I'd have thought it quite obvious that if a trainee can't complete their qualifications within the two year limit because of a failure on behalf of the government to provide a test within a reasonable period (whether because of pure waiting list length or test cancellations by the DVSA) then the period for that person to complete their training should be extended. The whole shebang is currently controlled by The Motor Cars (Driving Instruction) Regulations 2005, which the Minister for transport can change without needing any changes to the road traffic acts. These regulations (the Statutory Instrument) are subject to the so called 'negative resolution procedure' so 40 days from a updated regulations being 'laid before parliament' they go into effect unless a formal objection to this is raised in parliament. There's a new minister for transport, Louise Haigh, and a new government that is desperate to have some palpable successes in the public eye as soon as possible, preferably within the first 100 days of taking office. So this is an ideal time to apply pressure to the government in the person of the minister, to make the simple, common sense change to allow individual trainees qualification time limit to be extended in the case where they are being 'timed out' through governmental inability to do their job and provide testing in a reasonable time. It doesn't need any new expensive resources, just a small change in the regulations to stop being unfair to trainee ADIs. The Driving Instructors Association and any other trade bodies need to put pressure on the Minister today. As for Ash, he's been on the telly before, what's the betting that a word in the ears of the researchers that invited him on before would get him in front of the cameras to have a good moan and provide the DfT with a good reason to come up with an answer to the problem in short order. Make 'em look bad and give them an opportunity to make themselves look good by fixing the mess the previous government has left behind.

@Yue_Jin

17 күн бұрын

This is what happened during covid for learners, at one point it took 7 months to get a driving test. They didn't even need to cancel tests etc due to covid either, no reason for it. Whole thing was managed horribly and they've only somewhat recently fixed it.

You need a cancellation app for instructors tests as well 😂

I'm on hold for part 2, and was advised it's up to a 6 month wait. There are no tests available anywhere. DVSA will either have to extend the qualifying period or remove the 6 month requirement. Makes it very difficult to plan your training.

It’s very similar waiting times in Aylesbury and surrounding areas. In High Wycombe they’re not even offering p3 tests which is ridiculous. My PDIs are having to go out of area just for examiners to give feedback “It felt like you don’t know the area very well” One thing you didn’t mention is that once PDIs start in a training licence, they also have to have an additional 20 hours training within a 12 week period before applying for a Part 3 test so that potentially another 3 months before they can even apply for their first attempt

I think it was in April 2022 DVSA sent a communication saying they were aiming to get average waiting times down to 9 weeks by Christmas. Recent article said waiting times have increased. No wonder why this industry is in such a mess currently and why instructors are giving up

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

I've had several students all book their tests in the past couple of weeks. All of them are in December.

@susan0ne

11 күн бұрын

Did you believe that then? 42% pass rates that's 58% failed they go back in queue, kids becoming 17yrs of age then join queue, so queue will be there for life also every other problem in this country will stay bad for life. Starmer bull shite aswell. Get used to it

Well they're going to have to extend the qualifying time you have. For part two and part three. As well as urgently fund more examiniers.

Honestly, if a trainee officially has 3 attempts per exam, they should be given the opportunity to take those three attempts. If the waiting times are so long that they go beyond the two years, that time should be expanded. If you plan all tests the moment you can, there shouldn't really be any time limit in my opinion. That limit should only apply if you fail to even apply for a test date. There already is a shortage of instructors, why make it worse by causing people to fail to become one, because of some arbitrary time limit and no fault of their own?

I feel this one. It feels wrong that I had to pay for a second trainee badge last year when I was a little shy of the pass mark on my first attempt (passed decently on my second attempt) and they gave me a second date two months after my badge expired. You know the system is broken when people who are able to book to hold are waiting almost half a year at a time (bearing in mind that normal tests aren't released and available until within six months). With a first-time pass on the first two tests, it still took me 14 months to qualify. I almost threw in the towel when I had to apply for a renewed pink badge. It sounds like I just got qualified in the nick of time!

I don't know if it's changed since my day (long ago), but I did my Part 2 and Part 3 on the same morning and with the same examiner. I passed all 3 Parts at the 1st attempt). Surely it must be possible to train for the Part 2 and Part 3 at the same time. Hopefully a potential ADI's driving shouldn't require that much training.

3 ADI Enforcement officers in my local area have retired. I myself have had a part 3 test put on hold, but still no guarantee i’ll manage to find one unless I branch out of my local area…

If a test is cancelled by the examiner then the test should be rescheduled for a date within a couple of weeks or the 2 year period extended by 3-6 months, in my opinion. One other solution would be to have 2 years from passing part 1 to passing part 2 with an additional 3 months added after a fail. Then a period of 2 years from passing part 2 to passing part 3, again with an additional 3 months added for a fail. This _should_ give adequate time including cancellations I don’t think the delays are limited to ADI though and one reason why, with a family member I am teaching, we are not doing the theory test until as close as it can be to the practical due to the delays. I think ee are still around 4 month wait for a practical test here

I was my instructors pupil in his part 3… he failed. I felt bad. 2 years on, I still feel bad I ended up passing first time so his teaching couldn’t have been too bad

Hey Ash, it's around the same here. It seems the case pdis have to be booking a "test on hold" and hoping something comes up. Another point. You have to complete an additional 20hrs in the first 3months of your trainee licence starting. So technically you shouldn't book a part 3 until those are done. It is an awful system.

Thanks for heads up 👍

Ashley this is the same everywhere, we have had exactly the same experiences as you. That is in the North West and Scotland.

Over twenty years ago I had this problem. Passed part 1 and booked part 2. Passed 2 after I passed, I had a trainee licence (you could only have one) and booked part 3. It was cancelled twice and I timed out before I could take the part 3.

Had this exact problem a few years ago. Got through to the part 3. Waited 5 months for a test date. Failed it by 2 points, was unable to rebook a test before my license expired. Ended up giving it up and becoming a private hire driver

Recently failed my Part 3 on my 3rd attempt. First attempt was June 23, Second attempt was January 24 and 3rd attempt was June 24. Waiting times in any part of Scotland is horrendous. At the time of my first attempt, the examiner was working down the days before retiring. After they left, it was noted that there were only 4/5 examiners covering the whole of Scotland. Apparently another 3/4 have been recruited in Scotland according to Devious (DVSA). I waited 3 months from booking my 2nd attempt to actually taking it. I placed my 3rd attempt booking on hold and still had to wait 3 months before sitting. In that period my 2nd Trainee Licence expired and a 3rd refused. This led to appealing but also thoughts of whether the appeal would be heard before test date. Devious need to look at alternative options perhaps like a teaching qualification via college/university as we are trying to teach people in a similar way as a school teacher. An ADI only gets 6 months to qualify yet a teacher studies for 4 years.

I have been on hold for more than six months for my Part 2 driving test in Norris Green. Finally, it has been booked for the beginning of September.😅😅😅

Booked my Part 3 test in April. Test date is September!!

@Allthingsbaloo

16 күн бұрын

Same lol

Blyth is clearly more convenient for ADI tests than it is for L-tests, my daughter waited months between tests. It was just after covid to be fair...

I once considered ADI training; the person I spoke to about it (someone interviewed me for a course) thought I would have been good at the job, but the numbers didn't add up at the time. I guess it's something I could still consider. But I don't like the sound of this. I don't think I would consider it today, although it sounds like there exists plenty of demand for driving instructors now; back when I thought about it, there wasn't as much demand.

This is basically why I gave up on my training. I was injured the week of my part 2 test so I tried to book a later date - there were none. No dates at any test centre I checked. Ridiculous.

I failed my part 3 twice, and had to give up due to the costs. I was losing hundreds £££ per week while training, and a resit would be another three months, and financially I just couldn't do it. I was also really disheartened with the teaching ability test. I trained one student from scratch who passed there test first time, and after almost two years of work, didn't meet the grade. So decided it wasn't for me.

I've only just started my in car Part 3 training but I've already put in for my test. I figure given how long the wait times are I will have completed all my training and a (hopefully) substantial amount of teaching hours...🤞🏻

i have no idea of waiting times in my area of Dundee but yes, vans can take some corners faster than you think, catches some drivers out. then i was laughing at that black ford behind the van, must get in front then backed out when they finally realised the space wasnt there lol. then the use of the space in lane 2 to get throught the traffic lights first filter. its fun to know advanced driving and all these little things to help make a journey, i did consider last year wanting to become a driving instructor (more a motorcycle instructor) as my dad was one in the 80s, people say i have a natural way with people when teaching, but the cost and time were putting me off as we bought a house and i am part time so can renovate it.

A similar situation in the Aberdeen area Ashley, I think extending the PDI licence to 9 months or even a year would help alleviate the current situation, I felt pressured trying to pass my part 3 within the 6 months

I passed my part 3 yesterday, I luckily passed everything for the first time and it has still taken me 15 months. A lot of stress for PDI, needs fixing.

On my second license with first part 3 test next week (waited 6 months for date) 2 years up in September had a 5 month wait for part 2

My sympathies to all affected by this. For my part, I don't have the aptitude or patience to teach; I know how to do a lot of things, including (I hope) driving, but I couldn't teach anyone else to do it to save my life.

I’m amazed anyone still want to become a driving instructor. Let’s face it an instructor is grossly undervalued by the public, grossly underpaid and is becoming increasingly dangerous. I did the job for 25 years until a serious accident whilst teaching put me out of action. Thankfully I’m retired now.

@cactusbase3088

17 күн бұрын

Why are instructors becoming increasingly dangerous?

@TestGearJunkie.

17 күн бұрын

@@cactusbase3088 The mind boggles...

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

​​@@cactusbase3088 I think they're saying that the _job_ is becoming increasingly dangerous. The amount of deliberately reckless manoeuvres other drivers pull on driving school vehicles is disturbing, and the lack of basic policing on the roads isn't helping at all.

Just to be pedantic, Blyth is in Northumberland, it's around 16 miles from Newcastle, when I learnt to drive and passed my test it was in Blyth as the small Northumbrian town I lived in didn't have any traffic lights then or roundabouts.

I had my Part 3 cancelled in January and again in March but managed to take my test a few weeks ago failing with 30 marks. This was 16 months after my Part 1 pass. I am trying to get my 2nd attempt before my 24 month time limit but will need a 3rd pink License. I am not holding my breathe! This is in Nottinghamshire.

Thankfully I sat my Part 2 quite quickly after my Part 1.. but I failed my first go at Part 3 by 2 points at the start of June. I reapplied straight away for my second attempt but have had no date as yet.. 😞

I contacted DVLA about my licence and something that they could do better, I received a letter back that failed to answer the point, and it showed that they had not a clue as to the wider implications of their process. I gave up. I've seen the Army way, the civi way (i.e. if you don't do it efficiently you don't get the job or paid) and you then compare it to the NHS / Local Authority / DVLA and you realise we're not paying for talent, we're paying for obstruction. Until we change that, we won't change as a nation.

I was doing mine but the instructor I paid for the course sold the school, the new owner wasn’t able to teach instructor standard and wasn’t interested in an employee if I got through anyway.. i wanted to do bikes as well

Bus companies employ their own examiners to test their trainee drivers, maybe driving tests and driving instructor tests can be provided commercially by private companies (they would need to be strictly monitored of course). Just a thought, probably to complex an idea to gain traction.

Im in a simular situation to what you are describing. Ive done my part 1 and part 2 fist time round but was unsuccessful for my part 3, i have just over a year bvefore my 2 years would be up.

Becoming an ADI is stressful enough without all these waiting times. I qualified in 2008 and I think I’d have thrown the towel in if I’d had to have the extra pressure of waiting 5 months or so for a Part 2/3.

Have my part 3 on Friday 13th September (of all dates). Been waiting 4 months for it. Worst part is my part 1 runs out ij April and if i fail i doubt il get my 2nd attempt in time 🙄

Surely they knew this would happen if they pulled all the ADI examiners off their roles to do normal driving tests. Fewer driving instructors keeps prices for lessons higher but also makes school of mum and dad more popular, which leads to lower pass rates and less efficiency in the system. I don't think the DVSA have taken nearly drastic enough steps to address this problem. They need to open more test centres, or how about having tests on the weekend or after 4pm if light allows god forbid. Obviously more examiners are needed as well. I feel lucky that I completed my qualification before it got so bad.

I want to start my driving instructor training. Is this a minor setback with the delays or is not all doom and gloom? I know it's 'just life' sometimes but spending thousands for no reward seems like a waste.

I’m just gearing up for part 1. Had a bit of family tragedy but by the sounds me taking it slower due to this might be ok.

Same with driving tests! Utter joke!

Sounds like yet another broken system.

Paid for the ADI after becoming an advanced driver, but not gonna do it, putting it down to a loss. This is primarily due to the risk incase it doesn't work out. Also, driving is my passion, but I do not know if I would enjoy teaching students, would only find out at stage 3.

@nigelcox1451

17 күн бұрын

Try to find an ADI trainer, or instructor in your area that will let you sit in and observe a lesson or several. Get a feel for the job. Might help you decide one way or another. Many students can be very difficult. Those who struggle, but persevere, can be very rewarding, eventually, but get one who knows it all and try correcting them, that is hard work.

As a matter of interest, does the 40 hours of training have to be in car? Also, does it have to be within a particular timescale of your part 2? I ask because i was on a pink early 2000's before passing my part 3 around the end of 2003. I allowed my green to lapse in 2010 when i started training to become a teacher. Would be a tad sneaky but i wondered if i could use my 40 hours from then to request a pink. Its a tad frustrating i cant use my QTS in my qualification!

@ashley_neal

17 күн бұрын

40 hours does not have to all be done in car (but it should be IMO), but it does have to be signed off by your trainer. Have a look at the form ADI-21T

@adinigel

17 күн бұрын

@@ashley_neal ah! "Within the last 6 months"

If they need 3 attempts then they can't be much good

2:09 to be fair, if a student fails the driving part of the test two times, perhaps it's not the right career choice for them.

Hopefully, the new government will sort out the shitshow that is the DVSA and the Department for Transport as a whole. I won't hold my breath.

@clivewilliams3661

17 күн бұрын

Labour are going to have to cancel the culture of WFH/reduced Public Sector working hours (4 day week)/cancellation of early retirement or reduced (part time) hours working in order to get capacity back into this and other systems. as there certainly isn't the labour pool available to add more bodies into the system.

@leedorney

17 күн бұрын

Public facing roles yes non wfh, but if you're not then theirs no reason if you're office based or such like them WFH is the future which is now!

@Kylirr

17 күн бұрын

​@@clivewilliams3661Nothing wrong with 4 day work weeks. They've been shown categorically to improve productivity.

@clivewilliams3661

17 күн бұрын

@@leedorney Contacting anyone in a public organisation is problematic especially if they are WFH. At one time I could pick up the phone and contact anyone i was dealing with via the switchboard - no longer. I am invariably on hold for commonly 30-60 mins and then to only leave a message for the person to contact me as they won't give out their contact details. If i am lucky the person I want to talk to may call me back the same day if not...... This system is HUGELY inefficient and wasteful as well as time consuming often leading to unnecessary delay. I note that many organisations are calling their staff back in to work as they see the real cost of WFH, it will gradually die a death.

@studiosoftmorecambe6879

17 күн бұрын

@@Kylirr - in what sector can working fewer hours get more work done?

What about standard check tests?😊

So what i'm hearing is.... I need to get qualified to train people to drive and then train to teach instructors.. perfect!! :)

Hows the Focus, Ashley? Far fewer videos on it compared to the Golf or even Tesla - hopefully no news is good news!

I'm curious if the Labour government is going to address this in some way. If you think about it, investing in more high-quality trained driving instructors and examiners would mean more people driving which equals more job opportunities and all the payments attached to the car would equal more money for the economy.

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

It would certainly be a nice move. My driving school arranged what I can only describe as a mini-seminar between instructors and a few DVSA officials (like test centre managers) last year, and I distinctly remember them saying that there wouldn't be many big changes to legislation because of the upcoming election. I don't reckon that driving test issues are high up on the new government's priority list, though.

This is clearly a result of a lack of resources within the public sector and is commonplace across many professions. Much of this has arisen since the Pandemic, when I guess many reevaluated their lifestyle and retired/semi-retired early, which in turn generated more strain on the remaining staff that resulted in long periods of sick leave, notwithstanding the sickness derived from the Pandemic. Its a very difficult situation to get out of and just throwing money at it won't effect any cure as its labour that is the problem.

I think it's time for you to go on telly again, pointing out the issues with the DVSA, like you did with the woefully inadequate publicity about the new Highway Code rules.

Yet another example of just how messed up things are in this Country 🤷‍♂️.

Who's allowed to do these tests, is that government officials only or someone with a certain extra certification? Sounds to me like someone with a big enough following (say, around 160K subscribers on KZread) could very well help solve this issue if it's a matter of finding willing participants and getting them trained up to do those exams

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

Senior examiners. Instructors aren't allowed to also do driving tests (which the qualifying exams are classed as) because of the conflict of interest.

So, £3000, and around 2 years of your life (If you're unlucky). To become a self employed driving instructor where you can expect to earn not much more than £33,000 - £35,000 a year? Based on a 35-hour week, working 48 weeks per year and charging £33 per hour, a driving instructor would expect to take home around £31,000 per year if I'm not mistaken. Have to say Ashley you're really not selling the career to me unless you youtube it on the side haha!

@ashley_neal

17 күн бұрын

@@IamRyanLPs very mistaken

The amount of people here saying “well, maybe if you fail 2/3 times, the job isn’t for you”… Bloody hell, if we all took that stance, we’d have next to no professionals doing jobs at all in any career. The point of careers is to learn, get better, and advance. Not throw in the towel because something went wrong once.

The root cause as with many other things in the public sector is that no one was ever fired or reprimanded for incompetence or not delivering on time. Every branch of the civil service, the councils, the NHS, the executive agencies and quangos are filled with a ton of dossers. And things are only going to get even worse with the new government.

Should the practical test services offered by the DVSA be privatised (it does not seem to be fit for purpose)? There is talk these days of "Nationalising" various services in the hope that said service will improve. If the DVSA is anything to go by, things could just become worse. Also it's 2024, why is a driving test solely dependent on the observations and opinion of one individual? Tests should be video recorded from a number of angles and the student should be allowed to appeal if they "fail".

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

A major contributor to poor practical test wait times is private resellers using bots to scoop up dates and sell them on at extortionate mark-ups. If anything, it's this type of under-the-table privatisation that's causing a lot of the issues. Examiners are sole individuals, but they're also individuals who are standards-tested just like instructors to ensure that they're marking people correctly. Making driving tests video-based for several people to assess and possibly appeal would exponentially worsen how long it would take for someone to go through their test. Having taken dozens of people through driving tests now, I've not found any variance in how serious faults are marked, and that's covering three test centres. I find it weird that you insinuate that there's a lot of subjectivity in people failing or passing the test, especially given that all that's expected of an L-test candidate is that they drive legally and safely.

Maybe it's your trainer that needs more training 2 attempts the most 3 is toi many

If you have to take your test three times. Perhaps it's not the job for you.

@sammiewilson7066

17 күн бұрын

To discourage someone from learning something that's fairly difficult and nuanced because they failed twice is a little harsh is it not?

@goodyeoman4534

17 күн бұрын

Not at all. But people who see the negative in everything, like you - perhaps should keep their negative thoughts to themselves.

@sabrinalee3372

17 күн бұрын

Not at all. The part 2 and 3 are very difficult to pass, especially for the first time. You can fail for simple errors, does that mean you're not cut out for the job? Would you say that to a learner who has needed 3 L tests to pass, telling them they shouldn't be allowed on the road?

@nigelcox1451

17 күн бұрын

@@sabrinalee3372 Can't really compare learner and ADI tests. A learner may fail due to nerves, or experiencing a situation not encountered before. An ADI must be able to deal with any driving situation, when teaching, so must be able to do so on a test. Test nerves cannot be a reason for a fail, or one's aptitude needs reassessment. Being caught out by any road or traffic situation does not bode well for any learner. Imagine being a learner, and your instructor cannot deal with the situation you're in.

@ianmason.

17 күн бұрын

There's plenty of people who are bloody good at doing things who are also ruddy awful at taking tests which they would excel at if only they weren't under the pressure of 'being on test'.

This is all part of the establishments aim to stop people being able to drive but not doing anything to help make alternative transport viable.

what's ADI?

@sabrinalee3372

17 күн бұрын

Approved Driving Instructor

@brantnuttall

17 күн бұрын

@@sabrinalee3372 so it's the basic qualy? wow, that's bad.

is this another angle of the war on motorists i wonder?

People voted for a muppet show and they got a muppet show, it comes as a suprise?

here come the bots

@MitchellKJones

17 күн бұрын

🤖 Boop, beep 🤖

@frogsplorer

17 күн бұрын

🍑 more like

@BangaBuseslad

17 күн бұрын

​@@MitchellKJones😂

@laceandwhisky

17 күн бұрын

I'm mesmerized by the empty roads, look so smooth, no potholes, I can't even get of my drive without chancing it with the flow of traffic.😢 Mind you Ashley will experience this as he's coming to goodwood 😂

Glad I don't drive! I use public transport

14 years of the Tories, mate. They broke everything.

@goodyeoman4534

17 күн бұрын

Yawn. I'm sure Starmer will fix everything . . .

@Slaeowulf

17 күн бұрын

@@goodyeoman4534 Oh no. Guys. I hurt a Tory's feelings. I forgot how sensitive they were 😢

@goodyeoman4534

17 күн бұрын

@@Slaeowulf But I'm not a Tory and never have been. So what can you say now?

@Slaeowulf

17 күн бұрын

@@goodyeoman4534 Reform then. Whatever. Sad little right wing troll that's sad someone competent is in charge. Don't cry.

@user-mv5zt8qd9l

17 күн бұрын

Don't know how hopeful I am, but it sure would be nice for someone to sort out the atrocious wait times currently going on. It's so disheartening that all of my learners are currently only getting slots for Christmas time.

WEF = 15 min cities (no cars). No driving instructors will certainly sort that 😮.