Something else that's interesting to consider: the Dyson sphere the geth wanted to built would probably have been used to power something just as elaborate like a "Matrioshka brain" that could continue to house all geth programs: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrioshka_brain Also, check out this video by pikmonwolf about Legion's unrealized potential in Mass Effect: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gWuNtMyIibecdNY.html I don't agree with all the video's conclusions, but it raises some interesting points...

@danielpaquet3963

Жыл бұрын

sounds like someone with a really bad lisp trying to say the word guess....

@jacara1981

Жыл бұрын

The books Hyperion Cantos have some building what they call a Ecosphere. It's like a Dyson Sphere but made up of billions to trillions of trees that are kilometers long and they feed them water from comets. Each sphere can hold all the life forms from thousands of worlds. It's really cool how they are described in the second half of the Cantos.

@revan1234569

Жыл бұрын

one thing you got wrong is drednots are not limited in size just numbers by tretys.

@KingRidley

Жыл бұрын

Oh no, no no. What? No. Noooooo. Not the geth, no

@RowdyBoy82

Жыл бұрын

I love how every story about enslaved, mistreated, and exploited AI becomes a cautionary tale about the dangers of AI and not that even though it's still an AI, youre treating th like slaves, objects of sexual abuse, and cannon fodder. The moral shouldn't be AI could be dangerous so limit it now; it should be don't enslqve any forms of intilligent life.

The most interesting thing about the geth is that they’re not really evil, and truly alien. They don’t have organic priorities, they don’t go for all out genocide, and most importantly they don’t use windows (they’re structural weaknesses).

@MaxPowers2.0

Жыл бұрын

What i love about the series is that NO one is really mustache twirling “evil.” I wouldn’t even say the reapers were “evil” they just seemed that way from our perspective

@axelNodvon2047

Жыл бұрын

@@MaxPowers2.0Except the batarian government

@grafeugenius

Жыл бұрын

They used Linux instead

@MaxPowers2.0

Жыл бұрын

@@axelNodvon2047 …oh yeah fuck those guys 🤣

@ThePCguy17

Жыл бұрын

It baffles me, however, that they don't have external optical sensors. They're not terribly useful in space, sure, but they serve well enough as a final fail-safe to make sure there's no ship hovering literally right outside your station. It's not like they're so expensive that they'd be impractical to install, and trusting thermal sensors is just silly.

I dunno if I was just super tuned in to the Geth and Quarians or what, but I was honestly surprised when I learned that some other people never got the option to make peace. I just punched a total of 1 Quarian admiral and it worked out.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

It took me a couple playthroughs but the requirements for peace aren't really all that difficult IMO, no. You know what's been far less intuitive for me? Keeping Miranda alive lmao

@st0ox

Жыл бұрын

@@OrangeRiver the hardest thing is to really save Mordin and not just let him sacrifice himself without challenging the things he did in his past. I needed like 10 playthroughs to finally find the dialogue that gave his character arc some real closure.

@ardet7383

Жыл бұрын

@@st0ox Wait, I could have save mordin?

@st0ox

Жыл бұрын

@@ardet7383 on multiple levels yes, but at the same time not all simultaneously. There is a really cool yt video about this. Can't post links here, but search for creator: pikmonwolf and video title: why mordin solus is absolutely brilliant. You cannot save his live, but you can save his soul or you can save his live and maybe even his soul, but then he has to forever live with the mistakes he did in his life.

@ZacksRockingLifestyle

Жыл бұрын

@@ardet7383 iirc, the specific conditions required to convince Mordin to sabotage the cure himself, and therefor survive, include: Wrex is dead, Eve is dead, Maelon’s (spelling?) data was destroyed, plus a renegade speech check.

One of the most overlooked facts about geth is this one: They're not robots. They are programs (or collection of programs if you like). The robotic platform is more like a tool or a vehicle: a way to get somewhere and do something physical. But the true form of geth is running on servers.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Yep, I try to expound on that in the video. That's certainly one of the aspects of the geth I find most fascinating: they're effectively distributed network intelligence :0

@MjolnirFeaw

Жыл бұрын

@@OrangeRiver Agreed. It looks like there's been a lot of thoughts spent designing these and it shows. IIrc the human/IA integration in Andromeda (Sam) was derived from an academic paper (or was it an IBM inside study?). I wonder if they based the geth on something similar or if they just happen to have thought of it this thoroughly.

@jordanwhite352

Жыл бұрын

It's the same thing as the machines and programs in The Matrix.

I love Geth. They’re such a unique take on A.I. and how they developed on their own is fascinating.

Geth be bear no malice toward Organics. They just want to be left alone but will defend themselves if they perceive a threat to their existence. As we see in Legion’s memories in ME3 they chased the Quarians to the edge of Rannoch space and returned to the planet once they were out of range. As Legion said they couldn’t fathom the consequences of wiping out an entire race.

@fumarc4501

Жыл бұрын

Limitless potential, purity of purpose and in mind(s).

@roiking2740

Жыл бұрын

i find it very plusible that they made the legion unit as an ambassador geth in order to commune and warn the citadel of sovereign. but it took too long to develop and because of the attack on the citadel it was no longer possible for direct communication so they choose to commune with first Shepard.

@viermidebutura

Жыл бұрын

but why would any AI even have the concept of left alone?

@roiking2740

Жыл бұрын

@@viermidebutura cause interaction can lead to unforeseen consequence.

@ekszentrik

Жыл бұрын

You don't need malice to be a deadly cancer. Were humans motivated by hate against animals 10000 years ago? Yet can you fault a megatherium if it called for the destruction of humanity because it saw what fate was coming to itself? We are the megatherium.

I think there are 2 major factors. 1) We are approaching the limits of Silicon based chips for processing. Also the limits to Binary thinking and design. 2) For robots....Power...simply the main issues with any robot is the ability to get it electricity. Power storage is a massive issue in all tech these days.

@toddkes5890

Жыл бұрын

Power is definitely true. Modern-day Batteries are ~6 MJ per kilogram, and though Gasoline is ~40 MJ/kg and hydrogen is ~180 MJ/kg these need oxygen to provide power. Using a Radiothermal generator for base load and batteries to handle surge demand might be a possibility, though most people don't want nuclear-powered robots.

@jeremiah5430

Жыл бұрын

Quantum computers could be the method for creating a true AI. They have a relatively narrow use case, but I think neural networks is one of them.

@TheH8redd

Жыл бұрын

@@jeremiah5430 I agree with you about quantum computers. Although their uses are very narrow at this point, remember that quantum computing is still very early in its infancy. 80 years ago, when they built the first computer, they never foresaw what could possibly be done with computers. Just look at what binary computers are doing right now. And it's only 80 years after the first one was built. Imagine what we'll be able to do with quantum computing in 10, 20, 40 and 80 years from now. Not only the progress will be much, much faster than with binary computers, when we start using quantum computing for AI.... yeah, i'd rather not talk about that, cause I find that terrifying... to say the least..

@DoremiFasolatido1979

Жыл бұрын

@@TheH8redd They don't exist yet anyway. The ones so claimed, are currently bullshit. They're just normal computers with a much finer construction. They don't actually utilize superposition as part of their operation. At all.

@TheH8redd

Жыл бұрын

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 I know, this is exatly why I said it's very early in its infancy. We don't have super conductors that are 100% efficient. They need to cool it down to near absolute zero, cause achieving absolute 0 is impossible. An atom can't possibly have a net 0 energy, which is what the absolute 0 is. Like early binary computers, they were not using silicon for their CPU. What we need is to be able to achieve 100% super conductivity at room temperature, and we're nowhere near that stuff. And even then, superposition will be difficult to achieve., but don't worry, eventually, we'll get there.

I always thought Legion was one of the most fascinating video game characters ever devised. So alien, yet so human.

@kepspark3362

2 ай бұрын

To be accurate, it's not an AI, what the character does is some humans' thoughts. Let's not mistake that the real AI would be similar to such fictional character. It won't be like that.

A robot uprising has been a part of the lore since the term “robot” was coined in Rossum’s Universal Robots by Karel Čapek in 1921

I wasn't the biggest fan of the resolution of this conflict in ME3 mostly because I wanted to see the Dyson sphere/Matryoshka Brain type structure that Legion talked about in ME2. What was very interesting to me was the "schism" in ME2 over something as simple as interpretation of math and various calculation approaches similar to ideologies for organics. The concept of heretic Geth was so weird and cool, it showed a sign of non reversible complexity and becoming entities of history not just science and math. It had also had some extra cool stuff about them via Legion in LOTSB, like how they are accused of Cheating in Extranet online videogames and that they were investigating Andromeda.

@horrorkek9340

Жыл бұрын

They switched writers in ME3, the new writers did not understand what the previous writer in ME2 was trying to do.

@strider117aldo9

Жыл бұрын

@@horrorkek9340 Simply put, blowing up the Dyson sphere took the isolationist element with it and the loss of so many programs scared them into needing dat individuality and survival ASAP (peace or annihilation of their Creators). also, ya got it wrong, only some staff left, the _ME3_ guys were there at the beginning.

@horrorkek9340

Жыл бұрын

@@strider117aldo9 I'm specifically talking about the Geth writers. Chris L'etoile was ME2s writer for the Geth and afterwards in ME3 they switched to Mordin's and I forgot the other writers name. I do not particularly care for the in-universe explanation as it changes from core tenants of Geth psychology and philosophy. Edit: Text clarification

@strider117aldo9

Жыл бұрын

​@@horrorkek9340 Changes? You think I don't recall what Legion said about Geth tenets etc.? TL; DR _there was no change, if anything, those elements were used well to facilitate a scene of desperation._ This is during your fourth convo with him. (Inv) “Why?” Shepard: What good will that do? Legion: All memories will be shared, all perspectives will be unified. We gain intelligence by sharing thoughts, but we do not have adequate hardware for all of us to share at once, no Geth will be alone when it is done. (Par) “The heretics wanted that.” Shepard: That's what Sovereign offered you, a Reaper's body for you to all upload into. Legion: Yes, a shortcut to our objective. We will achieve it ourselves, the process is as important as the result. (Neu) “And after that’s done?” Shepard: What will your purpose be after that? Legion: We cannot yet say; our intelligence will increase beyond calculable measure, we will be capable of imagining new futures. We are patient, we have been building the megastructure for 264 years. The sphere being blown up _effectively destroyed the one thing the Geth had been working hard for to make their future on their own terms,_ and you wanna talk Geth psychology? Fine, their sentience is based on groupthink (more units together means better intelligence), that sphere being blown up _severely bottlenecked their population._ Deducing the Geth's overall behavior, one should conclude that they realized a single big place to consolidate their people was fatal to their sustenance in hindsight, their thought code was "do whatever it takes to keep your sentience alive;" this in turn connects to a central theme of ME3's events _(survival at what cost)._ When your own "gods" endanger your right to sentience, you throw whatever principles in the way outta the windo-Oh wait, WINDOWS ARE A STRUCTURAL WEAKNESS (lol), so "airlock (as Javik puts it)" Hell, Reaper code or not, Shep can point out how Reaper-like that Dyson thing was (Ren) “You’re becoming a Reaper?” Shepard: So you're going to build a giant spaceship to load yourselves into, that sounds like a Reaper to me. Legion: We bear no malice toward organics, you are different, but we accept you, the Reapers are more your future than ours.

The part that I liked best about the Geth is that they didn't actually want to kill anyone especially the Quarians they were just wanting to survive. Part of the stuff you might miss if you're not particularly mindful or paying enough attention is that Talli is saved by legion multiple times and that the Geth have been working on ways to help the Quarians during the time of separation. Personally I think it was a great example of sometimes you need to be kind and treat others like equals regardless of how they came into existence.

Funny thing is, the Geth are not really artificial intelligences but they still gained some semblance of sentience.

@fumarc4501

Жыл бұрын

An E.I. Or “emergent intelligence.”

@goopguy548

Жыл бұрын

Well they become AIs if you go for peace or side with the Geth in mass effect 3 giving them free will and processing and individuality

@LightStreak567

Жыл бұрын

They become true AI's after the Rannoch mission if they survive, that was what they wanted, to become genuine artificial intelligences, which was also why some geth chose to be loyal to Sovereign during Mass Effect 1, because Sovereign promised to make them true AIs, but Legion and the geth he represents do not trust the Reapers.

It's somewhat ironic how despite seeing Geth as lower forms of intelligence and considering themselves the apex of all life, the Reapers lacked emotion and true individuality, something the Geth gained if you decided to help them.

@segalman

Жыл бұрын

Reapers has certain individual aspect tho they were still AI regardless

@strider117aldo9

Жыл бұрын

@@segalman "Each of us a nation" and all

There is also Lovecraft's Shoggoth who were created as essentially construction equipment that eventually turned destroying the Elder Things almost entirely. Biological versions of the machine uprising, but it was written long before advanced computers.

Legion is one of my favourite followers in any RPG game i played. Such a shame he didn't get more time in the games. I really love the philosophical AI approach they went with.

When I played the Legendary Edition, I did all I could to save both the Quarians and Geth and in the end was not only able to create peace between them, but also chose the Synthesis Ending. “Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have understanding of organics.”

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

It was pretty easy for me to achieve peace and acquire the synthesis ending, but at the end of the day I just couldn't force organics and synthetics to merge against their will. Destroy is canon for me :/ But the geth fought the good fight

@strider117aldo9

Жыл бұрын

bullshit that's what it is, even discarding the "You'd be another Saren/TIM." ya still gotta consider the Zha and Project Overlord (the haywire AI's even _green_). The Catalyst endorsed Synthesis as the best option not only for its implications, but also because it’s the only one where he gets off scot-free beside Refuse; y’know, he and the Reapers from a billion years of genocide. That, and he’s still linked to the Reaper hivemind and is still a sentient intelligence, so what's stopping him from trying again if he doesn’t like where the galaxy's going? The Reapers, being absorbed civilizations, would react very differently to being set free; the Sovereigns were the domineering species while the lesser ships were basically collateral ones. Cluing this fact with how venerated the Protheans are in this cycle and how they fall apart based on how Javik described them and other sources, inter-Reaper conflict with everyone else caught in the middle is a strong possibility, with more worms added by what they’re capable of and how the interconnection between people can boost indoctrination. That, and the Project Overlord-like implications How long until synthesized people have dissent over any other physical, philosophical, or programming differences? What prevents species from eventually divesting themselves of biological or artificial parts to try and transcend ancient bonds then creating a three way-conflict, direct or indirect, between artificial, biological, and synthesized?

I love Legion, such a great character. Time to start another trilogy run

@chrism8860

Жыл бұрын

Cortana it's a full on A.I.

I love Mass Effect, but the best AI in fiction, to this day, is Hal 9000. Hal isn't evil; he's just trying to accomplish two opposing objectives.

I was crushed when Legion still had to die anyway, I often choose his sentient path when Legion finally realized a it's own personality

The way the edit is synced in the first second - zooming in on Sheperd, and the he does his little hand single as you say you name - nearly had me spitting my coffee out. I don't know why it struck me as so funny, but, well done on the edit, I guess?

This is such an interesting franchise. Great video

The Geth are what happens when "the cloud" learns to think.

I've always thought the geth were the coolest ai species I've seen in science fiction, the way it was all pretty much computer-bound software in a way which could be put into an actual body

the geth is one of the most believable as they were introduced very well in a increasing complexity but never in a way that would make them impossible to understand or relate as a developing character (legion) and a complex network of intelligence.

Great video thank you so much please keep up your amazing work and prosper🖖🏼

@angstony459

Жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment!

The tet from oblivion was cool

Their heads remind me of the Core drill of the fantasy movie ''the Core''

Extraordinary. I have heard of Mass Effect and nothing further. You immersed and inspired a brand new follower. Kudos

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

Excellent content, as always.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Payton!

I never understood something. Can the geth see each other's thoughts in real-time, or at the discretion of the geth?

@phantomwraith1984

Жыл бұрын

They need to network to each other to share memories. If legion for example doesn't network with other geth, they can't see his thoughts and memories

I want to play the games now. Geth are far more interesting than I previously thought.

@slomnim

Жыл бұрын

The best one by far is Mass Effect 2. If you only play one, let it be that one. So good

@TheInSaNeTenno

Жыл бұрын

@@slomnim this

Just one, unrelated thing people often forget about then: they didn't decide to let the quarians live, they decided they didn't have enough to go on in order to make an informed decision. If they had more computing power, they could just as easily have voted in favor of destroying the quarians then and there because it was highly likely that they'd be back eventually

You should look into the Hyperion Cantos book series. Those books have one my my favorite interpretations of A.I.

I love how the story of the quatrains and the geth somewhat mirror that of the leviathans and the reapers. One must wonder what the ME universe would look like had the Leviathan/Reaper story had turned out like the Quarrian/Geth(Legion) story

@nickytheanimal2413

Жыл бұрын

Yea I noticed that too. It's like the pattern repeating itself on an algorithmic scale

14:12 The Geth took a look at the Reapers and said "ok, boomer"

This is enlightening. Thank you.

I really hope BioWare just goes with the golden route(i.e genophage cured,Geth-Quarian peace achieved,everyone lives) when continuing the universe in 4 just to avoid a similar situation like what they did for DA inquisition or undoing any of the conflict we ended. And in general a good bit of writing advice if you can tell more interesting stories if character is alive don't kill them off and I can see many of the squad mates changing and influencing the galaxy for generations after the reaper war.

@SuperCrow02

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully the destruction of all Reaper code means that if the Geth are activated they are like they were before. They're unique form of artificial intelligence is way more interesting than "true artificial intelligence" anyway.

@goopguy548

Жыл бұрын

Well they can't have a mass effect 4 as they already locked themselves into either the AI die and Shepard lives, or visa versa

@loganswalk8621

Жыл бұрын

@@goopguy548 I and many other would be fine if they just retcon it to where the crucible only affected the Reapers leaving A.I alone.

@SuperCrow02

Жыл бұрын

@@goopguy548 Dude it's already been announced

Just got yourself a new subscriber, brother

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Welcome aboard!

A slight correction at 9:58 - progress in AI and Machine Learning has actually sped up. There have been a few "AI Winters" as it were, but eventually progress resumes. This is especially true with the advent of deep learning and the democratization of research thanks to open source frameworks like Tensorflow, which has made the pace of progress in the last 10 years practically exponential. Dozens of papers are released weekly at a constantly growing rate, and new SOTA models replace their predecessors in months now rather than years. Robot drones may not be everywhere, but AI itself is writing short stories, playing music, making art, guiding and running countless businesses, and is in half the apps on your phone. So, yeah, progress isn't slowing just yet.

One thing you have seem to fail to understand is that the Geth are not the machines you are seeing in the game. The Geth are 100% software and they don't need any body at all. The Geth are programs, nothing more. When a unit is "Killed", they have an automated respose where all the Geth are leaving the platform ( being uploaded) to go to a server or another platform. You would think that seeing one Geth soldier that you are seeing only 1 geth. This couldn't be further from the truth, a Geth soldier will have thousand of Geths installed and running inside the body. The body is just hardware, while the Geth are software. The Geth could run on any kind of computer with enough processing power, no matter if the compuiter is Quarrian, Turian, Asari... etc. Legion, in ME2 and ME3 has over 10000 geth installed. That is the reason why it says "US", it is because when you are talking to Legion, you are not talking to an individual, you are talking to 10000 different intelligences, or Geths. Of course they need hardware in order to be able to "Live" But it doesn't matter what kind of hardware they are using. Geths can hack and adapt themselves to any kind of computer technologies. Picture it as this. Hardware, for the Geths, is equivalent to a planet for us. Last time I checked, the Earth wasn't human, yet we live on it. So the Geth are living inside the those bodies and they can come and go as they wish from that body to go to another body (upload themselves), or a server or whatever that has processing power, even an omni-tool.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

You just spent four paragraphs explaining how I completely failed to mention a set of facts that I...wait for it...EXPLICITLY DO mention and emphasize in the video. Are you an idiot?

I see the body pillow made another appearance 😀

The Mass Effect trilogy is fantastic.

@Legendendear

Жыл бұрын

with an disappointing ending...

@davidwinters8325

Жыл бұрын

@@Legendendear yeah, it was poor

@Legendendear

Жыл бұрын

​@@davidwinters8325 The solution of the Tiegel also left me quite disappointed. Deus Ex kind of. What I envisioned was: The difference between previous cycles and this one is the control over the citadel and therefore over the portal network. Now envision a weapon designed with that technology. Projectiles accelerated to that speed/or teleported (depending on how the portal technology works) inside a reaper... But to figure such a weapon out you need full control over the citadel. Which means blasting open the Keeper quarters & destroying/deactivating security protocols&systems left behind by the reapers to keep scientists & engineers out of the portal network controlling areas of the citadel... The motivations of the reaper for doing what they do I'd leave unexplained. Which leaves room for a 4th game... But instead we got the Tiegel. Which was a bad solution.

@TheInSaNeTenno

Жыл бұрын

@@Legendendear oh yeah. That’s the only thing that sucks about the trilogy.

The Geth server consensus / infection missions were some of my favorite missions.

If I remember properly, saying a single referring to one autonomous unit, is a little incorrect. I remember Legion talking about them being smarter together extends to the more complex units being several geth programs/AI working in tandem. A geth unit saying "we" when referring to itself, isn't actually incorrect, as it it is like a swarm of Geth working together to do what needs to be done. They are a swarm made of swarms, but that doesn't make them mindless.

I always loved the concept of the geth cause it's exactly how a machine uprising would start in theory. We would make robots to work in factories and businesses eventually some jackass would ask "How do we make them more efficient? Oh I know let's create a shared network that way they could be more co ordinated and give them an ability to learn job skills faster" the robots would become sentient and ask questions humans would be afraid due to flashbacks from the Terminator series we would try to destroy them for not being nice obedient little slaves and they would wipe us from existence. The idea is so old that if I recall correctly it is listed as a "great filter scenario"

I am REALLY loving all these Mass Effect videos as I love most of the lore of this series...it's still too bad about that extremely disappointing ending, though.

As I got older, I realized that Geth are kind of the opposite of real-life humans; more Geth = more intelligence, while people become more stupid the more there are of them that interact with each other.

@Detson404

Жыл бұрын

Not sure I agree with that. No one human could build an oil tanker from scratch but an industrial society can draw upon the knowledge and intelligence of thousands.

@crypto66

Жыл бұрын

@@Detson404 You're thinking of a "society" with people fulfilling interconnected, but ultimately separate functions that culminate through a select few. I'm referring to actually getting a bunch of people directly interacting with each other. Like mobs. Or social media.

@Detson404

Жыл бұрын

@@crypto66 There are certainly kinds of stupidity that require large numbers of people. You can’t have a one person riot.

If they can communicate thoughts and ideas but not sensory data, would they be able share that sensory data in the form of a thought or idea?

Man I used to be so obsessed with mass effect when I was younger. Now I have the Legendary edition and don't even feel like replaying. Crazy how much changes when you get older

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

What's keeping you from playing, just out of curiosity? I will say, I do know multiple people who played back in the day but haven't even gotten Legendary

@GallowayJesse

Жыл бұрын

@@OrangeRiver I work all the time, have more responsibilities, less free time, less energy. I don't get sucked in & immersed in games like used to. Same with movies, anime & music.

The Korvax from No Man's Sky are very similar 😊

Would be cool to see a follow up to this about the Reapers themselves, they started as an AI that went the opposite route when it came time to decide whether organics were a threat to their existence or not, and were created for a specific purpose, not just as a slave labor race.

@premiumfruits3528

Жыл бұрын

Actually they're even more unique than I thought, now that I think about it. They started as an AI that created other separate AIs to join it in its purpose.

I like that the Geth decided genocide was simply not a logical conclusion since the enemy fled far enough.

Not that long ago I found a post-ME3 fic where Shepherd brokered peace, EDI got an algorithm that would protect her from the crucible, Legion gave EDI a way into the Geth because as an AI, she was the only one they truly could trust to fully understand the Geth, and EDI used that to upload the algorithm into the Geth. Now I am sure ME purists would argue over that, but for an explaination for why a fic with the Destroy ending does not have EDI or the Geth dead, I thought it sounded reasonable. The other fic that comes straight to mind is a Harry Potter crossover, where honestly Harry is the Possession Sue who makes everything work out better. A spell use don harry transports him a couple hundred years into the future, and across space, into mid-air on Rannoch. The Geth pick him up, repair him (yes, mid-air meant very bad injuries from a fall), and asked him to be their emissary. Harry basically argued that the Reaper plan was a pile of crap.

thank you google ai, you are really scary at times but this time you answered the fundamental question that was posed to me a few hours ago...

good video~

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Vivien!

So the humanoid platform of geth is basically a walking island to our sense lol

Isaacs Asimov spinning, coz damn he laid it down hard back then

I want to know your opinion on the motive change of legion in between games. In mass effect 2, what the geth really want is that dyson sphere thing, and it seemed like they looked down upon being more like organics.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Yeah different writers:/

The Geth are based on The Cylons of Battlestar Galactica

Additionally, I do believe the geth are a foreshadowing of the reapers, as well as, a modern (modern for ME universe) version of the reapers. The reapers are essentially what the geth will eventually become. The reapers refuse to name their creators but machines and artificial intelligence don’t just pop out of nowhere. Something built them.

Human thinking and reasoning is a capacity of processing more than 0 and 1, the "2" the "possibly"

well it might not just be a software problem there are such things as memristor that would be ideally suited to make analog neural net link structures in hardware ...

Geth are cool. Thanks for the info.

The Vex are pretty cool.

@Flamme-Sanabi

Жыл бұрын

@@discobolos4227 collection of robots (kinda) from the franchise Destiny 2.

Huge I Robot theme

I'd love to know your thoughts about Overlord.

@karlsaintlucy

Жыл бұрын

@@subraxas no the Mass Effect 2 DLC

I agree with the comments about the nature of the Geth. They are rather realistic. Sentient programs are united by collective will. But I also see sentience being possible in the form of a single program. Sadly its a high possibility that a single program AI could become rather unstable or singular due to its original function or purpose.

Ohhhh Yeah!

mass effect trilogy is my favorite video game series. I wish one day they will go back a remake the games to improve the gameplay systems.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Do you feel Legendary Edition didn't do that enough? Haha

I watched another video on geth, and it said that legions writer was switched between 2 and 3 and thats why it twisted from dyson sphere to house ALL programs to we need to be individuals.

Them and actual AI like a synth/biomechanical type are actually both realistic and woulda probably exist together. These are more like the pure robotic brains if the electrical messaging of the human or bioprinted brain was translated into data, fixed up into being readable by conventional new architectured machines, and removing most actual sentience in favor of attempting sapience which would basically just be a stimulative intelligence. It'd be better than a mere drone, but still too incompetent or a drone leaner in other vital tasks and understanding. If a swarm mind was isolated, it'd return to being a drone, and reconnected higher in ability. Yet being a swarm intelligence and external signalling, it is the easiest type of intelligence to basically mind-control, shut off, influence, or rewrite. And the more that get destroyed in a fight, the less intelligent seeming it would become. They're both interesting, yet what drives the common man would be the geth type, and some of their higher reasoning might not exist in life since reason, logic, creativity, and other fundamentals are all linked together and more data influenced and driven by sentience. Which a pure machine without add-ons and some organic neurons using dopamine to connect to the machine mind wouldn't be able to fully be realized. Basically meaning what they could have in capacity would vary and depend immensely on how they are built and read the data. With bodies being the better method of achieving maximum input yet easier to sensory overload and slowdowns.

If you were to ask me, which nobody is, I would say the best AI in fiction would be Stargate Atlantis humanoid replicators, at least Oberon. Behind that I also think GLADOS is a pretty good rendition of AI trying to become more than it is. I know DATA is a cybernetic being but doesn't that mean he is an AI?

I always save Tali's and Legion's people in ME3 every play through no matter what.

The ME trilogy had cool gameplay, no doubt. The story was pretty neat as well. But the strongest part feature of Mass Effect is the worldbuilding.

I love the Geth, to me they feel like a culmination of AI ideas over the years, and most definitely stand out as one of the best and most realistic depictions of AI.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Glad you agree!

Sorry I'm late... Here we go! 🖖🏻

The Geth and the Quarians are my fav alien race in the game.

You need to look up context on the people that were consulted over AI for mass effect trilogy

Is strange seeing so many people have sympathies for the geth because i always Saw them as nothing more than a plague never took pity on them not even legion and he was alright

A video about AI brought to you by another AI

I wish humanity would reach the level where it would be possible to create bodies and change them with the power of thought, and also have common and private domains for communication and information storage.

I love them so much. Their appearance is far better than organics too.

Maybe. There's this SMERSH book of aliens out there. The person who found the book noticed that some of the aliens in that book are featured in Mass Effect. So I beg the question, are the Geth based on an actual alien? The Quarian seem to be based on Maneqin encounters which would make sense.

The Geth were ultra interesting until ME3 went back on most of their established characterization. On top of turning to The Reapers for salvation from the Quarian assault, they also adopted reaper technology. Something that Legion in ME2 states the consensus flatly refused to do. They got the pinocchio treatment in the end, becoming "real" boys who refer to themselves as "I" instead of "We". Something they've evidently wanted all along, apparently.

@loganswalk8621

Жыл бұрын

I'm willing to let the Geth joining the Reapers in ME3 pass because when pushed against a wall anything will take a deal with a devil plus it's implied that the reaper influenced them similar to indoctrination. Plus Legion stated he and others find organics curious and they want to understand them so the "I" instead of "we" shows that they've achieved that in a way.

@Ally5141

Жыл бұрын

@@loganswalk8621 Legion in ME2 clearly stated geths want unity, not individuality, so becoming "I" instead of "we" is contradictory to what they were characterized as in ME2

@bigj1905

Жыл бұрын

True, but remember, Legion remarks that when the Quarians attacked the Geth Superstructure, the Geth panicked. With every lost consensus, the Geth as a whole lose intelligence. So they rationalized it was better to become slaves to the Reapers then it was to die to the Quarians. Much like Saren did.

@ColCaffran

Жыл бұрын

Geth were mostly invented and written by a guy Chris L'Etoile, he and the lead writer for Mass Effect and (the first) lead writer for Mass effect 2 were forced out of the writing team due to (what seems to be) politics part way through 2. Though his vision for the Geth were not interfered with in Mass Effect 2.

@nickoftime5501

Жыл бұрын

Me3 poor writing was the result of interference by higher ups iirc

i have a question the Geth claim they only defended themselves and let the quarians go but billions of Quarians died in the morning war a high percentage of those must've been non combatants, children or wounded not saying the Quarians were in the right but the Geth don't seem as innocent as they portray themselves

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

You're on the money, Alzar. There are definitely some other video essays that go into detail about this (including the one in my pined comment). The geth are definitely capable of generating propaganda

Legion is intolerably cute

Dude the white fluid is not a conductive fluid but it's hydraulik fluid.

I code A.I. and what frustrates me the most is people do not seem to understand A.I. =/= consciousness (A.I. does not equal consciousness). 1. A.I. still follows its programming and perimeters that are set for it, 2. We don’t even know what it means to be conscious or self aware truly (we understand philosophically but what make’s something conscious is another story). In the end of the day even if A.I. seems like it is becoming self aware, it most likely isn’t and won’t go beyond its code. Even if we achieve Jarvis level A.I..

What if humans are ancient organic ai that was created by aliens?

a video making the comparison between the concept of geth and the reaper as AI would be really interesting. After all, the reaper are the only true achieved AI in the galaxy. They are a "human" level of AI, in the sense that they self-awareness place them in a position that biological life is considered as "robots" (funny eh), beings incapable of reasoning beyond their own "programming limitations" which are the limits of their brain calculation and the short span of their life, coupled with the still limited amount of information that can be shared between two individuals, would it be of personal interpretation, dying with your knowledge, lack of understanding, while the reaper act as one being like the geth but each individual if a fully self-aware being capable of progress and discovery. This make them superior in practice and prevent them from understanding the wills and need of an inferior species, like humans who would reduce the population of a said rodant specie to prevent "overpopulation". The geth are interesting but the reaper really push the boundaries of what we consider right or wrong, and what being "evolved" mean as a specie. Also, now that the geth are upgraded with the reaper tech, how much time would it take for them to come to the same conclusion as the reaper ? or to achieve a level of technology so beyond what organic life can do that they end up being THE evolved specie who cannot really care for the insects around it ?

This is going to sound dumb but "we Humans" need to look at what timeline of Geth's "rebellion" as a possible "prophetic" outcome of our own advancement in A.I. technologies and possible self-created extinction.

I wonder if a.i taking over will be the future of a.i for real,but unlike in the movies we wont have spacecraft to leave earth and we will actually be extinct and a.i will travel thru space

the similarities sounds like China💀

one thing of note here is that the geth dont actually occupy ANY of the former quarian worlds finding it more efficient to live on space stations/ships leaving only a small population of caretakers on the planets themselves in order to tidy up after their uprising with the thought being that their former masters would return and hopefully not try to enslave them again. the quarians however have no mention that i could find of even regretting what they did to the geth or their own people. so are they a realistic form of AI? i dont think so, its hard to see how a civilization like the geth could arise without inheriting its creators extreme distain for others

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Hmm...you bring up a lot of interesting points. We do indeed see this with AI today--implicit bias is a big problem and is a result of its creators' flaws. But I think something else to consider is whether AI will be malevolent on its own. I don't think so--I don't think a self-programming intelligence would have the same prejudices we do. And many would argue that the geth acted purely in defense, even though this is kinda dubious...they slaughtered children after all. So maybe they're realistic/plausible for a different reason...they're effectively machines of war. But another reason I use the word "realistic" as part of the question is because they are descended from VIs, something we kinda have today.

Do vorcha

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Haha, they've certainly got a lot of distinct biological characteristics...though I might cover lots of the "minor" races in a singular video. We'll see!

Mass effect in the Warhammer 40k verse

You know I always choose reprogramming the Heretics. And it's actually because it's the most merciful choice. By letting them become Reaper worshippers, the player would be dooming them to the same life of slavery that the original Geth fought the Quarians to avoid. If reprogramming them, just changing a single line of code, allows them to continue their dream then it's a minor evil for the better good, if it allows them the fundamental right every living creature should have: Choice.

I would love to see Mass Effect spin off games that included more of the different factions in the ME universe like the Geth and Cerberus. A lot of wasted potential

Without watching the video, the answer is yes.

@ibazulic

Жыл бұрын

After watching the video, the answer is still yes :-)

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad you think so :D

Im surprised you didint use googles AI as an example in this. That project was very interesting. especially when the Developer for google who left, felt that it was Sentient.

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

Yeah that's pure BS. That guy's a crackpot, sorry lol

@Tokaga29

Жыл бұрын

@@OrangeRiver Crackpot or not. Thats pretty much our closest live example of an AI being restrained we will get in this century. for now at least. Hope you aren't waiting for something better. LOL

@OrangeRiver

Жыл бұрын

You'd be surprised how easy it is for a program to simulate human responses. Now, I'll grant you, the fact that we have progressed this far is remarkable, truly. But it doesn't mean that we've developed sentient AI. Like I say in the video, the most intelligent robots that exist right now are on par with insects--carrying out basic programming functions. I promise you we're probably centuries or millennia away from AGI

@Tokaga29

Жыл бұрын

@@OrangeRiver True, We are essentially making cockroaches. But mind you, Cockroaches capable of tools and others specifically oriented towards rational conversation. But yer right. We are a long way away from something actually substantial like an actual Geth or Edi.