Interesting. I'm a former competitive Melee/Project Melee player, and I think I might be able to help you understand why some of the behaviors were the way that they were here. I'm guessing the fact that you de-emphasized the actions associated with wave dashing meant that the AI didn't really learn how to jump. I'm also guessing that the reason your AI did so many smash attacks was because a lot of players use the C stick to do aerial attacks. The C stick is basically a macro for smash attack (up, down, left, right input with an associated A press). So my guess is that this is the reason why you see your AI standing at certain spots under the CPU spamming Smash attacks. It's probably trying to imitate the pro player's behavior of jumping at the CPU and doing an aerial, but you've basically told it never to jump because of wavedashing. Instead, it's skipping the jump input and going straight for the C stick. Alternatively, there's only different kinds of attacks on the ground (tilt versus smash) so a player would never need to do a non-smash attack in the air. If it's not taking C stick inputs as a reference, then it might just be seeing aerial attacks come out with the same inputs that a smash attack would come out on the ground and doing them that way. Either way, the AI sure seems to love doing smash attacks instead of aerials. xD

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

Damn, thanks for your reply, I think you just found what was holding this project back…The training does count c-stick movements so that definitely tracks. One of the inputs to the network is whether or not it is in the air, but I think you’re right in that it *would* jump but because it’s incentivized not to it just kinda goes “idk smash attack maybe?” I’m trying to think and the only way I really see around that would be to collect a bunch of data of games without waving washing, and feed that through without the reweighting. Definitely would be an interesting project with and it would probably get better results, but I don’t know where I could get that much data. Maybe one day with a big enough audience I could ask people to send in any replays they have from before they learned about waveshining. Either way, great insight!

@lemoneproductions420

Жыл бұрын

@@AISpawn Perhaps you could make a macro for wavedashing. Also it would be cool if you made another AI for the character select screen, and it can attempt to counterpick you.

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

Ha an insta-counterpick bot would be hilarious. Also a wavedash macro would also probably work... wish I thought of that. It does potentially introduce the problem that the AI can't "change its mind" about wavedashing, but even then it would be better off. Now about that counterpick bot...

@m0002856

Жыл бұрын

@@AISpawn Id love to help with any insight whatsoever. If there’s anything you want to know about the game that may or may not help, I’d love to answer. I know nothing about coding or programming an AI, but I spent a metric ton of time on practicing Melee. Hopefully my comment made sense since I’m coming at this basically ONLY from the info from your video with literally zero prior knowledge on the topic other than actually playing the game. I think it’s also a testament to your ability to break down all the intricacies of this process into a format that even I could understand well enough give some feedback.

@m0002856

Жыл бұрын

@@AISpawn Can you elaborate on “can’t change its mind” about wave dashing? Do you mean to say that it can’t decide to wave dash and then un-decide to do it once it’s started inputting the actions, or do you mean that it wouldn’t be able to alternate between wave dash lengths similar to how you could only program the AI to recover at a 90 or 45 degree angle?

i loved that part where the AI said "its smashin' time" and smashed everyone in the room

@jamxiety4672

Жыл бұрын

😳

@digiorniboy

Жыл бұрын

Phrasing

@srs6128

Жыл бұрын

shut up bot

@susparia4724

Жыл бұрын

I wish I was in that room when it smashed everyone 😳

@maxprov2YT_official

Жыл бұрын

Better moment was when link joined and said "oh boy smooching time"

8:03 As a Fox main i can confirm this gameplay is optimal

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

Should've just ended the video there tbh

This part of the AI just jumping reminds of that old Copypasta of people saying that they let the bots in the Counter-Strike playing by themselves during the weekend and on Monday the person saw that the bots were not moving "as they discovered that if they did not fight no one would need to die" - Oh! The old time of the internet. All fake but still gold.

Some information that might help you: In terms of complex controller inputs, there is a controller called a “boxx” which is entirely analog, and keeps the important values mapped to a modifier (such as shield drops, up tilts, and forward tilts). There is also a way to turn a keyboard into a “boxx” style controller, with all the necessary inputs to play the game at a high level. Secondly, Slippi automatically saves all game replays unless specified otherwise, so top players probably have hundreds (if not thousands) of replays just sitting on their hard drives. Reaching out to them could be a good way of expanding your database by a large amount I’d love to watch a follow up video that aims to improve on the current model, so keep up the good work!

@idontwantahandlethough

Жыл бұрын

I second the Slippi recommendation. My little brother is in the smash community and pretty much literally all of them use it. I don't actually know how much data you need for this kind of thing, but that _has_ to be enough!

@zxdevoutxz

Жыл бұрын

It’s entirely digital** not analog

Great job! I can see you have a real passion for this stuff, keep it up!

I always thought it would be cool to have a learning AI start from scratch with a basic goal like get the opponent into the blast zone as fast as possible and see what it comes up with. Would it discover new tech? Would it learn to wavedash? Would it tech-chase? It would be a super useful learning tool, especially if you gave it human reaction time and input speed. But I can’t imagine how complicated and intensive that would be.

Being a competitive smash player, this is super dope to see being done. I know nothing about machine learning, but I am curious if it would be possible to do an evolutionary style ai for melee where it's able to learn what to do in specific situations. Melee has many states of play in order to account for, you have neutral, advantage, punish and edge guarding for some examples. Each of those states have moves that are better for those specific situations. I wonder that since you tried to make an ai replicate a pro player, without the ai understanding the context of the move, it turned out the way it did. Maybe an evolutionary model might be able to learn the context of what moves are good in specific states of the game?

Wow, fascinating! Awesome work dude :) (btw I really appreciate the additional information in the subtitles, it's highly appreciated. And they're not auto-generated so that's neat too)

The “code bullet wannabe” bit really got me lol

We now need to create a tournament where different AI's compete against each other. To make the best computer player.

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it would be pretty cool! This is something I thought about as I was making this project, and def wanna follow through with once I have a big enough audience and a budget for prizes.

@superepicproportions

Жыл бұрын

Alt-F4 has made an unbeatable Fox AI, "smashbot", of course it's all hard coded to do something in every situation so it's very different but definitely check it out!

I think this video is awesome and I love everything about it and think the channel is cool! I think you defo have room to grow content creation wise but you have my subscription broski :)

your videos will only get better!! keep up the consistency

I have been thinking about this idea for a while so i am glad to see you gave this a try.

incredibly underrated video and channel, you’ve earned my subscription. i hope you keep up the brilliant content :)

Dude! You should have way more than 800 subs! Keep up the fantastic work!

Nice job man, I got this from my recommended. Hope your channel blows up!

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

🤞day one and this is already my most viewed video so even if it stops here I'm already super happy

@josiahbecker553

Жыл бұрын

@@AISpawn Awesome man! Hopefully the algo keeps it going for you. Best of luck and subscribed 🤞

Honestly super well done! Def a sub these concepts are super cool

I've just gotten into SSBM content recently so not sure if that's why the algorithm blessed me with this awesome video, but I loved it! Great stuff Code Bullet Wanna Be :)

As a Statistics and Data Science major, it’s interesting to see a well explained crossover between my fav game,Smash, and my fav field DL/ML!!

Lol that bug spiral is so relatable. Cheers for not giving up dude, cool vid!

action vs self.action is the most relatable thing ever

dude this is actually so sick. you might get this same comment a lot here (and also you might already know this) but you should consider looking into slippi if you're interested in ever doing more ai stuff for this game in the future from the actual community. slippi offers the ability to play online with other real players so it would be interesting to see how the ai fares against actual players online. there's a discord too where a lot of people are working on ai for melee and machine learning for stats and all that. melee is my favorite game and i'm so happy you've joined this community and learned to love our game. thanks for making this video man this is awesome

"It didn't work, it just resorted to continuously jumping". I don't know man.... that sounds a lot like Melee Champion H-Box.

If you intend to do a sequel to this, I think it would be a good idea to make the control stick inputs more discrete and give it more options in terms of angle and whatnot. I think that you should do it as a polar coordinate instead of x/y like the controller output does. Sticking with your number system, you could make it so that angle is determined with 1-12, and distance from center 1-3, letting it do tilts and angles while keeping overhead simple. It should be somewhat easy to convert the training data from xy to polar

@idontwantahandlethough

Жыл бұрын

That's a neat idea!! I'm about 105% sure there's about 10 different ways I've seen to convert between [the two most common] coordinate systems that I learned in math class but never had a use for, I don't see why they wouldn't work here

@jesusalbertogiraldomendoza9960

Жыл бұрын

@@idontwantahandlethough were does the extra 5% comes from?

@AlexK-jp9nc

Жыл бұрын

I have only ever seen one polar/Cartesian conversion method

I’ve been waiting for this. With Slippi replays you should be able to make AI versions of Top players. That would be sick

Love the content, hope youtube recommends this to more people.

off topic, but the sync between your words and your avatar's mouth movement is fucking nuts. great video. edit from the future: just saw the ai lip sync video and after seeing that its somehow made even more impressive.

this vid has to blow up, great dedication

4:52 that's me! Cool video!

Hi, your video inspired me to try something similar but for smash ultimate. Do you know if there is a library to get the position, speed ect. for ultimate, like there is for melee?

Great video! I'm not going to say much here but this probably would've benefited from training the ai against itself, either way you earned a sub :D

Funny Code Bullet reference, way to take advantage of his poor deprived audience, including me 😅 I'll subscribe for that

Have you considered using the replays to train a relatively small model to predict what inputs are being pressed for a given frame? This model could then generate the inputs for an unlabeled smash video meaning you could use all smash videos from KZread as part of the training data for the main model. OpenAI did this for their Minecraft playing model.

"That would take 83 days. I don't have that time." Also: "3 months of work down the drain."

You said the Fox could only perform one move, but he was clearly using shine into fire Fox each time lol

I’ve done some AI courses over college, not an expert, but I have a general idea of how things go with this. I recommend looking into the programming behind amiibos used for smash ultimate and see if you are able to generate a good idea on how to implement something similar to melee. It’s hard to copy player input when every player does a move differently. You could maybe set a parameter for wave dashes also. Teach the Ai how to do a wave dash and then if it reads the input close enough from the pro player, it will do that wave dash that it knows. Same can go for the rest of the tech in the game. Good stuff regardless! I would be excited to see a series on this. Weekly updates or monthly updates would be sick.

This is really cool, subbed

Why is this so much work for 500 subs, bro this is incredible

how some people can make a science of a 20 year old nintendo game. Lets look 20 years in the future, you see me visiting a master class at the ai Professor online University about quake champions and its philosophy.

Very interested in doing a similar project. I’m familiar with CE, and neural nets. Would love to dive into how you went about this further if you have a chance.

me who knows nothing about computers watching this: "Just show me the robot beating mango"

Hahaha Mistakes like that are why I spend twice as long on projects. I once thought a 5 was an S for my table name in SQL terminal and was wondering for hrs what was wrong with my tables. Good video, hope to work with & learn more from you. :)

If you do more nintendo/smash content, you’ll see a lot more traffic for sure. This video’s going to 10k+ views quick

For a second at thought you said "their philosophies", which probably would be very effective against the falcos

This brings back memories of playing melee with my friends (all older than me) and one was really good until a new challenger appeared that was just as good but also competed in world tournaments. Playing against those two and the other friend (who really liked to use heavy characters compared to fox and Falco for the other two) really helped me get pretty good. I mained Link btw, it was the only character versatile enough to compete with a heavy tank and two fast speed demons.

great video, one question (sry if you already answered) but do you know if the ai uses DI when it gets hit?

High quality! Keep it up

I also created a melee bot for a class project, but it only learned how to jump over lasers or spam smash attacks. For my project I tried learning from a window of (states, actions) -> next action with rnns

Plays just like a little brother would. Spamming one attack

When all of the reinforcement learning just amounted to the agent jumping I COULD RELATE.

my man coded a fucking Amiibo.

This was interesting even though i couldnt understand most of the technical details

Great video! Now I see why it took so long.

i did this same thing with brawl for a school project in 8th grade, cool to see someone else try to do it in a different way

does your ai have to readjust the ram location or does it stay the same even when closing and launching dolphin again?

@AISpawn

8 ай бұрын

I use a library libmelee to deal with all the memory management. However, in modern operating systems, when a program is closed and reopened it is not guaranteed the same memory locations, so the address can definitely move.

@jingleheimerschmit3218

7 ай бұрын

@@AISpawn ok. thank-you.

The return of the king 👑

7:23 I feel your sufering

"you codebullet wannabe" DAMN THE SELF ROAST

criminally undersubbed channel

@rossdafodil7931

Жыл бұрын

oh awesome this got sm more views

The way i would do this is i would first bind all the controls to something the ai could interact with. then, i would make a reward system that positively rewards dealing damage, taking a stock, combos, and character specific options like using super armor or a reflector, and negatively reward taking damage, having its sheild broken, being off stage, and losing a stock. then i would program more niche things such as how to utilize platforms or the ledge. this may eventually cause the ai to become campy and wait for time, so to prevent this, ill make it so if it goes to time with even stocks or a stock deficit, it loses all points if it results in a loss.

Thank you algorithm! Really cool idea! I would love to see more!

Loved the code bullet joke

Pero si al final lees la memoria, ¿qué diferencia hay con el propio bot del juego?

What about classifying different actions together (certain characters bread and butter combos or wave dashing) and assigning them good or bad values depending on opponent location in proximity to a zone around the AI and the opponents percentage (like a likelihood to hit/kill) I don’t know though I don’t really have any experience with anything like AI and it still sounds like it would only work with set characters

@jackcampbell2021

Жыл бұрын

It could also check how many jumps it has at the moment and other things that determine advantage state to decide if it should retreat to neutral and zone or go deep

This AI plays like it really wants to be little Mac 😆. Fr tho this is super impressive, great job!

I love the hours of work, the computer science and all the programming needed, and plays at your 10 year old brother level lol

Btw there is a smashbot ai, and it has competed against pro player and has won!

This is why we are supercomputers, just think about the power it takes to 'adapt'

Watching the AI try to wavedash was cute lol. It looked like when a human is first learning

AI learns how to play smash bros CPUs: Am I a joke to you?

I would love to see a follow up video.

ALTF4 can help you with the AI. Great video P.S. Altf4 is the name of the guy that does the AI for the SmashBot.

@nahometesfay1112

Жыл бұрын

AFAIK smashbot doesn't have a neural network it's just a really cracked cpu, but yeah ALTF4 would probably be very helpful anyhow.

@philosophiabme

Жыл бұрын

ALTF4 is the creator of libmelee which is used in this video as the API to the game's instance.

ai training is just like ringing a million pavlov bells

You have a very charismatic personality and this video was really engaging I'm sure you'll blow up soon enough, I think you need to work on the unscripted portions though, you give a much more introverted vibe near the end which makes it a bit harder to stay engaged along with the person you're commentating with being too energetic in a way that feels off especially since he's sometimes just saying things to say them even when he doesn't really get what's going on. All in all its a good video though

Im trying to figure out how to make a bot thats good at dbfz. Besides having a lot of modding experience in my early 20s with Fo4 and Skyrim, I'm totally new to programming. This is an inspiring example of what I'm shooting for.

Maybe try to incorporate advantage:disadvantage odds, like with stage control, to help the bot better guide itself to exploring good strategies

Would be interesting if it had relatively human limits, so it wasn't just a terminator and it felt like someone holding a controller. So like a built-in delay to mimic a fast human reaction time (0.05-0.1 seconds?), and a restriction on certain input sequences that would be physically impossible. Being visual-only would be super cool as someone already made a bot that reads and reacts to game data instantaneously, and it just absolutely slays in the most unfair ways possible. ...perhaps a mistake percent that increases with every input, that when triggered decreases and does something knowingly erroneous like holding the stick too hard or missing an input...

Hi cool project. If I was doing this, I would get a large set of pro games, use the character positions and state (ie are they on the ground, in hit stun, in landing lag, %damage etc.), and controller inputs, as input to the neural net, and the result of the stock as output. Then I could potentially get a training sample for each frame of each game, although just taking samples when there's player input would be better. You could get hundreds of samples per game across 100s (preferably 1000s) of games. Then the net would learn the likelyhood of the result of each given stock, given the current state and any potential controller inputs, and choose the controller inputs most likely to result in winning the stock.

no idea who you are but now im subbed

Then he found out about Slippi replays... Or maybe he hasn't. That'll help with this process a lot.

You created an amiibo for melee

Why did you leave the control stick directions as yes/no outputs instead of just mapping the values to direction and magnitude? Seems like that would use 2 fewer outputs while giving complete use of the control stick. But I've never programmed anything in my life, so... eh?

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

Great question! This is something called "continuous" vs "discrete" inputs. Discrete inputs, which are what was used here, are like multiple choice questions, there are only a set number of selections. A continuous input is like saying "pick a number 0 to 1, including decimals." There are actually an infinite number of inputs. By inputting a direction, it could be 10 degrees, 20 deg, 20.045 deg, etc. Because I was using state based discrete inputs for all the other things in this project, it is simpler to do the same for the joystick inputs as well given minute changes in degrees/magnitude do not matter.

nice video! :D

0:30 That isn't Super Smash Bros Melee's theme, that Super Smash Bros Brawl's theme

as a web developer the pain and suffering this project may have provoke in you, is beyond my human comprehension

wow. all that expertise and that was the big

I love your videos how old are you because you have a amazing understanding of ia

I wish you'd given it a slightly higher reward for killing after taunting XD

Can you make something like this, but using Lua?

I don't know a whole lot about neural networks but after seeing that they can be used to create something as impressive as dalle I was wondering when someone would attempt this. I commend you for the attempt. I love smash and having better bots would be helpful for practice.

Quick question would it be possible to edit the code to play, SSBU on an emulator using ryujinx. Also i'm a noob at coding so i don't know which things i'd need to change or look at. Any help would be appreciated.

As a thought, what if you ignored actions, and instead trained it to produce raw controller inputs? Stick inputs would just be taking output from the NN, buttons would be done using a threshold.

Great video! I wish you had the computing power to run this at a higher speed or with more options so that it could learn any tech. Since all tech is just based on inputs, if it considers every possible input on each frame, I don't see why it couldn't learn to wave dash. Cool video but it does show why the only people making incredible ais are big company's with big budgets. Your AI may whoop a lvl9 Jigglypuff but it's no pro smasher.

hey a good idea may be to train an ai on a box player so it only has a limited set of analog values to work with

an ai that inputs rest whenever it would land would be insane

Slippi replay files would have probably made training the model much easier

So you just made Amiibo+ Edit: I am your 1,000th subscriber. If you blow up, remember me

@AISpawn

Жыл бұрын

AGHHGHGH!!!! Number 1000!!! TYSM!!!! If you wanna join the discord I can give you the holy "1000th Sub" role lmao

Now verse it against an amiibo

This is really cool shit. I've though about programing an AI to tell me in english how to beat my opponent in real time in a game like Mortal Kombat 11. I would have to find some way to train it (that's the hard part) but then it would also get filtered through an not perfect human too, so I'm not sure it would ever really work. The goal would be to know what the opponent is about to do before they do- pick up on their pseudo-random patterns. If they always try to grab after a certain move, the AI should see that move and tell me to jump out of the way before they have a chance to grab at all, for example. Of course things get really complicated really fast but I always thought it would be pretty cool to have it tell me how to play in real time. There are certain patterns you don't even see after analyzing a replay that an AI should easily pick up on in theory.