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@alejbr4

4 ай бұрын

sox fan here, last yr every here in chicago was saying he was going to need surgery before he was traded. You could tell when everything was going wrong for him....had issues going back to aug of 2021

trevor bauer never got TJ, wonder if he's onto something with his weird-ass warm up routines

@YouTubeHandlesAreStupid

4 ай бұрын

I've said for years that they're not weird, they're just in-depth. So far, they've delivered the results....... ignore the sample size...

@TysonHook-22-

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely, also I wonder what the tommy john surgery rate is like for Japanese pitchers... Bauer has talked about how MLB clubs tend to have a much more general weight lifting stength training type of routines, whereas in Japan they do much more isolated muscle drills, kinda a combination of yoga and weight training. in on of his first vlogs with his new team in mexico, he talks about pitcher related injuries and his thoughts on how the micro managing of pitchers has such a grave effect on overall development, he mentions pitchers having so many trainers in there ears telling them different things its hard for a pitcher not to become hyper focused on every inch of there mechanics from there glove position, wrist, arm, legs, feet etc etc... rather then having more of a natural throw focused on dropping heaters across the plate... there worried about all these minor details in there mechanics... and when you think about it, it makes sense, it likely leads to more stress, tenseness and stiffness, a kindve robotic-ness to pitchers that cant be good for them in the long run. I found it interesting hearing him talk about how he thinks pitchers could learn a little something from infielders, they dont think and over anaylize every aspect of there throw they just get the ball and get it on target as quick as possible... he thinks doing infielder type of throwing drills, can actually help a pitcher maintain a more natural free flowing type of throwing mechanics and kinda aid in the explosiveness of your throw well still of course aiding accuracy... he mentioned guys he knew that were position players turned pitchers and some of the hardest and best throwing they did was early on before they had various trainers dissect threre mechanics to the 9th degree. When Bauer finally ends his playing career im quite interested to see if he will become a pitching coach for any teams mlb or internationally, he undoubtly has a wealth of knowledge having pitched at an elite level himself and played in various international leagues, I think he could put together some amazing developmental routines for pitchers.

@wranglerman270

4 ай бұрын

That’s interesting considering how much Bauer puts into analytics of his mechanics and finding ways to increase his spin rates. Bauer doesn’t really fit the commissioner’s narrative at all, so they’ll pretend he doesn’t exist.

@michaelconner9796

4 ай бұрын

@@TysonHook-22- According to Baseball doesn't exist (they did a massive video about Japanese baseball), Japanese pitchers do not get hurt near as often as American pitchers. Like 300% less or something crazy. Their pitchers are throwing 100+ pitches per day in practice as well in developmental years. Throwing a ball doesn't hurt you, throwing a ball while injured does.

Halfway through my senior year of highschool, I had extreme pain in my elbow at ALL times. Got an MRI done and I had micro-tears in the ligament of my elbow as I was turning 18. Pitching year round between spring, summer, and winter with little time off while still growing into your body and not having fully developed muscle to protect and support my ligament is what caused it. A new emphasis on spin rates, throwing from a 3/4 arm slot and focusing on throwing as hard as possible ended my 13 years of baseball. This is coming from someone that was only a decent enough starting pitcher to make a Junior College's starting rotation as well... I can only imagine how bad it is for kids that have potential to play at a higher level and put in the work to reach those levels. Every tendon only has so many bullets in the chamber at 100% effort... I spent all mine before I could even get to see a college mound.

@sixtynine2856

4 ай бұрын

Is the juice worth the squeeze (trying to make it big)?

@Cipher6i8

4 ай бұрын

I’m so sorry that happened to you. I was a pitcher and catcher during my time playing baseball and it was the exact same. Pony league from Frebruary-May, all stars through end of June, and travel ball going as late as September before fall season for Pony again. I partially tore my biceps tendon Junior year of high school and realistically that might’ve saved my elbow, as I’m 23 and still get pain in it from working out but it’s manageable. Coaches were always aiming for max velo and pushing us to throw curveballs at 13. It’s sickening, and it’s worse now.

@sixtynine2856

4 ай бұрын

@@Cipher6i8 Any regrets?

@robertgordon7983

4 ай бұрын

That sucks dude and I’m sorry that happened but that last statement is just not true. Tendons and ligaments adapt to the stresses you put on them but that adaptation takes time and if you continually keep pushing to get better without letting the tissues adjust to the current level that’s where the injuries occur

@Ethan_Coble

4 ай бұрын

​@@robertgordon7983 It's definitely more of an adage or a hyperbolic analogy... There is absolutely more nuance to it that "Your arm has X amount of pitches in it"... I Just added it in because it does feel like it has some general grounding in truth, in that, the more and more you throw at 100%, the more likely you'll be to end up with arm problems. But I see what you mean, for sure.

Kids up until the 90s used to throw constantly. The more you throw the more strength they gain. When guys threw 250+ innings a year while topping out at 91 mph you rarely heard of major injuries like this. Imo It's a combination of a lot of different factors. Chasing spin rate and velocity are the major factor. Almost no one uses it like Justin Verlander did early in his career where he'd start a game at 92-94 and throw his last pitch at 98-100. Scouts and GMs aren't impressed by 93 and a 3 ERA with 4ks per 9. They're impressed by 99 and a 4 ERA and 10ks per 9.

@TheGr8SageSama

4 ай бұрын

And that’s a same paying all that money just not to have fielder work all season and then in big moments the pitch blows his arm and the team can’t make big plays to save the season/ playoffs

Didn't Tyler Glasnow get elbow surgery 2 years ago where he put an artificial sheath over his UCL so that it will prevent him needing Tommy John surgery?

@damoneboyd9945

4 ай бұрын

Yes he did

@refusetolose05

4 ай бұрын

Supposedly what they used was called an " internal brace". It's used on ACL injuries and apparently holds extremely well in that application Edit : for correction of eternal to internal

@robertgordon7983

4 ай бұрын

Yes it’s called a internal brace and I just had one done a month ago. It’s more like a really strong piece of tape they attach to the bones in ur forearm and upper arm where the ligament attaches. Really new tech that could potentially be a game changer for a large majority of elbow injuries.

@refusetolose05

4 ай бұрын

@@robertgordon7983 interesting. I wonder if that's what Othani got as well? He wouldn't call it Tommy John surgery and said it was a new procedure.

@refusetolose05

4 ай бұрын

@@robertgordon7983 how is the recovery coming? Is this your only UCL repair?

Other than the pitch clock there is another factor that cause pitchers to get hurt, the slicker and larger MLB ball. This cause pitchers to have harder grip compared to the NPB ball which is smaller, naturally pre-tacked, and easier to grip. No wonder the elbow epidemic in Japan is rare. Unfortunately since the MLB owns Rawlings, the Commissioner can control what he wants, even with MLBPA’s demand.

@josephshrike3972

4 ай бұрын

This is probably a much bigger issue than the pitch clock. When you're having to change your entire grip and make it much harder, it directly impacts the tendons up and down your arm. Sticky stuff got out of control with stuff like Spider Tack but if sunscreen, sweat and rosin can reduce TJ surgery, I see zero issues.

@americastuff5147

4 ай бұрын

People also just throw too hard, but the MLB seriously needs to copy Japan

@fernandoposada5440

4 ай бұрын

People throw too hard because analytics focuses primarily on power

@cyclopsvision6370

4 ай бұрын

what do you mean larger ball? did the size of the MLB ball change?

To show how much baseball has changed in the last 30 years, I saw a clip of a bluejays a's game in 1992 I think and they were talking about how oakland had a power pitcher who threw maxed out at 92 miles an hour lol

@FGPlus

4 ай бұрын

Exactly. 10 years ago 95+ was throwing gas.

@civil_leuthie

4 ай бұрын

Pitches lose about 6 MPH due to air resistance on their trip to the plate. Early 2000s, radar guns got better at reading the ball directly out of the hand. Now, they use Statcast and it's multiple cameras and analysis software, so you're seeing the max speed out of the hand. In 1992, the speed was from somewhere in the middle of the throw path, so 92 MPH measured in 1992 would be 96 to 98 MPH measured today.

@FGPlus

4 ай бұрын

@@civil_leuthie proof or it didn't happen

Trevor Bauer is out there ???? Wtf he was cleared and is he really that untouchable?? One of the best pitchers in the game can't even get a call what a shame. Bring back Trevor and all of you should agree 💯

@davidriedy5977

4 ай бұрын

shouldn't be untouchable, I don't get it

@ihatesnowflakes2537

4 ай бұрын

Nah he's too risky imagine paying him over 100m for him to get into another assault allegation, another attack against mlb weather he was right or wrong it don't matter no one gonna risk paying him unless he cones in for dirt cheap like 7m or less a year and put up numbers which also isn't guerenteed he's been away from mlb for too long yall just simping

@j.d.panalagao2167

4 ай бұрын

Creeper Manfred won't allow it.

@TheSymbiot3Venom

4 ай бұрын

That’s what happens when you continuously make and enemy of your boss 😅

@davidriedy5977

4 ай бұрын

@@ihatesnowflakes2537 I'm pretty sure he's been on record saying he would play for the minimum, he didn't care, just wants to play. Very low risk for the team that signs him. If he does have other accusations brought against them the team can cut bait at no detriment to them

Nolan Ryan through over 5300 innings and never had Tommy John. It has nothing to do with innings being thrown. Jacob Degrom falls apart just getting out of the team bus. It's mechanics, improper strength training when young and more than likely supplements that are degrading the ligaments/tendons. I had major issues with my limbs after I started taking large amounts of protein with creatine; nothing more than what was "recommended", but I don't trust the stuff. The argument that it's a natural human compound is stupid. The amount that people are consuming is way above what we normally would get through a healthy diet.

@snappyone

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, Nolan said that he thought pitchers today don't throw enough innings, not too many. There's also a vid with Pedro Martinez talking about the bad mechanics behind what he thinks is causing these elbow injuries. Also Brent from the Topvelocity yt channel has some ideas about it too.

@DionysusAlS

4 ай бұрын

It's also these exotic pitches with extremely high spin rates that put increased torque on the elbow. Mastering these pitches makes a pitcher great, but it comes at a steep price.

@deelowe3

4 ай бұрын

Its the focus on spin rate.

@Calico997

4 ай бұрын

both of you have good points but i disagree simply because throwing a baseball is not a natural motion like throwing motion​@@snappyone

@DanielBenavides-uh4ze

4 ай бұрын

Ryan was on roids, drug test started way after the retired, and he is not the only one, obviously

In Yamamoto's contract they actually have a clause where if he's injured for more than a certain number of days in a year it extends the contract.

@BendyDH

4 ай бұрын

That's pretty wild, so the Dodgers get 12yrs out of him no matter how long it takes for him to play out 12yrs worth of games.

@refusetolose05

4 ай бұрын

@BendyDH with Yamamoto being the highest paid pitcher ever and never having thrown a pitch in MLB, you'd expect protections in a contract like this.

@CardsFan6969

4 ай бұрын

John Lackey years ago had a contract where if he missed a year, it tacked a club option onto the contract where he got paid the league minimum. He ended up getting Tommy John and missed a season which activated that option and when he got traded to the Cardinals, they exercised that option and he was paid the league minimum despite being very good. I believe the Cardinals ended up giving him more money via incentives and out of goodwill, but for the most part people thought it was outrageous that he made the league minimum. Why though? Why is it outrageous for a player to make up a season he completely lost out on due to injury? I think more contracts should have that clause, but apparently the player's union hates it.

You get Tommy John Surgery! And you get Tommy John Surgery! And you get Tommy John Surgery! Everybody gets Tommy John Surgery!!!!!

@Redpoppy80

4 ай бұрын

This is the worst Oprah giveaway.

@americastuff5147

4 ай бұрын

Let’s all say: Welcome to the TJ Party!

It’s very simple. Don’t throw as hard. Change speeds. Your are will be stronger. Mike Messina had a 90-92 mph fastball and a change up that was 80 mph. He pitched for many many years. So many others from his era did and before. Knowing your teams best pitchers will one day need surgery makes watching baseball unnecessary.

@RealCGH

4 ай бұрын

I mean Shane Bieber had similar velo and still get alot of injuries. But yes it'll help

@deelowe3

4 ай бұрын

Curveballs are whats more dagerous because of the strain it puts on the elbow.

@falcon1378

4 ай бұрын

It’s not the Velo aspect, it’s the spin aspect. This is the stuff Trevor Bauer has been talking about for a while. If it was just Velo, we’d be seeing a lot more rotator cuff tan TJ. Guys started to realize the best way to be effective was to add more spin.

@gradyjones7017

4 ай бұрын

@@deelowe3curveballs are actually less damaging that fastballs, because you don’t throw them as hard

@andrewbloom7694

4 ай бұрын

Pitchers who throw 92 get *annihilated* now though, thats why they have to do it. Only the real greats like Grienke can make any sort of career out of it. The thing is i dont really know how to fix it. Ask the batters nicely to please not hit slower pitches? Move the mound forward? Theres really no good option.

Also notice the wind up and stretches in the past.They had a momentum to them.The body was used more to leverage the strength rather from the arm.

Mike Marshall earned a doctorate in kinesiology and used himself as his first subject in testing his theories. He still holds the record for most games in a season (106) and consecutive games pitched in (13), and never developed pitching arm problems. He offered a course in using one's body in such a way that pitchers would never develop pitching arm problems, but baseball has never shown any interest in adopting his methods, preferring instead to allow pitchers to ruin their arms.

@EthanNiedorowski

4 ай бұрын

Watching him explain the draw back of a pitcher an how he rotates or rotated an how that allows transfer of power down body into ball instead of whipping arm back and snapping forward makes to much sense in his words that is ripping your elbow a bit each time I believe the clip is on mlb network I’ll try to find it to paste but it’s very interesting He used Timmy Jim as example befor he was hurt he called his career out to t 106 games in a 162 game season might be the most underrated record of all time An he was awesome the whole time Huge ashhole but amazing

@furiogiunta7886

4 ай бұрын

I went to his pitching clinic as a kid. I never fully adopted his pitching method, it was quite awkward to pitch the way he wanted. I did incorporate a few of his principals into my pitching motion though. I never had any arm trouble pitching through high school. I know a few pitchers using his method made the majors in the early 2000's but none really succeeded as much in their careers as he did.

The emphasis on max effort for SP's and overuse at the amateur level will continue this trend.

Pitching is about speed change, creating pattern to surprise the hitter when you break it, study tendency to exploit them and such. You could throwm 90poo and still do all this. Pretty sure Maddux would be still as dominant now days. Hitter adjust to 100 mile per hour, give them 1-2 more year of 100ish, it will be the same as 90-95s for them. If you dont mess with timing, throwing hard worth nothing and make no sense.

I think we're forgetting that there have been many pitchers over the years like Masahiro Tanaka for example that pitched through it didn't get Tommy John and went on to very successful careers. I think it's the contracts that affect it a lot. Then there are the ones that come back from Tommy John and are absolute crap after. I think it's less about more people getting it and more about teams being skittish and giving the hook fast as they can

Really makes you appreciate what Nolan Ryan did for so many years

Red Sox getting violated the hardest by injuries this year

@L9ne_Wlf

4 ай бұрын

Seeing Trevor Story with the elbow sling at the home opener was terrible.

@nbeutler1134

4 ай бұрын

@@L9ne_Wlfas a Sox fan, I’m on suicide watch atm

Koufax, Gibson, Drysdale, Carlton, Seaver, Ryan, Maddux, Kaat, Hooten, Sutton, Palmer, Blue, Hunter, Jenkins, Blyleven, Clemens, Hershiser. Dont recall them having TJ...

You have to accept it because it isn't going to change. These guys know that it's the risk that they take, and there will always be guys willing to take that risk to get to the majors. It is what it is.

Modern sports are pushing the boundaries of what the human body can handle. Ligaments are the one limiting factor you cannot change

Congrats on 150k

@iTalkStudios

4 ай бұрын

Thank you!!

It's said that you can't really strengthen tendons like you can muscles. If that's true, then all of these pitchers that rely on high spin rates are ticking time bombs. I see teams drafting more Kyle Hendricks and Greg Maddux types who use finesse and are more cerebral.

I cant believe that mlb and players dont understand how to avoid injuries and why theyre on the rise. Is for one thing and very simple. They do not train for withstanding more throws they inly train for increasing velocity. Tell me which pitcher in the offseason goes all the way to 100-150 pitch bullpens? Nobody absolutely nobody. The only way to be prepared to throw 100 throws in the game is that in the offseason you slowly progress all the way to 100-150 throws. You might call me crazy to encourage offseason bullpens of 100-150 throws but its even crazier to think that 30 pitch bullpens will prepare you to throw 100 in the game. That is foolish nonsense. The arm doesnt know how many throws is doing it only knows stress. If youve only throwing 30 pitch bullpens and the increase it all of the sudden to 100 youre increasing more than double of what your body can handle. Now if you slowly progress in the offseason to 150 throws your body and arm are going to get use to that stress. But pitchers from today dont give their body the opportunity to get use to the stress. Sometimes you only need logic and common sense to solve a problem. Its ironic that sometimes common sense is the less common sense the human uses.

I was a pitcher and catcher during my time playing baseball and it was the exact same. Pony league from Frebruary-May, all stars through end of June, and travel ball going as late as September before fall season for Pony again. I partially tore my biceps tendon Junior year of high school and realistically that might’ve saved my elbow, as I’m 23 and still get pain in it from working out but it’s manageable. Coaches were always aiming for max velo and pushing us to throw curveballs at 13. It’s sickening, and it’s worse now.

We need to bring back Greg Maddux mentality when pitching. It's not a speed throwing contest, it's a pitching contest. Too many pitchers are trying to throw too hard.

It’s not velocity, plenty of position players can throw 95+. It’s not volume either or catchers would be having surgery all the time too. It’s volume and velocity. But reducing innings may not reduce volume because the throwing programs during rest days are filled with lots of reps. TJ is so common and successful I don’t see MLB changing anything. Injury time is baked into the cake of the contract.

I almost agree with the take in this video. The only problem is that we know MLB pitchers don't have to get so many elbow injuries because not all that long ago there weren't as many. I'm no pitcher, so I don't know if its mechanics or what, but there was something pitchers 15 or 20 years ago either did or didn't do that kept their elbows in one piece.

@kylehart8829

4 ай бұрын

What they did differently was fastball velocity. Fastballs are brutal to throw and the faster the pitch the more damage it does.

My dad was a pitcher and was offered a pro contract. He turned it down because he didn't want to move to Florida. It was the '50' threw his arm out a few years later. Wouldn't let me pitch even though I could throw a curve, drop a rising fast ball.

How long must this continue?

@elr2141979

4 ай бұрын

It really comes down to baseball analytics the focus of pitchers overpowering hitters. when you look back at how hard and how often these pitchers were throwing this 15-20 years ago it wasn't even a thing back then.

It’s the sliders and cutters with emphasis on spin and velocity, as well as the throw hard > mechanics teaching. Pedro Martinez said he wouldn’t be letting kids throw cutters until a certain point. No kid should be trying to rip a slider or cutter until probably college

A solution, possibly.. Limit Starters to 5 innings, or even 4 for a win and QS, and change the qualifying parameters, then follow them with warmed up long relievers either left or right handed for 2 or 3 innings before handing over to the set up and closer.. Any thoughts on that...?

The one thing I will say that I've noticed over the last 10-15 years or so, is these injuries and our discourse on them, tend to be clustered towards the beginning of the season. During spring training and the first month and change its when its as it worse and you dont see as many major elbow injuries as the season goes along.

I saw an interview were they asked ex marlins pitcher Livan Hernandez why pitchers were getting hurt so often. He’s reply because pitchers are not throwing as much as they use to throw back in the day or work on conditioning their arms like before to tolerate those high workloads.

Framber Valdez officially went on the IL with elbow inflammation today. That’s 5 Astros starters on the IL.

@anthonyrusso6696

4 ай бұрын

As a Houston fan, Astros were noted as league leaders in the sticky substance sweepstakes. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.

Im already a subscriber, but if i wasnt a subscriber that Johnny Sins reference would have made me subscribe lol

It amazes me that pitchers in the 1900's pitched over 300 innings and completed most games. Yet today a pitcher going 5 innings is considered good. It seems to be a velocity issue. Maybe there is a drug enhancement people today are doing that is messing up the elbow that folks back in the 1900s did not. At some point, teams will not be signing pitchers to multi-million dollar deals if they get injured every year.

If your assertion that teams will become hesitant to throw big contracts to high velocity pitcher is true then the sport will organically regulate itself and pitchers with bigger pitch repertoires and greater control will become the most valued. But that's a big if and there are many reasons as to why this won't be the case.

doesnt matter how much you throw when ur young. I didnt pitch til 12 bc my dad wanted me to avoid "little league elbow" then threw maybe 330-375 innings from 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th grade up to about starting junior year and still tore mine. And i was throwing 92 as a lefty when it tore.

Get rid of the mound. Throw off flat ground. From my understanding it will reduce torque/shearing on the arm and improve control. A positive counter to reduced velocity and vertical plane..

How about expanding the roster and amount of pitchers a team can carry while limiting the amount of innings they can throw during the regular season? As well as allowing pitchers to use foreign substances and backing the mound up 1 foot. Pitchers will still get TJ but at least this way you can help preserve arms while still giving the hitters a chance to actually hit the ball

im 14 years old and facing the end of my baseball years because of my elbow need tommy john cant play anymore baseball after 14 because of this two year gap 😪

Obviously throwing harder puts you at risk. That being said the mechanical flaws all of these pitchers exhibit (not using their glove side, dropping/driving etc) put them in increased positions to blow out their arms. It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. Prime example, Spencer Strider already had tj in 2019, look at his overall mechanics since then and you'll see no adjustments to take pressure off his arm. It's very simple, sell out to throw max effort or pitch with effectiveness and controllable velocity to stay healthy.

iTalk, you good my guy? Your references are getting more and more unhinged, which I'm all for. Just curious if this is a cry for help or if ifunny is getting to you 😂

I think you're right about pitch counts, the pitch clock, and the '3rd time thru the order' stuff.. I'd like to add that this is putting emphasis on the pitchers to 'leave nothing in the tank/on the table', thus they're throwing harder.. Lebron recently said the key to his longevity (other than the amount of $$ he puts into is diet and recovery) is he's never redlining.. I wonder if that's the 'secret sauce' the pitchers from the 90s had.. leaving a lil extra in the tank, just in case. Pedro was extremely slight of build (Tim Lincecum-esque) and threw well over 200 innings multiple seasons.. I'd argue he authored the greatest 2 season run by a pitcher ever.. especially given the run environment (AL East and the absolute HEIGHT of the steroid era).. I'd have my kid follow the Maddog/LWebb format.. modest velo and shit tons of movement.. wont look sexy, but throwing 220+ innings without inflaming your elbow may be just as sought after, lol..

Curious to see the numbers regarding a year by year break down of pitchers with similar arm injuries. These issues started happening after insane contracts were being handed out. Maybe pitchers are pushing their arms past what they can sustain.

Velocity and spin rates are up. IMO I think those two things are it. I also feel the emphasis on spin rates and the crack down on sticky substances has greatly affected players. If not for the sticky substance crack down we could see higher spin rates with less strain on elbows.

Josiah Gray just scratched from the Nats game

why didnt this happen to Randy Johnson, Roger Clemens, Nolan Ryan?

@bornfuct

4 ай бұрын

dude don't ax hard questions...

@patsfan4929

4 ай бұрын

yeah exactly, it’s confusing because those guys all through upper 90’s…

@bugsbunny9334

4 ай бұрын

Maybe, less junk, more stuff in the zone, keeping pitch counts down just by throwing it in the zone.

@alejbr4

4 ай бұрын

ryan had perfect mechanics for his body type, randy was hurt a few times when he was younger but, developed a way to pitch, roger was roids

@controversialhottakes17

4 ай бұрын

@@bugsbunny9334 Those guys averaged 250+ IP in a season

As a sox fan, I like Andrew Bailey having them throw more offspead. Also I remember in elementary school pitchers had a pitch limit for games (idk what it looks like for the kids now). Maybe we have a future of pitcher contracts looking like NFL ones. 4 years 100 million (40 million guaranteed). Or what the sox did with John Lackey and had a league min team option if he missed time.

I was born in 03, I grew up watching mid 2000s baseball. What the hell happened to Major League pitchers??? I used to watch guys like Cliff Lee or Tim Lincicum go for 100+ pitches and go until the ninth. Now guys like Wheeler can’t even go above 80+ pitches and are taken out by the 6th inning…

My Atlanta Braves may have just lost Spencer Stryder for the rest of the year so yeah it's an epidemic. But what's causing it you can't say that the guys who were born now have weaker bones or tendons then the people who played back in the day. It's also exaggeration when people say all they threw so much more back in the day and never got hurt not true lotta careers ended over elbow injuries. But what's going on right now these guys are throwing so hard putting so much torque I mean we don't have guys like Greg Maddox out there anymore I mean everybody wants to see flamethrowers so we're going to continue to see these injuries.

@UGAfan1227

4 ай бұрын

Sure, a lot of injuries ended back in the day because of elbow injuries, but there were less than there are today. I think that is an issue of pitchers sacrifice mechanics to throw harder than they should be. Nolan Ryan threw gas and never had any issues because he had good mechanics.

Players specialize to heavily now because the amount of money in sports. That's what kept players healthier back in the day. They would play other sports and that would keep injuries down because you weren't doing the same motor patterns all year long

I was not ready for the bald doctor reference 😂😂

Proper mechanics, intensity, volume, not throwing enough,recovery, and training/nutrition are the main reasons. The focus on power and spin rate, along with the other factors cause pitchers to overpower their ligaments. Most throwing and pitching injuries are to the small tendons and muscles, not the large ones

As you said in the first paragraph, It was never easy to throw and pitchers are throwing harder and manipulating the ball far more.. It's kinda what happens more than it's a problem.

To go along with your point about nfl players, I heard a quote once that said every pitcher is one pitch away from their final pitch

Loving the videos, keep em coming...

It seems like the pitching aspect of baseball has hit its stress limit based on human biology. Unless there is some way to strengthen the UCL. Maybe there will be a transition to throwing less fastballs to try and preserve pitchers enforced by either the managers or GMs. Recovery rates on Tommy John are great but it still means that season is over which could ruin a team's chances if they are aiming for playoff success.

I think a lot of people are throwing faster than they are actually capable of. Especially since it is literally said it is easier to throw hard now, and evolve your breaking stuff later down the line, then the other way around. Teams will give you more chances. I mean, look at how long Syndergaard and Matt Harvey stuck around.

After i took a break from following mlb for a long time, i was stunned to see so many pitchers throwing 100% on every pitch, 98+ mph on sinkers and cutters etc. Its gonna get worse each year.

MLB needs to make and regulate their own sticky substance with similar friction to sunscreen and rosin. We’ve seen Glasnow talking about the pain after pitching without stick. Have the ump carry the Tin of sticky stuff and allow the pitcher to get some when they do their first inspection

Specialization has hurt as much as anything. 20 years ago, a pitcher knew he could have to pitch a complete game at any given time so they paced themselves more. Now, you know seven is about as much as they'll need to go so they amp it up on every pitch. Harder speeds = more balls = more pitches at 100% velocity ... and we are seeing the results

Submarine side arm pitching

0:35 I quit playing in a rec league because the kids threw too hard and had no control. I was a righty and got so many HBPs. The last one was on the back of my meck and I turned away from the pitcher. Again, rec league. With what I heard from a coach dueing machine pitching is that I was decent. So I could probably be at a NAIA or DIII school (which I think is optimistic), but here I am, going to JUCO and not doing anything and commenting on a video at midnight. All because we want velo over control.

Justin verlander was throwing harder than anyone 100+ mph and he didn't need no TJ until he was 38 years old!! His mechanics are immaculate tho!! A lot of the pitchers coming up now must have have poor or just okay mechanics. Mechanics are very important!!

This is kind of the balance we expect eventually. We have pushed pitchers time and time again. Strikeouts went up, balls in play dropped, and the game became a pitchers game. This is a plateau that is going to favor low velocity "rubber arm" kind of guy. It sucks but triple digit velocity is not for starters. This will make the game more exciting honestly.

People point out velocity, but it's pitch shaping that is really doing damage. Slight rotations of the wrist and slight changes to force paths on the fingers through the arm have huge changes to the direction of forces on the ligaments of the elbow. If the UCL takes the force along it's axis, it can bear the force without damage. A slight rotation, and the ligament isn't taking the force along it's strong axis, resulting in damage over time. 95 to 100 MPH sinkers and sliders, still throwing huge velocity while also transferring the arm force to increased spin rates at a variety of angles, is a recipe for surgery and recovery in your future. I'm a structural engineer, not a kinesiologist or physician, but I know how force diagrams and resistance paths work.

I don’t think there’s really one decisive answer to why it’s happening so often now. Some guys have bad mechanics, some try to overthrow for that sweet velo, others maybe try to throw too much junk. Pitching is just super unnatural. I pitched heavy as a kid, like weekly pitching instructions from a former big leaguer, probably throwing 300 pitches a week, throwing complete games routinely despite inning limits being in effect and having a full rotation of pitches way too young. My elbow was basically shot by like 12 or 13. My velo fell off like a good 6 mph during a single season, elbow hurt constantly and when not pitching I had to be moved from short to second because I just couldn’t make the same throws I had always been making. Elbow still hurts to throw over a decade later, so I think it’s pretty safe to say I have some ucl damage, which sounds like a crazy thing to happen to a 12 year old, but it’s the reality we’re living with modern pitching. Pitchers at all levels are pushing their elbows to the absolute breaking point just to stand out a bit. I wish there was an easy fix for it, but there’s just not. Pitching is the single most competitive position you could play in any sport, I honestly don’t think they would accept something like a velocity limit as they’d just be sitting there lobbing beach balls and getting shelled nightly. It’s a lose lose situation, they either go the way of the NFL running back where it’s just expected they have short careers and thus lose value, or they have to settle with nerfing themselves, performing worse and again lose value.

Our bodies are made for our arms to throw like softball players. Downward, not over hand. This already has pitchers going against their bodies. Add slick baseballs, banning sticky substances and a quicker pitch clock and you've got this. Not to mention, your point about kids throwing their arms off for velo. My son is 15 and only throws 70, but there's kids that play EVERY weekend that throw upwards of 90mph. Tournaments every other weekend on top of hitting puberty and playing highschool baseball and lifting weights. It's a recipe for disaster.

My college program is now up to 7 guys with TJ… d3 level and none of our guys throw over 90. They just all lift big and put too much strain on their elbows. It’s hard to watch from cf man, it’s crazy and it makes it hard to show up to the field every day bc half the team is hurt. This needs to stop. I’m no pitcher anymore but shit man like 85 with sink is better than 94 flat down the middle. More guys need to trade command for velo. Thank you for my ted talk, stay healthy.

Does anyone remember hearing stories about kids just getting TJ surgery and not needing it ? I want to say it was 10 years ago maybe ? The Idea was to avoid the injury before it happened . I know there was pushback but I would like to know who did it and how did it go that is if it was true of course .

Allow teams to increase the number of pitchers on the roster. More pitchers means fewer innings pitched and more rest. Injuries will go down

There's something about the combination of spinate and velocity. Something about the grip they're having to put on the ball in order to achieve spin rate is causing this issue.

Spidertack and other substances are now banned. Pitchers doing all they can trying to keep spin rates up and if they can’t, most are throwing harder to get more on their fastball. That’s the issue. Not the pitch clock.

People brought this up last year with the implementation of the pitch clock. Sure there are faster games but that's less rest for pitchers.

Bauer is playing with some voodoo😂

It’s not hard to see why this happens. Kids pitch year round these days. Arm angles are sharp. And they want max velocity at all times. Sign those big contracts pitchers. Until owners, managers and pitching coaches realize power is not the only element of pitching, this problem will continue.

It's the velo not the innings. It takes exponentially more energy for every mph.

If I was a GM, and with how prevalent pitcher injuries have become over the last few seasons, I would never sign a pitcher to a deal longer than 3 years.

Every pitcher throws like mid to high 90s now.... that extra 2-3 MPH every fastball does major damage that if throwing slightly slower.... would not be nearly as damaging.

If you watch games from the 80s and 90s, you can see a pitch, and then immediately tap forward 10 seconds and the pitcher is very often starting his windup or even mid throw. It could be that the time taken between pitches grew *because* pitchers *do* need to recover more between pitches. I’m wondering - does putting a brace in the elbow make it so future TJ won’t be necessary? And, if so, shouldn’t pitchers get it before they even damage their arms? And, if so, is that cheating? 😅

Expand the the roster to allow more pitchers. Give each team an extra 5 spots just for pitching.

I don’t understand why there isn’t a single pitcher in the league who’s utilized a ‘range’ of fastball speeds. A few 90-93 throws, show them an offspeed, then punch them with a 98-100 ball.

The fact most of the injuries happen at the start of the season is evidence the on ramp is part of the problem

The other day, I was watching the Mets / Reds game, and a reliever named Tejay Antone came out of the pen for the Reds and threw exactly one pitch before leaving with an injury to his elbow. He literally tore a ligament straight off the bone in his first appearance of the year. He’s had two TJ surgeries and now will have a third elbow procedure. It’s really sad to see guys work so hard but still be unable to stay healthy.

@iTalkStudios

4 ай бұрын

That's insane I didn't even see that

Worked out well for the Washington nations and Strasburg. Can’t stop guys from getting hurt it’s part of the game

The solution to this is very simple. Stop throwing as hard as you can every pitch, save the extra gas for when you need a K.. Also, modern pitchers throw way more with theirs arms, then with theirs legs. Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, all used their legs much more then they used their arms. All you have to do is look at how the greats pitched. Way different from today.

"Getting" is the wrong word. It "got" out of hand years ago now.

I’d honestly like to see a video from someone about injuries in the modern era of sports compared to older generations of players. Because I feel like there’s so many injuries today but that can also be because every athlete is under the media microscope 24/7

Elbow injuries on pitchers WILL be more common, thanks to little Bobbie’s pitch clock.

TJ surgeons and divorce lawyers. Two professions that will always be needed lol

You’re like Oprah handing out Tommy John surgeries!! And you get Tommy John! And you get Tommy John!!

Why is it all of the sudden such an epidemic though? Bc think about it, pitchers before like the year 2000, pitchers were durable and pitched deep into games... there was no such thing as innings limits. 200 innings a year was common. I think it has to do with these kids growing up trying to throw hard instead of learning to actually pitch. Now velocity of 95 mph is common and I think that has alot to do with the tommy John surgery being so common. Where pitchers of old days didn't so much rely on velocity as much as learning where to place their pitches and have more control and could put the ball where they want. For example, Greg Maddux or Tom glavine top speed on their fast ball was like 88 mph but they knew how to pitch.. pitchers of today are more so throwers than pitchers in my humble opinion.

I sometimes pitch sidearm which doesn't cause a lot of pressure on my elbow might throw slower but atleast you can throw

Interesting that it’s mostly happening to starting pitchers, the only reliever needing Tommy John this year is Loasiga.

Steve Stone thinks the increased use of hard breaking balls is the cause. Muscles get stronger but connective tissue does not. Throw harder, throw harder breaking stuff because you are bigger and stronger then the connective tissue is going to fail and it fails without warning. It is not only elbow injuries that are increasing, so are lower body injuries probably for the same reason. The increased use of strength training may make stronger but it also can make you more brittle.

Tejay Antone of the Reds will get his 3RD Tommy John. So sad

What if they go to a 6 man rotation? Pitchers should pitch every 6th day. I think thatbwould help some.