That's what happens when you actually create a real story arc, instead of making things up as you go.

@richardsturges2736

3 жыл бұрын

I know you probably didn't mean this to be a specific jab at anyone, but I see this as a comment on J(ibber) J(abber) Abrams' lack of story cohesiveness. (my nickname for him)

@paulgaither

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardsturges2736 - and in terms of Disney Star Wars, all three films were NOT planned at all - which at least they admit to. Such a disgrace for such a proud franchise. Thank goodness the team on The Mandalorian know what they are doing and are being given more control and projects.

@dalethelander3781

3 жыл бұрын

You mean like the the final two seasons of BSG?

@cyberninjazero5659

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardsturges2736 Let's not pretend it was all JJs fault when the clown they hired to do the middle movie went to great lengths to make sure every set up JJ made would be tossed in the trash and unsalvageable.

@hughjassol-0-

3 жыл бұрын

"... AND THEY HAVE A PLAN." LOLOLOL

Londo was one of the best characters in the show. Peter Jurasik was amazing in this role. The relationship he and G’Kar developed was one the best parts of the show.

@AAron-gr3jk

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. They managed to pull two amazing actors with synergy.

@SteveMeidaKing

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I view the whole series as the story of those two. Everything else is just a bunch of stuff that happened along the way.

@MartinFWhite

2 жыл бұрын

@@SteveMeidaKing Having rewatched the show 2x since the pandemic began, it's obvious they were the heart and soul of the series. I'm eager for the new series, but it's going to be a stone bitch to try and replace those two.

@OldDannyboy12

2 жыл бұрын

It's a toss up for me between. him and Ivonova

@-0rbital-

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, Londo was always my favorite character on the show.

Jerry Doyle always reminds me of Bruce Willis.

@JohnBayko

3 жыл бұрын

Jerry Doyle played Bruce Willis in an episode of Moonlighting. One episode had an “episode” of “Moonlighting” on a background television, with Bruce Willis and Cybill Shepherd replaced with look-alike actors playing them playing their characters.

@clouts1400

3 жыл бұрын

@@JohnBayko Did not know that ?! Which épisode was it ?

@JohnBayko

3 жыл бұрын

@@clouts1400 I think I was mistaken about the "Moonlighting in Moobnlighting" show, but here he is in front of the line of actors auditioning to replace Bruce Willis in the show: kzread.info/dash/bejne/hKSE27NvorHYdto.htmlm3s

@metalsiren

3 жыл бұрын

Iwas going to say that! I loved him and his attitude in the show!

@DanielMartinez-lz3ot

3 жыл бұрын

I miss his radio show, I feel lucky that I got to listen to him for those four years of his life, I didn't always agree with him but his outlook was honest and refreshing.

Criminally underrated show.

@Xeno426

3 жыл бұрын

Particularly by the network that was bloody paying for it.

@gregory3340

3 жыл бұрын

you are right ...but hope now its on HBO there will be new viewers who have not seen it

@sprawlz6466

3 жыл бұрын

It’s on my list, I hear it’s brilliant. But it looks like it can be nerdy and stupid too.

@SierraSierraFoxtrot

3 жыл бұрын

B5 doesn't get the credit for proving audiences can watch shows with an arc, Without B5 there would be no "Lost" or any of that stuff that we take for granted now. There was only one show that pulled this off before B5 AFAIK and that's "Wiseguy" which had an arc for each of it's 4 seasons running from 1987 to 1990.

@Xeno426

3 жыл бұрын

@@SierraSierraFoxtrot I wouldn't go that far. B5 was a trailblazer for TV shows that had a full arc, but that would have eventually happened without the show. It's not like having a fully planned arc was a new concept in media. And I wouldn't call the meandering creation of new mystery boxes that was "Lost" as a result. The writers for B5 knew where the hell the story was going; the writers of Lost seemed rather lost.

I think more amazing is the Presidential election in the background that you’re barely paying attention to, but ends up having such a big impact on the show‘s story arc.

@thrallgames

3 жыл бұрын

I still think the chin theory is foreshadowing

@fgdj2000

3 жыл бұрын

@@thrallgames Exactly. It's a little joke in the episode, but it's foreshadowing so much that's to come.

@ishoottheyscore8970

3 жыл бұрын

There is a lovely attention to detail in background elements - Zathras, the ship that nearly kills Catherine Sakai, little details about telepaths... they all get developed slowly so they're not a complete exposition dump when the main story picks up on them later

@Widestone001

3 жыл бұрын

@@ishoottheyscore8970 No, no... Zathras!

@ishoottheyscore8970

3 жыл бұрын

@@Widestone001 At least there is symmetry

If you only watch the series once, you miss half of what's going on.

@garanceadrosehn9691

3 жыл бұрын

Let me take that a little farther. The first time you watch Babylon 5, you think that *nothing* (much) is going on in Season 1. The second time you watch it, you realize that every single episode has at least a little bit of something which will be significant in later seasons.

@ifly-fsx

3 жыл бұрын

@@garanceadrosehn9691 Very true. Unlike other series, I never skip an episode of B5 when rewatching it. Even the weaker ones have redeeming qualities, and have those bits.

@stevetheduck1425

3 жыл бұрын

Yes... all those tiny decisions that add up to the future. This series is just so good.

@VirusXAX

3 жыл бұрын

I watched that as i was 14 years Old. Now im 32 and i still rewatch that whole DVD Box of all these pisodes and i find it very entertaining and enlightening to see such depth in Babylon 5. Such an Amazing Television Show.

@ishoottheyscore8970

3 жыл бұрын

I'm rewatching DS9 and that is almost the reverse. If Chief O'Brien is an important character in the episode, you can almost always skip it... Storyteller, Tosk, the one where he is actually a clone of himself which is a sleeper agent... If you're going to watch DS9, you might be able to skip more than half the episodes of the first two seasons!

The reason it's so well done and can foreshadow so far into the series is the ENTIRE show was written ahead of time. This show was planned to have a limited run with the who thing planned out from start to finish, so it told a fully cohesive story.

@calkelpdiver

3 жыл бұрын

I read an interview with JMS a few years back. He said he had the ending of B5 figured out first and then worked backwards. So he had an outline/bible of the whole story arc before he wrote the scripts for the episodes. This way he could add in the foreshadowing (no pun intended) events and then have them actually happen in later episodes. That is both great Science Fiction and story writing in one shot.

@ML-yn9yu

3 жыл бұрын

Yep! its honestly the best written scifi show to date. I dont think there anything has comes close. The foreshadowing is just too well done.

@kizikucalegon8673

3 жыл бұрын

Only hiccup was it was designed for five years, the network said we'll give you four seasons not five, JMS condensed it to four, then they demanded a fifth. It's why season 5 is... not as good as it could have been.

@PapaBear816

3 жыл бұрын

@@calkelpdiver I'm not sure if the next part I read about is 100% True. It's said that the Sci Fi channel was going to cut the show out after the 4th season ended and B5 was suppose to go 5 seasons. This is supposedly why the 4th season Ramped up so suddenly Vs the rest of the show's pace which was a steady pace. When the 4th season exploded in popularity Sci-fi decided to not kill it and run the 5th season. Because of this The creator had to hash out things he left out of season 4 with hurriedly written stuff for season 5 which is why season 5 is kind of considered the weak season of the series. However again, I'm not 100% sure that's True.

@guspaz

3 жыл бұрын

@@PapaBear816 It was never a Sci-Fi series... quite the opposite, in fact. Warner didn't want to do a fifth season, but TNT decided to fund another season, and then Crusade. But they then realized that none of the B5/Crusade audience was their core audience, so they wanted to kill it off. Sci-Fi wanted to buy the rights to the re-runs and to continue Crusade, but TNT prevented it from happening. They did get the franchise not much later though.

In the pilot movie Kosh greets Sinclair with "Entilza Valen" Try catching the meaning of that without having seen the show all the way through.

@Tiafain

3 жыл бұрын

OMG! I just rewatched it, and this sent shivers down my spine.

@superheroalerts3761

3 жыл бұрын

lol that would be nigh on impossible to decipher 😂 which in turn reminds me of one of my favourite episodes. The one where Sinclair takes Babylon 4 back in time metamorphosis into Valen and greets the Minbari boarding party with not one but two Vorlorns flanking him floating above their encounter suits....that episode and in particular that ending scene freaking blew my mind; and still does to this day!

@toddthompson8434

3 жыл бұрын

The Valen line was added in the redone version of the Gathering. Its a retcon. Sinclair wasn't originally going to become Valen. He was going to end up fishing.

@Kazemahou

3 жыл бұрын

@@toddthompson8434 Yes, this is true - Michael O'Hare, the actor that played Jeffery Sinclair had a psychological breakdown due to mental illness, and he couldn't continue, so they had to write him out. Because of that, we got the absolutely perfect Bruce Boxleitner as Sheridan. But, I honestly believe that the genius solution of how they dealt with the characters of Sinclair, and then Sheridan made the show even better than the original plan. Sometimes accidents and tragedies force creativity to reach even higher and to better places than had they never happened. The result, I would argue, is that Babylon 5 exceeded even the original concept it started with!

@Armageist

3 жыл бұрын

@@Kazemahou Was very disappointed when Sinclair was replaced.

Every show on cable that tells a multi-year story arc owes its existence to this masterpiece of television writing.

@Areanyusernamesleft

3 жыл бұрын

Well at least in the USA.

This show is a must watch. The entire series was WAY Before it's time. Keep listening to side conversations when a character is walking around. It will give you clues to what is happening. A side conversation you hear in one episode will be a main story line in future episodes.

@CinematicComposer

3 жыл бұрын

Ahead it ’s time* :P

@dinkledankle

3 жыл бұрын

@@CinematicComposer 'Ahead of its time' and 'before its time' are both functional in this context. Its concept was ahead of its time but its creation was too soon, i.e. before its time.

@impishrebel5969

2 жыл бұрын

No, it wasn't. It was precisely when it was meant to be. If people think it was ahead of its time, then that's because society has slid backwards or has a distorted perception of what constituted normalcy back then, which can be understandable given how *little* progress has been made in the last ten years. 2001-2011 is what I call the "dark age" of television when everything seemingly got replaced with reality TV shows and promising series were either axed after one season or (more often the case) were produced but never saw the light of day. The 80s and 90s were times when quality still mattered and produced countless great shows and movies, which is why (if you haven't noticed) the filmmaking industry has been doing non-stop reboots instead of producing new material.

@maintaint3003

2 жыл бұрын

@@impishrebel5969 _"If it works, it's obsolete"_ -Marshall McLuhan

@whyjnot420

2 жыл бұрын

@@impishrebel5969 Damn straight. Maybe in terms of technical stuff with the cgi it was ahead of its time, and I would love to see what the CGI would have looked like if they had made it today. But in terms of the story, it was a perfect product of its time. One thing though, there are rare instances of things that are perfect products of their time, yet timeless at the same time due to their ability to continue to have relevance long after their own time had passed. My favorite example of this is the constitution of the US. I doubt B5 will be able to remain relevant for over 2 centuries... but it has managed over 2 decades so far and that is pretty good. Those things which somehow become timeless, even for a generation or three, can easily be misunderstood as being ahead of their time, due to the fact that they stay relevant in one way or another. caveat: I say this as someone who was a teenager when this show aired. addendum: Also do not forget sequels and adaptations along with the soft and hard reboots.

Babylon 5 is the best written series in sci-fi history and Londo's probably the greatest character in it.

@Rschaltegger

3 жыл бұрын

MOLARI!!!!! There is one better...G`Kar..or rather both make on hell of a TV show

@Ahris22

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rschaltegger I like both but Londo's fate just made me feel more for him. ;)

@bryanwatson1917

3 жыл бұрын

Londo and G'kar together have one of the best villian redemption arcs in television history. Only the fact that the arc wouldn't work without the both of them do they lose out to Zuko from "Avatar: The Last Airbender".

@chris5701

3 жыл бұрын

@@Ahris22 as londo said he's caused too much suffering to not pay a price.

@DragonJohn

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rschaltegger for some reason this makes me want to see Londo and G'Kar in a remake of "the odd couple."

So sad the amount of these great actors are no longer with us! Such a great show

"But if you killed your car, none of those colonists will get out alive" I like automated subtitles😃

@TheFallenFaob

3 жыл бұрын

even better is Mr. Ghettobaldi

@spaceexpireaudio666

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheFallenFaob oh yeah that`s also cool

@zedvar3806

3 жыл бұрын

Hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@CNNBlackmailSupport

3 жыл бұрын

Automotive subtitles, you mean.

@paulcoy9060

3 жыл бұрын

From that great old show, "My Mother The Narn".

Sure, it's foreshadowing, but when it happens, it happens some way entirely different. The thing that really strikes me: Londo knows that he'll die killing a Narn. He meets G'kar and he knows who that Narn is. There's the old wars and oppression, the skirmishes, and just imagine all this history and hatred through which Londo is viewing his own death. He's got to have absolute certainty about *why* they kill each other, because Narn and Centari is only going to end one way. Knowing you'll kill each other no doubt puts any relationship off on a bad foot. But despite his vision being 100% correct, Londo is 100% wrong about what really happens. It *isn't* out of hatred. They're allies working together to thwart the Drakh and the Shadows, to save Sheridan and Delenn.

@jimofaotearoa3636

2 жыл бұрын

Londo calls him "old friend" at the end when he tells him what they must do... Its a beautifully tragic scene.

@whyjnot420

2 жыл бұрын

@@jimofaotearoa3636 Those two are written to be different like brightness values for what is black/white/grey. They are the same but different, and not in a Batman/Joker way (where I would use sides of a coin for the analogy). It really is great writing however you cut it though. Combined with a great pair of actors to give them life.

@danielboatright8887

2 жыл бұрын

Its even better because Londo has been enslaved by the Drakh, and in dying at G'kars hand he takes back his freedom.

@tjtenser7828

Жыл бұрын

and that's also the genius of the writing of this show in effect.

@davfree9732

10 ай бұрын

Londo was under the influence of a parasite, to keep him in line and compliant. Heavy drinking quelled the parasites influence, but it would always take control again... Thus Londo's hands were wrapped around G'kars throat... But it was not Londo but the parasite that was trying to kill G'kar.

A season and a half later G'kar would have to be talked down from trying to kill Lando while Narn lives were at stake.

@jamesneese7663

3 жыл бұрын

the irony and hypocrisy of Londo in acting this way when powerless, but like a vicious and coldhearted once given power. Many see it a tragic, but it was mostly karma.

@MrPartisanhack

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesneese7663 Both characters get karma. Gkar who is a villian first season finds himself the last remaining free member of his government after his homeworld is bombed. Londo would in turn see Centauri Prime bombarded towards the end of season 5. Londo himself while he becomes Emperor oversees a very isolated Centauri and is under control of the Drakh so has little freedom.

@tanyairwin3695

3 жыл бұрын

*Londo. Lando is from Star Wars.

@Krahazik

2 жыл бұрын

@Mainframe V76 I don't think the iron of his situation vs past decisions was lost on him.

The chemistry between the actors on this show was just one of the many things that made the series so great.

It's a damn shame that so many of the cast have died since the show ended production.

It's amazing how G'kar killing Londo goes from "Well obviously" to tragic as the story and their relationship progresses Another nice thing that'll come up again later is Season 1 Episode 5, when he is being tortured by the assassin: "The pain must be overwhelming. Why hold it in? Cry out, ambassador. With luck, someone will hear you." "I would die before giving you...that satisfaction." That little line informs how at another time the proud warrior guy G'kar has a whippingly hard time giving someone else the satisfaction of a single scream

@rcschmidt668

3 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of another scene and is still better than Picard screaming, “ There are four lights!”

@LordPhobos6502

Жыл бұрын

Re-watching that scene in season 1 is blood-curdling, knowing what happens later when someone else wants 'just one little scream'.

Babylon 5 Has some of the best character building/story arcs in all of cinematic history.

@paulmichaelfreedman8334

Жыл бұрын

Star trek also did a damn fine job with TNG, and Person of Interest was also extremely good at fleshing out characters.

The depth of the storytelling throughout the series is why B5 is one of the best shows ever written.

Whats interesting is that in Londo's vision he sees the event but not the situation. He has no point for context in it yet he bases his opinions of G'Kar on it.

@jmackmcneill

3 жыл бұрын

To be fair, there are a limited number of ways to interpret being killed. The actual circumstances were pretty outlandish.

@Areanyusernamesleft

3 жыл бұрын

@@jmackmcneill Correct, but it is a deeper reflection on the importance of context.

@RaphaeldiSanto

3 жыл бұрын

That was always JMS' attitude towards "spoilers". I'm going to terribly mangle the quote, but he basically says: I can tell you what is going to happen. But without context, it's meaningless.

@rizon72

2 жыл бұрын

At this time Londo is assuming its a struggle between two bitter enemies. He couldn't imagine its a struggle between two friends and a keeper.

Also: the genius casting of Walter Koenig as "Alfred Bester," (named after the great sf author), with the same accent he used as "Chekov" in Star Trek. (And later we see Ivanova reading a book by real-life author and show consultant Harlan Ellison.) The relationship that develops between Ivanova and Ms. Winters is brilliant and deeply moving, as is the portrayal of telepaths Winters and Mr Gray as sympathetic characters. I love the scene where Gray openly criticizes his boss as lacking compassion.

@JnEricsonx

3 жыл бұрын

Yup, played by Jeffrey Combs. One of his rare but enjoyable more good guy roles. Got to meet him back in 2008. Hadn't watched Justice League Unlimited yet, he was AWESOME as The Question.

@grayscribe1342

3 жыл бұрын

Alfred Bester, the author who invented the idea of a PSI Cop. That's the difference between an homage and a rip-off. Straczynski always tried to show where his inspiration came from. The great machine on Epsilon 3 and the Krell machines in 'Forbidden Planet', the similarities of the Leonov from '2010' and the Omega Destroyer. On the latter you can even see near exact same shot of the Agammemnon over Jupiter in 'Messages from Earth' as we saw the Leonov over Jupiter.

@jayfredrickson8632

2 жыл бұрын

Ellison had a cameo in one episode, I think he was a Psicorps guy when they brought Garibaldi back after he was temporarily under Shadow influence. In a scene where Garibaldi is being wheeled in on a stretcher he's there.

@fiatmortem5128

2 жыл бұрын

I think bester was one of my favorites. When you see Winters, you think, hmmm, humanity put a pretty strong leash in this unbalancing ability. Then you meet Bester and realize, welp, not so much...

@explorer47422

2 жыл бұрын

Always irked me how they 'killed off' Winters. Like she was there one moment then gone the next. Wasn't she supposed to have carried Kosh's soul? I can never remember.

Babylon 5 is one of the greatest sci-fi series ever. It's starts with things that come to fruition later. It's like chess!

I remember the old site "The Lurker's Guide to Down Below", and would scour it for hours on end after every episode. It pointed out things I missed and even now, knowing about them, I still sometimes have trouble picking up all the details. I would love to see a collaboration between Ron Moore of BSG and JMS of B5...that would be something truly and amazingly epic.

@jparks6544

2 жыл бұрын

lol. Ron Moore is from Deep Space Nine. He's the one who stole the ideas from B5.

@kfeltenberger

2 жыл бұрын

@@jparks6544 And your point is?

@pwnmeisterage

2 жыл бұрын

@@kfeltenberger BSG (2004) started off strong. But it was evident by middle of season 2 that they were struggling for ratings, floating just ahead of the axe, constantly inflating the story and fishing any make-it-up-as-you-go-along hooks they could reel in and out to cash in on a week-to-week basis. Probably more the fault of the studio execs than the showrunners, but the reek of amateur low-quality desperation still showed in the shows.

@kfeltenberger

2 жыл бұрын

@@pwnmeisterage BSG had to contend with writer strikes which caused severe disruption with the plot, pacing, and timing. The first two seasons were good, but things really fell apart once they settled on New Caprica. IMO.

@steveaustin2686

2 ай бұрын

I think you meant The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5. That website is still mostly up.

This show lived in the shadow of Star Trek.... such a pity. It was brilliant.

@piotrd.4850

3 жыл бұрын

I pity only one thing: amazing as it was for a time, I'd like to see those actors and everything with today's CGI on pair with Expanse / SG:U etc / BSG

@Benjaminy2k

3 жыл бұрын

Hey, it isn't some deep space franchise!

@Scottlp2

3 жыл бұрын

@@piotrd.4850 Everything is a product of its time. You can't have today's CGI without the obligatory post BSG reboot grittiness or 2021 wokeness. No thanks.

@Mike80528

3 жыл бұрын

@@Benjaminy2k Deep Space 9 was such a pathetic ripoff of B5 (literally). It had it's *moments*, but was just meh.

@joshuabanner9920

3 жыл бұрын

Is it the very least deserve equal credit along side deep space nine. Which also underrated but less then this great show! Deep space nine is my favorite show of all time by the way.

You still can't beat Londo's quote to Vir - "What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy!?"

@jackcozad6345

Жыл бұрын

Don't give away the homeworld!

It's incredibly frustrating that none of the networks gave BABYLON 5 a fair shake, it was originally slated to be cancled after season 4 forcing writers to fast track and abandon several story lines Crusade was mishandled, the made for TV movies and the Legend of the rangers were laughably under funded in the VFX dept especially and the Lost tales should have been allowed at least 3 volumes imo

@Karajorma

3 жыл бұрын

Crusade wasn't mishandled so much as deliberately sabotaged by a network who didn't want it and were trying to force JMS to pull the plug on it.

@triandfit1

3 жыл бұрын

I really wanted to see more episodes with the new command crew. I also didn’t like how they blew up the station because it was a navigation hazard....I would think you could avoid a 5 mile long space station orbiting a planet pretty easily.

@MrAlBester

3 жыл бұрын

@@triandfit1 I agree though I wonder how things would have played out had The network Not rushed the writers to close out the EA Civil war along with the other plot lines at the end of season 4 (they weren't planning a season 5 with rumors of cancelation)

@Karajorma

3 жыл бұрын

@@triandfit1 It wasn't that you couldn't avoid the station itself, it was that if you left it empty it would quickly become used by pirates and raiders.

@LibraGamesUnlimited

3 жыл бұрын

@@triandfit1 Reading that made me flash on that bit in "Austin Powers" where he's slowly moving toward that guard in a steam roller and the guard just stands there screaming. I don't know why. :)

Everyone talks about a reboot, but really, it would be most likely a tragic mess. I doubt anyone could recapture that magic today

@krillarbran

3 жыл бұрын

no reboot, I agree thank you. I would not be interested as this show is fantastic as it stands.

@ryanjay6241

3 жыл бұрын

@@krillarbran remaster plz instead ... I know they said an HD remaster will never happen. You can always hope!

@rkjbr

3 жыл бұрын

They could remake the CGIs and remaster the filmed sequences.

@matthewteague623

2 жыл бұрын

Right? It would be absolutely criminal for them to try to cast new actors for G'Kar, Londo, Delenn, Vir, Lennier, Morden, Bester, and so so SO many others. A remaster, sure. But a reboot? I can't see it. Maybe if they wanted to do a concurrent plotline about events on Earth/Mars with a totally different set of characters, maybe. Or something 200+ years further in, when all the B5 principles are long since dead. But nothing could or should redo the original show with different people.

@burningsodium

2 жыл бұрын

@@matthewteague623 Babylon 5: The Next Generation

Ah yes... always the thrice-damned paper work! The writing on this show was incredible! Thank You, JMS! And Thank You to all the actors who made these characters what they were!

@cherokee43v6

2 жыл бұрын

The primary reason not to want to rule the world... (better to be the puppetmaster behind the guy with writer's cramp)

This just proves that the best shows start out with a PLAN. Not just making up random stuff as they go, and hoping it all comes together if your cram it in hard enough.

@JesseMcCullough

3 жыл бұрын

It wasn't just a plan, it was a well thought out one and JMS was flexible enough to make it work when the unexpected was thrown his way. Not every producer/show runner or writer is good at that.

@actionsub

3 жыл бұрын

@@JesseMcCullough AND he had plans built in just in case something happened to take an actor out of the show: Sinclair: reassigned to Minbar and replaced by Sheridan Talia: the "sleeper" assassin story Vir: the temporary assignment to Minbar (Furst was also working on a sitcom for CBS that failed)

@JesseMcCullough

3 жыл бұрын

@@actionsub And even though he's written out of the main plot for the next couple of seasons, his arc still remains relevant to that plot. Earth and Minbar are at war, and it's pretty epic. Then they capture this one Terran and discover... he's got a Minbari soul "WTF?! We're killing our own? This has got to be a clerical error. They're looking into it? Great. They said he's WHO now? Okay, we're calling a time out until we sort this shit out."

@safsren

3 жыл бұрын

someone should have sent the memo to Kathleen Kennedy when they started on the Star Wars sequels

@cbalan777

3 жыл бұрын

@@safsren To be fair the original Star Wars movies were largely made up as they went. The problem with modern SW isn't that they didn't have a plan as much as it was basic incompetence.

What makes Babylon 5 so special is that you can tell they knew *exactly* where the show was going from the beginning and they worked toward it. There are numerous instances of foreshadowing and ancillary dialog that is far more important than it seems, on top of multi-episode and even multi-season story arcs! The show is the opposite of True Blood/Lost in storytelling, where those shows had zero clue where the story was heading and just tried to make it exciting week by week.

@bolagg

3 жыл бұрын

One of the best instances of knowing where something was going comes from the Alien device introduced in season 1 as a healing instrument, used again in Season 2 to save Garibaldi, and then lying dormant until it was truly needed at the end of Season 4 by Marcus. That is also a truly fine example of having extreme actions require equally extreme sacrifices.

This was my absolute favorite show of all time, and probably always will be. Lando and G'kar made the show extremely interesting, especially with the added foils of Vir, Lenir, and Na'toth. Garibaldi was a strong supporting character for the grand play, and always tried to do what he could to bend the rules in favor of the "good guy", where everyone is a 'sometimes villain'. It was campy at times, and sadly the CGI didn't age well, but it was fantastically written and the actors sold it well. The show basically pioneered the modern episodic drama format, with a cohesive story from end to end, replacing the old format of "monster of the week" shows and dramas in which episodes could be aired in any order. It was also the first sci-fi I had ever seen that actually payed a nod toward semi-realistic ship designs and physics, where every other show of the time pretty much just used "space magic" to explain how things worked (The first time they showed starfuries I almost cried because someone finally got it right). It was gritty, and beautiful, and the only thing that has entertained me anywhere near as much has been the expanse, though I think the nickelodeon original avatar series was also incredibly good, especially considering the range of mature topics the show covers and the target audience. I guess I tend to gravitate toward excellent writing over sticking to a specific genre or subject matter. It is rare gems like Babylon 5 that give me hope for a future where we still have such amazing writing and storytelling, despite the recent surge of mindless "entertainment" with no cohesion or character development.

Londo and G'kar character development and story arc was amazing in B-5, this show was light years ahead of any TV show of its day and I really hope this rumour of a reboot is happening.

I miss Jerry and Andreas, thank god we still have Peter and a few others.

@DavidLee-df888

2 жыл бұрын

A LOT of the cast of B5 has gone to the Galactic Rim...

@JnEricsonx

2 жыл бұрын

Glad I've met Peter-at first literally on line checking into the hotel for a con I was gonna meet him at. Either I asked the time or was asked the time, and suddenly realizing I was meeting the person I was there to meet. Thankfully I didn't lose my shit. I also met Andreas-lost his autograph sadly, and didn't have a camera to get a photo-pre smartphones and digital cameras were expensive.

@JnEricsonx

2 жыл бұрын

@@DavidLee-df888 Too damn much IMHO.

Wow. I have seen the 1st run and a rebroadcast on a sci-channel. This is the 1st time I *heard* this, And got the reference. WOW. Thanks for posting this segment.

I've watched the series well over 20 times, there is foreshadowing throughout the entire series, it's wonderful!

@ML-yn9yu

2 жыл бұрын

This is what happens when you plan out the show from start to finish instead of making it up as you go.

@pointingtowhatshouldbeobvi9430

2 жыл бұрын

Same 😋 The best sci-fi show ever made.

And then when you watch the pilot and Gkar casually mentions how his people don't have psychs since they were wiped out....

@stonehorsegaming

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't know that... incredible foreshadowing.

@EpicNinjaShiro

2 жыл бұрын

@@stonehorsegaming I'm pretty sure there's at least one thing in every episode that foreshadows something specific or a concept/theme that's important later.

The 2 unanswered questions are: Whatever happened to Drall and the Great Machine on the planet and who won the tribal war between the Green vs Purple?

@MrTimboz

2 жыл бұрын

I have wondered the same,,,,,

@doctoronishispsychosislab1474

2 жыл бұрын

wasnt drall used in the movies to fight some thing like Third space maybe

@lightwoven5326

2 жыл бұрын

The Great Machine's job was to pull B4 back 1000 years, it was a closed loop like Sinclair/Valen

@larryshaffer4741

2 жыл бұрын

Purple won on B5, after Ivanova visited the dye person in the Quartermaster Corps

@oculosprudentium8486

2 жыл бұрын

@@larryshaffer4741 She forced a victor for Purple in the station, but what happen on their homeworld after the 1 yr of conflict between the colors?

Having never seen this, and therefore zero context: These two gentlemen are obviously angry about their hairlines.

@hariman7727

3 жыл бұрын

Babylon 5 is a good series. I recommend it.

@jackochainsaw

3 жыл бұрын

You should see the Centauri women, if you think the Centauri men have an issue.

@aprilvoecks5877

3 жыл бұрын

Ah. I think the "foreshadowing" mentioned is from either in the same episode or later that same season. The hair dude (Londo) was asked why he hates lizard dude (G'Kar, not in scene) so much. Londo has the ability to see his own death. In ~20 years, they will both murder each other with their bare hands, strangling each other. The two are political enemies, their planets each want to nuke the other if they could get away with it, Londo wants to avenge his nephew, AND he wants to kill G'Kar before G'Kar kills him in 20 years. Lots of motive to kill another ambassador.

@GhostRyderFPV

3 жыл бұрын

@@aprilvoecks5877 I think I'll queue this up after my current re-binge of Enterprise! Thanks guys, I watched some previews, it looks pretty sick! Very political, didn't expect that from a show of the time period.

@aprilvoecks5877

3 жыл бұрын

@@GhostRyderFPV. It can be rather dense material. Universe setup: There are so many races and cultures that wars keep happening between species/planets. Earth builds a "neutral ground" space station called Babylon to be kind of a space UN (and working station/city). The first 4 never got finished. "It's our last best hope for peace. This is the story of the last of the Babylon stations." Some episodes are about the city/station and some are about the politics/ambassadors.

This show had so many great characters 😊

I'm actually glad that HBO Max picked it up. Now many others can experience it's rich story and fantastic characters.

@barence321

3 жыл бұрын

Major props to HBO Max for using a version that was upgraded to HD, with better sound, but otherwise left almost completely original, unlike the travesty that is the remastered "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."

@Deinorius

3 жыл бұрын

There is an HD version of Babylon 5? Wow! Wouldn't have thought, that's possible. Any Blu-ray plans?

@namelessandsouless1

3 жыл бұрын

@@Deinorius It's on HBO Max for the HD version. It's sharper, but still uses the same CG. As for the blueray, I gave no clue.

@danielinfanteperez11

2 жыл бұрын

Not in LA... damn. I LOVE the series, I know a lot of speeches by heart :(

@AshwinRamdin

8 ай бұрын

@@DeinoriusThe Blu-Ray is goig to be released this December.

There is a moment in the pilot movie between them that perfectly set up Londo, and the Centauri in general. Him remembering the last glory of the Empire. “My god, man, we’ve become a tourist attraction. Come see the great Centauri Empire! Open nine to five... Earth time...”

@jedironin380

3 жыл бұрын

We were very good sharks... once.

@ravenhull

3 жыл бұрын

@@jedironin380 that’s the scene.

@alanparsonsfan

2 жыл бұрын

What is the name of that movie, and where can one find it, if you know? I must have seen it once, because I definitely remember that line about them being a tourist attraction!

@ravenhull

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanparsonsfan, Babylon 5: The Gathering And cool username. ;)

@alanparsonsfan

2 жыл бұрын

@@ravenhull Thank you, AP is another criminally underrated enterprise.

what's even more amazing is the foreshadowing between ivanova and talia. her distrust towards the character and her telepathy to result in *spoiler* hell what's even creepier is the "there is a hole in your mind" quote in the gathering said to sincalir and we all know what happens to sinclair irl. and we all know jms had an out for every character but who would have known that he would actually need to use those outs for some of the main cast even before season 2 *edit* imo "there is a hole in your mind" sets up the entire show. that one line

@andrewshouse9840

3 жыл бұрын

I just want to know what were the "trapdoors" for the alien Ambassadors. I'm guessing new characters instead of their aides assuming the roled but what would they have been like?

@Verse99

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewshouse9840 if you’re talking about G’Kar and Londo and delenn then I don’t even want to imagine the show without Andreas Katsulas and Jurasik. And of course Mira. *edit* bill lummy and Stephen furst were quite excellent tho and could have very easily filled their (londo and gkar) shoes

@andrewshouse9840

3 жыл бұрын

@@Verse99 Oh I'm not talking about the quality of the actors, but the characters. Ta'lon instead of Na'toth for G'kar, for example. Course, now I'm wondering if the crew at the end of the series (with Sheridan's salute to C&C) was the replacement cast. I just don't see either Lenier or Vir, initially low-level functionaries with little political influence, warranting the significant position of Ambassador just because they happened to be already in place?

@leodouskyron5671

3 жыл бұрын

@@andrewshouse9840 the ambassadors had aids that could step in (at least in the beginning) and the characters can be rewritten out with various things. This actually happened with Sinclair (RIP) because of his actor’s rl medical problems.

@andrewshouse9840

3 жыл бұрын

@@leodouskyron5671 Except that didn't happen. When Sinclair wa reassigned we didn't get Cmdr Ivanova, we got Capt. Sheridan. For Delenn, I think it would have been Neroon, honestly.

I love this series. A lot of the main cast has died, makes me sad.

@jedironin380

3 жыл бұрын

To absent friends, in memory, still bright. :'(

@acyour

3 жыл бұрын

Year and Mira passing away just this January. She was the heart and soul of the series. May they all Rest in Peace.

@jamesaron1967

3 жыл бұрын

Well, it premiered three decades ago, that's a long time by any measure.

@mayra3277

3 жыл бұрын

@@jamesaron1967 That's true, but other shows from the same era or even before (take the Star Trek series as an example) have had way better luck. And most of those who died were fairly young (at least from the main cast).

@jamesaron1967

3 жыл бұрын

@@mayra3277 I guess it depends on how you view age. Not sure about the other actors, but Katsulas was 59, Doyle 60 and Furlan 65. Although not in their golden years I wouldn't call them young at the time of their passing. They were all older than I am and I certainly don't consider myself young, not by a long shot. Katsulas' passing did strike me as a bit of a shock. I guess what surprises people is the number of dead actors who had roles in B5.

Most underrated sci fi of all time...first 4 season might be the best story arc ever in a Sci Fi series. For me only the 03-09 BSG series was on the same level of story arc. The higher knowledge in this show is under the surface but if you can see it you know (same with BSG) Londo's foreshadowing is a perfect example. He knows How and when but not why

@JainaKeria

3 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't say underrated, more that it had no franchise. There wasn't really any spin-offs like Trek does which means it has slowly become forgotten.

I think the thing that stuck with me the most about this show, was how the roles changed between Lando and G'Kar. When the show started G'Kar was presented as the normal untrustworthy alien-type. bearly human looking for we, the viewers would normally have a negative take on the character and over look that he might not be the "Badguy". while Lando was, (the more human looking alien) was presented as someone that we, as human, can root for. Watching their roles reverse, over the seasons, was masterful. Lando and his humanish ppl were shown to be not so good, and the Narn, shown to have a honorable spirit that most can relate too. Their fight to gain freedom from the Centurei was epic. Still remember the episode where Refa got his in those catacombs. Yeah, B5, was beyond great, and I have not seen any show, SF or other, that has matched it in the years since.

R.I.P. Jerry Doyle So tragic he passed away so early.

One thing I always loved about the Series... If one were to keep a weathered eye out, while the episode unfolds, even if it is in the background and or just a few seconds of footage or a few quick lines of dialogue, there is always something in every episode that furthers the Season's Story Arc and there is always something that furthers the Series Story Arc

Garibaldi never enters a conversation without knowing where it's going, but he always leaves room for the other person to disappoint him.

I'm glad the show came out when it did. We had full seasons back then. Now they are half as long or less. It wouldn't have been enough.

@Karajorma

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know about that. Season 1 has a lot of fluff in it that while great for establishing the characters, doesn't move the main plotline on much. Season 5 also had that for different reasons. So if the show was being made today with half-sized seasons I think it would still be doable. The main reason is that after Season 1 the show often had mid-season episodes that moved the plot on so much that they would be a season finale on other shows. Coming of Shadows in S2. Severed Dreams in S3 Into The Fire in S4 (although you'd need to pad out the shadow war a little) Intersections in Real Time (The place JMS actually wanted to end S4) From there you could trim out a lot of the telepath stuff and make a straight run to the end or try to come up with a suitable mid Season 5 finale. The only real issue is coming up with a Season 1 finale 10-12 episodes in. Maybe Signs and Portents based.

"...what is built endures, and what is loved endures. And Babylon 5... Babylon 5 endures."

I scroll through the comments and many of them are like a year old. So 2021. And people still remember B5 and revisit it from time to time. Now that’s a pleasant surprise.

The VERY best show EVER on tv... EVER!💜🖤💜 Rest easy, Jerry... Rest easy old friend...

@bb22602

10 ай бұрын

And Michael, and Richard, and Andreas, and Tim, and Stephen, and Mira, and Jeff...all the dear ones who have gone beyond the Rim...

@testicularoxide5055

10 ай бұрын

@@bb22602 😔😔😔AMEN😔😔😔

Brilliantly written show, with the most fantastic "great arc's" written in from the beginning. The "what do you want" line to Vir - and the "your head on a pole" line kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZGmTl8N7nrCup6Q.html has to be amongst my favourites.

@Zaluskowsky

2 жыл бұрын

Yes!

@siegeperilous5786

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed great line, like Lando`s " my shoes are too tight and I have forgotten how to dance ", all in all a damn well written show.

@DawnOfMutilation

2 жыл бұрын

I almost fell out of my chair laughing the first time I saw Vir "waving" at the head

At it's time Babylon 5 was the best written show ever. It had a beginning a middle and an end. Excellent stories, acting was superb.

This show always reminds me of 2 things. 1. This show beats all the other space operas as far as the word "saga" is concerned. 2. The Amiga kicked butt back in the day....

It also foreshadows when G"Kar wanted to kill Lando and Sheridan stopped him with essentially the same argument. The very first lines of the show set up a nice, little mystery as well. "I was there at the dawn of the 3rd Age of Mankind." We had no clue what that meant - maybe primitive, then civilized, then fully part of the galactic society? Nope. It was never mentioned again, either, until right at the end of the third season.

@waltermc3906

3 жыл бұрын

The Entire series is from Emperor Lando's Perspective, as he recounts all that happened just before his fated encounter with GKar.

Such a good show, I love how far ahead they planned for certain plots.

🏍️ BABYLON 5 and NORTHERN EXPOSURE were my favourite shows of the 90's.

I honestly don't know who could fill Jerry Doyle's, Peter Jurasik's, Andreas Katsulas', or Mira Furlan's shoes with the roots-up reboot that JMS is planning. Even Richard Biggs' character, Dr. S. Franklin, is the only one I can see playing him. Each cast member brought amazing talent, fire, and authentic performances that made me fall in love with B5 back in '93. The people that will be cast in their roles are going to have some very large shoes to fill. However I will throw this out; since tragically, Michael O'Hare suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, Sinclair was not meant to leave the show. It would have been interesting to see where JMS' might have taken Sinclair's character, if he even appears. I wonder what O'Hare's 'Sinclair's' character story arc would have gone, had he not had mental health issues. Now Sheridan's story is also a little interesting particular w/ "Bureau 13" ("A Spider in the Web"), and how he acquired the information pertaining to its existence. That and how Talia was created, operated during her time on B5, and what the stated goals were of "Bureau 13". At any rate for the reboot to prove its worth, they're going to have to put some extremely talented actors in those roles, and have exceptional stories. I'll wait eagerly, to see what JMS brings to the wide-screen soon. Side note; may those that departed our life for the next have eternal peace and love. I also hope that those left behind find a modicum of solace that their loved ones touched millions of lives, and will live on forever on Babylon 5; the Last Best Hope for Peace. ✌☮

@stevekillgore9272

2 жыл бұрын

So very true.

I did not realize till the final episode that the series is Londo's story.

@probang2866

3 жыл бұрын

Sorry: "Londo´s", not "Lando´s". Wrong franchise... - from a galaxy long time ago and far, far away...

@atillafiliz6591

3 жыл бұрын

He does mention to Sinclair that Centauri have visions about their deaths.

@KILRtv

3 жыл бұрын

Each character had their own arc, though. I never saw one character above another. I have never seen another show where a character at the beginning is a different person (better or worse) at the end. That is the mark of a good writer, characters, and story. Written just like a book. Compare this with Lord of the Rings or The Wheel of Time. Each character went through trials and were different by the end.

@triandfit1

3 жыл бұрын

I always believed it was Girabaldi’s story which saw him go through different trials, then finally live a happy life, married to Elise and having a daughter.

@porticojunction

3 жыл бұрын

The final episode is Londo telling his grandchildren the story of the last humans. He outlives them all.

This is why I use “Babylon 5” when I talk about the difference between adventures and campaigns in Role-playing games like “Dungeons & Dragons”, “Call of Cthulhu” and “The Babylon Project”. Adventures are like a single episode and campaigns are like a season. The adventure might me a one-off story, with little or no relation to the entire story arc of the campaign, or it might be building up the story arc.

The music of B5 has always managed to captivate me no matter how many times I watched it.

It took a few episodes...but once the actors fleshed out their characters and the writers started developing an interesting story arc I was hooked. This is one of the forgotten gems of the sci-fi genre. I still have not seen this in syndication after its departure some 20+ odd years ago!

This and the election just shows you they had a plan the whole time. Season 5 was unexpected to the story.

@r.l.royalljr.3905

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, the last half of S4 was intended to be S5, but they were told at the start of S4 that they wouldn't be renewed. S4 and S5 were collapsed into what we got, and only after it was done were they told that S5 was approved and they had to rush out an entirely unplanned script (in the sense that it wasn't preplanned and integrated like the rest of the series) in order to finish it on time.

@guspaz

3 жыл бұрын

@@r.l.royalljr.3905 It was hardly ideal, but it wasn't quite so bad: they finished the main arc early by cutting out planned non-arc episodes from S4 and S5 and combining the two season's arc episodes (and dropping some planned threads that were less important), so they weren't really compressing the episodes themselves too badly. Then when they had to do S5, they still had the non-arc episodes from season 4 and 5 that they had skipped. That said, it was still disruptive, and the quality still suffered for S5.

@spejic1

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, season 5 is vital because you don't get the full Tragedy of Londo Mollari without it. There were also lots of story elements related to Lennier and Garibaldi that were strongly hinted at in the previous seasons but left hanging at the end of season 4 that rose to the front in season 5.

@TheMelbournelad

3 жыл бұрын

@@spejic1 it’s good. Got to tie up a few loose threads.

@Malky5279

3 жыл бұрын

I've never rewatched season 5 because it felt like such a drop off in quality. I think I rewatched the last episode which I believe was shot for season 4 originally and held back once they got a reprieve. Ivanova leaving was jarring and it was a shame they disrupted the natural flow of what was originally planned. Season 1 was good, season's 2 and 3 were excellent gand deserve to be talked about alongside The Wire, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad and anything else lauded as best TV has to offer. Maybe a couple of hammy episodes let the side done, B5 didn't really get attempts at humour right very often if at all but some fantastic drama. Season 4 was also very good but after the epicness of season 3 it was hard to live upto and the conclusion of the Great War was a little anticlimactic. However it picked up strongly as they dealt with liberating Earth and is still a solid season overall.

ya when you write a series with a beginning middle and end before you start filming you can do cool shit like foreshadowing

@aleccampbell7707

3 жыл бұрын

SW ST GoT later seasons

I'm rewatching it at the moment, and in series 1, episode 13, Lord Kiro complains about how his aunt Lady Ladira told him one day he will be killed by shadows.

Joe Stracynski had the whole book written before they started shooting, every character's arc, every major plot point. He did a brilliant job.

No amazing foreshadowing is the fact that Skeletor from He-man hates spoo. And JMS explained what spoo was 11 years later on B5 kzread.info/dash/bejne/iqeHsMqCqJyThJs.html babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Spoo

@jacksmith4460

3 жыл бұрын

hahahaha

@jedironin380

3 жыл бұрын

10 credits an ounce, if you can believe it! - Bo

Awww man, back in the days when writers could actually write.

@matthewcorcoran2891

3 жыл бұрын

When writers weren’t left wing activists disguised as writers.

@akeel_1701

3 жыл бұрын

@@matthewcorcoran2891 you mean "hacktivists" yeah?

@ashlevrier

3 жыл бұрын

@@matthewcorcoran2891 that's why I dont watch most new stuff. The last show I watched was the mandolin and it's not well written but better then most. ☹

@waltonsimons12

3 жыл бұрын

@@matthewcorcoran2891 You're being silly. They aren't "left wing activist." They're just people whose model of how the world works is different from yours. No sense in getting triggered about it. If you don't like it, don't watch. Maybe write your own screenplay instead; it's cheaper and easier to make your own movie or TV series nowadays than at any point in the past.

@ashlevrier

3 жыл бұрын

@@waltonsimons12 wow the if you dont like it make your own excuse. It's the truth that far left crazies have taken over entertainment. Dont believe me. Ask your self this. Can Hollywood today make blazing saddles, or a war movie that makes China the bad guy? If no then I am right.

Man I love this program. And there are many that I feel that way about. This was such a great ensemble cast and the story was so deep and layered.

I'm watching this for the first time on IMDB TV. Enjoying every episode so far.

If Molari hadn’t blinked, if Garabaldi had shot him, would the Shadow War been stopped cold, or would it have been far worse? :-)

@ivorbiggun3873

3 жыл бұрын

Worse. - Cartargia would have "ascended" on the ashes of Centauri Prime. - Refa would probably be the Shadows' puppet with no Londo about. Iirc it was his idea to use Mass Drivers. - The Drakh would have settled somewhere else. Earth/Mars probably (there were keepers on people on Mars, so Drakh must be about). - G'Kar wouldn't have taken Dust and had his revelation. - Narn would still be occupied or exterminated by the Centauri instead of freed. - Vir wouldn't have gone to Minbar so no Narn underground railroad. - When Sheridan/Delenn time-jump to future Londo, there would either be no planet or a much less sympathetic Emperor waiting. Worst of all there would be no Londo/G'Kar banter

@RBAWintrow

3 жыл бұрын

@@ivorbiggun3873 Very good analysis!

@jedironin380

3 жыл бұрын

@@ivorbiggun3873 Well done, Sir!

@samsonguy10k

3 жыл бұрын

I've thought on this. There was no way out for Centauri Prime. Blood was going to be spilled. Londo taking the throne gave his people a fighting chance to live. And that is the greatest thing a people can have. He did bring greatness back to Centauri Prime.

@CrutchCricket

3 жыл бұрын

@@ivorbiggun3873 Actually most of that wouldn't happen. No Londo to answer Morden means no Centauri getting in bed with Shadows which leaves both them and the Narn stuck where they are. Unless Morden finds another suitable candidate, which could be from either side. Or the League of Non-Aligned Worlds even. Difficult to say how things go from there but it's probably not the best ending. Maybe Shadows win, maybe it's just another cycle.

Babylon 5 was a superior production in almost all ways, imo. The entire series was written before it even started filming. They foreshadowed events that didn't happen for several seasons. Most shows just wing it from one episode to the next. Way, way, under appreciated.

Londo and Garibaldi both understand the inevitability of "doing what has to be done", so they never waste time complaining and just get to it.

this show was ahead of its time, so much talent with great stories loved it.

I love this show

So Lando Mollari and Lando Calrissian get their clothes from the same spot...

B5 was my favorite space show, such an amazing show. you have to watch the full run twice, once to watch and the second time to miss all the little bits that point to the future of the show. IT is all their even in the firs season there were hints of what was to come.

Man almost done with my rewatch of this great show. Used to stay up to watch it monday nights on TNT with louis and clark and WCE nitro!

It's almost like JMS had the whole major arc plotted out from the beginning.

@piotrd.4850

3 жыл бұрын

This was basically cornerstone of difference between ST and B5 - first was focused on single episodes with rare and short story arcs. B5 gave up episodic approach.

@jparks6139

3 жыл бұрын

@@piotrd.4850 You are so fucking wrong. Season 1 was almost all episodic. Season 2 started the arcs going. Season 1 had to introduce the characters and world. Get it right before spewing such shit.

The full FX sequences probably still look pretty bad, but the remastering for this scene was superb! Looks like they just made it! One thing is, though, that they shot the live-action scenes in 16:9, already anticipating the then coming HD standard. If they could use those prints, and then re-do the big special effects sequences, a la the remastered Original Star Trek, well then THAT would be something to see! I recently watched the full series in SD via a filler cable channel (Comet) and it was STILL amazing! Better than 25 years later and the story of the last of the Babylon stations is beyond anything else on TV, before or since!

@viksox13

3 жыл бұрын

I caught it on Comet , too. Did they screw up the 2nd to last episode in your area, too?

@jjones2582

2 жыл бұрын

I'm hoping as they work on the reboot, maybe they'll slyly redo the original CGI models on the side. Then by the end of the rebooted series they will magically have updated effects shots for the old series too where they can easily cut and paste a new remastered 16:9 release.

I get is a luxury most people don't have, but it is indeed possible, and this exactly why I waited for 30 years until my entire Conqueror of the Sun series was finished before I publish the 7 completed books in a single day. I think to most, it is obvious that the degree of story depth is dependent on the planning, but as I said, I can admit not everyone can do this, but this what I love about B5, he did plan on a 5-year story from the beginning.

Both of the Ambassadors are amazing, loved them.

I always loved this episode even as it got only middling reviews on the Lurker’s Guide. It fully set up the interaction between Londo and G’Kar (as well as the entire Centauri and the Narn races) while introducing the Minbari and even the prototypical Vorlon reply. Kosh: They are a dying race. Sinclair: Which? The Centauri or the Narn? Kosh: Yes. It had to hold me enough to get through the next 3 increasingly bad episodes before the great “The Parliament of Dreams” and “And The Sky Full of Stars”.

@LibraGamesUnlimited

3 жыл бұрын

What's funny is, and I never really noticed this until now, but Dylin (probably butchering the spelling on that one) looks pretty different between the pilot and the series (not uncommon for shows). Her cheeks and chin are more pointy in the pilot, I almost thought it was a different actress except for the voice.

@skepticalfaith5201

3 жыл бұрын

@@LibraGamesUnlimited Yea, they made major changes in Delenn’s look between the pilot and the Episodes.

@LibraGamesUnlimited

3 жыл бұрын

@@skepticalfaith5201 I would say so. Her original look was very angular and jagged. She kind of looked like Doomsday in the face. :)

I was just looking at all the episodes of season 1. I only don't like Believers and Infection, the rest are really good. I don't know why people say season 1 is the weakest and worst. It is literally a season made to develop all of our favorite characters through different situations. And there is an insane amount of details and jokes going in that season. Outside of the 2 episodes I mentioned that I personally don't like even though Franklin is getting very well developed in them, I don't think season 1 could get any better. Extraordinary work was put into this show from the very beginning, and it will always be in my top 5 shows ever if not the number one.

@Missmori

3 жыл бұрын

Season one set the scene for everything that came after. all of the disparate storylines and loose threads, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM set the scene for something amazing later on.

@captmoroni

3 жыл бұрын

“Infection” set up the Omega X fleet in Season Four, the Crusade Season One (midseason?) finale, and the Season Two Technomages’ flight from known space.

@Petrosman

3 жыл бұрын

@@captmoroni how did it setup those?

@captmoroni

3 жыл бұрын

@@Petrosman Infection's about Earthforce integrating alien weapon's tech. 1) Clark's Omega X Destroyers use Shadow "skin" for their hulls. 2) In Crusade (unaired episodes, the scripts were available online years ago), Gideon finds a secret Earthforce base studying Shadow tech, using it to enslave people. 3) He learns that the Technomages' magic is Shadow tech, and that they left known space not only to escape the Shadows, but to escape Earthforce. ("We would not have our knowledge lost, or used to ill purpose" - Elric, Galen's Technomage mentor.)

@Petrosman

3 жыл бұрын

@@captmoroni yeah, that's all true, but what does it have to do with the episode in season 1? I agree only with the first point, but the other two are kinda not fitting.

Signs and Portents, Indeed, Ty

Just started rewatching the show. It's so good.

This doesn't foreshadow anything. The foreshadowing occurs in the newsclip right after this scene.

@Jbluez1

3 жыл бұрын

Lol really? 😂

@Trekki200

3 жыл бұрын

You do realize what that appointment is, that Londo says he'll have in 20 years?

@ValRoyD

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trekki200 No, I don’t. What is it and what does this scene foreshadow?

@Trekki200

3 жыл бұрын

@@ValRoyD this will obviously be a spoiler, so you have been warned: This conversation takes place in 2258, Londo and G'Kar kill each other in 2278 (not in Bad blood however, but to end the Drakh and save Sheridan, Delenn and their son David).

@ValRoyD

3 жыл бұрын

@@Trekki200 Cool, thx. Don’t know if I’ll ever watch it, though. I hated Deep Space 9 and have always put Babylon 5 in the same category, but some of the comments people have posted has changed my mind some. Thx again.

My favorite foreshadowing scene from the pilot is when Lyta is connecting with Kosh, and sees the assassin try to kill him. Kosh greets (not) Sinclair with "Entil'zha, Valen" before the disguised assassin shoots.

@aleccampbell7707

3 жыл бұрын

Immortality formula Kosh *nope" you aren't ready for it yet

Fore"SHADOW"ing... nice!

The greatest sci-fi ever. I still have everything B5 playing in a perpetual loop on a Linux box even after all these years.

--- In awe of a classic, I hold little hope that production companies could ever do this work justice to bring new efforts to current year audiences. - Current year Critics don't critique, they demand conformation bias. Thus Critical acclaim is unreliable. - Most current year Producers want to preponderate pioneering commodities, shilling plagiarized retcons. Destroying Iconic classics, of which they could not hope to originate to begin with. So instead of competing with a classic, they Reboot it, retcon it, & ruin it. -- Studios abuse IPs to platform signal on a soapbox for narcissistic self worth boosting consolation. Because they would never be honestly praised without shill bias, Not for coming up with authentic, original content to begin with. - Thus they don't caretake the cult classics properly. & can not be trusted. --- We can't leave it to the mainstream shills to rate this show for what it's worth. & should be weary to let them get their infantile finger paint riddled hands on it. - It would be like handing the Mona Lisa to a toddler, Giving them Crayons, & telling the kid to restore the painting for future generations. --- Star Trek, Star Wars, Ruined by infantile crayon graffiti.

@adamlhayman

3 жыл бұрын

The only thing I would like to see as a "reboot" is to remaster the live action pieces from original film to look better on modern HD screens, and then absolutely go nuts with modern cgi on those parts. Perhaps even replace the matte painting in the office with cgi of the internals of the station. But I honestly don't think a viable replacement for most of the cast could ever be found. Especially for Londo, G'Kar, and Vir.

@x64600

3 жыл бұрын

@@adamlhayman That would be more of a restoration remaster, & Touch up. - Remastering the audio, - Restoring the visuals - Touching up the CGI scenes, with newer visual FX. - That sounds great, wish they did that more often, than. Reboot, Retcon, Ruin.

@alanparsonsfan

2 жыл бұрын

Incredibly, this did not happen for BladeRunner 2049. I had concerns going in, but was astonished at how well it was done. The same is mostly true for Dune.

@x64600

2 жыл бұрын

​@@alanparsonsfan Apropos prose, I'm about to watch Dune (2021,) But I'm not sure it's possible to do Dune justice in media format - Even the (1984) effort, while a cult classic, failed in the box office. - The 2000/2003 mini series all together was 8-10 hrs long & is hard to find now. - Condensing Dune into a movie was never seen as practical to begin with, early efforts falling apart before the 1984' version made it through production limbo. - & I'm hearing from family who just watched the movie, that for them, it was "Convoluted" & boring." - Though the space opera trope is mostly palatable to most aficionados of the niche sci-fi genre to begin with. - I/E; What's boring to a Normie, might be interesting to my geeky tastes. - I'm just hoping it's not infested with shill hypocritical Political correctness platitudes, - We don't want that dead horse of a controversial clickbait '15 minutes of burn the old IP fame' that the media production industry seems to be high on these days. 🤑

@alanparsonsfan

2 жыл бұрын

@@x64600 Yes, the Dune book is a massive epic, and a challenge to film. Will also note that I did not see the 2000/2003 mini series. That said, the 2021 Villeneuve Dune film is the first half of the book. His intent, I think, was to introduce viewers to the world of Dune. What it is like, both for conquerors and oppressed, and how House Atreides is experiencing Arrakis, going in. Having seen it in full IMAX with a recent Dolby sound system, I can say that there were times that I forgot I was in a theatre, and felt like I was there. In a word, Denis' goal of immersion was a success. For many today, the idea of entertainment is Explosion-crude jokes-Explosion-lame surface dialogue-Battle-inanity-Explosion. These people will not be capable of enjoying this first half of Dune. The second half, which thankfully has been greenlit, will contain much more action, exposition and battle. And, hence, be more accessible to shallow minds. The above set of expectations is also, I think, why BR 2049 did not do remotely as well as it deserved. Like the original, it will probably be gradually discovered and appreciated over time.

To clarify something being discussed here: It’s not the case that the entire series was written before filming started. To begin with, JMS had just a general outline - nothing even vaguely like full scripts - and some of the key events he had his eyes set on, but even many of those changed or got dropped while they were making the series. For example, Sheridan wasn’t part of the original outline - it was going to be Sinclair to the end. Not meaning this as disparagement (I was incredibly devoted to B5 and JMS for several years, read all his newsgroup posts, read through The Lurker’s Guide, had the cookbook, etc.), but to be really honest, we should be able to admit that the level of planning ahead of time was always exaggerated and a marketing tactic - an effective one.

@ishoottheyscore8970

3 жыл бұрын

Yes and no - the coherence of the season arcs is more or less still unique. Even BSG you get the cylon motivations shifting as they try to figure out how to make another season. B5 wasn't completely written, but it did know the end point it was aiming for AND was largely planned what the ending points of the years were, but TV production being what it is, they had to leave some scope for changing things

@DoremiFasolatido1979

3 жыл бұрын

@@ishoottheyscore8970 Yeah...but the problem is that there are too many fans who think the whole thing was legit fully planned out from the start. Which just isn't true. . What's ironic, is that I still think B5 did better than most of its counterparts, in any era. The writers and such were simply better. The false belief that the whole thing was fully mapped out from the get-go kind of cheapens the work they did at the time to make the show as good as it was, and the talent they displayed in doing so, I think.

@Alsadius

3 жыл бұрын

Writer*s*? JMS wrote something like 102 of the 110 episodes, and his wife did a few more. This is part of why the story worked so well, and also part of why they could advertise that way in the first place.

@ishoottheyscore8970

3 жыл бұрын

@@DoremiFasolatido1979 It was much more defined than most - if you want to compare it to almost every sci-fi series since it has a much stronger sense of coherence because a lot of the key points were known. It wasn't entirely fixed (JMS even talks about his system of trap-doors for characters), but it was fixed enough that the show benefited. Compare that to say Dark Matter, Killjoys, Orphan Black and even shows like BSG and The Expanse which is finishing before it starts to deal with the Cthulhuesque elements it has introduced. The thing is, you can have a good idea of where you want to go but still get in a mess. A lot of people go after the adaptation of Game of Thrones, but in truth it's a lot cleaner than the books which have so many red herrings and shaggy dog stories that it's going to be impossible to wrap up cleanly. GRRM knows the ending, but he has to clear out stories like the dragon horn (preferably in a way better than the horn of winter was just written off), and with the various secret Targaryaens like Young Griff. I strongly suspect that is part of his writers block - he knows he is painted in to a corner

@hariman7727

3 жыл бұрын

JMS wrote in options/trapdoors in case actors got sick/quit/etc, so an actor leaving was never crippling to the story of Babylon 5.

The benefits of long term plotting. Straczynski had five seasons of plot set out BEFORE he went anywhere near production. And he even allowed "escape hatches" for himself, should actors become unavailable and need replacing. Just look at Michael O'Hare & Claudia Christian; one left because of health issues, the other due to failed contract negotiations. Both were replaced and the story continued...

One of the best shows ever. Tears come to my eyes.

Wasn't the entire show planned since day one?

@hagamapama

3 жыл бұрын

It was painted in broad strokes, but the fine details were hashed out at the time, with JMS being willing to grant the writers and actors liberty to add their own flourishes

@Batalia122

3 жыл бұрын

@@hagamapama it was also one of the few shows that were granted the time to completely tell the story. Some shows like Farscape, where they killed off the main characters then cancelled show never got to tell their full story arcs. Farscape was lucky that they created Peacekeeper Wars but many like SGU never had a chance.

NOt that amazing when you consider he had teh entire 5 year story arc planned out from day one...

@richardkenan2891

3 жыл бұрын

Having an entire 5 year story arc planned out in advance is amazing in its own right.

@ArkadiBolschek

3 жыл бұрын

What _isn't_ amazing about that???

@grayscribe1342

3 жыл бұрын

Rarely mentioned, but he had also pitfalls ready so he could quickly write out any of the main characters if necessary for any reason. As far as I know he needed 2 of them. The one for Jeffrey Sinclair and Talia Winters.

One of the Greatest Serials! 🤠

Subscribed instantly when I saw this. One of the things I absolutely loved about B5 was the outfits, can you imagine if star wars or star trek used those outfits and hairstyles?