Deep dive into BFRPG, about your BFRPG game stuff, good old school gaming talk, awesome! Nobody wanting to watch this? You kidding me? Lol 👍🙂 Good one again, TBE! 👊 More please.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

There will be much more. I am going to be on this topic for a few weeks I think. Haha. Thanks Ray!

Holy crap. I hadn’t realized that the art site existed. 👏👏

Bought and ran BFRPG 2 or 3 summers ago and introduced 3 people to the game with it. Everyone loved it. All these clones are compatible because they're all built off B/E or 1e or some combo thereof. As someone who started with thAC0 I understand why so many optional rules opt for ascending AC. For some reason a lot of new comers have a hard time wrapping their head around descending ac, ascending seems to make more sense to everyone. Imo all the b/e 1e and 2e ad&d rules are compatible because they just build and expand because they are legitimate versions of the same ruleset. 3e is where the break starts. And 4 e is a completely different game entirely. But really the rules youre discussing are essentially all the same rules set with minor tweaks and homebrew rules peppered on top. I stopped buying OSR clones once I admitted this to myself. Lol. I said: Self, why do you keep buying the same rules set by different authors? My answer to myself was...good question. Obviously choose one with the AC descending/ascending as per your preference. And with the layout/art you prefer. But at the end of the day theyre all the same rules. Saying I play Old school essential is the same as saying you play 1e. Playing white box is the same as playing b/e. As I said I own quite a few of these rules editions and when it comes down to it...why? When the actual version of these originals are available as originally written? Why not just play 1e? Why play the clones? I mean. Short of being a collector or wanting to study the differences between them all. I think there may be something wrong, mentally, with people like us that just keep buying alternate print versions of the same game. Lol. 🤣 Great video either way tho. Having said all that, is that rules cyclopedia the POD version? Hows the quality?

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

My RC is POD and it is quality. Really nice. I agree that a lot of OSR games are the same and people are buying the same game a bunch of times. I think setting books are where the future of the OSR should focus. I'm working on a project very slowly where I'm making a setting book for OSR games that will be Aztecs and Spaniards during the conquest of Cortes. I'm only mentioning rules where they need to be changed for the setting. But everything else will be info for the setting and how to run it.

Love BF . Its as complex or as simple as you want it. When I wanted to teach my Daughter to play some RPG, we did Basic Fantasy and turned out great.

The problem with OSR games is there are SOOO many of them to pick from. Many of them are free PDF's, too. Basic Fantasy is one of the best ones of that bunch. Its also one of the four OSR games I've bought in dead tree paper format. I love the game, though with so many other games to pick from it can get lost in the noise. Even I have already played two other fantasy OSR style games before playing Basic Fantasy. I prefer rules lite. FYI, the other three OSR are White Star Galaxy Edition, Star Adventurer by RPG Pundit, and Dungeons and Delvers: Dice Pool edition. Just in the name of honesty, I did give away my White Star RPG, since Star Adventurer seems better to me, so I didn't need both.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I have star adventurer. I'd love to run it but I think I'll do a classic traveller game before that. It's solid it seems though. Yeah I think there are so many clones I think the thing I'm interested in more than anything is setting books.

Another wonderful vid. Keep smiling coming 😁

I found your website. The reading D&D basic rules. We enjoyed it very much. My grandson and granddaughters, think they like the game as well. I’m in my 70s, and I’ve never really got over playing.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Rad! Are you using this clone? Basic fantasy?

@phillipmerritt1428

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBasicExpert I have ordered the basic book in several of the other extensions.

@phillipmerritt1428

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your reply I’m trying to find you on Patreon but I’m having trouble it’s it keeps saying you don’t exist. What is your Patreon address?

It's been a while since I've read my BFRPG softcover, gotta admit that hard cover looks pretty sweet though. Also appreciated your breakdown of how easy it is to cross the streams with most OSR products 👍

Nice review. I have a copy that I picked up from an auction as an impulse buy. I skimmed it. I think I'm going to have to really read it. Thanks!

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

More to come. Next monday will be character creation.

I've been thinking of picking this game up. The three books for rules, monsters, and equipment are very reasonable priced. This review will help me make up my mind.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

For sure. And don't forget that the Pdf s are free from everything on the BFRPG site.

Great review and a good pitch for BFRPG

I like how there's a number to hit body armor or hand that is found in D100 Dungeon. I have the books you've shown and they work ok but the 4 books and mapping game of D100 Dungeon is really awesome.

If I ever run a D&D game again, I'll be using BFRPG rules

My favorite system

I think BFRPG is the best of the OSR games, as it is closest to D&D’s Moldvay Basic and Cook Expert, which I like.

Forgot to say that I also really love to use cross-compatible old school stuff as well (Rules Cyclopedia, 1st edition/ 2nd edition Adv., Original Monster Manual and Monster Manual II, Fiend Folio, etc...)! 👊 Have you found or watched some old videos showing how Frank Mentzer ran BECMI at the table with using a 1d6 to determine doing anything, including "Skills", etc....? There's also a video series out there utilizing 3d6 - 5d6 to resolve "Skills" checks (roll under, and number of dice based upon difficulty). Thoughts?

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't seen any of that but that sounds interesting. I've also heard of people using 1d6s for moderate tasks and d8s, d10s, d12s, and d20s for increased difficulty. A success is on a 1 and the character can add their relevant skill modifier to the range. So if the ability score has a +2 they succeed on a 1 to 3 on whatever dice they are rolling. That's what I love about these Old School games. There is so many different solutions to situations.

@retrodmray

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBasicExpert Yep....that's also another cool way to accomplish that stuff that I've heard of. Like you say, old school simple systems like this make it really easy to tweak it as you want. More complex, spell-it-all-out-for-you systems are balanced in a totally different way and designed in a very different hands-off-as-a-DM/GM sorta way. They can also be fun, but definitely WAY harder to do this with for sure.

@grumpygrognard7292

2 жыл бұрын

I've looked at using 3d6 vs d20 roll under (or equal to or under). I don't like the way a 3d6 skews the probabilities to the average. It makes it nearly impossible for an 18 ability score to fail. At least with a d20 an 18 still has a chance of 10%(or 15% if under) to fail. With 3d6 (under) it is only a 1 in 216. That half a percent!

@retrodmray

2 жыл бұрын

@@grumpygrognard7292 This is correct according to the math, but the feel of it at the table just kinda makes it different enough as to be a unique twist for us sometimes. Just like in 2nd Edition with NWP's. If you had an 18 in the stat on a NWP that had a roll of stat +1, you only ever failed on nat 20 without mods too. But, you're very right about the math on the d6's idea.

I see that Dream Theater shirt peaking out from under the flanel. "Scenes from a Memory" is one of my favorite albums of all time. Good choice.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Yep been a fan of theirs for the last 22 years now. I've seen them live a bunch and got to meet then once with A meet and greet. In 2006 I think. One of my all time favorite bands.

@KraftyMattKraft

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBasicExpert I met them as well! It was in their Scenes from a Memory 20th anniversary tour. They came to my hometown and my buddy and I got stageside tickets! Even got a pick from Petrucci!

Chris chatted with me a few months ago. I mentioned that an old school game needs to keep descending AC, he said he's bad at math and didn't like descending AC because of it. I have dove into BFRPG as much as I'd like, but I hope to... soon.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

That makes sense. Chris has mentioned that he made BFRPG to be what he wanted. It's not a direct clone but what Chris would want B/X to be. You can be sneaky and slowly transition from BFRPG to the RC which I have thought about doing for my group.

@grumpygrognard7292

2 жыл бұрын

Here's the math with descending: roll d20, add attack bonus, add any other bonuses (STR, magic, situational), add target's AC. If total is 20 or more, it hits. Still pretty simple.

@erikmartin4996

2 жыл бұрын

@@grumpygrognard7292 too much addition. Did you remember to add this? Did you forget that? Combat should be extremely fast

@grumpygrognard7292

2 жыл бұрын

@@erikmartin4996 I would think the only things you might forget to add would be the STR bonuses, magic bonuses, circumstance bonuses, etc, and those are also added in when using ascending AC. The addition of the target's AC is the least of complications. Also, combat doesn't have to be fast if it is part of the fun of the game. And it is.

@erikmartin4996

2 жыл бұрын

@@grumpygrognard7292 no one will ever play that way except your table

The main questions to think about in my view are 1. Is price important? 2. Do you prefer race-as-class? 3. Group initiative or Individual initiative? 4. Is layout important? 5. Is art important? 6. Does nostalgia matter? These are really the main differences between OSE (BX) and BFRPG. Here are my answers 1. No, but BFRPG's price point is the clear winner. 2. Yes. I personally prefer race-as-class. 3. Group initiative 4. OSE's layout is way better. No comparison. 5. OSE for sure 6. BX has a certain vibe to it which I do prefer. But that being said you can't wrong with either. Both allow you to tweak to your hearts content.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I have OSE Advanced but I think, personally, I would just run a pure BECMI/Rules Cyclopedia (or AD&D 1e) game before OSE advanced just because I own them and can. Go to the source of it I guess. OSE is boss at layout though.

@estelaplateada4

2 жыл бұрын

Under point 1 I would also attach geographical availability of physical copies. In my corner of the world I had to go through several hoops and bite a sizeable shipping & customs cost to get my hands on OSE. Amazon (for better or worse) is much more prevalent.

In Basic D&D, the chance for a normal man or hireling To Hit Armor Class 0 (THACO) is 20. Therefore the ascending armor class of this is 20. This can be written as AC 0 [20]. Whatever the old school armor class is, the total between descending and ascending must equal 20. So, chain mail would be listed as 5 [15]. For those DMs that can do 2nd grade math in their heads it is just easy to write AC 7 and know you need a 13 to hit. Have the players add in any bonuses to reach 13.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't find thac0 very hard to do. I fine with either the "modern way" or the old way.

I like BFRPG. I like Chris Gonnerman's perspective on a lot of topics. If you like OD&D, Delving Deeper is also a great resource. Like you, I am a little disappointed that a lot of the OSR products go with ascending AC. I never understood why the switch was necessary. The calculation is still very easy using descending. I think it's a "6 of one /half-dozen of the other" situation.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I don't find descending AC any more difficult than ascending. But I know a lot of modern players are still scared for whatever reason so I think the omission was an accessibility thing. The nice thing is that I can just use the RC and THAC0 from that if I want to use DAC. I have thought about doing that in my BFRPG a lot if my players are up for it.

Have you tried Castle and Crusaders? Would love to have your impression of it versus BFRPG. The siege system is similar to what you seem to like regarding the skill system you are using. Cheers!

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

The Troll Lords game? I have the PHB but have not thumbed through it yet. C&C is one my long list of things to get to and review.

Basic Fantasy looks to be the biggest bang for your buck, Free/Print cost. I like White box (small book) but it lacks a few things. I am currently liking Adventurer Conquer King. I used to use anything that I could get my hands on to add in, Palladium Fantasy, Arcanum, Roleaids, Middle earth rpg. File off the serial numbers.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I like to do that too. I've wanted to check out ACK. I'll get around to that one eventually. Same with Castles and Crusades.

Awesome stuff you're doing! Was the Cyclopedia written "better" than the original BECMI rule sets? Or just reformatted into one book?

@TheBasicExpert

Жыл бұрын

I think it is organized a bit better and little easier to understand from my perspective. But that is me. Some things are little different from the boxed sets. It isn't just copy and pasted into a new book.

Great video! Any system close to B/X is a winner imo! It lets you tap into and utilize the vast pool of knowledge and wisdom from years and years of D&D gaming in the most simple way. I also like the one-book-approach, however, having backed the OSE boxed set when it first came out, the format of the tome seperated into specific books is really growing on me and I find myself using them when i prep, instead of the complete tome. It's just easier for me to find the exact info i need when the book has a lower page count. Also A5 can be a blessing with tight table space! Just discovered (thanks to you) the free modules on Basic Fantasy's home page. Have you run any of them? If so, a video on this would be a much appreciated topic!

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I get both sides of multiple books. For instance I like in 1e how the PHB has very minimal information really. The essentials for players. It builds mystery and helps with that for players giving the DM a lot of stuff to reveal through play. The drawback being you have to buy a lot of books haha.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

And yes I'll probably go over chaotic caves and how I ran that as that is the adventure book I used to start a sandbox game for my players.

@yvindheilo229

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBasicExpert I guess that is the biggest drawback (for me) with an A5 tome; too much flipping pages and difficulty of finding exact page. A tome is better suited for A4. I also own the Rules Cyclopedia. What a great book. Really looking foreward to hearing your experiences with the war machine system. Are you aware of the Test of the Warlords module? It's available as print on demand just recently.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

@@yvindheilo229 oh I am not aware of that but will be adding that to my wishlist then.

At the moment, my game of choice is currently Pathfinder 2e, however, it might change to Holy Lands RPG once I start playing it.

Every youtuber in the OSR sphere speaks about hoy easy conversion among systems is....but rarely anyone in the OSR really addresses system to system conversion reference material. As much compatible as they are, there are differences (ac, money scale, HP scale....). I think there is room for this content/product: actual system to system conversion guidance, with its specifics and unbalance warnings. It is true that ultimately it can be DIY matter...but random encounters or dungeon building can be DIY, and people buy/look for material on that.... Conversions could be the same...

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Well hopefully in the videos to come I'll cover how I'm converting stuff back and forth. AC is one thing though. It depends on what the OSR system counts as unarmored. BFRPG uses ascending AC and counts 11 as unarmored. Some old school editions are descending and count 9, some count 10. It all depends. I plan on detailing as much as I can about how I'm drawing from different resources.

i play this light "DnD" with my co workers in my nightshift i have a campagne running with 14 people now

Are those EXTRA LARGE copies of BFRPG and the Rules Cyclopedia? My POD copies seem tiny compared to those!

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I wish! I think that's the effect of my camera.

@ShadowReaver573

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBasicExpert I have heard that the camera adds on pounds, didn't expect it to do that with books 😂

Where is the video on the GM binder?

@TheBasicExpert

Жыл бұрын

Still need to make that.

I like DCC and OSE.

@TheBasicExpert

Жыл бұрын

Both solid games.

Nice dream theater shirt

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. They are one of my favorites obviously.

BFRPG is my favorite knockoff. Really it's all just old wine poured into new bottles. The heartbreakers fall into two broad categories; as close a copy as possible without getting sued and based-on-a-true story (aka the bones of D&D with whatever house rules the author thinks is an "improvement"). OSE does a good job of copying D&D very closely for the most part, but with good organization and beautiful art. I played a short OSE campaign and it worked fine but IMO is inferior to the Rules Cyclopedia. BFRPG does a pretty good job of conveying not the rules as written but how we all actually played the game circa 1981, with a couple modern spiffs. As Chris Gonnerman said, we'd have probably used ascending AC right from the beginning if any of us had thought of it!🙈🙉🙊 The OSR is an amusing phenomenon. In a way it's like the SCA- modern geeks idea of how the medieval era should have been. Likewise OSR seems to a young guy's parody/impression of what it must have been like back in the day.😂 In my own playing I have to say "Don't call it a comeback!" 'cause it never went away. FWIW, the best of the clones IMOHO is OSRIC. In a real sense, OSRIC is the only clone to actually be BETTER than the game it copies. It incorporates a decade + of errata and vastly better organization. I'm currently playing three campaigns, a BFRPG game, a 1e game and a 2e game. In the 1e game a couple guys bought the new reprints and I take three original copies of the PHB for the guys to use. But if I had my way we'd put the 1e books on the shelf and just run out of OSRIC. When the 1e and OSRIC books disagree the OSRIC version is usually the correct one (based on errata provided by the guys that wrote the originals) the few changes made were for the better (like ditching the idiotic monk class). If OSRIC included UA material I'd vacuum seal my 1e books and take 'em all to my storage unit.

@TheBasicExpert

2 жыл бұрын

I really like OSRIC as well. I've sort of slowly reading that and 1e side by side and it's kind of helped me understand the high gygaxian haha.

I’m fascinated by people who like old school games because their mechanics are clunky. I played those games in the 80s and early 90s, and I don’t have any nostalgia about the mechanics. I prefer their focus on exploration and puzzle-solving over combat and character uniqueness, but I want a d20 roll-high system for ease and consistency.

Dude doesn’t start actual subject until 3:11 btw

Good video and loved the semi shout-out to rpgpundit.