Sadly - This morning, Tuesday in Australia, the main fuselage section with the bodies of pilot and cameraman were located in waters off the Mornington Peninsula by Victoria Police Search and Rescue Divers. Recovery operations will soon commence. [The Age Newspaper- breaking news, 4 mins ago.]

@AW-pz3qc

7 ай бұрын

Sorry, hadn't scrolled down far enough to see your update before posting this further up.

@stephenwalters8061

7 ай бұрын

@@AW-pz3qc No problem. I don't necessarily read all the comments either. 🙂

@curiouscat8457

7 ай бұрын

To my knowledge, the bodies were not included in the package.

@idanceforpennies281

7 ай бұрын

Yes, they jumped on it pretty quickly given the lack of uncertainty of the crash location and not too deep water.

@ebaystars

7 ай бұрын

more than. 100% we used to use helicopters in UK to shoot commercials, well before drones took over, and as pilot I stuck to all the golden rules about safety something must have worked, i'm 73 @@wallywally8282

Flying is not a fools game. There is a reason it is the most controlled profession. An older gentleman at my airport wisely told me one day “If you are going to be a pilot, make sure you are a professional one” This is for all those GA pilots including myself.

Juan the Oz investigators have released the video of this jet aircraft collision, it was all recorded on camera by multiple cameras. Lets just say this was a case of the guy making a video calling the shots, getting the pilot to do maneuvers that were never part of the plan. One aircraft flying inverted just adds to the total confusion and chaos. Yep the Swiss Cheese lining up is strong in this incident that should never have happened.

The cameraman that died was a close friend of my son at school. James Rose lived life to the full, gave his best to everything he did, you knew when he had entered a room as he lit everything up. A decent and talented young man. No one should go this way, this young. Never forgotten. Vale

The passenger James, was the camera man filming for an upcoming TV series and was lost along with the pilot and he just happened work for me a few years ago now at an equipment Hire and Rental company on the weekend when just out school to earn a few bucks and I remember him as a very capable and polite young bloke and was an excellent motor cycle rider, just a damn tragedy to lose his life when such a young man, R.I.P.

@romandybala

7 ай бұрын

I find it odd when people qualify someones death saying they were too young to die. So it's ok for them to die if they are old? Just say it was a damn tragedy to lose his life. At least no one said he died doing what he loved. Yeah, screaming hysterically while his plane plunged him to his death.

@jamesgovett3225

7 ай бұрын

@@romandybala Yeah champ I find it odd and sad that some people have got nothing better to do than write detritus. , bloody peanuts

@fast800journeylifebeyond5

7 ай бұрын

I worked with his dad and both his dad & James are highly respected in their field, many of my tv industry colleagues knew James very well and it has hit the industry hard. The pilot was very experienced as well, sadly accidents occur no matter how experienced one is. My own brother-in-law was killed in a Blackhawk chopper crash her in Australia in 1996 😢

I know the media has only 60 seconds to tell a story, but, JB gave more insider knowledge in 11 minutes than talking head with a journalist degree wouldn't know in a million years. Especially the insight into the ATSB view on ejection seats, and why it wasn't deployed. Thats why I sub to your channel, J.B.

@hwd7

5 ай бұрын

Thank you for the Heart J.B. This happened where I live in Melbourne, and you are the only one who explained why the Pilots couldn't/ didnt eject. The local media never even addressed the question or didnt know the ATSB;s ruling on ejector seats in such boutique jets. Your inside knowledge is amazing.

I’ve flown with and they’re not reckless, Stephen is loved and will always be flying with me.

Great report Juan. I actually live not far from Essendon airport and it’s not unusual to see the blue jet flying over my house. I looked up on that day to see both Jets flying close together and hadn’t seen that before. It was a real shock to find out later that this tragic accident had occurred and it involved the very jets I had just seen

@68Boca

7 ай бұрын

Really? Very unusual to be in formation near Essendon. The flight data, freely available suggests that's not the case. I'd presume the reason they were flying over Port Phillip Bay was to do the formation flying and videoing there away from any ground and/or air interference. I'm sure the ATSB would be very interested to hear and record your observations.

Great report. First time I flew formation was with 2 ex military pilots. They asked me if I wanted to do some flyby's with them. I explained that I had never done any formation flying. They responded "ok you fly lead. So I went along. The next thing I knew, when I looked over to the left, there was a wing tip about to poke me in the eye. So I didn't look over there any more. Just concentrated on being smooth, gentle and predictable. In hind sight probably shouldn't have participated.

@Van_The_Man

7 ай бұрын

Good formation iIS close, but not too close...ex-USAF pilot Your comment of smooth (in any maneuver) and prdictable (talk) is right on.

The two aircraft involved were ex Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF) advanced trainers, that operated out of RAAF Base Pearce, WA for many years. I was always amused by their "formation" flying when I served at Pearce. They always flew miles apart from each other. I was also very interested to see Peter 'BD' Clements. I served with Peter in the RAAF, at Point Cook, on two separate occasions. The "BD" stands for Brain Dead. A nickname he acquired when flying helicopters in the Sinai for a UN peace keeping force, sometime in the dim distant past. (I'm sure he'll love everyone to know what the BD stands for).

@goodshipkaraboudjan

7 ай бұрын

He's a tosser of the highest order from what I've heard.

@patchmack4469

7 ай бұрын

love that story, but what did he do to earn the name 'Brain Dead'?

@----.__

7 ай бұрын

I was at 79SQN circa 2003-2005, 75SQN Tindal prior to that. When were you there?

Thanks, much better information than I could (easily) find here in Australia!

My wife and I were having brunch in Williamstown as the 2 aircraft were circling around flying in formation. At the time I thought it was an aerobatic demonstration, but it struck me that the formation was not as tight as what I'm used to seeing at airshows. Little did we know that what we saw were the final moments of 2 lives. Really sad and distressing. I feel really sorry for the loss of life and impacted families. Hope some real lessons are learned so such tragedy does not occur again.

@animula6908

3 ай бұрын

I feel lesson is well known to all mankind from olden times beyond memory. Getting people to stop practicing ignorance in the face of wisdom is pretty tough though.

I watched these two fly right over us at Port Melbourne just minutes before the crash. As a GA pilot it is gut wrenching watch another mid air collision and the loss of two fine young aviators. May they Rest In Peace.

Good report Juan. Condolences to families of missing. As an Air Cavalry Cobra pilot I hated formation and flew a very loose formation with my Loach out to the AO and back. I rode just once with the Huey guys (jumpseat) putting our internal infantry platoon into a very small LZ. Overlapping rotors until under the big trees called Loach eaters. These jets bumped causing damage to lead. With blades going counter to the other Huey, just a touch would destroy both main rotor blades. Those guys clipped trees but never touched each other.

As a pilot in training I have benefitted immensely from your videos. And as you said many times, one never stops learning. Thank you for all the work you put in to enlighten other aviators. All the best.

This is a sad outcome for the pilot and cameraman. I worked with James the cameraman as a fellow cameraman on a few jobs and he was an absolute gentleman. Down to earth, very skilled and genuine guy. RIP

Thanks for the informative video (or at least what we know so far.) My 15yo, who himself wants to be an RAAF fast jet pilot, pointed out these aircraft as they flew over our place on their way south that day (and even looked them up on FR24) and was understandably aghast when he heard about the crash. As tragic as the incident is, it’s proven to be an interesting exercise in shaping the way he thinks about accidents and the role we each play in avoiding them. My father long ago defined an accident to me as a series of errors culminating in a loss of control, which may or may not result in harmful consequences. We talked through this and some of the things that might have gone wrong and why, and how the investigation will patiently explore all of these in minute detail over time. If anything, it has increased his enthusiasm for aviation.

Great report and one without judgement or apportioning fault or blame. In saying that, this was a hard video to watch as sadly, I know the pilot/owner of the downed S211 personally, having worked with him at various airshows here in Australia. Really lovely guy, and very generous person, which makes this more the difficult and tragic outcome 😢

@MeppyMan

7 ай бұрын

Condolences. I’ve lost friends in GA since I was in my teens. It’s always a huge shock to the system, and the community.

@MeppyMan

7 ай бұрын

@@bartofilms yes of course they did. Watched it on my ADSB receiver as it happened near my house, and you can replay it on any of the flight radar sites that log.

@LuxPerp

7 ай бұрын

@@bartofilmsperhaps watch the video.

@imo8249

7 ай бұрын

So how long can any fool fly ?

@mebeingU2

7 ай бұрын

@@imo8249, everyone knows that tragedy plus time equals comedy…. Maybe you should give it more time.

As someone who works in Television Production here in Melbourne, Australia - please don't assume that the (subsequently changed) working title of the TV show necessarily reflected the attitudes of the Aviation folks involved. Even if the original proposal for a show came from them - whichever TV Production company picked it up and ran with it may well have cooked up that name to pique the interest of the Network TV Broadcasters they would subsequently sell it on to. Those production executives likely aren't involved in any sort of Aviation themselves, and were just looking for a popular 'angle' to appeal to a non-aviation audience.

@JMMC1005

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, some of the jokes / comments on the (unfortunate) title bother me. If the pilots involved have a reputation or history of poor airmanship, sure, go ahead. But at this stage there is no reason to believe they were reckless, undertrained, or unprepared for this flight. Accidents occur and even the most capable pilots make errors - in this case they didn't get away with it. The tongue-in-cheek name of their show does not have any bearing on their approach to aviation. Until we get the published report, I'll be reserving judgement.

@fudruckers3916

7 ай бұрын

These are two non military trained pilots flying formation aerobatics in military style aircraft. Given that it didn’t take long for things to go wrong it seems to suggest that their level of training was inadequate.

@ruprectgreatrex9153

7 ай бұрын

incorrect, Viper 1 had 2 ex-RAAF pilots on board, both of whom had at one time flown in the RAAF formation aerobatics display team. The Viper 2 pilot was also ex-RAAF although its not clear if he served as a pilot or other crew. However, this vid. notes that Viper 2 pilot was a rated low level formation aerobatic pilot with extensive airshow experience. We dont know what happened yet - Viper 2 had a cameraman in the back so its even possible equipment may have come loose and struck the pilot or the aircraft controls @@fudruckers3916

@JMMC1005

7 ай бұрын

@@fudruckers3916 The pilot in the surviving aircraft was ex-RAAF and flew in the Roulettes. The other (deceased) pilot was not a pilot during his time in the RAAF, but he did hold formation / aerobatics ratings and had been around the airshow circuit for a while - though I don't know specifically how many hours he had on type. Clearly something went wrong here and their training will undoubtedly be scrutinised, but at this stage we don't know whether this was a one-in-a-million accident, or an inevitable result of insufficient training. Even military pilots are not immune to accidents, despite the rigorous training and high flying hours they benefit from. All I'm saying is it's best not to speculate until we get the report.

@khylerin70

7 ай бұрын

Well where did the name originate?, the producer's brain storm doesn't look so clever now does it.

I know Stephen, this one hurts. He was a very experienced pilot, so good that he taught air forces and flew with air force guys. Fuck

As an ex RAF QFI sending a student first solo was one thing, but later in the course leading a formation with a solo student as #2 concentrated the mind. Wise words of advice from Juan on formation flying in this video.

@steveperreira5850

7 ай бұрын

I’m just a general aviation pilot and I don’t understand what the purpose of flying in close formation is. Is there any good reason for this other than just showing off? It seems senseless, honestly. I understand you can gain a small measure of mutual drag reduction.

@philatkinson8051

7 ай бұрын

@steveperreira5850 good question. It serves a number of operational purposes: It is a prime skill required for Air to Air refuelling. When carrying out an intercept and visual identification of an unknown aircraft formating is essential. Also formation take off is a very efficient way of increasing the number of aircraft that can depart the airfield in a short space of time. Likewise with recovery through formation run in and break or formation landing. It is also the precursor to teaching tailchasing and Basic Fighter Manoeuvres required for any form of Air combat. It also hones the pilot hand eye foot coordination which is beneficial in all areas of military flying.

@tucanoguy4719

7 ай бұрын

Did you train your students in a Tucano by chance?

@SVSky

7 ай бұрын

@@steveperreira5850 It has a lot of uses in terms of organization in flight.

Tragic situation. Both pilots in Viper One had experience as ex RAAF aerobatic display team members. When formation flying is involved, my personal thoughts on risk management align pretty much with yours Juan.

The title of the TV show was tempting fete like nothing else before it.

@gregalanharper

7 ай бұрын

So, you think they were tempting an outdoor public function? 🤔

I watched Stephen Gale perform at the Gold Coast Airshow a few months ago. I was standing next to him afterwards and it is always hard losing another member of the aviation community.

I live very close by where this terrible accident occurred. As of now the wreckage hasn’t been located. There has been some floating debris found. It has been so poorly reported here. R.I.P.

@owenmerrick2377

7 ай бұрын

I saw orange/red floating pieces of fuselage on somebody's TV report.

@MeppyMan

7 ай бұрын

I’m bayside. Had this flight on my ADSB receiver. I believe the airframe has been found. I would say they had no chance of opening the canopy sadly.

@Dickusification

7 ай бұрын

Youre right, pretty much all that makes front page here is the sport, property prices or interest rates

Great video Juan. I’m a pilot at Moorabbin and on that day we were flying into Essendon while the jets where doing formation flying south of the City about an hour before the accident flight. We got pretty close to them and we were commenting on how cool it was seeing them as they were doing pretty aggressive turns at high speeds in tight formation. There was also a helicopter flying pretty flying close to them, I assume with camera crews on board. Not sure if that had any relevance to the accident.

@glennllewellyn7369

7 ай бұрын

Interesting. Ta.

@pinocleen

7 ай бұрын

Overheard them as they were flying over my place, not often do they pair up like that.

@markthompson4885

7 ай бұрын

very interesting @@glennllewellyn7369

I've flown with both the pilots in dash 1 - they are exceptional pilots and BD is heavily involved in the warbird scene in Oz. I'm glad they were able to make it back safely

Unfortunate accident...it just shows...experienced pilots can make mistakes. Thx Juan for covering this.

Thanks for this briefing Juan, excellent work.

Thanks Juan, The name of the show says it all, mainly bad attitudes. In my fast jet days I always appreciated that the MB gave me a second chance at life in the event of misadventure. Never had to use it but a number of my colleagues did and were very happy they made it. The manufacturers of these aircraft fitted ejection seats for a reason, they are important for crew safety given the risky nature of fast jet operations. Disabling safety systems is always a bad idea. If you cant afford to maintain the kit you shouldn't operate it.

@csolivais1979

7 ай бұрын

That's probably why they changed the name of the show a while ago.

Thank you Juan 👍🙏🙏

Thanks Juan for explaining the difficulty of formation flying and the likely cause of this incident.

Thanks for the update Juan. You have supplied more “reliable” information in this video, than what we have been given down here in Australia by the authorities and media! 👍🏻🇦🇺

My sincere condolences to the family and friends of those involved. I truly appreciate another excellent analysis Juan. I recommend your channel to all the pilots and prospective pilots I meet.

Thank you for doing a video on this accident 👍, thoughts to the friends and family

In fact, hot seats are rather common in civilian jet warbirds. I worked for a museum in the '80s-'90s that operated seven ex-military jets, one of them an F-104D, and each one had functional seats that were constantly inspected and serviced. There is at least one outfit in the US that services these seats. I am an aviation writer, not ex-military, and have received instruction in a half-dozen ejection seats going back to the M-B Mk. 7A used in the F-4. It is foolhardy to fly tactical jets with the seats bolted down. In jets, things happen way too fast to skimp on safety.

@neuropilot7310

7 ай бұрын

I'm actually surprised civilian ejections are not more common. Draken had an A-4 pilot eject safely a few years ago in NV, and then the recent MiG-23 ejection. Maybe more I don't remember reading about. As for training, or "Seat quals". If the "occupant" or "passenger" is "ready" to fly in one these birds, then they should be ready for training on the "hot" ejection seat as well. That way, if something goes wrong, they might just get a new tie with "Martin-Baker" on it.

@ebaystars

7 ай бұрын

there was a UK accident where the pilot rolled the a/c and the inert seat disconnected and the whole shooting match went through the canopy and he managed to land his chute safely in someones greenhouse. Its worth looking up..

@thomasbell7033

7 ай бұрын

@@ebaystars Was that the incident with the factory test pilot flying a Lightning?

@ebaystars

7 ай бұрын

not too sure Ihavent had a chance to look it up, but sounds familiar, EE lightning plane of my childhood dreams!!! I saw some aviation medical vid at Boscombe Down and they showed a real test ejection with a real person at very low level (from the rear I assume) @@thomasbell7033

Your content flashed me back to my formation flight syllabus in Pensacola. You are spot on, once again, in your teaching moments. Thanks.

Great job as always Juan, thank you.

The formation flying rules of thumb you list at the end were very informative, as all of your episodes are.

One of only two XB-70 Mach 3 bombers was lost in photo op formation flying in 1966. Video on YT,

I had no idea there were this many accidents until I started following Juan.

@hamsterama

7 ай бұрын

Same with me, until I subscribed to this channel, I had no clue there were so many general aviation accidents. I guess they're so common, they make it only to the local news, not national news. At one point not too long ago, I thought about taking flying lessons just for fun. Juan's videos got that out of my system. One thing's for sure, the only flying I'll be doing is as a passenger on the airlines.

love your expertise explanation, thank you!

Interesting comments about the removal of ejection seats from ex-military aircraft. About twenty years ago I paid for a passenger ride in an English Electric Lightning, ZU-BEX, operated by Thunder City in Cape Town. That aircraft still had both its ejection seats and I received a ten-minute briefing on what to do if the pilot (Dave Stock) decided we needed to vacate. That was probably the scariest thing about the flight - lots of warnings about spinal injuries or getting your legs sheared off by the instrument panel on the way out. I didn't need the ejection seat that day, but some years later Dave Stock died when he had a hydraulic failure in the same aircraft; it's believed that he tried to eject but the ejection seat failed. Thunder City has since been shut down... I often wonder how much luck I used up that day.

@007anaHalf

7 ай бұрын

Media reports from the scene are stating recovry is being hamppered by the explosive charges in the 2 ejector seats and they are calling in specialised airforce divers trained in the removal of the risk ... its been declaired to dangerous for police resuce to attempt recovery Not sure If all of @blancolirio s infomation is accurate How he can name that BD was flying Viper1 when that infomation has not been released anywhere yet The only thing confirmed is that the female on board was a Qantas pilot who had previously flown aerobatics with the world renowned Roullettes ( more than qualified to fly the maccii ) There is lots of speculation it could possibly of been one of the contestants who has gained his PPL with Maccii type rating in the last 2 years since the shows concept and filming began and that she was only in as an observer / mentor

@goodshipkaraboudjan

7 ай бұрын

@@007anaHalf wow got a lot wrong in one paragraph. BD is an ex CFS instructor, Joanne the same and was in the PC-9 era of th Roulettes, not Macchi. BD is JQ she is QF. To say you're clueless is an understatement if you don't think BD was flying. That's his voice talking to ATC.

@007anaHalf

7 ай бұрын

BIG deal the whole point of my comment was the Name had not been released to media yet he confidently names him in this video and to highlight the fact he is incorrect in regards to the ejector seats also To me takes away all credibility of this forum and as for you @@goodshipkaraboudjan GFY :)

TV news in Australia is reporting that the wreckage has just been located. I expect that, next to recovery of the two on board, the next priority will be extracting the video recorded by the cameraman.

@davidbrayshaw3529

7 ай бұрын

Yep. I can confirm that. Both the ABC and The AGE are reporting the wreckage has been located West of Mornington.

Juan hits 🎯💯 the spot again, thanks Juan Browne for your professional opinion and analysis, I heard about this a day or two ago, very sad accident.

I have been a fan of the Blue Angels for years...and you just said something I never thought of....when they are belly up in their formations. ..they can't see each other!!!! My respect level just jumper even higher for them!!!👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾

That thing about the ejection seats...although I understand why they had to be disarmed, the seats could have saved the lives of the pilot and passenger.

@notmenotme614

7 ай бұрын

Ejection seats could also kill if handled incorrectly. Especially on the ground, during entry, egress, flightline handling and maintenance.

I live in Williamstown, just west of Melbourne on the coast. I heard these planes buzzing away and went outside to watch, They seemed to be low, flying fast, and very close to each other. Zig zagging across each other. They flew over my place 4 or 5 times. For an untrained eye, it looked sort of reckless? Then the next day read about the crash! Glad it didn't crash into my place!

As a former student pilot. They make formation flying look so easy but its has to be the hardest thing.

@judd_s5643

7 ай бұрын

It takes absolute confidence in who ever you fly with. Years ago the entire Thunderbird team followed the lead aircraft into the ground because the pilots keep their eyeballs on the aircraft next to them. No looking around, just high level concentration on staying in position. Most general aviation pilots do not have the discipline to fly formation.

@theaustralianconundrum

7 ай бұрын

There was a bit more to that one in 1982. The Air Force concluded that a mechanical failure in one plane, combined with the strict discipline followed by the pilots of three others, led to the deaths of four members of its Thunderbird air demonstration team on Jan. 18. The mechanical failure involved a jammed stabilizer, the component that keeps a plane steady in flight, on the tail of Thunderbird One, the T-38 training jet being flown by Maj. Norman L. Lowry 3d, the Air Force said in a report released earlier this month.@@judd_s5643

@Bartmanfly

7 ай бұрын

It's is not hard to fly formation, but the rules have to be strictly adhered to. It is the responsibility of the wing not to hit or lose sight of the lead.

@bradrobinhancock8491

7 ай бұрын

Actually, all pilots are "Student Pilots". You learn something new every flight. The better pilots are not ashamed to admit that. That was one line I truly remember from the CFI I spent the most time with.

@theaustralianconundrum

7 ай бұрын

Tell that to a 43,000 hour line pilot on retirement. ;-)@@bradrobinhancock8491

Any Fool Can Fly?? Good grief, that sounds like a Kamakazi mission.

Thanks for all the work on these. I have to say I was missing the music intro’s and outro’s, however. 😢

Thanks for a great report Juan . As you know not any fool can fly 😢

Thanks Juan, he was a friend ,

Not any fool, evidently.

@viperdriver82

7 ай бұрын

Apparently not

@Britcarjunkie

7 ай бұрын

Not for long, anyway.

@lukethedrifter8302

7 ай бұрын

​@@tobberfutooagain2628don't call me Shirley😂

@williambrasky3891

7 ай бұрын

I mean, they flew. The real question is for how long?

@yellowlab5624

7 ай бұрын

When two fools meet

My condolences to all affected. I have one introductory flight under my belt. A lot will stop reading here. My point is, I have more respect for flying now than I ever did before taking the controls of a little C172. It's serious business up there. Sure it is a he*l of a lot of fun, but I also know it's unforgiving. Especially if you get complacent. My head was constantly on a swivel. People paying to ride in a jet is one thing. Practicing formation flying? I'm not sure if that is going too far in terms of risk. But what do I know.

@MeppyMan

7 ай бұрын

The only non pilot onboard was the cameraman. I’d be carful jumping to any conclusions about who was flying and what happened exactly. Even seasoned professional formation acrobatic teams have had accidents.

None of these pilots were fools, they were all highly experienced.

@andrewwaller5913

7 ай бұрын

Flying with disabled ejection seats is the foolish part.

@tegrovi

7 ай бұрын

Highly experienced yes, but too early to rule out any foolishness.

I live near where this happened and saw the flight on my ADSB receiver. They found the airframe earlier today.

I received my formation training in the US military and share the same sentiments with you.

Hope folks pay attention to your continued guidance and recommendations JB. Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏼🖖🏼

I was flying out of Lilidale not far away doing my RPC conversion for Australia. I hear some of the emergency on the radio used in the Melbourne area.

@karenglenn6707

7 ай бұрын

I grew up at the base of the Dandenongs, and as kids our dad took us flying so many times out of Lilydale in the late 60’ and early 70’s. Lilydale airport seemed to be closer to Yarra Glen to me then). So many happy hours flying with him. Haven’t been to Lilydale airport in decades. Thanks for bringing back the memories. I loved flying with him. Our father was a perfectionist and I trusted him completely always. He was an excellent pilot and flying remained his passion until he died last December. He had given up flying 15 yrs before due to heart issues and missed it every day.

Thank you, RB, Nova Scotia.

Many questions to be answered in the investigation. By the way, it’s the Australian Transport Safety *Bureau* (not Board)

Tommy Little on the show is already a licensed pilot. Never let the truth get in the way of a good show story.

@davidivers6261

7 ай бұрын

Tommy got his licence as part of filming for the show....

It’s interesting the requirements around ejection seats. While I understand on the maintenance side the reasoning around training seems crazy to me. I’d much rather take my chances untrained in an ejection seat that a flamed out dead stick landing. Some of these older jets are not the most reliable. The Mig 23 ejection is a good example there is no way those guys would have survived been with the airframe. To me it’s like not putting life jackets on a plane because you haven’t been trained to not inflate them before leaving the cabin. It is complete speculation but it’s possible the crew may have been able to eject after the loss of control.

I’ve flown this jet type. Very fun little jet

i WAS ABOUT TO POST A LINK - only to discover you posted thIs video an hour AGO

Excellent report. As a melburnian I was shocked to hear of this tragedy. Immediately after the news reports there were rumours of stupidity and clumsiness (not helped by the working title of the doco being made) circulating at full speed. Most of which are clarified in this video.

This hits close to home🙁

A very sad event. My condolences to the Families and Friends. RIP.

This is my local airport. I live just west of the Essendon airport... Sad news, and honestly it just increases my fears of formation flying.

This is hard to watch. RIP to the pilot and camera operator.

Hard to stay focused on the important items when TV cameras are filming you. The distraction is surprisingly powerful.

Can happen to the most experienced!

The doors automatically opening on an explosive decompression seems like an absolutely absurd safety risk. Unless it somehow overridden by the manual control?

My father was an air force pilot in the 1950s. He said that they had training in formation flying, and they once did formation flying in conjunction with a parade in New York for people returning from Korea.

I saw these guys flying overhead about thirty minutes prior around Williamstown. Sometimes in formation other times some distance apart, bit unusual and a treat in these parts, very saddened to learn later of the accident.

Wreckage found earlier this afternoon AEST. Officials have described it as a recovery.

Amazing breakdown of the incident. I know one of the people in the lead plane. They are lucky to have made it home alive.

Thanks for another precise explanation of another unfortunate incident involving "General Aviation " in Australia. It appears that there is an escalation of Incidents in the last few years ? Perhaps between yourself and say Dan Grider you might be able to clarify this ? I enjoy flying especially in War Birds when my health and money allow so I have a self interest in Safety , which is also part of my Profession as an Auditor. Consequently I do follow yourself and Dan and others in your Goal of Safer Sky's for us all ! Again thanks for your efforts in this Goal it is much appreciated !

Danger, Will Smith. If your on a long cross country flight, do not try to keep your buddy in his plane in sight. Get a few miles separation.

very sad to here about this mishap.

Top of the hour.

If you want to see a example of why you shouldn't go belly up in formation watch the dallas air show accident. Because he is belly up when he hits the bomber. The circumstances are different ofcourse because he was directed to make that turn by a inexperienced airboss but his last line of defense see and avoid was taken away when he went belly up.

I know this question does not relate to the Australian incident, but please check it out. In the Boeing 737 Flight Crew Operations Manual (Quick Reference Handbook) is procedure "9.1 "Runaway Stabilizer" Condition: >Uncommanded stabilizer trim movement occurs continously< .This procedure is dated March 27, 2014, about 4 years before the Lion Air 737 MAX crashed. This procedure could have saved the aircraft, and apparently did so on the evening prior to the fatal crash that occurred the next day. On that evening flight, an off duty airline pilot was on board that guided the crew flying to this procedure. I understand that this procedure overrode the issues caused by the faulty MCAS system. In short, if this is true, a procedure existed that could have prevented the two 737 Max crashes.

Have you gotten any Intel on the USN P-8 that overran the runway and went into the bay at Kaneohe MCAS today?

VH-MDX is still missing from 1982(?) in the Barrington Tops ... So sad for the five on board and relatives

@TonyTony-rd4rj

7 ай бұрын

Would like to find out what really happened to that aircraft. I know the story just not sur why they did not fly out to sea to go around military airspace. Or declair an emegency and get special emergency clearance to land there. You can always arrgue the politics later at least you are still alive.

Update the wreckage has been uncovered from the sea floor and has been put on a barge under a big tarp which has now arrived at Port Melbourne for the ATSB to investigate.

I'm very close to where it went in. As others have noted, the fuselage and deceased have been recovered today.

Once you're going down a non certified ejection seat is better than none

@MeppyMan

7 ай бұрын

Not if it goes off when you don’t want it to. Or doesn’t go off when you need it. Or misfires. Especially risky when in formation and low to the ground/sea. Then you have the risk of an aircraft continuing to fly and perhaps hit and kill people on the ground, when a pilot could have done their best to avoid that. (E.g what happened with that MIG recently could have been far worse). The risks skew too far the other way for ejection seats in GA.

God Speed to the pilots that went down. Those Siai Marchetti S.211 are just a beautiful jet airplane! i also like the L-39, but these really take the cake. So sad to see one go down. 8( --gary

@pauldzim

7 ай бұрын

I can't believe they only cost $300K - $450K, I didn't know you could get a jet for so little!

@smokingspitfire1197

7 ай бұрын

@@pauldzimthe 39 maybe, the marchettis are over a mil now!

@dermick

7 ай бұрын

@@pauldzim Even if they were free, the cost to maintain, insure, and fuel these little beasts is astounding. They are very fun, but not very practical even for a wealthy person.

@grud66

7 ай бұрын

Very risky flying in an ex military jet without an operational ejection seat. These aircraft glide like a brick. Condolences to all involved.

@smokingspitfire1197

7 ай бұрын

@@dermick Common misconception! They’re a bit more than a normal GA plane but not obscene, and the Marchetti burns next to no fuel in comparison to some!

I saw that crash in real time it was sad to watch.

Hi Juan. Just so everyone is aware VH-DQJ is the one that made it back to Essendon. Not sure if rego of one that went into water

@goodshipkaraboudjan

7 ай бұрын

VH-DZJ

Titanesque comparisons come to mind. RIP.

This happened right near me, couldn’t see it from the shore line as it was about 12 ks out to sea.

@bradsanders407

7 ай бұрын

Me too! Right next to me off the shore line as well! I'm surprised we didnt see each other. Thought it was a little farther off the coastline where I was at. Not much more just 10,500 kilometers.

Hola Juan! Greetings from Puerto Rico. I trully enjoy your forensic analyses and enjoy reading more on the subjects you cover even though I am not a pilot. Thanks for your content! José Antonio

Lmao at the title of the show. You got to be kidding.

I've read many books on top Australian Airforce and commercial pilots. A cool breed. But I always wondered about the too frequent accidents when training in fighter jets. It took ages before I found out why. Australia's only Top Gun has written an amazing autobiography. In it he comments on the loss of friend in a training accident. It's usually the high speed turns where the fatal errors occur. Misjudging speed and distance and flying straight into the ground by a matter of metres.

Two ERAU Prescott instructors who were prior military died in a mid-air collision about 33 years ago.

Going on my years of watching ‘Why Planes Crash’, ‘Air Disasters’, and ‘Seconds From Disaster’, with my zero knowledge of how to pilot an air plane, 4 midair collisions in 12 months sounds like a problem to me.

Will you be doing a report of the aerobatic double fatality in Tennessee this past Monday? I knew one of the pilots, Scott McDonald. Thanks.