People want to argue that you are wrong the key to the whole thing is you tell them what works on your form or what you think is going to work on your farm and you tell them test and check your own farm and go from there, so you’re not wrong you’re bringing things to the light of day

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Yes! We have to do our own testing on our own farms. To many farmers are stuck in the "my area" mindset.

Good stuff

to me the only thing that should be perfect is the PH Cal. Levels the rest will follow along. I have taken off mulch hay for over 20 years on some properties and I had no low phosphate deficiencies show up on the corn.potash levels where low as shit but guess what I split a farm with K and No K and what did I find?? no difference. the only fields I saw a major difference in was LIME! I split a couple fields in half with lime and that's where I saw the difference.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Nice! I daydream of the day that the comment section gets filled in with comments like yours where guys are doing their own testing versus just writing out that check!

@familyfarmertn8931

Жыл бұрын

I've had the same experience with the lime/pH thing. I've been seeing it as more yield limiting than the amount of fertilizer I put on and I try to have a cover crop every year too

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

Great comment, Lime/avaliable calcium is one of the most noticeable 1st steps I've found to balance PH's . Have you ever tried suspended liquid lime? Or pellet dry lime? The liquid is tuff to find a applicator for and needs to be sprayed out pretty much upon mixing but before pelletized lime it was the best option. I'm always trying to apply the moat available chelated prodict as I can find. The new pelletized lime is actually really good for breaking down and becoming avaliable cpnpared to straight "lime" I know some areas of the country require tons and tons of potash annually, lime will greatly help with that availability.

@chrisbertrand3989

Жыл бұрын

What would be a K level thats “low as shit”?? Just want to compare to our farm debating if i should spread potash in the spring

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Have a lot of ground that is under 100, even 50 , but still very productive. Different clay in the soil makes K react differently from area to area

We were so poor for Christmas we got the batteries for other kids toys

Don’t really have a Christmas story, just enjoy hearing about how kids got candy and were excited! Now they wouldn’t be as excited. I am really looking forward to a pH conversation. We struggle with lower pH over here. And lime isn’t cheap.

School is back in session after a brief Christmas holiday break.

My grandparents didn't have coal. So Santa gave my grandfather a stick and an onion every year. It was a tradition for our family.

I have been using less commercial fertilizers over the last 20 years, I have been doing cover crop rye in the fall on my corn ground and using my dairy cow manure more efficiently and keeping ph in the 6.5 range, along with a crop rotation program that is working good. I had to get more for less to keep my 40 cow West Virginia dairy farm profitable! I have learned a lot from your channel John, keep the videos coming!

@michiganhay7844

Жыл бұрын

I’d be interested in seeing some of your manure fertility videos

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

@Michigan Hay so would I. I hear some manure can be high is salts but undoubtedly it's a great, if not the best source of natural Nitrogen and many other nutrients

@michiganhay7844

Жыл бұрын

@@growthefarmup2606 you would be referring to liquid dairy manure pan pack, manure from beef, cattle and horses. Another life stock rarely is gonna be high in salt.

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

@Michigan Hay good to know. Learning on Jon's channel is always good! Thanks for the info, I was told some manure can be high is salt so have it checked before applying.

I'm so poor this Christmas I used a "door prize" soil test for my worst pasture. After shipping and the $5 extra for figuring out my organic matter, I couldn't afford to put anything under the tree for the Mrs! Guess I will have to cut a hole in my pocket!

My grandmother was one of 19 children so they were poor. I believe this story was before the depression set in. One year for Christmas my grandmother went out to the barn and got a couple of horse apples, put them in a box and wrapped a ribbon around it and gave it to my great grandfather. He opened it up and with a cheerful voice he said "Ooh somebody gave me a horse", and then his face got long and he said " but it got away". It seems soil test tell you what they think you need but never tell you what's there but tied up and unavailable. I worked for a little while on an organic farm and the soils where loaded with phosphorus but hardly any of it was actually accessible. It was getting pH and the micros that help things come around. Along with a lot of cover cropping, compost and grazing. If a guy can set themselves up to mob grazing livestock this is one of the best things I've seen done to improve soil health.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Lol ! Man we don't know tough times

@danw6014

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 no we really don't but I have a feeling we are going to learn what that was about soon..

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Probably right. Hope not, but we need a reset in this country to get our priorities fixed.

the other thing is do not EVER EVER EVER pull a test after you take the crop off in the fall! if you do you will about die when you look at it. now put a cover on and pull the test when your about to plant/Terminate the cover. or do it at both times you will be amazed.

@OxAO

Жыл бұрын

You're not dead though. It didn't work. ٩(◕‿◕｡)۶

@robmiller2919

Жыл бұрын

No wonder the fertilizer company's around here recommend pulling samples in the fall.

@farming4g

Жыл бұрын

Good point... Literally when the field is in a "dead state" if you want to call it that. Things are tied up yet since nothing is really breakimg down yet.

As far as getting sulfur on beans I've had good results with k-mag on them.

I have always made the contention that granulated purchased fertilizer does not pay off, in order to support it innovative off farm sources of income injection is what really does pay for it; example, would it be affordable if one didn’t have an off farm job, and or some sort of program payments That’s the test I would use? I’ve got Fields I’ve been farming for 30+ years with no inputs, besides lime and manure I virtually do not see the crop removal rates as what a soil test would predict sure my fertility levels would be considered low and my yields from time to time somewhat lower than the person who’s growing 5 to 6 ton Paris girl, Falfa, however I’m just in a subsistence nitrogen carbon cycle to produce that type of yield insulating my risk because every time I’ve tried to spend thousands of dollars a year on granulated fertilizer there’s zero risk protection so crop removal rates to me are useless the main thing I use soil test for our pH other than that for me it’s a dog and pony show. Of course I’m not doing corn and soy beans. I’ve gotten into a system where I’m not that reliant on those type of inputs in order to survive

I noticed you mentioned the great prophet Albreicht. It's amazing it has taken 80 years for us to decide he might had been right.

Great video! Yes i agree ag phd seems to like to spend money but they have overlayed soil tests to yield so they are not doing "what they were told". Phos is a weird one but we have found we cannot do without K. Maybe its just our farm but that has been our experience.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/crops/north-dakota-clay-mineralogy-impacts-crop-potassium-nutrition-and-tillage-systems

@EDBZ28

Жыл бұрын

Maybe it’s bc ag phd is being sponsored by the fertility companies they’re advocating for by encouraging the traditional soil sampling and fertility prescription approach.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

@@EDBZ28 always follow the money!

Nutrient deficiency shows the soil as a system is out of wack. The challenge is don't think even the soil scientist have it figured out yet. And they aren't on a path to figure it out because that's not who is funding them wants.

I think in our area it's a good bet to spend the money on micro-nutrients like boron, sulfur, moly as well as a soluble calcium fertilizer to combat the high magnesium levels over time that make our soils "tight" and highly compactable. I think those would correlate with yield response pretty consistently. And calcium is low key the most important nutrient to have in abundance. It's the grocery cart that delivers the nutrition is the analogy I've heard.

@mark63366

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like I have the same problems you have. Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur and Boron is what helps on my high Magnesium soil. What do you use for a calcium source?

@ryecarlson7867

Жыл бұрын

@@mark63366 "Organical" I'm sure there's other brands for the same thing. It's super fine powder of baked hi cal lime and gypsum. Hard to spread though. I think I might look for a pelleted gypsum this year

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

Look into Humic acid, most people don't know whats in it, but if you can get a break down from your local supplier take a good look at it. Humisource (made from Leonardite mines) and liquefied, it's the best trace pack of 18 essential micro and macro nutrients. Can be applied any time spring, fall, post emerge, pre emerge. You can't really put on too much. Humic is the best stuff, you don't even need that compost tea alot of places mix into it, if your getting your Humisource straight from the mine.

Another interesting video. I’m curious if fert companies in your area are trying to push humic acid products that are said to help break down the existing phosphorus in the soil so it is readily available for the plant? Nutrien is pushing a product called Altura & years ago Black Label was another one; BL didn’t react well in our colder climate of WNY…it would “cake” and clog filters. We haven’t tried either. To sum up how I’m interpreting your series of videos, on the one particular field you’re talking about, you haven’t applied fertilizer for 9 years, but rather an intensive cover crop program and haven’t lost any yield?

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Very little P and K Hit and miss on cover crop success. Was a very good producer! Most Retailers around here believe that NPK grow the crop.

More-on farmer🤣🤣🤣

Well said and great information Jon ! We have 150 acres of rolling ridge type ground and it's time to pull some soil samples . I know we are short on Lime ... Might need 4 ton to the acre . Wonder if we are better off putting the entire 4 ton on in one shot or divide it at 2 ton per acre over a few years ?

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

That's good question. I always break it up over a couple years one because of cost and two what happens to the soil if you dump that much product on it at one time

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

Good call on the lime I would apply a 1/2 to 3/4 of a ton for 3 to 4 years and then stop, your soil tests will change dramatically over 3 yrs. that will be all of the Lime you need. try to get suspended liquid lime if u can, it's difficult to find an applicator if not definitely use pelatized dry lime, though it is more expensive it is well worth it it breaks down and becomes more available in the soil, balances your PH. Then your on track to tweak what you need. Liquid lime is the best soil changing input I've found. The pellets are a close 2nd

@cranerigging3604

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 I will know more after the soil test and thank you Jon !

@billsauberlich7337

Жыл бұрын

I myself would be hesitant to apply a large amount of lime in one shot in fear of over doing it .I soil test every other year and can compare results ,I have seen ph levels vary .4 or .5 sometimes even more in two years I have not grid sampled and maybe should,my samples have always come back between 6.3 to 7.2 ,in the ballpark, the 7.2 is higher then I would like but 2 years later it might come back at 6.8, seems a lot of this is a moving target

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

@@billsauberlich7337 yea, small changes were messing with a living thing, gods creation. A humble approach is appropriate 👌 I've gotten to pretty consistent 7.2, some 6.8. I put on liquid lime in the fall for years before I started doing covers. Available calcium is a huge factor also.

On the subject of tissue sampling, one year I tissue sampled some about 10" corn everything came back adequate except the boron was low ,did not apply anything,but a week later took another sample from the same approximate spots in the field, levels were all adequate including the boron,now if I would have applied some boron between the samples I would have thought that really helped.so did the crop require a different amount in that time period ,did the crop have to get a bigger plant and root system in order to take in enough,or did I just sample low uptake plants the first time and better uptake plants the second time, this was a field that the crop looked good at both sample times,I think tissue sampling might be most useful if you have a crop that is

@billsauberlich7337

Жыл бұрын

Sorry inadvertently hit send,might be more valuable if you have a crop that is showing stress

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

I would imagine tissue testing we need to look at the weather patterns or anything that could influence that? Wonder if a guy did tissue testing for many years many times throughout the season if you would develop patterns?

I think it's less about applying tons of phos more about having available phos. I prob apply 1/10 of the phos of my areas avg phos application. And for 10+ yrs my phos soil tests have stayed the exact same. Yes my soil samples suggest I'm adequate to a little low on Phos The 3 rules for available phos 1 weather 2 precipitation 3 dissolution. Available phos is really all that matters. When you hear the soil guys talk about the "Phosphorus bomb" this is what their referring too. I would rather spend the input$$$ on humates and cover crops. It makes all fertility more available anf humisource is the best trace pack of 18 nutrients you can find. I get it direct from a Leonardite mine. (Not saying where) lol. You could apply 3000 lbs of potash or even a better available phos, and not see a bit of change in soil samples for 5 yrs. At least in my soils. We have extremely high potassium in my area, so I usually only apply 1 gal of KTS to put some negative anion's I'm the soil, to flick the light switch on in the soil. Almost all other fertility is positively charged.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Interesting.

If you see in your tissue test your low in a something how are you going to fix it? Liquid fertilizer in season or dry to build it up in the soil for the next year?

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Would depend? I for sure would try a foliar if it is a nutrient that would work. Then look for help on how to fix it.

Does your test weight go down by cutting back on p&k? I watched a video from the university of Wisconsin on a study on (soybeans) by applying various rates of p&k and it was interesting as to how much it effected the nutrient density of the # of pods pod size and seed size and weight. Granted that was on soybeans and this videos ur talking about corn but im curious if the results would be similar?

@btownbu5979

Жыл бұрын

Heres the video im talking about kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2dl2LNxhLaadcY.html

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the link oh, I like the University of Wisconsin I think they do a lot of good work. I personally have never tried to do a test weight study. But if we look at some of the stuff that advanced eco-engineering talks about we could easily see how Plant Nutrition would affect that

I hear of people applying humic and fulvic acid to their foliar nitrogen now too to increase the cation exchange in the soil

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Dr Elaine Ingham does a lot of teaching about compost tea mixes and fulvic acid stuff Other guys have started to try to use biochar if you read up on that that's quite interesting

@JamesOBrien2253

Жыл бұрын

@Jon Stevens Maple Grove Farms yup seen that too the only problem is our EU over lords have banned us from burning and brush on farm next year onwards any evidence of a burn site on farm means big fines

@growthefarmup2606

Жыл бұрын

Humic and folic are the same thing, folic is just humic watered down, Most retail outlets add something like a compost or some potassium just so they can call it their own mix and upsell you. If you can find direct lenordite that is broken down into liquid humisource that is the most pure trace pack of 18 nutrients you will ever find. Apply any time you won't hurt a thing

Do you think it would be beneficial to tissue sample alfalfa? I have been using and, and seeing good results to the sulfur.

@dustinadams9136

Жыл бұрын

AMS

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

From what other people say Alfalfa is a tremendous responder to inputs.

You should be on TikTok,so you can get to the point in a couple minutes

Going against the local experts has paid on K and I think Zinc. I think we have to look at drought years in the total equation. Locals can bust the bins under normal rainfall with a 200ppm K and .5ppm Zinc. In the dry years the uptake is less, ending with 4 foot tall corn. Also with the local recs for K, all the corn looks like rock stars until V7, then the differences really show up. So taking some later season tissue tests vs. the locals is a good idea. You should be higher. (made it through 4:40 in the video)

Are you going to conklins pro ag in burnsville ???

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

When is that?

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

I do enjoy their class. Depending on the date and my workload in the shop can't guarantee I can make it

@chrisbertrand3989

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 jan.5th and 6th can register online or with your conklin sales guy

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Thanks. Boy, that is close. I will see my Conklin guy tonight. I have their products for foliar, but I don't know how much other stuff I will use?

@chrisbertrand3989

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 was just curious i have never gone this my first year hoping to learn somthing

Ok, made it to 2:30, low soil test P is basically impossible to correct with Map. Manure, or biosolids yes, map basically impossible, certainly financially impossible. BUT, a deficient plant can be helped by banding map in a 2 by 2 easily. 95% of our p goes on with a corn planter either in furrow or 2 by 2 at a fraction of what a broadcast rate would call for. 3:04, yes you are wrong. Look at the long term fertility trials (50+ years) done by University of Guelph and replicated by OMAFRA. Now at the end, great video, a lot of great questions. I disagree with you. Made it to the end, 2 lessons I've learned the hard way farming are, "don't argue with success", and "you can't save yourself into prosperity". So I won't argue with you, 9 years you didn't drop P levels...can they go lower than 9 on how high your cec is? Not likely. Can you make more than 40k a year by spending that on fertilizer? With a 50K test. Easily. Put the entire 40k into potash and I guarantee you'll see positive roi if you strip-till it and then band your nitrogen. I'd argue that you'd be better off broadcasting the entire 10 years of potash in year 1 than spreading it out over a decade. Seen it happen many times on virgin ground entering production. (good luck convincing your wife or the bank of that though) No sap labs are accredited in Canada yet, and US accreditation system is a joke unfortunately. (albriecht has LONG since been discredited, why are we still talking about him? the only theories of his that are still relevant are in determining whether to use dolometic, or calacitic lime) Tissue analysis i've become a huge believer in over the last few years. Been doing weekly sampling on corn and wheat and monthly on beans. Changed the fertility program immensely as a result of those multi-year multi-soil type data sets. An example of lessons learned, simply adding 5# of Mg (kmag) with our potash in the fall strip has increased K on tissue tests by a full percent consistently. As a result kernel weights (highly recommend you start doing kernel weights on all your strip trials, particularly on beans) are up 0.1g/kn. Tissue testing has resulted in a lot of micros being applied throughout the season either through y drop, or late season foliar. Tissue testing has for sure not reduced our fertilizer bill, it is likely up about 20% in recent years, but so is the ROI of that investment. I think we're on the same page Jon and you're definitely ahead of the curve with your strip-til and long rotation. Saving yourself into prosperity though can be a really expensive game to play though.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Good post. I'm not trying to be cheap but more accurate with dollars ?! We can move P and K on paper, long-term soil that got removal rates when full tillage the soil tests are very good. But we have DAP, would that make the difference? Manure history ground you can still see the crop effect 30 years later I'm glad you disagree with some stuff, then we can do research, and then I can get better!! Strip till banding has been a massive success in making crops better for me in our soil. On the poor fields, we get a lime product out of Northern MN that has fly ash in it, good K credit, sulfur, and micros. with the snow, I don't know if I will get any this winter, though? This year, on poor fertility fields, I am going to use a normal program except strip till vs broad cast. But I would like to do a strip of reduced fertilizer and then the foliar program from some of these scientists to see what happens. The dollars are there in crop production to spend money to make sure it's a success. Lost my ass this year, thought as goofy as climate and markets have been, I would diversify to spread risk. Most of it flopped other than corn and wheat, which I only had a small acreage in.

@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754

Жыл бұрын

Oh, cec is avg of 10, . Om from .5- 3

@Farmerknowsbest

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 that low?!

@Farmerknowsbest

Жыл бұрын

@@jonstevensmaplegrovefarms3754 the more years of growing wheat I get under my belt the more acres of wheat I want to grow. 132bpa farm average this year on winter wheat is hard to ignore. The outlier year though, likely will be a struggle to repeat that in eastern ontario again. Took an adzuki bean contract this year to try and get soybean acres down more. If I could farm and never grow soybeans I'd be a happy camper!

@Farmerknowsbest

Жыл бұрын

I'm not suggesting you're being cheap. Just recommending caution before abandoning agronomy. You're way ahead of the curve with strip-til. You get it is all about fertility placement and basically nothing to do with tillage. You've figured out that surface banding uan at the base of the row is working well in your high residue environment. I don't think you're as bad off as you think you are.

Your pretty punny.