"Someone has attempted to lower your shields, if this was you, ignore this message..."

@azean84

2 ай бұрын

Damn, now I have to change the LCARS login to 'SpacePassword_1' I'm sure that will be secure 😅

@TheFreelancer131

2 ай бұрын

Hah, the level of accuracy here is on point

@gorillazzillathemeh5897

2 ай бұрын

That's where ship board virtual intelligences needed to be assigned. To counter ECM.

@timetraveller6643

2 ай бұрын

@@gorillazzillathemeh5897- "Please check all the boxes that have Klingons"

@pathevermore3683

2 ай бұрын

@@gorillazzillathemeh5897emergency cock-blocker holograms?

Someone told me It's safe as long as it's not the same combination as your luggage.

@waldoman8895

2 ай бұрын

Damb, id better change it. I'll reverse it, theyl never figure it out !.

@BennyLlama39

2 ай бұрын

By chance, would the luggage combination be 12345? 😀

@josephmassaro

2 ай бұрын

@@BennyLlama39Frack!

@DrAnarchy69

2 ай бұрын

@@BennyLlama39space balls reference detected and appreciated

@yodaslovetoy

2 ай бұрын

​@BennyLlama39 who the hell told you that?!

Other things to consider: - In TWOK, Kirk is Chief of Starfleet Operations and Spock is a senior instructor at Starfleet Academy. Both would therefore have command codes following the prefix code that could be responsible for the actual transfer of function to their remote location; Kirk because his position would allow him to commandeer any ship for a mission, Spock because he would need to override any starship function for instructional purposes. - The role of computers in society wasn’t as prevalent in 1982 as it is now, and consequently everyone’s knowledge of information security, especially at the public consumer level, would be pretty rudimentary (ATMs were just becoming mainstream at this time, for example). So screenwriter’s understanding of automated security would of course be pretty basic.

@DoctorX17

2 ай бұрын

Cybersecurity at that point wasn't so much a _thing_ as much as it is now, too, so even if the screenwriter were a 1980s expert in computer-based security and encryption, it probably would be child's play compared to modern encryption and security. And as your first point stated, Kirk and Spock probably would have extra access based on their ranks, so probably they also had to use command codes to USE the prefix code. Also, as stated in the video, maybe there's some more automated part that reduces what you need to directly input when using a Starfleet ship [some more advanced cryptographic system only found on Starfleet ships and uses the entered 5-digit code as a basis to actually generate a prefix code]

“If you’ve nothing to hide you shouldn’t have a problem giving me your prefix code”

Another example for prefix codes being used is the USS Lantree when Picard took control of the cameras on the bridge of the Lantree and turn on the warning not to board due to quarantine

@hanshawks5088

2 ай бұрын

Did they have COVID 😂😂😂

@Krahazik

2 ай бұрын

@@hanshawks5088 The ship had worse resulting in the death of the entire crew.

Spock specifically said that the system was designed "to prevent an enemy from doing what we're attempting".

@jimskywaker4345

2 ай бұрын

So it probably needs to come from a ship identifiable as belonging to starfleet.

@DefiantSix

Ай бұрын

​@@jimskywaker4345: Actually, the condition that must be met is that the prefix code needs to come from an ADMIRAL's flagship, specifically. Not just ANY starfleet ship.

I always thought about aviation when watching Wrath of Khan. Nowadays cockpits of commercial airplanes are secured with codes. If entered correctly, the pilots in the cockpit are informed, take a look at cameras to look if it's safe to open, and then actively unlock the door. However in emergencies (pilots incapaccitation or similar) the crew have emergency access codes, that will open the doors without the pilots having to unlock the door. If however the pilots inside are alright and fear that an intruder wants to abuse this emergency code to gain access, they have 30 seconds to block off that attempt, rejecting any further attempts to open for a few minutes. I assumed that a similar thing happened with the USS Reliant: Kirk sent out this access code and Khan's crew didn't notice or weren't able to stop the access attempt, because they didn't know the right countermeasure.

@TheBigExclusive

2 ай бұрын

Khan's crew probably didn't even know such a thing was possible. The old Enterprise schematics never had such a feature. It goes to show that experience will always trump talent.

@bluedotdinosaur

2 ай бұрын

Don't forget that the prefix codes were also not just sent by surprise - but as part of a ploy to make Khan expect to receive a transmission. They banked on Khan not being aware prefix codes existed. Therefore, Khan would not assume any information seen coming from Enterprise could pose any sort of threat. We might imagine Khan's crew quite literally stared at the prefix code being duplicated across their consoles - and could only assume it was, for instance, the serial number of the file Kirk was supposed send with the Genesis data.

@mammutMK2

2 ай бұрын

And even that security backup access didn't helped, when one pilot went crazy and locked out the second pilot... crashing the plane into a mountain :-( . At Blue Dot...that is correct,he got Kahn off guard...Kirk was not sure if it would work or if Kahn changed the code. Suddenly shields go down and they are like stunned "well then turn them back on" then figuring out "that was the moment they knew he f... Up

@themount6549

2 ай бұрын

@@mammutMK2 It sadly can't be prevented, at least not through technology.

@NATIK001

2 ай бұрын

@@mammutMK2 No amount of security can prevent a privileged person from doing harm. You literally cannot prevent anyone who should normally be in control from also being in control when they go rogue, all you can do is to try and vet your people beforehand.

One thing we must remember is that there is a lot of invisible security on starships. The ship's computer knows who people are, where they are, and who is speaking. Even then, certain functions like self-destruct require an additional code because, you know - let's not blow the ship up by saying the wrong phrase in casual conversation. But we should assume that very generally, a person doesn't always have to stop and manually execute several steps of authenticating. This kind of constant biometric tracking might in fact make a starship incredibly secure. Security protocols could be keeping track of crew members and always comparing their data against trends, essentially re-authenticating them on a moment by moment basis.

@mammutMK2

2 ай бұрын

Lol... would be really bad. Casually saying "it's not like we want to activate self destruction with a one minute timer" and the computer starts with "self destruction activated 60seconds"... everyone panics and the captain "not again, computer, cancel self destruction"...then the reply "this is not possible daddy"

@Cyberguy42

2 ай бұрын

You'd think it would be secure, yet both Wesley Crusher and Data are able to take control of the Enterprise simply by imitating Picard's voice (electronically)

@mammutMK2

2 ай бұрын

@@Cyberguy42 and it happened often enough to be a massive threat...but its already standard getting a ship stolen

@Toramt

2 ай бұрын

>The ship's computer knows who people are, where they are, And yet they never implemented the obvious 'if someone ceases to be on the ship w/o leaving via any logged mechanism, tell someone about that'.

“Number one, where is my 2FA app on this PADD? I can’t unlock the photon torpedo launch codes!”

@GraceSerenityK

2 ай бұрын

The PADD has a biometric scanner already

@narniaphuket

2 ай бұрын

@@GraceSerenityK that blew up due to being hit with photon torpedoes

@GraceSerenityK

2 ай бұрын

@@narniaphuket that seems like overkill for what is a 24th century smartphone! Like a hand phaser or a rock would be enough (;

You'd think Starfleet would have established protocols for being hacked and the Borg just in general, like they have the Omega Protocol.

@DrAnarchy69

2 ай бұрын

Yeah but then the writers would have to come up with a more creative way of disabling the hero ship

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

In _Picard_ season 3 that's understandable, as Starfleet had been compromised at the highest levels, who then pushed through the whole "link all the ships together" thing. Geordi even said he'd protested that several times, but was ignored.

@BNuts

2 ай бұрын

@@ManabiLT Lots of smart captains wouldn't let that pass on their ships. Nog for one. Shaw probably, too. But judging by his plan for taking the _Titan-A_ , Riker might've let it go. So much for 'learning from the best,' right?

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

@@BNuts I don't think they were given a choice, or Shaw would have disabled it on the Titan-A after it became clear that Starfleet had been compromised. To be fair to Riker, he's not an engineering type like Shaw and Geordi. It might not have occurred to him how it could be abused. I'm sure they replaced all the captains that challenged it with changelings as well.

This is a code where someone already has fully detailed schematics and detailed knowledge of federation subsystems. A good example in the launch codes on ICBMs on American missiles. These are codes entered by launch officers before the missiles start World War III. For many years this code was simply set to "0000" in most missile silos. As a speed bumb to slow down rash operations it is a useful plot device in a neat story.

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

Definitely! The prefix code itself isn't what makes that scene great in _The Wrath of Khan,_ it's everything that's happening around its use that does it. The way Kirk explains to Saavik that she needs to understand why things work the way they do before she can understand what they're about to do and the way the Augments react when the shields go down and they can't re-raise them are the what makes that whole sequence so awesome to watch.

@Plaprad

2 ай бұрын

Close. A buddy of mine was a Launch Officer in his career and we discussed it. The actual codes are far more complex to launch a missile with many codes being used by many people. The "00000" code was just a lazy President assigning a horrible code to his authorization that could have killed millions.

@GlanderBrondurg

2 ай бұрын

@@Plaprad There are authentication codes, keys, physical access to the silo bunker, and a whole lot more security that the final launch codes are mostly redundant. I heard a tour guide for the Minuteman missile silo currently operated by the National Parks Service as an historic monument and available for guided tours in a configuration similar to how they looked at the end of the Cold War (1980s/1990s). This is in North Dakota for those who are interested. They gave a slightly different story and did not blame the NCA, but the general details were the same.

Spock is lucky he didn't have to solve a Captcha when sending the prefix code. "Prove that I'm Human? I find that request... insulting."

@Prf_X

2 ай бұрын

In ST it read "Prove you are Humanoid"

@web4639

Ай бұрын

"Select all images with a shuttlecraft"

The prefix code is probably like a 2FA code which is used on the sending Federation ships computer to confirm you are authorised to send the override command. Once accepted what is sent would include a digital signature which in the Reliants case the Enterprise sent.

@criticality2056

Ай бұрын

Then why the concern of enemy ships using the same mechanism, save for the prefix code?

To compare with real world examples, Starfleet Prefix codes are kinda like admin accounts on Windows computers with full-access, while command codes are user accounts with admin-like privileges.

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

For those familiar with the various *nix systems the prefix codes are the root account, while command codes allow the user to use root-level privileges via sudo, so the command codes are a password for sudo. The windows equivalent is more like the prefix code being an admin account, but a command code is like a non-admin user entering an admin account password to do a single action.

@mammutMK2

2 ай бұрын

For example a user can be signed in and use an admin code to access the system would still be blocked, as the system detects it's not the actual adm providing the code. When the adm signed in and uses the code he can access the system. In case of Kirk, ha was identified as Kirk and ship enterprise sending the code to the reliant... reliant detects "enterprise request access, send from captain in command conformed Kirk, code 12345... request lowering shield and rin shield control diagnostic" ... If he would send the code from a other ship, the access could fail...and even of he provided the code to that captain it may still fail if it is specifically connected with ship and captain. So the Voyager could have 24680 to access the reliant computer send from Janeway. That would make it rather secure as even would the code they would need to mask the Signal as it would have been send from that specific ship from that captain

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

@@mammutMK2 It's also possible that it requires a higher rank then captain to use. Kirk was an admiral when he used Reliant's prefix code against Khan. If so, it could also be that lower level officers (probably not going below the captain & first officer) can use prefix codes in emergency situations. Starfleet's computers are so advanced that things like that would be trivial to implement with them.

@jtjames79

2 ай бұрын

This sort of thing is exactly what blockchains are for.

They mentioned the codes can be changed in the event they think it’s needed. This would likely be a decision made by the captain. So it would work in the event of a mutiny or stolen ship maybe not in the event of a captain going rogue but I’m assuming they would have other contingencies for that

@enisra_bowman

2 ай бұрын

could be something similar to the self-destruction code, that you need more than the captain to change the prefix

I think the prefix code system was never the game changer many thought it was. Sure, the Enterprise got to use Reliant's prefix codes against her, but the moment Khan realizes that _that_ is what's happening, he starts shouting "where's the override? The override!" I think similar logic applies to why neither the Spacedock nor the Excelsior could use the Enterprise's prefix codes to shut her down when Kirk stole her to go to Genesis. Whatever Scotty did with the Enterprise's automation either made the prefix codes irrelevant, or Kirk quietly had the codes changed before departing.

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

Or they simply blocked all communications on the necessary subspace bands from being accepted. Then Spacedock couldn't use the prefix code even if it hadn't been changed.

@FusionArmorX

2 ай бұрын

​@@ManabiLT Also assuming that Spacedock control actually had people at their posts as opposed to being completely empty. EDIT: Hang on, does this mean _Spacedock_ has prefix codes, too?

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

@@FusionArmorX I'm sure they have at least a few people at the controls all the time, as there's always the possibility of an emergency arising. Similar to the night shift on starships, it's probably not the best or most experienced crew, but officers wanting to get more experience on a shift that's usually pretty quiet. I doubt it, as there's not much point. It would be rare for multiple spacedocks/stations to be close enough for prefix codes to be necessary. And even when it does happen, it's only temporary, like when the Earth's current spacedock was built. Before the old one was towed to another system to become the fleet museum, there would have been a brief period with two spacedocks in the same system and close to each other.

@themount6549

2 ай бұрын

It's like in Airplanes: The Crew inside have the ultimate ability to block any outside attempts, at least if they know how to do it and aren't incapacitated.

@criticality2056

Ай бұрын

And the prefix codes were stored on the enterprise for another ship, available in plaintext. Oh no

My theory is that the prefix code was short, simple and gave alot of control to a ship because it was a default for if you knew you were going to be in a safe place and situation so as to make it easy for any trusted Starfleet system to interface with a ship and do all sorts of things. For instance if you had to abandon ship over or near a Federation controlled planet, so that when you got to a safe place, if the ship was still intact you could remote control it to fly to a safe distance if it was going to explode or if it wasn't going to explode (but was unsafe for some other reason like an disease onboard or radiation or whatever) you could land it by remote. Or even maybe if you were in space dock so that the "tower" could take control and park the ship or power down unneeded systems or whatever. Sure it would have safeguards so that any nonfederation source couldn't input it. But, I mean, yes Starfleets safety measures weren't the best, as anyone can see from their failed strategies at Wolf 358, the stuff that happened in Picard with the ship group maneuver stuff and the automated ships in Lower Decks. Heck even the Enterprise being taken over by "The Ultimate Computer" in TOS

@ManabiLT

2 ай бұрын

It was clear to me that the prefix code on its own is useless, you need access to another Starfleet computer system to use it. That way all the other important cryptological stuff happens automatically, in the background, while the prefix code simply tells the computer system what ship to aim the commands at. For a stolen Starfleet vessel, the people who stole it probably won't have the highest level access necessary to read the database of prefix codes, at least not at first. By the time they gain access to it, Starfleet will know the ship's stolen and all ships will have changed their prefix codes, making that database worthless.

Thanks for this. I remembered TWOK and "The Wounded" use of prefix codes, but I didn't catch the Picard Series 3 reference to them. For the onscreen TWOK code, I'd personally always assumed it was merely a reference key for accessing a far more complicated code string held in the Enterprise databanks. For example feed the code into an algorithm that produces the start of the memory block where the full code was located.

Wouldn't this sign-off be better? "I have been-and always shall be-your Rick."

Perhaps when transmitting "16309" for example, there is an embedded code saying "this is a Starfleet vessel sending: You are in violation."? You send the code, the receiver asks for greenlight: Kirk; Adm. James T. sends personal code, Reliant requests verification. Capt. Spock greenlights, Reliant complies because embedded handshake is active, and command codes are up to date

depends on how many times the computer lets you submit a wrong code. If the computer just lets someone attempt to submit the code an unlimited number of times, Ie a brute force attack, then yeah they are incredibly vulnerable. But if they work like bank pin numbers which lock out after three failed attempts, then its pretty secure.

@keit99

2 ай бұрын

Or maybe just once if the prefix Codes are not directly know by anybody, but rather you need a certain Code that allows you to access a prefixcode, that then gets transferred to the ship without you ever knowing the prefux Code. Obviously that Code needs also a max failed attempts

What’s up with captains loudly proclaiming their passcodes? I mean I guess you can get a new code supposing you survive the situation requiring it.

@hanshawks5088

2 ай бұрын

They are probably have voice recognition

@The_Fallen_1

2 ай бұрын

@@hanshawks5088 Even assuming Star Trek doesn't have voice cloning like we do, they know there are at least 2 species out there that can easily mimic their voice (possibly more, but only the Changelings and Species 8472 come to mind, though I guess maybe that silver goo stuff from Voyager too), and I'm sure it's easy for almost anyone to stealthily make a near perfect recording of their voices given it's not that hard now. It seems like a massive oversight, especially when they have every reason to suspect that shape shifting aliens have infiltrated them to some level as soon as they meet them.

@jonathantifone8001

2 ай бұрын

Drama, give actors something to do, sounds cool. Take your pick 😀

@Yandarval

2 ай бұрын

@@The_Fallen_1 Outside of the TV drama. There is likely checks where that officer is when giving the command. Bad guy of the Week should not be able to play back a perfect recording of a code from location Y. When the Computer knows the Captain etc has been in X location, for an hour and has not left it.. Yet, the command is coming from Y. The amount of programmes that wilfully skip or ignore real World procedures to prevent exactly what the story wants. They have been on the rise for decades. The average person does not even need any special knowledge to spot these gaping plot holes either. There is the "Rule of Cool" and there taking it way too far.

@Corbomite_Meatballs

2 ай бұрын

It could also be coupled with biometrics that the computer checks: Is this person assigned to the ship? Are they on board? Where are they giving the code from? Are they allowed to give me this code? Does the voice print match my records? When was the code last updated? How many times has this code been used? And so forth.

I think it's much simpler. They say in Wrath of Khan, the prefix code is to 'use our console to tell Reliant to lower its shields'. So consoles are the equivalent of bluetooth keyboards. They normally have your ship's prefix code set, but you can switch to another. Prefix codes don't have to be complicated, just unique. On its own it does nothing more than make a connection, the regular security system still then has to identify you as an authorised user.

@criticality2056

Ай бұрын

Not in the movie

Happy Sunday Rick.

Thanks Rick!

Perfect timing - I was just playing Starfinder with friends last night, and the topic of ship-to-ship hacking became a major plot point. Sent this to them for some fun extra background/ideas on the topic. 🙂

So excitingggg love your work xx

Been enjoying a lot of your videos recently, catching up on the Wolf 359 fleet, can I ask what you are using to show the ship footage, is it a game?

Later codes are probably more condeluded... Me remembering the new command code when Data temporarily went rogue. I just remember hearing 7 a lot.

@Timberwolf69

2 ай бұрын

How long did it take Data to recite that code?

@HeadlessChickenTO

2 ай бұрын

@Timberwolf69 I just looked up the video...about 15seconds. And now I'm tempted to go back and jot down the entire code.

@Timberwolf69

2 ай бұрын

@@HeadlessChickenTO If you do, could you count how many digits the code had? Sorry... 😅

@HeadlessChickenTO

2 ай бұрын

@@Timberwolf69 Ahem... 173467321476C32789777643T732V73117888732476789764376 Lock

Ric, an example you missed of Prefix codes being used effectively is in the TNG episode "Unnatrual Selection" where the Enterprise used a code to take control of the technically adrift USS Lantree, stop its engines, access the remote bridge monitor to investigate why they weren't responding to hails, and initiate a Quarantine Lockdown on it because the entire crew was dead from an aging pathogen they had picked up from the Genetic Research Station they had just departed from.

Starfleet just duss not know how to "Hack the Planet!" lol "So the combination is... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life!" "Amazing that's the same password that I have on my luggage!"

@AzraelTekkenSarran

2 ай бұрын

“I see your Schwartz is as big as mine”

@jonathantifone8001

2 ай бұрын

Looks down slowly.

Regarding the mere 5 digit prefix code in TWOK, a bit of headcanon I've help on to for years is that the ship attempting to connect might only get ONE chance to enter the correct code before they are locked out or have to wait a time before another attempt. The recipient ship would also get alerted as to the attempt. This eliminates the possibilty of an attacking computer being able to run through all 30,240 combinations in miliseconds every time!

Wouldn't the transporter be easier to trasfer Data from one ship to another

They need to redesign security from ground up.

I like the Shaders on the logo. :)

Interesting!

Prefix code was also used to lower the shields of USS Masada in Star Trek 25th Anniversary, one of the Best Star Trek games.

Hmm, if I ever find myself the owner of a Federation starship, I'm air-gapping all my communication systems from command systems. Or if I'm ever an Admiral, I'll just send a fleet after a rouge. This is why we have escape pods people!

My headcannon is that 16309 is the passcode in the system that he orders the officer to enter into, and their ship then uses this passcode and the name of the targeted ship to decrypt the prefix and gain access. Or something like that.

Dammit you sent me down a wiki rabbit hole on encoding techniques for the last hr lol

Usually when Starfleet vessels are hacked, it’s caused by a technology that’s so far beyond their current cybersecurity capabilities that there’s no chance of mounting a defense. For example, the Living Construct was future tech that was essentially an artificial life form. It was able to monitor and manipulate a ship’s crew for months before it ever reached its intended target.

Thanks

A prefix code is there to allow admirals to "slave" subordinate vessels to the command systems of his flag ship, to allow the Admiral's division/squadron/taskforce/ fleet to function as a unified unit. This is why Admiral Kirk (Commander, Starfleet Operations) had access to this information, and Khan couldn't just "extract" that information from the Reliant's crew, in the original use of the concept.

After Prodigy, I imagine they upgraded their cyberwarfare suite, likely with Borg tech

I would assume due to it's simplistic nature and that it is more used by the federation than any other stellar power .. that it would be a quite easily overlooked method when attempting to take remote command of another vessel ..

0:10 USS Lantree? Don't die of old age, Rick. 🖖🏻

I assume several key systems just can't be accessed by the prefix, like overriding the life support or ejecting the bridge module. Personally I would order the opposing ship's computer to change all interfaces (voice and screen ui) to Welsh, and then disable the universal translator. If the enemy crew is unfamiliar with the ship controls (due to having captured the vessel), then finding any control now becomes impossible.

I think the prefix code would have to go through a Star Fleet system first. Its like a seed number that is feed to the computer to validate and then generate a long encryption key of 4096-bits or more to send the actual instructions to the other vessel. I assume this would also work if the prefix code is sent directly to the vessel who would then validate and just execute the sent command. Can you imagine if there was a 2FA. A captain tries to use his own code to take his ship back, but get denied because his comm badge did not respond to the 2FA handshake in time.

Perhaps this code needs to be transmitted over a very specific frequency and or multiple frequencies which could increase it's security. Not to mention in the reliant's situation they accepted the transmission under the guise it was the genesis information. So they could be more direct in this situation.

I would imagine that the short prefix codes would need to be broadcast from a Starfleet or Federation computer system. I would think that it would combine with the native encryption of a Starfleet computer or broadcast. On the other hand the one sent to the Cardassian ship may not have been so short, but rather a more extensive one.

Did Locutus use prefix codes at the battle of Wolf 359? If Starfleet was on the ball they would have changed all the prefix codes - but what if they weren't?

0:50 A command code would be executed by the computer regardless of the crew saying yay or nay. A prefix would have to be granted being the difference while the command code is to be executed. Its why you don't want connectivity when command codes can override your sht. Consequently the bridge needs to allow access w/ a prefix code given.

Hey, I was wondering what exactly was the aftermath of Praxis exploding? I know the Khitomer Accords happened, and that lead to peace between the Federation and the Klingon empire, but it was said that the explosion severely damaged the atmosphere of Qonos and that they had only decades left? How was that mitigated?

"Tell Quark to stop sending warranty extention requests for our Warpcore. We remember what happened to the Resolve."

The weird habit of storing lots of rocks in various panels around the starship is the real hazard. Especially on the Bridge.

My head cannon is that the digits in Reliant’s prefix aren’t simply numbers, but call to a specific algorithm or something.

A better use of the prefix code in Wrath of Kahn would probably been to have the Enterprises transporters standing by to materialise an activated photon torpedo onto the Reliant's bridge as soon as the shields went down (in the style of Janeway). Otherwise the ships computer could have been commanded to eject the Reliant's warp core which would have effectively disabled the vessel, but that would have made for a very short movie.

I wonder if the code that Data uses to lock out the Enterprises systems with that long code could be a type of prefix code?

the biggest reason to have a prefix code. quarantined ships where everyone on board is incapacitated. A friendly ship that could tow, needs to send the "lower shield" command and have it accepted without risking people by beaming them onboard. prefix codes are also probably used by starbases to override command functions so a ship cant just full impulse in starbase. Kirk would know all these things, as an Admiral. and Spock would as well as a instructor and generally smart person.

The best command you can sent is to place all on board HMI/HID in test mode preventing the crew from countering the subsequent commands from the external source. Why engineering doesn’t have a physical disconnect for the main computer to the comms array is beyond me as this would stop external attacks cold

I just had a thought watching this, why just lower the shields? Could have sent multiple commands including ejecting the warp core. Just keep sending commands until they figure out how stop it.

Rick you need to learn you up about entropy (within the context of information theory) and then you'll get a lot clearer handle on how numbers work in relation to coding schemes across the board. For example, "16309" being short scarcely makes a difference if you get to add commas wherever you'd like. You've got 5 digits, that's 16.6 bits of entropy. But then you only have four places you can put commas, which only adds 4 bits of entropy for 20.6 total. 16309 might index into a database of available files where each file has a gigabyte of entropy ... but entropy as a property bottlenecks. No matter how complex each file is, you still only have your 20.6 bits to index them so as long as the adversary knows what all of those files are (which they would have to to use the prefix system against anyone else) they still only have to guess the right file, and you still only have the 20.6 bits (literally 20.6 yes/no guesses) to protect you. That is the backbone behind why "short password bad"

My guess that what captains have is not actual code but access to electronic code where to find actual code. And actual codes are stored randomly somewhere in database so its not easy to find even if someone searches for it. So prefix code could be where to find actual code on your own ship.

The USS Masada is when I first learned of Prefix code.

I believe Picard uses them in S2 Unnatural Selection to control the USS Lantree whose crew had died from a contagion. As for 16309, it was in a movie in the 80s

So now I wonder if the bulk of security dept on the ship are actually cyber security, something closer to engineering. And that's why security and engineering have the same color uniform.

Question: can you mess up a Starfleet vessel by geting them to scan you if you have a QR code painted on the hull? Discuss

@hanelyp1

2 ай бұрын

Only if the QR code has the necessary access prefix. Unless the ship is running the OS current to the TNG era which runs data as code in an insecure sandbox.

@merrick1588

2 ай бұрын

@@hanelyp1 so definitely an issue for the Galaxy project series of ships then

@willgoogletakethisname3963

2 ай бұрын

There’s something called input sanitation that protects against code being injected by input fields. Look up sql injection for an irl example. This is a basic defensive coding pattern I assume starfleet would use.

I mean, every time a torp hits the ship the ship loses shields ... so that's just as effective. They probably weren't using the term prefix to mean computer code..... Since the show was based of Navy/Submarines in space they probably meant prefix as in the Hull number (not the NCC designation). So, it's not only the code, but the frequency/channel/encryption/IFF interrogation and then the proper command. So, you would need to know all that in order to do it, and if you didn't know most of it... the other ship might detect you sending comms on a wide spectrum. In ST2 - we just assumed Kahn's crew didn't know what was going on because they weren't trained..... however in TNG the Pegasus crew were trained and they didn't prevent the shutdown (only changed the codes after).

Pretty sure I've seen that connector on either an Epson thermal receipt printer or a Zebra thermal label printer. Or both.

What about the example of when Picard used the prefix code for the USS Lantree and got access to the USS Lantree's main viewscreen?

In real world computer tech a public key signature would be good to authenticate the source of a message. The keys for these, depending on variant, are thousands of bits long,

Right off the bat, blue and orange. Orange rejects blue at first.

As a bit of a non sequitur, anyone here know of a Galaxy class TMP era mashup? I would love to see a galaxy class with the TMP refit nacelles, and bridge style.

And Q help you if the Borg get ahold of a CO before the Prefix Codes are changed

I'm not experienced enough with cryptography for it to be a particularly educated guess, but I feel like the actual numbers referred to as prefix codes are more of a *seed* for one, as opposed to the actual functional code itself. So instead of sending just the prefix code itself along with whatever instructions, the computer sends over a whole algorithm with some set of variables being determined by the seed. The algorithm(s) would have to be standardized in some way for it to work properly, but needing said algorithm should still be leagues better than something that could be blasted out by any reasonably capable random number generator on its own.

I'm surprised that there's no dialogue in ST Voy like Captain Janeway tries the Prefix code to Disable the Equinox or Captain Ransom uses Voyager's prefix code to escape capture.

@marvelboy74

2 ай бұрын

It' s possible they didn't consider it. Or, there could have been but they found that the dialogue didn't add to the plot or messed up pacing. Or it could have been cut for time.

@Sasuke81a

2 ай бұрын

@@marvelboy74 PhantomObserver brought a good point too, another reason could be that neither Captain Janeway and Captain Ransom didn't have 'Access Privileges' to the Prefix Codes which could've been reserved to Starfleet Flag Officers (E.g. The Rank of Vice Admiral or Higher) and Instructors.

You forgot the episode where the Ent D used a prefix code to activate the viewscreen of a derilict fed ship to see what happened to the bridge crew (they all died of old age in their chairs), i forgot the name of the episode. What would you do though if a prefix code contained every number in the earth alphabet? 0-9

"While we could have a 4 on its own..." We couldn't in this case, or it'd be a prefix to 42. Eliminating that ambiguity is the whole idea with prefix codes -- given a valid coded string, there's always exactly one unambiguous way to parse it. No lookahead is necessary.

It makes sense that Khan wouldn’t have known how to disable the prefix code on the Reliant since he likely didn’t know it existed until it was used against him. Same with the Elasi pirates who hijacked the Masada in the 25th Anniversary game. But, Jacob McNeil from Starfleet Academy? I would think a disgraced Starfleet captain would’ve known about the prefix codes before commandeering a Federation vessel. Wonder how THAT plot hole gets explained away.

I just thought of something, an anti virus type system running within the ships computers and then a connected read only chip that would be installed by starfleet and when or if a ship was hacked the ROM chip could be accessed and the only thing it could do would be wipe the system and restore all default settings set by starfleet. One of which would be a code by whomever built the ship to give them access back. This would have the side effect of locking out the crew which would be bad, but they could have another chip that was encrypted and could only be used if the ship was reset to its default state. This chip would have to be installed by the crew and maybe two officers command codes would be needed to activate it. This would be a back up system set up before any new command was designated for each ship. Meaning the chip would be unique to each crew. The encryption methods would not even be known by the crew and they wouldn't need to know as they could just insert the chip and use their codes on a panel to activate it. This would give that crew full access to the ship. It would also log the fact that this was used to take over a ship. But it could trigger the ROM chip to activate as well if they were say, trying to take an already hacked ship back manually. I know none of this is a thing in trek. I just thought it would be a good idea.

Prefix code instructions to disable the warp core containment system instantly. Then the crew don't have time to fix it as they have blown up. Or just eject the warp core, it's a quick system so the ship is suddenly without warp power.

@jimskywaker4345

2 ай бұрын

I assume that that isn´t a possibility, not when the self destruct system is more complicated then that.

Angry Captain yelling at Starfleet tech support: “When you guys said this was 80s-level encryption, I thought you meant the 2280s, not the 1980s!! What in blazes!?”

In plain terms the code prevents an enemy from taking control of a ship’s system

So this basically sounds just like a public-private key encryption system, similar to ones we commonly use today, just with a much simpler algorithm. It's kind of cute Starfleet still uses just alphanumeric passwords too... they really need to invest in some two-factor authentication and biometrics. Then again, I recall in one episode Data was just mimicing the voices of all the senior staff to hack the computer, so maybe that wouldn't quite work...

can the captin comand no1 to do a no2?

Short answer. Yes. The first thing as a captain I would change.

Perfect song for this. 😂

Yeah... I"d change the password on my starship as a skipper. It will be written down in hard copy, not put to computer memory. We'll tell Starfleet when we talk at Starbases, then change it when we leave.

When in doubt, try 47.

Starfleet needs to take a page from BSG in dealing with cyber warfare. Make a ship that is so old school it uses rotary phones on board.

anyone who's ever had to multifactor login to the admin VPN, to then find and type in a bitlocker key by hand will tell you that would very much not make for a riveting cinematic sequence

Commander codes were a nonsense. Though Trek was one of first SF shows, who even tackled issue of cyber-security. My head canon exploitation is that it is actually a intend test. To avoid coincidental giving orders to computer or in state of confusion. It is why repeating complex phase before giving high clearance order is needed.

If one were to believe that an Anti-borg task force commander would integrate all Starfleet ships to work as a single hive during an attack, then yes, it would be a SEVERE risk. otherwise, keep calm and carry on. would probably and eventually be chain code encrypted.

It would be interesting if the enemy found out about this.

Given how 80s the Wrath of Khan is with it's computers, I am surprised that anything is close. Now to wild speculation. Considering that Star Fleet is technically a military organization with hostile nations on the borders, I believe it is safe to say that they have some level of computer encryption. Probably some level of fleet wide security. Each ship having a set of keys to the encryption. Lost vessels would not have updated keys, but serving ships would. This means that just having a prefix code would not do much. If a prefix code is the equivalent of a name, like Reliant, with commands following. Lower shields. So Reliant, lower shields. Without the fleet keys, it could not be read correctly. When Reliant, lower shields is sent, it would not be sent in the clear, unencrypted. It would be sent after being encrypted with Star Fleet brand Digital Data Safety. Effectively turned into random character strings. Then when Reliant receives it, it decrypts it, verifying that the code atleast came from someone with access to a Star Fleet vessel, reads the prefix, sees its name and orders. So even receiving a prefix code means that at someone in Star Fleet captains rank or higher is sending it. Given that for security you need to update codes periodically, just taking an old ship and using its keys for encryption would not work. It would need a current set of keys. This makes me think that when Star Fleet sent the Cardassians the prefix code, it was more of a note with "Copy and paste this into your comms and send it to lower shields." After the incident was resolved, Star Fleet updates its codes and the Cardassians are left with some encrypted out of data encrypted data to chew on. End of speculation. I am tired of magic hacking in Star Trek. "Oh no. We been hacked. It bypassed our firewalls and took control." It feels lazy. In the 80s computers were not common place, but to even tead this comment at least 4 computers were involved, 3 if you are Rick. YT's server, Rick's PC, my phone, and what ever you are using to read it. Possibly Rick's PC. How is it the writing has gotten worse for writing computers while computer literacy has gone up? Rant over. Thank you for your time. Thank you for reading this far. Have a nice day.

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"savik, punch the up the data charts on reliants command console" "the prefix code?" "it's all we have left" "reliants prefix code is 16309" also i love that kirk can explain all this to savik while kahn is on comms with video and somehow doesnt hear it or lip read it. kahns own arrogance i suppose.

It appears that anyone can hack a SF ship. Im waiting for the ep where someone from 21st century Earth just waltz's in, and has complete control of ship in seconds. using his relic Star-tac flip phone and some chewing gum foil.

How did the borg never figure to use prefix codes to capture starfleet ships?

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