I wonder how long the power supplies will last in these devices. And will the failure mode be repeated random tripping, or just loss of functionality. Maybe even having their very own wee arc fault moment inside.

@Monkeh616

10 ай бұрын

Yes, I'd be curious to see what the supply looks like. It is possible to make relatively compact long lasting supplies, of course - we've had digital energy meters (and of course smart meters now) for decades and I haven't heard of any failure sprees, and there's plenty of single and double module active devices in industrial use.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

If only we knew of someone clever who could tear one down to truly see what makes 'em tick...

@JACKATTACKED

10 ай бұрын

​@@dsesuk😂

@jamieblatantsparky

10 ай бұрын

comment from big clive , you made it dad i am so proud

@obd6HsN

10 ай бұрын

Probably quite similar to the newer microcontroller-based RCDs which are fairly well proven?

I quite like this product “myth” busting testing format myself.

As regards the self-test, it will have to do some sensing of the voltage and current waveforms for AFDD'ing, it should also be able to reality-check that these inputs are in a plausible range for normal operating conditions and hence verify that the hardware is working.

Another interesting DSES production. It would be great if Big Clive did do a teardown of a couple of different brands of AFDD. I would be keen to also know what was the cause of the Fusebox one taking a second attempt before tripping. I wonder if it needs a confirmatrion of an arc to prevent false tripping.

@westinthewest

9 ай бұрын

BS 62606 (that table that David flashed up at 09:40 ) doesn't say that a device can ignore a first arc signal, and then wait to see if it happens again.

Great Job David. Fantastic effort presenting the information as you have. Thank you.

Wylex for the win so far! Thank you for the time taken to test these devices, keep up the great work

Just the 20 minute Hagar rant today 😂

If they are putting electronics in there for the AFDD function, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they also used the same electronics for the RCD. Some RCDs & RCBOs already use electronics for sensing rather than being purely electromagnetic. The fact that the LED indicator indicates an RCD suggests the processor may be in charge of everything.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

My description of RCD operation is simplistic; I know from my teardown of one this time last year that there's more to it. The processor will also definitely have some interfacing with it, but I doubt the processor makes any call on whether it should trip. These integrated units are probably much like my Siemens which is literally a standard RCBO with an arc fault detector bolted on. Models like the Fusebox/Hager have just been repackaged into an all-in-one device.

It's interesting to see how all afdds work differently and that they are not armour proof nice to see Mr Marsh dipping his hands in his pocket hope the old fart is doing alright

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

I'm sure Nige has an easy at work... even on the days when the campus isn't being blockaded by protesting students or striking lecturers.

Mate , you are 100% spot on , see testing things is my job and real life testing conditions are the best ! Keep it up bro

Good to see you on Saturday, thanks for the shout out, glad you like the SL lamp and especially that badge, saw it on eBay and immediately thought of you, can't think why 🤣 Hope to see the cats next time we're passing

Thanks David. I enjoy your content. Good work 👍

@dsesuk

9 ай бұрын

Very kind of you, cheers!

You are the man, honestly, gold

I'm eagerly awaiting the Schrack and Schneider tests!

I am very much in the sceptic camp for these devices. My feeling is that its screw connections that is a weak area. That could be solved by just doing away with them entirely and mandating push to terminate sprung loaded connections in switches and sockets instead. To me this is a money spinning solution to a problem wanted by manufacturers to sell more stuff.

One thing David... The water one is perfectly valid. Who among us has NOT seen parallel arcing caused by water ingress

Loving the vids! Keep em coming!

Great video David,you’re my favourite KZread spark.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Well, you're my favourite commenter!

Keep it up… love the channel

David doing the lord’s work. God bless you.

i wonder if the LED looking wrong is down to emergency lighting...

Doesn’t take a bright spark to work that out. The manufacturers are getting in on the game quickly and before the game rules have been written. The first to produce a genuine test is the one. Problem is the manufacturers are all together and taking turns to steer the boat. It’s always been this way. Quite clever really. 👍🏻✌🏻🇬🇧

great video understanding about affd different types

So, what things are most likely to need an afd when they go wrong, washing machine, dishwasher, tumble dryer.... I think the water test is one I would expect the afd to cover. Quite supprised it does not. Great vlog, very interesting.

Intresting video there Davo as always.. now I'm even more curious as to the Hager being a not-fit-for-purpose item.. specially after you reminded me about the whole RCD nonsense as i had forgotten about that as i dont use Hager but if they cant even do RCD's right then what chance do they have of making a working AFDD... i really want Hager to respond now lol

for a paralell arc test would using a couple of lengths of cpc connected by wago's and placed close enough together for the electrons to jump at a relatively safe low voltage or perhaps in a unit so you can crank up the amperage :)

So I couldn't remember the brand the other week for when I used to work in the states (Texas/Cali). It's Leviton that have wireless updating Arc Fault Breakers and Span have whole house monitoring. The also have app connectivity so breakers can be turned off remotely from your phone and other things that have been updated since I moved back to the UK. They are leaps and bounds ahead of our gear and I really recommend checking them out.

@johnburns4017

9 ай бұрын

The USA is leaps and bounds ahead of us? please. Maybe in gimmicks. Whole house monitoring is available in the UK, doing CH, alarms, lights, etc. Not new. Their stuff is 1940s. They have *two* voltages going into a home. Their Lego type of plugs are frightening.

I suspect the fusebox needs 2 arc faults to register a fault (to prevent false trips) like cars and aircraft etc. Just about acceptable for an arc

@alanwalton5735

10 ай бұрын

My thoughts exactly.

@MazeFrame

10 ай бұрын

Makes sense to me. Plugging in switchmode PSUs, they cause quite the spark when they charge their grid-side capacitor.

Keep up the good stuff mate...you make watching dry subjects.....very moist ;)

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Thanks once again old fruit, I'm always happy to moisten you up!

I was a massive hager fan years ago. Then fusebox was selling half there price and i put up with the hager RCD specific test, by buying a new tester but when they reduced the price i was completely put off the fact they have been selling them at an unbelievable over priced amount. I will be fitting fusebox double pole rcbo’s on all new boards now. Good bye Hager!!

I quite like the fact that the Fusebox AFDD doesn't trip immediately. It should reduce false positives!

Just brilliant.....yet again

Thanks for update. Hager had nowt to say. Like all these politicians when it gets sticky. Inspires confidence

Great job David

Brilliant - the reaction to the indicator turning green before you can zoom in 😂

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Blink and you'll miss it blinking.

@Monkeh616

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk The blink pattern is pretty poor, too - is that arc fault a single blink five times, or five blinks with no repeat? There's not nearly enough delay between repeats. A simple button to recall the last trip cause would be nice (none of this bluetooth silliness).

@AndyK.1

10 ай бұрын

I know. It’s not quite panto season yet

Morning Dave, an interesting and enjoyable presentation. Have you considered going into teaching in the future, you could start by being a NVQ assessor for a couple of days a week. Start now part time and get the local college to pay for all the qualifications. When the day comes when your knees or back has gone you can jump into teaching, you've already have the alcoholic issues mad hair and loud shirts.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

I like the dress code and the idea of being acceptably pissed on the job but no, I'm not about to stand in front of a classroom of disinterested yoofs anytime soon.

@stuartthespark

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk a NVQ assessor typically does not deliver classroom lectures. An assessor is contruction site based going round chatting with an apprentice on a 1 to 1 basis and building a NVQ portfolio with them. The highest rate I've seen with an agency is £50 hour. I was just thinking of a plan B for you when the body starts to breakdown. Couple of days assessing, get the college to pay for your electrical courses and a few days on the tools. You will have to tolerate bureaucracy at a level that is staggering.

If I was a brand in your thumbnail I would shit myself 😂

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Cheers for the beer Jimbo. I shall piss it up the wall wisely.

@jimbotheelectrician3819

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk No worries sir 👍🏻

Excellent David as always. Maybe if Hager got rid off the Bluetooth connectivity it will work?

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

I'm getting my clamps onto another one Sean, so I'll see if that reacts any differently. I just remembered - you left me a VM at the weekend! Sorry mate, I've been proper wrecked.

another classic from the AFDD man ,looking foward to the AFDD MAN NUDE CALANDER 2024

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

About time I got some merch on.

In my opinion, the reason why manufacturers will not make the sufficient test equipment for these, is because of the liability put with that piece of equipment. At least for the domestic spark. I can imagine special custom built rack mounted gear being constructed in test labs. Imagine a very old fashioned heat lamp with those carbon rods, similar to what you find in certain batteries. I wonder. I bet one could make such a device. A ballast and two carbon rods, adjustable to move closer together.

Great video old chum. What we need when testing is a good old fashioned gas leak to add a bit of spice to the test…. I’ll get me coat 😂

As the song goes, ‘red light spells danger’ 😂😂😂

That point about programming is quite an interesting one. Plugging in Switchmode power supplies will quite possibly cause quite the spark when the internal capacitor on the high voltage side gets charged, and an AFDD should let that pass. Aside from that though, how does a "bad arc" differ from a "necessary arc"?

@Monkeh616

10 ай бұрын

Duration and energy dissipation.

I live in a property owned by a housing association (flagship) and about four months ago my fusebox was upgraded with a new crabtree one but the spark only put AFDD's on the ring circuit and radials. and maybe the cooker and water heater....I forget and I'm too lazy to go look right now. Anyway I have had one false trigger in that time, not long after the installation, but it's only happened that once.

@AndyK.1

10 ай бұрын

What colour flash did u get

Its all well and good for the likes of Hager to spout that your test rig doesn't meet their specific testing criteria, but any sane member of the public would regard the angry blue pixies dancing in the arc chamber as something that should not be in your wiring. For Hager's device to just sit there and pick its nose whilst there is quite clearly something wrong is just totally nuts.

Evening David…..Monday funday….with sparky parts , 👍😜👌🇮🇲😂

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

It was supposed to be out yesterday for some Sunday Funday, but I couldn't get it together in time Andy.

Electricians such as yourself have all sorts of tools to test EV chargers are safe ,so why the manufacturer doesnt have them for these is an odd one. Well one Dave on highlighting the issue.

Just thought of another test you could try on these AFDD’s. Will they detect arcs at the breaker itself, say said sparky didn’t torque it correctly?

Blue for 'on'? Like we see on loads of electronic devices....and looks kool. Red for fault, perhaps amber for a fault that has not been affirmatively cleared e.g. via a positive button press or some sort of electronic reset to be administered by a sparky?

Oh yes, David, I am member you mentioning your new board some years ago. £1300. Is Wylex brand wasn’t it?

#hagergang 😂 I'm going to test mine now. Maybe they're frantically compiling a new firmware version

You do know you will have to do every brand new now! It can be included in the product standard and marketing! As passed by David Savery.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

I don't have enough 'sobriety time' for them all Mark!

Fascinating watch - thanks for posting. Could you somehow repurpose your arc-chamber into a parallel arc fault generator?

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

I've got to wrap my hangover around how to make a parallel arc that doesn't turn into an outright short that pops off my upstream breaker!

@foxythedirtydog4494

9 ай бұрын

​@@dsesukjust use a resistor to limit the current. Maybe an incandescent lamp.

A Philips SL18? Now that's a piece of history. They also did SL20's for ones with screw in fittings I think. They used to use them in lifts around where I used to live for their long life and energy efficiency, which turned out not to be the brightest of things to do as when 'people' found out how expensive they were, 'people' used to nick, and sell them to the local electrical shop. For AFDD's, might be snake oil, but if I was doing and install in the house of a family member, for the sake of a few extra quid I'd have no qualms about putting them on the electric shower, kitchen and ring circuits. Well, the fusebox ones anyway, those fkin Hager ones will likely need the house remortgaged to pay for them.

@TestGearJunkie.

9 ай бұрын

Philips SL lamps were made in 9, 13, 18 & 25W ratings, with both BC and ES caps. The earlier 1st gen ones had black bases, the 2nd and 3rd generation had white bases. Although I would not want to be sitting underneath one in a pendant BC lampholder if one of the locating pins gave way, the things weigh a ton 😵‍💫

There you are I am not going mad I kept on saying on KZread comments that Crabtree did a push-in in terminal switch.

Splendid.

Look at the cap where it meets the plastic housing for a date code. Philips date codes are a letter for the month and a number for the year which alternate. For example C6 would be March 1986 and 6C would be March 1996. Works for their linear fluorescent and discharge lamps too.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

That's interesting. It has K6 on it - Lamptech have a date code table which translates it to October 1986. I may have misheard TestgearJunkie as I thought 1996 had been given, but that box decor is a giveaway to the Eighties.

@FrontSideBus

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk Yeah the 90's ones have a different packaging, the really early ones were hexagonal rather than square. I have a few full boxes of the SL18, 13 and 25 including the original early 80's black based versions. Picked em up about 10 years ago as ex MOD stock. Was like 18 or 20 quid for a full box of 6 so I thought why the hell not lol. Might be worth a bit later on. Your lamp is one month younger than me heh.

@TestGearJunkie.

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk I wrote the date on the inside of the box lid.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

@@TestGearJunkie. Ah, so you did! I've really gotta find my glasses!

But there isn't actually a real set standard for AFDDs, as you have shown David. Madness.

Try some pencil lead for parallel arc, Busbar when not cleaned get arc's from left over cutting pencil marks.

Maybe the fusebox version assumes that the first arc is an appliance being plugged in. On the second attempt it assumes a fault?

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Could be that the firmware is on the watch for repeat patterns in quick succession. Maybe the Hager does too. I'll have to test that theory now I guess!

@glynnepritchard2526

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk I know how much you enjoy doing this series of videos, now you have another to do ;)

AFDDs are interesting when you start researching deeply in them the deeper you go the most clever and impressive they are motors and switches can be ignored as they are preidictable wave form plus ceenorm have used screwless terminals for a long time.

@darylsavage119

10 ай бұрын

Personally I'd be in favour of screwless terminals on mcbs/rcbos/afdds. Much harder to open a board and see 8 2.5s crammed into one 32a that way

I laughed until I coughed myself stupid.

I think the 0.4ms trip time requirement are to do with the heart cardiac cycle time. I think it is meant to be a half an average cycle time

@westinthewest

10 ай бұрын

I've assumed it to be the time it takes for a 50 Hz 230 V sine wave to change from zero to 50 V.

@mikep-j894

9 ай бұрын

@@westinthewest well as a whole cycle of mains takes 20msec, there being 50 of them in second, 0.4 seconds is actually 20 full cycles ! Sergio is right, the time is set to avoid the onset of ventricular fibrillation in a shock of about 150V. - expected in a TN system, with approx equal L- and E resistances. For a 250V shock, e,g TT system, the current is higher, and the time shorter, by a factor of about 2. Mike

@westinthewest

9 ай бұрын

@@mikep-j894 Oops. I was thinking about the 40 ms RCD trip time, but you're right - even 40 ms is the period for two complete 50 Hz cycles. I think the rise time of the sine wave is the reason why disconnection time graphs like Fig 3A4 in BS 7671 show 10 ms at the bottom of the Y-axis (the time for half a cycle). That's about the minimum period where you can get consistent energy let-through regardless of the start/end phase position. The graph on page 2 of Crabtree's data sheet file:///D:/6HS32C-data.pdf has the same minimum 0.01 s. Thanks for making me get the big book out :-)

To think when I was installing Hager boards in the mid 90's they were the cheapest of the cheap and that's why they were used on the sites, how they forget their humble beginnings. I see these things and I just think there's some brown envelopes greasing somebody's palm. And to think you had two of the most well known brands who were selling insulated boards with a BS number on, yet failed the hot wire test, and it's been swept under the carpet, no recall no nothing. Yeah I installed some of those crabtree switches in the late 80's

I wonder if you could trip off an AFDD by playing with the switch on a socket or light switch? A light switch probably doesn't have enough current flowing through it though. An old dirty socket switch with a heater on it being switched slow might get a bit of arcage?

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Rubbing wires together to fool the thing is tricky. I tried it in my original 2018 video and in the end I could only trip it with the addition of salt water. The arc chamber seems to work reliably with the brass stop ends acting as a wider point of contact.

@FrontSideBus

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk I suppose it would be really annoying if it was to trip off at every switch contact arc. Maybe why the Fusebox unit ignores the first go.

@YUshakov

7 ай бұрын

Current threshold for AFDD - 2.5 A. We have to start with that. Creating a stable arc in a circuit breaker is very difficult. There should be no tripping.

You just know the brands big wigs will be watching and sweating in hope they do work, coz no doubt they won’t know either 😂

I wonder if it doesn't trip the first time as if to simulate a switch being turned on and ignores it as contact wear, then the second time is as though the appliance is on and arcing away.

@sdgelectronics

10 ай бұрын

That first arc event was pretty prolonged, then tripped immediately on the second go. That would seem like a flaw.

love the shirt

Is that Plessey tech gear in your racks?

Watched a efixx video on youtube where Lewden was testing Their Afdd and the Guy said the Standard is an Arc from Copper to a Carbon rod The Rig they showed was Basically a Micrometer adjustment against a Carbon rod with a load of approx 5Amp, Although i Still think the Hager should trip in your example.

John ward has competition

@craigderbyshire7884

10 ай бұрын

I was going to say the same, was watching John the other day with his new vid

Effectively they are asking people to put in a protective device that can’t be tested. When you’ve demonstrated something arcing that’s didn’t trip it I wouldn’t spend my money on it, especially since it dosnt offer any additional functionality for the power consumption and the associated ever increasing electric cost and the initial cost. This whole update seems to be more aimed at making sure people have to pay more than something that is actually 100% functional.

Which vid shows the Siemens AFFD test?

40:15 If you want to be sure of the production date of that SL18, look at the base. There will be a symbol and a letter and a digit somewhere. The symbol denotes the plant of manufacture, the letter and digit are a datecode. The letter and digit are swapped around every decade. E.g. C2 would have been March 1982. 2C would have been March 1992. After that C2 would become March 2002 etc. If your SL18 truly is of 1996, it should start with a 6. Since it has a white base and is packaged in a square box, it must be a more recent version. Older versions would have had a black base and a hexagonal package. Even later versions would have been more compact while still using the magnetic ballast. In my country (NL) this was the first iteration of what would become the CFL. This was during the Philips years, and customer support in those years explained this code to me. Now it's become Signify and who knows what coding schemes they use now.

@dsesuk

9 ай бұрын

Yes, it was my mistake - TestGearJunkie had marked the box correctly as October 1986. I must have misheard when they told me!

I've only just started watching but I had to chuckle at SpewTube inflicting an ad from NICEIC on me telling me that they were some sort of guarantee of quality workmanship. BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

@JC-jv5xw

10 ай бұрын

That's why we need metal enclosures and AFDDs.....

How do I send you something? I remember in one vid a couple of years back you were interested in seeing how the regs had changed and I have a red book and onsite guide from 1985 when I did my Army apprenticeship.

@dsesuk

9 ай бұрын

Address deets are on the website Shaun. Your books sound interesting!

One thought one the Bluetooth BS in the Hager AFDD, if it's in a metal CU, per 17th Edition, then that enclosure would act like a Faraday cage that would seriously reduce or even block the Bluetooth signal entirely, so it's a bit of a chocolate firegaurd really...

The crabtree wago switch...early 80s...they're fitted in my Auntie's flat built in 1980

@AndyK.1

10 ай бұрын

Looks euro ?

@stuartdavis8327

10 ай бұрын

Yes but to UK box size...euro boxes smaller

The fuse box diag led should really have the same length of signalling with the mark / space padded to the fault. Five flashes without a pause meaning one flash five times is poor coding. Could you build a reproducible parallel arc by very slowly winding a pair of sooty stop ends together across the line/neutral with a decent load plugged in wouldn’t trip the rcd and you could add a second resistive 100w bulb load in series with the stop ends to avoid an overcurrent on that path.

@westinthewest

10 ай бұрын

If you're including loads in the circuit to limit the current on your parallel arc, doesn't it become a series arc? I have to state that I haven't given this much thought, so please explain slowly if you feel inclined to reply.

What will an AFDD do when the load is a bunch of brushed motors or welders? Or, I may be being thick, but if there is a SPD and an AFDD on the same circuit surely these cancel each other out to some extent? From an old sparks who wonders how he going to tell the customer that the meter cupboard will have to be ripped out and rebuilt because the new consumer unit is now 2 modules too wide to fit in the space on the wall. Thanks for your time and honesty!

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Motor and switching arc signatures shouldn't fool an AFDD into operating. Welders will be on the other side of a step-up transformer so they too won't trouble 'em.

@Monkeh616

10 ай бұрын

Arcs don't (necessarily, anyway) induce a high enough voltage event to cause an SPD to conduct. As for motors, they should be able to identify the waveform of a motor vs an actual arc - the time it took to react to the series arc with the heater also hints to some cautious behaviour. With welders, they use transformers which will severely damp the current waveform of the output arc (arcs are high frequency events, and power transformers do not pass high frequencies - this is why we have specialised designs for audio, let alone really high frequencies).

@dave-d

9 ай бұрын

OK. Got it. Only asked as I've seen some shagged power tools making a lot of sparks! And welding is just sparks, (often accompanied by flickering lamps in the building). Sounds like the AFDD is smarter than I thought. Thank you. @@dsesuk

@dave-d

9 ай бұрын

OK. If I understand correctly the SPD is incomer protection is looking for bigger things than arcs within the system / load that would be detected by an AFDD. So the SPD does not mask possible arc faults. And as the AFDD is microprocessor controlled it is programmed to look for the particular characteristic signatures of an arc fault. So even though a welder may make the lights in the building flicker a lot the frequency of the disturbance is outside the frequency scope of the AFDD, (frequency too low due to transformer attenuation). I guess I never considered an arc as a high frequency event. Thank you.

is it safe to plug in my mains powered vibrator now?

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

God, you sound just like my wife.

Hager might not come after you but a florida man might lol

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

There was a nearby lightning strike this very evening. I reckon he's had a word with the higher-ups!

I installed a few Fusebox afdds last year and a fault with one of them .

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Fusebox had a recall on their AFDDs, although I'm not sure what the nature of the problem was.

I may have missed it, but did you run your test with RCBOs? Obviously they shouldn't trip with those test, but I wondered whether any of them produce enough noise to trip other forms of circuit protection.

@dsesuk

9 ай бұрын

I've not tested with RCBOs themselves, but these AFDDs are RCBOs to BSEN61009 with an arc fault detector tacked on.

@LudvigIndestrucable

9 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk indeed,but I wondered whether it's the RCBO component that's throwing up issues, Hager has a history with RCBs, was just curious whether it was related.

So if theres no official recognised AFDD test device, how do the manufacturer's test each AFDD before it leaves the factory...... they do have to pass a test, right? Good info David, very interesting, how long before AFDD's are slipped into the regs for all general domestic installations?

@sdgelectronics

10 ай бұрын

The AFDD is looking for some specific amplitudes when it does it's FFT on the waveform. They're either injecting that waveform to check it, or they only check signal integrity to the microcontroller.

@three-phase562

10 ай бұрын

The arc test procedure is contained with IEC 62606 in which the arc is generated across a carbon wire sample. However, as it is a type test, there is only a requirement that the design passes the test and there is no requirement to type test each individual AFDD. The manufacturing quality control procedures are meant to ensure that all future AFDDs are manufactured the same as the AFDD that passed the type testing.

@YUshakov

7 ай бұрын

AFDD testing can be performed using a special test unit included in the AFDD kit. No physical arc, just a special pulse generator. In addition, the area of coverage of the AFDD can be defined. This is especially important for public buildings.

24:45 I think by the time you get there. Every button, switch etc will be touched operated a numerous times anyway. So dont think a fault signal we be there anyway.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Maybe, but with Wylex/Crabtree it has to be manually reset by pushing the indicator - most wouldn't know the light itself is a reset button. I think they should all have a function where the last trip fault can be recalled. I guess that is one thing Hager's model does sport. Holding down the Test button with the handle off recalls the last event even if you don't have the Bluetooth app.

Should I buy one and try to install Linux on it.

A handle? 😂

What happened to the kitchen bin AFDD tester?

@davidnorth1021

10 ай бұрын

Wait, there it is! I must've fallen asleep in the middle last time

Are there any AFDDs that don't include an RCD or that have a delayed trip RCD for selectivity? I wouldn't mind installing a single 40A AFDD to protect my whole consumer unit but all my RCBOs are fine as they are.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

An AFDD could monitor multiple circuits I imagine. You could install it up-front onto a group of circuits similar to how an RCD would be used in a non-RCBO board. That would fall foul of Reg 314 (division of installation) as an arc fault on any one circuit would trip power to them all, but it seems electrically feasible to me.

@speedmytube

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk Thanks David. Is there a way to do it while preserving the individual earth leakage protection ... so only individual circuits trip for earth leakage but everything trips for arc fault? The combined RCD presumably can't be disabled.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

@@speedmytube Many of today's devices have overload, arc-fault and earth leakage protection, however there are models that lack the latter. Hager's original AFD offering was a two-module affair that didn't provide residual current protection. Search product code ARC940U. There may be other such examples from other brands.

Bluetooth is simply Serial over Wireless. Don't over think it. There is nobneed for the Internet. But I know you already know that, but it's easy to believe these smart devices are a gimmick. Many devices use to have a Serial port for interrogation. The thing I do agree with is the question of App support, well hopefully they document the protocol so someone else can create their own. I'm pleased you are seeing some benefits. It should just be a read only data affair. You shouldn't have to log in to anywhere.

The trouble is if you cant test the functionality of a afdd then how as a tester can you sign off on it 🤷‍♂️ seems like a bad idea in terms of liability😅

@JC-jv5xw

10 ай бұрын

You cannot easily confirm the correct operation of MCBs. But you can (destructively) with fuses.

@JC-jv5xw

10 ай бұрын

Actually there is an Indian KZread video where someone "tests" a line of MCBs by poking a well bared neutral wire into the outputs. I suspect equally destructive. But when he panned out the chain of scraps of flex leading to the socket across the room probably limited the fault current.

Nigel was my afdaddy 😔

Just seen an advert for eicr. 3 bed house up to 10 circuits and p.a.t in London M25 £99 Inc vat. How can they do it . Has anyone experienced this . How long do they take . Is there alot of lim . Does anyone else do them for this price

@dsesuk

9 ай бұрын

That'll be a drive-by. A visual-only (for the most part) which tells you nothing about the actual safety and condition of the installation. Any duty holder appointing them will have a 'report' with so many omissions and limitations that it won't be worth the paper it was written on and it won't get them off the hook if someone dies. There's no point in trying to compete with these scum on price. Leave 'em doing a shite job for the cheapskates.

Cant you build another sparky box, so that each electrode is connected one to line and the other to natural, so it simulates a parallel short.

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

It's very hard to make a parallel arc without making a short I find. I had a few bangs when pissing around with this at the weekend and my conclusion was that it was too difficult to be a reliable test. There may be a better way, but I need my hangover to clear before I can start thinking of it.

@Monkeh616

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk I suspect the mention of copper/graphite electrodes from your question about testing equipment is a good clue as to how to make stable parallel arcs.

Love it😊😂

looks like another loney xmas for you no nigel and no xmas hager party invite

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Yeah, but Siemens might send me a six-pack!

@fairplaytoyou2041

10 ай бұрын

you might have a bunch of fives of hager first @@dsesuk

Great vid, so you say that AFDD's do something, but not what the manufacturer states, shame ,

It's AFDD Savo! 😀

@dsesuk

10 ай бұрын

Nooo! I don't want any more to do with 'em!

@MrKarlPrince

10 ай бұрын

@@dsesuk Maybe in the "Project Farm" format with more strong alcohol and language

The Hager AFDD is higher because it has to allow for the yellow weener 🤣🤣🤣