With solar energy being a real thing, and realizing that this is a mute point in the dark, why couldnt solar panels be equipped on top of the coach, to provide a constant, longer charge (if that were even possible)?

@graywilliams_77.

Жыл бұрын

This is the most beautiful Motor coach. I love the way he goes about his job. But the truth is; without making good investments, no one can ascertain the kind of money required to own such Car. I am retiring next yr at 55 with 3 houses paid off worth 40.5 million. I realized that the secret to making a million is making better investments.

@graywilliams_77.

Жыл бұрын

Credits to ROCHELLE DUNGCA-SCHREIBER, she has always had my back all through the process of working and investing. You can glance her name up on the internet and verify her yourself. she has years of financial market experience...

@airbus7373

Жыл бұрын

I doubt solar panels alone would power an entire motorcoach. There are already crazy design considerations into making solar powered cars possible. At best it would probably extend the range 100 miles, which is something, but probably not worth the extra cost on top of the already expensive electric coach considering what diesel buses can do today.

@jimmydalerichardson

9 ай бұрын

There are all electric tiny houses on Wheels on the market right now. Pod and Escape are two I've seen that can power an electric truck with Solar Panels. I can't imagine why this wouldn't be possible and coming in the near future.

@jamieloasby7096

8 ай бұрын

Maybe they need to go down the path for long distance buses like what a company in Australia lis trying out……where the bus has its battery changed over at a rest stop with a fully charged battery or multiple batteries similar to a electric folk lift at a warehouse. The drained battery can then be placed on charge in a temperature controlled warehouse then be placed onto the next bus or maybe even interstate truck when it’s fully charged. The company in Australia believes the battery can be charged over in around the same time as a truck/bus is refuelled and while the driver is taking a regulation rest break. Just something that could be considered.

Hybrid seems the best choice for a coach. Less weight with a smaller engine, doesn't need huge batteries, range and winter heat not an issue, and finally and regenerative braking saves on maint.

@GilmerJohn

2 жыл бұрын

Amen. The bus can "catch up" during breaks if it has just climbed a good sized hill.

@crabbymilton390

2 жыл бұрын

They seemed to have bypassed that and straight to all electric.

@pinwizz69

2 жыл бұрын

Plus it could use a propane or hydrogen powered engine to generate the electricity to charge the batteries making it far cheaper to run than an all diesel or gasoline engine driven bus.

@crabbymilton390

2 жыл бұрын

Yes exactly. Wouldn’t have to be so concerned about konking out along the interstate and ruin a vacation because the battery ran low. Plus plenty of reserve power from that beautiful CUMMINS 6 cylinder engine. I own stock in them😜.

@davidmoser3535

Жыл бұрын

hybrid worst of both worlds

Just remember to test the new bus in all weather conditions BEFORE buying a full fleet of them as the city of Bodø found out after swapping out their old city buses for electric city buses. When winter came it turned out their new electric buses lacked sufficient downforce/traction for winter roads… A big oversight when buying fleet worth of equipment for a city in a winter nation… 🤡

Love your channel, totally agree electric buses are not ready for long-haul. That said, you missed a lot of the cost savings in your pros/cons list. Primary among them being maintenance. However much you pay for maintenance and repair staff, parts, lubricants, down time for servicing, etc - cut all that by several times over. EVs are vastly more reliable (almost no moving parts) and require almost no regular servicing for the motor. Tires, suspension, electronics, interior maintenance etc. will obviously be the same. TCO for electric cars pencils out to be far less than their ICE equivalents. I see no reason why it would be different for a bus. Still, until range and recharge time improves, it's a non-starter (see what I did there?) for coach companies for sure.

I can really see these electric motorcoaches to dominate the SF Bay Area on those Tech runs. In some areas across the country, not so much. I deliver buses for a manufacturer...and from what I can tell is that diesel is still in demand. I’ve test drive some electric vehicles in different parameters before they are shipped to the customers. The fuel range on an electric vehicle car or bus is all based on ambient temperature. On a nice warm day, a 40ft transit bus will get about 200 range. Turn on the HVAC and other accessories, the range will drop slightly. It drops even more when it’s bitter cold outside. I charged one 40ft bus on a 39 degree day, and on a 100% charge, The range was 110 miles... not good for a transit agency ... because typically a bus will stay out all day long or about 200 miles IndyGo just recently order new Diesel-hybrid Gilligs with the E-Gen Flex technology. I will have to send u a video of it.

@crabbymilton390

2 жыл бұрын

I envy you with a job like that. That is correct. Like I said, what happens when the AC is going full blast? That’s gonna guzzle a lot of juice same with heaters in the dead of winter. Diesel engines are so much cleaner and quieter than decades ago but they are pushing BEV like crazy. PIERCE, E-ONE and ROSENBAUER have begun to offer BEV versions of their fire apparatus now. You’re gonna need a big old diesel generator to keep that water pumping it a huge fire via charging. That pretty much defeats the idea of the BEV movement.

As a school bus driver myself, electric school buses are catching on quick. Considering that we drive a few hours in the morning and evening, those things can get recharged at the depot after each run. My route is only about 60 miles long in total so an electric bus would be a perfect fit. Of course, we don't show signs of switching over from diesels any time soon.

@texasabbott

2 жыл бұрын

Lion bus is building a massive electric school bus plant near Chicago, and their new plant start cranking them out fast in Canada. Battery technology is accelerating towards more range, which Lions can currently run at 155 miles per charge. Maybe you're one of those drivers who would welcome an electric bus, tired of hearing those older louder diesels (DT466, CAT come to mind). If you want a quiet whispering new diesel, ask your boss to order a bus with a Detroit Diesel DD5 (a 5.1L four-cylinder with a dual-stage turbocharger), which puts out at most as much power as a 240 hp Cummins ISB.

@12345anton6789

2 жыл бұрын

Especially if who have a route in urban area’s, not any emissions from the engine and the possibility to regenerate power with all the start/stops, and as you said, the range and recharge is no problem

@stevepackard8542

2 жыл бұрын

@@texasabbott If you think diesels are hard to start in sub-zero cold. Try running a battery!!!

@djmikethekingdj5914

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a school bus driver and our company tried electric busses during the Winter they do not start and they weren't working properly so we will not switch over to electric we are staying with diesel and Gasoline bus

@stevepackard8542

2 жыл бұрын

@@djmikethekingdj5914 Fossil fuel is here to stay!

I can share some data of Beijing transit buses. A typical citybus: Model BJ6123EVCA-37, 12m/18t/70pax/69kph/150kw, by Foton, manufacture year 2017, fleet:1860, battery from Yinlong, technology: Lithium titanate battery, capacity: 115Kwh, charge time: 30min (Quick charge. Plug x4 chargers at same time), range: ~120km. Price: ~2 million RMB per each bus. These buses used at inner city/suburban lines, (40~60km for a round trip) A typical suburban bus: Model BJ6127EVCA-6, 12m/18t/80pax/69kph/160kw, by Foton, manufacture year 2019, fleet: 100, battery from 普莱德, technology: Lithium iron phosphate battery. Capacity 250Kwh. Do not support quick charge. Charge time: 3h. Range >200km. Price: unknown. These buses usually used at suburban/long distance lines (200km for a round trip). BPT has a tragic BEV bus experiments history. Beijing started to test some BEV bus since 2001, and NONE of them survived to beijing buses typical service lifespan of 10 years. One typical tragic example is BK6122EV2, entered service in 2008. Even if BPT has replaced their battery for 2 times. And buying them new battery cost almost the same price of buying a new bus (rumored 1.8 Million RMB per each bus). When they phased out of service in 2014, only 6 out of 40's battery can operate. And what's more joke is that. BK6122EV2 is originally designed to be converted to trolleybus when their battery dies. They knew these buses' battery wont survive for so long. And in 2016, BPT did convert them to battery trolleybuses... But in 2017, Beijing gov forced BPT to rollout BEV buses. And they partnered with a company provide a niche technology route: Lithium titanate battery. To avoid traditional Lithium battery's downside: performance drop in cold weather, short battery lifespan (charge/discharge cycles). At a cost of only provide 40% capacity compared to traditional Lithium battery's capacity at same weight. So, all new BEV buses since 2017 carry much less passengers than previous BEV buses, and much shorter range. But none of them report died battery. In a word. Beijing buses has been and is still suffering from BEV's problems. We have 21 years of using BEV buses, and they are still not good enough to replace ICE buses. And BPT still not putting of BEV buses on rural/intercity bus lines. Actually, before 2019, BPT bans using BEV buses on lines that runs on expressways... PS: BPT never bought any buses from BYD. And BYD had lots of issues in early years.

What goes around comes around as folks say. Remember the trolley buses, Fixed routes, and still a common sight in Europe,many run on tracks, referred to as light rail, They were and still are very popular and yes reliable. Diesel is for the highway..

They will need to make buses with replaceable batteries like electric forklifts use. A 10 minute battery replacement would make electric buses much more usable. That would also require the infrastructure to be in place.

@davidmoser3535

Жыл бұрын

thats a horrible idea not pratical

@tiredoldmechanic1791

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmoser3535 How is it not practical? It's been done in forklifts for more than 50 years. Much cheaper to have extra batteries than to have a bus only usable for 6 or eight hours at a time.

@eshock9208

Жыл бұрын

The issue I see with that is unifying on 1 or 2 standard batteries

Everyone is going to electric. I hate it. Cars and trucks and buses. James I had no idea that a all electric motorcoach would be 1 Million. Wow.

Hi fellow bus nut! I live in Quebec and last week, our prime minister François Legault announced the government would help Prevost develop an all electric coach and also a conversion kit to transform a diesel coach into an electric one. This conversion kit idea seems interesting. In the newspaper article, the were talking about approx. 1,2 million CAD for a Prevost all electric. Nothing is known about autonomy, charging time, etc. That being said, winter can be a real challenge for electric vehicles autonomy and charging speed. Can you imagine how much energy it needs to heat a motor coach cabin when it is -20 Celsius or to cool the same cabin in a heat wave in July? Those batteries are better be good…

James, 240 miles on a buses that's electrical. I'm not even breaking a sweat until the first 500 miles of a run.

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah I know right!?

When I was doing the commuter run thing from Southern Maryland in to DC and back it was a split shift so in this case a battery operated coach would be feasible. Since it was a split AM PM run the electric coaches could be charged overnight or upon return from the AM runs. The company I was working for was under contract to the MTA = Maryland Transportation Authority. They helped offset the price of fuel and the price of buying new coaches. They also ran school buses for the county so they also got a fuel offset for that. Most of their fleet were DL3's with some newer D-4505's. the D's were mainly used for charter runs or as needed for the commuter runs. A typical run from Southern Maryland to NYC would use about 140 gallons round trip with the Allison 500's and about 130 with the ZF 10 speed. There was no need for refueling till they got back to the yard. All that fuel was calculated. A few gallons here and there between the coaches and school buses and one of the owners F-350. As far as a trip to NYC R/T on an electric coach would be a big no go.. You brought up some good points. Just like an electric car the more things you turn on the faster the battery drains. AC, Heat Lights. Entertainment system. This doesn't even include going up and down hills. Is there some sort of degeneration brake that acts like a Jake brake? To many variables.

Also, I have a friend that runs an NGO in Romania, where there was a big scandal a few years back regarding some early electrics including BYD. The scandal was that they had two demo city buses, and both broke down during the entire demo run. That sparked some debates, pro and con, and my friend went on a campain to just simply gather data. One thing that was a bit shocking (haha...Im doing your puns now), was the issue with fires. Fast charging, as well as the buses just sitting at night were at risk of fire, and battery fires are very different from diesel fires. He has documented all the cases since 2006 on the forum, and its pages long, of garages that would go up in flames, and in one case somewhere in one of the Nordic countries, the entire fleet of 200 buses went up because of a short in one of the electrics. This happened in the EU, Romania (back when it wasnt in the EU yet, and one more time later), Russia, China, and so on, with fires consuming anything from one bus, to the entire fleet, garage, offices and everything. It is something that has to be taken into account, even more so as fire fighters need special training, and often cannot even approach these fires depending on weather (maybe thats changed now. Im not FD.). I always come off as being anti eletric, when I love trolleybuses and trams, but the issue I see is that this is not a technological advancement, but rather a governmental advancement. This tech would not survive on its own. Diesel in the auto world was never helped along, and even Diesel still made inroads in cars and trucks. I doubt that would have been the case with Electrics outside of some very small city cars (a la the motorcylce license cars of Paris) to some exotics. Another thing that I find intriguing, is how different agencies treat the battieries, were the DOT will say they are fine, but the FAA outright bans the transport of Li-Ion batteries (I think it was due to UPS 6 that went down because of them. Also look up One Wheel, a company that tells customers to spray paint over the hazmat labels or their FedEx air packages, returns of DEFECTIVE battery powered devices). I am not sure what the evac time for a coach or city bus is when full, relative to the expansion rate of a Li-Ion fire, or if there were any tests done by the DOT, like the FAA requires manufactures of aircraft and operators to do. So, a lot of these hurdles seem rushed and its usually the consumers that will suffer. And I havent even gotten into any geo-political aspects, the why, where, who, and so on. Im more interested in the engineering, practical aspects. Hopefully I didnt go overboard with the clickity clack here lol. I have to get back to work anyways.

@guildrich

2 жыл бұрын

_"Eh, who cares about a bunch of battery fires? As long as there's no tailpipe, we're good!"_ -Typical EV fanatic 😂 But seriously, isn't it interesting how "hoverboards" with *_small_* LI-ion batteries were banned from public spaces and transport (for obvious reasons), yet vehicles with *_giant_* 500+ kWh firebombs...I mean batteries onboard, are allowed to transport passengers? But hey, gotta break a few eggs to make that omelette, right?

@RipRoaringGarage

2 жыл бұрын

@@guildrich Yes. There was a RoRo car carrier then sank a while back. It made headlines for some one of a kind Lamborghinis and Bugattis, and it all started from a VW EV. They evactuated, the ship burned so bad that eventually sank.

@ultimatem9178

2 жыл бұрын

Wow!🤯

@harrydymond4488

2 жыл бұрын

It’s important to understand that not all lithium ion batteries are created equal. There are several different chemistries, and form factors (of cells and packs), available and both have a strong influence on fire safety. If engineers make poor choices (such as with Chevy Bolt batteries) the fire risk is very high, whereas if the correct choices are made, fire risk is very low (e.g. LFP battery chemistry). Certainly, with the proper engineering, risk of fire starting is much lower than in an internal combustion engine vehicle, although it is true that if fire starts it can be more dangerous because the fire can be harder to extinguish. However, many batteries have effective anti-propagation designs to reduce this risk also. Out of interest, how much research have you done into subsidies for fossil fuels? I think you’ll find your statement about diesel is not true; it’s just not as overtly obvious that the subsidies are happening because they aren’t at the point of purchase.

@RipRoaringGarage

2 жыл бұрын

@@harrydymond4488 Yes, you are right about the subsidies for fuels. But I think everyone assumes the end recipient is the energy company, and not the end consumer that votes. Ultimately it comes down to efficiency, and Joules per kg per hour. Nothing beats hydrocarbon fuels, except nuclear (and I mean, the actual chain reaction, not the electricity generated, since thats just steam power generation). And if you want your mind blown, take the energetic ecuations of everything on the planet. It all balances out to zero. The same applies to any given fuel source. It will burn to the same amount of J be in now or in ten million years. So oil, will burn whether we do it, or it oxidizes on its own, and it will oxidize. So if there is a problem with the environment, its a fatal one and there is pretty much nothing we can do. We're dead. Every living thing. Then go into more poltical arguments, that research that sets off on these premises is never funded. Not even oil companies fund it. Why? That is hardly scientific when one premise is utterly ignored.

Thank you, James. As a kid I was fascinated by the "trolley buses" in San Francisco. The were on certain fixed routes with a labyrinth of overhead wires to power them. No batteries to replace, no fuel to buy, just grid power.

@MalcolmRowley

2 жыл бұрын

I remember those busses. I guess the wires were an eye sore, but we 2ere ahead of the curve.

@gatornomad7479

2 жыл бұрын

They would have to set up charge strips in our highways that are 1 mile long solar powered fast chargers

@davidmoser3535

Жыл бұрын

i hated the trolley buses thats why electric seld contained buses hopefully will take over

@eshock9208

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmoser3535 what's wrong with trolley buses?

@falconseyeaerialservicesll8176

Жыл бұрын

@@gatornomad7479, they are experimenting with charging systems put under the blacktop (road) one in Detroit and the other in Germany. There is another country involved but forgot which country it is. The goal is having a charge system underneath the road surface so it can charge any vehicles that are traveling/moving along the highways.

Another great video. I've been fortunate which is to say challenged to work on the 24 all electric CRTLE in Lancaster,CA. What a ride and learning experience. One thing to note is you don't want to charge a fleet all at the same time during the highest price per kWh of the day. Our customer figured that out real quick.

@eshock9208

Жыл бұрын

Charge them all at night right?

Thanks for this review. I am currently driving a Bluebird electric Type I conventional school bus. It’s fun to drive, but it is finicky. Range is limited to about 80 miles. IMHO…Electric buses have a role to play doing in town routes but they are not ready to replace the diesel for rural routes or out of town trips.

Wow James! Thanks for explaining the pluses and minuses EV busses, especially the challenges involved in the over-the-road sector WITHOUT the politics and emotion.

I would not want to blaze the trail with an electric bus. If we could only get the same fuel that powers the U.S.S Enterprise!

In Brazil there´s a bus line called "Princesa dos Campos" and they´re actually testing eletric buses to travel between cities (Curitiba-Ponta Grossa-Curitiba 120km distant) on a 42 seat bus you can go by yourself actually it´s pretty easy

Hello from Winnipeg, Canada, the Canadian home of MCI and New Flyer. Winnipeg Transit did have a couple of New Flyer test buses with Mitsubishi electric power train running on one of its routes. This run was not a high demand run, and the buses could sit a while at one end of the route (the airport end) to gain some charge, I believe. But it was a trial and the trial has been over for a couple of years.

Thanks for the video, yes those prices and recharge times are not good. Here in the UK, the driver has to take a 45-minute stop I think every 4 hours (I am not an expert but something like that). When a coach can drive for close to four hours and recharge in 45 minutes then it will be viable for most purposes.

@SimonEllwood

2 жыл бұрын

I just checked driver's are allowed to drive for 5:30 max but must have a 45 minute break within a maximum 8:30. Such a long drive without a stop would be very rare however, the passengers are going to want a comfort stop and food in less than that!

@brianb-p6586

9 ай бұрын

I like your logic. If the average driving speed is 90 km/h (55 MPH), then that four hours covers 360 km (220 miles), which is about the range of current battery-electric coaches. The problem is the 45 minute full charge, which is not reasonable. With current technology the battery would need to be larger so that it would only be perhaps 60% used over the 4 hours, and could be recharged (from 20% back to 80%, not to fully charged) during the break time. Of course this assumes that every break location will have an available high-power (megawatt) charging station port at the time that the coach arrives... and that this not trivial.

My small city has them in it's transit fleet and I've ridden many times. From a rider perspective they are comfortable, and they go through tight 1700's city streets, and I'm sure the quietness is appreciated by residents. Apparently they are having a few issues with time between charges, especially in winter. I have a theory.... I think part of the issue with battery drain might also be the way they are driven. The drivers really seem to be laying into that instant torque. They will sink you back in your seat. I don't know if there is a software "eco" mode to coach for longer range, or maybe they just need to adjust their driving (plus people just need to wear a darn coat and not expect bus interiors to be 75 degrees in winter). I agree they're not ready for long-haul service yet. I think long-distance vehicles will probably be suited to some degree of hybridization over time.

Where I live in California, regular gas is $5.50/gallon. I paid $85.00 to fill my tank the other day.

@bdpopeye

2 жыл бұрын

In Cedar Rapids Iowa yesterday I paid $3.62 a gallon at Sams club. Most fuel here is around $3.80 a gallon.

Hi James, as a city bus operator, the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is always the most and only thing to look at. For E-coaches, indeed, it will take a bit longer to be profitable. Also for the dieselbus fleet there was also a big investment made on the tools for the shop in the beginning, don't forget about that. But coming back to my point, TCO is the dealbreaker in the end.

@ 12:22 James, thank you for posting the Toyota Tacoma, as we and other Tacoma owners love our Tacos, my Taco gets 22 city, 24 highway.

You may not be buying fuel anymore, but your electric bill will jump through the roof, something to consider when your bean counter is running the numbers.

I can see electric buses taking over in transit, school bus service and commuter motorcoach service. The same for electric trains. However, long-distance motorcoaches should remain diesel for now due to range and charging limitations, but shift gradually towards the cleanest possible sustainable diesel, which is sourced from similar bio-fuel and green synthetic base oils being supplied to the airline industry to make new jet fuel. Who knows, maybe the new diesel fuels will mean that problematic aftertreatment systems such as particulate filters and DEF may be phased out!

@protector22222

2 жыл бұрын

I like this comment a lot...makes good sense

@harrydymond4488

2 жыл бұрын

But you’ve got to start somewhere! Everything will be electric eventually, but it is impossible to transition everything all at once.

@snoopyloopy

2 жыл бұрын

CNG.

The last issue with ebusses is infrastructure! Charter busses do not always go where there are charging stations and that infrastructure is a long way off unfortunately!

@TheBandit7613

2 жыл бұрын

The power available is 25+ years away, even if battery power was available (it's not) The grid is NOWHERE near being able to handle 150 million people plugging in their 240 volt, 50 amp chargers every day. Wind and solar aren't going to power that kind of demand and it takes decades just to approve a new power plant.

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

@@TheBandit7613 Anti-EV people love to say that. Too bad they're wrong, though. By the time enough EVs can be built to cause these imaginary grid problems to even possibly become real, power companies (or even end users) will have expanded power generation to match. The average car in the USA goes 40ish miles per day. 12 amps of 120 volts from any wall socket, for 10 hours overnight when the grid is not the least bit stressed, is enough to recharge that. Where I live, that costs under $1, and it's not bringing down the grid.

@TheBandit7613

2 жыл бұрын

@@EfficientRVer 120 volt, 12 amp. What is that charging? A Power Wheels Barbie Jeep? A 240 volt Tesla charger will do 22 miles for every hour. What kind of mythical car are you quoting?

Electric busses I think make sense in large cities like Chicago, SF, New York ,etc. For on-the-road type of travel (tour busses for example) I don't think they are as feasible. For one thing, you would probably have to charge them once a day or every, say, 500 miles. But for in-town use especially in large cities, this wouldn't be a problem because cities would have hundreds of these and they could cycle them in and out. Maybe each bus runs for 12-16 hour shifts and then goes back to the garage to be charged for 8 hours and then back out on the road again. And the fuel savings would be large because vehicles tend to get worse gas mileage in-town than they do going down the highway at a constant speed.

One solution is what a project in Germany where they're using overhead wires to power large trucks on the highways. I'm thinking motorcoaches can take advantage of that, Tom Scot did a video about the project called "The highway where trucks work like electric trains". It would be a sight to see overhead wires installed on the U.S. Interstate System.

I love commuter coaches. They also have a model of the MCI D45 CRT LE but it's very rare to find one. I wanted to get one but just like the real thing are very expensive. Like the AC transit version of the D45. BYD's double decker coaches are cool too but not many major cities excluding Las Vegas, San Louis Obispo, New York, Seattle and LA are considering them.

Very interesting James, thanks for all the time and work you put into these. Please keep making videos ✌️out.

They really should make electric vehicles with removable batteries and just switch them out at the charging station.

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Wow I've never thought of doing it that way! That's brilliant. I guess too much liability on the power stations though. If they put a defective battery on your vehicle it's kind of on them but yes I still think your idea is awesome

@mrj-charles6383

2 жыл бұрын

There is a prototype vehicle where you pull up to the charging station and the battery tray slides out then you slide one in. Not sure how long it takes but if 30 minutes it would better than 3-5 hours.

@rabbytca

2 жыл бұрын

@@MotorcoachWorld Interchangeable battery packs only require an industry standards committee. If the coach and bus manufacturers really wanted their industry to transition to an electric market they would have gotten together by now and published version one. Much like USB, HDMI and computer power supplies those standards are jointly managed for the benefit of the industry. If they wait for government intervention to develop something more than likely no one will be happy with the specification. There could also end up being one dominant player forcing their proprietary device and its licensing costs upon the slow to adapt players. Battery swapping is not a new concept either we've been doing it since before the portable radio came out. It has allowed portable products to develop while the battery technology limped along waiting for those eureka moments. As for the solar thing, if it ran the air conditioning that would be the use that it is best suited to.

@brianmorrissey

2 жыл бұрын

@@MotorcoachWorld Janus Electric in Australia is running prototype Kenworth highway tractors with interchangeable batteries. The battery is removed/replaced with a forklift in under 5 minutes. The batteries are stored in charging racks along the truck's route. They charge at slower rates prolonging the life of the battery, and off peak when electricity is cheaper. Each battery is tracked for health. The big compromise with trucks is the reduction in payload. How are these electric coaches affected? Can you still carry 56 passengers and luggage without overloading the axels?

I work for a transit agency (Pullman Transit) that is only buying new buses that are battery electric. Our “solution” to the maintenance and mechanic issue is to NOT deal with it. Our buses are built by Gillig, with the battery systems in them being from Cummins. Instead of working on the electric systems ourselves we send the buses to the Cummins shop…. 75 miles away in Spokane! The Gillig battery buses have a range of about 100-120 miles, which is enough for most of our routes for a full day, but not always. Sometimes we have to trade a bus out with only a few hours of service left for that route for the day. It’s frustrating from a dispatch perspective but I personally love driving them. Smooth, very fast acceleration and very easy to make a gentle stop with the regen braking. Very quiet inside too which is nice for the driver. As for motor coaches, the company I work for has runs from Pullman to the Spokane airport. With about 160 miles round trip I could see electric coaches working for that. I do think that electric coaches will probably start out with short line run trips like that.

I think the range would have to be a minimum of 500 miles/charge over the life of the battery and recharge

@qwerty112311

2 жыл бұрын

I can’t even comprehend the energy loss, expense, and unreliability of embedded charging.

@anongackattack5760

2 жыл бұрын

hrmm like... a ...trolly.. how things come full circle no?

@eshock9208

Жыл бұрын

I think in the UK they are experimenting with grid powered semis drawing power from overhead lines on their freeways

Excellent video and a great run down on electric buses and their place on the industry. (Also like the “Reserved Driver” sticker above the driver’s seat, I’m glad that’s made clear 😂)

Thank you for this video, James. It's good to know how things are going when it comes to electric buses. From what I see here in Europe and electric motorcoaches, I don't even know where they are and how much manufacturers are doing now. I'm not blaming them, much on the contrary. I completely understand it. It's the same thing you said. The mile range, the buying cost, and the maintenance cost. I remember seeing last year that an electric city bus was 600000 EUR base price. While a diesel bus, fully equipped, was still 250000 EUR. Coaches here are quite expensive, so an electric one may be a very huge price (like those you mentioned). In Portugal, the Government also made a purchase of about 500 to 600 city buses. Most of them work with natural gas. The famous company Carris (or C.C.F.L.) received 80 electric Caetano (with Toyota electric motor) buses while the one in Porto, named Serviços dos Transportes Colectivos do Porto (STCP) received also the same (80, if I'm right) electric ones. While the SMTCB (in my hometown) received 60 natural gas buses (MAN 18.310 HOCL with Caetano bodyframe). But this was only for city buses and also only for these three companies. In the future, these electric coach buses may have a great range and become a really great option. On the other hand, there are also other options that may be great in the future. Achates Power has that 10L three cylinders six pistons engine with more than 2000Nm of torque and very low NOx. Cummins is also going into this Hydrodiesel engine. In Sweden, there's the production of Hydrogen Vegetable Oil. This one reduces CO2 by 90% and it's currently being used by the FIA European Truck racing and being commercialized in some European countries. And recently, Sebastian Vettel is working on sustainable fuels. They only use it in racing yet, but the plan is to extend it to any vehicle since they work quite well in old ones. And there are also synthetic fuels. Not good enough for now, but in the future, who knows? As I see it in the future, having these different alternatives, companies will decide which option suits best for them.

I would love one as a base for a motor home, but the range has to be what you can go at highway speeds fully loaded in 8 hours (500 miles). An alternate would be a highly efficient, low emissions internal combustion range extender.

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

I'm very pro-EV, and think that some people will pay the extra $500K for electric vs diesel. But wishing that range is 2.5x what it actually is, isn't going to make that happen anytime soon. The actual choice is to either allow for 4-5 hours of charging (plus charging at the end of the day) during a 500 mile day. Batteries charge faster when closer to empty than full, so 2 half charges take less time than one full charge. The other option is to plan your trips to take more days, enjoying stuff along the way. Personally I take my road trips in a PHEV, so that I can treat it just like a hybrid and spend no time charging when I'm trying to cover ground. I had a 1050 mile day last July (most of Nebraska through most of Ohio) returning from out west to New England. But in a BEV, I simply would have planned and driven the trip differently.

This was pretty interesting, and while I am pretty sure that me being a huge EV nerd brought me here, I have two other connections: I also really like Star Trek, and I have worked at UIUC for some time and have traveled on your coaches to and fro O'Hare quite a few times. I think, the time is not there for electric coaches yet. The main reasons are not only insufficient range, but also that charging speed is not fast enough, and neither are suitable fast chargers available. Contrast this with electric cars: in North America, and even more so in Europe, long-distance road trips are not really an issue any more as long as you have a suitable car. Tesla is the obvious example, but there are many others now as well. My guess is, in another five to ten years, the picture will already be a lot different!

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Hey thanks for the comment. Wow that's awesome. Sounds like we have a lot in common. You should come by the Urbana garage some time and I'll give you a tour! Jwang@peoriacharter.com shoot me an email if you're interested.

On the range if it says 310 miles that really means realistically about 240-260 miles. The Proterra transit bus we use where I live comes in different tiers. The mid tiers buses we have are supposed to have 150-175 range, after running accessories that range is more like 120. Especially range diminishes during the winter.

That was a fascinating video. I am in favor of electric vehicles, but in many cases, the world is just not ready to even make every fleet 25 percent all-electric buses. Price needs to come down, range needs to increase, charging time needs to decrease, and they need to be able to do the speed limit. Also, I note that the buses shown tout being "zero emission." Many manufacturers are correcting that to say "zero direct emission," because of the increase in pollutants at power plants. This brings up another issue: What would a bus company's electric bill be to charge the buses, and can the electrical infrastructure handle everyone charging their vehicles at once, especially in places like California which already has rolling blackouts. I suppose a bus company using electric buses could wisely invest in diesel generators.

@guildrich

2 жыл бұрын

*_"I suppose a bus company using electric buses could wisely invest in diesel generators."_* But, wouldn't that kinda defeat the whole purpose of having an EV fleet? I mean, if you need diesel generators to charge the batteries, why not just use the diesel fuel to power the bus *_itself?_* I swear, we live in a Rube Goldberg society now.

@tractorboy31

2 жыл бұрын

@@guildrich that's kinda why all electric vehicles are stupid at this time. Drive 3 hrs and charge 4 hrs. Seems stupid for a charter bus. I remember taking a John Deere factory tour so Michigan to Iowa. I can't imagine doing it 3 hrs at a time

trolleybusses are best for transit services in hilly and or cold/sweltering areas. I've seen an electric BYD coach doing the Capilano shuttle service in Vancouver, which makes sense to me especially for the short distance involving stop-go traffic and only 2 bus stops

Weight is the enemy of any vehicle. Batteries have really low energy density, and heavy buses need a lot of energy to get going. As a result, batteries which have enough energy to move the bus any useful distance will be super heavy, and take up a lot of space which could be used for other purposes. In addition, they will take a very long time to charge, even with the fastest currently available charging methods. City buses drive relatively short distances and charging infrastructure can be built so they can charge at each end of their route, which means they can have smaller batteries. In cities air pollution from vehicles is also a bigger problem than on highways. Clearly, electric buses make a lot more sense in cities. Motor coaches may switch to something like hydrogen, natural gas, or biodiesel, because for them energy density is critical.

Electric coaches are great in warm weather and with a big diesel engine in place of electric motors.

The expensive of everything involved with electric is just insane. And most mechanics are not trained to deal with electric, that's what happens when you rush new technology to market.

This may be a dumb question... but why can't the battery be in a trailer hauled by the bus? When the bus stops to recharge along the route, a freshly charged trailer can be switched out (15 minutes or so) with the existing (depleted) trailer? I've wondered why that isn't feasible for long-haul routes?

@thesios

2 жыл бұрын

Or, rather than a trailer, just swap out the batteries. It seems to me that a motor coach, more than any other vehicle, lends itself to this possibility: open the bay door, slide out the uncharged battery pack, slide in a charged one, run a few checks, send the bus on the way. Then, the uncharged pack can be charged while the coach goes on it's merry way.

@counterfit5

2 жыл бұрын

@@thesios if it can be done with scooters, it can be done with coaches!

I know Toyota makes hydrogen vehicles and can be bought in California, Canada, and other countries. Perhaps that is something that might work better in regards to range and refueling? I'm sure one day electric motor coaches will have a huge range, but maybe a mix of electric and other cleaner fuel sources will be best. Just a thought

@donalddodson7365

2 жыл бұрын

And maybe as roofs covered with next generation of super efficient and productive solar panels along with next generation of batteries that can recharge at enormous rates might do it.

@notathome13

2 жыл бұрын

Yep Toyota along with major Japanese, Chinese and Koran realise hydrogen is the way to go for 70% of the world… the 70% of the world which has not got bulk power generation capabilities or grid connected. Electric works where you have bulk power, otherwise hybrid electric setups seem to be the goods

CORRECTION. THE GOVERNMENT IS TAKNG TAX PAYER MONEY TO PAY FOR SOMETHING MOST PEOPLE DON'T USE

I've seen a few of the tech company shuttles in the San Francisco Bay Area using the TDX 25 E while commuting to work. Also Genenteh shuttles are using renewable diesel to power their fleet.

Great review on a hot topic!

they been doing that for years in #Chattanooga Tennessee, they had Electric Buses there started there in the 90's ... over the years the tech got better, better.

I work for a bus company in the UK who operate electric buses, with regards to the batteries each one costs £60,000 and each bus has 4 of them. The batteries alone cost more than the price of a new diesel bus. As they are service (Line run) buses the majority of the funding was government grants. With regards to maintenance, the buses were prototypes when supplied and major maintenance is carried out by the manufacturer, who still own the chassis. Another point worth considering is recovery costs, when a vehicle suffers a serious failure, or simply a flat battery, onboard safety systems lock the drivetrain to prevent the vehicle moving therefore it cannot be towed, and must be recovered on low loader trucks. Another interesting point worth mentioning is they are promoted as "Green emission free vehicles" which is not enrirely true, as the heating system is diesel powered.

Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. I live in my 1967 GM TDH-4519 city transit bus full-time and I have been thinking about converting my bus into a full electric vehicle

This is the most comprehensive video on electric coach buses. Thank you for this wealth of information. Looking forward to another video from you when the technology finally catches up and we can have electric coach buses!

A pretty fair assessment. But, I would have liked to see you also address use of batteries for auxiliary functions rather than idling. There are multiple companies doing this as original or retrofit, and advertise that you can pre-cool or heat the bus without the engine. This would be a great benefit when in a city with anti-idling measures, or scenarios where your customers need to spend a lot of time on the bus while not in motion. Maybe you can do a follow-up video on these systems?

Hess are also into electric Bus systems They have a new tram style Bus. Its all good to go electric but when it comes to replace the batteries it just does not weigh up in price. Plus the production of parts is way more economically unsound compared to just running a Diesel engine. Batteries will fail and if one shorts you cant put the fire out with normal fire suppression systems. Its way to early to start having a full electric fleet. As he also stated working on these systems it will need a complete new service department. Keep to diesel until it has been proofed. Its a waist of money.

I live in Lancaster and take the electric commuter 80 miles to Los Angeles. I’m sure it’s a BYD being that the factory is local. And yes I’m sure LA county taxes paid for the purchase

its the same for lots of people for passenger cars who don't have a garage or driveway to charge a vehicle every night for example me i live in a apartment building so when i park my car in the lot there is no where to charge and im not going to go to a charging station and wait a few hours to chare my car when i can just get gas in a few minutes and be on my way to work

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

This will change when enough EV owners will only rent from apartment buildings which have the ability to charge their car conveniently and economically. Landlords will notice a demographic shift in who is willing to live in a building with no charging. It's already happening, even though many people who don't own a house are holding off on getting an EV, until they get a house, or charging at work, etc. People who have never plugged in a car, assume most charging is done at public charging stations. It is not.

Their range is said to be that long, but what if its stuck in traffic or weather on a turnpike/toll road

Don't feel bad James; Jet-A was $11.60/gallon today in Massachusetts.

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Wow 🥺😳

WAVE, Momentum dynamics, WiTricty could make wireless vehicle charging for these buses much more efficiently and convenient

I think once people started Towing trailers with their Tesla I think their eyes opened up a little bit. It wasn't that it lacked any power it had plenty of that the problem is how much power was left when they didn't arrive to their destination about 80 to 100 miles later. the only real solution for the bus industry is going to be something like a hybrid Prius power plant the same kind of transmission that's basically trouble-free and has the motor generator on board which is basically the same thing that you're large locomotive Freight engines use but in a slightly smaller package. the real problem is going to be HVAC. do electric vehicles do generate some heat it's not enough to keep entire cabin of people and of course do all the other necessary things on a bus that is required for operation. the largest bonus really would come from going up inclines and maintaining speed up hills. lack of having to worry about transmission downtime and such things that are just not needed in a typical diesel-powered rig. the other downside is storage space you're going to still require some of that storage space that you had set aside for passenger luggage so the bus owner also loses capacity on the bus since batteries take up more space than liquid fuel. the only practical way to do a hybrid bus while still maintaining just about all of the safety and also the passenger cargo space would be to have the battery located behind the bus on a trailer that way it also takes care of any safety concerns as the passengers and the battery are not in the same unit and it could be easily separated in the event of a fire or other electrical condition that may cause the passengers to get injured. theoretically for a Hybrid drivetrain unit you could get away with something like a Volkswagen TDI Diesel in a 4-cylinder form factor which would suffice for most City in transit applications as much of the time it's idling providing ample time to recharge a hybrid battery pack. that formula doesn't work for long-haul buses. Take into account the average Grey Hound Bus gets 6 MPG as its AVERAGE. And if we are talking about going up a hill? Hot day? Full bus with luggage and keeping up with posted speed limits with bells and whistle's on board? less than 2 MPG. With that in mind? Since the battery weight never goes down, the current required to move the same electric bus at just 75 to 50% charge goes up exponentially and therefore even if you put a large 500kw battery pack your estimated range would be less than 150 miles if you're staying in the batteries Goldilocks zone for longevity. the real kicker ? your electricity bill. Sure overall it seems like electricity is cheaper but in many cases especially in places like California your kilowatt usage will be closer to $0.35 per kilowatt. and that's if you actually have the capability to fast charge a 500 kilowatt battery pack to at least 90% of its full capacity within 3 to 4 hours. in order to even get it to 100% at the 500 kilowatt level you're actually using probably posed to 700 kW to just do it. you're still going to have to power the rest of the systems on the bus and on top of that you are going to be running the cooling system at Max Capacity for the pack during a fast charge which is going to be required if you want to stay in business. we haven't even got to the worst part yet. In order to make a 500kw battery for a bus depending if we could simply use the bottom space into a pack exactly like Tesla does on their cars well it's going to weigh close to 6,000 lb or more and we haven't even got to the structure that needs to be filled to support all that weight on the bottom. as the bus is going to be in a commercial application , extra weight is necessary for a quick removal of packs to change out bad or tired cells within the pack that have expired during use even within the first year. we're also talking voltages that would be around 1000 volts to two thousand volts to keep up with everything else on board has a standard pack of your 400 V just won't cut it. the eventual weight of all the necessary items needed to keep the battery hot or cold or in its offer to them temperature that back quickly balloons up to around 15,000 lbs. but the cherry on the cake that no one wants to talk about is who is going to be doing all this maintenance on these rigs? Because remember most men are simply leaving the workforce and the people that are coming into it well they're not really capable of moving these heavy packs by themselves are working on these rigs has it's not as simple or as well-known as a diesel truck. So now you have to go ahead and train people for at least the next 30 Years just to get caught up with the electrical vehicle technology that's needed to be installed in something like a tour bus.

Yes, I agree that for now, combustion engines are the way to go for long-distance motorcoach travel for the reasons you stated, not to mention that the batteries end up taking up a large portion of, or the entire, luggage bay. That said, fuel prices are continuing to rise. There's a bus charter company in my area, Sun Diego Charter Co., which for many years has run its coaches on B-20 fuel and may increase the biodiesel component in response to the high fuel prices: is that a viable option for the time being?

I just about freaked out while you were doing the TDX E...I thought I was having a stroke hearing beep beep beep...Whos backing up in my office? Lol, then I realized, youre recording in a bus...in a bus garage.

Okay, but that's not me on the left ^^ nice video !

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Oh. Man I'm so sorry. Please send me a picture of your self so I can properly introduce you on my next video. jwang@peoriacharter.com

Interesting stuff. Is the range/testing of these with a full load (pax/luggage)? How does that weight affect range? Also, seems to me that the roofs should be made out of or contain at least 2,000 watts of solar panels to extend range (during the day when sunny or partly sunny day).

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. I don't think the testing involves passengers. I'm sure a full load will drastically reduce the range. Yes I think it would help if the roof had solar panels

274km? Rofl. 3 hour charge time? So, let me get this straight, that range figure is 100% highway / freeway driving. So, with a 100km/h speed, your looking at 2.74 hours of driving, pull over to the side of the road because you are going to spend more time charging then driving. Okay, so even if it lasted 3 hours, that means you need double the amount of buses to perform the same job. And then you know, well, the range over time is going to decrease, so in the future, maybe the battery will last for 1.5 hours and still require 3 hours charge time. So, you need 3 buses to perform the same job as one. And that efficiency for stop start travel is surely going to go down a lot.

I am curious if the same technology used in wireless phone chargers could be used, on a much larger scale to charge and power coaches and trucks on the highway. Obviously a staggering amount of engineering would be required but could solve (or diminish) the range dilemma.

James, great video as always. I noticed those batteries ate up luggage space. Ummm, Vanhool is aware of that, yes? Also I love the point you made, "we don't have time in a 10 hr. day to be sitting and (fueling??) Is that the proper term for an electric vehicle?🤔🤣 3.5 hrs to charge vs. at most 15-20 to put diesel fuel in ours ??🤔

London uk used to have all-electric buses but they were thrown out for diesel

Thank you!

The part that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is free charging. I know those stations are out there (I understand they take forever to fully recharge electric cars), but I can't imagine that they'll last as EVs become more popular. Throw in commercial EVs, such as trucks and coaches, and you'll be paying to charge your batteries soon everywhere you go just as you now pay to fill up your fuel tank. Add in the fact the cycle life of a battery is way less than that of a fuel tank (that is, you can refill a battery far fewer times than a fuel tank), and that the capacity of rechargeable batteries decreases over time and use which doesn't really happen with fuel tanks, it would seem that EVs have some ways to go yet before they are as useful as conventionally fueled vehicles. Personally, i was hoping the fuel cell would become more popular and preferred, but there's a way to go with those, too, before they become practical.

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

The charge times quoted are using 130kW to 150kW average charging power from DC fast chargers. Those chargers are NOT free. Free Level 2 240V chargers at the mall/etc tend to be around 16 amps = under 4kW, so those buses would take a week to charge for free and would undoubtedly get kicked out for abusing the system before then. Having said that, I live where there are low electric rates in NH. Even the biggest battery mentioned (676kWh) would only cost me about $50 to $60 to charge at home for the 250ish miles of range. I'd probably plan on charging it at 48 amps, so 12kW for 2 days. That assumes that these buses even accept L2 charging, and only allow one charger, neither of which I'm not sure of. One of the bus descriptions said it had 3 battery packs. Maybe they allow a separate EVSE to charge each one, for all I know. I already have both 208V 3 phase and 240V split phase at home, so have more flexibility than most people about what loads I can run. Most power companies are happy to run an additional service if you need it, or even add another transformer to the pole for you.

Well the electric motors that power streetcars (trolleys) and subway trains are called traction motors, so the _traction_ pun was appropriate.

I love the trailer in 00:24 - 00:27😍

I wish I knew (facetiousness) why battery electric is promoted versus trolleybuses. Its MUCH lighter, better CG, and far better environmentally regarding batteries, since it has limited batteries since it doesnt need them. Trolleybuses also have much simpler electronics (some older types not even having any! Rheostats baby!). They do need wiring for the routes, and are somewhat fixed along them, but they are much cheaper long term with a life of 20-30 years. And best of all, both systems appeared without govt pushes, in a natural and organic way. Once subsidies end (and they will end) companies will be burdened with the extra cost of maintenace and other issues (disposing of batteries etc)

@counterfit5

2 жыл бұрын

Because people think the wires are ugly, and/or they don't want to pay for them. Trolleybusses with a 20mi battery range can serve an entire city.

@RipRoaringGarage

2 жыл бұрын

@@counterfit5 Then they pay for battery buses at 3-5 times the price. I think its a case of nimby more than anything. And yeah, the trolleybus can carry some batteries that can recharge off the network or breaking, but you get into more complex electronics, where as the cheaper models end up long term costing way less. They may consume maybe 20 percent more, but maintenance is very low (mostly drivedrain stuff, tires, brakes, bearings, oil), and there are no shelf life items, like the batteries, or just run of the mill electronics. A lot of the efficiency of the older units actually came from driving technique, which even though automatic (no trans), it was a skill on how and when to accelerate, knowing what phase of the rheostat you were in and so on. But then again, we also want AC, and soft cushions, leather, and so many other things in a bus, that are counter to the whole idea of why we even go with alternative fuels.

Best logical choice For Now is for highway coach based companies need to stay Diesel but one day electric vehicle technology will improve

James, I enjoy your content. After eighteen years, I am returning to being a motorcoach driver for Royal Excursion out of Fort Wayne Indiana. I was wondering what resources you would recommend to assist a driver who is sure to make plenty runs into Chicago?

Battery Packs should be made so they can be easily slid in and out so buses can be used for longer trips. they may still be a decade or so from being able to cross whole continents but a better exchange system and laws would make elctric transit more viable

@eshock9208

Жыл бұрын

Some how I dont forsee companies unifying on 1 or 2 standard batteries by themselves

Our public transit system has 12 buses and 2 or 3 of them always have a problem with them, we get that fixed then something else with the battery systems again something different again!

Here in Europe is the maximum speed for busses 100 km/h when the bus meets the requirements, if not, the maximum speed is just 80 km/h.

It is good to see electrical buses are doing well on the market. The weakest point still are the batteries. But there is hope: I just read about a new type of battery: a solid state battery, no fluids anymore, no dangerous chemical reactions, and a much better performance! Hope it does what they promise. And a reduction of charging time would be great!. Here in the Netherlands we have electrical buses with panto-graphs that are raised at the terminus stations and halfway stations against a big pole to charge. These are scheduled fixed route buses, max distance of the two terminus are 50 km (30 miles).

Now if they could design coaches with standard, easily swappable battery packs. Instead of waiting for the bus to charge, especially on long haul routes, have terminals/rest stops set up at intervals of roughly the distance of a battery charge. Bus pulls in, passengers disembark to stretch their legs or whatever, meanwhile a crew swaps the depleted ones for fresh which have been charging in banks onsite. Batteries get prepped for the next coach and you're conceivably on your way in under 15 minutes. I could see plug-ins being more useful for urban use.

$5 for diesel gas? It's $6 over here in Southern California for regular unleaded.

You did a super great job as always.! But you seem to have forgotten one thing that really sticks out in my mind. What happens when you get a long haul charter with a full paying group and that electric coach goes chug and stops. And there's no one that knows how to fix it. And you're stuck out in the middle of nowhere! That could be the most horrible thing in the world. Even worse than the ice cream cone of death. LOL once again you did a super job. Sorry for adding my two cents worth but I just had to add an extra charge! Lol

@tenblinkers3173

2 жыл бұрын

That's the thing with EVs...they don't break (nearly as often as ICE vehicles). No moving parts. The odds of you getting stranded are miniscule compared to driving an ICE.

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

To worry about an EV having a breakdown more often than a diesel, is silly. It's not as if the passengers on a broken diesel bus sit in their seats waiting for the engine to be fixed, they get put on another bus. Same here, except it will almost never be because of the motor or battery, just the usual bus stuff. I lived in the NYC area and went to college in Boston. While driving back and forth between them, I almost can't count the number of diesel buses I saw broken down on the heavily used NY-Boston route. The inside joke was that after seeing one "Fung Wah Bus" (cheapest way between the two cities, and notorious for poor maintenance, they eventually were shut down for safety violations) on fire at the side of the highway, you would forever count how many of those buses you saw on each trip, and take a good look to see that they were not not smoking or bursting into flames.

BYD has been making electric buses in the USA for many years.

Very interesting video. I love electric buses!

I have heard that in some countries in Europe have the electric built right into the road so their is no battery in the bus at all that you get all the electric you need through a wireless connection, but then you have a meter in the bus and the electric company needs to come out to read the meters on all of your buses, and then you pay the electric bill. I have also heard that you don't actually get any fuel savings because you pay higher prices for that electric. The real savings comes from maintenance, but if you have to replace the batteries then you have to figure out the cost of the battery based on the expected number of miles you'll get out of the battery. Even if you expect 100,000 miles out of the battery if the battery cost $100k (just a guess) then your adding $1 a mile that you need to just save up so you don't get blind sided buy a $100k repair bill. Maybe that's not a big deal if you have 50 passengers on the bus then it only adds 2 cents a mile per person, But it is something to consider in the long term.

Just found your site, very interesting, drove for Anzonio busses in Boston,aka brushill,mcginn,& service bus, and the orlando transit, lynx, for 21 years and have over 2 million without a chargable. First busses i drove we 1947 and 1954 gm, my favorite was the td4519's. Now retired looking for coach to restore and travel. A cousin, Robert was historian for u.b.o.a. & A.B.A and had 2 busses which traveled to all the conventions. Electric busses in service usually have layovers at the terminals and end of line, so rapid chargers could easily be place there to keep batteries up, like the silver line at the MBTA, here in Utah they use same busses but set up as hybrid for uvu shuttle.

..... In the very near future, I foresee those charging stations offering complete, fully charged, battery swapping services... For cars, trucks, busses etc... An owner would pay for the service, and upon arriving a crew would swap the batteries, and you'd be on your way... Then, they would fully service and recharge the depleted batteries, to make them ready for the next owner that uses the same type... This way, with this service, one would not need several hours of 'down time' as their batteries recharge.....

@EfficientRVer

2 жыл бұрын

I foresee you being wrong. It's a great idea technically, but totally unworkable financially. Think how ripped off you feel when you exchange your new/shiny propane grill tank with many years of service left in it, and get a rusty one that is expiring and not even refillable legally by the time you use it up. Everyone makes that mistake once, then either exchanges old tanks hoping to get new ones, or gets their specific new tank refilled rather than exchanged. Now imagine that we're not talking about a $30 propane tank, but a $15,000 car battery or $100,000 bus battery. NO business is doing to want to take responsibility for the swap, without the ability to appraise the two batteries and bill for the difference in value. How would you like your new $100K battery to be gone after you've operated your new bus for 4 hours, to find it replaced with a 10 year old battery worth $12,000? And how'd you like to get billed for $78,000 when on your return trip, you swap that hunk of junk in for a 6 month old battery worth $90,000? You know they're not going to pay you $88,000 on the first swap. In the best case, it will be like a never-ending series of buy/sell price spreads you are losing. In the worst case, you get ripped off, swapping a new battery for an old one that they won't even allow you to swap again. Nightmare! It would really only work for fleets able to own all the batteries being swapped in and out. Like, UPS and Amazon could do it on their delivery trucks, but a charter bus company passing through some random place would be crazy to do a swap they won't get back.

Saw a video where Van hool will sell you the bus for diesel bus price, BUT they will sell the batteries over the next 15 years based on the savings. They maintain the batteries and replace them if necessary. They dont say if you get a loaner or pick up drop off. Theres a you tube video out there. Thanks for the info, I've been curious about this.

London is now full of hybrid buses

James, as usual you are exactly on target. Someday these electric coaches will have the range to put diesel to shame. But we’re nowhere near that and the costs will not be offset by the idea not to buy fuel. The people pushing these seem to think electricity comes out of the wall for free. A longer distance charter could be ruined since as you said the AC takes a ton of electricity to power. What about winter trips and the heater going full blast? They may be fine for a day trip between Milwaukee and Chicago and even then I would be skeptical. Those electric school buses may work for around town but I would be skeptical for a trip out to a farm. “Ok kids. Farmer Johnson is gonna tow us to a charging center with his tractor. Let’s sing our Thank You song.” Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think so. This may look great on paper but what happens when these things get old? Could be ugly.

You have mentioned a couple of times that you are now co-owner. Is this recent? If so congratulations! That’s exciting.

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

Actually it happened back in November of 2018. But thank you for the congrats

@mafarnz

2 жыл бұрын

@@MotorcoachWorld oh wow I’m way out of the loop then! 🤣 That’s still really cool.

A couple other things that will probably add expenses. You know with the CDL they will probably require some kind of training or endorsement when the electric coached and trucks become widely used. Also not buying fuel they are going to have to create a new tax to compensate for that lost revenue. At home when I need something new I have been replacing with battery operated. Waiting on my lawnmower next

@counterfit5

2 жыл бұрын

The E-Go walk behind is a solid choice if you don't need a rider.

@mrj-charles6383

2 жыл бұрын

@@counterfit5 Yes that is what I am looking at and the Zero turn they have. Seems like the best one I have seen so far.

I know a company that got a truck with a 600kwh battery. And they found out a new one would cost around 150k dollars. That's on a truck worth 100k more then it's diesel counterpart.

Electric transit buses have been working fine for over 75 years in U.S. cities such as Dayton, OH, Philadelphia, PA, Boston, MA, San Francisco, CA and Seattle, WA (some even recharge as they go about carrying passengers).

Bus Nut

Thank you for doing a video on electric busses and the comparing them with traditional motor coaches. $500,000 for a new Prevost motor coach and at least $1,000,000 for a BEV bus. For cars, fueling costs are about 1/4 as expensive for a BEV with $0.10 Kw/hr home charging maybe a bit more now that fuel prices have almost dubbed. I think a motor coach needs to be able to comfortably cruse at 80 mph. What is the range of the BEV busses at a cruse of 80 mph? I would think a popular route of NYC DC could be run with BEV busses. That's 220 miles or so. They'd probably have to list at 300 miles range or a bit more to reliably do the route and have fast charging at each end. They could probably charge in an hour. These fast charges decrease battery life a bit. With cars they typically get their charge in the owners garage at a slow charge rate and only fast charge on road trips which are seldom. Electric school busses should work out well. The typical school bus is driven 70 miles a day. Electric school busses list out at 200 mile range which will allow them to slow charge over night for their typical use. This might rule out taking the bus home at night so the driver doesn't have to drive to get to the bus.

Do a vid on how the emergency windows work and how the alarms on them sound please!

@MotorcoachWorld

2 жыл бұрын

You got it