"What could the van driver have done differently?" Stayed in the house by the looks of it I mean one minute he's driving to work the next thing he's sailing off a cliff.

Poor van has got nothing to do with it and he's sent off a cliff.

@Ethankeenan02

4 жыл бұрын

The way u put that made me chuckle more van driver

@googlereviews9074

4 жыл бұрын

John McTim oi, I’m a white van driver

@johnbower7452

4 жыл бұрын

@@googlereviews9074 Me too; and I take a lot of pride in my driving thank you. The white car wasn't a van and should have looked in his mirrors.

@johnbower7452

4 жыл бұрын

Not a cliff; we don't have many Cliffs in the UK; it was more of a downwards embankment. But yeah, poor sod.

@AnnathePiana

4 жыл бұрын

@@johnbower7452 I'm a Scouser. I like to exaggerate.

Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre. Still one on the most basic rules of driving that many seem to regard as almost a chore.

@DasArab

4 жыл бұрын

@@emilylouise1979 Your probably correct. But it betters than what most seem to think is the norm these days in Signal(optional), Manoeuvre, No Fuks Given.

@busog97641

4 жыл бұрын

@@emilylouise1979 yes, MSM, or SMM... just do it. Either one, if all... wait, I live in a dream world. So few people do either.

@markwright3161

4 жыл бұрын

@@emilylouise1979 I'd say it should be mirror, signal, mirror, manoeuvre. Check the mirror to insure a signal won't cause any problems and that you actually have a safe opportunity to move, be it overtake, simple change lanes or pull out of a parking space (parallel). Once you can see it's clear, then you signal to let people know what you want to do (if there are people to benefit from indicating). Leaving the indicator on for long enough for others to know what you want to do before you do it would require the second check of the mirror(s) to see if everyone has seen you/reacted appropriately and not decided they're going to close the gap on you, then you can manoeuvre safely.

@Johnconno

4 жыл бұрын

@@emilylouise1979 Mirror.Signal.Position. Speed. Look.🏌️🌑🚽

@Mybwain

4 жыл бұрын

Blind spot check also

Flashing of the lights I'd never have thought of. Could be seen as aggressive too.

@davenz000

4 жыл бұрын

Is it a German thing "I'm coming, make way" or a french thing "watchout I have stinky cheese and wine!"?. /jk.

@scottgibson7534

4 жыл бұрын

Plus if the driver in front is in there own little world, would they be checking the mirrors at the time you flash. ???????

@grahamstewart2288

4 жыл бұрын

The flash is used to catch someone's peripheral vision. I agree thou, some drivers could view this as a negative action. Like, the drivers who aaccelerate when being overtaken.

@bulwinkle

4 жыл бұрын

The Highway Code says that flashing your headlights is the same as sounding your horn as a warning. Flashing your lights to let someone out is dangerous, they could read that as its clear to go then be hit by another vehicle. That would be your fault.

@markywellsboy2182

4 жыл бұрын

A flash of lights when overtaking goes way back. People have adopted light flashing for a whole load of other things.

Personally, I feel that the flashing of the lights could be misinterpreted by the car being overtaken as "hurry up, you're going too slowly"; putting you in a dangerous situation of trying to overtake an accelerating car...

Shoulder check last of all is so important

Nearly happened to me, was on a country road I knew well and was stuck behind a slow moving transit van. Looked in mirror, looked behind me and the road was clear, looked ahead, clear road, looked in mirror, blind spot and behind again, indicated looked again (including round the van)and pulled out to overtake. Next thing, this car is next to me , flashing his lights and horn. To this day I don't know where it came from, but I looked and looked again. I was fortunate and got away with it, unlike in the video. It taught me, no matter how well you know the road, how often you look, this situation can and will arise. Flashing lights is a good idea, but in this day and age may cause confusion. I think now, in in doubt don't and think before you do. In that thinking time the chance to overtake may have gone and any risk is averted.

@1daddyDA

4 жыл бұрын

TheFingerman37 , I really get your point on this one. It seems you did everything right and in good time. Your observation and planning were spot on . It’s likely in these cases that the other vehicle was going so fast that even your last blind spot check did not pick it up. I’m an ex motorcyclist and I make it practice to check that blind spot before overtaking. I don’t care how good my side mirrors are, I don’t care how well they are set up, In other situations I will swear that I have checked the road is clear and suddenly something has been on top of me. The speed limits are often not obeyed by those who drive recklessly.

@TheUkdan02

4 жыл бұрын

I completely relate to what you're saying. Only yesterday, I was on a straight bit of road, doing around 60mph with a van a decent distance behind me and a lorry ahead which I was gaining on. I was constantly checking my mirrors as usual before an overtake and literally, out of nowhere this Hyundai went flying past me. It was drizzly and he had no lights on although it wasn't really dark but I did not see him at all. Luckily I was still a few seconds off overtaking the lorry.

@hellenstaithes6131

4 жыл бұрын

SalesDriven I miss your compilations, they were full of idiots. Are you not making anymore?

@TheUkdan02

4 жыл бұрын

@@hellenstaithes6131 Unfortunately I had to stop when my workload increased and we had a baby! I just don't have the time anymore. I may post the odd one off event in the future but can't say I'm committed. Thanks for your support though!

@hellenstaithes6131

4 жыл бұрын

SalesDriven fair enough, life is more important than KZread! Just wondered where you went 😀

Never, ever flash your lights when overtaking in this country (UK). Regardless of what the HWC says, the action has many different and conflicting meanings out on the road - it can be a sign of frustration or, conversely, one of courtesy. That kind of ambiguity is the last thing you want during a higher risk manoeuvre.

@crunch8484

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. The HWC needs to be changed to reflect reality. There are two situations when you should flash your lights to alert someone to your presence in the UK. 1. you're in a marked police car or other emergency vehicle with blue lights flashing as well. 2. You're parked up, and helping someone spot you amongst lots of other parked cars. :)

@JulianShagworthy

2 жыл бұрын

@@crunch8484 Yup! "To alert other road users to your presence." Honestly, it's 2021 - what a ridiculous limitation. Let's be honest, most of the time we use it to give priority to other road users. I don't see the problem with indicating (but not stipulating) this in the HWC so long as it does place the onus on the car being flashed, I.e. leaving it up to their judgment.

@crunch8484

2 жыл бұрын

@@JulianShagworthy I think that would help. Personally think the fact it is such a common gesture, and can be interpreted in different ways needs to be properly discussed within the HWC, and by instructors with their students. Deliberately teaching students that it means the opposite of what 99% of road users take it to mean is just stupid.

@jakerockznoodles

2 жыл бұрын

@@crunch8484 While I agree that the HWC needs to warn how people can and do use it (and the conflicting messages it sends), I worry that this is a dangerous precedent to set. The "I shouldn't stick to the rules, the rules should be adapted to how I choose to drive" is exactly the kind of bad attitude present all over our roads and changing the HWC just because people don't feel like following the rules and "everyone else does it" will result in even fewer people respecting the rules. I do think it is a useful warning on some occasions, though in most cases the horn works just as well. But sometimes, if someone is clearly about to head into a situation they haven't seen, some warning is better than no warning (even if there's a risk of it being misinterpreted). Like I say, however, I absolutely agree it needs discussing because it creates so much confusion, and refusing to talk about its varied uses and meanings just because they aren't "the rules" creates more problems than it solves.

If an overtaking car flashes, it could be taken as either an ‘after you’ signal or an act of aggression causing potential road rage. Either way not a great idea in my opinion.

@hazharibo7439

2 жыл бұрын

surely they can see the day time running lights that most cars have, do they have wing mirrors.. if that was a motorbike overtaking, he would have been killed, just coz of no mirror check

@Weakeyedominant

Жыл бұрын

Overtaking 3 cars in the bad example is just a bad idea in every circumstance. In terms of Neal's example it's fine. He wasn't tail gating the car Infront which is when most idiots flash their lights to encourage the car Infront to pull over

@waldolemmer

10 ай бұрын

Turn your lights on and keep them on

@malcolmemsley5909

10 ай бұрын

It is a difficult one, but really we have as motorists made up our own rules on this. Friend of mine that lived in Thailand for some years, it means they are coming through and he was caught out a few times, but really its right.

@malcolmemsley5909

10 ай бұрын

Also head check. @@hazharibo7439

Never flash lights when overtaking like we've seen here. The driver of the car you are overtaking may also want to overtake and may think you are being courteous and letting him out.

@frogwood1713

4 жыл бұрын

Good point

@robocombo

4 жыл бұрын

That might happen, but if the flash is done in good time, as the flasher, you'll have time to abort your overtake if the flashee pulls out, provided your overtake had a bailout plan, which it should.

@johno4521

4 жыл бұрын

Or he could see the flash as a signal of irritation for being held up'...

@Stettafire

4 жыл бұрын

This is the issue, most drivers use it as an indication to let somone out, thus that is what they often mean to people. I think flashing lights on an overtake could cause confusion or danger because of that misunderstanding. Yes that aint ain't flashing is for, but you need to speak the language of the drivers around you, metaphorically speaking

@murray5629

4 жыл бұрын

I think a toot of the horn could be more effective... but also some people see this as being done out of frustration

Things I've learnt about overtaking: - Be patient! Finding the right spot is crucial and also having this patience, you may find you don't actually need to overtake a lot in the first place haha - Do not overtake a train of cars when your car is not fast enough to clear the relative distance. I generally avoid overtaking a train anyway as the leading car may not see (or won't like being overtaken) and decide to speed up. - Always be mindful of upcoming bends, blind spots, oncoming obstacles etc Do not overtake at all if there's any kind of risk. - Build your speed up to the overtake properly. Knowing my car isn't very powerful, I want to be at overtaking speed before I'm even close the cars. Drop back, build the speed and then overtake when it's completely clear or you're going to be along side the cars for a while trying to build speed. Plan this out a few corners ahead if you know the road. - Be mindful of the driver you're overtaking. If the driver has shown signs of road hogging or other bad behaviour, they're likely not going to appreciate being overtaken and they may decide to speed up to block your overtake. Incredibly annoying this one! - Always be prepared to pull out of the overtake if you feel it's dangerous. Don't just do it anyway! That's how you get into bad situations. - Play F1 or any other racing game because that game really teaches you the art of a good overtake lol

@markwright3161

4 жыл бұрын

I've pulled out of a number of overtakes but always seem to have one of those people behind who don't look beyond what's immediately in front and as soon as I build speed to pass whatever I'm behind they're accelerating up behind me without thinking why I might be accelerating, then suddenly having to brake sharply when I pull out of the overtake, usually because before I commit an oncoming vehicle comes into sight. The straights in my area are long enough to overtake on if you carry speed out of the corner leading onto it (in a 1.6 diesel) but most aren't really long enough to overtake with oncoming traffic in sight when coming onto them, so the moment something is visible before starting an overtake it can't be 'guaranteed' that it can be completed safely, not to mention many drivers have a lead right foot around here too so everyone is making significant progress towards each other. :) As soon as oncoming traffic gets involved you have half the space (but more like a third when you get back to your side of the road with a suitable gap to the oncoming vehicle) to get that overtake completed, Instead of heading fro a static object or bend at 60 mph you've got that object heading towards you at 60 too, so you might as well be heading for that static object at 120 mph, and that's without the common driver burying lead in the bulkhead. :)

@grimsbycleethorpesdashcam

4 жыл бұрын

In my experience (driving 700 miles a week for the last few years) overtaking is literally pointless 99% of the time, unless you are going to break the law (speeding) or overtaking the off Sunday driver it's literally pointless, you allways end catching up / getting caught upto at traffic lights etc

@Asfixiator7

4 жыл бұрын

My rule of thumb is usually if the car you want to overtake has the potential to be faster than yours, don't do it. Arthur in his Suzuki doing 40 in a 60 is unlikely to speed up where as Scott in his A45 Mercedes might and could.

@stevekenilworth

2 жыл бұрын

best one ive learnt. do not follow an audi. close call and had to keep foot to the floor eve tho corners coming up and i defo need to slow. was in the first few weeks of driving. these days i tend to take the car im passing by surprise. too many cannot handle being passed so you are better of blasting past them so if they do try and speed up your speed is far greater so you can get back in. so many make a safe pass to a dangerous high speed pass they they put foot down too instead of maintain speed what HC says to do

@justamanchimp

2 жыл бұрын

@@grimsbycleethorpesdashcam Yeah I realised this too, I guess unless you have a. fast car and are prepared to smash the speed limit, overtaking is pretty pointless in most situations

From approximately 8 minutes 50 seconds it would seem that many people have not taken on board Ashley's closing statement where he states "It's better if you don't put yourself into a situation to begin with" (sorry if misquoted). That is key. Playing the blame game detracts from the lessons that can be learned from this clip. Good analysis and thanks to your viewer for sharing this. Stay safe everyone 👍.

I like the way Ashley said when he saw how close the white car was following the White Van he would not have overtaken. I’ll tell you why I would not have either. That White car was so close to the Van it was shouting at me that they were planning their own overtake. It was a performance car and this was a slow van. Now in Ashley’s overtake we she him assess all round, use all mirrors, see where he can get back in, keep power handy in third, and then overtake briskly without cutting in .... That White car was planning to overtake from an almost tailgating position because the driver wanted to get by quickly and cover the smallest distance of ground. Not only was there no signal from the White Car but I’m guessing they were so despairing of not getting to overtake that they may have been tailgating for a while. In other words anticipate what other vehicles might do from their position, the way they are being driven and how you have seen them behaving on the road up to that moment. The Cam driver was spot on. Good stopping distance so he did not get involved and reacted well to the Emergency. He made the scene safe and checked he was safe before going to help the other driver.

@andrewbryce1287

4 жыл бұрын

The white car looks like an Astra, similar to the model I drive - believe me, it's not a performance car!

Mirror signal manoeuvre every time.

@busog97641

4 жыл бұрын

Spot on!

@GaffaTV

4 жыл бұрын

I think that old fashioned way of doing it should be re-addressed to "Mirror, Signal, Mirror, Manoeuvre" - there's lots of people that think that once they've got their signal on, all of a sudden they have some right of way to do their manoeuvre - which I've seen to be the cause of some near-misses quite often.

@danielfinch362

4 жыл бұрын

I agree the only thing the overtaking car done wrong was not anticipating the idiot who didn't look in his mirrors.

The white car `s posture and distance to the van was a big clue. If I was about to overtake I would be well aware that this situation could change for the worse. I would have not committed myself until I felt sure I had been seen. I would like to say that I pride myself that I manage my life is such a way that do not need to drive at such speeds. Risking my or other peoples lives does nothing for me so I would never have been driving like the grey car. It`s situation I probably would never get into. I hope everyone recovered OK from this experience. Age and experience in life is such a fantastic thing. :-)

@ibs5080

4 жыл бұрын

Love your comments and very much reflects my own approach to driving and indeed to life in general.

As I grow older and find it less easy to twist my neck, I have found that the addition of big blind spot mirrors of great assistance when checking prior to overtaking. I also try to indicate at least five flashes before changing lanes.

@zaink7037

4 жыл бұрын

That's a good idea there. A lot of people tend to move then indicate which sort of defeats the purpose of using indicators

I'm going to screw with this theory.......... What if the car overtaking DID flash his lights, and the driver of the white car took unbrage to this and decided to attempt to block the overtake, or atleast scare the car overtaking?? This may sound crazy, but here in the west-midlands it would not surprise me at all.

07:00 in the video, I agree with it in principle, but despite doing so in a safe manner, I often have people react aggressively when I overtake them. Flashing the headlights before overtaking would only really rebuke them.

Even though the BMW driver may have been going a bit quick compared to the white car, I don't think they did anything wrong. Not looking before you change lane is lethal. I really hope that I am never involved in a situation like this...

Ashley has built up such a great volume of work over the past few years. Very thought provoking and informative video.

I often drive this road (A470 North of Merthyr Tydfil) and this video really concerned me when I saw it. The ravine is very deep and steep sided. Glad the van driver (and everyone else) was alright. Appreciate the analysis Ashley, will definitely consider flashing the lights when overtaking. Increases the chance of other drivers spotting you in their peripheral, even if they aren't actively checking their mirrors.

As a BSM student in the early sixties, I was told to use a beep on your horn to let someone know that you were going to overtake in such a situation. The flash of headlights was ONLY supposed to be used in place of the horn at night. However, the motorways were being built by then, and that is when the 'Lorry Drivers' Code' came into play - the use of the flashing light to signal permission to go.

I'll remember that for certain situations with flashing the light and in regards to the white car I doubt they even looking

@ollieb9875

4 жыл бұрын

In your peripheral vision, you'd be more likely to see the flash.

@busog97641

4 жыл бұрын

@@ollieb9875 then in the drivers peripheral he would, or should have seen a car approaching in their mirror?

@ollieb9875

4 жыл бұрын

@@busog97641 You would hope so. I'm also just saying that for sure it's easier to spot something flashing, like, for example a cyclist with flashing light during the day is much clearer to see than without.

I had a car zooming towards me on my side yesterday who was overtaking about 4 cars, it was terrifying. I reacted fast and slowed my car right down. It's truly scary driving sometimes.

@pebbles8677

4 жыл бұрын

@Ray brilliant reply 👍I take it you're the kind to do a dangerous thing like that then?!

@danquaid7103

4 жыл бұрын

Ray haha ya imagine actually being afraid of being put In a potentially fatal incident that you have little to no control over. If ya don’t see the danger in overtaking 4 cars I think you should be on your bike son

@pebbles8677

4 жыл бұрын

@@danquaid7103 Nope you're wrong, your grammar is awful as well.

Well said regarding flashing lights, used way to much for wrong reasons. Having driven Volvos for years with lights on all the time, I have had instances where cars think I'm flashing them to pull out due to bumps in the road.

Others have pointed out that flashing of lights is prone to misinterpretation and in this case it would be useless as the white car was simply not looking backwards before pulling out. I am primarily a motorcyclist and we have a move called the lifesaver, this is a quick look over the right shoulder before pulling out or turning right, this has saved me on numerous occasions on the bike and in the especially in the car where there is a blind spot between the central and door mirror that cars seem to hide in.

A big shout out to the cammer who got out and went to the up turned vehicle. For all he knew when he got to that car the driver could have been in a terrible way. He doesn't look like a paramedic or anything ( he may be ) so to run up to help like that was very very brave. Well done that guy. 👏

Just before an overtake is generally the only time I use my headlamp flash. The duration of the headlamps on can change the meaning, most times when it is used to give way to others, it is a short flash. A longer flash gets people's attention in a different way. It may appear aggressive, but if it gets you noticed, that's a result. White car's position is a warning, grey car could have used headlamp flash, and horn (short parp), but also look into the mirror of the white car, can you see the driver and his face, what is he doing, where is he looking, can give clues to his actions. (Can be useful with parked vehicles too) White car seemed to hit grey car at its rear corner, so some of the grey car should have been visible to the driver of the white car, even if he was just staring forward, but reactions too slow to steer back in. As white car started to drift, grey car was alongside, but did not appear to notice, here a horn warning might have been useful too.

The low sun (back right) could very well have caused visibility problems for the white car (IF he did look in his mirror or over his shoulder), and this lack of visibility should have also been considered by the overtaking car. If there is a low sun behind you, always be aware people in front of you (at junctions etc.) may have difficulty seeing you. Don't just drive according to your own conditions, consider problems others may be having around you. Great video as always Ash.

@whichwasher2007

4 жыл бұрын

If there was low sun. All cars and Van's should by law. MUST have their dipped headlights on. If the overtaking car had its dipped head lights on (and if it's me that means all the time). Then there is no excuse for that either.

Personally I'll try the single short flash while indicating, but I wouldn't do anything more than that as it just needs to get the driver in front to just glance a the mirror. It could come across as impatient and aggressive flashing multiple times

I don't believe the person submitting the footage was the dashcammer in the video. This clip appeared in a dashcam compilation about 6 months ago.

@middler5

4 жыл бұрын

Not sure it had sound before?

@derekdelboytrotter8881

4 жыл бұрын

Its older than 6 months old, I saw this video at least a couple years ago.

@gordon861

4 жыл бұрын

It's in 4:3 aren't nearly all cameras 1080 or at least 720 widescreen now?

Looking at the position of the low sun it's quite possible there was a blinding sun in the white car drivers side view mirror. But not an excuse. White car at fault.

@kevinmartin8088

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly and a grey car on a grey road!

@Seanmcdhuibhne

4 жыл бұрын

@@kevinmartin8088 Yes, and that is why I mentioned on one of Ashleys videos why everybody should use their dipped lights at all times. Grey cars especially will fade into the shadows of trees and buildings on a clear sunny day.

@will4may175

4 жыл бұрын

@@Seanmcdhuibhne I agree about dipped beams, Volvos usually have them on permanently, only downside is for bikers, having their light on seperates them from cars on the road in daytime to be more visible, if everyone had lights on bikes will blend in, catch 22.

I was taught to flash my light's when overtaking on a country road, with a driver that was especially irratic or doesn't appear to be aware of his surroundings, I have never thought it could be used as an aggressive signal, it shows you how nowadays the flash has been has been misinterpreted, to me it has always meant, hello I'm here.

Great video, much appreciated! Recently had a difficult situation with a driver wandering across the centre line while I was alongside on an overtake. The lights flash wouldn't have made a difference on this one but I'll definitely use it going forward, he knew he was being overtaken because he was looking out of the side window at me... which is probably why he was failing to follow the road. It would be great to educate people about being overtaken.

This is a brilliant video that everyone driving should watch. It demonstrates so clearly how the lack of observation and poor anticipation of what could happen can really get you into trouble. Poor van driver was lucky he wasn't pitched into one of the stout trees

SO many people use indicators as a first thing. I will always wait for a car to pass me on a motorway before indicating. And if someone indicates as I'm approaching or passing them, I assume they are going to just pull out. It just takes a bit of common sense - wait a second o so and avoid the panic moment.

Giving a signal of intention to over take doesn't give you freedom to pass without checking both forward and to the rear of your vehicle.

Too many drivers do not follow the simple rule of Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre. I see it everyday how drivers do not indicate, and clearly don't always use their mirrors.

@6:40 On flashing the lights before overtaking. It literally says in Ukrainian traffic rules. 9.6. To attract attention of a driver you are overtaking, you can use headlights, or even a horn outside built up areas.

@Johnconno

4 жыл бұрын

Was this filmed in The Ukraine?

@artemkatelnytskyi

4 жыл бұрын

@@Johnconno no. I was just making a point that you should use high beams to warn other people of your presence.

@10secondreviews48

4 жыл бұрын

@@artemkatelnytskyinot in the uk

@dlevi67

3 жыл бұрын

@@10secondreviews48 The UK Highway Code says: Rule 110 Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users. You can argue that it's not the way the majority of people in the UK use them, but that doesn't take anything away from Artem's point.

If you watch the slightly longer version you get the sense of how impatient the white car is. Before the accident they had just seen a van overtake and I get the feeling they took the view that it was their turn. They had zero information which allowed them to make a decision to overtake, so shouldn't have even thought about it. kzread.info/dash/bejne/hHug1qR7fsnIYqQ.html

@grahamnutt8958

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for providing that link. It adds an extra dimension to the mindset of the white car driver 👍.

@ibs5080

4 жыл бұрын

I saw that extended version and even before coming to Corkys comment just now, thought the exact same thing regarding the impatience of the white car in the lead up to this. Coupled with what I felt was a very brazen overtake by the dark coloured car, yes this had the all makings of the accident we saw. End result is that a great deal got "Broken at Brecon". All so unnecessary and could so easily have been avoided with patience and restraint. As Ashley often likes to ask, would either of the two cars have behaved the way they did had the white van been a police car instead? I very much doubt it. To my way of thinking, if any manouvre wouldn't pass the hypothetical police car test, then it is wrong. As others have mentioned on here, I find the vast majority of overtaking on two way roads such as this is relatively pointless and quite frankly, just not worth the risk. Personally, for the few mph difference I would much rather just hold back, keep my distance, chill and just enjoy the ride without the added risk. It would have been interesting to ask retrospectively the drivers of the white and dark cars where they they going and were they in any particular hurry to get there? Not that being in a hurry is any excuse. As the saying goes, never pass in this world if by doing so you risk passing into the next.

This was shocking and scary😱. I really hope everyone was okay and even though I've had van drivers be bad I was thinking poor van driver most time. Thanks for the idea of flashing lights Ashley Neal see you soon

Really well presented. 👏👏

The proximity of the white car to the van should have been a danger sign to the grey car. I look carefully at the offside front wheel of a vehicle I overtake and sound the horn if it even begins to move closer to the white line. Having said that the collision was entirely the fault of the driver of the white car IMO

@richardwareing8298

4 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say entirely. The grey car was pushing it a bit overtaking at least three cars at that speed on a two way traffic road. I agree the white car driver didn't look properly.

@davenz000

4 жыл бұрын

@@richardwareing8298 At the end of the day, defensive driving is not being party to an accident. Even if the white car is a moron who can't use their mirrors and signal etc. Grey car left themselves with little option. I'd rather be late.

@fabsy64

4 жыл бұрын

@The Yorkshire Biker No, it's not a dual carriageway. There would be lanes coming the other way on the right hand side if it was.

@TheLinkoln18

4 жыл бұрын

Richard Wareing It was a dual carriageway....

@TheLinkoln18

4 жыл бұрын

Marc Look at the car coming up on the carriage way to the right on the lower carriageway...

That move by the white car seemed almost suicidal! Odd how they didn't appear to brake at the collision point too? I suppose it was panic or something.

@bulwinkle

4 жыл бұрын

Or maybe the person at the wheel, I hesitate to call them a driver, never saw what he hit at all.

@Stettafire

4 жыл бұрын

Panic. Guy would have had his foot over the accelerator. Most people either freeze or try to slam their foot on the break, then panic all the more when they realise it's the accelerator not the break. Especially true for less experienced drivers.

Can I just say, if I'm the black car at the rear I'm not over taking, for the points you made plus I'm questioning why the car behind the van is almost straddling the white line , his positioning is telling me he may be looking to overtake the van , trying to get a better view before overtaking

Here in the UAE (Dubai) and GCC, we frequently use flashing of the headlights and it means to stay or get out of the way... universally

A testament to the strength and crash protection of modern cars. If a collision of that sort had happened in the 1970s, that would have ended very differently. Besides that, my observation is that multi-vehicle overtakes are just about the most dangerous manoeuvre you can do. Inevitably, to clear the queue fast, drivers accelerate fast, and it's easy to have a passing speed over 30mph in a few seconds. Motorcyclists seem to be particularly keen, and I've been passed by some in such situations at speeds around 100mph. The only time I ever contemplate overtaking a queue is never more than two vehicles, and only if it is clear that the vehicle in front of me is clearly never going to overtake if its had opportunities. There's also no reason for the 2nd vehicle you are overtaking to move out as it's the lead one.

@mikehunter2844

3 жыл бұрын

Multi vehicle overtaking is only dangerous if it's done dangerously. That applies to any other legal manoeuvre.

Hi Ashley, great content, very professional and informative.what are ur views on overtaking on a very wide single carriageway road in the middle whilst there is oncoming traffic. I’ve tried looking for answers online but can’t seem to find one. Many thanks Joe.

This dashcam video, the one with the silver Berlingo launching itself over a roundabout and the grey crossover also getting air through a roundabout are my top three driving fail videos.

In my area people would see flashing your lights before overtaking as aggression indicating they are too slow and they would most likely speed up out of badness in retaliation.

I doubt if flashing his lights would have helped - if the white car hadn't seen him he probably wouldn't have seen the lights either. Sounding the horn as a warning would be the best way to ensure that the driver of the white car knew he was there. Just ease off slightly, it's a long straight stretch with plenty of time for the overtake. No need to brake or pull in, just ease off the gas slightly and ask yourself the question, does the white car know I'm about to overtake? If the answer could be no, sound horn and then, if you're sure it's safe, accelerate. Personally I don't usually sound the horn before overtaking but I do occasionally if I think there is a chance that the vehicle I'm overtaking isn't aware of me. It's not aggressive it's just saying 'I'm here'.

@rogerharrison4316

4 жыл бұрын

By the way, 'consider use of the horn' always used to be the fifth step out of six in the 'System' to be used on the approach to any hazard, as contained in my 1986 version of Roadcraft, the Police Driver's Manual. To quote Chapter 7.20 on applying the System to overtaking: 'The horn (Feature Five) is frequently a vital safety factor, particularly if more than one vehicle is to be passed at once or there is a possibility that the driver in front may not be aware of the presence of the overtaking vehicle'.

Flashing of the light....I like it, I'll be sure to do this in future when nessessary :)

If someone tailgate's you toward a lorry when there's no way to overtake be ready for them to overtake you before or at the same time as you attempt to overtake. In my experience aggressive drivers like to try and create problems in your driving so be patient and careful when you sense this aggression from the car behind and don't try to overtake without thinking through

I'm finding there is also a contingent on the roads of self appointed traffic police (old men) who will prevent people from overtaking by edging out. I know this wasn't the case here.

Only flashing beam lights should be considered as POSSIBLY letting other traffic through, but should not be assumed.The practical speeds and posture of cars must be considered at least as important, if not more important because those are the factors that determine collision possibilities to be avoided, even if that form of driving is wrong, risking collision really is not worth it. So a lot comes down to observation, as stated in the video. I don't even trust what indicators say, just in case. Signalling is definitely correct when expected to be used, but assuming that signalling by others is correct can cause problems without regard to how things actually are.

I generally agree with you Ashley but until "flashing lights" becomes a part of highway code, it is a hit and miss really. We all interpret it differently (usually split second to decide) and this lack of uniformity can cause more problems than it solves. TBH, I'd be bemused if someone started flashing me before they start overtaking- granted, I'd pay more attention to them but at the potential cost of perhaps paying a bit less attention to anything else that might be going on. I know, flashing lights should be considered alternative to using a horn but in London it mostly means either Get out of my way, or go ahead, or thanks. Agree on the distance of the wite car from the van- I like to see the mirrors of the vehicle I'm behind, at least they know I'm there. Keep them coming, good stuff as always. Cheers.

@nigelcox1451

4 жыл бұрын

I think Highway Code Rule 110 covers this nicely. Been in the Code all my driving life, over 40 years.

Reading through the comments, what a lot of people fail to realise is that this is actually a dual carriageway. The van ended up on the opposing carriageway, hence at the end of the clip the car coming the opposite direction had to slow down.

@mikehunter2844

3 жыл бұрын

No, its not a dual carriageway. Right lane is for oncoming traffic makes it a single carriageway,

Because a car is close to the vehicle in front doesn't necessarily mean it's going to overtake. It may be a regular tailgater.

I'm sharing this one. Might raise awareness.

This road is the A470 between Libanus and Storey arms. There is another straight section like this which both are popular overtaking spots. When the Astra came past the camera car , they were already 600m along this straight section of road. The white car is at fault in my opinion just because of the lack of mirror check when they attempted the overtake.

I like your videos and I respect your driving attitude, Ashley. However, I would have liked to have seen a LIFESAVER check on both the pulling out and pulling in for your overtake, especially since motorbikes can come up on you very unexpectedly and sit in your blind spot when overtaking. Keep up the good work! 🙂

@ Ashley Neal. What does it explicitly say in the Highway Code about the flashing of lights because since I’ve passed my test I’ve either used it to let people out or moved out when I’ve been flashed. Also I have seen people get flashed when driving slightly slower on motorways. Is this actually the correct thing to do to alert them they’re holding up traffic behind because I always just thought it was aggressive driving. ( I’ve never thought of flashing during an overtake and my instructor never told me this!) Thanks, a new driver! 😀

I disagree with Ashley on overtaking multiple vehicles being more dangerous, I'd say it's a lot safer than the alternative of multiple small overtakes especially if you have to squeeze in because people don't leave any braking distance.

@kwlkid85

4 жыл бұрын

On a straight clear road like that I would have taken all 3 in one as well. For me the only car making mistakes is the white car.

Yes the flashing of the lights would have made a big difference to this incident or maybe just turning full beams on and leaving them on until the overtake was complete. In your overtake ashley the flash was less important because the car you were overtaking had no reason to pull out in front of you, but you lose nothing by doing it so its worthwhile

I certainly think the Astra was mainly to blame, total lack of observation as you said from him and his closeness to the van. Astra man was purely thinking about getting around the van and not what was happening behind. The overtake (seat man), he had built up speed for a safe overtake so I'm not sure that what he was doing was unsafe but Astra man's positioning behind the van caught my eye. His closeness to the van and having moved to the middle would've spelled danger. Flashing the headlights, I'm not sure, I feel in this situation a: astra man wasn't looking in his mirrors anyway and b:if he did glance would he have taken the flash as permission to pull out anyway. Would be interesting to know how this would've been sorted with insurance??

@markwalton8644

4 жыл бұрын

@@MeMe-qm5zz Astra was white!! Never mentioned a grey car???

@markwalton8644

4 жыл бұрын

My Bad! Watching this on my phone so looked like a seat. Shows how generic cars look. Anyway you get the gist of my comments.

Flashing the lights when you go to overtake someone is often like waving a red rag to a bull. Their mindset often seems to be "look at this vvanker, who does he think he is?" I've had people move out to the middle of the road to prevent you passing, blasting the horn and then main beaming you as long as they can stay with you.

Almost had something similar last week. I was following a car behind a tractor and we reached a place where it was safe to overtake. Waited to see if the car in front would go and he/she didn't (was a bit close to the tractor so maybe couldn't see) so I indicated and began a double overtake (not something I usually do). As I entered the right lane and began to accelerate, the car in front signalled and pulled out. Two big differences; he indicated so I had some warning and I had started off from the same speed (catch, match, dispatch) so I could easily slow down and stay behind. Please be really careful with double overtakes and even more with treble ones (as here). I know the white car failed in observation, but his first mirror check (middle mirror only?) would have shown only one car, the camera, well back and not catching. Unless this is a dual carriageway?

As more comments come in, I notice several people saying they reckon this was a dual carriageway rather than single carriageway. Can anyone who knows this stretch of road confirm one way or another? I realize I could be wrong but my own personal opinion is that it is single carriageway, two way, for the following reasons: 1. As noted by others there is a car emerging from a side road on the right. I cannot think of any stretch of dual carriageway that has this arrangement with a side minor road emerging onto the right hand lane of the dual carriageway from the central reservation . Granted there are dual carriageway where the two opposing carriageways are far apart and out of view of each other but surely not with a minor country lane in between? 2. There is a big rectangular road sign facing the opposite way to the cam car, surely a big giveaway that this is two way traffic. I realise there is also a national speed limit sign on the right hand side facing the traffic but these are often placed as repeater signs on two way roads. I would say the much bigger rectangular sign with its back to the traffic is the key indicator that this is a two way road. I often wish the Uk would have had the same system of road markings as the USA and Canada. Two way road = Yellow Lines, One way road = White lines. So simple and effective, and very useful. I can think of several roads in the uk where they give the very dangerous illusion of being a long one way, two lane slip road to an adjacent dual carriageway or motorway...when they are in fact a two way road that just happens to run parallel to and right next to a dual carriageway / motorway situated to the right. Even with signs for two way traffic to warn drivers, these have been overlooked and dangerous situations resulted. The yellow / white line system I feel would have been of great help in those cases.

@grahamnutt8958

4 жыл бұрын

Corky_Butcher has posted a link to an extended version of this clip - it appears to have GPS information on the dashcam. I am pretty sure, however, that this stretch of road is not a dual carriageway 👍.

@baddriverssouthwales

4 жыл бұрын

not dual carriageway. A470 Brecon.

Overtaking on a fast single carriageway takes lots of planning and awareness. Always assume someone could move out. Never stay in a blind spot. Clearly in this case there wasn’t great observation from the left lane car. I suspect the right hand car might have been driving above the speed limit but difficult to assess. I always indicate at least a couple of seconds before I move. I will generally only overtake on a singe carriageway if reasonable progress is being impeded.

Another excellent analysis. To me, that the white car failed to indicate his intentions, or complete proper observations. But his road positioning to me screamed his intentions in these days where people have no consideration for others.

Idiot drivers putting many lives in danger

if he had used a turn signal the other car could've used the horn and maybe prevent this? i do this sometimes on motorways when a lorry indicates in case they haven't seen me

I feel like flashing your lights in any scenario other than to let somebody go is perceived at scolding that driver, as if to say “you’re going too slow!”

Can't think of a time in years when I've done a double overtake in my car on a single carriageway. My car doesn't have a lot of power, and in my experience as a motorcyclist, many drivers wouldn't think to use their mirrors when looking to overtake. Their focus is often soley upon the overtake. I rarely do a double overtake on a motorcycle. Ordinarily, I will look to sit behind the 2nd vehicle at a distance, hopefuly ensure they have seen me, then overtake one at a time. However, what then often happens is that the 2nd vehicle upon seeing me, then accelerates to close the gap to vehicle one ! 'If you want to overtake me, I'm going to make it difficult - you'll have to overtake us both together'. All a bit depressing really.... At this point, I've ascertained that they are a bit of a **** - so I'll usually abandon any attempt to overtake. They get their 'win' of not being overtaken (usually whilst doing 42 in a 50 zone). I'd rather reach my destination in one piece! I wouldn't do any light flashing before an overtake. Whilst an advanced instructor may understand it, I think it would just cause confusion or anger in the vehicle being overtaken. Plus most of them are already angry just by being overtaken anyway! The roads are so aggressive nowadays...

damn i’ve seen that one before and it’s kinda lucky that the vehicle that got sent over the edge was a van, hopefully it meant the driver sustained less injuries than they would’ve otherwise

I'm surprised that the dashcamer didn't say a word!

Personally I would never have flashed headlights in that situation and, to the best of my knowledge, no-one has ever flashed headlights at me when I have been overtaken. I think most people would probably take it as a rebuke that they were driving too slowly or got in the person's way or something like that.

Now an instructor , but have been a motorcyclist for many years, honestly I’d have this see. This coming from the position of the white car, it’s position implies and overtake. I agree with all the points made, however the overtaking car looks to be speeding ( who knows) the white Van is just unlucky here, did nothing wrong and go caught up in some major league stupidity.

The position of the white car behind the van is what the bobbies refer to as the contact point. I would hold off the overtake and be sure the white car is happy behind the white van before overtaking.

I rarely overtake on single lane roads unless there's a significant speed differential between myself and the car being overtaken ie they're doing less than 40 for a long long section on a national speed limit, I'm familiar with the road and can clearly see. It also requires a good deal of trust since often enough whilst just driving on the motorway, if I'm travelling faster, when I go to overtake, they frustratingly increase their speed too. I probably wouldn't flash my lights, but might chirp my horn instead to inform them whilst passing. Lights could probably be helpful for oncoming cars, but as many have said, could be misconstrued by some, and not sure if it would have helped in this situation. To me the white car was absolutely oblivious of the car attempting to pass.

Flashing the light meaning the turn signals? or the headlights?

Flashing lights as overtaking or simple running lights make difference if the other people are not looking for you. Always look before changing lanes....mirrors & over the shoulder for the blind spot.

I have passed 18 cars in one go, but only because they were moving ridiculously slowly, and I had visibility at least a mile (exposed hillside) beyond the lead car throughout. My wife once passed about 200 cars in one go but that is a different story. She didn’t really men to and had no gaps to get back in. On the other side of the coin, if I am following another car and have no intention to overtake I will leave sufficient room for another car to pass me and pull back in.

Personally I’m not convinced the white car had visibility past the van in order to know there was nothing approaching in the opposite direction. I’d have expected them to be a bit further back and edging out more before going for it. In fact I wonder if their intention was an overtake at all, could it have been they reacted inexplicably upon seeing the other car coming through, or they simply lost concentration and drifted out at the worst possible time?

Best thing i think is to just beep your horn 2 times as you are just overtaking and on multiple cars beep every car you going to overtake as people will more likely look to see who is beeping at them and might not move over. And i have had this happen to me when over taking 2 cars sat behind for ages they never went round so i went for it on a good straight and as soon as am side by side with the first car they decide to go for it luckily did not end like this and luckily they spot me and turned back in last second and went back but could easily have turned out like the vid so now i beep and it seems to work get a few stairs by people thing why you beeping but better then ending on the roof.

The van man found a shortcut 😂 hope everyone was okay, this clip is quite old though

Personally I can't help but feel as though the flash of the lights will just be a problem causer. If it's unused to the point where people don't think to use it, when it is used the car who's being overtaken could assume something else, could get angry, so on and so forth.

I wouldn't flash the lights, as Ashley says too many drivers think this is an indicator to go rather than a warning, I fully admit to having overtaken in this manner myself though the one thing I would do is keep my indicator on during the overtake, it would be interesting to know what the police thought about this, was anyone prosecuted?

@ 0:54 there is a car approaching on the other side of the right hand verge, which makes me think perhaps this is a dual carriageway? If this IS a dual carriageway then this throws a whole different light on the “overtaking” manoeuvre, does it not? But I can’t explain the backwards facing sign @ 0:33 (on the other side of the national limit sign) though. Can’t see how that would be appropriate to the other carriageway as it would be obscured by the trees on what would be the banked central reservation. Edit: I stand corrected. NOT a dual carriageway... www.dailymotion.com/video/x6d58cr

One criticism of the cammer. Remember, don't run towards an accident, walk. Use those seconds to calm yourself, assess the situation, ensure your own safety and plan your rescue/response. Never put yourself in danger.

Is this a single or dual carriageway? After the crash, it appears as though an oncoming car to the right is the other side of the embankment and is driving slowly because the van has just come down. If it’s a dual carriageway, the flashing of lights etc, would not come into play.

@mikehunter2844

3 жыл бұрын

It's a single carriageway.

It would certainly seem as though the white car was driving too close and didn't look properly before pulling out

As a claims handler we often use this case law: Joliffe v Hay (1991). The claimant was on a main road approaching a junction, intending to turn right. As he turned he was hit by a car from behind attempting to overtake. The court apportioned liability 70/30 in the claimants favor on the basis that although overtaking car was primarily responsible, the claimant ant used his mirrors only one. Although not 100% accurate to the version of events its accurate enough in respect of what caused the incident.

I wouldn't flash my lights, purely because I wouldn't want the car that I am overtaking to think that he had done something wrong.

I’d be worried that the flashing of the lights could be a trigger to the car in front. You get aggressive drivers up your trumpet, flashing their lights on the motorway occasionally.

It's the people who flash to tell you to move out of the way that I hate.

@uzijn

3 жыл бұрын

I've flashed my lights at people hogging the outside lane when I want to pass them. It wasn't out of aggression, it was purely to let them know that I am there so they can move to the correct lane. If somebody flashes you and you're in the overtaking lane but not overtaking then don't take it as anything more than them letting you know they're there. :)

@adammudd

3 жыл бұрын

@@uzijn it always happens when I am overtaking slower traffic but doing the speed limit... Some bmw driver will start flashing me because I'm doing 70 and the inner lane is doing 65 lol

Even race car drivers have to be very observant. Just reacting is not good enough. Observation helps them drive faster and safer. Looking farther ahead, they can judge an upcoming turn and find the optimal racing line. They must also judge their opponents in-front and around them so as to give space, defend, or overtake at the most optimal time.

I have seen this video many times

Have you ever done a compilation of your mistakes?

What the white car should have done is really simple. I've only been passed my test since December but to me it's clearly mirror signal manoeuvre. He checks his mirrors, he sees he can't possibly overtake the van yet, he stays in his lane to let the overtaking car pass and starts his checks again. Changing lane without checking and signalling if you have time to get across is lethal and moronic, it's not complicated.