The Kharadron Overlords without their boats would need a massive overhaul faction-wide in order to get anywhere. -1 to Hit/+1 to Save is the only thing that leaves their fragile troops even somewhat protected, and Skywardens would need to become proper Hammers; 6 Wounds on a 4+ Save wouldn't last long without a Frigate to give them First Strike. The Arkanaut Companies and Thunderers are the only people who do anything while on the ground, and in a ruleset that basically excludes Wizards(You won't take an Arcane Tome when you can get a Nullstone Adornment otherwise), you can't even give them Mystic Shield. While they love to bark commands, they have no way to receive duplicate commands(EDIT: Actually, I forgot about Brokk; he has an ability that functions like this, aircraft only, though). If you wanted to make a ground army alternative, they would need war machines on the ground, not just aircraft, and proper Heroes to support them. An Admiral without a flagship loses value, and Endrinriggers/Endrinmasters would be pointless to run. Even the Navigator loses some value. In a faction with maybe 10 warscrolls that are even remotely attractive, the KO would need some fresh new ones. I do agree they are non-interactive, but they do often have to take a points deficit early on because a direct engagement is suicide. A handful of armies can take advantage of this in the current meta while everyone else is left at a disadvantage, especially if the Battleplan has a lot of Objectives, but Kharadron Overlords often find themselves taking very few losses along the way. In a game as deadly as this, when Round 5 might see an Ironjawz list with fewer models than you can count on one hand, I do see where the KO could use some more interactivity in combat.

@andrewdussault2315

4 ай бұрын

Yeah, GW built the problems into the KO identity. Sadly, like Tau in 40k, the strategy that actually makes sense in reality makes for a bad game experience. Its almost as if they need some kind of belthanos unit that activates a completely different playstyle for the army.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Very good comment regarding Kharadron. I agree the army needs beef if it stops relying so heavily on the skyship theme. But that IS the army. I don't think it will ever change as drastically as I had suggested, but it is polarizing army. Much like the Kroak bomb, your opponent just watches you kill stuff and kind of has to deal with it lol. I love how unique they are though, and the army is not as easy to play as some think. Losing a boat loaded with models and surrounded by enemies can be devastating, and sequencing abilities/ battle tactics takes practice

But....but...I'm a LORD, too. Haha

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Did we miss you in the intro. We are sorry We love you STRIKELAST

Good stuff-Thanks, guys :)

Ill have to figure out twitch now so i can follow or subscribe or whatever the kids do over there. Cool to see Andrew again, it was nice meeting him at LVO.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Https://www.twitch.tv/battleshockwargaming

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Michae here, Im with you DC, i have to learn twitch now too.

I’m glad Sylvaneth saw some decreases but good god we could have used so much more. And I don’t buy this “skill cap” argument. The best Sylvaneth mains were at LVO and went 4-1. The entire faction this GHB has only two 5-0s. Where are these mythical god tier players and why is the 98% paying for their skill expression??

@andrewdussault2315

4 ай бұрын

We may be biased since we hang out with Michael so much and he was top sylvaneth at LVO. When Sylvaneth are beating your face in it messes with your brain.

@Miso29

4 ай бұрын

I think gw wrote rules that they are terrified of and now us normies have to suffer for the good players. Odd choices to buff though, no reduction for TLA or other models that go unused.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Michael here...i agree there should be points drops on multiple units in the Sylvaneth army. The whole plan on sylvaneth revolves around the strike and fade when that does wrong the army is over pointed and can just crumple because it cant take a punch....That being said if they go to heavy and give me an extra 150 points it could get crazy

Cool

The skaven changes are nice! My skryre shooting list went down 60 points for no reason, thanks gw! Thanquol already does so much for the army I can’t believe he went down 30.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Unnecessary change for sure lol. Skryre does insane damage. If you don't kill all of your own stuff first!

1:27:20 I would argue its the slann starmaster.... I will say sylvaneth needed so many other different units dropped in points before the warsong needed it.

@math9856

4 ай бұрын

And 12" range on Drychaxs shooting profile does make her way different than a unit with 24" range. She's got to be close enough for the opponent to easily charge her if she doesn't teleport out, and she is sitting on 10 wounds. Sure would be a steal at 300pts with 18" range for a 12W monster, though!

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

True true, of course she can just teleport into range every turn, and with spiteswarm reliably charge, fight, and strike and fade right back to safety. If judicators could do that I'd take for 400 points lol

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

The Slaan is amazing NGL. The Warsong is so good that it is literally in every single list that Michael plays competitively, so I may he a bit biased lol

Isn't the new nullstone battle tactic just contest. You don't need to have more models then your opponent

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

You are correct, rules as written you only need to be contesting it. Great catch!

How did Blightkings miss out on the 2" range train? /sigh

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

i was also bummed that Ardboyz missed the range train too. but still hyped for nighthaunt

Fyreslayers only have a 1% lower win rate than Beasts of Chaos but boy did they get a lot more love. The changes to Gors and Bestigors are great though. I also thought that IDK would get a lot more love. Unfortunately I think they hit Seraphon too hard but I understand they needed to balance the dumb mortal wound spam. Coalesced almost needs different points for their casters than Starborne. I hope GW can get Seraphon right next edition. I hope when you hit 50 followers I can subscribe with my Amazon twitch membership.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

minor buff for the coalesced and another round of nerfs for the starborn. My guess is actually that starborn are going to be as strong if not stronger because Null myriad and khorne just took nerfs too.

@jamesguillette3878

4 ай бұрын

i think the change to gors is actually pretty significant, giving them 2 inch range means that they can actually competently fight now, which makes them actually pretty decent when reinforced, especially since they can benefit from bestial cunning multiple times in darkwalkers.

@Goon94

4 ай бұрын

@@jamesguillette3878 I'm sorry but I thought bestial cunning only applies to reserve units. I don't see how Dark Walkers would apply to that, it just says pull them off and set them up again. Can you point out a reference to the the combo you are mentioning because that would be great for BoC and I would love to use it.

@jamesguillette3878

4 ай бұрын

@@Goon94 bestial cunning only requires you to be in reserve when you start the game to be its target, and says when that unit is set up at the end of the movement phase, it can be anywhere on the board outside of 7 inches from enemy models, but doesn't actually require the unit be set up from reserves. So you start a block of 20-30 gor herd in reserve and give them the ability, but it never loses it even after the first time it is set up, so on subsequent turns when you pick it to move with your subfaction ability, you then can still deploy it outside of 7 from any enemy models

Relly good review! David, your knowledge in all those armies is impressive! I guess all those games are playing off, but personally I wouldn’t remember half the rules!

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

David is a walking encyclopedia of Warhammer knowledge. He is basically just a blue scribe in real life

@erictrudel1164

4 ай бұрын

@@BattleshockWargaming so true!! And he’s a good friendly guy to t it off 😎

Follower nr 50 on Twitch, yes!

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Hell yeah! Thanks for following :)

Let's go spoopy folk! (Nighthaunt)

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Is it finally nighthaunts time to shine?

@mikelegault9344

4 ай бұрын

@@BattleshockWargaming I've yet to play my first game, so let's not go crazy, but glad Awlrach went down as well. I've been planning to abuse that Dreadblade Harrow combo when I do get to playing. 😁

See they messed up the app so Kroxigors now have 5 wounds but also a 5+ save!

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

oops! We are sure that is a mistake, pretty sure that is a mistake lol

i still worry that command corps will be taken in multiples. just so many damn rules even for 200 points

@andrewdussault2315

4 ай бұрын

Just run like… 6.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

There is also an main rule FAQ that disallows you from picking the same unit to benefit from an ability multiple times. This would stop the multiple healings

Drycha was already one of the most efficient units in Sylvaneth in terms of damage. And she does solid shooting in a faction with weak shooting. And it allows her to stay safe without using up strike and fade for the turn. And she is a monster. And she is a wizard. At 300 points it's no longer "you need to give me a good reason why you're not including her" to just straight up auto-include. At least for me. Loved seeing her in one of your recent battle reports! Looking forward to seeing her in the future!

@rotm4447

4 ай бұрын

300 is still a lot, she's so fragile for her points.

@d.c.4545

4 ай бұрын

People tend to forget that every hero in sylvaneth is 300 pts. So when they change the point value up or down on any of them it doesn't really matter. I might squeeze a spite revenant unit in, if I rework some stuff but otherwise it's just a triumph.

@rotm4447

4 ай бұрын

@@d.c.4545 You could have said that about lady of vines when she was 325.

@RykoCrucem

4 ай бұрын

Imo the warsong revenant is the real auto include. Drychas issue is that she is a jack of all trades that costs 300 points. She just doesnt do enough to justify her costs and her jack of all nature means that she gets outdone by specialist units.

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

Michael here, i love all you sylvaneth people up in the comments. IDK yet, im into dryca but it depends on the the army construction. the warsong kinda fits any army construction. i do like here as a jack of all trades and as a mobile gun platform.

So many things got nerfed over the last month Morathi and the (Bow)Snakes didnt and may return to the top again if people are not bored of this list. For me - I love those models, but running Bowsnakes or Idoneth Sharkspam is just rlly boring. My adhd brain needs more diversity ;)

@BattleshockWargaming

4 ай бұрын

with their top competitors getting nerfed and bowsnakes unchanged they might be showing up in the top spots again soon