To be clear, our main goal was to keep your stove functioning when the winds pick up. Given that the BRS 3000t is inoperable above a 2-mph wind, there was an opportunity for improvement. The secondary goal was to improve efficiency on longer trips in order to prevent you from bringing an additional fuel canister. That’s saving over 7 oz of weight for a small canister. Keep up the great work.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Indeed! I was impressed by how the screens worked. I actually never used to carry one, but the Mini is now in my regular kit. Thanks for making good stuff!

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkepticplease contact me about HX system suggestion

@Orange_Tang

5 ай бұрын

Been looking for something like this for a while, couldn't believe I've never heard of you guys considering the known issues with the BRS. You got a sale from me. Wish the shipping had been cheaper though. Is there a reason you don't use the USPS flat rate boxes or something. Should be much cheaper considering the size of these things.

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

@@Orange_Tang As GearSkeptic points out in this video, there are a plethora of solutions out there; each with their own advantages and disadvantages. The customer gets the privilege of deciding which solution best meets their particular needs. Best regards.

Put down everything - another gear skeptic video just landed!

About two years ago, I was contemplating making a stove comparison video for my channel, and i am so glad I didn't. Your videos are exactly what people need. They are so detailed, and i could never have done the comparison justice the way all of your videos do. You are a gift to the hiking community. Thank you for every video you make.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

That is very generous of you. Thank you so much!

Back again! I'm no camper, hiker, or ultra-lighter, but you really don't need to be to appreciate the narrative of your garage experiments and the value of your nutritional guides. Your videos are so meticulously researched and well-presented that they're worth waiting for and re-watching a few times to digest. I can't say enough good about this kind of content making it's way onto the timeline and I really appreciate all the time you put into these; cheers!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! It is very kind of you. Much appreciated!

There are literally a bazillion videos out there comparing stove systems. But if you are going to do it, do it right..... by accounting for all the variables. Very well done!!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

It’s a royal pain, but worth it in the end!

Fantastic series! You've clearly shown how there are no simple solutions, just necessary compromises. I've done dozens, if not hundreds, of boil tests with alcohol stoves but never had the discipline to record and organize the data. Thanks for the heavy lifting on the canister side of things.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I do plan to try and include alcohol stoves using the same method, for comparison. But, heat exchanger systems are next.

@bobprince1472

Ай бұрын

It would be nice to do alcohol stoves. My feeling is most videos of bench tests are not done in realistic conditions but the rigour of your method might throw light on that. Nobody I've seen seems to take into account the fuel used to make the stove bloom, as if that just gets thrown away. Also wind, realistic ambient temperature and starting temperature of water are factors...

@RonMTube

Ай бұрын

@@bobprince1472 not counting bloom time in a stove test is a pet peeve of mine.

@bobprince1472

Ай бұрын

Winter is becoming almost non existent here in the southern UK, Lat 51deg, so it's hard to do tests in cold conditions. My understanding is that bloom time is affected both by the design of the stove and more critically ambient temperature which affects the physical temperature of the stove. In the cold it takes a lot longer to bloom. I checked out your channel and saw the Trangia adapter

GearSkeptic: The hero we need

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

🤓

My tummy turns over with excitement when I see a new Gear Skeptic video in my feed 😃

@dbrophy

5 ай бұрын

I've been looking forward to a deep dive on device charging efficiency... e.g. if I have a power bank, is there a way I can optimise the amount of power I get out of it? Do I lose a bunch of power by charging my phone all the way to 100%?

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Good suggestion! I have begun to gather power banks, a usb current meter, and do some research on that topic 👍🏼

Thank you for all the thought and work that went into this analysis. Quality work as always. As you point out, knowing the facts as to efficiency allows us to make better choices as to compromises. I’ve used the regular Ocelot screen (with the bottom plate) with a Pocket Rocket Deluxe and a 650 mug-style pot for about 3000 miles of trail over the last two years, despite the weight penalty over the BRS/Mini combination, because I trust the MSR stove more (part of the additional weight of a PR Deluxe is a piezo does save me the weight of one lighter), I want to fit both the stove and windscreen in my pot, and I want to stretch each canister down the trail so I don’t have to carry two or toss a partial canister as often. I know that I average around 20 “boils” per (100-110g) canister, which helps me plan. After watching this, I am going to be more careful about finding wind blocks around the campsite to supplement my windscreen. Gaining efficiency that way seems to be the lightest and cheapest way to save more fuel.

i was just binge listening to you at work last night, for the 4th time now, after referring you to a buddy. what a surprise when I wake up today to see you just released a new video! Love your stuff fun, educational, and thoroughly researched! Mad props for the work you do and I cant wait for the next video

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! I really do appreciate that 👍🏼

I'll have to pick up one of those Ocelot minis. Didn't even know they existed. Great work! Very informative videos. For stove, I usually use a Trangia, with one of those clip-together titanium windscreen/stovestands and an anodized aluminum Olicamp xts pot which has the heat coils built in. I use a cut top portion of a soda can for a simmer ring. I use at least 1/3 the amount of fuel compared to a regular pot without a windscreen and simmer ring and in using the yellow bottle heet, I'm saving money compared to denatured alcohol. I store the fuel in a soda bottle. Not sure if there's anything better and maybe it helps someone to know these things.

Excellent! Your videos are so well done. Thanks!

As always, an exceptionally well thought out and executed video. I do appreciate the detail, even if it takes me three sittings to absorb it all😅. I learned a great deal and should be able to make some of the principles work for me in my setups. Thanks for all the work

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thank you, sir. One of these days I will figure out how to objectively test stick stoves for comparison.

The attention to detail .. Magnificent !

Love when you drop a new video, thank you for making one of my favorite shows!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

You are most welcome, and thank you too!

I'm so glad I've stumbled upon your channel. I totally geek out over stuff like this. Awesome video!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Awesome! Thanks much.

This video showed me I needed to recalibrate what 2 and 5mph look like. Much higher than 5 means seek wind shelter or consider not cooking if you are in a territory prone to wilderness fires. Thank you for this series.

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

A pretty simple test is hold a BIC lighter in the wind: above about 2 mph it will have problems staying lit. Best regards.

Excellent analysis once again! I had been looking forward to this video release. We appreciate all your effort to provide an accurate comparison of the various options and configurations. Always enjoy your great work, thanks again.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! I hope it helps!

Wow! Beautiful work, many thanks.

@rorymacintosh6691

5 ай бұрын

Just one suggestion - please don’t use 3d bar graphs. They are harder to read and give no more information. Eg en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misleading_graph

You are doing amazing work, best channel in a long time.

Great work as always. I wasn't expecting Reynolds's number calcs. Thanks for the flashbacks.👌

My most favourite videos to watch, after tetkoba's alcohol stoves .Thanks for you time and work on this great video!

GS you’ve done it again! Superb work! Thank you so much!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks, and you are very welcome! Hope it helps 🤓

IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW, THANK YOU FOR POSTING

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

🤓

You are the test GOAT!

Woot! New episode!

Thanks for the video and all that work. Cheers, Cliff

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

You are most welcome! Hope it helps.

This is fantastic, scientific, interesting, and well done. I look forward to more testing like this in the future!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! That is greatly appreciated.

Awesome as always 😁

@GearSkeptic

3 ай бұрын

Thanks again! 😊

Great, thanks for the info. The WAPI has been a great addition to my kit as well.

Good information and test. Thanks for sharing 😊

I love the through approach and proper reference to studies you have going on in you videos! KZread needs more people like you. I imagine each video takes a small eternity to make. I would definitely be willing to sponsor on Patreon if asked. I’ve noticed some marketing regarding gas mix in canisters making various claims about cold weather performance. It might be a nice topic for a video to compare gas pressure vs temperature. And how much the pressure drops when canisters are emptied at low temperatures. Of cause due to temperature drop, but I also suspect that propane and isobutane (2-methylpropane) drain from a cold canister first leaving only butane behind. Resulting in no pressure under freezing, despite having gas left in the canister.

Ahhhh fuknnnnnn maaazing!!! Detailed, precise to the point and chalked full of what most of the universe seems to lack at the present which is FACTS. Loved it and cannot tell you how much I appreciate the painstaking months it took you to cram all this knowledge into a few easily cognitive-palatable, highly visual and simplified explanations. Now if only you could make one about how to survive kids n marriage I’d own the keys to the universe.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Ha! Thanks very much. If I knew the answers to those last two, I’d just go sit at the top of a mountain wait for people to visit.

@pandabear631

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic 😂 well when they show up I suggest you charge them a small fee.

As usual....Most Excellent...!!! Thanks a millon G.S......

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

You are most welcome!

Great video

I was thrilled to see you posted a new video!!! I was getting edgy for new content. IMHO, you are the best content creator on KZread. Thank you for sharing your skepticism.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate that. Makes it all worth it!

Best content on YT. Thanks for all the time, money, and energy you put into these. I greatly appreciate all the free information you disseminate. Don't know if you feel like setting up a store, but I would be happy to purchase a hat or Tshirt with your logo. Would be a nice way for us to support your channel.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Very kind and much appreciated, but not necessary! Thanks 🤓

Thanks!

I very much appreciate your time in putting together these videos! I went on a hike for a month with a stove setup based on your first video in the series which worked better than I expected. I think I probably would have added a windshield based on this video, but I actually found a very significant benefit to the BRS/550mL pot combo using my Zlite sit pad as a windshield. It meant I didn't get through a 230g canister in around 40-50 "boils". Although, significantly slower boil time to my usual carry of an MSR Reactor, I'm very much looking forward to Part 4 to see if this features!

Tree bark and rocks help slot. I do have a stove with a built in wind screen. I use this on the coast a lot. Thanks. 😊

"I won't lie, I like big bottoms." Hahaha! Moving on if I can, when I anticipate big winds I take a Kelly Kettle Trekker. No need to take cannisters, uses twigs, never have to worry about running out of fuel. These weigh 1.5 lbs, and pack size is 5" by 10". When you add the weight of two 4oz cannisters ( 14.8 oz ) plus the weight of the stove, pot and wind screen, they are pretty close.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I do have plans to add stick stoves to the testing. Just need to develop a protocol. But, if I don’t do heat exchangers next, they may publicly flog me…

@jakeaurod

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic How about gasifier stick stoves? I'm surprised I've never seen anyone make a flat-pack stick stove with additional folded or fitted metal sheet to create the geometry for gasifier airflow. It might be too complicated or massy or fiddly, but when has that ever stopped anyone?

Once again awesome in depth analysis, thank you for putting in all that time to produce. My current setup has changed to account for wind after nearly setting fire to my testicles after a tent flap on my xmid came loose and knocked my pot and alpkit stove into my lap nearly melting, tent, pad, ee puffy jacket and quilt (a very expensive mistake). This prompted me to search for a system that was more wind resistant to avoid vestibule cooking, I settled on the soto windmaster (60.3g) and the triflex pot stand at (6.74g) coupled to an evernew eca521r pasta pot (71.98g) totaling 139.05g and let's not forget this includes a piezo ignitor too. From what I can see this appears to be extremely wind resistant and should hopefully seal the deal with not having to cook in the vestibule anymore at least till I can get my hands on a TD caldera cone which i think is more suitable for tent cooking! Would love to see some in depth analysis on gas vs Alcohol, specifically Trail designs cones as they are popular I believe. Cheers

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Yes! Heat exchanger pots are next, but alcohol stoves are on the list.

Please do a part 4 with heat exchanger pots like Jetboil etc! Other's data has shown they both increase fuel efficiency at rest and with wind, but no one else has such meticulous methodology as you do with your experiments. I've been wanting to try the Jetboil Stash but all the components kinda suck except the ultralight 800ml aluminum fluxring pot. It would be very interesting to see how Jetboil fluxring pots compare vs off-brand heat exchanger pots and how these kind of pots compare on different stoves.

@GearSkeptic

4 ай бұрын

I am actually working on heat exchangers right now. There’s a lot of boiling and analysis to do. Hopefully it will be ready in a few weeks.

@hydrothunder123

4 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic I wanna kiss you

Another excellent video. Thanks for the work you put into this. Personally I've mostly used white gas stoves like the MSR X-GK, Whisperlite and Simmerlite. I certainly take advantage of any natural wind blocking features of the landscape (and my backpack), but still consider a wind screen a safety feature as it can mean the difference between the stove working and not working in difficult conditions.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I do plan to try a remote canister stove with full surround screen for comparison. Someday, maybe white gas? Though, I’m pledged to do heat exchangers next.

YESSSS HE RISES

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

#notdeadyet 🤓

Regarding the last part of wind blocks, deflection, etc, something that came to mind: Take a stick and anchor it, upright, into the ground well. Take a small'ish, square or rectangular* piece of UL, but decently tough and durable piece of fabric (like 1.1 oz/yd2 6.6 nylon with silicone coating) with some corner tie outs and a bit of UHMWPE (or other) cord tied to it. Figure out the wind direction and put the fabric over the stick and stretch it out into a Point being is that fabric is significantly lighter/less dense than metal. * You could also play with the shape of the fabric to cut down on weight, like say an upright triangular shape or the like, instead of square or retangular. But I suspect that a lot of us cook kind of in our shelter anyways, which already minimizes wind... (Edit, I see you did briefly address that at the very end).

Fantastic video. I would love to see how the Soto Windmaster with the Ocelot and the MSR Windburner would perform in the same test.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Heat exchangers are next!

Always excited when a new Gear Skeptic video comes out. If I'm ever actually going to go backpacking, I feel like I'm going to be well prepped when it comes to areas your current videos cover. I feel like you've mentioned it in one of your videos, but I'm not sure. Have you looked at multi variable testing methods to decrease the amount of time it takes for your testing? NightHawkInLight has a great video on a multivariable testing methodology that he used to optimize firework chemical composition without having to do extensive testing.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Not familiar. Will have to check it out!

Great as always to see another ' video from you! Wonder what's next? Maybe looking at pots with heat exchangers like the Jetboil Stash or the Firemaple Petrel?

@GearSkeptic

4 ай бұрын

I’m actually working on heat exchangers right now, including both the Stash and Petrel!

The BRS 3000 burner support legs will fit up and into the HX underside of a Firemaple FMC X6 1litre heat exchange pot, and works very well in conjunction with said pot.

It’s Mr. Bill!

As the nominated gear head. I'm very grateful I can now send people this 3 part series, when asked what stove I should buy. And all they wanted was a simple answer moohahaha

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I should sell T-shirts with big letters that say: THERE ARE NO SIMPLE ANSWERS 😂

By the way, that Vornado fan is great. Nicely adjustable and relatively quiet. Well worth the extra cost compared to a Chinese throw-away, loud fan.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Agreed! And it’s very consistent, too.

Before i start this, i wanted to say i realized any interference with a flame source will cause more fuel to be consumed. even the slightest draft barely noticable, pushes the flame around. any time your flame moves, it will pull an equal amount of that motion out of the fuel. just like a torch, the more air, hotter flame, more combustion = more fuel consumption. any time you hear that torch like sound the little whoosh, on the propane flame, you're wasting fuel. i make coffee on a propane stove every day. if i do it outside, it consumes twice as much fuel, as it dies out in half the time due to wind, which obviously is more than substantial lol blocking the wind is extremely powerful, not just for convenience as we think of it. can't wait to watch this! 😅

Have to say that your videos are by far the most interesting videos I’ve seen and I don’t mean just on KZread. Been working myself in R&D so I totally get all the trials and the results. Thank you.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Much appreciated! Thank you!

Wet thoughtful to add the Italian subtitles.

Ok, so how about different fuels...? I hate canisters and am building cat can/double wall stoves to avoid dealing with my fear of all things pressurized. A lighter is about all I am prepared to handle. (This series has made me fall madly in love with the methods and OCD going on here, thank you for going nutso for all of us!)

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! I do have plans to add alcohol stoves to the testing series. But, heat exchanger pots are next.

I love your tests! Is there any synergy between using the Simmershield (without base) AND the Ocelot Mini? I keep thinking that channeling heat up the sides of the pot must be more efficient (b/c more surface area heated). It should do part/most of the job of a heat exchanger with less weight.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Interesting. I’m not sure they’d fit together, but you can adjust the SimmerShield to ride the pot at different heights. I do think an overall taller screen could help get you both wind protection at the bottom and pot cradling up top, but you end up with something that won’t fit inside the pot. That turns a lot of people off.

This sounds like we need a large pot wind screen designed for the BRS.

can you do a test on how much you can safely overfill an empty fuel canister. i usually get 5 weeks off of work. i take those 5 weeks all at once and go backpacking all over the adirondacks. my car is my resupply point. ill keep a fresh big canister in my car and refill my canister when i go to resupply. im confident i can refill my small canister significantly higher than their normal brand new weight. obviously more gas will help with the reduced efficiency in windy conditions

Absolutely no clue how well any of this applies to me since I'm using a pillbottle stone alcohol stove but a great series regardless.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Eventually, I plan to add alcohol stoves to the series. Once all the baselines for canister stoves are established, it will allow some good comparisons. Heat exchanger pots are next, though!

@ryan92084

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic very cool. The pillbottle stone stove is pretty unique.

Love your work and dedication... Thank you for the innumerable hours on and off screen to give us work that will last the rest of our hiking lives 🥾🏞️

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

You are most welcome! It’s all worth if it helps!

great video! have you considered testing the trangia system?

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I do have plans to add alcohol stoves to the series, but heat exchanger pots are next.

Nice video and thanks for the info. Would love to see how a standard aluminum folding screen would do. They seem to be about 6 or 9 inches high and have several panels that can partially or fully enclose a burner.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Those are heavy. Heavier than stove+pot+titanium screen together. Also, ground-standing screens will trap the canister itself inside. You’d want to be careful about overheating that pressurized fuel container.

@seanadams2391

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Yeah 4-6 oz for the 6 inch high ones, and should go remote canister or use direct canister in short bursts. Cheap though, at $10 bucks. Still would like to see how the cheap and simple solution stacks up. KISS methods is best I find. Would like to see if it holds true here.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I do have a remote canister stove and a couple of ground-sitting screens. I’m curious, too. I will get to it one of these days!

Are you Don Lincoln from Fermilab in disguise? I'm waiting for a "physics is everything!".

Nice video, but you're costing me money in the short run ... I just ordered the Ocelot mini (I wish mailing it to Canada wasn't so expensive, although I guess it makes my wallet lighter). And I put one of those pasteurization indicator things in my wish list on Amazon... can you tell I'm binging on your older content, too?

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I can’t be held liable for gear mania!

Excellent work as usual. (not wanting to be THAT guy but) I know you have used the low-down adapter but when I weighed a canister stabiliser vs having a remote-canister stove, the weight addition was small AND I found the pot lower, hence the flame is lower hence ground effect lower average wind. My canister stabiliser I got from a Jetboil Sol Ti is 28.8g. My BRS-3000T is 26.2g. So stove+stabiliser = 55g. My FMS-117T is 106g, so 51g more but is lower down and even more stable. So does that lower position = less wind = more efficient? Also as the canister is remote you have more options to more enclose the flame around a pot? For 30 years I carried a Trangia 27 602g so I just got more bruised hips from the backpack, I guess.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I do have a remote canister stove to test with a full-wrap screen that can just sit on the ground. Also, working on a DIY attachable titanium screen. The LowDown adapters are just for testing. Never take one in the field.

@GeekfromYorkshire

5 ай бұрын

You don't have to do the tests again just put your wind meter at different heights, ideally over grass or the typical surface you cook. You should see a ground effect drag and so infer the performance improvement. And I agree the weight saving of just use what you have to shield wind. Something wider has less wind so a low down flame behind a wide obstruction by you own tests should be then getting wind to the low speeds then your test results at lower speeds applies.@@GearSkeptic

It seems that FlatCat gear only makes the Ocelot Max for the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe and not the Soto Windmaster - I wonder why that is?

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

Because we introduced the Ocelot 6 for pots up to 6" in diamter.

I would love to see some info on UL alcohol stoves as well

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Yes! Heat exchanger pots are next, but alcohol stoves are on the list.

I would like to see a comparison of types of metal cookware and efficiency. Aluminum, stainless and titanium.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Agreed! It is on the list, but heat exchanger pots are next 🤓

with the Optimus windshield, as i've picked one up a month ago, I've noticed the heat shield does get hot enough that I'm wondering if it' warms up the canister in some way shape or form or not (I've not used it long enough to notice if it does). What I'm wondering is, would the Optimus windshield be a good way to have both; wind protection and as a way to warm up the canister for cold weather performance? I've seen modifications where there is a stainless steel strip or titanium strip that is fed from the burner and taped/ strapped to the canister body and further wrapped with a coozie to warm up the canister.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Good question. I haven’t had the chance to check on canister warming strategies.

@wanttogo1958

5 ай бұрын

@Shveet the strip is called a Moulder strip. It works best if it’s made of copper. Search for that term, Moulder, and select the search result at Backpacking Light. The post of the person by that name who explained how to use one safely and effectively is a short read but very informative. You don’t have to be a member of Backpacking Light to read the post.

I would like to know if the Oscelot Original fits both the BRS3000 and Windmaster 3 flex. The attachment seems so similar for multiple three foot stoves

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Good question. I don’t have the original model. I bet Jon at Flat Cat Gear could tell you!

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

In the standard Ocelot line, each burner plate must be customized to a particular stove. The plate for the BRS is not compatible with the Soto 3 Flex. Best regards.

Hi! Thanks a lot for content! What about testing with wind like 10-20mph+? Because as I see on practice, it's unusable conditions for BRS and very important to recommend people ignore this stove for hikes with wind like this(or vice versa - destroy my impressions by tests😄). In most mountain hiking places on earth wind like 5-10mph it's basic speed 24\7. Rarely less, often more.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

My strategy in that strong wind would be to use additional wind-blocking like setting up some backpacks, using my body, or perhaps my tent for protection. I want to get the wind speed at the pot lower than 10mph before relying on screens like these.

This should be a university course

I'm curious if you have any results about total system efficiency of boiling larger volumes of water. For example if you were in a group of 2 or 3 people, what are the tradeoffs of using a bigger pot to boil enough water for two or three meals (or meal plus hot drink) vs having to boil the same total water volume in multiple batches with smaller pots.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Not yet! On my list is a test series of alternate containers including aluminum, steel, and shapes like kettles and large pots.

Thank you sir for your work

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

You’re very welcome! Glad if it can help.

With the Ocelot Mini released for PRD recently, do you think it would work better than Ocelot Max or worse?

@GearSkeptic

Ай бұрын

That’s a tough one, sort of apples-to-oranges because the Max is for bigger pots.

What I'd be interested in is to see whether aluminum foil would help and what shape and size would be best. Alumin foil being multipose and all.

Absolutely love the content. Take as much time as you need but I really want to see the heat exchanger stoves tested, as a mechanical engineering student I want to design my own heat exchanger stove system and 3d print it out of titanium

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks, and heat exchangers are next! Already gathering equipment.

What about heat exchanger? Doth it worth to have it for a long trip?

I wonder how aluminum would fair in place of titanium, in terms of weight, durability and cost. Will you do DIY equipment and figure out how many more boils one would get by spending money saved with a DIY shield on fuel canisters? Or would that be irrelevant since weight is the primary consideration?

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I am playing around with a DIY screen. Someday, I’d also like to test the difference between titanium, aluminum, and steel pots. Heat exchangers are my next project, and those are all aluminum.

It looks like the simmershield floor was obstructing the brs burner throat holes to some extent. Couldn't get a real good view but possibly physically blocking them where it attaches to the stove, or at least restricting fresh air ingress by somewhat isolating them into the same combustion chamber which is far less of an issue with the other designs.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

It is tough to tell from that side view, because the floor is bowl-shaped. It actually does fit below those holes. Watch at 15:20 and you get a brief view inside the bowl where you can see the holes are technically clear.

I've wondered for a long time if it's possible to get a windscreen made of an insulating material. I think that any heat gained by the windscreen is wasted heat, heat that could be gained by the pot that you're boiling the water in. If the windscreen was insulating, at least some of that extra heat would be absorbed by the pot and make the entire system more efficient. Just about every windscreen I've ever seen is made out of aluminum which is a great conductor of heat. Has anyone seen a windscreen made of something that doesn't actually absorb heat? What do you think?

I wonder if "ground supported" windscreens like the toaks titanium one (14g!) Handle higher wind better.

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

A concern with a ground screen on a canister stove is the idea of trapping the fuel inside, creating a possible overheating and explosion risk. That’s why I didn’t try that out here. I do have an ultralight remote canister stove, though. Eventually, I will try that out with the remote burner fully shielded with a ground screen.

@allwaysareup

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic I have definitely felt the top of the canister get warm-hot using the screen. It's weird I've never heard of the explosion risk. I've always assumed it was IR, so probably able to be mitigated. Maybe some

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

It’s one of those internet warnings. I have an infrared thermometer. One of these days I should run some consecutive boils and check can temperature as it goes.

How do alcohol stoves stack against these gas canisters? Are they worse in the wind? More helped by windscreens? Could be a future research project :)

@GearSkeptic

4 ай бұрын

Yah. I’m working on heat exchangers right now, but alcohol stoves are on the list.

@christopherrowley7506

4 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic awesome! Thanks for the reply

Wait, my MSR whisperlite came with an aluminium shield. It is starting to wear out, but I’ve had it for a decade. I never run the stove without it. I don’t believe in disposable propane cans.

Would drilling small holes, say one millimetre, help feed air into the flame at a lower enough velocity to help orevent the oxygen starvation issue? Asking for a friend

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

I’m going to have to do some DIY tinkering!

@awatt

5 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Sorry 😔

@finnfolcwalding8059

5 ай бұрын

At 1mm probably not. Based on the unscientific testing I've seen done on home brewed sheet aluminium wind shields. We had to get to 8 or 10mm before it wasn't obvious the shield was choking the flame.

I'd love to hear how a pot with a heat exchanger does. There are claims that it's 20-40% more efficient, with the most frequent being around 30%. At least for the setup I'm considering (toaks 900ml vs Fire-Maple 1L with heat exchanger both 115mm diameter), there's 65g weight penalty, but for a thru-hike that means less time carrying two canisters (one full, one almost empty). It's totally unclear when this efficiency gain actually happens. Is it dependent on stove/burner size, wind, or flame power? Intuitively it will have the highest impact with a lot of flame going up the sides, so some combination of big burner, small pot, high wind and high flame, but is it irrelevant if you cook with a small burner (ie brs or pocket rocket) at low power with a wide pot (say >115mm as you found was enough) and a wind screen?

@GearSkeptic

4 ай бұрын

Great questions! As it happens, I’m actually working on heat exchangers right now.

@tewalds

4 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Amazing! Any idea when that will come out? I need to decide what to buy in the next week or so... Relatedly, after watching this windscreen video, I realized there's a 3-prong version of the Soto Windmaster which also gets it pretty competitive weight wise to the BRS with light windscreen, and certainly better than the PocketRocket.

@GearSkeptic

4 ай бұрын

I have the Soto TriFlex. It’s nice. Unfortunately, it will probably take at least a few weeks. Lots of boils to do, then graphing, analysis, making slides, writing script, filming, and then all that editing 😵‍💫

@FlatCatGear

4 ай бұрын

@@tewalds Since time is of the essence for you, let me add some information here. If an HX is more fuel efficient what does that mean? Well (in calm conditions), let’s say that you boil 2 cups of water in a standard mug and use 7 grams of fuel, and then switching to an HX pot the fuel usage is 5 grams. That is a 2-grams saving or 28.57%. If 2 grams (in calm conditions) per boil is important then it may matter. What for GearSkeptic’s full video to see a fuller, more detailed picture. My 2 cents.

@tewalds

4 ай бұрын

@@FlatCatGear The claim is simple, as you say. The subtleties really matter though. I have read/watched quite a few pages/videos about this and many do some basic test, but none have been done with anywhere close to the rigour that @gearskeptic6355 has used in this series. They use some random pots that aren't directly comparable, often with different stoves, usually at full throttle (ie low efficiency according to video 1 of this series, and again incomparable with different stoves). My hunch is that the efficiency bump is more like 5-10% for low fuel rate with a narrow flame on a wide pot in low wind, plausibly closer to 30% at high fuel rates, and as high as 50% in the extreme situations (big flame, small pot, high wind). My guess of the conclusion is: are you willing to carry the extra weight to get the same fuel use but with 50-70% the boil time? If so, get the heat exchanger, if not, don't. I'm looking forward to seeing the actual evidence though. One thing that would be amazing to see is the actual efficiency percentage (ie joules going into the water (should be constant) vs joules in the fuel (depends on fuel rate and time)).

Alright, but the main reason I switched from a BRS to a Soto Windmaster is the regulator that maintains consistent output in cold weather. I think it’s worth testing in more real world conditions close to freezing.

You can make a much more effective windscreen diy from aluminum from the bottom of a dollar store aluminum tray and a paper clip. Make the screen so it fully wraps around your pot plus an inch or so more. Hole punch air holes in the bottom of the screen only 1/2" up from the bottom. Wrap around cooking set up with space and paper clip at set circumference. Works great, costs about $1 and very light.

Higher altitude, colder weather, colder water and colder surface temperatures might all point to the MSR Pocket Rocket Deluxe as the stove of choice with its built in regulator. It is consoling to see that the BRS (prefer the Fire Maple version myself although it is slightly heavier and a little more expensive) with windscreen is a viable choice ,if managed, in windy conditions.

@FlatCatGear

5 ай бұрын

FYI Ocelot Minis are a subset of the Ocelot Family. In the Standard Series, we do support the Fire Maple 300t as well as the new Fire Maple Hornet II. Best regards.

@wanttogo1958

5 ай бұрын

@@FlatCatGearthanks for the input. This is good to know.

You buy all your gear at full price with no discounts of any kind? Mad lad! At least wait til things go on sale 😂

I can't remember if I mentioned before, but I did similar tests with alcohol stoves and a couple of wind shield combinations. kzread.info/dash/bejne/i6yCybuzccqxlrg.htmlsi=J3_yi0s7ZKQMMfPS I'll be interested to compare the weight of fuel being used. I have a BRS but couldn't get near my alcohol setup when there was wind. And I generally prefer alcohol. Might pick up one of the Ocelot wind shields though, incase I end up using the BRS any time. Thanks for another superb video! Definitely the Gold standard!

Up next, alcohol stoves?!?

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Well, heat exchangers are next. But, alcohol is on the list!

While your information on the increase of efficiency was to the point and helpful to understand the effects of this wind screen, I don't understand why you felt the need to mount the BRS-3000T on the MSR lowdown. Anyone concerned about weight would never add a 6 ounce stove stand to a one ounce stove, and it just creates a distraction for the viewers of this video. Furthermore, I'd guess that 90% of the viewers would rather not watch your finger gestures for 40 minutes. Aside from those two issues your presentation was brilliant.

@GearSkeptic

Ай бұрын

The LowDowns are not for field use. They are for flow rate regulation during testing. Methodology is described more fully in Part 1. As stated at the beginning of this video, I always recommend you watch them in order, as each video builds upon concepts introduced previously.

The summetshield doesn't have enough room for the heat to rise. Made worse with wind, forcing the flame to go downward with heat expansion as gas burns. I get the strength of titanium but it doesn't transfer heat from flame to inside liquid as efficiently as aluminum. I'm curious what a heat exchanger style pot of a jet boil used with a BRS stove would do.

Now ...how about heat exchangers? 😂

In addition to flame quality vs wind there’s also a lot of conductive heat loss from the shield and pot metal to the cold air passing by. Maybe a fiberglass wind screen would be better than titanium? Basically it needs an insulated jacket in addition to blocking the wind.

1) If curved-upward floor decreases performance, then might it make sense to flip it upside-down to increase performance? 2) Caldera-Cone? Seems like a nice calm or low-speed vertical laminar-flow along the side(s) of the pot is the holy-grail? Trap maximum heat around the sides of a pot to maximize heat transfer. If the bottom of 550ml pot is 95mm (Dia), then surface area is 7k mm^2. Add side-wall to the heat-transfer equation for another 23k mm^2, more than three-times the bottom heating surface area. Just as a wider pot-bottom heats more efficiently (due to larger heated-surface-area), so would heating the sides of the pot (e.g. w/ Caldera-Cone.). (more...) However, Caldera-cone isn't the only way to heat the sides. It may not even be the best way to heat the pot sides. As posted previously, this author's best results were by using thin (1/4") white wood-stove insulation (rated to 2,200°F) surrounded by 0.005" Titanium-sheet. Insulation pressed against the pot-sidewall provided the dual benefit of trapping heat, while allowing sufficient airflow to maintain high-temperatures. All from heat that would normally be wasted anyway. The insulated shield weighs less than an ounce. Presumably, Caldera-Cone could be designed to hold a similar temperature profile against the pot-sidewall, but suspect that aspect has not been optimized for the Caldera, since there's no sign of engineered exhaust at the top of the Cone? Nevertheless, Caldera-Cone has the advantage of optimizing pot distance from the burner. Pot-to-burner distance is likewise not set to optimal height for any commercial gas-canister stove, due to wind considerations. Suspect the optimal burner-pot distance in zero wind (such as under a Caldera-Cone) is between 1" & 2". Caldera-Cone has the added advantage of being available commercially. Great job, btw.

@wanttogo1958

5 ай бұрын

The Caldera Cone is a great solution for use with an alcohol burner creating a stove solution. I think it would be dangerous, if not death defying, to use one with a canister stove as the cone is currently designed. Could you design one with a large cutout to be placed downwind so as to release heat to avoid overheating the canister? Maybe but it would be risky and no one is going to sell something like that intended for that use because of the liability. My guess anyway. It would certainly require testing and you never want to totally isolate the fuel regulating valve on a canister stove in case you need to use it.

@tomnoyb8301

5 ай бұрын

@@wanttogo1958 Obviously one would need larger air intakes at the bottom to prevent the canister from overheating (because Caldera-cone is designed for alcohol-stoves). Likewise one would require a taller cone (since canister stoves are much taller than alcohol stoves). Not only is the canister-stove taller, but virtually every canister-stove would function better with an increased stove-to-pot distance. Original-post goes on to suggest even lighter-weight solutions than the cone. Caldera-cone is merely the jumping-off point for considering the optimal windscreen design.

Because I'm a tightwad, my issue with the Ocelot Mini is that it costs twice as much as the BRS3000T stove, itself.