Don't let the robots win! 😆Practice and share your music with others on Tonic: tonicmusic.app/join-in

@dux_gaming5

4 күн бұрын

I’m a big fan of you, I use tonic too, can you follow me my tenth birthdays tomorrow pls thx if u do

@Ethanviolin0320

3 күн бұрын

Ray, could you make a video where you teach us how to play czardas like a pro? I’m currently working on it

@lilys946

3 күн бұрын

Yeah

@CharlotteKwok-rd2xe

3 күн бұрын

I am in tonic already ❤❤❤

@vesselinatp

3 күн бұрын

🎉

this is SCARY as a composer…because people who we will work for might not be able to see the difference between AI and human…this is a fear becoming more valid by the month

@ericbernardi8116

3 күн бұрын

Sad but true 😢

@platedpen

3 күн бұрын

ai is g

@VictorIbelles

2 күн бұрын

Orr you can work faster by using ai and just making corrections

@ericbernardi8116

2 күн бұрын

@@VictorIbelles yes but... That's actually editing, not composing 😐

@rykehuss3435

2 күн бұрын

If youre scared of AI, then you must not be that good of a composer

*But who knows ai is secretly checking this video for information where it lacks?* 😅

@Zareh_Abrahamian

3 күн бұрын

AI sucks up whatever is posted on the internet and there's no escape for humans.

I went 5-0, "guessed" correctly. I don't think I can say my assessment is better than Ray's, but it did came down to "feeling". The 3rd one, the 2nd romantic felt well structured, human touch indeed. And the last one, the 2nd song felt uplifting and a bit more distinguinshable.

@dmt472

3 күн бұрын

Agreed, the AI generated music will play the right notes in their own independent bits, but it doesn't feel like there is a 'purpose'/'idea' to it, which makes sense... since there isn't, it's just a generative algorithm. Just like pretty much all AI generated stuff, it seriously needs an editor. Also I think pop music could be the hardest one by far. The tracks are generic enough already

@Tweeteketje

3 күн бұрын

Ah, but there are 6 rounds ^^

@Ryan-ds5zc

3 күн бұрын

Yeah, Ray seemed to be more focused on the technical aspect of the playing, whereas I thought most of these were pretty obvious from the composition side. The AI tracks can never put together a cohesive melody.

@Zareh_Abrahamian

3 күн бұрын

@@Tweeteketje I think the commenter meant the 0 as the one they did not guess right. Definitely the human touch! I guess they pass as not AI for the time being.

@Tweeteketje

2 күн бұрын

@@Zareh_Abrahamian yes, so it should be 6-0 ☺️

In my opinion, yes, AI can do what it's capable of, though with error, but that doesn't mean it can replace music forever.

@meks039

2 күн бұрын

Exactly. AI only makes new things based on pre-existing genres, or if you ask it to make a new genre, it makes something thats a mashup of existing genres and weird sounds. It takes humans for a true musical shift, like from baroque to classical to romantic to contemporary to jazz to rock and pop.

@neilcam

Күн бұрын

@@meks039 Sadly, you grossly underestimate the enemy. Those things it can't do now, it soon will. It's really advancing at that rapid of a rate. I'm not sure what the solution is, but complacency is not the answer.

I wonder: If the AI generated score would be interpreted by an orchestra - would we still hear a difference? For me it was the playing more than the score itself.

@seveera

3 күн бұрын

I think there would. I personally had to ignore the sound because when I noticed distortion and mp3 artifacts in the recordings, those made me think for a moment it's the fake. Then when thinking about the quality of the writing, like the 'noodling around' Ray mentioned, it became very obvious which ones were created by AI when the phrases would lead to nowhere.

@blauespony1013

3 күн бұрын

@@seveera That's exactly the part I am talking about, because the "noodling around" might be fixed with musicians who can elevate those loose phrases or at least lead them somewhere. And I know that is not always possible, I had one piece by an amateur human composer that simply ... could not be fixed/unnoodled so to speak.

@seveera

3 күн бұрын

@@blauespony1013 but I think the musicians could only fix the noodling or phrases that lead to nowhere by ignoring the integrity of the composition, then I don't think that's a fair thing to do in a comparison of what composers are able to do vs AI. It would be like having a 3 year old scribble on note paper and then have musicians just play whatever. Then going like "oh wow the 3 year old composed that??" would be really unfair I think 😸

@blauespony1013

3 күн бұрын

@@seveera Not what I meant. They should not change the score. But interpretation of a piece can change so much (just listen to a piece as midi score vs. the same piece played by actual musicians).

@seveera

3 күн бұрын

@@blauespony1013 Oh I totally get that, but the aimless noodling around to me has nothing to do with interpretation. That would be a melody written in the score, and an interpretation in my opinion should not change that, that's kinda what I meant by integrity of the composition. Like I get some accents or if looking at the baroque example a turn could be interpreted differently, but you still wouldn't change the progression of a melody that's actually written down in a score

I'm an opera singer - my performance repertoire is over 50 arias composed by Mozart, Bellini, Puccini, Rossini, Verdi, Vivaldi and dozens of other composers - I sing in ten languages - and like Ray, I can distinguish between the music composed by robots vs. the music composed by humans - but probably soon, this distinction will no longer exist.

Early Classical-era DOES sound a bit more Baroque. It's technically "Galant" music - CPE Bach and early Haydn are good examples. Late Beethoven would present a similar problem - too "out there" to represent Classical and also not quite like any Romantic-era music.

@CopShowGuy

3 күн бұрын

That's what I was thinking (must be Galant-style). They pulled from too early in the Classical era. Should have done something more mid-era.

I hope someday you can go to México, you are a big inspiration for the people ! I love your interpretations

Haha 😂 No, you’re not in trouble. My 9-5 job is to help technology industry (and ultimately people) deploy AI. Recently, I’ve also spend some of my free time thinking about how AI can be explored in really cool ways in practising violin, and in classical music in general. I’m not a professional musician, however, I grew up playing violin +10 years, so I do have a hunch what it is about. We often hear comments on how AI will replace people. I don’t believe in it. Not even though my job is to be an advocate for AI. I truly believe that ultimately it is all about how we as humans are able to harness the capabilities of AI to help us out and create value with AI for ourselves. In other words, to identify in which tasks AI is way better and faster than humans, and vice versa, where humans beat AI 6-0. Optimally, by deploying AI we humans have more opportunities to concentrate on the tasks that we love and cherish, and leave the boring, repetitive work for AI. Unfortunately, AI will not play the scales for us, but I think it can help in amazing ways with practicing violin. AI has no imagination and it doesn’t think but it can provide - with its own strengths - new horizons and boost our imagination to the next level. Would be happy to hear about your potential trials on exploring AI to boost your practicing, in case you already have some. Thanks for the great video 👍

@ericbernardi8116

3 күн бұрын

I'd say 80-90% of jobs are repetitive and even now there are not enough jobs for everybody... And in pop music they already chose "perfection" over emotion by tuning every single vocal, all the voices sound the same... Where there is more money to gain, they will... AI isn't bad as well as money isn't but humanity with it's greed and stupidity can't handle it in a decent way 😅 I know I sound cringy but it's like a one way road to a dead end... How can economy grow to infintiy while taking away more and more jobs from an ever growing population? Maybe we should ask AI how to rework our system because the lack of greed and any emotion would lead to a more logic solution... 🤔 (Sorry for the rant 😅)

@southside8551

3 күн бұрын

The problem is not so much where AI is at now the problem is how rapidly is developing and all the dangerous implications that brings, a good number of people seem to be playing fast and loose with AI not really thinking of the ramifications it can bring in the future. I also find this sentence you wrote quite puzzling: "Unfortunately, AI will not play the scales for us," . How is that unfortunate ?, why would you want AI to play scales for you?.

@heliharrikari

3 күн бұрын

@@ericbernardi8116 Thanks for your comments 👍 I fully get what you mean. I also think that if we only try to glue AI into our current society and assume that everything else around will stay the same, the outcome will not be very good. I would hope that AI will be disruptive enough to force us to think also more profound, positive systemic changes needed in the society. Easier said than done though 😊

@heliharrikari

3 күн бұрын

@@southside8551Thanks for your comments. I agree that power always comes with responsibility and it’s vital to consider the ethical aspects of AI. This type of work is taking place in various corners of the globe as we speak. My comment about AI playing scales for us was meant more as a joke; back then I did not enjoy playing scales too much, although naturally necessary 😊

@southside8551

3 күн бұрын

@@heliharrikari It's not purely ethical , there are a myriad of unknowns when it comes to the development of AI and the possibility and dangers of becoming actually sentient. Glad I asked about the scales rather than just assume, it's difficult to infer context on comments sometimes.

Love your videos, Ray! Especially fun were the faces you made when you couldn't tell between AI and human composers! Your critique of why the sound was either AI/human was spot on. I totally agree about the Bridgerton mixing, as the rhythmic part did drown out the melody! The classical examples really sounded more baroque. And the human contemporary piece was, indeed, kind of cool. P.S. I am lucky to get to see you in Concert July 7, playing my fave Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto...so excited!

I think it is quite easy to understand the difference. Especially in old classical music where music tends to be derived from speech and tends to have a rhethorical speaking quality such ML based systems cannot reproduce. With contemporary music it is harder, as there often you need to get the big picture to understand the design. The systems behind this are good at reproducing the generic aspects of a style, which also explains why it works so well for pop music ...

2:19 Sounds extremely baroque to me. I'm somewhat of a professional. I've been baroque for several years now

I got all of them - I went for the ones that I either felt an immediate connection or some emotion to (they also felt like they had a consistent direction or a theme), or that didn’t sound a bit warped between notes/parts.

Got them all. I was applying the same rules I use when either reading or listening to verbal content. AII has weird repetitions. Inconsistent "pronunciations" or throwbacks to something earlier in the content in a way that just doesn't fit - that's why a human editor is needed to polish the content. I had to laugh about your reaction to the Bridgerton theme.. I'm sure I will get lots of negative comments here, but that's the wsy I feel about the whole series - it is artificial and tries too hard to be accurate to/reproduce something it isn't. It's very funny that is reflected in the scoring as well.

“Black Angels” by George Crumb is a phenomenal piece for string quartet- and probably one of the most difficult. Imagine playing dies irae with flageolets while at the same time whistling it in syncopation…

@aveyenx

Күн бұрын

That's really a great piece - and the God-music movement reminds me of Messiaen somehow.

Thoroughly enjoyed this video, Ray! You are the best! 🎉

This is so entertaining. Love the live analysis streams of consciousness.

Actually the Haydn concerto is the C major one not the G major

I’m going to your concert in 6/29! Always thank you for making these videos and doing concerts❤

You are so funny, keep these videos coming please. Thank you.

It doesn't disappoint. It's an unexpected topic, and I'm intrigued.👍🏻👍🏻✨

I suspect that most composers will agree: writing a few measures of music that sounds good is the easiest bit. Developing material into a coherent musical structure, over time, - particularly but not exclusively, in forms from the 19th century on- is the real challenge. I’m curious how AI does with that

@Jasper_the_Cat

Күн бұрын

It doesn't. The parlour trick is to only play shorter bits of music. Go beyond a few minutes and the coherency is lost - unless a human composer is editing in which case it becomes a mechanical turk.

I love this video that was great and I was trying to guess along with you and I think you got more right than I did but excellent. Keep up the good work.

The romantic one I'm pretty sure ended with a slide up to a Bb harmonic, a harmonic that doesn't exist naturally...

Nice video man

Yes!!!! Nailed them!

oh gosh , i need to practice on tonic more often

Really interesting video ❣

Okay, but that AI romantic era piece was kinda fire... any chance of sharing where to find the tracks??

In direct battle, the weight-lifter lost the competition with the crane , the chess master lost in front of the supercomputer, now the composer... But don't despair: there still are some blacksmiths, farriers, steam engine mechanics, chess masters, weight-lifters.

Nicely done...

Scary. Its geting closer, but still to someone who listens to classical music all the time, all of these are still pretty easy to tell.

Very interesting video Ray 👍 Btw the only case I can guess is the Film score. Because I’m a fan of Bridgeton and listened so much cover of this theme so I could know right away.

Loved the video Ray. I went 3/3. ❤👍😃

I really enjoyed the video

I got wrong contemporary and film score. I can still hear the difference quite often, but damn, these quizzes are getting tougher and tougher every year.

The romantic A.I is SO convincing, and it sounds like Chopin.

now this is properly prompted AI music

This was very interesting!

I was half right. I agree with you on most of them.. the one I was wrong on was the contemporary one. I thought the first one sounded like Bartok.

"Stuck in the kitchen of a hotel" is a great title for a song actually!

Bonjour M. Chen, jai beaucoup aimé cette vidéo ! Mais ce qui m'est venu en tête dès le début c'est que AI est bien fait... mais de te regarder jouer, parler et interagir avec nous est bien audelà de ce que pourait offrir les robots. Au fond, je crois que IA essaie de copier ce qu'un virtuose tel que toi arrive à jouer. 😉 ❤❤❤ Attention de ne pas tout remplacer par les robots. L'humain a tant à offrir avec son coeur. 🎉🎉🎉

I think I got 4-2 as well as an amateur listener. I guessed correctly for the Baroque, Classical, Romantic and even the contemporary, have to say there are still lots of areas for AI to improve. But actually I couldn’t tell the difference for film score and pop, maybe since lots of them they are easy to compose and AI can handle this well, no need to bother good human composer to do that 😂😂😂.

This was so tricky!! And actually in the second example, that was Haydn violin concerto no. 1 in C, not G ☺️

The most inportant thing to remember about AI is that at any given moment, this is the *worst* AI will ever be. This was instilled in me at a talk I went to like 6 years ago, well before AI started to make its current dramatic progress. The speaker noted how important authenticity and creativity will become in the future. At some point, AI will be good enough to be indistinguishable even to the majority of experts. Thats why we need to value authenticity and live performance in and of itself.

I started to scare from AI bcz a piece or concerto composed by a wellknown composer. The thing is it took time from him or her like months or years maybe. Now AI is composing a piece in seconds which sounds so good or real like the concerto made by a human. I hope it wont effect the musicians too much

The Film Score got me goo, the human one sounded off! I was able to tell most of them because either the timing or something sounded un-natural in a way. The Lindsay Sterling was easy because I heard the song when it came out, it's in my feed - but if I hadn't heard the song, the production sounds a little AI, AI can do some cool stuff, I think it will make us better songwriters and musicians, because as a songwriter, I can write lyrics and get some inspiration from an AI demos and see if AI can make the flow of the lyrics work, I also compose music on violin and AI isn't helpful for that, when I write on violin or for ensemble it is literally emotion and AI doesn't have emotions, so it's like a computer playing Mendelsohn concerto, it would be technically correct, it doesn't have the emotion that every great player add's to the music and each great player such as yourself, adds subtle nuances that make it great. But that's also why AI is good at pop music because it's just catchy simple melodies, beep boop beep boop Look At Me! Look Look Look at Me!

Round 3 was harder, but what gave it away for me were the weird artifacts of a sound being ambiguous between solo and orchestra on a single note. The film score was definitely the most ‘mechanical’ human example, but still recognizably intentionally human. The others were fairly obvious. In fact, in all of them, the discriminating factor is a clear sense of metric organization in the human examples. The AI can’t replicate what we sense as “meter” because it only hears discrete chunks of sound and cannot organize them into a cohesive whole. The human examples also make better use of repetition as an organizing principle, the Corelli being a prime example.

Juts waiting Ray Chen coming to BRAZIL 🇧🇷

@nicolassantos3362

4 күн бұрын

Play one of the four nights concertos pour violon, every one will love it.

The schubert sounded so relatable, but the AI clip was distant.

I wish you to go to Utah and perform in I love hearing violin concert and I want to play with you but I’m to young to play with you

the Bridgerton one!!

Ray, I don’t know if you read the comments, but can you please do a how to play czardas like a pro(with octaves) Also, I’m loving the Tonic app❤❤

I wasnt even aware AI could mimic music! Also isnt Ray super cute when he stares off into space to think😭🩷 is it just me vjsbakgjxnskfgk

Does any else just hear the track and say I quit Or is it just me

Full score!😊🎉

This was very interesting! I was able to spot all the ai songs.

The 3rd one I guessed right just because the double stops were too perfect and the 2nd one had a mistake.

for film score i felt that the parallel fifths is kinda jarring for the human piece… so I guessed wrong(

What a creative episode! With generative AI rapidly advancing, it’s interesting to hear the musician as Ray share this type of video.

@torch-eh7ti

3 күн бұрын

Nowadays even youtube comments are AI it seems.

7:57 I knew the second one here was George Crumb’s Black Angels because I did an in-depth analysis of it this past semester. But why does the first recording sound like something someone would actually compose today? 😭

I actually like the romantic AI piece 🥲. Where did you find this?

I can tell when a Tonic ad is going to happen lol!

Honestly is quite surprising to see how much AI has evolved is just a matter of 2 or 3 years for us won't be able to recognize the differences between AI and humans, for now though, I think there's a little difference, over all in tonal function and rythm, it seems to me that sometimes the AI struggle to comeback to the tonic chord and do some weird things that spoils the progression, as well as when it works with complex melodies, or the melody or the acompaniment, but something gets a little bit out of rythm.

This is sooo disturbing not being able to spot the difference...

what is the app you used to test ai vs human?

Ray listened rather to the playing. But I think one could also tell by the originality of the melody.

I kept getting wrong until the third time. The reason is that I kept thinking that it was AI that I felt so perfect. From the fourth time, I thought that it was a person who felt perfect and answered it correctly. Indeed, it seems that people are still one step ahead.

I got 2 wrong because of the romantic and the baroque

I got them all right except the movie score round. I recognize the works of Corelli. I just listened to Haydn's violin concerti a few days ago. Something sounded off with Romantic #1. Contemporary #1 was too messy. Shame on the movie round as my wife has been binge watching Bridgerton lately. I guess I never paid attention when she was watching it. Got the pop music right with the same reasoning as Ray. Sounded like her and sounded more articulate and less robotic than #2

When you instantly recognize Lindsey Sterling

Were the AI compositions performed by humans?

Ray says proffesionals like you. Me: But im only in book 3...

The AI interfering everywhere already taught me to ignore too flawless paintings. It is sad, considering some of them might actually be someone's real amazing art... 😐 But I just don't feel like praising pretty things with no heart in them. I might like the way something looks (or sounds) but it's actually the big amount of work and effort and ingenuity it required, that makes me go: Wow!

@MishaSkripach

3 күн бұрын

AI vidual art is very far from flawless!

Black Angels is sooo famous though

Got all of them. Actually I think the same applies here as with music in general. The ai generated just FEELS different. Not human.

Ai imitating Mozart underlines the fact that Mozart created his own style while Ai imitated it.

Awa my favorite. Always makes me laugh.

I got 5 out of 5 correct on 1st attempt. For me, the AI will always sound like its imitating a style but.. doenst quite get it right, similaar to what i would imagine say a 1st year composition student who was asked to write a composition " in the sfyle of"

This genuinely scares me as a composer.

The second baroque is AI…..I wanna play that lol

Genuinely curious what AI comes up with in the avant garde category, and whether it can outweird a Philip Glass or Frank Zappa creation.

what AI was that?

See the thing with AI music is, it makes me not care about the music at all. Like something can sound nice but if there is not a human behind the creation of the music in at least some capacity, I literally could not care about it at all. The human nature of music creation is really what makes me care about the music itself. And I think at least in some areas that is what will save the music world, particularly in performance because if you take the human element out of music, you literally remove its heart and soul. And I sincerely hope because artists are inherently about the human connection that it will keep the human creation of music alive. I compose myself and have also been involved in the creation of new works from composers. If I was going to perform a new piece with my choir and I found out that it was AI generated, all of my investment in the music itself would just die instantly. It’s just a visceral reaction that I have.

The video is great fun, but the comments here are fascinating- a lot to think about, a few different viewpoints and predictions- quite thought provoking. (Still don’t like that it’s happening in the creative arts though)

wait a minute. is this the violinist guy in Arcane?

Fun.

Haydn’s should be C major concerto not G major? My older son is learning G major and My younger son is learning C major now.

This is very entertaining, haha AI vs Human😂

If the AI can do it, I'll give it the credit. Only to the AI though, not the human behind it.

Can AI distinguish between human-composed and AI-generated music?

I’m so sorry Ray, but I got them all correct, and they were all quite obvious to me! By the way, I’m Gina, and I text you and you’ve responded to me many times on Tonic! I play violin.

Its not fir if you chose bach or mazart or brhams or.... Great composer you can see the difrenc so easly

Well I feel proud - I was confident and correct on a few of these, and on one of those (film scores) you got it wrong. Overall competing with you though, yeah nah not so much. Impressive tech though, for sure.

we're so cooked man

AI ones have worse sound quality (not the primary problem) & “melodic” lines that don’t fit. Looks like I got them all. Cool game. Should do again in a year - compare the quality of AI upgrades. Love how you can just pick up the notes & play it right away. Very natural- nice!

Explain how I got most wrong but instantly recognized black angels 😂

Definitivamente da miedo lo que se quiere poder sustituir con la inteligencia Artificial (además de que yo ya vi esa película y no acaba bien para los humanos) 😂

I feel like the big difference is in the melody