As a Dutch person i never thought of black Piet was a slave. I thought of them as people (who are coincidentally black) that like to help sinter Klaas and give gifts to people.

@coriaan

2 жыл бұрын

Same here.... 👌

@Vinz3ntR

2 жыл бұрын

To be honest, as a child I never thought he was a black man, let alone a slave. Piet is Piet, it's a shame some people don't understand it and spoiled it. On the other hand, no children's party should offend any other people from any race. So I'm totally fine with the way they do it now with the coal marks on the face. As said before, Piet is Piet whether he's black, white, Orange, yellow, the kids don't care. My Children never said anything when they suddenly changed Piet from black to white with coal marks. Usually it's the grown ups who want to cling to the old ways. It's all about the children z nothing else.

@DANCINGWITHTHEFAILS

2 жыл бұрын

Y'all are excusing a whole awful lot

@StofStuiver

2 жыл бұрын

They arent slaves. The blackface is an ancient fertitlity ritual that is still found all over Europe, up to Iran even.

@efecar5929

2 жыл бұрын

Coincidentally black his name is literally black Pete and he's working for a rich white man

07:42 no, black Pete is not a slave. Sinterklaas is a bishop and then became a saint (Sint means saint, his full name is Sint Nicholas). One of the reasons he became a saint because he freed several moorish/black slaves. That is why they are with him. A servant is not automatically a slave. As for the zwarte Piet discussion, I am somewhere in the middle. I understand the reluctance to give up zwarte piet as I also have fond memories from my childhood. I liked them more than Sinterklaas and wanted to be like zwarte piet. On the other hand I also understand the people who are against it. I think a lot of Dutch white people don’t understand how hurtful remarks can be. And also zwarte piet used to be a very stupid person with a Suriname/Antilles accent. I also think that for the children it does not matter what color zwarte piet has. There is only one practical problem, mostly in the smallest villagers. Sinterklaas and his Pieten are local people, with all black on their face they are not very recognizable. I have a friend who used to be zwarte piet and during the parade his children came to watch. He was their favorite Piet and they never recognized him. With only a bit of black on the faces, they are much more recognizable.

@EyesOfGehenna

2 жыл бұрын

Actually the character of Zwarte Piet was first introduced in 1850 by teacher Jan Schenkman (though he didn't name him) and it wasn't really commonplace until late 19th century that Sinterklaas had a sidekick called Zwarte Piet (Actually there was a time that he was known by many names before it settled on Zwarte Piet). For context, it was celebrated in the Netherlands as early as the 15th century with the putting of shoes. Jan Schenkman was also the first to have Sinterklaas originate from Spain. The actual Sint-Nicholaas came from Myra, which is in the current day Turkey. Saint Nicholas helped a man with 3 daughters because this man was very poor and couldn't get his daughters married off because of not being able to provide a dowry. So on 3 occasions Saint Nicholas threw a bag with coins through the poor man's window (this is the origin of the throwing of candy by Zwarte Piet). This way the poor man could afford a dowry for his 3 daughters so they could get married and not end up in prostitution. These 3 bags of money sometimes are historically represented with oranges or tangerines. This is also the reason why we have chocolate coins wrapped in gold, the coins also being representative of the bags of money. But the whole story about him being the Bishop of Spain and freeing slaves is essentially made up by Jan Schenkman. An urban myth if you will. So Zwarte Piet was created in the 19th century and of course this was in a time where slavery was still being abolished though the visuals of him were really settled on in the early 20th century. There still was a lot of prejudice against black people so from my point of view it's good that the visuals and traits got updated finally. It was also just one Piet originally. It wasn't until the 1930s that the number of Pieten increased. In 1924 for example the "intocht" was still with one Piet. In 1934 there were six. We actually have the Canadians to thank for the masses of Zwarte Pieten we have today. After WW2 ended they celebrated Sinterklaas with us with masses of Pieten. The size of the celebration being due to the war that was won so they wanted to celebrate big.

@arturobianco848

2 жыл бұрын

​@@EyesOfGehenna Good description 👍

@paragon1361

2 жыл бұрын

@@EyesOfGehenna And this man had servants which he bought out of slaverny. Since they were colored they were called black pete....

@valentijnrozeveld3773

2 жыл бұрын

@@paragon1361 No he didn't. Saint Nicholas was never in the Netherlands, he just was a patron Saint of merchants and sailors but he died long before the Netherlands was even a country and there was no transatlantic slave trade and Spain was still part of the Roman Empire.

@jacobwolters3476

2 жыл бұрын

@@valentijnrozeveld3773 Nobody said that

The part about "naughty children being send of to spain" is obviously just a story to tell children to get them to behave 😛 Bet it must have worked quite well though

@EricvanDorp007

2 жыл бұрын

It worked, I am an example

@jonasgraumans2034

2 жыл бұрын

It sure does

@emiel1976ep

2 жыл бұрын

Yes it works. There is not one child in the Netherlands that wants to go to terrible Spain, except in the summer. 😂😂

@aris8332

2 жыл бұрын

When the Mores ruled Spain they used to capture children in the south of France to make them slaves (invested I young people). They were brought in bags to Spain. Although it has nothing to do with the Saint, this historical fact might have been the element of the Zwarte Piet story.

@basanoniem9280

2 жыл бұрын

Ofcourse it worked. It´s how religion works as well. Heaven and hell etc. So you can make believers behave like your puppets.

I'm from Belgium and well we have Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet coming from Spain with the steamboat as well. He arrives in Antwerp. He only gives gifts to the kids who were nice during the last year. Zwarte Piet was the one who punishes the naughty kids. He could take you to Spain. Of course you have to place this in the right time lapse. I mean just as a black slave was seen as normal in America so many years ago. It was seen as normal to scare naughty kids in a way we nowadays think it is absolutely wrong. Nowadays, Zwarte Piet is the fun guy, he always get in trouble with Sinterklaas. He plays a lot, gives the kids lots of sweets and laughter. I remember putting my own shoe out a week before the 6th November. We in Belgium don't have the ginger cookies, we got speculoos and chocolate in the shape of Sinterklaas. It is what we found in our shoe. Don't forget the adults, they always get some sweets as well at work on the 6th December. Sinterklaas is not only a holiday for kids. Adults love it too😊

@lienbijs1205

2 жыл бұрын

We are Dutch and lived for a while in Brussels. I was been told that the celebration is in Belgium not on the 5th but on the 6th. So we prepared for " pakjesavond" in the evening of december 6 and not on the fifth like in the Netherlands, not knowing that Belgian children will find everything in and around their shoe in the morning of december 6. So that morning of december 6 my children found out at school that Sinterklaas visited everybody from their class but not them. They were very sad and worried that Sinterklaas didn't know they moved to Belgium or that they have been naughty....

@alv2518

2 жыл бұрын

@@lienbijs1205 ooh yes, he is leaving the 6th in the evening. But then again, it is how you can explain it to the kids. My mum always made sure Sinterklaas came on a Saturday morning. So we had a whole wknd to play with our new toys. If the 6th was on a Monday he came Saturday before. If the 6th was on a Thursday or Friday he came the Saturday after. But we knew he would come... Even after the 6th. I guess of course in your case, not knowing it, the kids were not prepared either. Poor kids, it must have been very sad hearing whole day long what everyone got and that they had nothing... I can imagine their smiles later when they realize Sinterklaas did not forget them. Sinterklaas has some differences in wallonia as well. Sinterklaas is a Saint and comes from heaven in wallonia. He's not coming from Spain... He has a donkey and not a horse in wallonia... Being in Brussels having the two cultures mixed must have been troubling you as parents as well to have all the correct info... At the end, all ends well and the kids were happy I guess... So mission accomplished for Sinterklaas anyway😉 btw, don't forget your shoe tonight... Have a nice sinterklaasfeest this year... 👟🍫

@noahsaurus5106

2 жыл бұрын

‘White adults’

@bartmeijer3128

2 жыл бұрын

@@noahsaurus5106 I know enough black adults who like it. I don't mind if it changes. But don't say every black person hates it. Or that every white person who likes it is racist. That would make you the racist.

@Jari-95

2 жыл бұрын

Hebben jullie serieus geen pepernoten in België??

The name Santa Claus is actually coming from the name Sinterklaas😁

@timhuisman321

2 жыл бұрын

Actually from Saint Nicolaas from turkey

@jonasgraumans2034

2 жыл бұрын

@@timhuisman321 that is sinterklaas, santa claus is what came from coca cola taking inspiration from Dutch colonists or immigrants

@D1sturb3d.gh0u1

2 жыл бұрын

@@timhuisman321 sinterklaas is a nickname for sint nicolaas, dutch people know him as both

@jonasgraumans2034

2 жыл бұрын

@@dutch96 he’s literally referred as saint Nicolaas in a massive bunch of songs, so no

@ArataIG

2 жыл бұрын

@@timhuisman321 mhm

I know a lot of Dutch folks are very much into tradition and those who are ( as I am as well) never saw Black Pete as a racist kinda thing. Even as a child it never occured to me that Pete was portraied as a black person. It was all too clear this was a guy or girl with too black make up on...oh yeah, we did eat the pepernoten right off the floor...people weren't that affraid of getting sick ( and never did) I do miss the old feeling of suspense and being a bit affraid of St. Nicolas, as he always carried a huge book that informed him if I was a good boy that year and didn't have to go to Spain, or finding a baggie of salt in my shoe, that only naughty kids would get, instead of a treat. Good old times!

@tsukihiyo6857

8 ай бұрын

Ik ben echt tering blij dat ik bij die paradens niet van de vloer at

Its a difficult subject.. its history/story isnt racist. Sinterklaas free the slaves, and they wanted to stick around and help the old man, in return they get free living and such.

@valentijnrozeveld3773

2 жыл бұрын

He didn't free slaves, that's a myth.

@jasper46985

2 жыл бұрын

@@valentijnrozeveld3773 you think the holyday is based on the true story?? It isnt.

@valentijnrozeveld3773

2 жыл бұрын

@@jasper46985 I didn't say that but Saint Nicholas was a real man though but he lived in the Byzantine Empire 2000 years ago where Turkey now is. The holiday is Saint Nicholas combined with old pagans believes similar to krampus. Just saying that the freed slave story is a myth.

@jasper46985

2 жыл бұрын

@@valentijnrozeveld3773 Yeah, i know. And i only know that that mythe is used in the tale of the holyday.

@valentijnrozeveld3773

2 жыл бұрын

@@jasper46985 Not among educated people. There is no story that say anything about him freeing slaves. Only people who argue that the Holiday is not racist will come up with the excuse "But he freed slaves" while i do agree that it isn't racist people should not make stuff up to make it sound better.

8:58 - This blue bird, called Pino, and the yellow Big Bird who Americans know, are actually canonically two different birds. They've even met before

@ginaspel7818

2 жыл бұрын

If I remember correctly when Sesamestreet went to other country’s they all had to have there own version of Big Bird. We have Bleu Bird named Pino and I believe Germany has a big brown…. bear or something.

@philipvanbrienen3437

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutly correct, canonically they are cousins

@nagranoth_

2 жыл бұрын

Whut? I know for sure I saw an American movie where Big Bird (the yellow one) was captured, put in cage, painted blue and forced to sing sad songs... like "I'm a blue bird" both literally being blue and sad. I always figured that's where Pino came from.

@Nemesis-pe7mw

Жыл бұрын

@@nagranoth_ Lol, that's awesome!

I was always told that Zwarte Piet was black-faced because he went down chimneys and had his face covered in soot. It was only until MUCH later that i got told what their origins were. Why can't we just keep it that way? Remember the partially bad origins the characters came from, and explain to kids that their face is covered in soot? Blackface is bad, but Zwarte Piet has long since lost it's blackface origins. It's only because of people digging it up again, claiming that's STILL what is going on, that it's suddenly bad now. Also obligatory black =/= bad. It's just a color. (or technically absence of color)

@iemand2612

2 жыл бұрын

I mean, it is blackface due to the lipstick and golden earrings

@tieman3790

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah it isnt as much about the face paint. its the combination with other africanized facial features

@MissMoontree

2 жыл бұрын

I think we can have the black paint, just without the afro's. Golden earrings were only encountered in several cities by 2000 and were nonexistend on Dutch tv Piets. Red lips are also not needed (but they were never overdrawn in my communities). A lot of the commentary I heard at the start of the discussion was about a type of Piet that I had never encountered. So that was why the anti Piet felt disingenuous to me at that time. They were fighting to change something that had already changed from the thing they wanted to change.

@gabbermaikel

2 жыл бұрын

@@iemand2612 wel over here i have never seen pieten with golden earrings, except for some very rare ones. Those are the ones that normally kind of wear that stuff when they are not playing their part in the story... As for the red lips. Nope not been here for the 25 years i can remember. They only the black going on, that was the only color they used. Yes the lips wil come out harder without doing anything to them, but that is just how it is when you add a more contrasting color. But they didnt add any lipstick to it over here, and if they did, again it would be people that normally wear that lipstick and they wouldnt over do it or make the lips drawn bigger or whatever... So what they are protesting is something that has been changed over 25 years ago. But because they started protesting it, now there are people that want to pull it back to that point.... If they had just let it be the piet would have been changed even more to get along with time, but because of the protests they now want to freez the look and write down how he should look and make it a protected thing. So what they did was make the change stop in a lot of places instead of letting it get on.

@jannetteberends8730

2 жыл бұрын

Black people don’t feel good with black faced Peter as the SERVANT of a white man. And it costs us nothing to change the total black in some soot patches. Zwarte Piet was originally a demon, who operated in same time as st. Klaas. In some places in other Germanic countries they operate together. Krampus from Germany = zwarte piet. Zwarte Pietje being the nickname of the devil in the Netherlands.

My stepbrothers are from Nigeria and they both absolutely love the Sinterklaas celebration. They even go out as Black Pete, no paint needed haha. People need to stop being so overly sensitive, if you look long enough you'll find racism and insults in everything and everywhere.

@Stefan_245

2 жыл бұрын

I agree

@JannekeBruines

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you. It has made me so sad that something that used to make me so happy as a child is so offensive to people. To read these words from you means the world to me :)

@Ed-er1ni

2 жыл бұрын

@@JannekeBruines It's still offensive. Most people understand this and that's why zwarte piet changed in this liberal country... we grow and develop. It didn't change the party itself at all. How cool is that.

@jaywu_chakra9919

2 жыл бұрын

That's why colonization was so easily done!

@Etira.

Жыл бұрын

@@Ed-er1ni no

Santaclaus comes from Sinterklaas . SEE THE PAINTING OF THE DUTCH MASTER *JAN STEEN* Sinterklaas feest (16 hundreds). B.t.w. Sinterklaas also is being celebrated in the Dutch caraïbians. Black people there ALSO PAINT themselves black for zwarte Piet....

@h1e2n3d4r5i6k7

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, and none of the people in the carabians have any problem with Piet being black, they say Piet is supposed to be black.

@lindaraterink6451

2 жыл бұрын

I have even seen examples where they paint a black man white to portray Sinterklaas.

@MrAfusensi

2 жыл бұрын

Such a weak argument. Of course Dutch Antilles still has sinterklaas, they have many Dutch inhibitans and tourists. Look at how fast Suriname got rid of it. Directly after independence.

@MrAfusensi

2 жыл бұрын

@@patrickvanliere8690 stop lying, you don't know what you're talking about. Suriname celebrates children's day (kinderdag), NOT sinterklaas

@qravenp

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrAfusensi the caribians is bigger than just suriname

The blackface here is mostly a logical thing as most towns cant really figure out how to make the pieten unrecognisable without painting over their face Funny thing a black guy here decided to paint his face white for the occasion as a joke he does that every year here

@MLWJ1993

2 жыл бұрын

Now that's a genius response! If only more people did that instead of endlessly complaining about stuff...

@noahsaurus5106

2 жыл бұрын

@@MLWJ1993 oh please, it’s always easier to respond if your not the victim. We shouldn’t play nice with racists. That’s not complaining, that’s defending

@MLWJ1993

2 жыл бұрын

@@noahsaurus5106 You're easy to talk when it's not your cultural ceremony that's getting demolished for nothing, how about we forbid your festivities the way they are, because belittling small people & promoting fat people during Christmas is absolutely not okay! It's the same bullshit. At least do research before calling someone racist... 😅

@bhesseling9949

2 жыл бұрын

@@noahsaurus5106 every holiday is racist if you try to make it racist, black Pete is just easier. But that doesn't mean it's anymore racist than say thanksgiving. The difference is that thanksgiving is based on racist history and tried to wash it away, while zwarte piet originated as a freed (and paid) black worker but gained a racist undertone when other cultures were exposed to it

@pietjewaanman3506

2 жыл бұрын

@@noahsaurus5106 it is also very easy to act as victim. Just cry for attention. Black Pete isnt racist. If racism doesnt exist then black Pete wouldn't be a problem. Getting rid of black pete isnt even solving a bit of racism. It is just a method for black people to feel like they matter by taking away something beautiful

Black Pete is originally a page. That's a priviledged position. In some Flemish history he was even a semi-Saint. So no, his clothes are not a slave uniform. It resembles 16th century simpler fashion. Today the Swiss Guard at the Vatican still wear somewhat similar clothes, including the collar, depending on the situation. I resisted but I guess the years of protests and fuss wore me out and I am okay now with Sootpete. Though it ruins a number of songs. I find it truly sad it became such a big deal because of people that don't know the backstory, or refuse to accept it. I've had it dismissed as a bad white man's excuse.

@hotpie8564

2 жыл бұрын

you forgot to mention they also sometimes paint sinterklaas white

@MrMezmerized

2 жыл бұрын

@@hotpie8564I felt no need. Saint Nicholas was Greek so there's nothing weird about him being depicted as white. And not sometimes but always. Well except perhaps in the Antilles.

@Wolfeur

2 жыл бұрын

I very much dislike the "de-blacking" of Pete for the simple fact that I'm annoyed at the ever-going exportation of politics from the US. The backlash against Black Pete is really just an extension of America's history with blackface.

@qravenp

2 жыл бұрын

Actually his clothes are the type pnly the nobles and richest traders were allowed to wear. Like blue and purple. No commoner at the time was allowed or could afford such clothing

@qravenp

2 жыл бұрын

@@Wolfeur it's what americans would call cultural appropriation actually. Black pete is an archetype THAT is why he's black and has to remain black. We'll change up the story a bit like we did in the past but piet is black, period.

The “taking you to spain in a bag” thing is the same like when in the us you get coal in your stocking, when you didn’t behave right.. Santa claus is created from sinterklaas, and coca cola made that like it is today. Great video, always nice to see other people react to our culture 😜 Have nice memories from sinterklaas & zwarte piet. Back then, the controverse did not exist, at least as far as i’m concerned. Kids did not notice it at least.

@j.hensbergen6022

2 жыл бұрын

I work with young children every day. They don't see Zwarte Piet as adults do. I asked my students (10yo) what they thought of the Zwarte Piet-discussion. They didn't understand. They think Zwarte Piet is good. They like him, they love him. They bring the presents, wrap the presents (goes wrong, always, until the last day) en are in charge of the logistics. Even my Somalian, Eritrean and Ethiopian love him. They think 'black' is from the sut in the chimneys, as what we tell the children nowadays. They don't have a negative connotation with Zwarte Piet, they don't know about the 'former slavestatus'. And their parents neither.

@wilco8729

2 жыл бұрын

@@j.hensbergen6022 slaves is not for this time anymore. Black piets are no longer slaves in this time. People change and so is black Piet. It must be staying black as it whas. They are no longer slaves. They where back in that time. But not now.

The idea of kidnapping naughty kids and "beating them with the roe" is a remnant from another European tradition called Krampus, which pre-dates current Sinterklaas. In parts of Germany and Austria, Saint Nicholas doesn't have black pete as a helper, but instead evil demons with horns kidnapping and beating naughty kids. Parts of Sinterklaas lore is based on Krampusnacht.

@jabanan

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah we have a similar thing in Czechia, we call Claus, Mikuláš. And then we have our Krampus style fairytale character called Čert, which is a sort of lesser demon a servant of the devil. Very similar to Krampus, he also puts naughty kids into a bag. And theres a friendly companion and that's a angel

Actually big bird(USA) / Pino(NL) is blue in the Netherlands because when the creators sold the tv rights of sesame street to the Netherlands, it was forbidden to look exactly the same as the USA version. Now you know. Great videos! No judgement whatsoever about traditions or so. Keep up the good work!

@qravenp

2 жыл бұрын

In the show it was once explained that big bird and pino are cousins

So, this is going to be a long comment, sorry for that. The TLDR version is: its not USA blackface. The usa had the blackface minstrel, which was a blatant racist figure, making openly joke about how stupid blacks where etc. His main recognizable feature: his face was painted black, aka 'the blackface'. For clarity: I, and everybody in the Netherlands, are appalled by this. Note that USA blackface had its peak around 1920. So, is Zwarte Piet (black Pete) a blackface? Yes: he has his face painted black. But no: he has literally NOTHING to do with the usa blackface minstrel. Nothing. We had sinterklaas and zwarte piet even before 1600. When the usa did not even exist. Its origins are complex, but has nothing to do with making blacks look stupid. Just because it looks like something racist in YOUR culture, does not make it racist in OUR culture, if it LOOKS the same. Take for instance the swastika. If you go to India, and discover a swastika on a temple, that people are very proud off. But the swastika is the sign of the nazies. We 'all' know that. So: break that temple down? force the indian people to remove that symbol, and say sorry to us? No. The swastika on those temples outdate the nazies by millenia. It has NOTHING to do with nazies. It symbolises 'time' (a year, to be exact, or 'the seasons', because if you draw the big dipper just above the horizon each season: and add them up, you get the swastika). 'but it reminds people of the nazies'. So what. They are not nazi symbols, if they are on a temple. Asking: DEMANDING from the indians to break down their temples: is insane. Just because it LOOKS like an sign somebody evil used: does not make that symbol evil in itself. Another example: the KKK is a racist organization. They wear the typical white hood. So, if you go to Spain, and see a procession of people all dressed in KKK outfit (the white hoods), does that mean that village is racist? No! The KKK stole the outfits: FROM THEM. They have been doing these processions with the white hood centuries before the KKK thought they looked cool. It has literally nothing to do with the KKK. Again: just because it LOOKS like something racist in YOUR culture: does not mean it IS when you spot something that LOOKS the same: in our culture. Same with the black-faced black Pete: it has literally nothing to do with your USA blackface minstrels. Nothing. Some people now DEMAND the Dutch to mutilate their culture. Because it looks like something racist in USA culture. Nope. Aint gonna happen. Black Pete: is black. All the songs about Sinterklaas and Black Pete mention them as such. Its not pink pete. Its not green pete. Its black pete. Zwarte Piet is more loved by the children: then Sinterklaas himself. He is a POSITIVE role model for blacks. We ALL ... LOVE him. We already mutilated our Sinterklaas image (he used to be a bishop, with the cross everywhere, that annoyed some non-christians, so they removed the crosses!). But they want MORE. They want our entire sinterklaas culture RUINED. Note: that this is the nr one event for little children. They put their shoes out days in advance. Small children: aged 3 to 8, stand in line at our canals to see sinterklaas and his black petes arrive. And what is there as well? Angry people; throwing stones, swearing 'racist' at the children: ruining their experience of joy, that they have waited all year for. Thats not ok. We will not let our culture be destroyed BY THREATS. Sinterklaas is unique for the Netherlands (most other countries celebrate Christmass Man as present giver). We DONT want our culture destroyed by ignorant yanks. Half of the Netherlands (notably around Amsterdam) say: 'well, if it annoys people, we should perhaps change it'. The other half says: 'fuck this, we aint doing it, black pete is black'.

@dennismeurs9736

2 жыл бұрын

"We DONT want our culture destroyed by ignorant yanks." Yankee is waarschijnlijk van oorsprong de scheldnaam die de Britse kolonisten gaven aan de inwoners van de Nederlandse kolonie Nieuw-Nederland. Gesteld wordt dat het woord is ontstaan uit de Nederlandse naam Jan-Kees. Andere mogelijke oorsprongen worden gezocht in Jan-Kaas, een benaming die sloeg op het feit dat de Nederlandse kolonisten bekend stonden om hun kaas. Een derde mogelijkheid is dat het woord is afgeleid van Janneke, de verkleinvorm van Jan. De Nederlandse J en Engelse Y worden op dezelfde manier uitgesproken als ze in een woord gebruikt worden, dus niet als losse letter..

@baskoning9896

2 жыл бұрын

@@dennismeurs9736 Jup. Zelf dacht ik dat het misschien ook van 'Jan-Kees' af kon komen.

@j.hensbergen6022

2 жыл бұрын

Hear, hear!

@LJBSullivan

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe at that time of year the airlines could put a pamphlet with the ticket explaining this so the people of the Netherlands don't have to put up with your shit. They said servant not slave. Don't say slave it's not the same. If I'm a servant of the Lord I'm not a slave. Pete is a servant to St. Nicholas, and he was a bishop.

@Ronny_van_Gerwen

2 жыл бұрын

AMEN

Sigh ... That a cartoon has a color doesn't mean it's "racist". That's a very American association. Mickey Mouse is black, he is not racist? And Ronald McDonald has a white painted face. Racist? What matters is the intent. Zwarte Piet has no racist intention. And Zwarte Piet is not even an African (in the 17th century he was supposed to depict a Spanish Arab). If as an American (or other) you feel offended, then that is is actually something that happens between your own ears. Don't project the problems of your own society onto others ...

@sherrifmarty00

2 жыл бұрын

Duidelijk dat je geen gekleurde mensen in je sociale circuit hebt. Iets wat uiteraard totaal niet erg is, maar een je reactie af te lezen is het duidelijk dat niemand ooit persoonlijke discomfort omtrent zwarte piet met je gedeeld heeft en dat je zelf niet het inlevingsvermogen hebt om je denkbeeld aan te passen.

@Sanquinity

2 жыл бұрын

@@sherrifmarty00 Het hele "blackface is always bad no matter the context" gedoe is amerikaans. Niet onze schuld dat die cultuur nu hier ook door onze strot wordt geforceerd. Het idee achter zwarte piet is allang niet meer de rasistische blackface, en als mensen dat niet kunnen begrijpen en er een probleem van willen maken is dan HUN probleem.

'knecht' or 'servant' was a PAID position, and has nothing to do with slaves. in fact the actual person sinterklaas was based on would give escaped slaves, mainly moors, a job in order to protect them.

@wade5761

2 жыл бұрын

Ooh.. so those darn Moores escaped, yet the good harted Christians didn't lock them up but gave them a highly paid job. There is no racism in the Netherlands.

@dawatcherz

2 жыл бұрын

@@wade5761 i'm sorry history offends you.

9:00 Big Bird is blue because it's not Big Bird, it's Pino. I don't know about America, but in the Netherlands it's said that Pino and Big Bird are cousins.

Every year we have this debate. Some people find it discriminating and others like the tradition and dont want others to touch their traditions. Its so difficult because yes, they are black and people are in some way harmed by this but if you have ever celebrated it you will know that there is nothing racist about for the children.

@yasminenatural6842

2 жыл бұрын

Children will still enjoy sinterklaas if zwarte piet is Just Piet and not zwart. Also the kind of racist reactions some people give if you dare to question zwarte piet!

@jasper46985

2 жыл бұрын

@@yasminenatural6842 Yeah, but that is the same with anti zwarte piet activists

@Henkkaassouffle

2 жыл бұрын

@@yasminenatural6842 yes they will but i also get the point of people that want to keep their tradition in the way it is. Its just like killing the wales on the Faroër islands or a bull arena in Spain. Outside the nation people hate it but it is their tradition so who are we to judge them? Traditions are not always nice and some people wont see it as theirs and there is nothing wrong with it. It doesn’t matter to the children but that isnt the point because for them it is alle about presents but that doesn’t mean people kan have a opinion about it.

@moonheems3558

2 жыл бұрын

@@yasminenatural6842 it's a double situation. I've also seen black people playing zwarte Piet. Enough black people don't find it racism. But others do. Where do you draw the line for how much 1 group have to change their ways to accommodate other people.

@DutchDread

2 жыл бұрын

People aren't harmed by it, only people who choose to be harmed, the problem is with them, not Black Pete, they're being harmed by their own close mindedness.

Respect naar alle Nederlanders die deze man even bijpraten

The cookies (pepernoten) can be on the floor, but parents often use plastic bags and put them inside the shoes, it's more hygenic but it depends on the cleaning in the house. The bags also often contain candy we call "schuimpjes". They are, in my opinion, the best part of the mix, there are soft and hard ones, you'll love the soft ones, they're the best. The "schuimpjes" are basically little candies that feel like you're biting into a mars bar but they're pure sugar, no chocolate. The surprises are for older people (age 10 - death) who don't believe in sinterklaas anymore cause if you're older, it's less fun to go to the arrival of sinterklaas and to get presents if you know its all made up and your parents are buying the presents. The celebration with the family is always a good time tho so you'll always celebrate, even when your kids are older then 18. You'll buy presents for eachother, write poems, make surprises, eat dinner, its awesome. The sinterklaas journal IS really important as they said in the video. Kids will talk about it with their friends, discuss the things that happend in the last episode, EVERY kid watches it, every day. The sack thing was a thing yes, but it's been replaced by the "roe". One of the sinterklaas songs says: Wie zoet is krijgt lekkers, wie stout is de roe. it means: Those who are sweet get candy and those who are naughty get the roe (The roe is a bundle of branches, you can compare it with the coal you get for christmas).

"its the prefered way to traumatize dutch children" i mean thats a way to put it i gues l edit: yes its not overreaction, the pepernoten really lay on the floor

6:00 IM DIEING "OVER EXAGGERATION XDDD when I was lil the black Pete's and Sinterklaas came bursting into class jumping on the tables and throwing pepernoten en schuimpjes flying EVERYWHERE and all the kids get on da floorrr hoping to get to most of em, and usually keeping them for a few days to snack em away xDDD you just reminded me of my happiest days as a kid hahaha

6:00 trust me, they're best on the floor. my mom used to put them in my shoes, under the radiator, so they'd be all warm and soggy and it was actually awful

@pheniks0

2 жыл бұрын

i remember being in school when zwarte piet came around, opened the door and threw strooigoed (mix of hard candy, and "ginger snaps" pepernoten) all over the room we even had to duck once in a while (only the naughty ones were targeted tho, hehe) you can't get any better than that, so much fun

@larswillems9886

Жыл бұрын

My mom always put a bag of pepernoten in my shoe (in the original package). It is a bit discusting from the floor

Santa can't have his slaves anymore. The slaves can't be little anymore, it's offensive for small people. Nor can he use his deer anymore, it's animal abuse.

@NB-gk5rx

2 жыл бұрын

Haha that's a comment I've made many times too. But in the end I am in the middle. I think a lot of Dutch people feel offended because they have enjoyed it so much as a child and now they basically get told it has been wrong. For the Dutch it's an innocent happening for the children, let's keep it innocent and don't hurt other people.

@OdetteVanW

2 жыл бұрын

Both Santa Claus en Sinterklaas feasts should be canceled. Old men that put little children they don't know on their lap. In real life they'd be seen as sex preditors. Of course this comment is meant as sarcasm.

@janee7995

2 жыл бұрын

@@OdetteVanW not to mention they both keep slaves, on in cold and one in hot environments. Both of them commit animal cruelty. 😉

@OdetteVanW

2 жыл бұрын

@@janee7995 Binnenkort de intocht, begint weer die hele discussie... zucht

Zwarte piet , please dont get in to that topic as it creates a lot of anger between native dutch and belgians and imigrants that have no clue what the history or tradition behind Saint Nicolaas is . Saint Nicolaas is been celebrated since pagan times . until christianity came outlawed pagan rituals , so they turned to a saint . Every thing in the festivity is symbolic and has a purpose . And this is where a lot of the mis understanding comes from. .

@theGoogol

2 жыл бұрын

I'm a native brown Dutch guy and I don''t understand what all the fuzz is about. As a kid I was perfectly happy celebrating with Zwarte Pieten and so I always thought it was about the kids.

@marcusfranconium3392

2 жыл бұрын

@@theGoogol Same here , but its not just the children that celebrate it , suprisingly many dutch ships celebrate it as well. as sint nicolaas is also patron saints of sailors.

@iemand2612

2 жыл бұрын

no it creates anger between racists and non-racists. As a native Dutch person, many generations back, I see black Pete as a racist caricature. All my other white friends think this as well

@marcusfranconium3392

2 жыл бұрын

@@iemand2612Than i would say your a fool. Complaining about a tradition where foreigners come in to your house bring gifts and every one is sad that they leave. Something some of the ones that are complaining about should take that as an example. And people like you have a big mouth about these kinds of minor things. As there is no shooting of black people by police . There is no lynching of gay people . And most of the intolarance of other peoples skin colour sexaul orientation, and relgion is brought by the ones that come to this country and are not native to this country . And the best part is they have a big mouth about these little things , and keep shouting about slavery and history but dont do shit about modern slavery , open discrimination in other countries or presecution of minorities. SO i think you and your friends should take a hard look at your self . Before making idiotic statements. As tollerance goes in both ways not just one.

@iemand2612

2 жыл бұрын

@@marcusfranconium3392 okay, we can disagree if you want to. But modern day black Pete is literally modelled after a caricature of a black man in the 1800s. That’s just a fact. Maybe you shouldn’t be so triggered by a change in traditions. Black Pete was once a raven. A few decades ago there was only one black Pete accompanying st. Nicholas. Traditions always change when people don’t like a thing anymore. Making Sinterklaas a holiday for all children is great. You have a big mouth about this minor thing!!

I absolutely loved it as a kid, thought it was a amzing celebration still feel like we should keep our trandition the same with the blackface since the history is not racist and that the world is almost like a slowflake. Not to mention the fact that i feel like the majority of the native dutch folks still support the tradition and that this statistic very much is wrong since you cannot ask the entire population about their opinion just make a estimation.

As a kid i grew up with Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet, i loved it! The presents, the whole atmosphere around it, it was like an second birthday. When my doughter was almost 2 years we took her to the 'intocht' and she screamed her head of when she saw Sinterklaas. Zwarte Piet she liked (he had treats). Today i'm feeling sad because of all the comotion about this tadition.

@andyt8216

2 жыл бұрын

It is sad that the Netherlands has become as PC and mad as here in the UK :(

8:50 my reaction when i got older growing up on the dutch version, finding out there is this strange series in america with a Yellow bird instead of blue bird. u can imagine my surprise...

It was never concidered racist, black people were also dressed up as black pete, everything was peaceful and happy and it was all about the children until a ignorant American came to the Netherlands and started a uproar about this being racist to black people, then it all changed and many people followed. 🤦🏻‍♀️

My great grandparents grew up hearing Sinterklaas was a wealthy man who freed many slaves and offered them work in his toy and product manufacturing company in spain. They where called Zwartepiet and the story became that they delivered the toys to children. But my grandparents and parents grew up hearing that Zwartepiet where simply covered in chimney soot. When I was little, I could watch the Zwartepiet Chanel online. Basically, Zwartepiet would "vlog" year round and tell us stories etc. I obviously grew up hearing they where covered in Soot bc of the chimneys, so I asked my parents why the Zwartepiet didn't take a shower when they got home. Bc if I'm watching their vlogs in the summer then it's obviously not December which is when they deliver presents. THAT created the discussion in my home about wether Zwartepiet is actually covered in soot or are they POC? Recently people call them Roetveegpiet/Roetpiet as it actually means Soot instead of black. So, I think the old way actually was racist and this new way is a better way. A way to keep the tradition but modernizing it so that everyone can enjoy it.

Another national hero that has fallen due to the cancel culture. ✌🏻

Santa Claus - Sinter Klaas. You're welcome.

Sinterklaas's formal title is "Bishop of Myra" - a town in Turkey, and therefor he is a part of the clergy, hence his outfit. As far as I know he was sanctified by the church for his many good deeds. As a member of the church he was not allowed to own slaves but it was okay to employ Africans as (paid) servants. Unfortunately nowadays there's good money to be made from professional victim-hood, so they twist the historical story in the most negative way to get their brownie-points, and never shall historical facts get in the way.

I personally never had a problem with Zwarte Piet. Then again, I'm born and raised Dutch person and I've known them ever since childhood. I've never associated Zwarte Piet with slavery, or any sort of negativity. They're a source of happiness and are probably more popular than Sinterklaas. Sinterklaas is just some boring old dude riding a horse and waving at kids, reading names from a book to see who's good and who's bad. Zwarte Piet on the other hand is much more involved with the kids and are the ones handing out candy and delivering presents, aka children's paradise, basically. I don't think I ever saw them as black vs white people or whatever you wish to call it. They were just the most epic human beings on the planet because they were giving candy and presents, that's really all they ever were to me. I can see why people associate them with slavery, and while there's many stories and explanations as to why this wouldn't be true, there's also a chance that it might be. History is known to get warped over time. The Pieten we see around this holiday however are not slaves and aren't treated as such either. I used to be really against changing Zwarte Piet, especially because they tried all sorts of weird things, like creating 'rainbow Petes' and whatever, giving their faces all the colors of the rainbow instead, which really wasn't well received by the Dutch population... but I will admit that it's mostly because it's our tradition. Why would people from other countries come over to us and tell us that we're not allowed to have our traditions? It'd be like saying that Americans can't have Thanksgiving because it's insensitive to Native Americans who had to give up their land and lives in order for the Muricans to even have something to be thankful for. But that'd invoke the wrath of many Americans, I imagine. So why would the Dutch really be any different? Quite honestly I kind of gave up though... if people who don't understand our culture and traditions wish to fuck with our celebrations... well, whatever, really... luckily I'm no longer at an age where Piet's strange changes in color will strike me as odd.

@bonsai67

2 жыл бұрын

Well, it is not the people that come from other countries that make an issue about this. It is those who are born here. You know, Dutch people.

@mellchiril

2 жыл бұрын

@@bonsai67 true, people here do it too

Sinterklaas is our tradition for the kids! Nothing to do with racism in the eyes of a kid. The adults nowadays make the problems around this tradition.

@franklinclips5713

Жыл бұрын

Netherlands Are Racist Asf

@Electriccoolaid

Жыл бұрын

True

@Spiritombgamer

Жыл бұрын

True

@tasi0.0

Жыл бұрын

Het mag mischien voor witte kinderen zijn maar als je dat niet bent zie je al snel de probleem

@D.H.1987

Жыл бұрын

@@tasi0.0 de probleem?

The bisschop Sinterķlaas came originally from Turkey, Mira.

When i was growing up candy was putt on the floor most of the times, sometimes was in a plastic baggy in the shoe, but majority next to shoe, i guess they cleaned the floor around it, plus clean floor less smelly as sweaty shoes :P Also kids don't give a damn where candy has been long as it goes into their mouth

The resistance originally stemmed from a change made as the first step: multicolour pete. To many people that was just too much and it closed the minds of many. In more recent years people saw the soot thing as a positive change, except for the hardcore holdouts. A common saying I heard a lot back then went something like "great, so now we have people dressed up as skittles".

@MissMoontree

2 жыл бұрын

Rainbow Piet is a horror that we should never talk about. The worst one I saw was stroopwafel, looked as if someone put the face in the waffle toaster D:

@therealdutchidiot

2 жыл бұрын

@@MissMoontree Oh god I remember.

@qravenp

2 жыл бұрын

Actually in bijlmer where i'm from that pissed of the black kids aswell because the "real" pete is black

4:15 Cardinal. He's got Cardinal robes on. These days they just wear the skullcap, but from what I recall, this is what a full-bling Cardinal used to look like. 4:45 Don't try to trace the history of ritual. It's literal milennia of leaps of logic. 6:00 Dutch floors. No shoes. Like Japan. 7:30 The history of Zwarte Piet is: (pre-Sinterklaas): Demon. (early Sinterklaas) Moorish misschief-maker, servant or slave, brought from Spain. (Modern Sinterklaas) Clowns and sassy butlers more pitch-black oompa loompa than any race. 8:10 Remember: No African import labour in Europe.

The best and the most beautiful time of the year for Adults and children. SINTERKLAAS and Zwarte Piet has nothing to do with discrimination. It's a tradition every year. It's really for the kids and a little bit for the elderly😇 In Volendam comes the Illuminated BOOT 🚢 in the evening 🌃 over the water it IJSSELMEER so spectacular with fireworks 🎇 that's FANTASTIC. So nice to see WOW. Our entire DIKE is full of children and their parents and are HAPPY that SINTERKLAAS with the PIETJES are back. Greetings from VOLENDAM THE NETHERLANDS 🇳🇱

haha.."thats a Santa Clause Pope right there" LOL... Anyways, it is nice to hear how you pronounce Dutch words just like "intocht" or "Groningen" in another video.😛 Continue the videos about the Netherlands, I like to watch them! Cheers from the Netherlands

Not everyone in the netherlands does pakjesavond, we did it the same as in belgium, on the eve of the 5th of december we would put our shoe in front of the fireplace and the next morning it would be filled with presents and candy, and i`m from the north of the Netherlands. Santa Claus is derived of Sinterklaas, the dutch colonists over in the us back in the day would celebrate Sinterklaas, the British colonists celebrated father christmas, so they put both holidays together and mover it from 5 december to 25 december and voila Santa Claus was born. thats that story in a nutshell.

@matthiasdierckx2769

2 жыл бұрын

In belguim its 6 december we where first

Zwarte Piet in my mind and as a child has always been a cool badass. Children look up to Zwarte Piet as a hero actually. It was the best time in the winter for kids. Woke people made zwarte piet a racist issue. And now everyone is hating about it. A friendly tradition is 'made' evil. It's sad. But I know everything changes and I will deal with it. If it's gone, it's gone. I have my personal peacefully true and real memories about this tradition were no racism ever was involved.

What annoys me is that its usually people with a darker skin that come from another country that try to change a tradition that is ours, leave our traditions alone, it has nothing to do with racism, sinterklaas is for kids, kids are not born racist, they do not see the difference...

@bonsai67

2 жыл бұрын

You know that is bullshit.

@metalvideos1961

2 жыл бұрын

@@bonsai67 no it's not

@bonsai67

2 жыл бұрын

@@metalvideos1961 Yes, it is.

@metalvideos1961

2 жыл бұрын

@@bonsai67 nope not at all

@bonsai67

2 жыл бұрын

@@metalvideos1961 By all means, please do explain what is not racist about white people painting their faces black and making fun of them. Go on, I'll wait.

4:05 ehh yeah the reason he looks like a mix of Santa and the pope is because 1. he's a holy man and was given the title Saint and is therefor Saint Nicholas. 2. Santa Claus is originally Saint Nicholas, just celebrated on a different day as I guess the pilgrims were busy and so put it together with Christmas. So yeah he looks like Santa because he is Santa. Or should I say Santa is Sinterklaas.

Here's my 2 cents: fighting actual racism is hard, so people fight a harmless tradition like Black Pete.

The real story is that sinterklaas or by his real name Saint Nicolaas ... Saint because the pope made him a holy man for his good work after his dead... He lived by a harbour and saw all the black slaves (Moors) everyday on the ships. He was very rich and so he bought the slaves and gave them their freedom. But the slaves were so thankfull that they stood by him and worked for him. As free men.

@arturobianco848

2 жыл бұрын

must be a differnt one then we use to refere to as myra is in turkeye. But i guess there could be more then one and they just got intermingled in the story. Even the storys about the one in Myra have different explanations.

@Monique-bx6ro

2 жыл бұрын

@@arturobianco848 Myra is indeed in Turkey. In fact its a city lying at the mediterrian sea. And yes Myra has a harbour. But you know I tell the story as I know it and you tell it as you know it and someone else does it somewhat different again and the real true lies mostley somewhere in between.

@arturobianco848

2 жыл бұрын

@@Monique-bx6ro Like i said there are so maney stories i'm not saying which one comes closest to the truth if any do.

Who is older? Sinterklaas or zwarte piet? Maybe it is good to have some direction origin of these mythological characters... In the North of the Netherlands, now North-Holland, Friesland , Groningen and the Northern parts of Germany live(d) the Frisians and other Germanic tribes. They were believers of the Nordic Mythology. In Scandinavia as well. They celebrated their ancesters and or a firtility rite and the main character was Wodan /Odin the uppergod. Old drawings portray him as an older man with long white hair and a long white beard. Dressed in a cape. He rode a grey, eight-legged horse named Sleipnir through the sky and over the roofs. He had a spear in his hand. He was accompanied by two black ravens, named Huginn and Muninn representing memory and thought of the uppergod. The ravens were all year under the population and registered and reported bad behaviour to the uppergod. During the festivities the ravens threw nuts and grain through the chimney. The uppergod was known to take his enemies and bad behaving people in a jute bag to Walhalla. Also bad behaving kids were punished by the ravens with a bunch of twigs, the roe. Even today on the Dutch Wadden island Terschelling young women are hit by black figures with a bunch of twiggs on the ass to make them more firtile. During the festivities a lot of alcohol was used to get in the right "spiritual" mood. Then came the Roman empire and the pagan Nordic Mythology rites were forbidden. The Frisians started fights with the Romans about that. To get peace back again, the Roman Church created a replacement rite, Saint Nicolas. He was portrayed as the bisshop of Myra in Greece/Turkey, in those days part of the East Roman Empire. All kind of pagan customs were replaced by Roman figures. Thanking for the harvest became Sint Maarten, Wodan in the firtility rite and the wild hunt (honoring ancesters), became Sinterklaas, the return of the light, the winter solstice, the birth of the new year became Christmas with still the same green tree. Later the Netherlands were under Spanish rule during the 80 years war. From that moment on Saint Nicolas came from Spain and his black helpers became Moorisch noblemen. Still a lot of kids were frightened by these mythological figures and were affraid to go in the bag. A Dutch schoolteacher wrote the Saint Nicolas story down and made the helpers more friendly and more human. In the 1970's descendants of in the former colony Surinam enslaved people with a black skin came to the Netherlands. Some unknowing people and some children named some of these people zwarte Piet (black Pete), what, off course, irritated the people with the black skin. Still today the black Moorish looking black helpers of Sinterklaas wear a large feather on their hats... this symbol means it are still the mythological birds of Wodan. Piet in Dutch language is another word for bird. The yellow Canary birds are called "Kanarie piet" in Dutch and a "Bonte Piet" is an oystercatcher bird. So "zwarte piet" literally means black bird. The black figures of today still have the same function as what they had when they were Wodans black ravens, memory and moral of Sinterklaas. They are part of Sinterklaas and help him, as helpers, NOT as servants. Even quite an amount of alcohol was used by the men portraying Sinterklaas till the 1980's. Sinterklaas was offered strong liquer at every house visit he made and at the end of the evening some were totally drunk. I hope we are able to save this Sinterklaas tradition by changing the zwarte piet back to a more recognisable black mythological raven, where nobody has any problem with. In central Europe there are also Sinterklaas rites with black helpers, but those helpers more look like "black devils" in the Czech Republic or are Krampus in Austria and there nobody even thinks it are slaves. By the way, the black face is essential... as a kid of 4 years old I didn't recognise my dad as Sinterklaas nor my niece as zwarte piet :-) when they visited our house and gave me presents. Google on the names Odin, Wodan, Sleipnir, Huginn and Muninn and draw your own conclusions, have fun.

St. Nicolas or Sinterklaas was a true bishop living many centuries ago. Also he was actually from Constantinople, now Turkey and Black pete was never a slave. The thing is that as I said before he lived many centuries ago and his helpers were never slaves and anyway its all history so not just a Dutch tradition. It all really happened.

They forgot the line from the song "wie zoet is krijgt lekkers, wie stout is de roe", meaning who's been nice gets a treat and who's been naughty gets beaten with a stick. Born and raised in the Netherlands, sinterklaas is indeed the best time of the year. Months before you start looking forward to the presents and candy and the funny gymnastic zwarte pieten, you start making wishlists, watch the sinterklaas journaal on tv and day by day is more exciting. We never, EVER, saw zwarte piet as a bad thing, it only made sense because how is sinterklaas himself going up on the rooftops and doing all the work, he's old. The zwartepieten always looked so happy it never once crossed my mind that they might not want to do it/are slaves. Btw look up the history behind sinterklaas, it's celebrated in sooo many countries in so many different ways. There's a reason sint (er) klaas sounds so familiar so familiar to santa clause. Saint Nicholas in both stories, same guy, different spelling. Yours is just now from the northpole and ours from Spain via Greece and Turkey depending on what origin story you read.

Bigbird in the Netherlands isn't even called bigbird, His name in the Netherlands is Pino

Another guy from the Netherlands here. Sinterklaas isn't a racist event. Community's like BLM and Woke only see people painting their faces black and directly refer it to their interpretation of slavery. Most of the complaining people don't even know or undertand what this event is about. I've tryed talk with these people and they don't even wanna know what i've to say. I've tryed to explain the long history of Sinterklaas and black piet. For this chat its to long and complicated to explain. But from my perspective. From 2013, the complaining people used social media to make a huge scene about it to get a little bit of spotlight. Its all about not thinking but follow. Fun Fact. Another Folklore about Sinterklaas and Black Piet is one they share in Austria, Hongary, Slovania, Croatia, Italy and Czech-Republiek about that Black Piet were Demons from the Alpregion. They also used a scary story to keep children well behaved the entire year to reward them with sweet goods.

Zwarte Piet was used as a boogieman in the past. He had his big bag that he'd put the bad kids into back to Spain and he carried a "roe" which was a bundle of twigs to beat bad kids with. So you'd have the saint and the devil. Because if you look at old history people have been painting themselves black for this holiday time for a really long way back time before Saint Nickolas was around, like an old grey bearded god who caught a devil back then. That's not to say Zwarte Piet was seen as a devil, not at all but you can see where the look came from. He became a black page because it looked good. But he was never described as bad or a slave, the dutch word is also used for the baker's helper/apprentice and the butcher's helper. So pretty normal. He was also a figure of some power and authority depending on which Piet it is. The head Piet reminds Sinterklaas of everything and keeps things under control. As Sinterklaas is an old man. You have Piets for everything, wrapping, poems, like smurfs. Just name something and you can have a piet for it. As a kid I thought they were black because they came from Spain and it was very sunny there. We obviously do not see them as real people though, they are like elves. I think it's very sad they are seen so negatively due to the U.S history with slavery. They lok so great and anonymous in full black make up. No kid would ever get a negative idea of black people from growing up Zwarte Piet but you know how kids can be cruel so if they can bully other kids with calling them that they will.

@DyslecticAttack

2 жыл бұрын

This indeed. As children growing up in the Netherlands we love black Pete, he's not some poor slave serving under a colonialist white old man like some Americans love to say, but he's a guy who has the job of making children happy. Being a Pete is honorable, since it requires a lot of skill and the main payoff is making children happy (as a child you know they're doing it for that reason and you don't really wonder "how much money do they make annually for it"). It has a long long history, with a lot of lesser sides among them, but then again, we're talking about roots that have slowly changed and adapted for many hundreds of years. Some of the roots might be racist (because what roots that date back that much don't have those aspects?), but the modern representation has no negative connotations from the perspective of children, or well, it didn't before people started to yell that people and children were racist for enjoying the parades. I don't hate the change to move away from the more blackface look, it's a good move towards a more fun celebration for all even if it hurts to change tradition. But I very much hate the discussion, since it's mainly about blame and it never really was about solutions. Hell, the first "solution" was rainbow Petes, which were just extremely random, poorly executed, and a great example of how to get people to hate change. And even now, the discussion is more about "how racist the Dutch are for celebrating blackface", or about "celebrating slavery and colonialism" instead of about "how can we make this children's holiday the most fun for everyone". And well, in my personal experience it very much tends to put people off, and seed resistance, when your main argument is that an entire culture and country is "in the wrong" and "MUST" change.

@Iflie

2 жыл бұрын

@@DyslecticAttack Yeah they are not seeing any difference between using black make up and making fun of black people. It's just dumb. I like the black make up because it looks way better than the random "soot" as I think a Piet should be anonymous, maybe masks would work if they don't want full other colors. I grew up with short black curly hair as a kid and brown skin, in a rural area , I even had the round earrings. If Zwarte Piet made anyone racist I'd be the first to know about it. But kids love Zwarte Piet, they respect them and don't make fun of them, they are even a bit intimidated by them so even if they thought that was a black person, they'd never get a negative view of them. Racism in the Netherlands in my view is cultural and has nothing to do with skintone, we like the exotic so looking different can actually be of interest. The issue is when people speak very poor dutch and behave out of the social norm, then you can be seen as part of a group that does so and can run into trouble. Basically kids don't look at a black kid and are racist because the kid is black, they do because the kid may have a heavy accent and be misbehaving in class, making them come across as not smart. Kids are cruel about things like that. I spoke dutch without an accent and was studious and had an imagination. So I didn't have the same issues, I was seen as an individual.

@DyslecticAttack

2 жыл бұрын

@@Iflie very true, though where I grew up it wasn't so much the accent (though surely kids will mock it at some point before growing accustomed), it's more behavior. And in some regards that is the lasting prejudice for most people. And I myself have a few groups of people where I anticipate it can be an unpleasant experience, but that very much doesn't mean you have to treat them differently at all. I very much dislike arrogance and pride that easily create hostility/friction (can't really explain it a lot better sadly, since this doesn't quite cover it), and from personal experience (from living in small cities) that arrogance and pride was more present in certain groups. One was 2nd+ generation immigrants from certain herritages, and the other is bible belt religious kids (mainly from teenage/adolescent men). It's a prejudice that can be based on race in some regards, but I mainly dislike the bahavior of specifically the vocal parts of the 2nd+ generations of those heritages. Those with a stronger accent tend to be more open and friendly in my person experience, while those without an accent (or not having it, but trying to sound like they do) would be peacocks that seemed to have the need to prove themselves. Those 1st generation I've met were generally humble, but with pride in the right places, and kind, but not pushovers, all in all just great people.

@Iflie

2 жыл бұрын

@@DyslecticAttack I think the ones related to the Zwarte Piet discussion in particular can be seen as part of a group in a negative way because of how they speak, it's not like any foreign accent or farmer dialect like we have round these parts. It just sounds like they don't know grammar. When they speak normal dutch the issues are immediately gone. But things like misbehaving, not following the rules of the games other kids are playing at the schoolyard, which hyperactive kids sometimes do, Well that's a bit of a social death sentence among kids. And kids are not nice about that. They do that to kids of any color though but it seems some less advantaged kids fall into that trap more. Social rules are everything among your peers and if you are raised with kids who didn't have much parental oversight either on the street, chances of you fitting in at school are low. While I was born here my parents come from former colonies and are very mixed and I grew up in a single mother household as my parents divorced early I was raised with strict rules and followed them at school too. I was polite to the parents as so they let their kids play with me. Any kid that gets raised well has every chance here of a discrimination free life. But certain immigrant groups let specifically the boys raise eachother on the street and are not as involved with them as generally dutch parents are and they can land intro trouble. Street rules are nothing like the ones needed to fit in.

Sinterklaas is a very old tradition. It's already mentioned in the later middle ages. There's a painting by Jan Steen (famous Dutch painter) dating from 1665. It's called Sinterklaasavond or something like that (don't remember the exact name) and it shows Sinterklaas exists for a long time already and hasn't changed fundamentally

@arturobianco848

2 жыл бұрын

yup but pete is littlebit younger and not part of the original story. I do like him though even when he's black.

@dutchman7623

2 жыл бұрын

@@arturobianco848 The pagan origins of Saint Nicolas go back to Wodan, his white (8 legged) horse, and his black raven. Later his counter companion was a man, also black with horns like the devil. Rewards for the good, punishment for the bad. The Dutch word 'knecht' has an English word with the same origin: 'knight'. Which is an assistant of a lord.

@arturobianco848

2 жыл бұрын

@@dutchman7623 I was hoping to limit it to the sint part and not the original myth on wich it sort of based on thats confusing enough 😉.

@dutchman7623

2 жыл бұрын

@@arturobianco848 ... it's complicated... Obliviate!

Because more cities banned black pete and only allowed soot petes. People with a dark or black skin are not allowed to play soot petes for children, because their skin is to dark. So Soot petes actually created some problems.

You can judge it but your Santa Claus came from Sinterklaas.

I'm feeling very old 😭😂(but not really), because when I was a believer in Sinterklaas way back, we still had a chimney in the living room with a stove to heat the room. So on the evening of the 5th of december us children sat in front of the stove (and chimney) washed and in our nighties singing Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet songs hoping for a lot of presents. Then we went to bed trying to fall asleep so it would be morning soon. Because in the morning the big dinnertable would be piled up with presents for the whole family, most of course for the children. Of course we were awake very early. It was so exciting to open the livingroomdoor and see all those nicely rapped presents. The parents were busy all evening to rap them or did that before and hid them. We had the day off from school I remember, to fully enjoy the day unrapping and trying out new toys and other things, like some new clothes. Fond memories of those days. We didn't have pakjesavond (package night) like they do now, wich is also very nice. But for me that piled up table in the morning after Zwarte Piet "shoved the presents down the chimney" the night before 🎁💝🎁, nothing can top that. 💝

Always was the very best time of the year for me, as a kid, growing up in the Netherlands. And the servants were, as the story goes, actually freed slaves, mores (and the mores are... ;) whom stayed to help this Dutch, catholic Bishop that was operating in what we now call Spain...

By the time I was 4 or 5 I knew it was all set up. Every time we watched Sinterklaas on TV, he looked different, he spoke with a different accent and I kept asking my parents why he sounded like my uncle whenever he visited us. That didn't mean I didn't appreciate the presents and all the sweets though. I also never associated Zwarte Piet with any race. We were taught he's black from crawling through the chimneys and when we dressed up like him, we used to burn corks from wine bottles to make our faces black with it. No fake red lips or whatever to make us look like caricature of a black person. Besides, "black" people have always looked brown to me, very different from the black soot that comes out of a chimney or from a cork, so as a child I never even made that connection. I actually find it quite sad that adults are turning this wonderful tradition for children into a racial thing. I can understand that some people might get offended when seeing Zwarte Piet for the first time when they come from a racist environment. But in my opinion that just means they don't understand the whole concept of Sinterklaas.

Unfortunatly many things the guy is saying is just not true. Lets start with the burlap sack: Packages are not neceseraly left outside in a burlap sack for the kids to go and get. What my parents usually did is open up a window upstairs in their bedroom en left a trail of a few packages on the bed and a few on the floor. They left the window open to make us think it was Zwarte Piet or even Sinterklaas himself has entered the house and dropped a few packages. Once we (the kids) started to investigate upstairs thats when my parents put the majority of packages in the living room. nicely stacked. After they finished they start yelling to us to come downstairs quickly because Zwarte Piet has just come over to deliver a pile of packages along with candy in the living room, and they acted like they were totally amazed. You can imagine what of an exiting evenings this must have been for us as a kid? About Zwarte Piet: Zwarte Piet was a helper not a servant nor a slave. Unfortunatly Zwarte Piet gets called servent or even slave which is total nonsence. He is a well respected helper and childrens friend. The only moment kids may be scared of him is when they might have been naughty. But by far most parents rarely tell their kids Zwarte Piet will catch them in a bag and take them to Spain if they have been naughty. If kids have commited minor things its never a reason to tell your kids they might get taken away to Spain. I think it's unfortunate that this Dutch tradition has taken a driffrent road thanks to mostly leftist sensitive types of people. It's cancel culture that destroys beautiful old traditions. It's mostly adult people that destroy this childrens tradition, even if it's about children and they dont care about his skincolor. It's so sad. but we all know cancel cuture is ongoing and fed and spread by the media everywhere in the world :( Please be critical about what they try to convince you of is my lesson, please take this from me. And try to find out the origin of Zwarte Piet by reading official historic books and notes instead of leftist cancel culture snowflake documentaries.

@huisbaasbob3709

2 жыл бұрын

Addition please search this video by a YT channel called PlanB: 7 Bewijzen dat Zwarte Piet bedacht is als anti-slavernij actie. It will be eye opening.

The pre ww2 Saint Nicolas used to be accompanied by only 1 servant, Pete, or Black Pete. It was not until 1945 that when a US Navy ship that was stationed at Amsterdam decided to arrange a huge Sinterklaas party for the children of Amsterdam that they decided; Ok, the Captain has a huge beard so he can play St. Nicolas, but why not have more than one Pete and have every sailor be a Black Pete, having all sailors go "blackface" for the Entry parade. From then on there would be more than one Pete. The appearance of Pete also changed over the years, from someone obviously made black with soot and shoe polish to the more discriminating appearance later where they suddenly started to get an accent early 80's and change of wigs, earrings and bigger red lips, to suddenly having dark brown skin instead of soot black.

Did you know that the Dutch brought Sinterklaas to the USA, and that it is what Christmas with Santaklaus is today? As I understood how it went, when dutch people went to live in the USA and work there, out of tradition, they celebrated Sinterklaas and a few USA coworkers liked the idea and started to join it. This grew out to become a local thing in that company until someone from the Coca Cola company got hold of it and turned the festival into a commercial thing. They obviously couldn't fully copy Sinterklaas, but the similarities are striking. Sinterklaas, Santa klaus, Both have a red/white colorscheme with red being the dominant color, although Sinterklaas uses religion gold color as well. We have the boots we set, this was replaced with the big socks, and we have our parade which was what Coca Cola used as big sponsor opportunity for marketing. This is also how the gifts got introduced to an otherwise religious holiday. They wanted to do it in december but could not get a national holiday for this, so it was merged with Christmas.

If you are somehow able to watch the movie: Sint, its like; a Dutch "Santa slay", but better. Very entertaining, I think you would enjoy it. This is a very twisted holiday with many biases, many erasures and lies over the ages this has been a tradition. Which has changed more than ones. And many Dutch people won't even agree with these facts and roots, because then they actually would agree with the fact this is not the best holiday for children and educating them. But it fits in fine with capitalism and consumerism. Also Black Pete throws the candy on the floor for the children to collect and eat, we have a couple of cultural traditions that have children eating of the floor. But hey, guess that's normal. "Zand/vuil schuurt de maag" is a saying in Dutch. A little bit of dirt is good for the stomach, and your immune system. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Also the traditions are national, local, and family - there can be many small differences. I got candy every day but just one or a few, not the whole shoe/boot full. Also as soon as I reached the age of no longer believing Sint was factual/literal and real, (I was the youngest), we had a family meeting on what holiday we wanted to celebrate more; Christmas or Sinterklaas, we went for Kerstmis (Christmas). Also the poem is not traditionally a roast of the person, it should give you clues about the present, and/or how to open it. Shure you can poke a little fun with the receiver of the gift. That is also often what the "wrapping" can be about. And thus it shows how tradition and cultures change little by little. Roasting is a more modern concept. Not a Christian - like this tradition is. I found the narrative of the video very one-sided and biased, but then this will also be the reply back to me. It was black face, and the discussion is still ongoing if this is racist or not. Also a black person still has more prejudice and racism against him than a Arabic person, Monkey sound during soccer games - as being racist - are not rare. It took very long protesting before we got the roet veeg piet. Also it was made impossible to address the problems of the festivity outside the period of Sinterklaas, people didn't want to hear, and the demonstrations during Sinterklaas only got the response why are you doing this to the kids. Do it outside of this period, and then it was no longer relevant and they didn't want to discuss. The government only spoke out after things stared to "get out of hand". And they actually didn't want to do anything but they could not deny this was black face! So they didn't want to talk about it or acknowledge the racist aspects of the tradition. How often children are used as a shield for keeping things on a wrong track - to keep traditions going. Bride kidnapping also used to be a tradition once - we also left these traditions behind because they interfere with human rights. Like anti-LGBTI+ promotion laws some countries have. Think of the children. But not realizing its the adults that keep the systems in place even broken and discriminatory ones. Feeding it to the next generation, and so on, and so on. Yes they were slaves, but more like a serf. So since they got a little bit of money for their service, they technically are no longer "slaves", but practically they are still the same. So just because I gave you a penny for your months services and work you technically where no slave anymore - but "knecht" / lackey. You had room and board, like how they changed the narrative of Egyptian pyramid builders being workers and not slaves. Actually black Pete is used to be, Krampus and the devil. And in the south miners also got called black Pete's and not in a loving way. There is this card game Zwarte Pieten - or also known as Pesten (Teasing/Bullying) So it only shows how the Zwarte Piet was not this fun loving entity they now want to make him out to be. And why was it this person and not the "pope" as you noted, the Bishop. Rule and power and history is why! So its roots are very racist and tie in with our VOC history and slavery. Also St. Nick is the patron of Amsterdam, Prostitution and Piracy/Naval/Marines (Zeevaart) so it is less Child friendly as many want to be aware off. Like stated - taking children back to Spain in the sack - to work in the factory to make the toys for the children, if you are naughty. And the "roe" was not even mentioned - you would get a bundle of sticks in you shoe and not candy. This bundle of twigs traditionally was for whipping and flogging. So yes a very child orientated and friendly festivity. Very light and not dark and twisted at all. [sarcasm] Also Who is Nick - they say it actually was a Bishop of Mira (Turkey) not Spain. But it might also be Pope Nicolas V, and is linked to the slave trade. Hush this is a secret. The tradition of the chocolate gold coins and the story of the girls that had no wedding treasure so that could not wed, that got visited one night by the Saint and the next morning they had gold coins in their shoes/staking so they could marry. Which is also why he is a patron of prostitution. But hey the candies and presents, its for the kids, not thinking about neuro linguistic programming and systemic racism. Because black Pete can't be nothing more than a black/African person - nappy hair, big lips, golden earing's etc. Black because of the chimney - are you kidding me - for real - I outgrew my child logic long ago, but it is such a fun tradition... candy and gifts. Candy and sugar and the slave-trade are linked, and for gift giving you need a financial/economical surplus, also created by; slavery. De sober and Dutch food - shows we (the people/plebs) are not the rich and powerful that wrote history. Not saying we didn't have families with that kind of wealth and social status - look at the history of our independence and why Holland vs the Netherlands confusion exists - Slavery and Holland but it is history of the Netherlands as a collective over time. Also as Dutch we are told to be proud of our VOC history! So it goes along in that vain. Traditionally the name of the horse was Americo - not kidding but over time the horse has died and now it is "o zo snel" just to wash the tradition a little bit more. Also it is a Catholic tradition. Also Santa Clause is derived from Sinterklaas and its roots actually go back to pre Christianized Europe and was a Pagan holiday. Many cultures had seasonal festivities, their lives are centered around the sun, and light vs darkness. In Germanic tradition St Nick is actually linked to Wodan/Odin. That are the facts about the history of this holiday.

I always put my shoe in front of the radiator and I would get a small box of Lego instead of candy. I wasn't complaining because I loved Lego.

We didn't have black face like the USA did back in the day, atleast if we did, nobody knows about it I geuss lol. Where they would act black as comedy or something like that. So we never thought of it as bad.

The kids leave something in their shoe for Sinterklaas' horse. Usually a carrot or hay and some sugar. The parents would tell the kids that Sinterklaas would take them back to Spain, which kept them well behaved for like a month.

"If you have kids" it's the most important event of the year. IF you don't then it is Kings day, formerly known as Queensday, but we have a king now. They didn't cancel Sinterklaas due toe Covid, they only canceled the televised parade. Sometimes people hire a 'hulp-SInteklaas', or the neighbour with a fake beard, but they didn't have much work in the Covid years as well. Still families celebrated Sinterklaas in lockdown in their own homes.

The funny thing is, many people are complaining about Zwarte Piet, that it's racism, while Sinterklaas is from pre-christian times, way before the first contact between Europeans and Africans was made. But yeah... most traditions like these were "recycled" by the Christian religion after northern Europe was converted into Christianity. Originally it was about a druid and his demons, they were black because of the fire they emerged from. Btw, the Dutch copy of bigbird is blue, specifically because the American creators of Sesamestreet wanted it. They didn't want the bigbird copies to look too much like the original big bird.

Not all kids are happy. The brown ones with curls often get teased and called names. many of them dread the Sinterklaas period every year. If Sinterklaas is for everyone it should really be for everyone. Piet can stay but there is no reason why he should have red lips, curls and big earrings. And btw, Piet changed several times over the centuries (was not even black at first!!) so all this talking about keeping tradition is nonsense. Make him black FROM soot , not black AS soot, adjust his suit and everybody can be happy. And it’s even part of the tradition that Piet changes appearance. I don’t understand why this should be so difficult or emotional.

As a kid I loved Zwarte Piet, they threw candies and did acrobatic things. Sinterklaas was a bit scary sometimes. Next on the cancel list : Carnaval. No dressing up as cowboys, Indians, Mexicans, Chinese etc. Everyone will only allowed to be a farmer, or a clown. By the way, a shoe also should contain a carrot, for the horse.

"Looks like a mix of santaclaus and the pope" IM CYING HAHAHAH

NOT slaves, they were rescued by Sinterklaas from Slavery, and he paid them for their services. In the eighties (And nowadays still) Zwarte piet was (is) the fun slightly mischievous guy and Sinterklaas the strict one with a thunderous voice. As a child I loved Zwarte piet he was sweet, and fun, Sinterklaas was really scary.

NOTE: The American Santa Claus is a derivative of Sinterklaas, made up by the Coca Cola company. Santa Claus has elfs, Sinterklaas has Zwarte Piet Santa Claus has reindeer, Sinterklaas has a steamboat and a white horse Santa Claus is dressed in red, Sinterklaas is dressed in red (although more visibly affiliated with the Catholic Church) Santa Claus can fly in his sled, Sinterklaas can ride his horse over rooftops etc. In fact, the Pilgrims, Quakers and other protestant groups already took Sinterklaas to the USA, afte which the image of Sinterklaas (Santa Claus) gradually changed independently from Sinterklaas. Oh, and the pronunciation used to be virtually identical... Furthermore: in the old days Sinterklaas' outfit was GREEN, but somewhere down the line it changed into red. And then about Zwarte Piet, there are 2 main stories going around: 1) As the narrator says, black Pete or Zwarte Piet got their black face from soot 2) The other stories tells about Moorish (=black/African) child slaves which were rescued from slave traders by Sinterklaas, and he gave them a paid job as his helpers.

Sinterklaas is so amazing if you're a child. And no child thought about racism they love the Piet

Sinterklaas journaal is pretty much the only reason it's viewed as a racist story, it wasn't when I was jounger 10 years ago. (Yes, only so short). The show makes it look like de zwarte piet is stupid but originally they are just normal people who are properly respected.

The Lore zwarte Piet was first of as a slave but later changed to the person who'd come down the chimnee to open the door from the inside for sinterklaas, thus explains why he isn't fully black depicted but with a black craton over the face look

Hands off Zwarte Piet !! They were freed slaves by the Bishop of Myra. And they were so thankful, they stayed with him. So shuttie!

My black grandmother always dressed up as zwarte Piet whenever Sinterklaas-time had begun. She is an awesome woman, who understands the meaning of Sinterklaas. I really do not get why it would be racist. Why would a black persoon be offended when a white person dresses up as a black person giving gifts and handing out candy? I as a white man wouldn’t get angry, that much I can say. The story would be different if black people are being ridiculed, but their not, they are pretty much gods to the children: they can walk on rooftops, they are very kind and funny, they are acrobatic (all the walking on rooftops) and all good dancers. Even if it is considered to be a caricature by some black people, it is a damn positive one. The Netherlands doesn’t have the blackface history, we even helped the ‘good side’ win your civil war! We forced the British to abolish slavery and we have a party about a bishop who saved many former slaves by buying them free. In gratitude they worked for him as employees, as they all needed work to support their now free families. And because we have this tradition we are racists? Everyone saying it is racist is either uninformed or out of their f-ing mind.

December is the best month of the year for kids (and adults!) Many shops dont decorate their shops into Christmas till the 6th of December. Its a kind of unwritten rule that first Sinterklaas comes and then Christmas.

Im dutch and i want to say that its our culture and that People come to our country with Black Piet and Sinterklaas and then go complain about our culture that its racist they could also go to Germany where they dont have Zwartepiet and Sinterklaas. I also think its is for children and let it be for the children as they want.

Zwarte Piet was never a slave. He's called a knecht like many white Dutch people back in the day. A Knecht is basically an employee/ assistant. They would usually work as an apprentice for farmers, millers and carpenters.

Putting soot on his face was an easy and cheap disguise, in Belgium province Hainaut Zwart Piet is named Nicodeme, he cleans the chimneys so that Saint Nicolas stays clean

It's very simple. If you dislike our traditions, don't come to our country. Everybody who is willing to respect our culture, and willing to contribute to our society, is welcome.

As a child i liked zwarte piet, he gave us presents and candy. I still like zwarte piet. Fok the great reset

Here’s a reaction to that video from a Canadian of Dutch descent who spent part of his younger years in the Netherlands. First of all, in all folklore you will find whacky things, if you just care to look closely (as you correctly hinted: are shoes really whackier than North American Christmas stockings?). Secondly, about Piet: Sinterklaas, the ‘goedheilig man’ (well-holy man) is something of a bore, and all the kids absolutely loved Zwarte Piet because he was fun. (Later, TV created a bunch of Piet’s - precisely because they were not boring. 100 years ago, there was only one.) In school it was always one of the most popular boys who had the honour of playing Zwarte Piet in school celebrations. Thirdly, the ‘problems’ and ‘controversies’ have been newly created. They’re not ‘decades’ old, because then I would have known about them. If you want a problem or controversy, a little bit of warped imagination will do (and it also helps when you don’t speak Dutch and don’t give a sh*t about local customs to begin with, as is the case with the recently immigrated ‘critics’ who bitch about what actually is a joyful, inclusive, integrating tradition). Piet was COOL. Nothing about a ‘colonial past’ there, as a placard in the video claims. When was Spain a Dutch colony? When did plantation workers dress up like Renaissance noblemen? So many antihistorical, weird complaints by people who have nothing better to do than think them up.

4:50 "Is that where the stocking thing came from?" The moment he sort of realised that Santa clause is based on the Dutch Sinterklaas, in combination with other variants across of EU versions of a "goedheiligman" (nice saint man like St. Nicklaus, the basis of Sinterklaas)

I just learned about the true origin of zwarte piet. Long ago there was a big influence of Nordic Saga's, you know from Odin, Walhalla things... There was that Sinterklaasdude as it is now and he was helped by two black ravens (Hugin and Munin). They gathered bad children in a juten bag and carried them to Walhalla. Now black for the compagnon is still their trademark and birds are called "piet" as in kanariepiet (canary bird). Later with the Roman empire Sinterklaas came from Turkey (the far east of the empire) and under Spanish bastards he lived in Spain. And that's still the story. Black piet is also evolved and one thing what's left from the ravens is the feather on the hat and the colorfull outfit. As with the most populair things, the catholics had to take it over (The dark ages is called so because of the catholic church human and scientific progression stood still since the Roman empire), and in that period he became a "saint" for whatever that means... Oh and the origin of Santaclaus is probably Sinterklaas;) Coca Cola modelled him early 1900's after todays figured Americans... For whatever you think zwarte piet is, it is far from racism! And for the stupid: There is just one human race. Or maybe 7 billion. Racism has no meaning, discrimination on the other hand...

Black Pete once was an evil spirit subdued by Odin. Odin got replaced by a Saint when early Christians conquered the North,.. Saint Nicolas. The evil spirit got rewritten to be a subdued and converted Moor once Saint Nicolas started to come from Spain bringing oranges as treats. Black Pete I always considered to be discriminatory, but in a positive way as the pinnacle of good and kindness. He made the whole thing fun and every kid I knew wanted to be like him and later play that role. But times change and so does Pete.

A lot of people think that our Sinterklaas is like Chrismas. But no, we have Christmas too. Most of the time the candy will be in a small bag in the shoe for small kids. Sending naughty kids in bags too spain was just a tale we told our kids, so that they would behave.

50 years ago Sinterklaas had a big book. If you had been nauty or bad this would be in the book. Black Piet had a bag and a 'roe' (bundel of twiggs in de hand). If you had been bad Piet would put you in the bag or would hit you with the 'roe'. Nowadays, Piet does have the bag nor the 'roe' anymore and is actually very nice. Sinterklaas does not have a big book anymore.

Maybe a good idea to look into the origin of Santa Claus then, because that came from Dutch people who were not allowed to celebrate Sinterklaas in the USA (something with the English ruling New York and not the Dutch anymore ;-) ). I'm Dutch and I know it's been celebrated in Belgium a bit different and in the Caribbean as well with a different touch. But even here in Ukraine where I am living at the moment we have a similar celebration on the 6th of December, or 19th of December, depending on which calendar you follow.

It’s Saint Martin and Black Piet in Belgium and Holland, every November 10th they are out on the streets I saw them in Ieper Belgium for a number of years I was staying The Ariane Hotel and I would return to the hotel from The Menin Gate Memorial after laying a wreath during The Last Post Ceremony at 8pm (The Last Post Ceremony has being sounded every night from 1927 apart from 1940-1944 until liberation in 1944) and finding a dark, milk or white chocolate statue of Saint Martin in my room.

Naughty kids were threatened that they would find a 'roe' (bunch of twigs used for corporal punishment) instead of sweets in the bag, and would be put into the bag to be taken to Spain. When my mother was little, she did her utmost to be put into the bag, and even succeeded for a moment, and was upset when they took her out again, because she wanted to see Spain. (she made up for that royally as an adult, spending many a holiday there). As for the throwing of candy on the floor (strooien): As a child I considered that 'inefficient', so I ran up to Piet with a container and asked to put it in there, to avoid the mess.

The advantage of a blackface Pete is that it's easier to disguise your neighbours who are in the Pete costumes than when they only has some smudges on their cheeks. The magic is broken when children recognise a familiar person in the Sinterklaas or Pete outfit. It's much more impressive if this important bishop from Spain and all his helpers knows if you've been behaving all year. But that's the ONLY advantage of a blackface. I fully support changing and updating this tradition so it is less hurtful and offensive for coloured people.

A lot to say about this. Saint Nicolas comes originally from Turkey (Myra - Antalya) and part of the Roman Empire. He was a vriend of children and a real person. We celebrate on eve of 6th December because he died that day in the year 342. Over time, we came to believe he was from Spain (Seville) because of historical links with Spain i.e. Netherlands were ruled by Spain at some point as part of The Sicilian Kingdom. Anyway, there is much information available about the history of Sinterklaas. Perhaps interestingly, (sorry to bring it to you) Father Christmas derives from Sinterklaas (Saint Nicolas). Difference is that the Anglo world has moved it to Christmas (commercial reasons I assume) and has nothing to do with the original celebration of Sinterklaas on 6th December. On the issue of Zwarte Pieten: I believe there is a connection with Spain in this regard. Back in the day, when Empires and Kingdoms changed quite a lot (Spain was ruled by a muslim empire in the 8th century). Muslims and people of dark skin, were referred to as Moors (even Othello was a moor!) and so therin lies the story of the Zwarte Piet (Black Pete). Naturally nothing to do with slaves etc and as I am a bit older now and have lived in the UK for quite a long time now, I was hurt when I had to hear about the changes we have made in the Netherlands. I can accept it as my children did not grow up with Zwarte Piet and Sinterklaas (sadly!) and I have no voice in the Netherlands, however I think I would have been in the remain camp, had we lived in the Netherlands. I wonder if we had lived in the middle east, and people from the west would express strong opinions about say, women wearing a Burka, Niqab or Hijab. Would they consider this as we find it offensive? I just think we are moving to much in the direction of everything being politically correct. That is not the solution I think. Anyway, maybe controversial and ignore it by any means. I think the historical part of my post is interesting and there is lots more you can read up on it.

I'm a person of color and lived for 10 years in the Netherlands. I remember when the zwarte Piets came to My home and tossed pepernoten I was like wtf. But it was cool and it was supposed to be soot from sints helpers. Shit! That's how I fell in love with pepernoten. It's not racism. It's just Piet.

“That’s a santa claus pope right there” 😂😂😂