Seems that a lot of people enjoyed this crossover: Make sure to follow Pastor Paul on KZread: kzread.info

Wow. Pastor Paul and Peter Bogosian the duo we didn’t know we needed.❤❤

@justanothernick3984

6 ай бұрын

This comment goes to show how people really do think the same. All over KZread in the 2020s. And top voted... Congrats on the copy & paste work.

@Padronfan

5 ай бұрын

No joke

I love seeing people really thinking -- asking and wrestling with big questions. Keep up the great work!

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank you.

@manfredconnor3194

5 ай бұрын

They are not thinking. They are not asking the tough questions about their religious beliefs. Of course, there would be thai food without religion. Chritianity lays claim to things that do not belong exclusively to it. The metaphysics are not true. This is just stupid!😮 Morality is not exclusively a property of your religions.

Peter and Paul discerning their beliefs about God on the banks of a river. Seems very biblical.

@Winterascent

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, but it's London!

“If you made a mistake, it’s an eternal mistake.” Great conversation between friends who respect & challenge each other.

An excellent episode! Peter has been churning out some brilliant episodes recently but to see him get together with Paul (who has recently become a Pastor I now listen to) is outstanding. Great questions on both sides.

Love this. Disparate views engaged in civil disagreement. Well done. 😍

What a beautiful, honest and perceptive conversation. Thank you so much Peter.

@jeffrelewis

7 ай бұрын

Neato dude!

When these kinds of conversations are normative, then we are moving in the right direction.

Can finally appreciate Paul's height! Awesome to see you guys together!

This is beautiful, and how I wish Christians and atheists could have been communicating all along. I am struck by the fact that it took an "outside" enemy, Wokeism, to really drive home the value similarities between many atheists and Christians, and lead to this type of ongoing, productive, respectful dialogue.

@kennorthunder2428

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, but I've seen the same visiousness from the eariler versions of the "new athiests" against Christians just like these "woke" people; and a lot of these woke people seem to be athiests too. Starting through the Obama years, there were strongly worded suggestions that athiesim should rule the roost through academia, government and the judical system and that Christianity should be irraticated - a different varient of "cancel culture". Wokism took that path instead. Peter is older and wiser through bitter experience. Slippery slope?

@HIIIBEAR

7 ай бұрын

​@@kennorthunder2428that's like saying not wanting flat earth taught is wokeism. Either you recognize Christianity doesn't meet the standard of evidence or you're delusional. There is no in-between unless you publish that evidence

@gre8

7 ай бұрын

A bit of christian mea culpa. When the neo-atheists first appeared, the intellectual state of Christianity in the west was indeed really poor. It was complacent. I think neo-atheism really helped to hammer out the bad christian arguments that went around at the time (I was there, I remember). It encouraged apologists to study deeper. It forced christians to be more morally reflective. It awakened christians to become more aware of what they believed and it brought more awareness to phony pastors that dominated media in the U.S. It think it was fire that helped to burn some chaff away.

@excalibro8365

5 ай бұрын

@@kennorthunder2428 Wokism is the worst kind of religion, because they worship no god but themselves.

PVK has been one of, if not the best grappler in this game. ❤❤❤ IT!

Wow! Another excellent and unexpected collaboration. ❤ you both! Giving Thanks for both these fine men on Thanksgiving. 🙏🏾🇺🇸🦃❤

I'd just like to echo Pastor VanderKlay's sentiments that I appreciate the spirit in which you ask these questions and play this thought provoking game.

As someone who had a boss who was a 6’4 Dutch Calvin University grad, this is just great.

Bravo Paul and Peter

@mostlynotworking4112

7 ай бұрын

Can’t wait for Friday morning nameless to remix this

thanks for the awesome content, I very much appreciate seeing individuals being open and civil :)

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Our pleasure!

This is a fantastic episode of SSE. Great stuff, Peter. 🙏

I'm glad Peter has switched up the format to allow his guests to question him. I think he provides a great example for how one should approach difficult questions and when one should just accept that they need to spend more time considering a particular issue.

Two of my favorite thinkers!

Peter, I am supportive of your "substitutionary theory" almost 100%. I recognized this over a decade ago as I was "deconstructing" my religiously held beliefs and listening and reading guys like John Loftus and Bruce Gerenscer. I noticed that they had rejected their religious beliefs and sort of wiped the slate clean removing any other beliefs that they perceived connected with that world view. Instead of enhancing their epistemology and doing the work to re-evaluate they simply accepted a more "liberal" world view that contrasted with the former view they had held in concert with the religious beliefs. It was simply a reactionary substitution rather than a contemplative re-evaluation. I would like to examine this deeper. Thanks for your work!

This is literally your best yet. It felt to me like two close friends talking about their divorce. It was real and very intimate which is what a serious conversation based on good faith looks like. Serioulsy gave me some bloody hope we can get through this bizarre period of our civilization. Bravo to you both for being so open and sharing this with us.

It’s always refreshing to hear people express themselves clearly and respectfully. Both sides asked interesting questions, and I’m glad you guys were looking for disagreement as if it was novelty.

Very glad to see this. Keep up the good work Pastor Paul.

Apologize for too many comments. Last one. This was a fun concept and am thoroughly enjoying it. Thanks both!

Love Paul! Great move Pete.

God bless you both great conversation 👍

One of the things I've always admired about Dr Beghossian is his relentless intellectual honesty. This conversation really highlighted that facet of his character. Rev Vander Klay is the same, although he does have to filter himself a bit because of his institutional commitments. All in all a very good conversation.

@Smithistory

7 ай бұрын

Eh, he produces a ton of content that is mainly stream of consciousness and doesn't seem to hold back.

@Smithistory

7 ай бұрын

Also his denomination has bigger topics they are dealing with than an outspoken pastor who is fairly mainstream within his denomination and a born and raised CRC guy.

@logoimotions

7 ай бұрын

A fair statement though I don't think he does that.

@tgrogan6049

6 ай бұрын

"Filter because of his institutional commitments" you mean "lie to keep his job"?

@michaelkistner6286

6 ай бұрын

@@tgrogan6049 No. Not lie. Be careful because he's speaking as a representative of an institution.

Peters responses are reflect my view so well! Thanks for being honest Peter and putting this gold out.

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thanks, and my sincere thanks to Paul.

This was such a nice exchange.

This was great. Would love to see more of these two speaking together. It's so valuable to have ethical and thoughtful dialogue partners. Great conversation.

I'm huge fan of your work for around 10 years and the more you share your insights publicly the more I admire your inner modes of thinking. Street epistemology inspired me & others in the crew to launch The Aheist Experience like show in massively catholic Poland and I'm very happy to see that SE is spreading around. Peter, again thank you so much and please keep fighting the good fight. 💚 Video above is just another example of your deeply rooted intelectual honesty and man, we need that more in the world.

Despite my previous snide comment, well done Peter for having Paul on. There's alot of wisdom and value in relatively "ordinary" people that the intelligentsia misses out on precisely because they are the intelligentsia. It's more of a vocational description than an objective evaluation. Admittedly though, sifting the diamonds from the rough is a tremendous task, yet not therefore not worth doing. Paul, for instance, is worth a thousand Dave Rubins (ugggh).

Before engaging into a discourse about whether god exists, one must define specifically what god is.

@RightInChrist

7 ай бұрын

I've heard God is ineffable. I know God as the feeling of unconditional love. Epiphenomenal Qualia.

@jeffersonianideal

6 ай бұрын

@@RightInChrist Copout answer.

@RightInChrist

6 ай бұрын

@@jeffersonianideal define the taste of a banana

@jeffersonianideal

6 ай бұрын

@@RightInChrist Will doing so categorically prove the existence of an omniscient, omnipotent deity?

@RightInChrist

6 ай бұрын

@@jeffersonianideal nope - it will just help you find peace and become more loving

Paul on fire. A collab I didn't know I needed :). Thank you both

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Our pleasure!

In having a discourse with someone you do not agree with, it is important to begin with respecting them as a person. Their reaction will prove you right or wrong. If they begin by attacking you as a person because you don't agree with them that is called political debate. There is always something you can learn if you are open to do so.

This is one of the most interesting and enlightening episodes youve done. Great claims on both sides.

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

Deep thinkers thinking deeply. Can ee get more of this please

@Apistevist

7 ай бұрын

Well, 1 deep thinker at least.

@heatherwillis5505

7 ай бұрын

@@Apistevist What a dork you are

Thanks Peter for playing the game yourself, its about time!

Amazing claims and wonderful discussion, thank you both so much!

Wonderful conversation! Thank you for this.

Glad to see Paul with you Peter

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thanks. Paul is great.

Great to see you respectfully discussing with a believer! Thanks.

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

I appreciate that!

This Little Corner representing!❤

I love both men for different reasons. I’m a Christian and love listening to VDK talk about God and Jesus. And I love that PB, as a liberal, sees truth (at least some truths).

Peters thoughts on eternity is something I’ve felt forever. The idea of dying and being no more is not more scary than living FOREVER with no end. Both can be terrifying propositions.

This was my favorite so far. Great dialogue. Nice to hear Peter talk more and Preacher pushed him. I also think it is easier to be a NPC if you are an extremist, because it usually comes with a script they have to adhere to.

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

Great conversation! VanderKlay explains himself pretty well. THANK YOU Peter for not being condescending to the Christian. Not all atheists are so gracious.

Sometimes I think there needs to be a referee on semantics and hone in on the nuance - but the free flowing style of this format as is - is nice ❣

This was great. I don't like most preachers, but this guy is brilliant

Oh my goodness, a dream duo!

Peter could we get a Peter and Paul Rando conversation please?

Glad to see this duo.

Awesome to see Peter and Paul collaborating. When I was a kid I used to stay at Paul’s house in Barahona. He introduced me to the computer game civilization for which I am eternally grateful. It is fun to see him with one of me favourite KZreadrs now. Keep up the good work guys!

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank you! What civilization did you play?

I’m glad to get some reassurance in the all important dogs versus no dogs in heaven. I can’t imagine a place being very heavenly without dogs.

The honesty on display here is RIVETING

Much better than I thought this was going to be. Thank you!

More of these one on ones please.

Great content, thank you!

This was amazing!!! Great convos but just great watching 2 people who disagree on very basic beliefs value each other and have some laughs

As an aside, Spectrum Street Epistemology is such a cool name.

Gob-smackingly great discussion. More please, I loved it! 😀😀😀 Cheers from the UK 🍺

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank you!

The last name, the height, the answers. Paul is Dutch Calvism personified. 😂

@Apriluser

7 ай бұрын

😂

@patrickbarnes9874

7 ай бұрын

Why would you say that? What about his answers was Dutch Calvinism personified? Are the Dutch Calvinists Unitarian Universalist style cultural Christians?

@tgrogan6049

6 ай бұрын

The god of Calvinism is a monster. The doctrines espoused by the CRC are monstrous rubbish. PVK is a bullshit artist and not a straight shooter. He talks people to death.

Thanks, Peter. Your answer to the question about being is revealing; pain is valued. Thats very Christian. 😊🙏

Wow, the background is really beautifully shot.

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Thank Reid for that!

Amazing video, thank you so much for this

Thank you gentlemen!

This is my favorite of all the videos in which I've seen Paul make an appearance.

Brilliant. Love you two.

As a Christian who has read Peter's book on making Atheists, this is the conversation that I have been wanting to hear. Great questions on both sides.

While I'm no fan of Calvinism, this was a wonderful discussion! Thanks!

Oh... this is a lovely surprise.

Very beautiful conversation.

lovely exchange, one of my favorite videos ever on your channel. "the house of atheism" - does that refer to the 2012 atheism+ debacle? i think it was lovely in part because it didn't feel like academics, but human beings, genuinely entertaining but not overthinking hypotheticals.

The reason i respect Peter over so many other anti woke activists, and especially woke activists, is that he is willing and able to have these conversations. An avowed anti-religious new-atheist being this interested in genuine dialogue with a Christian.

Great episode. I really enjoyed the line of questioning. I even paused the video at times to formulate my own answer.

Great segment

it would cool if they shared a podcast

@ChadTheAlcoholic

7 ай бұрын

For sure!

@allyourbase888

7 ай бұрын

I agree.

@mostlynotworking4112

7 ай бұрын

Peter Paul and bring in Mary Harrington 😂

11:21 Even as an atheist, this is my favorite book of all time. If there is a god, it is CS Lewis version, combined with a lot of Alan Watts.

Paul way taller than I thought!

Wonderful!!!

@drpeterboghossian

7 ай бұрын

Many thanks!!

Dr. Boghossian, What does "the divorce of the house of atheism" mean?

@jeffersonianideal

6 ай бұрын

@phlebas9204 "The New Atheist moment largely collapsed from internal squabbling." What specific moment are you referencing?

@jeffersonianideal

6 ай бұрын

@phlebas9204 Is it the energy that matters or the validity of the arguments?

@ramudon2428

4 ай бұрын

I never even knew we had a house. Nor that it mattered much if Dennet and Harris don't see eye to eye on free will to any of us. Though the answer to the question makes it seem to be regarding trans issues, not some uncalibrated Dawkins-stuff.

I love the P&P show. When is the next one?

👌👍asking and wrestling with big questions. Keep up the great work!🤙😍❤💞

I’m just here to soak up all the wholesome comments. Great way to start the day.

This is awesome

4:10 fantastic. I laughed so hard

Another amazing episode! Make it an Orthodox Jew and a Christian next time. Would love to see the overlap and differences. (Being a Jew myself)

Lovely!

In a world without pain there would be no atheism? Strongly agree, because without pain the would be no religion, because religion is about finding ways to ascend beyond the pain of life. Without religion there could not be atheism as its mirrored reflection of beliefs.

The background looks great

That was fantastic.

What a clash of worlds, in the best way possible

Wow, I'm speechless

What do you know? Jacob was right; Paul is at the big boy table. All that really means though is higher production value.

Now that is interesting. Atheism as a form of Protestantism. Going to have to think about that.

Can someone answer this for me: what is the "divorce of the house of atheism"? They talk about this a few times, but I don't really know what they mean by that, and Google doesn't seem to be helping.

@mostlynotworking4112

7 ай бұрын

Something about woke taking over and trying to evolve to atheism plus. It’s explained out there but sorry can’t quickly bring it to mind

Physical health is more important than spiritual health question all depends on what you really mean when you say spiritual. It depends on if you consider your thoughts as spiritual because I would rather be 100% paralyzed but happy in my mind while laying in a hospital bed for 100 years than I would be physically 100% fine but go to sleep every night unhappy in my mind. I think that is a huge lesson alot of people miss. They spend their entire lives trying to be physically happy but always want more or a better job compared to someone who has a hard life with a lower paying job but is content. I know alot of research shows that money improves a person's happiness up to a certain point which is normally not being worried about having a home to go to or not being able to eat but after that it starts to take more and more to get the same improvement to the mental state.

i really enjoyed this. i’ve been working on shifting my epistemic inquiry from truthiness to cost/benefit evaluation as most people aren’t motivated by truth but by many other things. i make a grid for a claim T F cost benefit the inquiry opens up people’s hidden motivations for ‘shield’ beliefs they only hold to protect those ‘irrational’ primary beliefs.

Please come to SLC, UT. We would love to have your epistemology on our streets!