke ❤ maybe it’s time to take a break from the Saturn version and dive in to that M2 port…

I really enjoyed this, and I'm glad you talked about how this design came from a kind of nasty place, whilst also so eloquently elucidating why the game is still so compelling in spite of, and even because of it. I think there can often be a tendency to romanticise arcade design as "purer", which the economic realities of the time don't bear out, really, but finding beauty intertwined with that ugliness is kind of a microcosm of what it can mean to appreciate art like this a lot of the time. We're all fighting against the material circumstances we're stuck in, whether we're making art or enjoying it. "Even though the ideal is high, I never give in..." or something like that... I've been trying to get into shmups more lately with G-Darius and others and have always meant to give Garegga a shot but I feel like this has given me a really good framework of appreciation for it. Great video!

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

Glad to hear you've been dipping your toes in the water! I don't think there's really a "bad" place to start so-to-speak, but put a gun to my head and I'd probably say G-Darius is one of the better ones. One of the most interesting things about the nasty origins of certain arcades trends is how little effect it ultimately has on the drive in players to improve at and tear apart games to their very core. Despite the walls that get in the way of mastery, if there's something appealing enough at the core of the experience, player's *will* push through to master what the game has on offer. It's also possible I just get a kick out of seeing people obsess over something so hard that they can knock it to dust with a mild gust of air, I dunno.

this is an amazing video, I heard that gun frontier, border down, and ibara carry this rank-controlling philosophy rather well

A great love letter to a masterpiece of a game! Well done m8! Just curious; What are your top 5 fave shmups of all time?

@RealLukeGirard

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much! I’ll admit I’m actually still pretty new to shmups - a few years back I got into them with a credit fed run of Ikaruga and really fell in love with ZeroRanger after that - so at this point I haven’t stretched my legs as much as I’d like (the only ones I’m remotely decent at are ZR and Battle Garegga haha) If I had to pick my 5 favorites rn, I’d probably say: 1. Battle Garegga 2. Progear 3. ZeroRanger 4. Ketsui 5. GG Aleste 3

not really related to the video itself but i wish more arcade type games gave you a ranking based on score its something so simple that goes a long way to make sure people actually want to go for high scores

Battle Garegga was always my favourite shmup to play through as a beginner because of the ranking system. Dying in other shmups often felt either like an unfair punishment (especially those were you just straight up lose one tier of powerups in spite of the game getting harder) or inconsequential from a beginners perspective (you lose some score, whatever). In Battle Garegga you get some breathing room through the ranking system but at the same time super exciting sections if you somehow prevail. Also knowing nothing about unlocking advanced powerups and seemingly getting awesome firepower at random made them feel really special instead of the same ol' weapon you always work towards in other shmups. I played hundreds of playthroughs of Battle Garegga without knowing nothing about the ranking system other than the game getting a little easier after a death and actually got somewhat good at it through sheer brute force because subconciously it inticed me to play more with its dynamic nature. I think this may have been the original goal of the devs instead of creating an enigma for shmup experts to dig their teeth into but of course, that's speculation. Of course playing Garegga as this more laidback, chill beginner shmup was only possible if you had the MAME rom or very, very rich parents ^^

The four horsemen of shmups : Battle Garegga Ketsui Dodonpachi DaiOujou Mushihimesama Futari

I always click on Garegga content, but rarely do I find smth of this quality. The only issue I have w/ it is that you seem to assume I can get an extend...

Plane go BURRRRRR

Great video. I'd appreciate the game more if I could see the fucking bullets though.

@MonochromeDisposition

7 ай бұрын

Hop on Rev.2016 🧐

@mariodoccia6129

7 ай бұрын

@@MonochromeDisposition I only have a PC. Just have to wait 10 years for PS4 emulation to catch up...

@MonochromeDisposition

7 ай бұрын

@@mariodoccia6129 😔

Be shure to rotate your big ass crt by 90* to enjoy arcade Mode.

you don't really need to score to get extends in most shmups as pure survival is usually enough to meet thresholds. garegga only encourages scoring cause it doesn't cap score extends unlike most other games. scoring is generally a bad idea as it makes the early game harder which will cause more resets. being in early game jail is mentally taxing and you'll also end up seeing the later stages less often which means less opportunities to practice, so by the time you do reach the late game, you won't be prepared and you'll get your ass kicked. i recommend beginners to ignore scoring and just focus on the 1cc, then they can think about if they wanna score or not speaking of new players idk if i'd show garegga to them cause it's hard lol. i'm aware the m2 port has a super easy mode but they're too easy to really teach you anything and the gap between that and arcade mode is enormous so they won't transition well, if at all. something like mushi original would be a better start i've always thought garegga was overrated, at least from a scoring perspective. the mechanics are cool and all but unfortunately it has milking which i really don't like. i like my shmups to be short and sweet, but a score run of this game takes like 50 minutes which is way too long. i really don't get how anyone can call this the greatest shmup of all time when you have to shoot boss 1 for two minutes every credit

@jgrocketpup

7 ай бұрын

Agreed on early-game jail; the M2 port does help with those modes like you said. Idunno about not showing new players, though, because a lot of stuff gets folks into a game. If anyone's into old underground EDM, it's a trip to hear what's up in this game's soundtrack, for one weird example. And then hey, sometimes that's all it takes to get immersed in it and start diving deep... who's to say? *Someone* can call this the greatest shmup of all time for sure. Not you, but there are folks who loooove a Yagawa game and can't get enough of the rank systems he foists upon innocent souls (but be careful, they might pick Batrider anyway). heck, I'm terrible at Raycrisis and I just keep playing it; the music and visuals pull me right back in.

@ASE-PRL

7 ай бұрын

god bamd you are the most annoying shmup player on god

@boghogSTG

7 ай бұрын

Here for the iconic "milking sucks" Bamd post #5425

@cps1247

7 ай бұрын

@@boghogSTG should have played battle bakraid for score then, high scoring replays takes about as much as survival clears too

@soratheorangejuicemascot5809

7 ай бұрын

Based take.