Regarding the firing from the hip with the SMs. There is tech in their Bolters that corresponds with their HUD to show exactly where the Bolter is pointed. I get the annoyance but the armor is so bulky that firing from the shoulder simply isn’t effective.

@keldagar

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Although I swear there is some artwork that shows them putting the stock of the bolter (if they have them!) in some artistic depictions from Games Workshop.

@WOLFxLORD

2 жыл бұрын

@@keldagar there's loads of models shooting from the shoulder. It isn't hard for them, astartes armor is designed to not impede their movements, even though it looks bulky and uncomfortable af. The main reason is they do it is that it looks cool, also the during 30k the battlefields are so saturated with targets you could hand a blind man a gun and have him score a hit everytime he shoots.

@Xenomorthian

2 жыл бұрын

@@WOLFxLORD honestly the blind guardsmen is something that's definitely happened

@Brutalyte616

2 жыл бұрын

So funny story. Space Marines will turn to the side and brace their bolters against the inside of one pauldron, whilst presenting the other to the enemy. This gives them added stability for longer range, and is basically standard operating procedure for Tactical Marines, although most Astartes are fully capable of firing a full-sized bolter with one hand with a fair degree of accuracy, and it's actually not unheard of for Assault Marines to forego a dedicated melee weapon or a bolt pistol in favor of dual-wielding bolters, although this is uncommon. And of course there is the absolute heresy of Terminators dual-wielding storm bolters...

Basically everything you said about the effect of Horus being injured happened in the first of the Horus heresy novels. Horus would have never fallen to chaos if he had not personally gone into battle that day.

@VyRe40

2 жыл бұрын

And Ferrus, Fulgrim, Alpharius, Leman Russ, Konrad Curze, etc. Either killed, corrupted, or taken out of action at one point or another because they were there on the front of an operation.

@antonstezhkin5991

2 жыл бұрын

There is more than one way to corruption.

@checktheplaylist101

2 жыл бұрын

"The society that seperates scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done by fools.” -Thucydides

@Bruva_Ayamhyt

2 жыл бұрын

@@antonstezhkin5991 still was obviously a pretty bad idea

@dgurevich1

2 жыл бұрын

@@checktheplaylist101 first time I read this quote, but it's a great one.

Those two marines who were clashing with the power weapons, they're not primarchs. Mostly like they are praetors, which is a catch-all rank in the legions that is roughly equivalent to an O-5 and above. Each Legion had specific titles for their praetors: lord commanders, battle captains, high wardens, paladins, wolf lords (jarls), etc.

@paul-antonywhatshisface3954

2 жыл бұрын

What's an 0-5 bro

@keldagar

2 жыл бұрын

@@paul-antonywhatshisface3954 An O-5 is an officer, in this case a lieutenant colonel, or Lt. Col.

@paul-antonywhatshisface3954

2 жыл бұрын

@@keldagar thanks bro

@bigmoe9856

2 жыл бұрын

@@keldagar now I know

@Telthar

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed, at the very least the one in green can't be a Primarch because that is Horus's Legion and he is their Primarch. Given the one in yellow is about the same size, he isn't a Primarch either. Also, they look exactly like the Praetor models GW is offering.

When it come to how they lead their army, Primarchs vary. This is because each of them were created to be great at everything, like politics, industry management and philosophy, but were scattered throughout the galaxy on different worlds, thus had different upbringings. This lead to each of them being better at more specifics aspects of what they were originally created for. Primarchs who fought in the frontlines are similar to Angron, who cares little for leading his armies and prefers fighting were the battle is at it's thickest, on part because he was raised that way in a fighting arena, and because of the Butcher's Nails that is driving him a little insane. This made him a very skilled warrior but that's it. Then you have Primarchs like Roboute Guilliman who had a normal upbringing. He rose to become not only a great general, but a very good Statesman. It's how he created Ultramare into how it is in the present lore, 500 worlds whose economy and living arrangements outshine most the Imperium's planets today. Horus was the greatest Warmaster that the Imperium had before his fall. He was the type of general who would normally stay at the back lines and orchestrate his armies from the relative safety of his ship. Him entering battle would be rare and only if the situation ever became dire enough, for just because he isn't the strongest of his brothers when it comes to combat, he is still a Primach and could hold his own in a fight.

@smilingbear7430

2 жыл бұрын

I always got the impression that Emps made each primarch to be uniquely suited to specializing in one thing.

@oldeskul

2 жыл бұрын

In the book Horus Rising, you get to see not only how brilliant, but also how devastating an attack by Horus can be when he's not corrupted by chaos and in full control of his faculties. Each primarch had the capacity to process tens of thousands of calculations a minute that would be needed to win any conflict, either planetside or in void. They were built to be perfect weapons, perfect generals, perfect statesmen and exemplars of imperial might and leadership. Of course you have a few of the outliers like Angron who had his capacity severely diminished because of the butcher's nails, Konrad Curze who was slowly driven insane by his visions and the machinations of chaos, and Perturabo who was crippled by his own feelings of inadequacy and was slowly driven insane because he could see the Eye of Terror nearly all the time.

@GreyDoofus88

2 жыл бұрын

It should be noted that Horus knew how efficient Guilliman was in the art of warfare. Which is why he saw fit to plan his rebellion while the Ultramarines were engaged with securing the eastern fringes of the galaxy. Of course tasking the Word Bearers with holding them at bay, was not the best decision Horus made. Faith alone can only carry you so far before it eventually ebbs, then you're left in a mire of doubt and despair.

@bigmoe9856

2 жыл бұрын

@@smilingbear7430 He most likely did, each Primarch is-afterall-a key aspect of The Emperor. Example: Angron-The Emperor's Compassion Sanguinneus-The Emperor's Wrath Konrad Curze-The Emperor's Justice That said...they're Primarchs and are so jacked that to a mortal they're seemingly good at everything at first look, only showing their specialties and weakness when you grasp the whole picture carefully (like Lion El'Johnson being phenomenally street smart when he's horribly people smart). And of course, the planets they landed on were likely selected by the Chaos Gods to help them develope they're particular talents without Emp's intrusion.

@watchonjar

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh even horus didn't fight on the front lines that much, which was one of his biggest pet peeves about his role as warmaster.

Yeah the primarchs being in the frontlines only works because they are demigods, also the two clashing swords are not primarchs. I believe you are confused on what a Primarch is, there are only a handful of them, they are the emperors sons not just a high ranking commander.

@dominikfilip9857

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, titan would still kill a primarch.

@Elmithian

2 жыл бұрын

@@dominikfilip9857 Didn't they try just that at one point?

@clanmclaren6647

2 жыл бұрын

@@dominikfilip9857 not really, Magnus bodied a titan by literally growing to its own size. Primarchs are levels of bullshit people tend to not fully realize.

@uria3679

2 жыл бұрын

@@clanmclaren6647 there are other fictional characters that can do the same thing as Magnus

@clanmclaren6647

2 жыл бұрын

@@uria3679 yes, and?

To be fair it's nigh impossible for most foes to even injure a Primarch to a significant degree. Primarchs survive tank and titan fire and proceed to destroy those vehicles. They are also very much beyond everyone else in terms of speed, reaction time, strength, etc... that there are moments where a Primarch is able to kill off like a battalion of Space Marines without much problems. Which means a Primarch deployed to the right front is a damn good force multiplier and a good example of Schwerpunkt warfare.

Space marine shoot from the hip because their helmets have a heads-up display that shows exactly where their aiming. a space marines armour is linked to their nervous system. Basically the marine thinks about the target he wants to kill and his armour runs the calculations and moves his arms accordingly, the marine just needs to pull the trigger. Which he knows to do when the crosshairs on his heads-up display show he’s on target. And that’s why space marines always shoot from the hip.

@oaschloch7951

2 жыл бұрын

But they don't.

@alexadamson9959

2 жыл бұрын

@@oaschloch7951 don’t what? There’s about 6 different things you could be referring to.

@oaschloch7951

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexadamson9959 They don'always shoot from the hip.

@alexadamson9959

2 жыл бұрын

@@oaschloch7951 Im aware of that. In the video Paul said “they always shoot from the hip.” My comments was directly addressing that statement. I didn’t want to be one of those guys who goes “Well actually” and nit picks the statement I’m addressing. Hope that clears up the confusion.

@xxchaos315xx6

Жыл бұрын

Doesn't really matter if they hold the bolter up or shoot from the hip because as stated, they have a targeting system in their helmet and bolters don't have stocks anyway so even if they hold the weapon up to the aiming position, it's still not being stabilized in any way.

The primarchs aren't just superstrong, they're also supersmart and supertactical. Their intelligence scales with spacemarines the way spacemarines scale with regular humans. For example during the Defence of Terra Rogal Dorn had to stay awake for months on end because the entire loyalist command staff combined with their highly advanced technology was still no match for his raw intellect and tactical genius. As for Horus being so exposed on the battlefield: according to the Vengeful Spitit novel he has a supernatural battle sense allowing him to perfectly read the ebb and flow of the battle. There are very few weapons that can kill a chaos enhanced primarch and apparently if something like that set his sights on him, he would apparently "just know".

"No army would put their chief general in an unsecured front line" Russia's general: hold my radio, I gotta see the front line.

@LethalByChoice

2 жыл бұрын

Why he needs to compare Warhammer to real life so much is beyond baffling.

“Within range of the Titans.” Granted, almost anything not in orbit is within range of a Titan’s guns.

Yeah the only Primarchs that do the whole "Don't put yourself in unnecessary danger thing." are Alpharius and Omegon. Even Guilliman, Horus, and Dorn do the whole warrior king thing on occasion.

To be fair with primarchs, they are Demi-gods of war in every aspect, even the more damaged ones like Angron can be strategic genius’s if they want to, not to mention many tend to command from the back lines or while in orbit….or if they have a point of pride to make, such as Horus on Davin…they also can survive being shot in the head apparently, right through the brain….though that may be plot convenience…

@big_tymerro

2 жыл бұрын

It was Fulgrim who was shot through the brain and survived but it’s because of his regeneration power

@Yuiichiiro

2 жыл бұрын

@@big_tymerro well primarch also has more survivability than a normal human since they have an actual body and the soul, appart from horus who's soul is down bad dead, the other primarch can actually be revived if their soul is taken back from the warp since it was there the Big E took them to craft them.

@big_tymerro

2 жыл бұрын

@@Yuiichiiro yeah but Fulgrim didn’t “die” because of that injury, he regenerated it faster than it could kill it, if that makes sense, I know he still could’ve been revived but he didn’t need that in that case.

@sciarpecyril

2 жыл бұрын

@@big_tymerro, they hit him in the head, didn't they? It did not affect his consciousness and cognitive abilities in any way?

@quimble2177

2 жыл бұрын

@@Yuiichiiro humans have both body and soul, and those that don’t…well, they don’t survive long, and if they do, and are chicks, they become sisters of silence.

5:53 they are not primarch, they are space marine

When it comes to "Heroic leadership" as an ideal, I believe it really comes from the Epic of King Gilgamesh, of Uruk. It is regarded as the oldest recorded story in human history, from Ancient Mesopotamia - the first true civilisation [that we know of] in human history, Uruk being the real oldest city (larger than just a village or town, a true large city of more than a few thousand people) in human history, that we know of - from about 3200BCE... that's around 5200~ years ago... It is also seen as the first and template for pretty much every Heroic story/tale that has ever followed it.

@Sorrowdusk

Жыл бұрын

I think Alexander was the last great general to lead from the front

@leonardomarquesbellini

Жыл бұрын

Gilgamesh is the oldest *written* tale we have, but up to that point and further in time as during Homer's period stories we're told primarily orally, so pointing to Gilgamesh as a narrative template seems out of place.

@GarlicAvenger

Жыл бұрын

@@leonardomarquesbellini That's exactly how it's been used throughout history though? As a written template for pretty much every heroic tale since. Even if a modern story that is based off a different tale written that was later than Gilgamesh - Ancient Mesopotamian Mythology and Tales like Gilgamesh is the root of them, as this civilisation (with writing, agriculture and first true "cities" by definition of what a "city" is) is the "oldest civilisation known" and pre dates all others by a few thousand years. Like think about how many derivative works are said to be "Based on Tolkien's works" - this means that they are ACTUALLY based *primarily* on Norse Mythology (which includes many Gilgamesh-like heroic Sagas) - because that's the root basis for 90% of Tolkien's creations, with a healthy mix of original spins on them and mixtures of other mythologies and folk tales... But back on the tale of Gilgamesh - it may very well be based on other, older, oral tales... but considering we have no way of knowing about them, or tracing them because they weren't written down and they would now be lost to time - then it is (by default) the current root base of all heroic tales. All tales follow at least some of that basic formula or themes as described in that saga. This doesn't mean a story can't be original or do something creative with it... but even having a hero in the story like any other story you wish to emulate, This means it's base themes can be tracible back to the Epic of King Gilgamesh, of Uruk.

@leonardomarquesbellini

Жыл бұрын

@@GarlicAvenger just because something is (recorded to be) older doesn't mean other things that came afterwards necessarily derivative from it, as even if it has or currently exists there would be many other things that never had any contact with it and developed a similar outcome independently.

@GarlicAvenger

Жыл бұрын

@@leonardomarquesbellini That's not exactly what I meant, I mean they can share a common "ancestor" but they generally are considered to be derivative not only because of length of time for the older story to be shared amongst humanity, but also based on whatever it is derived from being unknown. Pick any hero story you wish, tell me what you think it's based on, and I'll tell you why it can be traced to the oldest story known to man. I think you're alluding to a kind of coincidental phenomenon, like how some species of plant and animals have "convergent evolution" based off similar stresses affecting their evolutionary responses. While this is a possibility, this kind of thing is different to human storytelling, as humanity's spread of culture and civilisation was just much faster than the kind of time frames that something like convergences in something so complicated as this. These stories can be traced back as far as Ancient Mesopotamia, and the rather quick acceleration of the spread of this culture through the sudden technological leaps made. Because once they started writing things down, technology and learning advanced ever faster. Transportation is also said to have been vastly improved in the ancient Mesopotamian era (such as larger, more sturdy ocean going ships and the invention of the wheel and thus carts) thus the spread of the stories of this land spread throughout the world. This still took thousands of years, but it's still a lot faster than the millions of years something like convergent evolution needs to happen... and I'll admit it's not going to account for 100% of cases. It's just the vast majority, if not all, of heroic tales that hit the same ques as the Epic of king Gilgamesh are derived from it, or some unknown common ancestor story - in which case, considering it's never going to be known to us, then Gilgamesh is the root due to it being older and having exactly the same content. And for every story that may have been a coincidence (you can't truly know unless we spoke directly with an author, or some kind of info was asked and recorded about it) there will be 3-5 stories with direct lines stemming from Gilgamesh through multiple other tales to the present.

"your general wouldn't be on the front line in a unsecured battlefield" Apparently someone forgot to tell Russia... What's it? Like 8 generals now they've had mooked from being on a unsecured battlefield?

@georgiots1409

2 жыл бұрын

Is it really up to 8 now? Holy crap. Last I heard it was 3 and I was pretty shocked at that number.

@SilverStarHeggisist

2 жыл бұрын

@@georgiots1409 let me double check. Just checked, I was wrong. But close. It's 6 major generals according to Google.

@dinok5697

Жыл бұрын

​​@@SilverStarHeggisist Of course more generals than that have done it too. I can see the trope working if the leader has a competent second-in-command who can lead while the said leader is on the field serving as a morale-boosting symbol on the battlefield.

The question about the primarch escort. Imagine a last generation tank at the battlefield of your civil war back in Lincoln times. Would it need escort? It's a primarch! The topest top of the Emperor's technology way ahead of anything else. The emperium simply has nothing to offer for the escort.

@pakman184

2 жыл бұрын

Funnily enough, he's actually complete right about escorts. Primarchs frequently had escorts of their finest warriors or the best warriors they could make. Corax famously had his special Terminators while Perturabo created the Iron Circle Domitar for example.

@antonstezhkin5991

2 жыл бұрын

@@pakman184 i know. but it was more a reward to the astartes than actual protection. There was no situation when they really saved their primarch... Except one case. And we know how it ended. The bitter truth is that the primarchs needed nither the protection nor their advice. It all was just for show. To keep the moral of the astartes.

@ibarabandrak481

2 жыл бұрын

@@antonstezhkin5991 Well, actually Corax was saved by his escort in some short story.

@antonstezhkin5991

2 жыл бұрын

@@ibarabandrak481 ? What's the name of the book?

@ibarabandrak481

2 жыл бұрын

@@antonstezhkin5991 Ravenlord

In 30k you are less likely to see those Beakie helmets just yet. Only a few Chapters had them in great numbers at this time (Raven Guard and Alpha Legion primarily.) You are more likely to see Mark 5 suits which has the large grill over the face and used vehicle parts because of dwindling resources on both side after the decade or so time of fighting. You will see those Beakie suit being used widespread a little bit after the Horus Heresy when the loyalists chase the traitors into the Eye of Terror. The Beakie suit is a marketing decision based on nostalgia (In part) since it was the first suit from Rogue Trader.

Want to put some lore perspective on how OP and multifacited Primarch's where. Magnus psychically crushed a Warlord Titan and also grew to the size of one and killed it. Angron lifted a 400T Titans leg and prevented it from crushing Logar. Logar killed 2 Titans at once in order to save Logar. On Terra Sanguinius one shot a Warlord Titan and made the entire 6 others run as they couldn't stop him. Primarch's are OP for a reason and where thought to be invincible till Ferrus died to another Primarch. Eldar Avatars, million years old Xenos monsters, Rangdan and Titans could do nothing to them. People don't know the lore. Plus as shown in the novels Primarch's had built in systems and where so advanced they directed the entire battlefield while on the battlefield and had planets beat in days and sometimes a single day unless it was a fortress world or a massively powerful enemy that was equal to them.

Interesting thing - the "leaders are the best fighters" trope also showed up in Chinese literature (romance of the three kingdoms). Most pitched battles in the book went down (allegedly) after a 1v1 or small group of generals/commanders duel, and usually the winning general's army also won the pitched battle.

@Xenomorthian

2 жыл бұрын

There was a funny video on total war three kingdoms where even though the use of triple Liu Bus decimated the entire army just because they had two dueling masters they managed to win since the only units left were generals and the duel masters won every duel

As far as leaders leading on the battlefield, it makes sense when you take into account communication and routing problems in ancient and medieval times, not when talking modern/sci-fi worlds.

This trailer is primarily for dramatic effect, Horus directed most of the Siege of Terra from his flagship, not from the frontlines. Even so, he would have been extremely difficult to kill for anyone other than the Emperor, Rogal Dorn, Sanguinius or Jhagatai Khan, that armour was incredibly durable, and he was far faster than you would think. Plus, the armour has a built-in teleport homing beacon, so he could withdraw at a moment's notice if need be back to orbit.

4:56 this is kind of like asking why doesn't superman have bodyguards.

Is it just me, or did the chosen example given of how leaders don't need frontline experience really just highlights why leaders should really have frontline experience. High level CEO's all being Investment bankers and having no idea what the gruntwork entails is literally one of the greatest problems with the current economic orthadoxy.

”Where are his escorts, where is his protection?” Most likely they’re all dead because he engaged in another fictional leadership trope, which is also in the Odyssey. That is where super powered leaders bring regular human followers along into a situation where you need super powers to survive. It can get really annoying when you start to keep count of how many crews Odysseus goes through on his journeys.

@clonetf141

2 жыл бұрын

in 30k they dont really have that, Horus has his personnal bodyguard in the form of the justearin terminators lead by abbadon. and in most cases, they beat the shit out of other astartes and dont take many casualties. however, for them and other marines in a similar rank, things get interesting when primarchs class because when they fight each other, their elite bodyguards also end up fighting each other, in which case they take more casualties

This doesn't take away from the points you were making. I think Horus was fighting the Space Marine passively. Like his mind wasn't in it. He seem to be focusing on the horizon right after, and also while dragging him along. If I'm right, I think he threw him aside because he realized that he was holding him still. (Side note. It seem to be a new edition of the Horus Heresy tabletop miniature war-game. It's 40k... in 30k.. The trailer might have been in 4k... 0k, enough of that.) Horus is a big dude. I believe the ordinary power armor is around 3 meter tall (Might be just below). Horus is towering over him... Edit: Removed an unintended negative... oops.

Do you have ANY idea how powerful Horus was lol? He confidently stood by himself because he knew there wasn't anyone but the Emperor himself that could take him.

Tell me you havent read a horus heresy book without telling me you havent read a horus heresy book This guy:

It's nice to see you back on Warhammer lol, you should check out some Warhammer fantasy lore, especially that on the Empire Steamtank or Clan Skryre (As I've gathered you're into the DKoK due to their WW1 aesthetics and the Clan Skryre Skaven have the WW1 aesthetics of fantasy) or hell even the Dwarves due to them being more technological rather than magical.

I would love to see you react to the Amaris Civil War over on Tex Talks Battletech. It's an insane level of conflict and nationhood I think you'd be able to really sink your teeth into. It's also incredibly long, which means you can milk it for a whole lot of money.

@sestrarsestror3417

2 жыл бұрын

I wholeheartedly second this request. It may also get you interested in yet another Universe. Or at least have some moments you like.

@PRC533

2 жыл бұрын

Battletech is a fantastic universe and rivals 40k in complexity and depth, if not outright beats it.

@AAhmou

2 жыл бұрын

@@PRC533 It dips a little bit towards the Dark Age.

@PRC533

2 жыл бұрын

@@AAhmou honestly anything dark age related I just mentally blocked. Some of the more recent books have been able to retcon a lot of the horrible wizkids story though.

I'll never get tired of hearing someone who knows what their talking about cover these fantastical settings.

The thing with Primarchs is that they each had their own style of commanding, bc of how different their upbringing was. Angron was brought up a slave forced to do gladiatorial combat and had implants placed in his brain that made him feel intense physical pain unless he was killing something. He despised the Emperor, the Imperium, most of his brothers, and wasn't fond of his legion either. He didn't care for being a good leader. He literally left his legion for a couple years to spend time alone on some savage backwater, killing time by murdering local fauna until Kharn found him and convinced him to come back. When Russ had him surrounded by a couple squads of Space Wolves, he didn't care for a second he was about to be blown to bits, he was ready to swing his axes at Russ. More than anything he wanted to die, preferably after he got back at the Emperor for what he done to him... Khan, Sanguinius, Russ, Mortarion, to an extent the Lion, Vulkan, Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim were very "in the thick of battle" leaders bc of what they valued and how they were brought up. The pattern seems to be that the more feral and backwards the world, the more warrior-like leaders the Primarchs are. On the other hand there were Primarchs like Dorn, Perturabo or Guiliman, who didn't care about personal glory and did what they deemed to be the most efficient way of dealing with their tasks. The only time they themselves went to battle was when the situation was awful, their soldiers needed them, and they didn't have more important tasks. They came from the most civilized worlds. Macragge, Inwit and Olympia were paradise worlds compared to Baal, Barbarus or Fenris.

Well you arent far off with Primarchs being a bit unnecessary. They were built to be generals yes but even before they were found, the legions worked fine for the most part. And some Primarchs do generally go into commanding rather than being in frontline (Guiliman, Ferrus and Rogal for ex.)

@alexyoblick

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly the two legions that could have managed without their Primarchs were most likely the World Eaters (in the early days they were known as the War Hounds) and the Death Guard (previously known as the Dusk Raiders). War Hounds were already close combat specialists, but they weren’t insane due to something like the Butchers Nails. They simply understood that they could deal with most enemies better in melee. The Dusk Raiders were actually a pretty bog standard legion for the most part with only a slight preference towards attrition tactics (unlike when Mortartion showed up and made their entire doctrine ALL about attrition tactics). They also apparently used to work really well alongside the Imperial Army.

@donkface8509

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexyoblick I would include the 1st, if they werent bogged down or sent proper aid into combating the Rangdan

@alexyoblick

2 жыл бұрын

@@donkface8509 oh yeah the Rangdan really screwed them over. And I could agree that the 1st legion could have managed without the Lion somewhat, of course he did make them way more efficient.

Horus is the guy who start the horus heresy but the person who carried the horus heresy is Perturabo otherwise the civil war will easily put down since all his brother went insane after they join chaos so he has to organized everythin to make sure it succeed but he bail out half way when they smashing the golden palace..

@TheHandofDestiny

2 жыл бұрын

Perty, Lorgar, and Angron were the only ones that did their job

@azron4537

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheHandofDestiny Angron is a double edge sword, he doesn't take order from no one after he become demon primarch & Perty has to beat the shit out of him..

@TheHandofDestiny

2 жыл бұрын

@@azron4537 Yeah, but he helped with the Ultramarines which is what he did in most of the heresy

@BeatmasterAC

2 жыл бұрын

Horus was the result. The main culprits, who planned and instigated everything were lorgar, erebus and kor pharon.

In the case of primarchs they are both the most powerful warriors and the best commanders by virtue of their own biology, and they have actual literal plot armor in cannon due to their connection to mankind’s collective power and the chaos god’s interest/investment in their own fate.

I'm surprised you had no comments about the titan being obliterated by a space-laser. Just goes to reinforce your points about orbital bombardment being efficient, and titans being... not so efficient, lol.

@notdoomguy1616

2 жыл бұрын

Well... that's only sort of half true. Why have ground forces in general if you can just BLAM everything from orbit? Because, in vast majority of the cases there will also be a battle over space supremacy happening at the same time as the ground battle. Titans do have a role, it's just a very niche one, which, incidentally, is one of the reasons they are not deployed willy-nilly.

@jakobknudsen6864

2 жыл бұрын

@@notdoomguy1616 That's fair. A more precise statement would probably go along the lines of "Orbital strikes are under-used in a lot of 40k material, and titans are over-used." But of course, titans are cooler than orbital strikes, so I don't really expect this discrepancy to go away any time soon lol.

In response to his question about Horus being exposed to Titans, is he aware Angron got literally stomped on by a Titan and survived? Primarchs are not human, they are living demi gods

"Your leader should not be on the frontlines." I know a lot of comments have given plenty of lore reasons justifying the fact that the are, like them being demigods, more adept at commanding company level instead of campaign level, or what have you. However, there is one massive and very important reason for Primarchs to be on the frontlines that everyone is ignoring. They're there because it's fucking awesome.

I think the space marines shooting from the hip is less to do with them being super humans and more to do with the sensors and optics in their helmet

1:49 love your channel Paul and your insights militarily I won't argue with , in fact you give me faith that good officers exist . But your reading and nautical knowledge is a bit off , the Odyssey is a fiction yes , but its a fictionalised set of sailing instructions for the Agean ......... and Achilles and Patricles aren't really in the Odyssey they are in the Iliad , Odysseus is in both

Whoa an ARMY COMBAT VETERAN does this and that!! What a badadd ARMY COMBAT VETERAN, just like they had in 1940’s. You just have to admire this brave COMBAT VETERAN

4:23 thats not true the primarchs are in the positions of leadership because each one of them is a tactical genius when it comes all facets of war. When the emperor rediscovered his sons every one aside from horus, alpharias, omegon and agron had united an entire planet under a global conquest or rallied troops to defeat some world ending threat. Even if you take away all thier physical super powers they would all still be selected to lead thier armies. Id also add that you arent taking into consideration that these guys are demigods, sure some normal general wont add much to the battle if he is personally on the ground lending his small arms fire to the fight, but a primarch is this absolute force of nature that tactically can change the course of battle significantly. So not deploying them is like not deploying one of your most powerful weapons even if there is great risk if they die. but to your point about protection, they do actually have honour guard but they are mostly for show because again primarchs are unstoppable actual 1 man armies.

@dinok5697

Жыл бұрын

I'd argue damn hard to kill more than impossible. Plus if the quote "You stole power from the gods" is true, then the Primarchs were likely created using knowledge the Emperor acquired from Chaos at some point. Which would explain their frightening strength and survivability

Not always true regarding primarchs. Many primarchs are front line combatants (Angron, Horus, Russ, Khan especially) many prefer to be on site but somewhat removed from the fighting (Guiliman, Sanguinius, Vulkan) but usually they’re removed in a command post and engaging in wider strategy (Dorn, Lion, Perturabo, Manus, Alpharius). They can all stand up in combat, but they also all have incredibly minds for strategy. Some, like Magnus and Lorgar, would hardly even consider themselves great warriors and strategists, but more philosophers. But they do lead well, mostly because they’ve been genetically engineered to do so. They process data, plan, and fight faster than even the best space marine minds.

Horus heresy is a civil war between the between the space marines and it was the the emperor and his loyalists space marines vs his favorite son Horus who is now serving the chaos gods

So you have to remember that Primarchs can process information arguably faster than most technology can relay it to them. Primarchs will often issue commands to their fleets about how to maneuver before the crew have time to process the information being displayed to them. So having Horus take to the field and survey the battle with his own eyes and ears and relaying orders accordingly is about as close to a hivemind as Space Marines will get, short of what the Thousand Sons pulled off with their psychic powers, so there IS a tactical justification to it. And the other thing is that Primarchs are incredibly hard to kill; Horus himself was the first individual in the Imperium's then centurues-long history that required a full kill-team from the Officio Assassinorum, because each of the Temples had failed to kill him individually, which was so unprecedented that the Temples actually were against the idea of sending more than one assassin to kill Horus and end the civil war because it had simply never been necessary before. And even with 7 Officio Assassinorum agents all coordinating to try and kill him, Horus thwarted them at every turn whilst coordinating the entire Heresy; Horus was playing chess with the Assassinorum, while also playing 4D non-linear Go with the rest of the Imperium. And let us not forget that Horus was fairly average physically by Primarch standards.

I get what you're laying down about leadership. Another good example would be Eisenhower. If I recall correctly he never saw combat either.

The point about their escorts is a valid one. In the fiction, most Primarchs do have a dedicated corps of bodyguards. Horus has the Juasterin, Sanguinius has the Sanguinary Guard, the Khan has his keshig, Perturabo has his Iron Circle. It is an odd omission, it could have been a cool cameo for Abaddon, who was the head of the Juasterin (or however you spell that). Granted in that case they may have been elite vanguard troops rather than the actual bodyguard of Horus, my memory fails me a bit. To be fair, trying to apply real-life logic to Warhammer is a bit of a losing proposition, but it's always fun to watch!

Hey @Combat Veteran Reacts i have a question about 7:05 where you say its bad form to shoot from hip. Do you think its bad even if you can see and that shoulder mount is always more stable? What i mean is, the gun reticle and what the gun sees is in their heads up display. So disregarding this, even if they can aim perfectly, would it be more stable from shoulder?

to a certain extent Horus has actual plot armor. the chaos gods need him to live long enough to fulfill his destiny. So kill shots, and assassin teams literally have the universe working against them. even so Horus comes close to death on several occasions. he ultimately fails and dies trying to kill the emperor and gets severely injured and maimed by Russ prior to that

On the point of shooting from the hip, the reason they can do that is that their helmet's HUD displays the point of impact.

It's kind of hard to aim down sights when you have portraits that big

the titans during this horus heresy time period were often not in the same military organization as the infantry and more so on the field to fight another titan legion that they had beef with. your comment about infanty being there to support the titan legions isn't necessarily wrong, but the infantry of the time was more often thannot more interested in beefing with the other infantry. However, in the light of the 40k time period rather than the 30k time period depicted here, infantry do indeed support the titans because the titan's shields are like a bubble so anything inside the bubble can injure it while those outside will have a much harder time having to bring down the shields. so think of this time period as a big street gang fight. titan legions were beefing with titan legions mostly because of petty rivalries and now they had an excuse to duke it out. infantry beefed with other infantry because they saw the other side as wrong. that's mostly it and why it seems to not really match to true tactics. also the titans were more interested in each other rather than horus as the beginning. so while yes military tactics were a thing in this time period and overall on a system wide scale you can see tactics probably being pulled out, in each war, there's a lot of just straight beefing as opposed to traditional proper war.

on primarchs at the front: they literally cant die unless another primarch does the deed. and most of the time primarchs are somewhere high with a good view with a comms team.

Hey Paul, you should make a video in an mma gym showing why those stupid self defense videos don’t work

You're talking combined arms tactics as if branches we have today,like this, electronic warfare etc. even matter in 40k aside from few scant mentions.

I think the whole personal prowess thing back in the day evolved out of command necessities. There were no radios or anything, so commanders had to be very close to the troops. And as they wore shiny stuff in order to be recognised, they were easy targets. So they practically had to be superior fighters.

Paul, how would you measure what makes for a good soldier?

I remember you saying that you were interested in Rogue Traders. Lutin and MajorKill both have videos on them. Grimdark Narrator also has videos on them.

Titanbengines engaging basically muzzle to muzzle.

Finally some 30k-40k content 👍👍👍👍

Nice intro to build up to the video

As for them fighting they may not have a choice. It they hang back they might appear to be weak and that would damage their standing and their authority.

@idkusernameeggatron4652

2 жыл бұрын

They are chaos infested. Their brains rotted out long ago.

Paul, I'm sorry to say this, but I disagree with nearly everything you've said. 1) I don't think you're really understanding this universe and are overanalyzing tactics, strategies, and rationales and comparing them to real life, which, not sure if you've noticed but the world of Warhammer 40K isn't real life nor can you even compare it to real life. 2) I severely disagree with you about leaders not needing to be among the best in skill and simply be good leaders. I'm not going to trust my leader if they haven't been in the same position I am in, and whether you believe it or not, experience in that same field DOES benefit you as a leader. It's not required, but it's necessary for a multitude of reasons. Alexander the Great did, Napoleon did, Robert E. Lee did, Ulysses S. Grant did,, George S. Patton did, etc, etc. *3)* The tactics and strategies of the Primarchs and Space Marines are just fine. Primarchs are so tough they essentially can take many shots from tanks and still be standing, why do you need to watch every step you take when you are a walking tank? They are very hard to kill. Space Marines have targeting reticles in their helmets and thus do not need to shoulder their weapons. The recoil alone doesn't make sense for them to shoulder their weapons either as they can control the weapon easier in a short bulky frame. Their arms are so strong they can take the recoil in any case. Just because you don't understand the tactics and strategies used in a sci-fi universe filled with technology and takes place tens of thousands of years in the future, does NOT mean they are using improper tactics as you think they do. *3)* I dislike that you take Warhammer so seriously by trying to compare them to real life as if it needs to be considering it's Warhammer. Also that comment about "why would you drag him and throw him?" oh I don't know, maybe because it's a sci-fi fantasy universe about superhumans and warriors, and that was simply for dramatic effect because it's a Warhammer 40k trailer. I just don't understand what is so hard about not looking through a fictional fantasy universe setting through a in-universe perspective being a fan, rather than through the eyes of a real life veteran. It's simply utterly redundant to look at Warhammer through the perspective of a real life veteran. It's great that you're into Warhammer, but if you're going to pick apart dumb shit and try to compare it to real life or comment about the rationale and logic behind every facet of the universe, then maybe Warhammer isn't for you. Warhammer is Warhammer, it doesn't need to make sense and its exaggerated for a reason, because it's fantasy. This isn't the first Warhammer related video you've made where you make comments where you focus way too much on comparing it to real life and acting confused about certain things said or being shown. It just seems like your perspective doesn't align with the universe. Am I wrong? Maybe, but you won't reply to this comment anyway, but I do hope you'll see it. You should start looking at Warhammer related content through the eyes of a Warhammer lore and Warhammer fan perspective rather than as a real life veteran, because you and I both know the two do not mix at the same time.

@user-kc9yn8my7q

2 жыл бұрын

And if say IRL ever meets Warhammer those "proper" tactics wouldn't mean shit to those of WH even with their loss of technology they are superior plus their quantity of military not to mention if they say fuck it and consider Earth not worth effort and expense of resources they could just do Orbital Bombardment and kill everything living on our planet they are not shackled by Human Rights to give a shit about civilians which by killing them will brake our armies morale and they will desert bcause why bother fighting when best option in this is gathering your family and running (That is if they can run) then there is problem that in Imperial eyes we are heretics and they will purge us from root and stem from youngest to oldest Kinda annoying to look at it from IRL perspective

I'm curious, if we assume that the Greek heroes you mentioned are based on real people, isn't it likely that they WEREN'T necessarily mightily warriors, but this martial prowess was invented later?

The British hated that Americans didn’t wear brightly colored cloths and stood in a perfect line to get mowed down. War changes. Being able to adjust aim on a full auto RPG launcher with a flick of the wrist seems a lot better then a full body adjustment to change aim.

That note about CEOs is actually really true some studies done said you could drop a random person with no training into a position and they would do just as well as a junior CEO who's been to college for years and experience as a ceo of one company is pretty much useless in a different company even in the same industry lol

@LethalByChoice

2 жыл бұрын

This is true, and it's why his example of CEOs doesn't make any sense nor does it fit into the points he was trying to make.

good point about fultility of war:)

While 40k does have plenty pf leaders and even Primarchs who lead from the back, the "where are his escorts" bit is true here. Horus is supposed to have an honour guard who would've secured the field before he even arrived, however they were omitted for the purposes of the trailer. Also, Horus is the only Primarch here, the other two characters fighting are either Praetors (the highest in their respective chain of command) or dedicated Champions, whose purpose it is to slay the strongest enemy combatant, which would've made a lot more sense. Also in fairness to Horus, if the Titan turned to face him, he'd just teleport away. Those Titans aren't known for being the swiftest to bear arms.

No. The Primarchs aren't leaders because they are the best warriors. They are leaders because they are the emperors sons. They are leaders because they were made by him to be leaders. The fact of the matter is that correlation does not equal causation. The Primarchs are the most powerful warriors because they have to be. And if you look at the lore most of the more level headed Primarchs that were the best of the Primarchs at leadership, tactics, strategy and administration like Raboute Guilliman, Rogal Dorn and Sanguinius that stayed with the emperor are still near undefeatable in combat. It takes a Primarch or the Emperor himself to take down another Primarch. On another note there are only 18 active Primarchs with 2 of which there is no info about (19 if you count Alpharius and Omegon as two Primarchs). The guys with the blue swords aren't Primarchs they are just space marines.

Okay, so Horus Heresy, from what I understand, is a new tabletop wargame from Games Workshop. It's rules are based on that of 7th edition 40k if I recall correctly. A user named Pancreasnowork recently did a video on it that explains it better than I can, if you want to watch that on your own time.

Not just super human, boss man. They got tech that supercededs our own by miles.

At the beginning you say why does Horus not have an escort. You have to consider he is corrupted by Chaos and he has just finished a close range engagement. You can see the dead liter the grounds. His escort likely killed. Notice also Horus killing the lone marine missing an arm is a commanding officer. Horus has broken a chain of command in the Imperial Fists. He drags the corpse of the Marine so that any potential Fists can see and be demoralized. Horus is consumed by hate if his voice doesn't give it away. Hatred for his father and jealousy towards Rogal Dorn, Primarch of the Imperial Fists.

Since you asked for recommendation, have you seen the official armouring ritual for a Space Marine produced by Games Workshop a couple weeks ago? It's pretty cool, less than 2 minutes of KZread Fu and you'll find it.

Yes, the space Marine is superhuman but their suites and weapons are also developed to help them hip fire.

Bezos actually did ship books himself. Amazon started out from a garage.

With the chaos leaders also being powerful sorcerers, they also qualify as short range hyper specialized artillery, yeah? In that case not using the leader in combat is wasting firepower...still probably not worth the risk though.

Perhaps you're thinking of the Iliad not the Odyssey. The Odyssey is mostly Odysseus' journey home after the Trojan war. Alexander the Great reportedly kept a copy of the Iliad with him always and was known to lead his troops from the front, hence his lung wound in the Mallian campaign.

You should look at the Halo Wars trailer, it's literally both generals walking towards each other while a battle is going on. Cinematic as hell, but same problem I guess.

Alpha legion had bolt shells specifically designed to defeat the armor of another astartes....waaaaay before the heresy suspicious 🤔

I think a bolter would have way too much kick to aim down the sights if not shatter your arm.

@alexyoblick

2 жыл бұрын

Well space marine physiology plus their armor would be able to handle the recoil. And regular humans can use bolters like that and be fine (of course they need to use scaled down and adjusted models compared to Astartes pattern bolters).

Don't forget that war only feeds souls and hurt feelings into the Warp, making the Chaos God's stronger!

I still maintain the thought that Space Marines just want to smash. Their big kids at heart that just wanna sword fight, “just let me melee like knights’n stuff!” Bolters aren’t their primary weapon! It’s just a thing to do while your running into melee, like a deadly fidget spinner!

I was an 0311 in the marines and I get what you're saying about military leaders on the front lines. In practical terms it's extremely stupid to have someone that important directly in combat. It's not seen nearly as much in the Imperial Guard which operates more like an actual military. But as far as primarchs are concerned, they're literally 9-10 foot superhumans that have the ability to regenerate, they're physically stronger than superheroes like Captain America or Thor, and are like demigods compared to astartes which are like demigods compared to normal humans. Plus they all wore the best wargear the imperium ever made. The Emperor gene crafted each of his sons to be ultimate military leaders and warriors. To have an idea of how mind bogglingly powerful they are, Angron was stepped on by a titan and lived, Guilliman survived being sucked into the vacuum of space without a helmet, and then there's Vulkan who's a perpetual and will come back to life even if he's killed. They do get injured from time to time and some were even killed in the heresy by other primarchs. Plus a lot of them have some innate psychic abilities. Sanguinius and Konrad Curze could literally see the future. Magnus was a psyker who could destroy titans with magic, and in comparison to Astartes, primarchs could easily kill mobs of them. They're not invincible, but short of blowing up their ship or the planet they're on, it's nearly impossible to kill one on a battlefield. It would be the equivalent of having a military leader who is also a superhero. Why wouldn't they be on the frontlines if they're practically invulnerable to most things? That's good for allied morale and it would cripple enemy morale if you knew the enemy leader was a demigod leading an army of superhumans to conquer your planet.

@dinok5697

Жыл бұрын

Your last statement is the exact one I've been making lately, but with the addition of an effective temporary replacement to keep things under control while you're inspiring your own soldiers. The 40K shenanigans might appear unrealistic to people today but the works of today were once believed unrealistic and impossible in the past. So maybe people like the Primarchs could exist with the right technology and understanding. Sorry if this comment got a little long

The noble hero thing goes back way before Greece. It's at least traceable to Gilgamesh.

Horse was the only Primark in this video the rest were space Marines , Titans and or vehicles

Why is everyone in corvus armor?

Great video! This is the announcement trailer for the 2nd edition of the Horus Heresy game. They are making the good old Mark VI Corvus armor in plastic for this. I'm not a huge fan of the rules that go with GW games, but I might have to pick up a box of "beakie" marines to use in some other skirmish games I play.

Loool, chorus lookes exactly like you

No ravenguard, but lot of 20th legion guys in this video....

Its a preview for the Tabletop 30K on 40K sets without paying Forgeworld Prices. Sad as they got a workable CGI here for a TV Series.

Fantastic video again! Missed seeing the 40k content. Either way continue spitting truths and educating my dumb butt

Sir, if you are looking for a space marine chapter that is actually reasonable with their tactics I recommend you take a look at the Raptor’s chapter from Boltemort. You may be surprised n for a pleasant surprise.

bruh, escort? he can probably teleport, and his escort aswell if they are in terminator armor we are talkin about the being that "ended" the emperor🤔plus looks pretty fn cool

7:12 because in 30k war hours heresy the black legion more organized than the imperial army, so the imperial army is falling apart.

As much as I hate Amazon, Bezos begun by packing & shipping books.

Check out Hired Steel, its a fan made battletech machinama, only 2 episodes with a pilot but still very good

I mean, if we talk space marines I'd rather say their helmets have HUDs showing where the bullets will fly.

could you react to house of cards by frost? it’s a scripted story but it has one of the best endings ever in a piece of media + there’s a cool ambush at the end

10:00 -- lent them the money. The UK finished paying off its WWI debts to American banks in the mid 2000s.

Hey you should love see reaction to the anime Gate. It's basically JSDF with outdated weapon fighting against medieval/roman army.

Horus was protected by the 4 chaos gods tho lol