Everyone needs to spread these videos far and wide in every forum, subreddit, Facespace group, etc. This info is solid gold and we're lucky to have it. Thank you, GearSkeptic!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much! I really appreciate that.

@BestFeminist

2 жыл бұрын

Trued to describe this channel to a high level backpacking friend last year (also why I was optimizing food), but he assumed it was things that he had already heard, where I feel these discussions gives new light to important health topics. Still haven't figured out how to describe it best

@wanderingcalamity360

2 жыл бұрын

I've been doing just that. This is all outstanding information.

@BurroGirl

2 жыл бұрын

Amen!!

@therandomdickhead5744

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Everyone could benefit from eating and drinking better.

The more I hike, the more I appreciate these videos. As a physician, I just want to say that they are well researched, beautifully organized and clearly presented. They just blow me away; pure gold . Thank you so much for all you put into these videos; they are just IMPRESSIVE, from A to Z.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! That means a lot to me.

Videos like these is why the internet was invented. Outstanding effort and incredibly useful for everyday life. Thank you!

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Much appreciated and very glad to help! Thanks!

This 4 part series should be essential watching for anyone wanting to dramatically improve their hiking. W A R N I N G your brain is going to explode if you watch more than 2, luckily you learned to drink a proper recovery drink and can continue with limited damage.

Best backpacking channel, hands down. Thank you for presenting this invaluable information!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad I could help.

I can't thank you enough for making this series, as an avid hiker I have learned a lot and I am only up to Part 4 ! This part in itself showed me exactly where I went wrong last year and had to drop off trail after only 4 hours ( in 90 degree heat )... People LISTEN TO THIS MAN, often times water alone IS NOT ENOUGH !

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I appreciate that. Always glad to hear that it may have helped!

I've found using my wedding ring and fingertips as a hydration/electrolyte balance gauge is a great technique. If my wedding ring seems tight, electrolytes are on order. If my fingertips seem "dry" then water is in order, even if I don't feel thirsty. It's not perfect, but it helps.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

I like it!

Great stuff! When the project is complete, I would love a summary of summaries - "how to use the chart" in one video

Great video! Your format reminds me of “This Old Tony”. Similar hands & black long sleeve setup. You’re both also very knowledgeable. I love it.

One big takeaway for me was the matrix of conditions and how your body knows what to do through how good salty foods taste. If you crave salty foods when hiking, eat them!

Finally, I found the secret to falling asleep fast. I watched this video every night for a week and fell asleep in under 3 minutes every night.

I have seen the 4 videos in a Row, they have so little visits for the awesome they are, I will recomend them to my friends. Thank you very much for all the information 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

@AllThingsConsidered333

10 ай бұрын

I also will be passing these on to my sis & her husband. I go hiking sometimes with my sis (when she’s not working or out of the country) She is ER nurse and he is anesthesiology nurse. Currently they are training for trip to Burma in January on medical mission trip- have to hike over a small mountain twice carrying about 40 lbs and it’s pretty hot weather there. She accumulates A Lot of salt on her skin when she sweats! More than anyone I’ve ever seen! And she doesn’t eat very salty foods either

Water Retention Meter!! Cracked me up...your wife sure does care about your hydration! Seriously great series of videos.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I appreciate it.

Love the "ring indicator" idea for checking for dehydration. I had no idea there was more than one type. I ordered some electrolyte pills, to have on hand, as well as a WAPI. Great way to save fuel and the presentation was excellent on it, I know it doesn't belong here, but figured while I am rambling.

Thanks for this. You have changed what I eat on the trail. In fact, on a backpacking trip this week I had the exact same flavors of Nature Valley biscuits and Clif Nut Butter bars as you showed at 46:45. You are a bona fide Influencer. Thanks!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Very kind of you to say! Thanks much!

Man! The rabbit holes GOES DEEP! 🤯👏 🍻

I just discovered you Chanel recently through your backpacking fact checking series and now that I'm looking into your Chanel its amazing how interesting and fact based your videos are big props to you, genuinely one of the better Chanel's for backpacking if you want real fact based info that is "real". Props to you!

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

Thanks! Much appreciated. It’s hardly perfect, but I try!

I know others have said it but I couldn't leave without thanking GearSkeptic for this fantastic video series. Thanks so much for your hard work and skeptical approach!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Very kind of you to say! Thank you.

Lectures on hydration and electrolyte replacement are huge for me personally. I have had “heat” episodes (profuse sweats, cramping of arms, legs and back, feinting, vomiting, extreme fatigue and brain fog) over a lifetime of long distance exercises, long, fast road marches in the Infantry, long distance swimming in college and marathons in middle age. Was told it was a fluid problem. Apparently, it’s an electrolyte problem too. Thank you for sharing the best information ever. I’m gonna do the PCT, Spring, ‘23. Your lectures are right on time. Thank you so much. Kentucky elder. 😊

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

I am very glad to help, and thanks! I’ve also had some of those issues with cramping, feeling light headed. Paying attention to my hydration status has definitely helped!

This is fantastic!! Sodium gets so overlooked when it comes to performance and dehydration!

Excellent summary - you can count on that I'll put it to good use this coming hiking season! Big thanx from snowy ❄️🌨️ Sweden ;)

Thanks a lot for this video series and the chart. As a scientist myself I really appreciate the effort you made to put all this information together. It is a really valuable resource.

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Also, I just uploaded a Part 5, if you are interested. It furthers the electrolyte discussion and adds a sodium-potassium calculator to the chart, which now has an electrolyte sheet with 138 supplements to choose from.

@RicardoHernandez77

Жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Definitely interested! I'm watching it right now. Thanks!

Thank you so much for all the time and effort you've put into these videos, they are incredible.

@GearSkeptic

Ай бұрын

You are very welcome! I hope it helps.

As a long time KZread user and someone who will proudly use affiliate links for good creators I implore you to create, at the least, an Amazon list of items that fit the Ultralight-very light items. You deserve more cash flow from this incredible good content.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Much appreciated, but not necessary! I’ll keep grinding away on new topics just as soon as I get my new workshop set up (we just moved).

I only walk 5 - 10 miles, but I do it every day. I count steps just walking my kids to school and stuff, this information is useful even for me. More of an urban hiker.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

I’m very glad if it can help!

So glad I stumbled upon this series! Thank you so much for clarification on such a complex topic.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Most welcome! And, thank you!

All of your work is highly appreciated!!!! Your awesome!!!

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much! I am glad if any of it can help.

His hands are very knowledgeable.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I’m one of those people. If you cut off my hands, I wouldn’t be able to talk 😜

@jameshenry1285

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic LOL. Thanks for these very helpful videos, especially the electrolyte replacement ones. I'm tired of lugging 10 lbs of water up a steep mountain, as it seems, the more I carry, the more I sweat and need to carry. Electrolyte replacement will prove to end the vicious cycle.

I hiked across Kyushu a few years back, 16 hrs a day, and found myself craving salty kimchi sauce slathered noodles a lot. I can see why now. I'll definitely be using your videos' advice for when I hike all the way across Japan in the near future!

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like an awesome trip!

Incredible presentation. Thanks so much. In all my long distance hikes I was lucky to have gotten things right kind of by accident.

incredible amount of info on all your videos. I have learned so much!!

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

I’m so glad, and I really do appreciate that!

What a GREAT video! Thank you for putting in this work.

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

You’re very welcome!

We appreciate YOUR time

DOING THE LORD'S WORK

Great videos. Before this didn't really think about food i take with me on hike, except how cheap and easy it was. Made own food chart based on your chart, since my country doesn't have almost any of food listed in your chart. Also bought some electrolyte tablets (what mixes with water) to work, since i tend to sweat for hours during workdays (summer at least). Now i have them always with me where ever i go. These videos really changed so much how i think about nutrition and not just like "do this, don't do this" but gave tools to evaluate things by myself.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

That is very nice of you to say, and I’m really glad to help!

Great information. Thank you for making and sharing this video!

@GearSkeptic

8 ай бұрын

You are welcome!

Yay, I love the salt stix foil pack with the hard tablets inside. I find them to be my "Go To" as well.

Awesome. Totally anecdotal, but after some painful cramps and also hyponatremic issues during some long ultra races I realized salt caps work the best for me too. Btw, you also cracked me up with the 'WHO" formula. :)

Between college years, I used to have a summer job doing landscaping and sometimes worked 16 hour days. I would tell my mom that my sweat turned into salt crystals right on my arms and back and she would not believe me! But she did pack bananas and almonds into my lunch - so she did know some things!

Thank you very much for this video. I learned a lot!!!

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

You are most welcome!

Awesome info 👍 Thank you

Amazing video, you are very logical. A tip for you that I know. If in your lifestyle (not hiking) you consume very little salt everyday (1000 - 2000 unit of NA if I remember it is called na) and you consume adeguate potassium everyday (minimum 4.000 unit a day of potassium), after some time your sweat will be way less saltier. Some people (fruitarians for example) who consume very little salt, have zero salt in their sweat (but they can still be "healty" by electrolite terms because they generally consume adeguate potassium with their diet.) In this way when you will be hiking you will lose way less salt with your sweat and you will be safer from electrolite problems. Thanks for your video I really want to watch more, I can like and sub but I cannot do more

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I have heard of this. I also read that training in hot weather will also increase the body’s acclimation to salt loss. Thanks!

Watching this, I'm reminded of high school classes where I grasped the concept quickly and was ready to move further along, but the slower kids were looking confused, so the teacher lowered the learning pace down to a crawl.

Managing my electrolytes is absolutely the most difficult part of hiking, as it seems very easy for me to get heat exhaustion. I've noticed that I can drink a lot of water and it will just sit in my stomach and go nowhere. I've upped my use of electrolyte tablets, but even using electrolyte tablets it seems easy for me to get dehydrated. It seems from watching this, I'm probably not eating enough salty foods, b/c I don't eat a lot of salty food in general.

Thank You for the New Chart 🤪

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Most welcome!

I will have to watch this video several more time & make notes / screenshots (maybe) to learn all the appropriate numbers & strategies that u have suggested but a BIG take away from this video is the wearing of a ring to help me know when I am retaining water. Currently I do not wear a ring especially when hiking cause I was always afraid I would not be able to remove the ring when my fingers swell. Thx for your insight. I can always count on learning about my body each time I watch ur videos…

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Since then, I also did and Advanced Electrolyte Supplementation video to help with the actual selection of electrolyte mixes. There is a new tab in the food chart just for electrolytes, and a calculator to help you tune your selection based on what you have in your menu plan. Hope it helps!

@AllThingsConsidered333

10 ай бұрын

Same! Downloaded the series to listen to when on the road or when taking a walk around town. Also thinking maybe I should start wearing a ring while hiking…

Favorite glucose recovery treat. Mt. Dew is the nectar of the gods.

This is great information. I struggle with leg cramps when hiking and running. Best products I have found so far are Tailwind and LMNT. LMNT is far and away the superior product, but not very affordable.

Amazing work ! One of the best video series ive seen on youtube. Thx! I noticed u dont have any dried veggies, bitter greens / superfood powders in your charts, fruit leather ? … could you talk about these in a future vid please ? Thank u !

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I have been updating the chart since the videos. I did add dried fruits and veggies (check the freeze dried meals tab, as they are from the same vendors). I will check out superfood powders. Thanks!

The first part of the video had me convinced I am going to die on my next hike. :) The rest assured me I'm not.

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Whatever you do, don’t die out there! 😉

@cgmiller82

Жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic I never wear my wedding ring... I might start. :)

Love the zig zag run.

So it's been almost 20 years since I read Jardine's book and I may be miss-remembering, but I seem to recall him espousing drinking absolute tons of water until you pee clear and frequent. He also talked about having to loosen his watchband and put on a second bigger pair of shoes partway through the day. If I remember correctly, he thought swinging his arms all day made them swell. This was my first backpacking book and I just assumed this was fact and happened to all hikers. I'm pretty sure John Z., Jupiter, and many many others put in much longer days than Jardine was doing and I've never once heard anyone else talk about having to loosen anything during the day. Your info suggests Ray was probably flushing out his electrolytes and causing swelling. In Vonhof's Fixing Your Feet he explains (paraphrasing from memory) that lack of electrolytes causes swelling in the extremities and the increased intracellular fluid makes your skin layers more likely to separate. The physical swelling is likely to make your shoes fit tighter causing hot spots, friction, shear, and eventually blisters on the skin that's now more fragile than it would normally be. I don't wear a watch or ring, I wonder if I can mark a bit of pack strap or something as a measuring tape. I'm not clear if the circumference of my wrist or fingers would change by anything obvious, or would I be trying to measure a fraction of a millimeter in change?

@GQGeek81

3 жыл бұрын

I had to go dig out my copy of Beyond Backpacking to make sure I wasn't being unfair to Jardine. From the '99 edition on p.204 are now cringe worthy nuggets like, "water is the best re-hydrator", "excreted salt is toxin" and you'll get "electrolytes in abundance from your food" or "the idea that we need salt is a myth" and he goes on to suggest drinking a quart of apparently plain water an hour. Elsewhere he mentions drinking 3 gallons of water a day while hiking through a desert region. I hope I'm missing the parts where he consumed some form of electrolytes, but it doesn't readily come up with a glance through the index. I believe he did suggest people drink an Emergen-C pack every morning, but that appears to have only 65mg of sodium per serving. I don't see the section where he changed shoes, but he does recommend buying shoes larger than you need. I know people's feet get bigger during a long hike. I haven't done a thorough the hike, but during a busy hiking season or two, my feet certainly changed sizes years ago and never went back. What he's suggesting is specifically accounting for daily swelling and he goes on to specify having shoes even bigger (2.5 sizes bigger!) if the environment will be hot. As accomplished as Jardine is, one wonders how much more he could have done with a more reasonable hydration strategy.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Sometimes I wear a watch while hiking, one of those Casio pieces so I can play with the barometer and “altimeter”. I have noticed the same tightness in my wrist as with a ring on my finger. I think a string or strap might work on either. Should be snug to start, though. Hard to tell “loose” from “less loose”, but snug to tight registers pretty well. And I’ve learned to buy my hiking shoes a half-size larger than my street shoes.

I’ve been using the SaltStick capsules too. There fine. The jar of Keto K1000 tastes good too.

My hands swell when I hike and I’ve always attributed it to the swinging of my hands and blood accumulation in my extremities. I know there’s a lot of swollen feet in the thru hiking community that sometimes people need larger shoes after time on the trail. I’ll have to start paying more attention to the swelling and test to see if it still occurs when I supplement sodium. Thanks for all your work on this!

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

You’re most welcome! I hope it helps.

You just told me that I wasn't crazy when I felt like water was going through me when I was still thirsty, at summer camps, on day hikes, while traveling, at home in the summer, which was always frustrating and uncomfortable and left me with confusing headaches. Why have I never heard of this before? It seems like basic common sense public health information now, but all I've ever heard about salt on that front is "everyone eats too much" and that my "healthy" snacks with low salt were the right choices and to "drink water"... because ~everyone knows~, salt dehydrates you more.... I'm grateful to this channel but annoyed that this information about taking care of myself every day was not accessible to me before. It would have saved so much literal headache. Paired with the other videos about the role of fats and high glycemic sugars as fuel and recovery, I'm feeling some way about a lot of nutrition messaging I've received over the years. There is no "bad food", is there? My body wants these demonized things--fat, simple sugar, salt--for a reason, and I need to provide them when context demands, which is a LOT less rare than I thought with the nutrition messaging in my education.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

We should come with instruction manuals ☺️

@pell222

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic I did a whole semester of desert hikes in los angeles and thought that my hands just ~naturally~ swelled a ton and i felt terrible and couldn't hear clearly "when i work out" because I was out of shape 😭 i even had an instructor, who is one of the many people who never mentioned any of this to me (with every first aid certification instructor ive had, all of which included heat injury treatment) and just said ~drink water~. in. the san gabriels. mountainous desert. doing fast hikes up and down. with No shade. Only an hour at a time, but still! It was supposed to get me doing it on my own more often, but my takeaway was that I was naturally unfit for that activity and did not attempt a hike again for SIX YEARS. Since i found this video I have just continuously discovered annoying little lifelong symptoms that correlate to warmth or exertion that I always thought were my own natural deficiencies for being lazy and out of shape and blamed myself for, of course every one of them got worse with exertion and made me want to do it even less. Every one of them clears up quickly with electrolytes. I got some salt stick caps and carry them now. This is a major quality of life shift for me (not to mention the danger I would have been in during a 14 mile Rainier hike I did during this week's PNW heatwave) and I feel like writing a letter to every one of those physical health instructors who let me down here. Ughhhhh. My debilitating, trip-ruining headaches (resistant to pain medication), gone. Urinary frequency, normal. Inner ear problems! evaporated! I can HEAR normally, consistently! It's like if those first aid certification classes had only ever told me to elevate a wound without ever saying anything about putting pressure on it... and I got a huge scrape every single time I was outside for over an hour, 3 seasons of the year, and dutifully elevated it while blood dripped down my arm and I blamed myself for still bleeding. Especially considering that my LA hiking symptoms indicated the beginning of heat injury that, as I know now, is not treatable with just water, I just don't understand why this was some huge secret through all of K-12 PE and Health, various urban first aid certs, and several collegiate (but not competitive) sports classes. No one said anything other than more "low sodium=healthy (: drink water" . Where did everybody else learn about this??

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I basically started my research from zero to see what I could find, rather than rely on an existing training package (which in my view would just be regurgitating somebody else’s work). I’m very glad if it has helped!

@AllThingsConsidered333

10 ай бұрын

We have been lied to and misled so much regarding what foods are really healthy and beneficial as well as many other things relating to health… and then yes, the folks lower on the totem pole just regurgitate what the higher powers feed them down the line. And studies can be manipulated, and it’s been discovered that studies will be buried if the results show something other than what was intended (like the study about saturated fats vs seed oils that was recently discovered buried in a basement of one of the researchers.. when asked why it wasn’t published “because it showed a different result than what we wanted” They wanted to show that seed oils were so much healthier than saturated animal fats.. but seed oils ended up increasing all cause mortality by a considerable amount. Dr Ken Berry talks about this and I think also Dr Anthony Chaffee does too.. I’ve learned that pretty much whatever the mainstream says is good, I do the opposite bcs that’s actually what is good for my health and well-being esp regarding food

Also, water in the lungs can transpire as you breath. That's why some experts recommend breathing through your nose in hot/dry climate as it can make a measurable difference.

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Yes! I recently posted the Part 5 in this series, and it contains a section on where body water goes including respiratory loss. It addresses the issue of altitude and increased hydration needs, as well. Also, if it’s important like in very cold climates, put a cloth over your mouth (a buff, neck gaiter, or balaclava). Breathing through (both in and out) will help conserve both warmth and moisture, using the counter-current principle.

No way, I always wondered why my hands and fingers tend to swell up a bunch during hikes, I had no idea that was caused by electrolyte imbalance! Interesting!

I have greatly enjoyed the series of nutrition for hiking. Looking forward to the water purification. I will most likely buy some Saltstick for the convenience I also like tinkering with with homemade. I am trying to figure out measurements for Himalayan salt (I don’t mind a salting taste for cycling) , Cream of tarter (for potassium) Natural Vitality Calm ( for Magnesium), and I haven’t come up with a good calcium. Wanted to get your thought on this. Thanks again for the videos.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I never made a formal spreadsheet, but I did a quick look at it. Basically, what I found was that since both calcium and magnesium were needed in smaller doses, needs there were largely covered by the foods in my diet. It was mostly the sodium and potassium that I might need to supplement in sweatier scenarios.

@robertdodd508

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for taking the time to respond and for the information.

This all needs to be on tedtalk!

You should check out Morton's Lite Salt as an option for Potassium supplementation. It's approximately 50/50 NaCl and KCl and it's one of the most affordable sources of supplemental dietary potassium I've ever found.

@GearSkeptic

9 ай бұрын

Good tip. Thanks!

@nathanbailey9153

9 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic And then I watched the next video in the series and realized I should have posted this comment for that video. I think I will, just for people looking for good, affordable potassium supplement options. Thanks again for these truly useful and well researched videos. I have never found anything so thorough and useful regarding hiking nutrition, or water treatment, or really anything you put out. These will be gold-standard reference videos for years to come.

Hey man, thanks a ton for these videos. Love them and your presentation. I didn't know any better and was drinking the liquid IV on a semi-regular basis when I was on the PCT. Maybe 1 or 2 per day... and it seemed to help me out a good amount. Is it dangerous to drink too much of that stuff? I didn't notice any horrible affects from it but didn't know they shouldn't be used as a straight electrolyte replacement. I've also heard they are junk and a waste of time - for some reason I liked them. Are they junk in your opinion? Can drinking as many as I was do any harm? Thanks again for the fantastic videos - you rock.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t think they are junk. We have some, and my wife always keeps one in her purse. 1 or 2 per day shouldn’t be a problem on long, active days where you sweat. It also depends on your diet (what other electrolytes you are getting). I’ve had a Gatorade plus two SaltStick tablets (spread across hours) on hot hikes. As you say, seems to help.

Would like to listen to these while hiking or working, have you considered releasing the audio as a podcast?

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I’d never thought of that! I found this free converter that turns the audio from any KZread video into an mp3 file for you. Hope that helps! mp3-convert.org/v3/

@willwalks7469

3 жыл бұрын

Great idea!! Thank you! Works well! Will listen to the whole series

Great video! Always wondered why my hands got puffy during weekend hikes. Assumed it was due to increased circulation to increase sweat and aid in temperature regulation on hot days. I have always exclusively only drank water and love salty snacks on the trail. Will definitely start incorporating electrolyte mixes. What do you think about Ultima replenisher brand? We like the flavor making our water more interesting.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

It looks like Ultima has nice amounts of potassium, calcium, and magnesium. For the amounts of these other three, the sodium (only 55mg) seems a little light. But, that will totally depend on how much sodium you get through diet (the lower sodium electrolyte mixes usually assume a “typical” high-sodium diet so they focus elsewhere). You say you like salty snacks. That may work out right for you. I like sweet snacks and tend to be low on sodium, so I use the more traditional, saltier electrolyte mixes (like SaltStick capsules or Gatorade). I did an update to the Excel version of the food chart (video called Hiker Food Chart 2.0). In it, I added a fill-in spreadsheet where you can add a sample diet of your own food and it will total the nutritional information for you. Try it and see what your day’s total sodium intake would be, and maybe that can help guide you as to what type of electrolyte mix to supplement with.

@AllThingsConsidered333

10 ай бұрын

I have used Ultima but switched to Re-Lyte for the higher amounts of electrolytes since I don’t eat prepackaged food and eat far less often than most folks due to high fat carnivore way of eating

Instead of a ring, I imagine a watch around your wrist would do the same trick? I usually start out in the day with a loose strap, but by the end of the day as water has been consumed, that watch strap feels tight. I sometimes have to loose the buckle. I wonder if that's a helpful gauge?

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, and I believe I’ve noticed the same thing with my watch. It’s a good point because a lot of hikers wear some kind of smart watch for either gps or fitness tracking. Thanks!

Are there copies of J. Toker's charts for his salt loss experiment anywhere? I just went to the article and it seems that they have been taken down or the links are broken

@GearSkeptic

11 ай бұрын

Ah, that’s a shame, but it seems to happen regularly. I don’t have any other source, but that is why I take screenshots!

Almost forgot to like but arm hairs did help with that one.

What do you think of Pedialyte as an ORS? ( Heavier in liquid form, of course, but they do come as powder packets. )

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

They have a good formula. I just found some in the store, now a powder mix in individual packets. Bought a box to try them out.

🙏🏻 🙏🏻 🙏🏻

This is great, thanks so much! I need to be especially careful with electrolytes as my kidneys waste potassium and I take about 2250mg per day (prescribed). My dr also has me taking at least double the RDA of magnesium & I’m also on a high salt diet. I’ve had to have potassium drip IV a couple times in the past and also had severe rhabdomyolysis twice which was paired with severely low blood potassium. I’m slowly ramping up my hiking, averaging 6-10 miles when I go out with a highest mileage of 16 recently. Days have been hot so I am careful to keep up with electrolytes. It makes me nervous tho bcs I know going over or under on these can be dangerous, esp for me. I try to be very aware of how much I’m sweating and how I’m feeling and what my body is wanting (water or electrolyte drink). I currently use Re-Lyte bcs it has more in it than the big 3 electrolytes. I also deal with chronic dehydration since getting sick from tick diseases and mold.. been getting weekly electrolyte fluids via IV since 2018.. I think this dehydration is due to potassium deficiency since potassium is key to maintaining fluid balance in & out of cells… I eat high fat carnivore now (plants cause me too many problems!) so I don’t eat prepackaged meals or trail snacks- I make my own. So I make sure to add a fair amount of salt but not too much. Still perfecting the process. I haven’t done any overnights yet but I have dehydrated/freeze dried plain meats that I will have to bring Redmonds salt as well as butter, lard, or coconut oil. For trail snacks I’ve been making my own beef sticks and meat chips. We’ll see how it goes as I increase my mileage and time on the trails.

@GearSkeptic

10 ай бұрын

I also created a sodium/potassium calculator (included in the chart) that works alongside the menu planner. It is described more fully in Part 5 on Advanced Electrolyte Supplementation. Hope it helps!

Hiya! Any chance you've compiled an electrolyte spreadsheet by any chance? Making one now but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask! Thanks again for your hard work!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I haven’t! But, it sounds like a great idea!

@tracedef

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Also, how did you find the fortitude to complete the massive food spreadsheet???? How does a mortal man accomplish such data sorcery????

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

It took me a loooong time! 🤓

Do you use tillwind recovery drink and frog fuel both after the days hike, or just one? Confused if they serve the same purpose.

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Tailwind’s specific Recovery mix is good by itself. It has the carb/protein ratio already. I only use the frog fuel to add protein to a carb-only drink like Gatorade or Tailwind’s regular mix.

@joehikes5855

Жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic thank you! Your videos have been so helpful. I've had a bad habit of getting dehydrated. I think it's due to not wanting to stop and filter water. I'll get swelling in my calves and feet, my legs get so fatigued. I'm hoping the information I'm getting from your videos will help me on my upcoming Tahoe Rrim Trail thru-hike.

Whenever I’ve experienced swollen hands during hiking, it’s been as I was going up a mountain. The first time it happened, one of my hiking partners confidently asserted that it was due to the elevation gain, which seemed to make some sense, but is it actually true? Does elevation gain by itself (rather than the extra exertion - and therefore perspiration - required to hike uphill) cause swelling of the hands? What about the swinging of one’s arms or the pressure of one’s backpack straps, which are other explanations I’ve heard for swollen hands during a hike? If there is any truth to these claims, how can you tell if your ring feels tight due to an electrolyte imbalance rather than one of these other factors?

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I suspect that those theories were ad hoc, mistakenly attributing the swelling to other things that seemed intuitively to make sense when it was fluid and electrolyte balance that actually mattered.

jesus , this is my new bible. well done.

Fantastic stuff here! Do you have the dehydration chart in pdf format?

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

The Hiker Food Chart 2.0 is available in PDF, with electrolyte info for the foods listed. Did you mean some other chart?

@wolfeadventures

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Sorry, the chart at 56:22. This would be good to keep on my phone.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Ah. Unfortunately, no. I just grabbed a screen shot.

@wolfeadventures

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic No problem. Thanks.

Something seems off in the numbers for replenishment rate/target dose and "Performance Daily Intake" (PDI) for potassium. Tell me if I got something wrong, but comparing the data at 18:31 and 24:08, here's what I get for potassium: 2,500-4,000 mg PDI 75-150 mg/hr adequate replenishment rate 50-80 mg target dose per 250 mL water If we use the lowest total intake for potassium (2,500 mg), then the fastest replenishment rate seems very slow: it would take 16 hours and 40 minutes to replenish 2,500 mg at a rate of 150 mg/hour. Likewise, at 2,500 mg daily potassium and a target dose of 80 mg per 250 mL water, it would take about 264 oz of water to hit the daily total. Even if you're only getting back half the full PDI of potassium, it would still take more than a gallon of water to get there. Am I missing something, or do the replenishment rate and target dose seem very low compared to the proposed PDI? Excellent video and series! Thanks for the great content!

@NickKostalas

3 жыл бұрын

In addition to the above, the RDA for potassium appears to be 4,700mg-why would the PDI be less than that? Is the PDI supposed to be extra, on top of the RDA? And if it is, that only makes the very slow rates of replenishment listed above even slower. I'm confused!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Hmmm…good question. The data is from two different sources, so it’s possible it doesn’t jibe. Also, I don’t think he references where those PDI numbers come from, and the range seems rather broad. Not sure how precisely they can be used for calculations. Good observation on your part!

Great stuff thank you for this gift of time and effort freely given. Amazing. One thought. I have diabetic kids. When counting carbs to bolus with insulin you ignore the fiber as it doesn’t digest. So I would suggest your protein carb ratios reflect this reality. On your combo calculator which I love btw, I changed the formula to subtract out the fiber. I think this will give a more accurate target. Also I have been recommended many things to help with this that or the other. This nutrient will give you energy. Blah blah. I’ve never noticed much of a difference. Adding the recovery drink has been an absolute game changer. I can not believe the years of muscle aches and pain I have suffered through needlessly! I owe you dinner at least. Thanks.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much! It is kind of you to say so, and I’m always glad to hear it may have helped! That’s a very interesting point about the fiber. I will have to play around with that. Thanks!

Just want to get this right… if I’m hiking 10 hours a day…. 25-35km ( with say a 1000m of elevation)….I’d potentially need somewhere between 3-5 grams of salt a day( if my food has 1 gram) I should take make up the rest at .2-.435 grams every hour in 500ml - 1000ml of water? And your also saying it will be absorbed best if taken with some sugar? How much? Thanks in advance! Appreciate the videos!

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

It is very difficult to create a calculator that would tell you how much sodium you should have in a day. It varies on too many things. It wouldn’t be based on miles or hours, per se. It has a lot to do with how much you sweat and how much you drink, which can depend heavily on temperature, altitude, effort level, and your personal acclimation. The trouble with “calculation” is why I end up using metrics like urine color and hand swelling to “measure” my hydration level and electrolyte status as I go. For the sugar, that is about getting the most rapid hydration. Normally, time shouldn’t be that big a factor (if you have been drinking well as you go). Rapid becomes an issue if you have let yourself dehydrate badly enough that you have become ill. It only takes a few grams of sugar in a 16oz electrolyte drink to take advantage of this effect. Products like Liquid IV promote this concept, or Ceralyte (things described as Oral Rehydration Salts). Hope that helps!

@b_outside3608

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I understand the in the field testing methods and will use them!…. I’m guess I’m just wondering how much salt I should bring with me in case…. It will be height of summer and in the Rockies so I’m guessing I might be sweating a lot! Thanks for responding!

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

I always bring some of those salt caps as extras, just in case. They are so small and light that they won’t be noticed!

Revisiting this video (as I do your others, since there is much useful content to absorb and interpret to determine my strategy). Should daily vitamins be included with electrolytes, as it seems the best category for it.

@BestFeminist

2 жыл бұрын

With my health problems, there are supplements that I will need to take onto trail, but spending some time Google searches for "supplement XYZ muscle recovery" often showed ones I currently take could have benefits in long term hiking situations. A hiker talking about osteo-biflex made me realize that I need to look at much more (for my own health and well-being) than just food. This year is going to be an experiment to see if my energy and fatigue levels can be fixed. Having bad Gastro problems, a fight with norovirus a few years back really tore me up, but I have resolved to be stronger in my fight.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

That’s a good question. I have only just poked around the topic of micronutrients and vitamin supplements so far. A potential topic for a future video!

@BestFeminist

2 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic creatine boosts ATP, and so I feel that addition could help directly in recovery drink, but with protein consumed during the day (as well). It is also a theory of mine, that multiple recovery sessions during a day could be more beneficial than one at the end if the day. If there is an upkick for 15 minutes after, then could we attribute similar attributes from interval training, which suggests periods of exertion and periods of rest work differently than long endurance sessions. Ideally sometime would monitor their approximate VO2 level to stay aerobic, but can doing seperate micro-recovery sessions help to increase glycogen levels? It seems the math suggests it would, although how much increase is unknown. But if adding to the recovery was the biggest change noted by experts, then perhaps having 3 or 4 over an 8 or 10 hour period is preferred to one. This would be a nice time to take shoes and socks off, and perform foot inspection and maintenance. Wonder how long would be taken to recover before hiking again, with at least 15 minutes that protein being dissolved during this period has an increased glycogenic effect (or was my interpretation from the data). The difference with this multi recovery system theory, is that a recovery dinner isn't needed until stopping for the night. Filtering water and going potty are great recovery opportunities, and recovery beverage can help add calories in between breakfast and dinner. Knowing that there's a time period for additional uptake suggests multi recovery is beneficial and possibly very needed, because each break without recovery could send deeper into glycogen depletion. One tactic could be to have recovery drink, and to drink some each time you stop for 10 or 15 minutes. Each of those points are a chance to super-charge, i guess super-recharge is more appropriate (theoretically)

@BestFeminist

2 жыл бұрын

Trying a sweet and savory sipping broth recovery drink, with gatorade dextrose and bone broth powder. It was tasty with hot water, but haven't tried cold or lukewarm yet.

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

This is basically the reason I advocate eating as close to possible at the 4:1 ratio all day. It largely eliminates the need to be concerned about smaller start-and-stop issues throughout the day. Take breaks. Change paces. If you’re always digesting a snack of optimum ratio, then it is sort of like you are on a constant intravenous drip of optimized fuel, and that fuel is the same ratio as recovery. You might even say the difference between fuel and recovery is a semantic one, because the best fuel is proportioned the same as optimal recovery. So, fuel can be thought of as a form of on-the-go replenishment. The only special part about Recovery is the desire for speed, since it presumes you’ve ceased exertion, which will start the timer on the window closing. But, if you’ll continue to work, the window continues to stay open, so timeliness isn’t an issue and your 4:1 carb/protein might as well be mixed with higher density fat, even if that slows digestion somewhat. Lastly, I think you still need recovery despite a constant diet of 4:1 all day. This is because, depending on exertion level, you can easily burn glycogen faster than it can be recovered through diet. So, despite your good practices all day, you still run a deficit and need to top off when finished.

We don't deserve things this good

A new study (and many previous ones) suggests that sodium supplements make no difference: _Prospective Observational Study of Weight based Assessment of Sodium Supplements on Ultramarathon Performance_ The take-away for me is that if not even elite athletes can reliably manage hydration neither can I :( All I can do is consume what makes me feel good and hope for the best.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting. I guess there is a difference between intaking sodium versus “sodium supplements”. The study didn’t include people getting no sodium. The range of intake was from 131 to 533 mg…per hour. Even the lowest sodium consumers were getting thousands of milligrams per day. Basically, they didn’t show that sodium supplementation doesn’t have a benefit. All they did was imply that supplementation beyond an adequate minimum has no additional benefit. If you get enough from diet, supplements aren’t necessary. But, if you’re below what you need to maintain from diet alone, it seems supplements can still be of benefit.

@syindrome

3 жыл бұрын

Hypo- and hyper- natremia rates based on blood samples were indistinguishable for all sodium intake levels, meaning that some participants had too little sodium (when consuming up to 7,200g) while others had too much (when consuming as little as 2,000mg). So some athletes were _below an adequate minimum_ regardless of supplementation amounts (authors also cite several studies supporting this finding). Also, something that is referenced and which I had heard before is that too much water is more common and more dangerous. In the end, even though this new study is touted as being "large", there are still very few samples representing the different ranges of hydration/natremia... But the biggest red flag is that the authors though it was a good idea for the acronym of their methodology to be *WASSUP* :(

Wait so we need salt and a substantial amount of it while sweating. But you can’t drink sea water after just boiling because it’s still got the same amount of salt… so how much salt water can you actually drink?

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Seawater is very, VERY salty. While a liter of Gatorade has 400mg of sodium, a liter of seawater has 35,000mg of dissolved salts, mostly sodium and chloride (Wikipedia). It’s so salty that it will actually draw water out of your body instead of putting it in, accelerating your dehydration and making things worse.

@Wolfmanoid

2 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic thank you!

First! Edit: I really liked the video, was really interesting. I look forwards to more. I would appreciate if you would link your sources in the description or in a pinned comment as well as having them show up on the screen. Also the new apple watch can measure VO2 max which I think might interest you.

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I appreciate the desire for links to studies. The reason I don’t is because, over time, I have found multiple instances where links go dead. For some reason, they move or change the addresses occasionally. Even for myself when going back to check on studies that I may have saved a while ago, I have just found it easier to simply search the study’s title. It has always popped up a current link on the first try that way. Sorry for any inconvenience. That is very interesting about the Apple Watch and VO2Max!

@Ajay_Parikh

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic you could link using the wayback machine, web.archive.org/

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

I’ll check it out!

..we were all good until salt tablets. I had to get a man safely off the mountain. It involved him and his buddy (military) and carrying his backpack with the straps loosened over my backpack. I think he was carrying rocks. The problem: beforehand the trip leader said no salt tablets. He took salt tablets. He had ‘charley horses’ cramping in both legs. I know what to do about cramping in legs from fencing. This was worse. His needed buddy-carry, clamping his body to his side. He was drinking plain water, not what we recommend: wyler’s lemonade or water and lemon dtops candy. I prefer weak Wyler’s lemonade. We were also instructed to drink more water 1-2 days before the mountain. He didn’t do that either. He was sweating. I wasn’t sweating at all. It is recommended not to sweat on big mountains, or in the cold mountain weather. Dress in layers. This was years ago. I added ORS Oral Hydration Salts to my 1st aid kit, I would have been reluctant to offer. I didn’t know how many salt tablets he had. I didn’t know why he was sweating so profusely. I considered his heart might fail. I did not have an IV kit, to help stabilize that if advised by radio. I am not a health professional. Our success over time had led to Mountain Rescue and the Fire Department EMT program. When I started in the mountain program, even a MD could get a lawsuit for first aid. We had a better record. What could we have done better? Is all of the answer in the food and water and electrolytes? He must have had medical clearance. He was a U.S. Navy Seal, and someone thought it was a good idea for them to join our mountaineering program.

@kombava7275

3 жыл бұрын

I read your comment twice and i still don't get your point. Was he taking too much salt or not enough (you're complaining about him sweating, taking salt tablets and not driking electrolytes at the same time) ? It also seems like you didn't watch the video.

So Skep, humor me...if this human system you describe was "perfected" some 35,000 years ago, and the prolonged activity was stalking, defending against, wounding, and chasing a 4-legged animal, for hours if not days, what would be consumed first...based only on what science has "fleshed" out as our optimum recovery cocktail?

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

Well, I wouldn’t say the human system’s perfected. You adapt to do the best you can with what you’ve got where you’re at. That being said, the scenario reminds me of an episode of Alone. In survival, calories are king. Most everybody back then probably spent most of their time deep in ketosis. Their only recovery cocktail was fat.

@WildernessFLA

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. In the wild it's the fat laden tissues that are consumed first. Its seems odd to me though how this system of ours has been honed to maximize a certain ratio of carbs to proteins, such that there must be some common scenario that was beneficial to our species. Otherwise, it would suggest that sports nutrition scientists came upon a hack that speeds recovery, but has no evolutionary template. Still, I tried your recovery drink today after 90 min of mountain biking at a high amateur pace...its a jolt! Thanks!!

@GearSkeptic

3 жыл бұрын

There is still the Gatherer half of hunter-gatherer. Though the season is limited, carbs abound when fruit ladens the limbs. I think the best year-round performers would have to have adapted parallel (or backup) systems to make most efficient use of two very different diets, depending on what’s available in their particular where-and-when. It would behoove you to have a fancy carb/protein recovery mechanism to plush those fight-or-flight glycogen reserves when you can, and then an effective fat-based alternative for all other times.

@WildernessFLA

3 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Makes sense. A key to our success, adaptation. Also, carb sources were probably easily dried, stored or carried. Its just that the code to optimum recovery seems so specific, i.e. timing, ratios, delivery, etc...it begs for an evolutionary explanation, kinda like "confirmation bias" as a remnant of a psychological trait that improved early man's odds at surviving long enough to reproduce.

I have noticed people using “loosing” instead of “losing.” Is that correct?

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

It should be losing, as in "losing weight on a diet". Loosing is rare in modern usage. It technically means to set something loose, like "loosing the hounds" when sending dogs to a hunt.

@schreckpmc

2 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic thank you

@schreckpmc

2 жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic or “loose an arrow.”

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

why would you need a dedicated container for electrolytes powers? just dump in water, drink, refill with regular water. rinse and repeat depending on how much sweating ect... yes it's added waste from the packet but not much considering their size. you've got skratch labs ect. which say add to 16oz of water or what ever and 1L is just shy of 32oz by 0.054 oz hardly anything to worry about, i do like the capsules though, haven't seen them before. thanks

@GearSkeptic

2 жыл бұрын

I like to have one bottle with water and one bottle with mix. That way, I can drink from whichever one I need at the time. If you have only one container and you fill it with mix, you will have to take on the electrolytes every time you need fluid, whether you want them or not. This can come up after you eat something. The food may have all the salt you need, and you might want to just drink plain water for a while.

Instead of buying packs of electrolytes, could one just sprinkle some extra salt into their snack? (say 1g of himalayan pink salt on a peanut butter sandwich.)

@GearSkeptic

11 ай бұрын

That would really only get you sodium (and some trace minerals). If you check out the Part 5 video on Advanced Electrolyte Supplementation, see the section on DIY recipes starting at 43min17sec. Ideally, you'd want those other electrolytes including potassium, calcium, and magnesium.

@Nesh108

11 ай бұрын

@@GearSkeptic I thought the the himalayan salt would also give magnesium, potassium and calcium but I guess they are much lower than the needed daily amount. Thanks!

Because plants crave electrolytes, and Brawndo's got electrolytes. If your so smart how come you don't know that? Seriously: masterful.

The "danger" of hyponatremia is a bit exaggerated here, but I really appreciate this information nonetheless. I have gone some seriously long periods on the bike or while hiking and not knowing the importance of salt intake, not that you would want to or that it's safe, but you won't die within a day like the charts in this video would suggest.

If I do not consume enough salt each day I get leg cramps at night.

is there a tl:dr not trying to watch a whole hour video

@hikerJohn

Жыл бұрын

It just means you were not all that interested in the subject. If you took a college class it would have taken many more hrs.

right, now I need to go find a wife so that I have a wedding ring for hiking

@GearSkeptic

5 ай бұрын

And, make sure you register at REI

Monitoring urinary output/color is useful. Note that you ought to be euhydrated at the start of your hike! Similarly, going back to evaluation of the intensity of effort, %VO2 max is not a useful on-hike method; you can use %max pulse rate as a surrogate. It's not a good idea to assume a max pulse rate from your age, best to undertake a maximum effort test (check with your physician beforehand). Then have an accurate heart rate monitor on-hike (I use a chest strap but wrist assessments getting better) and use your little grey cells to calculate %max. I find I approach my lactate threshold (85% max heart rate) on a hike but I am not as fit as I used to be.

I can even see my sweat on lighter color clothes

I think it would be a nice touch on your intro video if , while you are walking across the the lawn, suddenly it all slows down for a moment and you do a classic bigfoot arms swing and look at the camera, then everything just pops back to normal and finish the clip.....? ...kinda suits the "Skeptic" thing.....???.....Nothing to add on the actual videos though they're awesome....maybe a quick subliminal flash of Bigfoot hands.....??? ....that's all...I'm out........

@GearSkeptic

Жыл бұрын

Ha! I love it! Now, if I could only pull it off…

@CrowMagnumMan2024

Жыл бұрын

@@GearSkeptic Maybe just use the actual bigfoot footage then switch back to you.....I meant no indignity towards your person in saying that.....I hold you and your videos in the highest regard and meant it as a nod to skepticism ......?

Uee LITE Salt to make and almost perfect balanced electrolyte solution, it is a little light on the K but it is a cheap and readley available sorce of K. The saltsticks are expensive in comparison and very light on the K. Buying most the stuff you list is high and less effective then simple lite salt. Your use of mEq, though a standard in electrolyte solutions, really means nothing to the typical person. it should just be in mg.

@AllThingsConsidered333

10 ай бұрын

10 mEq is 740mg. I need to take 30mEq potassium daily due to wasting thru kidneys.

TL;DR The quoted paper is not science, hence the recommendations are suspect, read Waterlogged book by Noakes. You quote 2009 article by "a Canadian elite-level runner and triathlete. He received a Ph.D. in organic chemistry ", which presents "a mathematical and scientific model". One major flaw, that renders all his calculations irrelevant is "The sodium content of sweat is set at 40 mM (range 20-80 mM) meaning that 1 L of sweat would contain 920 mg of sodium". The fact is sodium loss rate slows down as serum Na goes down! The author should have read Waterlogged more closely and so should the author of this video. Why would you base your recommendations on some obscure not peer reviewed web article? Yes, it's hard to find good science on hydration, but start with the Waterlogged book. Cheers.

This may be THE best video compiled on the subject to date anywhere. I mix Lite Salt with table salt to get a Na:K ratio of 4:1 thinking I need more Na than K from sweating but maybe I'm wrong(?) I'll need to watch it again and think about it. I much prefer the taste of sodium chloride than potassium chloride. I wonder if *needing* more K would change my taste? I use Crystal Lite Orange (with Vit-C) for flavor but sometimes I take my salt strait with a water chaser. Excess potassium is processed through the kidneys and having only one kidney might be scaring me away from higher K consumption.(?) Lite Salt is a cheep source of potassium (available at every grocery store) 1 tsp of "Lite Salt" (5.6g) is: 1.16g Sodium 1.40g Potassium 240mcg Iodine You can pinch your skin to see if you are dehydrated. (skin turgor) *Caffeine Before Exercise Helps You Burn Fat* "Caffeine . . . significantly stimulated ketone production in a dose-dependent manner" BUT . . . I have figured out this year that (for me) caffeine in the late afternoon was associated with cramps when I hit the sack more than electrolyte deficiency. I try to stop caffeine intake 6 hrs before the end of my hiking day and now I almost never get cramps. Taking caffeine (200mg) at 4pm and hitting the sack at 7pm I was getting cramps withing minutes of lying down and taking more salt did not help much. If I took it at 2pm it was hit or miss (mostly miss) for minor cramps that salt did help with. Haven't had a chance to ask around to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. For calories I think it would be better to calculate calories per mile per pound rather than per day. I do quite well on 85-90 cal per mile while I still have body fat to burn. As I lose weight I expend less energy but have to eat more anyway but then I can afford to carry a little more calories in my backpack. Ive only done one real TEST where I hiked 300 miles and kept a record of calories eaten and I lost weight but I don't know exactly how much I actually burned because the scale was not accurate at the end and being even slightly dehydrated can throw off the accuracy as well. I met a guy on trail that used ground up cattle salt licks . . . He lived on a ranch :o) I think RUNNERS in a RACE are more in need of *rapid* re-hydration not backpackers. We live at a much slower pace.