I think you're looking at it a bit wrong. They have laser scanners that can 3D map a coin out down to the micron. With that you can just train a computer to detect any moved metal. Then an actual grader can sit at a computer and look at the map of the coin, see all the statistics of how strong the lustre is, how many cubic millimetres of metal has been displaced by scratches, how sharp is the strike. And after a computer lays down the objective truth for the grader to see, they can decide where that data deserves to be on the sheldon scale. I think it'd significantly speed up the process and then you'd not have to rely on the human perception of reality which we know is flawed.

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

I'm excited to see how things change longer term. I'd welcome it, but am skeptical now - I think it could be awesome though! I wonder if they'd need to brand the coins differently (e.g. have an AI-graded label)

@TheWinstonDouble

Ай бұрын

@@TreasureTownCoins Most definitely. I would want it noted that it was computer assisted.

@CoinHELPu

Ай бұрын

@@TheWinstonDouble We can have a grading standard with the current tech, and without AI. AI would help in ID and develop a baseline grade using the scientifically measured metrics and measures of a coins surface, light reflection, wear pattern and contact marks and other imperfections. The use of a laser scanner that scans the coins at every angle mapping the entire surface down to the micron, then "sniffing" the coin for odors from chemical reactions to determine toning origin, using sound to also verify the surface wear pattern. (Each coin would have it's own acoustic measure as well.) We should be implementing all available tech in grading and determining the condition and potential history of a coin. AI would just help sort, verify and keep the system consistent and note any changes to a resubmitted coin. A small print out for each coin that has an issue should be included with the coin, explaining what did or could have happened to the coin. Every coin is unique, like a finger print, and the current grading and value system is out dated.

@TheWinstonDouble

Ай бұрын

@@CoinHELPu Yes I agree. But when the AI is still learning, wouldn't we have to train it by telling it over and over where the data should put the grade until it has enough data to start making it's own decisions? Idk, you would know better how to implement the technology. I'm just on board with the idea that it should be used. I find it very exiting!

@CoinHELPu

Ай бұрын

@@TheWinstonDouble AGI would be used instead of AI, but it would never stop learning. Scientific measurements and mapping the coins surface would supply the grade and condition. We really need another system that is scientific. It would be like X's and O's for computers. It can be accomplished. with or without AI, but AI would help with it.

Christian, thank you for your information you share with us. I’ve been a collector of 50 years, but hadn’t done anything until 2 years ago. Seeing your videos and one other gentleman are very informative and not loud and noisy so thanks

If AI is used instead of people than the service should be cheaper. But we all know they won't do that.

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

That would be interesting

I agree with TT"s assessment. The real litmus test for true "AI" in grading would have to compete with human graders and outgrade them on a consistent basis. Only then would you have to sell that product to the industry, get most everyone professionally grading coins fired, recycle all the coins that aren't graded by "AI" even if it did catch on, and foist a new complication onto every collector's collection, that doesn't sound fun that sounds like a mess. it's going to be a torpedo in the hull of the hobby. If you don't know whether your coin is beautiful or not you probably shouldn't be collecting coins. Many collectors rightly don't care about exact grade. It's subjective anyway, it's expensive, even impractical for people collecting lower value coins even mid-mint common-date Morgan dollars, it's not worth it economically. Does that mean that collecting those coins isn't worth it? Of course not! But to pass the litmus test, good luck with that. Every coin has a different strike, if we're talking microns here, then the variance between strikes across the coins on all surfaces is going to be immense, and yet it's imperceptible to the human eye, and thank God it is, because it doesn't matter to the collector or the collection. What problem are we trying to solve here anyway? That some people gripe about grades? smh Heck that's part of the fun. Solving the snowflakes' little problem to dehumanize/ruin the hobby. Beauty is in the human experience not coinbots telling us what our coins are. Looking at coins is subjective and reliant upon human perception. Arguments for AI being made around here assume this perfectly refined technology, AI's full potential, and pardon me but they're dreaming about centaurs. Centaurs that will eat the children of the hobby. I'm not impressed and I'm canceling AI on this one.

Every time I refresh my page I have to re- subscribe

Interesting stuff!

This is a thoughtful topic Christian. AI is ultimately based on data, and what data is necessary to accomplish task. Ones and zeros do not provide nuance, but can give approximations, not certitudes. Machines are never 100%, but give fractional observations. Additionally, machines do not use money. What is required in judging is a piece of the game. I believe the risk of being wrong makes humans better at human tasks such as coin evaluation. And think about this, AI will not be able to put two coins at the same exact grade, instead the machine will always give a spectrum where nothing can be truly matched. My two cents…

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!!

Genius use of Cunningham’s law

Hi there you did a video for 2003 Alabama quarter with one variety will I found another one on both it was a double nose

Great to address this topic ... I think your answer may be right for next 5 years but longer term I would not be surprised that they incorporate AI into the process. Sort of like a pilot flying an airplane.

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

Good point!

Hey man, i have a really unique set of trinary bills.. not graded or anything, but are in un-circulated condition. 3 consecutive bills, 2 of which are trinary. Much rarer than simlly one trinary. Can we talk by chance? Im looking to sell them

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

I would list them on eBay!

I can't imagine AI coin grading being any more inconsistent than current NGC & PCGS grading.

@mr._investor

Ай бұрын

I am fine with AI grading as long as a human being checks over it

AI (or ‘machine learning’, which is what we’re actually talking about here) could be used quite quickly should an organisation with access to the data (e.g. PCGS or NGC) choose to train it against agreed grades assigned by a competent human. The Controls parameters (e.g. light level used, distance from the coin for the examination and magnification level - there will be others) would need to be universally agreed but once those were in place it would just be a decision on when the sum of the inputted data generated acceptable outputs (i.e. an accurate grade). Good subject 👍 and you make a good point about older and ancient coins - just too much variety and subjectivity for machine learning right now……

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

I'm excited to see how it unfolds!

The grade of a coin is a compilation of various independently evaluated factors. I'm not sure this is something AI - which is really just an adaptive algorithm tied to pattern recognition - can get right enough to rely on 100% or even 99.9%

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

That's what I'm thinking, as the tech stands today.

Ai would be really terrible in coin grading and would takes drvades to learn. The first probelm being grading a coin from different magnifcation levels. 5x 20x 20x 25x. Each magnification makes a coins grade different. Ai i just dont see bring able to manage all the intricacies

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

Curious what they'll come up with!

I feel AI would benefit because there would be more consistency in grading

Like calling strikes and balls in baseball.

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

Good point!

I have to correct you these companies are not grading 10,000 coins a day. Kmon man. You can do the math on pcgs and ngc and their company on the stock market. These companies on most average a day arent doing 10k coins a day....

@TheWinstonDouble

Ай бұрын

They absolutely do. Each grader does about 800-1000 coins a day.

@TreasureTownCoins

Ай бұрын

They're doing a ton!