Just a quick addendum to this video : the A3SA, the authority in charge of the DRM portion of the new ATSC 3.0 standard, finally released a spec for how gateway devices will work with encryption. This video was recorded and uploaded before they made that announcement this morning. Right now it's just words on a page, nothing yet works the way it did with ATSC 1.0. I'll of course cover whatever comes of this in the weeks/months to come. You can read their release here: kzread.infoUgkxkR3WMDU2SAHRPtza9Z04G_KjZVmO1cVm

@dplj4428

4 ай бұрын

Will my dumb TV be crippled? It is not on cable nor internet nor WiFi.

@JasonWald

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for all your work on this over the air adventure!

After spending several hours and a couple hundred bucks a person using this guide can watch broadcast TV.

I'm sure NO ONE will sail the high seas instead. A baby could set this up and watch TV how they want in no time. Very impressive by the way!

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

Of course they won't "sail the high seas" because this somehow solves piracy in their own minds.

It shouldn't have to be this way or require additional hardware. Hopefully the broadcasters will feel it in their wallet.

@BlahBlah-em2ed

5 ай бұрын

Hopefully the FCC makes DRM for OTA illegal.

@danielbeaston

5 ай бұрын

​@@BlahBlah-em2ed I think it should be illegal

I appreciate you making a video with an insane but hilarious Rube Goldberg machine to watch ATSC 3.0 content. It accurately illustrates how idiotic the A3SA is allowed to be compared to ATSC 1.0. I sincerely hope they are prevented from doing this before ATSC 1.0 is sunset.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

And this is exactly the point I was trying to make :)

@arazilsongweaver

5 ай бұрын

Lon's concept reminds me of the old "Aereo" service that spent tons of money developing custom hardware to work around the various legalities surrounding the redistribution of broadcast television on the Internet. Aereo eventually got sued out of existence by the National Association of Broadcasters and the US Supreme Court about a decade or so ago.

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

@@arazilsongweaver I think Aereo should have won. When you think about it all they really did was give your Tablo like device a place to stay with a better view of the TV towers. I wonder if the result would have been different if the customers bought their tuners and paid a "colocation" fee.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

@@arazilsongweaver Also happened to Locast. This is the effort the broadcasters are trying to shut down. However the legal framework for truly non-profit "translation" services still remains for legal retransmission. And of course in-home use is protected here by the Sony case as there is no circumvention of encryption.

@Growla

5 ай бұрын

ATSC 3.0 is dead to me until they resolve this DRM issue

Lon, I really respect your honesty and transparency. It isn't hard to do but all these other tech-tubers just can't seem to resist the allure of passing themselves off as a tech-tuber but then either starting off as an un-established advertiser in sheep's clothing, or eventually going that route and becoming an advertiser for (country unmentioned). So thanks for being principled and staying true to your integrity. You're doing a great job.

i still think it is nuts that video pushed over public airways is allowed to be encrypted. It is either a public utility or it is not. to me this would be like cable providers scrambling public access channels.

@Des_Zee

5 ай бұрын

Greed has no end

NextPVR also has the ability to add custom channels via a m3u/m3u8 playlist

Lon! Thanks for posting this video.

Wow, Lon…..that was great. I have Channels and DRM OTA channels….maybe I’ll try this

This doesn't even seem to allow for switching between channels on the ATSC3 tuner. If I understand correctly you would realistically only get one channel per DVR with proper guide data.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

exactly although you could probably come up with some clever script to switch to the right channel on the tuner and an IR blaster

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman Absolutely, I was thinking it might be possible to somehow detect the active stream and change the channel to match.

What can the public do to influence the A3SC? I watched your video about the latest A3SA rules. Apparently, these rules are only valid until ATSC 1.0 is terminated! IMO, the recent update of the A3SA rules plus allowing gateways (at least over local area networks) should be valid in perpetuity.

I never heard of restreamer thats useful to know. Ive always went the video encoder route. But it likely has no hdr 4k regardless which is due to the hardware currently.

The general public will never do this

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

Exactly..

@timbo303official9

5 ай бұрын

​​@@LonSeidmanthats probably what they want to make it harder it does it job. Its never worth adding drm due to the mistakes humans can make in this situation.

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

But pirates will and they will make much better internal guides then Lon. I got to see some leaked documents and the "scene" is incredibly organized.

I really wish the Channels folks would allow the capture of the HDMI->USB adapter directly. I get they they don’t want to have to create hardware that needs to be able to transcode on the fly, in able to have their server app run on even the weekest of hardware, but I believe those generic dongles natively capture MJPEG, which would at least be something smaller than the raw video.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

That would make things a lot easier! And you are correct most of those cheap tuners are in MJPEG. They do sometimes fall out of sync unfortunately.

You just need an HDMI video capture device and an ATSC3 tuner device for every single channel you want to watch. Oh, and a computer powerful enough to encode streams for all of those channels. The upfront cost and the power bill might be cheaper than cable! /s

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

I think Lon's guide can be adapted to do multiple channels with one tuner. Transcoding won't be needed if your TV can handle the output of the tuner and it doesn't require as much power as you might think.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

There is transcoding required on the unit connected to the tuner as it has to grab the video over HDMI.

@jmr

5 ай бұрын

@dman ̶I̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶D̶E̶M̶U̶X̶?̶ Nevermind. I see that's H264. Seems like that should be very compatible with whatever endpoint displays it though so hopefully no transcoding elsewhere.

@djthereplay

5 ай бұрын

I have been bringing up the idea of using video capturing devices for a workaround from the very beginning. They know that they have to end up hurting themselves in the process of trying to help their "anti piracy" cause because how can you stream or record content that you cannot view even when it's against the law for them to block the signal to where you cannot view the content.

I'm curious if the zapper box ever got it's DRM DVR functional yet. I believe it was supposed to happen in this first quarter of 2024, will be interesting to see if they can get it working. Thanks for the video.

So, I'm confused Lon. Does this only do one channel at a time? Or can the HDMI capture device somehow change the channel on the tuner?

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

One at a time unless you can devise a script to switch channels on the tuner

My interpretation of the A3SA release today is that connection of a NextGen tuner to any TV should be possible, as per the broadcast encoding rules they set out in August. The HDMI output can’t have digital content protection imposed on it for that to be possible. Also, home network tuners are supposedly getting support for DRM and viewers should be able to record and distribute content over their home wireless network on connected devices.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

Important note though - in the fine print they're promising this functionality only on broadcasts that are currently simulcast with ATSC 1.0 .

@NorthcoasterHobby

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman I know- my concern is going forward they will do away with the broadcast encoding rules once the substantially similar rule is eliminated and ATSC 1 sunsets down the road.

This will not work with multiple channels as you need multiple boxes. Btw did any other fox O&O channels enable drm besides chicago. I noticed fox started adding drm like the one in chicago. You can always spend $1k on this setup though

I'm pretty good with computers and technology but I have to admit I don't understand your video! You have a device that will play ATSC 3.0 channels and you are using hardware and software to get a custom channel guide?

@Mista736

5 ай бұрын

This is a workaround for an existing issue. Some ATSC 3.0 (NextGen TV) OTA channels are DRM encrypted. Although he has a device that can tune in the channels, the encrypted channels require tuner to have an internet connection. If one doesn't want to keep it connected to Internet, this is a workaround he's learned about.

@frommatorav1

5 ай бұрын

@@Mista736 I completely understand what it's doing but I'm just not experienced with dockers, myself. That's the only hurdle I would have. I can imagine someone less computer literate being much more confused. Either way, it shouldn't need to be done this way. ATSC 3.0 isn't available in my area yet, but I don't know if I would do this or not, if it was available.

I'm assuming that this method doesn't include any closed captions or audio options, unless those are passed through somehow?

Wait does this mean for this solution that you would need at least one Zinwell (or equivalent) device for every encrypted channel you wanted to tune in???

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

yep! Unless you script up some way to tune channels with an IR blaster

can they be slide loaded up to ADTH or in this case zapperbox ?.. hmm

❤❤❤

Will this work once those ATSC 3.0 channels start broadcasting in 4K with HDR?

@RichardFeist

5 ай бұрын

I have used Channels to record (the "NFL Playoff game") in 4K HDR from FiOS via a HDHR Prime and it worked. There's no OTA 4K or HDR now so only "time will tell". I doubt 4K OTA will ever be a common thing.

Wow! Thanks so much for the video. Really good to know. I'm on a raspberry pi server. Is it possible to utilize restreamer and connect pi to it as pi being Linux I'd have no clue on how to do that.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

So unfortunately I did not have much luck with the Pi 4.. I think the transcoding is a bit too much for it.

@reginafelangie6056

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman Makes sense. Thanks again.

Does this work with an HDHobeRun ?

I hope you pointing out this hole in the protected path doesn't prompt A3SA to mandate HDCP outs on these tuner devices. In particular the hard-to-bypass 2.x flavors. Pretty much all TVs support HDCP 1. This bypass while currently legal also bypasses the goal of this encryption which is to prevent online distribution of "their" signals.

@RickPaquin

5 ай бұрын

Don’t fall for their faulty logic. No personal consumer is doing redistribution. This is a strategy by broadcasters to use our TV bands to make higher profits. There WILL be subscription fees. That’s what it’s all about.

So if you have 4 DRM channels, you need 4 chains like you described?

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

Yes

Might want to add setup for Docker Compose or even Podman via systemd services. Running an image via just docker run is ok, but it's much more streamlined via the other two methods

I feel like you completely skipped where you show us the tuner supplying the hdmi out that is getting streamed.

@JohnLafitte

5 ай бұрын

3:56 Actually watched it for a third time, I guess it's the Zinwell? It is has to be turned 100% of the time to that one channel? And you'd need one for each encrypted channel?

Is it possible to do this with Plex Live TV and DVR?

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

Unfotunately Plex doesn't have a manual channel feature like Channels does.

@luckofthedru

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman darn, hopefully one day they figure out the HD home run atsc 3.0 encryption. Can't stand how these broadcasters keep gatekeeping these signals, all for corporate profit.

And while it works (today) it'll be economically infeasible to have one of the tuner boxes for each OTA channel, if/when 1.0 is turned off.

At this rate I might go back to radio :)

TVheadend will do what you are looking for without the overhead. "Tvheadend is the leading TV streaming server and recorder for Linux supporting ATSC, DVB-C/C2, DVB-S/S2, DVB-T/T2, ISDB-T, IPTV, SAT>IP and HDHomeRun input sources. Tvheadend outputs HTTP (VLC, MPlayer), HTSP (Kodi, Movian) and SAT>IP streams, and can ingest multiple Electronic Program Guide (EPG) formats including over-the-air (OTA) broadcast data for DVB and ATSC, and OpenTV extensions like XMLTV and PyXML." There is a Docker version and it's baked into openSUSE.

why doesnt channells support roku?

@kodykyle1297

5 ай бұрын

Ready there community forums. It is a terrible platform to create apps and the hardware can’t keep up with the playback of the video files.

@kodykyle1297

5 ай бұрын

Plus Roku’s are trash. Apple TV or Android hardware for the win.

Don't you have to dedicate (tune)? Thus, you'd need a tuner device per hdmi to be frame grabbed?

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

Yep!

Oh my, it isn’t like there is a learning curve, is it? Prerequisites of learning to manage Ubuntu Linux and then understanding how to deploy Docker containers before even considering video capture, recording and streaming seem like a fairly high bar for the average person to get over. Hopefully this is an early adopter situation and that a more consumer friendly solution will eventually come to fruition.

Most of the crap on of air tv ends up on Pluto tv anyway.

Back in the 90s I had 6 C-band dishes with full H-H motors and I was able to receive over 10,000 free video and over 6000 free audio feeds, including every radio show feed, including ones that I had never heard of I watched TV shows from Africa, Asia, Europe, Central America, South America, and almost every network that is charged for in America is free in other countries. But I watched so many networks in the clear that are charged on cable. I was really shocked how many networks transmit in the clear. When I went to work in the 2000s for a major network that had over 60 systions, I talked with the networks and they told me that they make all their money off advertising. The money they get from cable companies was just gravy on top. The amount of money they make is just sick And they have so many slaves ( iinterns ) 90% of their staff is slaves they will never hire. It should be a crime.

This "shotgun as a fly-swat" method is crazy... The true win will come when someone with an SDR breaks the encryption completely..

The vision I have for providers is to give them a special salute and just do away w OTA. Sorry but for me there is nothing on OTA that is worth jumping through this many hoops. I only get 3 OTA channels here and primarily I use it for 30 mins of local news.

Lon the only problem with your idea is you cannot change the channel there for there are far better options out there one of them is with the Hauppauge HD-PVR 2 or Colossus 2 as both of them have build-in IR Blaster support for but for only one device under Windows or have used USB-UIRT that allow you up to 3 zone per USB-UIRT device along with NextPVR and SageTV which support it or can just used NextPVR to setup a M3U Tuner file to pipe it in Emby which support M3U Tuner as this is what I used and as Channels App 😝

@timbo303official9

5 ай бұрын

Theres adb commands as long as you can enable dev mode. You can do scrcpy but its all black screen due to hdcp in the first place. You would need to look at your video encoder feed.

@SHSPVR

5 ай бұрын

@@timbo303official9 I think you made a post in wrong place as this nothing do with I was refer to and HDCP can be bypass with the right HDMI splitter

IMO DRM OTA ATSC 3.0 NEXTGEN-TV is dead until DRM is removed by law.

@RickPaquin

5 ай бұрын

Exactly. Ham radio bands don’t allow encryption. The FCC made that a rule and they work for us. WE should decide how we want the current TV bands to serve us. We need to all speak to our representatives. I can assure you that if the FCC decided to commercialize one of the Ham Radio bands to allow big broadcasters to make money, Ham operators would be in their govt. representative’s offices immediately. I urge you all to take the PROPER action and fight DRM on our airwaves rather than wasting time trying to work around it. If all the FCC hears from are corporations and nothing from the public, we will lose control of these broadcast bands. Simple as that.

@AAa-qd8hb

5 ай бұрын

@@RickPaquin I agree with you but the truth is: The FCC is not going to do anything about DRM. USA Congress is not going to do anything about DRM. TV stations control the Fake News about their TV business model so no help here. It is going to be a big long DRM fight that we can only delay for now by not buying ATSC 3.0 tuner boxes. Tell the people about the easy action they can do by themselves to stop/delay DRM on ATSC 3.0 TV without any effort. Do not buy OTA DRM ATSC 3.0 TVs or 3.0 tuners. This is a checkmate win because the FCC can not turn off ATSC 1.0 TV Stations until enough DRM 3.0 tuners have been bought and accepted. This is going to take many years. No one has solve the FCC problem of no government money for free DRM 3.0 TV tuner boxes because 1.0 TV turners and recorders will not work after that TV Station switches to 3.0 TV broadcasts. Very sad news that the USA is gone IMO.

this is insane to have to go through just to watch OTA TV, I'm sticking to ATSC 1.0 as long as possible, and KZread TV.

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

indeed! They want you on KZread TV so they can collect their retransmission fees from you.

@CommodoreFan64

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman , but YT TV is handy when I travel, or running errands in town, and I can watch a football game on my phone, laptop, or tablet.

It's Ok, there's not much on broadcast TV I want to watch these days anywars. MeTV, MyTV, H&I, and late night WB are about all that's remoting worth watching these days. Our entertainment industry is in the midst of a full speed self assisted suicide. DRM will just accelerate the hari kari for them.

I guess I am to old to follow this one still young at 75

Kind of silly to have DRM but not have DRM over the HDMI. Back at the turn of the Millennium, we connected our VCR and later DVD Recorders to our Satellite and Cable boxes. If they insist on this, they'll be a market for digital video recorders that record off of the HDMI. You can bet that HDMI recorders will be available soon. Otherwise, we need to make pay TV over over the air television illegal. I'm getting sick of this BS. Yes, this would disrupt services already in place in some areas, but TV in America should always remain free as it always has been. TV is government provided space, and anyone who has an equipped TV or tuner should be able to receive all stations over the air, period.

@RichardFeist

5 ай бұрын

The folks who Twitch can point you to several boxes that record off HDMI. I have one. Works great, though quite manual. Also won't record HDCP.

Torrents

That’s the way to kill free over the air broadcasts…

I gave up on my windows media center PC because of all this encryption nonsese. There are easier ways to get content using VPN. I don't shed tears worrying about how these greedy corporations will make more money.

Why did The FCC authorize this nightmare ?

@LonSeidman

5 ай бұрын

I think they're taking a "wait and see" approach here.

@j340_official

5 ай бұрын

@@LonSeidman​​⁠I used to work at a pbs station many years ago and I never once thought that this would be the future of public broadcasting. I was there when there was the transition from analog to digital.

@RichardFeist

5 ай бұрын

FCC didn't so much authorize it as "let the market decide" - as if there was a competitive marketplace when a handful of companies have exclusive control of what was once publicly-owned spectrum.

@j340_official

5 ай бұрын

@@RichardFeist absence of a choice is still a choice, no? I am all for Free market enterprise. But sometimes regulations are necessary. Americans should have access to broadcasts. Period. No shenanigans. When we tune to am and fm we don’t have issues. So why do we with tv ? What is the benefit to the population?

@RickPaquin

5 ай бұрын

No current regulation. Time for us to all contact them so they understand that we want DRM regulation.

Let’s not fall into their DRM logic trap. It’s BS. I’m not a cable company who re-transmits to other people. I am a mere single consumer. DRM is about greed and there WILL BE subscription fees attached to their DRM encoded channels once they get a total blackout on our bands. Television has operated on an advertising budget for 70 years. DRM is about creating MORE revenue. Like other pay sources, with ATSC 3.0 you’ll still have advertising, and now subscription fees on top of that! Don’t get me wrong, they have a right to make a reasonable profit, but you know, the rich seem to get richer with profit gouging and WE just allow that! I don’t want to hear about re-transmission fees or content protection. I do NOT believe people are recording their content and reselling it because unless you’re a TV network, who’s going to buy it?? We simply do not have people bootlegging MOST of the stuff on TV. It’s not worth selling. If WE allow these corporations to use our current unencrypted TV bands to make their excessive profits, which I believe is their end game, then we have ourselves to blame. When was the last time you communicated with your local representative??? It’s time to start. MOST of whatever I watch is usually available on an app. If you think I’m going to mess around with a TV antenna to pick up a DRM encoded signal for a fee, (and there WILL be a fee!!!) It’s not going to happen. I’ll stick to whatever video sources I currently pay for and probably watch less television. We need to fight the greed in this industry not waste time trying to work around it.

FCC needs to start cracking down on this DRM BS!!

@RickPaquin

5 ай бұрын

Uh, they won’t unless they hear from us. And that’s a true statement. There is no current regulation that prohibits DRM. WE need to tell them to create one!!

@STB-jh7od

5 ай бұрын

@RickPaquin there's a feedback site on FCC website for public to sign about it.

And they wonder why people pirate things, NEO🐰

Let the circus begin😂

More like a Career-around than a workaround good grief. Tip your waitress I'll be here all week 😎👉👉

Nope Never! I'm not going to pile on more complexity for what is now free airwaves, sorry, not going to happen here, but it's said to be a free country so people are free to pay yet is what another subscription fee (no matter how it's defined, taxes, fees, etc.) on top of all the other subscriptions they currently support. Basically this is simply one more pile of downstream collateral damage for consumers of the US broadcast system, and I'd bet that proponents of this new and unimproved broadcast system include former network broadcast companies who probably have changed hands so many time that they don't know who owns them today, but yeah, demand that everyone get some streaming service. Recently we see how that works with the likes of Amazon and their $3.00 no-ad fee, those fees always, always goes up. This whole issue is more scope creep by economies of scale forcing the subscription model on everyone for everything, IMO. I'd rather go without, seriously. Right, read a flipping book, I still have plenty of those around here. 📚 Anyway, thanks for the heads up on this channel.

What a load of 😱 … this is ridiculousness.

Just to dang much and to hard to follow for a sickly 71 year old man.

What circle of Hell is this? What did we do to deserve this? That's rhetorical. It's because we do not make our voices loud enough.

@RichardFeist

5 ай бұрын

remember who the 'opposition' is - they hold the keys to the lifeblood of American politicians, TV coverage. We can't possibly get louder than politicians, to the broadcasters.

Full disclosure. I did not watch the video, but there is NOTHING on broadcast TV that is worth "jumping through hoops" for.

@polarvortex6601

5 ай бұрын

agreed

You're missing the obvious. Reverse engineering and watching this dirtbag programming is a waste of time.

Not many people is gonna do this unless they can't get the ATSC 1 signal. I can get all the important channels via ATSC 1 so I don't need this here in Miami fortunately