The one thing that improves gaming performance for sure is more Cash.

@Trip4man

3 ай бұрын

Nope... Because there are components that are extra costly and don't provide that much performance. And in fact, cheaper components can provide as much performance as pricier ones. So it's actually more about Finding the Best Value than just simply blindly go buy the pricier things.

@commandertoothpick8284

3 ай бұрын

@@Trip4man someone didnt get the joke

@TheDarksideFNothing

3 ай бұрын

​@@Trip4man"uhm akshyually" lol. It was a good joke the dude made. Sure, you're right, it's not always true that spending more equals greater perf. But on average, for most people, increasing budget will allow for better performance.... And the joke was funny! So chill lmao

@Jakiyyyyy

3 ай бұрын

You want more Cache, I want more Cash. We are not the same.

@Somebody374-bv8cd

3 ай бұрын

More cache: This does not spark joy. More cash: This sparks joy.

AMD has hit a jackpot with it's 3D V-Cache technology.

@Breakfast_of_Champions

3 ай бұрын

Intel only did it as a one-off with the 5775C, never followed up on it.

@TheDarksideFNothing

3 ай бұрын

Isn't it great that V-Cache was just a skunk works for funsies thing one of their engineers cooked up? Wasn't even really in the plans until the prototype was super impressive. Info from someone's AMD tour... Maybe LTT? Gamers Nexus? I can't remember now

@PhillipLemmon

3 ай бұрын

Yeah but they also hit a wall with it..... Which is why they are putting it in EVERYTHING now. Cuz they know that AI chip ain't shit, LMFAO!!!

@winterscrescendo

3 ай бұрын

@@TheDarksideFNothing That was Gamers Nexus. Interestingly, Threadripper has a similar origin story. AMD seems to have a company culture that lets their engineers experiment a bit and it's paid off for them greatly.

@catsspat

3 ай бұрын

@@Breakfast_of_Championsi7-5775C's technology isn't even close. That is an L4 eDRAM cache attached on the side. Not only is eDRAM much slower than SRAM, it's just a standard MCM (side-by-side) module attached through a standard bus. The incredible magic of 3D V-Cache is that it adds practically no additional latency, because it's literally right there, where the regular L3 cache logic is. Any company can make a giant chip with more L3 cache, but that will lead to additional latencies (bigger == further away), and cost more due to sinking yield.

I just upgraded to 5800x3d from my old 2700x.I see about 30% performance gain in average FPS with my 6700XT, and the stuttering, frame time spikes are all gone, I can finally enjoy fluid gaming in most of the games.

@tommihommi1

3 ай бұрын

it really is amazing how much of a difference going from a 3600 to a 5800x3d made, even while using a measly RX480 and technically "gpu bound" 99% of the time. Those moments when the CPU slogs you down really ruin gaming fun

@fracturedlife1393

3 ай бұрын

30% sounds low, maybe lower some settings if playing anything competitive. I went 38xt to 58x3d, I was CPU limited in ACC and EPIC graphics settings everywhere didn't impact max / average FPS much. Dialled back some settings that are pretty useless when playing and almost doubled FPS at race starts, average 50% higher overall.

@bigjoeangel

3 ай бұрын

I went from a 2700x to a 5600 on a Radeon 6700 10G and even losing two cores I still get massive performance gains.

@BestKosmakCZ

3 ай бұрын

@@fracturedlife1393 competetive games will see larger gains, Elden Ring maxed at 1440p just got smooth frame pacing now :)

@sannidhyabalkote9536

3 ай бұрын

​@@fracturedlife1393 from cpu bound to gpu bound :)

When I saw the title I thought, "Haven't you already done this with Intel?" I wonder what would happen if you took the 64 core or 96 core Threadripper and disabled all but 8 cores. Would that give those 8 cores 384 MB of L3 cache?

@scamdem1c

3 ай бұрын

peopIe should upvote this so hardwareunboxed sees it and tries it out

@markjacobs1086

3 ай бұрын

Depends on the layout if that's beneficial or not. Accessing cache on a different CCD induces a hefty latency penalty that would reduce performance in most instances.

@scamdem1c

3 ай бұрын

@@markjacobs1086 is that latency penalty worth it over the latency penalty of having to access RAM?

@MrHamof

3 ай бұрын

@@scamdem1cGo check out the 7950x review, look at it's scores compared to the 7700x. The answer is no. It's at best equal, in some cases worse.

@anttikangasvieri1361

3 ай бұрын

​@@scamdem1cprobably, ram access penalty is hundreds of clocks.

Funny we forgot the lessons learned during the Core 2 Duo and Quad era. The extra cache on Penryn vs Conroe (especially 2M Conroe) mattered more than the # of cores for gaming

@user-lp5wb2rb3v

3 ай бұрын

yep, this is why a eon with lots of chache is still relevant

@saricubra2867

3 ай бұрын

Then Intel Ring Bus came on Sandy Bridge and made a huge improvement in perfomance.

cores = muscles cache = oxygen

@71janas

3 ай бұрын

Spot on 👍

@LikkleleeUK

3 ай бұрын

great analogy!

@fracturedlife1393

3 ай бұрын

Ha classic. Cores=allnattymuscles Cache=steroids

@weltsiebenhundert

3 ай бұрын

VRAM = ???

@igoresque

3 ай бұрын

More like cache=blood vessels

It's allways worth revisiting these types of subjects if only to help newbies learn more about the machines they are buying. Also updated / expanded testing data is allways good.

I love these kinds of comparisons. Thank you for doing them.

As someone who plays a lot simulation type games, I am continually grateful that you included Assetto Corsa Competizone in your testing suite. For people that primarily play racing sims, flight sims, and large scale military sims, like ARMA, testing and comparing CPU cache as well as core count is integral to find out what hardware is the best choice for these kinds of titles. The way these games operate is so greatly different than most other games, mostly being console ports with not a lot of instruction sets being sent to the CPU in comparison.

I actually upgraded from the 5700G to the 5800X3D last year and it'd one of the best PC components I've ever bought

@carllavery4442

3 ай бұрын

@tilapiadave3234 nonsense

@IceBreakBottle

3 ай бұрын

@@tilapiadave3234 That's why AMD is dominating the CPU market now...

@LupusAries

3 ай бұрын

​@@tilapiadave3234given that in Germany you can get one for 277 Euros while the 5700X3D is 253..... nope!

@ThEoNeAnDoNlYmE0

3 ай бұрын

@@tilapiadave3234said no one ever

@montreauxs

3 ай бұрын

yep @@LupusAries

3D cache also improves winRAR performance a lot, because the dictionary fits inside cache and the processor won´t go to main memory frequently.

@FateXO

3 ай бұрын

7zip better

@Diegonando64

3 ай бұрын

@@FateXO i'm excited about zstd and FSE-related compressors

@Dankyjrthethird

2 ай бұрын

@@FateXO You’re pushing your luck little man.

@FateXO

2 ай бұрын

@@Dankyjrthethird what you finna do about it old timer

Cache is King.

@George_K.

3 ай бұрын

Content is King, too!

@BBB-999

3 ай бұрын

Well I’d like both

@Alex-qq1gm

3 ай бұрын

Wu Tang said it first. Cache Rules Everything Around Me.

@beachslap7359

3 ай бұрын

When it can be utilized yeah, but a brute force single core combined with low latency is more consistent in its results. That's why I'm interested to see how arrow lake pans out considering Intel is ditching hyperthreading for the sake of single core performance.

@ZaHandle

3 ай бұрын

No one got the “cash is king” reference

Cache itself is important, but it depends on how accessible it is to all the CPU's cores. If you have 20mb of cache but a core can access only 1/8th of it, its far worse than if one core can access all of the cache. That's basically why zen 3 is so much faster than zen 2. A core can access twice as much cache on zen 3 compared to zen 2

@Syssn3ck

3 ай бұрын

This here is about L3-Cache that is shared between all cores. But yeah L1/L2-Cashes also matter but are not easily comparable, because they are usually the same for the same architecture. And when comparing between two different architectures, there are more factors than just L1/L2 that are responsible for the performance gain.

@cpt.tombstone

3 ай бұрын

Generally speaking, only L1-I and L1-D caches are private in modern CPU architectures. L2 cache is "on the core" meaning it's physically allocated to each core, but other cores can "snoop" L2 caches of other cores. With Zen, this can only happen inside a CCD, so Core 0 (on CCD 0) cannot access the L2 cache of Core 8 (on CCD 1). This is partly why multi CCD Zen chips are not better in games. L3 cache is again CCD-public, meaning any core on the same CCD can access the L3 cache, but other CCDs cannot. As you mentioned, with Zen 2, a CCD was 4-cores and a CCX contained 2 CCDs. With Zen 3, Zen 4 and Zen 4c, a CCD is 8 cores.

@JackJohnson-br4qr

3 ай бұрын

A good example for Zen 2 is Ryzen 5 3600 vs Ryzen 7 3700X. The Ryzen 5 3600 has 32MB of shared L3 cache between cores and the other one does not. But the difference in performance is only 5%. But that can be attributed to more cores and a higher frequency rather than a difference in cache. People have learned that the cache makes a big difference in Zen 3, but then they try to apply it retroactively to older architectures as well. I don't think Zen 2 was designed to benefit significantly from more cache.

@gamingoptimized

3 ай бұрын

@@JackJohnson-br4qr the cache on zen 2 was shared between 4 cores, thus an 8 core 3700x did have 32mb of cache but each 4 core CCD could access 16mb. That changed with zen 3 where each core had access to the 32mb of cache as there is no CCD anymore

@h1tzzYT

3 ай бұрын

@@cpt.tombstone except that dual ccd chips are faster in games, not by much with varying results, but in general they are the same or faster than single CCD chips

Excel, browser and other productivity applications' impact on core frequency, ipc and cache will be much appreciated as most of the day to day tasks are still single threaded

@antgib

3 ай бұрын

Yes, I'd be very interested to see all the same CPU's tested against general apps/productivity. Especially as the much larger cache on the X3D chips usually results in lower frequency, which in theory matters more outside of games, but it would be nice to see all that confirmed.

3:10 wow, dictator Steve :D:D:D But hey, you are good dictator ! :D

This was one of the most informative CPU videos I've ever seen. Good job making great content in a time where there isn't much happening as far as new parts.

Super useful video, as always! Thanks Steve!

very interesting, will be installing 5700X3D tomorrow from 3500X, my wife's PC ended up being a good upgrade path from 8700K PC.

@adi22121

3 ай бұрын

upgraded my 3700x to 5700x3d and i'm loving it. the 3700x was great for its price back in the day, but the 5700x3d is just amazing

That's why I love you guys from down under. You're making videos to topics or questions the viewers would like to get answered. 👌👍

I was running Intel for at least 4 of my last builds and was about to go for the 14700k a week ago. Then I stumbled over some information on the lifecycle and the fact that AM5 would be more future proof for another couple of years while being superior for gaming anyway due to the cache. And then I also noticed that the R7 7800X3D also was way more efficient and cooler. All that while costing less in total together with an Aorus Master mainboard. Had to reconfigure my cart eventually and go with AMD of course. Super glad right now.

@michealmeyers9789

3 ай бұрын

I was on intel for a decade. My last build was 5800x3d, very efficient never regret will last at least 5 more years.

@johnfirst3986

3 ай бұрын

hi planing also to buy 7800x3d AMD path, can you share me your build list ? thanks and have a nice day

@romzen

3 ай бұрын

@@johnfirst3986 I went with - Corsair 7000D Airflow (Big Tower) white - Aorus Master B650E (Mainboard) - 7800X3D (of course) cooled by Noctua NH-D15 - Corsair Vengeance RGB 32GB CL30 AMD EXPO (RAM) - Corsair RM850x (PSU) - MSI GeForce RTX 4080 Super 16G Gaming X Slim White (GPU) I had plenty of storage left from my older machine. And I game at 1440p for the most part. The build is overkill for what I need as I mostly play fighting games. Even the most recent games will not need the 4080 to consume more than 50 watts.

I had a 5900x 12 core and changed to a 7800x3d 8 core and don't regret it for gaming now.

@DungxxHen

3 ай бұрын

Did you get 5900x for gaming?

@Jakiyyyyy

3 ай бұрын

Does that mean cache are more important than cores?

@Mario211DE

3 ай бұрын

I still have my 5900x and now waiting for the Zen5. Gaming in 4k and streaming at the same time

@DungxxHen

3 ай бұрын

@@Mario211DE I don't think you need to upgrade

@Mario211DE

3 ай бұрын

@@DungxxHen thing is tho im cpu bound even at 4k in different games already which is interesting

Love the blowing up of the "More cores/multi-tasking!" argument points. Well done guys.

@Incommensurabilities

3 ай бұрын

it's quite surprising to me, but good to know!

Thanks for doing a video you found interesting to do and that's why ya did it ^^ Found it intereresting too, for sure =) ~a random canadian viewer

Really great idea for a video Very helpful definitely 🙏🏻 Love the content like always

Just got my 5800x3d a few days ago. 🥳 Long live AM4

@jmal

3 ай бұрын

AM4ever!

@HazewinDog

3 ай бұрын

AM4 is going to beat LGA1155 in terms of usable lifespan :)

@GodyArtDesign

2 ай бұрын

Maybe we are Lucky And they will bring a other New cpu with x3d for am4

Core count and mhz are linked. High cache is about removing latency issues. If your cores or high mhz cpu is waiting for a chunk of ram from system ram the it dosn't matter if you have 6 or 7ghz cpu. It will be idle. A high cache helps to mitigate this issue by guessing what you might want to load in the future and keep it closer. The P4 tried to do this but their long pipeline killed the gains from the cache. The P4 had to flush the long pipelines and it took a long time.

You guys always seem to make videos answering questions I've wanted to know the answers to. Cheers!

I was just wondering about this with my brother yesterday, thank you for the explanation!

I will be forever thankful to you guys for the review of the 5800X3D almost 2 years ago. If it wasn't for your benchmark with ACC i probably wouldn't have jumped on the X3D train and wouldn't have experienced the monster that this chip is. 18 months plus and counting and still feel completely blown away by the performance every time i load a game.

@HazewinDog

3 ай бұрын

It's a shame no one ever tested it with the original AC (+ CSP). I only recently decided to make the jump to X3D, upgrading from the 3700X to the 5800X3D. and my goodness was I not prepared for the difference. I legitimately get up to 105% higher framerate. Yes, over twice the framerate. And that's with a 4060 Ti, so the potential gains with a higher end GPU can probably be much higher still. X3D is such a blessing in many CPU-heavy titles.

Another dimension to check is Cache Size vs. ClockFrequency with similar corecount, as 3DVCache is usually lower clocked as standard Cache-CPUs

@PaulSpades

3 ай бұрын

At this point, all desktop cpus run at outrageously high (inefficient) clock rates. Everything over 3ghz is mostly a waste of power. Look at gpu clock rates.

@nicholaswicks3077

3 ай бұрын

@@PaulSpadeslooks over at my 6.3 ghz 14900k pc 👁️👄👁️

@pizzaparity

3 ай бұрын

@@PaulSpadeswhy is that?

@Eidolon2003

3 ай бұрын

@@PaulSpades Performance scales with clock speed far past 3 GHz, what are you even talking about?

@impuls60

3 ай бұрын

@@Eidolon2003 Agreed, this whole test is done on cpu's starved of ram info throughput. Zen2/3 have high latency to ram and ofcourse a cache buffer will diminish that problem somewhat. On Intel one can oc ring and cache for over 6Ghz scaling. This has been true for over 10years on Intel. Only HW likes to pretend this isnt doable on Intel, rofl. On Intel no oc guy leaves ring and cache on stock speed when oc'ing.

Really fantastic video! Great information, great data presentation, and very educational for buyers. Thanks Steve!

It's been implied by testing, but L2 cache is incredibly important as well, arguably with more impact. Raptor Lake's performance improvements are almost entirely based on in a large increases in L2 cache (not all 13th gen did get L2 cache increases, basically it's 13600K+). The nVidia Lovelace architecture also saw massive gains by increasing L2 cache sizes. At a basic level, L2 cache is "easier" and less expensive to implement than stacked dies.

@TheDarksideFNothing

3 ай бұрын

L2 just has less options for blowing up majorly in size. I think even the latency of V-Cache would be too great for L2 IIRC Would be interesting if they figured a way to use all the L3 space on the die for L2 and then use V-Cache only for L3. Best of both worlds.

@awebuser5914

3 ай бұрын

@@TheDarksideFNothing "L2 just has less options for blowing up majorly in size..." The "problem" is that L3 size has significantly diminishing returns in performance gains. You could probably cut the L3 (per core) in half on an X3D chip and see very similar results.

@kosmosyche

3 ай бұрын

@@awebuser5914 You are probably right about diminishing returns, but I wonder if the relative ceiling of L3 cache effectiveness on Ryzens has even been reached yet. Right now it's obvious that 96MB is much better than 32MB (for games), but what if they tried 128MB, 160MB or even 192MB of V-Cache? 😁

@WayStedYou

3 ай бұрын

They wouldn't just because of expense. It may even be better to just tack another 32mb on instead of 64mb​@kosmosyche

@JonWood007

3 ай бұрын

No, Steve did a comparison on that. Most of it is clock speed and RAM speed, the difference in L2 cache is like 1 frame.

I always follow the suggestion/raccomandation from Steve and Tim , NEVER let me down !! CPU , GPU , Monitors , I based my purchases on this channel , I did NEVER regret ANY decision. They are the best IMO.

What about L2 and L1 cache size?

oh wow this is a subject ive been wondering about for awhile thanks for the video

Great topic and review, thx!

You need to test competitive games like a BF, COD, APEX, PUBG. It is for them that people upgrade their CPU\RAM in the first place.

So 6 cores are fine with just gaming and more cache would be usually better . How does it hold up when u also streaming from the same pc? Would a cpu with more cores then be better, or a cpu with less cores but more cache? Dunno if this a yes or no question or 'it depends' :P

Been saying this since Intel's mesh architecture (I had a 7820x), so it's great seeing more and more videos confirm cache is so important! Great video.

This and the x3d comparison was super helpful!

i really want to see a 1gb cache one day lmao you could cram a whole old game in there

@TheDarksideFNothing

3 ай бұрын

Hell even a modern game you could fit enough of it in there to easily mask any data swapping. We already see where some games see no benefit because they've already optimized to fit in normal amounts of cache so at some point you lose the benefits. But I do wonder if a dev KNEW they were getting 1GB if they'd be able to take advantage of it in really interesting ways.

@OtherwiseUknownMonkey

3 ай бұрын

Yeah the one thing I keep wondering about how one could optimize if they knew they were getting 1gb of cache. i personally wonder if it would help raytracing performance at all since that hits performance the hardest@@TheDarksideFNothing

@TheDarksideFNothing

3 ай бұрын

@@OtherwiseUknownMonkey Yeah, I think a full GB of cache would be much more about seeing what new things you could do vs making existing things go faster. Right now all things are designed around small caches because that's the hardware that exists in mainstream. But some applications miss the mark, and that's where V-Cache shines.

@kingkrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa4527

3 ай бұрын

Intel is apparently working on a last level cache that goes up to 8GB.

@OtherwiseUknownMonkey

3 ай бұрын

@@TheDarksideFNothing i wish i could hear a tech artist talk and a programmer talk on it, with 1gb cache on cpu you could make worlds feel so much more lively eith more intricate ai routines i imagine, and if you had a gig of cache on the gpu you could keep whole lightmaps in there, like lets say the game let the gpu know where the lighting will be at in 10 seconds from now and you could smartly interpolate those lightmaps that will still be in cache the whole time making rendering sm faster

"Why am I doing this. Because I want to ". At this point, the video gets a like. Because I want to 😊

To me bigger difference would be cache vs frequency I am using X99 based Xeons and some games benefit so much from cache that it doubles my framerate despite running

@WereCatStudio

3 ай бұрын

Just look at 5700X3D vs 5800X3D reviews. They are almost the same perf while 5700X3D runs by around 400MHz-500MHz slower.

@HazewinDog

3 ай бұрын

good call to be honest. we already know 12 threads is more than enough, but frequency VS cache is a whole different animal, as some games will heavily favor frequency, whereas others will heavily favor cache.

Very informative, thank you. There are some particularities, but but some things will never linear.

A few certain KZreadrs aren't going to like this one...

Very great content ! Keep it up !

Great video Tim!! I love it!!

I do find this interesting! thank you for the video :)

Really impressive how big changes are in fps and how much L3 cache has changed over years! Thanks for the benchmarks!

12600k alderlake vs 14400 "raptor lake refresh" Lock the cores and caches to the same frequency (and tdp's) and see if there's any change in architecture... because they're the same die.

I appreciate your no nonsense video titles.

Your more candid tone in this video made me laugh more. Thanks for the great content.

Are you going to do another video on CPU scaling with high end GPUs at all the resolutions ?

*ABSOLUTE GENIUS WORK* As a geeky request, if you can compare the 7000 series x3d models. Please

Great demonstration!

It would be interesting to do a deep dive into this subject and trace the CPU operations to see how many times L3 cache is hit and how many times main memory during gaming. That would give you conclusive information.

14:59 shots fired. Lookin at you byte size tech

Thanks for the video.

Thank you! I'd rather add as optional opponents 4600g and 4700g. They have only zen2 cores but twice less L3 when compare to 5xxxG parts, so L3 compare chain can be wider - from 8 to 96MB :)

Hey steve. Love the vid. Whould love see a vid abpit whether an ssd with dram cache makes a sense for a gaming pc. Does more expensive storage make a differnce?

The 3D V-cache absolutely makes a different in frametimes too, I went from the 5800X to the 5800X 3D and the caching stutters went away, I was getting insane shader cache stutters on the regular 5800X and they were non existent on the 3D version, this is after a full driver install and the cache cleared.

cheers steve a interesting watch, i knew cache was important but not to that degree bring on the 186mb l3 cache 8 cores cpus

The other thing not mentioned is that cache can help vs clock speed. The 5800X and 5600X chips both have higher clocks and yet are showing some serious performance difference in gaming.

This was why i upgraded from a 3900X to a 5800x3D, despite the core deficit i mostly play games but also i wanted a single CCX 1x8 rather than 4x3 core because of the cross-talk between cores over the infinity fabric and accessing the cache. Still using an RTX2080 so while over all fps has not changed much (GPU limit) but my 1% lows has been reduced by over 50%. Also games don't like too many CPU cores as it messes up the scheduling which epic has came out about crashes on Intel CPU's because of core count.

I remember many hears ago buying a used Opteron X2 170 for gaming. It had one more core and a boat load more cache then it's Athlon 64 equivalent, and even being 200Mhz slower it out gamed pretty much any Athlon 64 because of the added cache. I was also able to sink a 1Ghz overclock on that bad boy and REALLY crank out the performance.. good times.

Hey Hardware Unboxed. I was curious about Intel 12th gen. How does an i5-12600k with 20MB cache beat the Ryzen 5 5600X with 32MB cache in most games? There are still some other factors when talking specifically about gaming performance. I can see that cache improves performance quite a bit on AMD but how can intel cpu’s with lower cache keep up? 12:59

Great video, hope AMD and Intel will use this to make more cache for gaming CPU, because it is interesting how far is scale.

Love this channel. Exponentially increases my enjoyment for pc tech and gaming.

More content like this, please! 💯

OMG! These are my favourite kinds of videos!

tremendo contenido el que hace este señor, una información bien clara sobre lo que realmente importa a la hora configurar un pc, me encantó el video!

I really like this episode. Can you guys do another episode comparing l3 caches versus speed of ram?

I would appreciate a follow-up to this video covering emulation performance, RPCS3 and Yuzu specifically.

Great video! But I feel like taking clock speed into consideration would be important

SOTR with the 10900k did show a substantial lead in min fps going with 8 cores, and still improved going to 10 so there are definitely games out there, especially now, that will use the extra cores.

This kind of video is the most valuable where we really learn something new!

For video production and rendering, would the same benefits of a larger cache also be expected?

do you think the frequency master race is kinda over and will take a back seat in order to have a cache master race between the manufacturers? (if it didnt start already)

Wendell from Level1Techs thought that 3DVCache is helping overcome memory bandwidth and of latency limitations. I would be curious to see how tweaking the RAM affects the performance delta between the vanilla and X3D parts.

I like your reasoning, really :)

What about more cores with background tasks running? Usually while i'm gaming I also have things like Firefox with KZread playing, listening to Spotify, downloading stuff, etc... Would be nice to do some kind of standard test for thoose use cases.

Great job Steve

If anything this really highlights the impact of swapping data in and out of system ram has on overall performance.

Hey Steve, This was a great video, I was just looking into 5800X3D as a potential upgrade path as it does seem to regularly get discounts here in the EU. I am kind of curious how it would compare against one of the 12/16-core SKUs though. All of these have 64MB L3 cache, but boost higher and are generally better value than X3Ds for productivity. I'd imagine many of us also use their "gaming" PCs as a workstation, so I wonder if the gaming performance gain is significant enough to justify a 5800X3D vs. 5900x for example. In your original review the average 8-game 1% lows came up to 150 vs. 121 FPS respectively, but the X3D got blown away in all productivity tests. What I don't get is why the 64MB L3 cache on the 5900X/5950X did not seem to make any difference in these tests vs. the non-X3D 5800X (32MB cache). The way I understand it, the 64MB should be shared between both CCDs (as opposed to 32MB per CCD), so even if games don't use multiple cores, shouldn't they still benefit from the larger cache size?

I followed your recommendation (5600X) two years ago and never regretted it as it runs everything very nicely, in fact I built my whole system following your various videos on hardware components. I briefly thought of upgrading to the 5800X3D when it came out but then I realized that I don't really need it for the types of games I play (mostly strategy games @ 60 fps).

@matttiaz7576

3 ай бұрын

Agreed. I did the same , always follow the suggestion/raccomandation from Steve and Tim , NEVER let me down !! CPU , GPU , Monitors , I base my purchase on this channel , NEVER regret ANY decision. They are the best IMO.

@saricubra2867

3 ай бұрын

An i7-12700K with DDR5 is faster than a 5800X3D, it's similar in gaming perfomance to the 7700X while clocking 800MHz lower. It's a streaming beast as well... If i waited a little bit more, maybe i would have a 7800X3D. The 5800X3D also has an annoying flaw, it's a jittery mess for the clocks, depending on the game i even watched a Ryzen 9 5900X being smoother for the frametime graphs than the 5800X3D for Rust. I don't like CPUs with bad clocks or power limits. I feel the jitter as well for the Windows UI on those CPUs and other things.

@matttiaz7576

3 ай бұрын

IMO the clockspeed masterace will be end soon (in main use) just like Intel did back in the days with the Pentium4. To much power/heat to dissipate comparate to performance. I belive ,the big and fast cache, will be the proxime future primary choice for the productor .@bra2867

I like, that you "just wanted to" do this test. Also it is still relevant and interesting.

great video!

Can we see a cache vs clock speed video? How much do the non 3D skus make up in performance with their clock speed increase over the 3D variants? Only a curiosity of mine because I moved from 7600x at 5.5ghz to a 7800x3d at around 4.6 ghz.

@TheBenMillard

3 ай бұрын

In these charts, the 5800X has faster clocks than the 5800X3D. The 5600X has faster clocks than the 5600X3D. In simple games, faster cores can be an advantage because those games don't fill the 'normal' cache sizes. (Anything in a modern engine like UE4 will be more complicated than this.) Productivity workloads are often spamming a small set of instructions on a large amount of unique data. Cores and clocks help those more than cache - if the task can be spread across cores, that is. Conversely, going from a 5000 CPU to a 7000 CPU is a change of architecture and memory goes from DDR4 to DDR5. The also doubled the L2 cache on each core. ~15% more instructions per cycle in each core and more memory bandwidth alone should give ~30% more performance for the same clock+core+L3 cache configuration. 7800X3D should boost up to 5050MHz per core. Have a read about PBO, curve optimiser and the +200MHz "Boost Clock" setting your motherboard BIOS should have. Task Manager might not report the full clock speed you are getting. HWinfo and similar tools will show it. If your motherboard has an external clock generator, ScatterBench has an article about overclocking X3D a bit. It may even have a built-in, pre-tuned overclocked profile.

Something that has to be noted is that cache architecture is far more complex than just adding more even if it's possible, the corecount, the cores, the task and the L1 and L2 caches affect how much L3 is optimal. In general a larger cache is slower so there is an optimal value for the cache for each task. Slower cache means it takes longer to access it but it means you have to access the even slower RAM less often. If your task has very little memory requirements (takes very little ram space) then a cpu with larger L3 can actually become slower. Games get heavier and heavier so we might get L4 cache soon in the form of HBM on the chip and the L3 caches might get smaller.

Hey Steve I am really curious about Turn Based simulation games. Games that are very low gpu usage at all but process alot of moves and various things during a turn? Does cache help more over cores I might have to donate on a q and a for a answer

Thanks Steve!

Question: is the gap between 3D variant and non-3D one the same on 4k/1440p Gaming? In terms of percentage. Asking these too see if is worth it getting the 3D variant for the high res gaming. In my country 7900X is cheaper than 7800X3D. So I'm considering the 12 core over the 8core if the gaming is not affected that much on high resolutions.

@hinchlikescake7592

3 ай бұрын

I would take the 7800X3D if gaming is your focus. Will scale way better in the long run with higher powered GPU's and will keep its resale value. Most new applications are GPU accelerated anyways.

Can you guys test the difference in frame timings between X3D cpus and intel cpus? Just curious.

I'm curious to know if you locked the CPU Core clocks of the 5700G/5800X to be identical (and the same for the 5600G/X) just how much the cache itself makes a difference between those two. I mention this, as the cache clocks on Zen chips is tied to the CPU Core clocks. I.e. CPU Freq of 4GHz means the cache is also at 4GHz. Great content though!

You could do the same comparison on AM5. You just need to add a 7900X3D with one CCD disabled to the chart at 16:37 to have 6 and 8 core of each cache size.

Great but what about 4k gaming is there any differents?

So the limitations are more so the cpu and memory communication speed, and the larger L3 cache means you can utilize the more of the CPUs potential and not wait around for the data from the RAM?

Chiplet vs monolithic would also be interesting

Multitasking requires the CPU cores to share the rest of the memory and storage subsystems and therefore increases latency and latency dependent games will suffer regardless of core count. That's why the E-cores on ADL and RPL taking care of all the background tasks is somewhat of a fallacy.

@andersjjensen

3 ай бұрын

Yeah. For that argument to ever have any merit we will need quad channel memory on the consumer platform.

@saricubra2867

3 ай бұрын

"That's why the E-cores on ADL and RPL taking care of all the background tasks is somewhat of a fallacy." Better scheduling fixes software CPU overhead, that's why my 12700K is perfect for a DAW and chips without Big-Little aren't that good. What Steve shows in bars doesn't reflect the real world when actually using these types of CPUs, same for a lot of results i watched on the internet when these techtubers are ignoring music producers. When i disable the e-cores on the i7, i lose singlethread speed and gaming perfomance even though I'm freeing cache for the big cores. Depending on the game, it could be a hit to the frametimes (a small one with some exceptions).

@saricubra2867

3 ай бұрын

When the scheduling works perfectly, we get a massive 30% increase for gaming perfomance (watch APO on the 14900K as an example). Cache and memory aren't everything. Imagine how much better the Ryzen 7 1700 would have been at launch if the scheduling worked fine, nowadays it outperforms quad core i7s from that time due to the lack of cores. Simply search which CPUs have the highest IPC, singlethread speeds and thread counts, the rest is irrelevant (minus number of PCIe lanes).

This was a good test there doesn't seem to be a difference between 6 and 8 cores. However 1 thing I think may be true is clock speed from a higher ghz to clocking it at lower static value can't be measured in this type of testing because clocking lower increases memory bandwidth for its effect on the fsb depending on the processors minimum needed wattage for performing work this didn't used to be needed but it's a protection added by the meltdown and spectre patches although I've only tested it on Intel as far as I remember anyway