I love how quickly this segment ended. Brennan gave one bit of pushback that he fully admitted he didn't believe in, and then immediately abandoned the segment entirely to gush about how cool the idea was.

@markmittelbach7975

Жыл бұрын

I would say Brennan still brought up the downsides, but those downsides aren't of the "this is bad idea you should never use" sort. There are groups or situations where this wouldn't be a good idea, but you can't honestly discuss those from a position of "this is just bad".

@cbjgaming8589

Жыл бұрын

love your profile picture!

@handgun559

7 ай бұрын

Although, he did end up advancing the idea and making it better. After his first point, I would allow some classes to see the rolls, or at least give them a vague idea of how it's going. It could add an element to allow a character that can feel out life to actually feel the death saves.

@JarrekAsF

6 ай бұрын

@@handgun559I think if you have any sort of healing ability, it can be a high enough dice check to be like sometimes you are able to deduce it in the heat of the battle and sometimes you are unable to sense whether or not they are still conscious. That’s how I would rule it

My DM did this, and when my barbarian went down, she rolled a Failure & a Nat 1. I tried staying quiet in the voice chat, but I couldn't stop myself from saying, "...oh my god." Our healer even tried sending Healing Word my way, but on a perception check, they found out it was long past the time for healing. Incredible moment

@mayuwu4408

5 ай бұрын

holy shit.. wow. that is incredible I'm speechless

@anthonydeperino2046

5 ай бұрын

i love that you said "she" rolled instead of I rolled, its important to separate yourself from your character, and that is a prime example of doing so.

If you have a Life cleric or someone else who could sense death vs unconscious, they could be asked to roll perception or arcana and the DM could whisper the answer on a success. So tension still stays in RP, but keeps a sense of agency in the character.

@danielschultz9567

Жыл бұрын

Perception maybe, but arcana check? Are medicine checks just a joke to you?

@feitocomfruta

Жыл бұрын

@@danielschultz9567 to be perfectly honest, I forgot medicine checks were a skill. It’s been a while since I’ve been able to play okay?! 😭 (Totally joking, but I miss playing in a campaign. I’ve done a few oneshots but I want character growth and RP)

@haikall5479

Жыл бұрын

I always want to play but none of my friends are interested 😅

@haydentrumper7473

Жыл бұрын

I suggest broadening it out it someone with proficiency in medicine will know the death save results. Makes medicine a bit more impactful.

@feitocomfruta

Жыл бұрын

@@haydentrumper7473 so they can choose medicine (how badly are they bleeding out), arcana (or whatever you’d associate with connecting to spirits and ghosts who may be crossing over, someone tell me what skill you’d associate with it), or perception (do they notice them not moving at all). Then the details you can provide will clue them into their status. So for example, on two death save fails it could be… Success on Medicine: you see their wounds are severe, their complexion is becoming duller… Success on “Spirit”: you can sense the tether to your friend’s spirit is stretching and fraying… Success on Perception: you notice the ground around them is getting darker and wetter by the second…

I did this for the climactic battle when I ran Curse of Strahd. The Ranger went down and I had him roll secretly. He got a 1 and died while the fight was still happening. We didn't tell anyone until it was over and the elation of having beaten Strahd gave way to the sudden realisation of the loss they had suffered. It was climactic and amazing and I'll do it this way from now on.

@beesbrownies

Ай бұрын

That's so cool!

Hidden rolls is my favourite death save mechanic

@curtisholsinger6023

Жыл бұрын

(Suffers in ACOC and NeverAfter)

@edamommy

Жыл бұрын

When I played with this mechanic, it was very impactful the first time. Super high tension, really felt like the PCs were in peril. Over time though, because each death save was treated the same, it became a reflex of "PC goes down, secret roll, immediately revive them." Maybe it's because I was a grave cleric haha

@TheBeastBoss04

Жыл бұрын

That's literally just Horcruxes, what do you mean?

@MoonlitMongrel

Жыл бұрын

​@edamommy that's the intended purpose though. Your ally is important to your character, so why would the risk the unknown. I can understand how it might become a mechanical choice, but the theme is the important aspect

@C._Bradford

Жыл бұрын

Death saves in general a are totally bogus mechanic. Totally sucks all the meaning out of character death by taking player agency away for the last several turns before they die. Want to make the sacrifice play? Nope, it's totally impossible with death saves. Want to give a final speech before you die? Nope, it's totally impossible with death saves. Sure, this homebrew makes death saves more intense, but they are a fundamentally flawed mechanic to begin with. What they need is to be replaced, not fixed.

Just a pointer for anyone looking to incorporate this in their games: Remember to keep rolling a d20 on your turn, even if you're already fully dead or stabilized, until someone heals you or rolls high enough on a medicine check to stabilize you.

@elliel.5915

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah, that's a good point. Keep rolling a d20 for five turns, because that's the maximum number of turns you would need to reach a conclusion.

@theendofit

11 ай бұрын

Does that sound fun to you? You being already dead and having to roll for no reason

@ziwuri

11 ай бұрын

@@theendofit I don't know that it's necessarily supposed to be especially fun for the person rolling. It builds suspense and raises the stakes for everyone else at the table.

@Sturmjager

11 ай бұрын

​@@theendofitit would for me. I know it adds to my party members' investment in the game. And when they're invested, I'm invested. But maybe that's because I'm usually a DM so I know character death is a climactic of the game.

@theendofit

11 ай бұрын

@Sturmjager except this removes the climactic part of the death. They get to the end of the fight and its "oh yah i died 4 turns ago by the way" Its far mor climatic to be seeing that struggle to have players trying to reach you and possibly failing and knowing in that moment you died. In a movie they even pause the action often to have a moment to sit with a dying character its so important they dont just go "oh yah durring that last action sceene he died"

Brennan actually almost hits a second point to support the secret roll, which is having your players just roll a perception check to see where the downed character is at.

@undeathghost5627

Жыл бұрын

Medicine

@ActionCow69

6 ай бұрын

​@Squeekysquid perception is already the best skill in the game and medicine is super niche. I say give it to medicine if you're gonna try the idea.

It really speaks to Brennan's improvisation skills that he managed to come up with a compelling counterargument to an idea he loves so much

Having someone narrate a short life flashback when they fail a death saving throw, is one of the most genius ideas I've ever heard in my life.

One thing I might add is letting someone within 5 ft do a bonus action medicine check to see how close to dying they are.

@junietwoknees

Жыл бұрын

yeah, i think that makes sense, as someone close and focusing on the body would have the insight that a barbarian across the room dual wielding axes wouldn't have in the same moment.

@Kewlausgirl

Жыл бұрын

I like that idea

@Slexoss

Жыл бұрын

It's a great idea. Here's my version of it: Condition Check You can assess a creature's condition and determine how close they are to dying. As a Bonus Action, make a Wisdom/Intelligence (Medicine) Check on a Dying creature you can see. The DC equals the distance between the two of you. If you succeed, you learn how many Death Save Failures they have (and possibly Successes, at the DM's discretion). This makes commonly unused Skills like Medicine more useful, which is a good thing. I also allow Intelligence as an option for this, because it makes sense (IRL Doctors are very INT-based), and variant abilities for Skill Checks are cool IMO.

@email10jo

Жыл бұрын

@@Slexoss I would make the DC 2xdistance since it gets significantly harder to see if a wound is deadly or not if you're not directly next to someone but I like this idea

@Slexoss

Жыл бұрын

I changed one part I overlooked. The DC is 10 + the distance between both of you, so there's actually a DC when you're up close

i really like this idea as well. but also brennan somehow came up with a great counterpoint as well. so i think some kind of compromise can be made. in a typical situation, only the DM and the dying know if they fail or succeed their death saves, but also anyone who should, either canonically or through some acquired homebrewed passive skill or trait, also get to join in on being able to also see the dying roll the death saves alongside the DM. That would honestly be a cool addition to d20's future campaigns as well, in my opinion.

@sebcw1204

Жыл бұрын

that compromise would also give a little more agency to healer focused clerics. make it a component of deathwatch, since that lets you detect a variety of life conditions.

@klaykid117

Жыл бұрын

When I read the title and saw the actual argument, I feel like it was already compromised. I was imagining a Gary gygax style where the DM rolls the death saving throws behind the DM screen and doesn't tell the dying player what it is 😂🤣 I feel like Brendan would have had a much better time arguing against that

@MoonlitMongrel

Жыл бұрын

You could allow maybe party members to make Perception or medicine checks from a distance to see how "bad" the wound is, or whether the ally is shifting a bit on the ground slowly coming to consciousness.

@SoowDeJu

Жыл бұрын

Or have them roll a medicine check as a bonus action maybe

@markmittelbach7975

Жыл бұрын

@@sebcw1204 I like that it would make medicine very useful skill to have on a healer, even if they have good healing magic. Or having if your party has a player with powerful healing, still rewards you for taking medicine. That guy can give back 20hp in a round, but you are the one who can make sure people don't die.

I watched another videos that mentioned this concept and they used LOTR Fellowship film as an example, when frodo is stabbed by the troll, and how everyone rushed to save him. And that's exactly how I imagine someone going down should feel like.

I think the only real argument against this is that it makes an already stressful moment more stressful. The same reason why its so cool for some tables is the reason why other tables won't like it. My group would probably be ecstatic about introducing this rule, but I know there has to be a group that won't like it

@isays

Жыл бұрын

true - i think _most_ groups would like this, though. I think rules that align the feelings of the character with the feelings of the player _typically_ produce a more gratifying experience, even if that experience is also a sad one. but nothing is universal.

@woahblow4127

10 ай бұрын

I dont think it's that stressful tho. That's the problem

@kittyloaf8730

7 ай бұрын

I play with a lot of neurodivergent players. This is definitely something that would be inappropriate at some of our games.

I would LOVE to see Brennan run a session of Ten Candles. I think he would do extraordinarily well in that setting and I would PAY to see it XD

The thing with death saves is... they're three. So that balance behind mistery and revelation is lost, as it is slowly built. But with this homebrew, for the players is as if it was just one roll, and the dice just keeps rolling on the table before letting you know what happened. The tension behind the uncertainty the players face when they have no clue if their friend is about to die is magnificent.

I love Brennan's face here. He loves the idea so much just because it might be another way to mess with his players lmao

I sincerely thought that’s how death saves were supposed to be rolled always! My gm has done this since we started our campaign together over a year ago, and since we play online it makes it easier to do private rolls. Adds a lot of good stress for the whole party to what by all means should be an extremely dire situation.

Immediately implementing this house rule. Nothing takes me out of the game like a character choosing to ignore their dying friend because the player has out of game knowledge that the death saves are going well.

Many in comments are saying that only the DM knowing the roll is even better, because players can't read it off their friend's face/what they might choose to communicate; unfortunately DM-only causes a huge loss of agency because like others have said being told "your character died" is just insanely anti-climatic and emotionally empty. It causes a loss of faith in the DM, and can't help but cause you to wonder whether everything was being truly left to random roll. A DM could take photos of the rolls as proof to dispel that last bit, but if you think about the emotions surrounding a player death, how is a DM "providing proof" via swiping through a few photos going to make that experience more powerful? It isn't going to, it's just going to "gamify" the story and that lost sense of agency will still be there.

@markmittelbach7975

Жыл бұрын

I think this is even worse for death saves, because while your down you aren't doing anything. The tension of rolling the death save does a lot to help that lack of action. For me personally, knowing I had this secret knowledge would keep me more invested in the game.

@This_Justin998

Жыл бұрын

Legit, it's garbage and controlling. When I hear people push the idea that far I just think "Why not roll everything for your players? Them knowing that the monsters AC is 17 because they hit on a 17 and missed on a 16 is too much meta knowledge, roll everything for them, take their dice, they can only speak in character and tell me what they'd like to do." XD

@OlySamRock

Жыл бұрын

i like the idea of rolling behind the screen and then telling the character what they're at (2-1, 1-0, etc) but NOT telling them which is which. still tense and emotional since a player would be aware that something is about to happen but not fully knowing WHAT that thing is, whether they are on death's door or almost stable. definitely needs thought though!

@torifort717

Жыл бұрын

Dice rolls are entirely random. If you as the player arent allowed to tell people what the roll was, then unless people are cheating you have no more agency if you know the number or not. Instead, not having the number makes the tension of your death saves just as real for you as for everyone else. And if you're in a position where you don't trust your DM to be honest about it, then that should be just as true when they roll any other secret check. If the DM wants you to die and is willing to lie to do it, they can make it happen in any number of ways. You either trust your DM or you don't.

@This_Justin998

Жыл бұрын

@@torifort717 This is absolutely nonsensical. The tension comes from the randomness of the mechanic, from not knowing until you roll what the outcome will be. Taking away the later part of that and just making a player sit there to hear in a few turns a binary "you died" or "you're stable" is the opposite of tense, it's deflating and anti climactic. Agency IS lost because all players can do is participate in the random mechanics of the game, taking that away from them is a removal of agency. I'd rather trust my players to role play and participate in the world with the mechanics to make the story enjoyable and epic than take information and actions away from them because they should trust me, the former is much more conducive to good storytelling and ttrpg play.

Homebrew feat or Cleric ability: You get to see behind the screen for other players' death saving rolls.

One of my DMs had this rule in their Curse of Strahd game. Death saves were not only rolled blindly by the player so even they didn't know what they rolled (we played online in Foundry) but Death Saves rolled over until a long rest. These Death Save changes didn't cause more character deaths, it only caused one and it became one of the most impactful moments in the entire campaign for our healer when she couldn't keep the Paladin alive after he went down in a fight several times. It's a great rule that sounds scary at first but can add tension to what is usually just another strategic point in combat of "we know he can still fail three we can leave him on the ground for a while if we have to".

Word of caution: my DM has this rule, but a little different. Instead, he rolls it privately behind the screen and not even the player knows the outcome. When implemented in this way, it becomes far too easy for the players to disassociate and the rolling of the save suddenly becomes a nothing thing. Instead of ratcheting up the tension, it completely sucks all tension out because the players are barely even aware it's happening.

@fibbthehuman

Жыл бұрын

could mean as well that the dm has far too much control in that instance to decide the fate of the player, because he could simply lie. You'd really have to trust your DM to not fudge the dice, and while I do know in D&D if need be it's even encouraged to fudge some numbers, the idea that for one of the most important roles of a campaign you just have to trust the DM's word, feels not only scary but unsatisfying as the potential dead player and rest of the party will feel foul play.

@briaseis

Жыл бұрын

I’m pro-private roll, anti-DM roll, honestly. I feel like it takes agency away from the player, and also accountability in a sense? Like I’m not saying it’s a healthy reaction, but it would be a natural reaction to be upset or even a little resentful if *someone else* (effectively) made your character die. Yeah, the rolls are random regardless, but I’d feel weird about someone else telling me that my own character is dead. And this is even if I fully love and trust my DM.

@jasonutty52

Жыл бұрын

I've been doing that DM rolls thing for like 3+ years as a dm in my current campaign and it always add a fantastic amount of tension. Not sure if it's just your group or if my group is special or something. Never been an issue and we have done it both ways before and it hasn't really been different. (I have also been in a few games like this from the player perspective and also enjoyed it.)

@sozi6862

Жыл бұрын

My players asked me to roll their death saves and told me to not tell them the result unless they died. I was like "are you sure?" and that's what they wanted. I rolled 3 nat 1's in a row killing two of them XD Now as a player in a new campaign (same group) someone is tracking nat 1's and nat 20's. I have over double the amount of nat 1's than 20's. I was like "THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T ASK ME TO ROLL FOR YOU GUYS" hahahaha I do think that players should roll their own dice. Your fate should be yours to roll for. The DM rolling should only be done if the player asks for it, but even then I'd caution them against it. Nat 1's are brutal and plentiful in these moments XD

@soldierbreed

Жыл бұрын

It just feels cheap failing a roll for your character that you didn't roll. No thanks

Johnny is jacked

@MrJohill

Жыл бұрын

yeah he's a football player

My group's DM has been using this rule for death saves for the whole time I've played with them (for roughly 2 years now) and it really does bring a lot of suspense to the table. Every single time someone goes down, we always immediately scramble to get them back on their feet as soon as possible, simply because our whole table is under the effects of some kind of evil curse that makes us always roll nat 1s when they'd be most devastating. (for anyone unfamiliar, RAW a nat 1 fails 2 death saves instead of just one) The fact that a downed character can be so close to dying so quickly, has a profound impact on how we as players react to a party member going down, and as a result it significantly changes how we as players respond in those situations (in my opinion, for the better).

I love Brennans reaction as soon as the meat of the idea came across the table, like you can tell he immediately loved it

This came up as a youtube short for me the other day, which got me into checking out the rest of the channel and subscribing. I didn't realize the whole video hadn't come out yet, I thought I just couldn't find it. What a great idea.

Another way to get your players to treat death saves with a sense of urgency is to include an enemy that is a little extra bloodthirsty who continues to attack them while they are unconscious. After you do this once they will snap to attention immediately any time someone goes down.

@trailblazer225

11 ай бұрын

*Spoilers for A Crown of Candy* Also known as the Sir Keradin Deeproot strategy

I will forever be using this at my table going forward. I love this so much.

we have a thing like this, there are only two classes in our campaigns that can tell. The opposite ends of the spectrum, a class focused on life and a class focused on total and absolute darkness. If you aren't either of those, then you don't know until combat is over. We do allow RP on the roll if it's 1-2 or 19-20.

Damn it John! How dare you be so thoughtful and evocative.

I've been using this rule for 3 campaigns now and it's totally changed the drama of a downned ally. The tension is visible and every one is worried cause you never know

Starting a campaign in two days and I’m absolutely adding that rule. What a great episode

Super respect the framing of this home rule being 1) between the DM and the player and 2) up to the player to opt into. I've almost exclusively seen this idea pushed as the DM rolls secret death saves for the players and I could not disagree with that idea more and believe that is bad DM practice, but keeping the downed players agency in that VERY important moment that could result in death is paramount imo. I personally don't even feel that this version of the rule adds that much to how I play so I can fulfill Brennans role. I've never had any moment where a downed player resulted in other players going "Oh well they'll be fine for a turn or two." (and I'll argue if I witness a player doing that, I'd judge them as not a very good role player or perhaps I've failed at engrossing them into this world and/or forming a connection with these characters.) It's always been tense, and I feel the whole table knowing a pass or a fail serves to add to the tension more than making the rolls a mystery would. If I want to combat that tension waning, I'd implement the optional rule that raises a success on death save to 15, THAT will raise tension.

@notednuance

Жыл бұрын

I think there are pros and cons to both the normal rule and this version of a private roll. Not everyone who plays ttrpg's are "good" role players in that... for some people it is very difficult to divorce meta knowledge from character knowledge and at least anectodotally, combat seems to be where that happens the most... well... other than character creation/leveling right? tons of meta gaming happens there for lots of players where they pick choices based solely on how powerful it will make the character rather than making purely narrative choices. As with everything... it'll depend on the folks round the table what will better serve fun. I don't know that it would change my players behavior much either direction to be honest, but narratively I like that the downed character can feel themselves dying or not... but has no way to communicate that to the party. I'm also not sure a player deciding to wait a turn or two would make them a bad role player right? it would depend on the character. I could easily see a raging barbarian being too caught up in the remaining fight to stop and tend to their fallen comrade, or a selfish character looking out for themselves first, now maybe you want them to have the explicit knowledge so they can counter what the character would do when its too risky... but it could also be fun to have their flaws have a harder time navigating consequences.

@This_Justin998

Жыл бұрын

@@notednuance You seem to missunderstand my point, deciding not to jump to your downed allies aid for a role play reason is of course valid. Hence why my example is if players do it solely for mechanical "oh odds are they'll be fine for two turns" which is not fair to the story being told, or that poor fellow player who can do nothing for those two turns. So in that specific example, which is the one that people arguing for this home rule lean on as a crutch, my point is that is a fault that falls on the players attitude, not the mechanics.

In added to my campaign and it’s such a game changer. Especially for two characters who have history with each other and one of the goes down. It really helps people stay in character in those intense encounters.

Started a new campaign about 9 months ago and this is how the dm is doing death saves and it's the best. So tense every time

Another bit for death saves I always warn players in session 0: This is a world where magical healing exists, and it is common knowledge that such exists. Don't expect intelligent enemies to let you bleed out slowly waiting for a cleric, they will coup de grace when given the opportunity.

@JacklynBurn

6 ай бұрын

This one definitely depends on system, and I can say that it doesn't work in 5e. Rolls to-hit get advantage and i think you lose either your armor AC bonus or your Dex, but even without that, a hit is an automatic crit. I had it happen to me once while playing a tank, and it was just an issue of "baddie rolled well and the healer couldn't get to me". I roll my one save, and fail it. That's fine, there's still a chance that I might get out of this, until the DM hits me with that coup de grace and now I'm just dead. No chance for recovery, no tension of hoping I might manage to pull out some good rolls and live by the skin of my teeth, just "fuck you, sit out the next hour or so of this combat encounter" (we were too low level for anyone to have a way to revive me mid-fight). Maybe it's more realistic, maybe it's a good chance for there to be some roleplay about what a bastard the big baddie is, etc etc, but the dead player doesn't get to be a part of that. They got shitstomped without any control and the combat has to resolve before anything can happen, so they just get to sit there like a player who went bankrupt in Monopoly.

Been doing this for a while now. Heard about it first from XP to level 3 and it is one of the best pieces of advice for DnD I’ve ever heard.

I love that this topic immediately broke Brennan from taking the opposing stance and turned this into 9 minutes of enthusiastic agreement

"An eleven or higher and you live" The depth and gravity of his voice with those few words...

My group has been doing the private death save thing since we've begun playing together. It's been there with us since i was introduced to 5e, and honestly it just feels right. It adds much more tension and helps avoid metagame.

This is incredibly validating for me, back when I was making a ruleset for my group a year or so back, hidden death saves was one of my favorite ones I came up with for that ruleset. We haven't used it in my friend's campaign yet since despite being pummelled a lot we hardly go down, however I look forward to the day when hidden death saves comes into play. And after feedback from my group, I also made it so if you are within 15 feet of a dying creature and have proficiency in Medicine, you know how many successes and/or fails they have. I also agree with the revealed DC of public rolls for important moments or moments with quite clear consequences, because I'm more an advocate for "I need this kind of check" rather than "I need this kind of check and the DC is this" because I'm all for the momentary mystery of success or failure, however for moments where the stakes are high whether for good or bad? The emphasis of the known DC just adds to that roll, players and DM alike can have that slow heartbeat moment as the die is cast and the total revealed.

My group have been having the DM roll death saves in secret for a long time now. Makes everything so much more intense and removes the unavoidable meta-game in-combat decision making!

I started doing this about a year ago, and I've never gone back. I'm ecstatic to see someone else doing this.

Oh man, hidden Death Saves is such a good rule.

My group plays with this, and there has been moments when I really thought my friends characters are DEAD dead. It really makes you care a lot more when a character is downed!

We do this at my table, it really hypes up the drama between the players and the dm its amazing!

Ooooh, we do this in our Pathfinder campaign (secret saves). It adds SO much tension, because it keeps that instinctual metagame of “oh, they have so many successes, they’re fine” from being a thing. We have NO idea what’s happening, so EVERYONE is now focused on saving that party member and it makes for AMAZING development / team building RP. Main difference for us is even WE don’t know what the roll is. It’s an entirely hidden DM roll, so we don’t know if we’re alive or dead even when combat ends or someone tries to heal us. It’s terrifying and exhilarating at the same time.

This is the way that we've been rolling death saves in our campaign and it's great! Not only does it let the DM amp up the tension, but so can the player. It is definitely the way to go.

Johnny was such a cool guest

Loving these contested rolls

8:29 "what I love about that, too is there are certain mechanics that aid roleplaying by being revealed, and there are certain mechanics that aid roleplaying by being concealed." Give that man all the awards!

My homebrew I want to try is every time you start death saves and then get brought back up through healing, it adds a level of exhaustion. So you might not see huge effects the first or second time you get back up, but it prevents players from constantly playing whackamole where your healer brings you up with healing word on their bonus action every turn, and there's actually incentive to heal players while they're still up and make sure they don't reach 0 HP. Or maybe you get one 'freebie' but the second time you die and get back up, it adds levels of exhaustion each time after that

My best argument againts secret death saving throws... is just Hitchcock. And the build up of tension. Every roll being a tense moment and while a success might give that rush of relief, of being safe... each failure makes the following roll even more stressful. I mean, hell, even if the player rolls above 10... if the rest of their party don't use their turns to try to save them THAT IS A GAMBLE AND THEY KNOW IT. Like when two of my players were down, with two failures both, and the third player had to chose, cause they KNEW the next roll could be the last, whom they would manage to save first (and yes, one of the players actually died on their next roll).

Johnny Stanton is awesome.

Been doing this for a few months in both of my new campaigns that started in January and I will never go back now.

I love this idea for death saves so much... Like so, so much

If you don't wanna commit to hidden death rolls for the whole campaign, I could see this being a cool onetime boss/lair mechanic. Like players arrive and there's this thick low hanging fog, and it's only when someone goes down that the dm reveals that no one can see your body on the ground, so all death rolls will be rolled secretly

That sir is a wonderful addition, with the hidden death roll.😂 my play are going to hate me. ❤

I’m doing this from now on. Genius.

After I heard about this rule I told my DM to use it in our campaign and he was all for it! So much fun.

I’ve ran this in a 2 year long campaign and it worked AMAZING. Someone going down was *always* a big deal and my players LOVED it. It made those scenes TENSE. Would HIGHLY recommend.

i adopted it. it _works._ had a player death in a run of Light of Xaryxis, only like four sessions in so not a lot of time to really fall in love with the character. in fact, the party had just had a fight amongst themselves the session before, and tensions were high if anything. there were genuine tears at the table over a character no one even liked that much from how hard the moment hit. i should note, as well - i took the rule even a little further. not even the player knew the result. DM only roll, no information until they're up or they're dead.

I use this in my game and it is amazing. it's amazing to see my players stressing out to see if their party character will be alive next turn and it makes them think before they act. it makes a good story.

honestly love this idea bc tension gets so heightened. imagine ur party member dies but nobody knows, and when someone goes to heal you, ur dm can be like ur spell doesn’t work bc they r dead. saves and fails all a secret, nobody knows if ur member is alive or dead. Makes it so that the cleric or ppl with healing magic r way more tense and makes it so much more urgent. yipee

@_Crunchy

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I've played with the rule before, and after your buddy having been down for 4 turns (we really couldn't help earlier) it's a really interesting feeling knowing that you might be "wasting" your potion or spell on a dead person. It is really dramatic though to administer your healing potion and then look to the DM/ Player to see if it worked.

I'm so, so, sooooo glad Brennan didn't fight this argument like he had to win it. I love to hear the pros and cons discussed without artificially making it into some campy game. Great show!

This has been on reddit and in the D&D community for at least 5 years and I've been using it since then. I think just like Brennan, everyone is on board for it.

In my games, mechanic knowledge isn't considered metagaming. The same way you know how many HP the barbarian has because you've seen him take hits like that in the past like they were nothing, he's fine. Death saves, you can see the body writhing, desperately putting pressure on the stab wound with a 13 already rolled.... But so can the monster, who, on it's next turn might want to ENSURE that their prey STAYS down.

Next campaign I run I am using as well. Such a good ruling!

This is honestly a really great idea.

Perfect, I'm starting a campaign on Sunday :D

I like how Brennan switched sides immediatly and nothing was argued at all lol

This is one of the coolest ideas I've heard in a lllooonnnggg time, we'll done, friend!

A House rule I use as DM of my group is: All healing abilities in the game are doubled. When reduced to 0 HP you gain a point of exhaustion. These clear as normal from long rests. The idea is to make healing feel more effective at keeping people up rather than to save them once already down. Also makes being reduced to 0 more impactful. Getting reduced to 0 then getting the old 1 hp restore to get up and back in the fight multipole times per encounter becomes very costly as your character is reduced in ability and scaled by the amount of times you were knocked down until you can die from exhaustion. Basically your body gives out from the amounts of trauma you experienced. 1 year running this rule and we love it. Makes healer feel like a viable play style.

Me and my buddies have implemented this rule into our campaigns and it’s so much better than public death saves. It captures the tension of someone being on the verge of death perfectly. We will never go back.

I've been waiting for this video after seeing the short

I did this for a little bit during my current campaign and the tension was real. Bringing that PC back up became priority #1 for the party. The only reason I stopped doing it was in favor of using two other house rules which the players like a lot more.

This I’ve always love and have thought to do a similar with insight rolls to remove the paradox of the player knowing how good their roll is and extrapolating more information.

This is awesome, I'm taking, I'm using it forever. It is right, and no amount of argument can ever convince me otherwise.

The first time I played DnD the DM had this rule and now I always use it when I DM. The players love it - makes for a lot more interesting tension and strategic decisions when the party is in desperation mode. I find it is also very fun for the player who is down because they have secret information and have to watch in awe or horror as the rest of the party tries to figure out what to do.

this is something that I have just started to implement. Have yet to have a character go down so we shall see how cool it is.

I have added this rule when dming and a dm for me started using this rule. Amazing the change it made to game play and story telling.

This is a great idea and I shall be implementing it with my crew

This is a great idea! It would definitely implement this.

Because we're online, my party has been rolling whispered death saves for the past 2 years. Awesome🤣

I use this rule since I started DM'ing and I love it. As part of this rule, when a player does a medicine check to stabilize a player, even if they fail, they learn the amount of successes and failures the dying player has. This way, even a player who would not attempt a medicine check (because of a low ability modifier or not having proficiency) has some incentive to do so.

I've been playing this rule for about 5 years. It's amazing.

Another addition to this I would love to implement would be to have it be TRULY a hidden roll. Have the other players leave the room or deafen if it's virtual. Then when it is just the DM/GM and PC, you do the roll and if it's low enough, you can explain a specific injury that the PC would then have the choice of concealing for X amount of time and revealing it how or if they see fit or risk passing out randomly if they hide it too long.

I did secret death saves for the first time recently. The STRESS my players exhibited and the urgency with which they treated the situation was MWAH, chef's kiss all round

I have done this loads of times, the SUSPENSE is crazy.

Brennan's DM voice coming in was a little stunning to me because I wasn't expecting it lol - he really does just drop like 2 octaves for serious moments huh

That’s why I like pathfinder 2e - any roll that a character wouldn’t know in-game whether or not they succeeded on isn’t rolled visibly by the player, but by the GM behind a screen, which keeps the implications of whatever they’re told or see less obvious and keeps the feeling centred on what the character themselves would feel.

we just implemented this at our table and i freaking love it! My character rolled below a ten 3 times, used an inspiration roll to reroll the last one and got a ten. our paladin healed me the next turn but i was that close to dying and the party had no idea!

the hard look to camera as he says he's stealing it. His next campaign is going to break us all

We started having the DM roll death saves behind the screen. I like it that way. It adds a suspense and a weight to the game when I'm sitting at the table after two rounds of saves, not knowing if my character is alive or dead.

I LOVE this idea.

The way we do it on our campaign is i (dm) roll secret death saves most of the time however i get the player to roll the last dice but they dont know if its the 3rd success or 3rd failure. So far not had anyone actually die but its adds soo much to the tension not knowing whats happening or how long is left

I've actually been doing this for about a year now. I don't even tell my players when they're dead (though thankfully this has never happened yet). It's super fun, and it prevents the innate metagaming that comes with death saves. My groups actually let me do the rolls as DM so that they don't have to worry about their own luck and stuff.

I don't even personally play DND and I love that idea. Really adds suspense!

Definitely a big fan of the DM rolling death saves. If you get to the players turn when they're still rolling I'll usually give an ambiguous description of them encountering the afterlife. Or will tell them they're in the process of bleeding out what do they want to do, and give them a pseudo turn where they can't move but might be able to take an action or say something

this is the best rule I've ever heard, is perfect for tables that prioritize inter-party conflict and RP, i need to see it more