PSE hands down. Manual tuning is the best. Yoke tuning, adjustable cable guard, manual shims, will always be the best way to go. Only thing PSE is missing is 1/4" draw length adjustment. I say that because I'm dead in the middle of each setting.. lol

If anyone has an Athens and they’re that worried about it- I’ve built many franken-bows as we call them, with bowtech cams (nervous chuckle), mathews limbs, etc. Machine your own axles & shims (or have made). There’s always a way to keep shooting if you’re dead set on it. The Dealers and employees are the ones who got a real hard kick to the onions here, as usual.

I have a 2014 second hand Samick Agullar magnesium riser,a second hand w&w tft 2017 riser and a Mathews mission blaze compound and diamond infinite edge, and have shot each thousands of times, apart from string /cable changes due to normal wear I have had no problems, but I do ensure everything is super clean and dry before storage with a tinny amount of Vaseline on any steel threads and screw heads as I found that Allen screw heads and threads do get surface rust if not protected, especially if you shoot in rain or England. Wax is also a must, your car needs maintenance and so does your bow, if looked after it should last longer than you.

My cousin and his kid both had bowtech limbs crack. That was two years ago. The bows sat on the shelf at the bow shop for almost two years until the warranty limbs came in.

@wcwcgarner2717

3 ай бұрын

My bowtech limb cracked. And bowtech had a new set at the shop in 3 weeks. And the shop fixed it that day for free. And bowtech sent me free hats sad sorry. It's my back up bow to my Mathews V3X

It is interesting. Thank you for all the important information I was looking at second hand Athens few weeks ago I am glad that I didn't pull the trigger. Now days bows are getting more and more expensive I feel like the future would be to buy switching to cheaper Chinese bows. For example I have been trying to buy extra Bowtech vibration dampener and they are basically impossible to find. I can only imagine what would be if I need parts all this BS with dealer only has to end . I don't need warranty if I have to wait months at the time I rather pay 700$ for a bow press and spare part and fix the repair for 1 hour instead of have no bow for 2 to 3 months and beg the dealer to order the parts and than pay 200 $ for shipping back and forward plus extra 2 weeks in waiting. You don't see this because you are the shop owner you have access to many bows bow press and parts but a shooter that have 2 weeks off per year and is planning to shoot at that time knows the pain when something brakes.

Another spin on this is, if you have a stock of these bows. You can turn that into a business of fixing the ones people do have with the parts you have. Charging a premium for sitting on it / the limited availability of them. No clue if that is worthwhile but a thought

Terrific insight as always Steve !

Hello, guys...In the video Steve mentioned Martin archery closed it's doors recently...That's not the case .this Morning I spoke with them at Martin archery and they are alive and well...also coming out with a new line up this year!..As for Athens Archery very sad news..

I just had a warranty issue with legends as well. They will not cover or reimburse me. Used the xt420 arrow quiver. Used twice and the arrows started coming out the bottom.

@Makka316

3 ай бұрын

I have the same problem on my XT420 and am sporting a bunch of duct tape on mine currently to stop the arrows pushing through. Judging by the design and materials of the quiver my duct taping is better quality! Couple of others at my club have had issues with the zips on their XT320's. I bought a Legend Everest bow case last year a few weeks before Steven's video came out about it which was pretty annoying. While the case has held up so far, I bought it as an option to transport my bow internationally and there's no way I'm taking that risk after seeing Steven's video. I've since bought a new hardcase.

@dice2420

3 ай бұрын

@@Makka316 I cut a piece of rubber matting to fit inside the quiver at the bottom of xt420 and then sued it back up. Haven’t had a problem since.

Yeah..bad deal about Athens…always like the industrial completion driving the bow companies to be better…question for the archery supply people…what liquid lock would a guy use on the bow string serving in the cam locations to help keep the serving from separating over the cam locations?😊

I broke my bows out of ignorance when i first started. however, i went to my local (120miles away) shop and told them what i did, gave an i am an idiot face, and made sure i paid them since i was very grateful for their time to fix it and help me. they were always nice and helped me out and it never cost me too much. too much dishonesty.

Steve, Always good to hear the business side of the archery industry.

Martin did NOT go out of business!

Athens was sold a few years ago to different owners than the founders. They did not buy the machine shop as part of that....

Since Martin went out of business, does that mean Obsession if Martins bought Obsession right? is no longer supported? I have an KAOZ Obsesion bow and was wondering?

@bradmoulton138

3 ай бұрын

Martin did NOT go out of business!

@jameskilgore4739

3 ай бұрын

Martin Archery and Obsession Bows are very much in business in full production. Completely New Martin Bows will be released later this year and 5 New Obsession Bows released and the Koaz is still in full production.

That 'warranty is on you' issue only exists in the backwards land down flunder Australia.

Bowtechs axles are not hardened, I may have not loosened my lock screw, but I did, and the hex interface stripped out, $180 us dollar fix. And I had an Solution Sd That was under recall, called Bowtech told it me wasn't under recall, even though its serial number came up under recall. Went to local dealer and could compare the updated axles to my own. Guess what? Different. I'm done with Bowtech until they address these problems. Sad to say, because I find them to be one of the most stable bows I've ever shot.

@Wheat777

3 ай бұрын

The issue with the deadlock adjustable cam is that the red limb tip locking set screw housing is aluminum. When they anodize that little part the anodizing gets down into the threaded portion as well. Already off the bat, the threaded female portion in the block is a softer material than the harder ( no pun intended) male stainless locking screw. This “ mating” of aluminum (soft) and stainless ( hard) is a touchy situation. When locking and unlocking the lock screw you may find it binding up and will even see tiny shards of aluminum pieces come out around the lock set screw, usually silver and red circular pieces of aluminum. The anodizing that made it into the threads really causes binding problems between the two different types of metal. The anodizing up against the stainless screw really locks that screw in place with literally no wiggle room. That anodizing in the threads takes the machining tolerances of the thread and makes them tighter ( binding) than it should be. That locking set screw and threaded receiver need to be de-burred and lubricated along with the cam axles. Stainless coupled to aluminum is tricky for such a delicate mating to begin with. There are many helpful articles about this very issue and how to prevent it on the Archerytalk forums. I completely get it. We pay so much for our equipment that we shouldnt have to be doing such things, it saddens me as well. My family and I collectively own 9 Bowtechs of different models. I love the ease of tunability but choice of materials on this part of the bow could have been made more bombproof. Hope this provides some insight. Have a great day my friends.

@josephfolsom2030

3 ай бұрын

@@Wheat777It’s details like that and some that others have mentioned about Bowtech’s issues of not keeping their warranty promises and quality control issues has been Bowtech all along. Buyer beware!

The Chinese don't get sued because there's no practical way to enforce a patent there, cost or not. The only way to combat IP theft is to put in the hard work of tracking and stopping illegal shipments entering the US.

They are going pretty fast on Ebay here in the states. I think due to the tuning system and lawyers getting them shut down, the flagship model at least is turning into somewhat of a collectors item. All my local shops are sold out already.

@wcwcgarner2717

3 ай бұрын

People are buying them because you can get them for pennies on the dollar. And when it breaks your stuck. Nate said he sold his bows at cost just to move them.

Saw this coming 12 miles away lmao

You’re about to see a huge leap in Darton sales just wait and see

Is it official that Martin went under? Obsession is moving right now to one location instead of two buildings. Was told that yesterday by obsession. Nothing was said about Martin being done but I know they didn’t release anything new for 2024

@jamesanthony7127

3 ай бұрын

I spoke to james.martin today.alive and new line up in the fall

regarding the warranty claims, other then posting a notice on your website, post notices in your shops & with each item "no warranty" applies too, even have individuals sign a notice, agreement they've accepted no warranty applies.... then maybe if its a used item, have them shoot multiple arrows through it at the shop after purchase, even have a buyer inspect it & again sign a waver on its condition & faultless condition/they've used it onsite etc sounds like you've alot of muppets out there trying archery & not having a clue....

We no longer have access to parts or a lifetime warranty. Im pissed. Athens is dead to me. Their decision just destroyed a ton of small businesses…. I lost all respect for them. Now I have 2 bows (elevate and vista) that I can’t do a darn thing with. Why they thought they could go against bowtech is beyond me. What a stupid decision on their part. Shady business owners if you ask me. I hope Jim and Tracie never step foot into the archery business again.

Lol, isn't the lawsuit that the parts are the same? If so, no problem getting spare parts from Elite and Bowtech. Otherwise I call BS on the lawsuit. They just don't have the money to fight the suit. The parts aren't the same or you and others wouldn't be worried about getting spares.

When Athens came out wt there new bow. I said that is the end of Athens. I own bowtech and Mathews bows. If you wanted to be a dealer for Athens you had to sell at least 10 bows a year the bow cost was 850 I said No thank god i did. Sorry jim and tracy but you put people out of work. Bowtech was not going to let a company steal there cam design. Would you

This is why you only buy from the top brands.

Should there be more mention of how bowte h took them to court over supposed patten vialation. Which athens was never going to have the resources and money to fight them. No idea if they did copy tech or not. The lose of another bow company wont benefit the industry or the community

@matthamilton0081

3 ай бұрын

I agree its a shame that another manufacturer is out of the bow business. Unfortunately doing things like violating patented technology is not a move that keeps you in business. Bowtech didn't do anything wrong, they have employees that count on paychecks too! You can't let companies steal technology that you paid engineers to invent...

@liamboyle9199

3 ай бұрын

It's an interesting take, and there's arguments for both sides which are both reasonable.

John 3:16-17 his name is Jesus

@archerash6695

3 ай бұрын

Amen!

@atlurker8037

3 ай бұрын

Austin 3:16