Apple should really bring back the dudes that delivered the Mac Anniversary in a limo once they bring out the Apple Silicon Mac Pro. It’s gonna cost your soul so might as well make it worth it.

@Sevenfeet0

Жыл бұрын

It was a young Jonny Ive actually.

@minty_Joe

Жыл бұрын

@Zaydan Naufal I don't think money is a problem for Apple; they can afford 100K to pull that off... unless you mean it'll cost the new owner $100K.

A Descendents shirt two TAM episodes ago, now a NOFX shirt? This is my kind of channel.

Dude. Your camerawork on the TAM's LCD is ON POINT. For awhile, I forgot that I was looking at an LCD panel and thought it was a direct capture.

@SullySadface

Жыл бұрын

Pair that with the subwoofer and you can totally forget that it's actually camera capture

The worst part about BGA chips: Before you can solder them on, you have to reball them I believe. Reballing BGAs is the devil.

@AGAMERTEAM

Жыл бұрын

You're right, you do definitely have to recall the chip

Just when I thought the insanity had reached its peak. This is one of the coolest Macintoshes I've ever seen. Too bad the CD drive has given up.

@jordananderson8299

Жыл бұрын

In the first video on the TAM I commented asking him to look in the Powerbook's CDROM drive and see if the parts are the same. Looks like he did not notice my comment

Plenty of PPC chips were mostly pin compatible: BGA 603, 604, 740; 750, 7400, 7410; 750fx, 750gx. They may need voltage adjustments, or a few pins may need to be pulled up or down to get new chips to work in older boards, but otherwise they fit on the same grid. The 750 is basically a reworked 603e with more L1 cache and built-in backside L2 cache control (the 740 was the same but without the L2 cache, hence its 603/604 grid compatibility). The 7400 is a 604e with the same treatment (more caches and onboard L2 cache control) but its big improvement was AltiVec. However, unless you're running Mac OS 9 (or X, which the TAM never will) and apps that are AltiVec optimized, there's not a ton of benefit to going with a G4 over a G3: the G4 is hotter and more power-hungry than the G3 while performing only marginally faster at the same MHz. You also usually have to reinstall OS 9 after putting in a G4 upgrade, or the AltiVec libraries aren't available to the OS or many apps.

Don't you need to install the Sonnet G4 Enabler 9 in the system folder to activate the AltiVec instructions? I'd also try rebuilding the desktop file if you're not seeing the performance increase you would expect. Maybe try using included "Metronome" utility to see if it's reporting the same wonky clock speed as the system profiler. It should also show things like bus speed, etc to help you figure out if your overclock is working as intended.

@D0Samp

Жыл бұрын

Even with the correct enabler, MacBench 5.0 does not seem to use AltiVec anyway. It's pretty in line with historic benchmarks that integer performance is nearly identical between G3 and G4 of the same frequency while only (scalar) FPU performance is improved.

I say go for the triple boot option just because you can. Besides, down the Linux path at least, you may even find a GUI environment with lower processor and memory overhead and get even more performance out of it.

@kbhasi

Жыл бұрын

Yep! I'm reminded of an old X window manager that was made to look like classic Mac OS, and I remember someone else did something similar that attempted to replicate Apple's 'Platinum' visual style.

@YourIdeologyIsDelusional

Жыл бұрын

@@kbhasi I tried that newer one replicating Platinum... I still think Platinum is a great UI, even to this day. Unfortunately, it was broken in some ways, and I don't think it's going to be updated. It uses XFCE, which is a good choice since it functions like the Platinum interface to begin with, but XFCE made some changes that broke the Platinum scrollbar graphics and some other stuff, sadly.

Could you do an upgrade of an original G3 iMac? Would be very curious to see what the upper limit for upgrades on one would be.

@IanC14

Жыл бұрын

Iirc, there's was a G4 CPU upgrade and I think you can add FireWire too? I know someone made a Voodoo GPU upgrade for the OG iMac

I think tripple booting the Tam with BeOS is a terrible idea, AND I would like to see it. 😅

If you use OS9Helper, XPostFacto, and LeopardAssist you can get Leopard or the PPC beta of Snow Leopard running on this. Imagine running the OSes of the original metal iMacs on a machine that inspired them. Especially with the space background one always saw in those ads. If you use InterWebPPC, you can actually browse the modern web on that TAM in that OS.

@sixteenbitify

Жыл бұрын

I would even be impressed if he could run ANY version of OS X on the TAM. I tried some googling and cannot find any TAM owner running any version of OS X on their TAM.

@stgigamovement

Жыл бұрын

@@sixteenbitify people have ran leopard on Power Mac 8500s.

@sixteenbitify

Жыл бұрын

@@stgigamovement Yeah, that is certainly possible. I have a 9600 that runs 10.5 Leopard with a G4 card. But the TAM is a weaker machine compared to the 8500/8600/9500/9600 and still haven’t seen anyone running OS X on the TAM yet.

@stgigamovement

Жыл бұрын

@@sixteenbitify it's definitely possible, it would just be slow. But seeing the galaxy background from leopard and snow leopard seen in ads of aluminum macs would be funny on the TAM. Like the ancestor of said macs

Apple secret police open up!! Oh its just a TAM never mind

Excellent upgrades!! Would love to see the double boot or even triple boot!! Thanks for sharing

11:26 The 50 MHz bus on the TAM is probably hindering the performance of that G4.

@Michael-Archonaeus

Жыл бұрын

That would not surprise me at all. After all it's two generations older than the G4, Apple weren't planning to upgrade this thing lol

I think you should do a segment where you 3D print a custom back with built in fan mounts and air flow solution.

I had no clue that they sent an expansion cover for the back of it. Thats literally just so cool because I didn't even know you could do that!

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, I have a TAM sitting in the garage with a G3 upgrade new in box and a 4 port USB card. Maybe when I have time I'll see if it still starts.

Love the NOFX shirt! Also love the descendants shirt in the last video! Punk and Old Macs! Awesome combo!

Loving these TAM vids, many thanks!

9:10 I don't know if you fixed it, but it appears you have the fan mounted the wrong way around. As it's fitted there, it'll exhaust air out from the case to the outside. You can check on the fan shroud, but for 99.99% of fans (and all Noctuas, AFAIK), the intake side is the one with no obstruction and the exhaust side is the one with the fan hub label on it.

@SimonQuigley

Жыл бұрын

There's also usually a couple of little arrows molded into the plastic surround which show you the blade rotation and airflow directions

@amp888

Жыл бұрын

@@SimonQuigley Yeah, sorry, that's what I meant by checking on the fan shroud, but I should've expanded on that. Thanks.

Congrats on this great video!! I do have an old 6500 Mac with the Credcendo G3 upgrade sitting for years without booting. I will give it a try now!!

This design held up so well, IMO. If they reintroduced this today with modern guts it wouldn't look too out of place.

@FoxSock

Жыл бұрын

l o l

This has been a great series, I subscribed off the back of it! Looking forward to future series.

Having the fans pointed outward as exhaust fans was definitely the best idea.

Thanks for the saturday morning shows, this one was awesome, as always!

Pushing the boundaries of personal computing.... twenty years after the fact. Love it!!

You are a crazy man and I love it! Keep making these fun retro tech videos.

Triple booting you say... Potentially terrible idea you say... You should totally do it! Thanks for all of the fantastic shenanigans.

Sean you never cease to impress man! Love to see the triple boot!

It's a terrible idea, but I'd really love to see it! ;-) Actually what I'd like to see is FreeBSD 13.1, in this release they finally removed GCC and fully replaced it with Clang/LLVM, if you do an optimized recompile expressly for the G4 ISA you should see a significant performance boost.

@linuxization4205

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, BSDs are lighter on ram than Linuxes. I would also love to see any type of Unix running on this machine!

@linuxization4205

Жыл бұрын

Maybe even upgrade the amount of ram???

@SenileOtaku

Жыл бұрын

@@linuxization4205 ANY type of Unix?? It's a PowerPC processor from when IBM and Apple were collaborating. Maybe try running AIX?

@linuxization4205

Жыл бұрын

​@@SenileOtaku Never saw AIX run on a PowerPC mac, but go for it!

pcb way also cam make flexible pcbs, you could probably make and replace the broken cd drive cable

Thumbs up for bringing back the tam, AND nofx!

I've spent a lot of hours using my Performa 6360 which has a very similar logic board, but with a 160MHz 603ev on a 40MHz bus. I suspect the slow screen drawing when you booted with extensions off was because accelerated graphics extensions weren't loaded, not because the stock 250MHz 603ev was too slow to draw the desktop/Finder in OS 9.1.

I love your videos. Just love them. -SuperYosh from Unprepared Films

Love the shirt, your content is fantastic. Keep up the good work!

Crazy build. The tiny fan was facing the wrong way. Your blowing out not in.

This was Tamrrific!!!!!! Loved It!!!!

Welcome to the G4 TAM Party, Sean! Big fan, long time viewer! 😎

@ActionRetro

Жыл бұрын

Woohoo!

@zoopercoolguy

Жыл бұрын

I saw your thread on the 68kMLA. Pretty impressive work on your TAM.

@JustinRied

Жыл бұрын

@@zoopercoolguy Thanks! It's been a fun project. Although I am extremely disappointed with myself for not initially welcoming Sean to the "G4 TAM Fam!"

apple system profiler displaying a highly improbable clockspeed is just your TAM saying "I AM SPEED!"

cool keep pushing it farther !!!!!

Sonnet Crescendo software comes with "Metronome" which is their own readout software for the system extension

Absolutely do the triple boot. And bonus points for the NOFX shirt. I got to see them in concert about 25 years ago here in NJ at a really small venue and it was a really great show.

I’d like to see how a triple boot setup would work nice job!

Your channel is a hidden gem.

That fan is so janky.. and I love it!! Awesome

@Action Retro , My guess is the PCBs you have in that box at 3:30 are to be populated with both a CPU and Coprocessor for a 68020 or 68030.

About the slower speeds at ~11:30, I ran into this on my G4 PowerTower Pro as well (also with the g3 upgrades). The system bus and memory speeds are what are killing you. To put in as a car analogy, you can put an LS block in a fiat, but you are still going to deal with an undersized transmission, poor gear ratios, small wheels, limited suspension and brakes, etc - and it will never perform like a Corvette. It will however, be a beast of a FIAT.

Best episode t-shirt choice ever.

What model is that USB ethernet adapter you are using? I had thought you were going to use a CommII ethernet card but I know those are hard to find -- looks like maybe a tight fit? I'm impressed with how much fits in there.

I'm just now realizing the TAM stands for 20th Anniversary Mac... if you'll excuse me I have to go sit in shame for a few moments.

With as smooth as some of these crazy updates seem to be going through on this machine, maybe it's a blessed macintosh instead of a cursed one.

that fan you put in was actully blowing out of the back of the case and not sucking cool air in

I'm not a Mac person (have a particular distaste for Apple really), but I do find these videos interesting, especially the hardware upgrades, BeOS, and Linux installs. I noticed there appear to be 2 cache slots. Is it possible to add extra cache even with the G4 upgrade installed? Would it even make a difference? Or would a dual G4 set up be possible?

Thank action retro keep providing such vaulable information about Mac. today I encounter the biggest discaster with my TAM. I try to replace the harddisk somehow the os didnot boot up and no respond and I try to recharge the battery and power on again. nothing pop up on the screem. would you be able to tell me why and how i could fix it . thx in advance.

That is one awesome Mac. I would love to see the triple boot setup! Would it be possible to do a quad boot with Morph OS?

@timothyp8947

Жыл бұрын

That was the first question that sprang to my mind too 😊

I think a triple booting TAM would be amazing to see! Or at least an attempt!

Silly, and I love everything about it !

Action Retro is the TRUE Mac Daddy

Did you try the 500mhz after improving the fan situation? I wonder if that helped?

Triple boot it! Also, did you try the 500MHz with the dual fans?

Would Doom and Quake run on the TAM or need too much RAM? I ran both on a 604e 9500 OS91 back in the day and still have the original Mac cdroms. Altivec ports perhaps? Dark Forces had a PPC release as well. Might be some fun games to add to the videos and compare the original releases to newer ports.

fantastic and consider painting the screen bezel black

best youtube channel

TAM + NOFX = Hell yes!

I say go for a triple boot system. No guts no glory 😁

With the better cooling, would it now boot with the higher speed?

I think it's a great idea to triple boot 🌞👍🏻

That “random Apple employee” was Jony Ive when he had hair haha

Yep, please do the BeOS thing.✌

Would love to see this running BeOS and Linux certainly. I used to run Ubuntu on a clamshell iBook G3 years ago.

This is a true frankenmac. It is both one of the most ridiculous and most awesome things I have ever seen. 🎉

I'd love to see some more detailed benchmarks as I've never heard of a L2 upgrade being swapped with a G4 CPU. Sonnet made G4s for PCI Powermacs and even made one for the x100 series of Nubus Powermacs, but there was never a retail G4 upgrade for L2. I wonder if it was a heat/power consideration. Or perhaps it wasn't worth the cost. Or 603e machines that topped out around 128MB of RAM weren't worth upgrading that far. Or maybe the L2 slot was too much of a bottleneck for the more demanding G4, or couldn't handle it well enough, similar to the faster Sonnet upgrades that would downclock the B&W G3 bus. Maybe we can now find out! I'd suggest something that can utilize Altivec as it seems MacBench doesn't, or does so insufficiently. Maybe Altivec Fractal Carbon?

Loving the Nofx t shirt there!

Let’s see that Action!

Cokie the Clown is one of my favorite songs.

I also love NOFX and old macs. :)

I have a weird question/suggestion could you use g5's with modern AIO or Air cooled Fans after all, cooling tech is improved substantially...

interesting to see you go with USB to Ethernet. Does the comm slot ii card fit in with all of the other mods?

@ActionRetro

Жыл бұрын

Haha nope, it doesn't fit over the two slot riser

This video needs more Tim Tams.

Great G4 Upgrade Sean Herd Is tHe Man

I dunno, I really like the TAM design. It's pleasing to look at, so I dig the form factor and I wish companies still made interesting computers like this.

Is there any technical reason you can't try to shoehorn early OS X onto it via XPostFacto? GPU limitations?

Nice shirt. I got to see NOFX live in Halifax.

Could you explain the triple boot plan one more time? I'm a little blurry on the specifics 😁

I wonder if you could order a new custom flex cable for the internal cdrom through one of the chinese pcb vendors, if you take photos of the broken one and get it scaled correctly it shouldn't be too hard to draw a new gerber on top

@richfiles

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, this actually sounds like a great idea.

@19:40 - YES, make it tripple boot. And run WinXP as Virtual PC. That should be able to stress the processor.

When you boot with extensions off, it turns off the graphics acceleration extension too. That's why widow redraw was so slow. It wasn't the 603e.

What’s the story with OSX on the G3 or G4 upgrade?

That Noctua fan is back to front, it's blowing air out of the case, not sucking it in.

It would be really nice to 3D print a cover for the side of the Mac. Now it looks very hacky. Anyway, great job!

G4 has better internal cache and pipe-lining algorithms if you're wondering why it can beat a g3 clock for clock... Also, sonnet clocker was programmed in RealBasic because it uses the RealBasic Default Application Icon. Pretty Fun Rapid Development toolkit. Maybe, something you could do a video on. The processor speed is wrong because the Sonnet Clocker probably wants the default speed of the upgrade card and not of the processor you're installing. Since the processor doesn't set it's own clock speed.

we need the TAM to boot OS X even if its only 10.0

@stgigamovement

Жыл бұрын

XPostFacto and Leopard Assist can be used to get even the PPC beta Snow Leopard running on a G4 before 467MHz. So you can run the OS of those aluminum iMacs on their visual ancestor.

Triple boot, triple boot! Also, maybe upload it on a Tuesday.

...and we have chime, but do we have fan-spin?

Tam stuff is cool yes triple boot it. Also replace optical drive with super drive?

Looking at the machine, does it have two Cache slots? If so, do you have to use the upgrade in the lower slot only. Or, what is the other white slot for?

@ActionRetro

Жыл бұрын

That's actually an unused rom slot

@teg24601

Жыл бұрын

@@ActionRetro - Ahh.

Happy to see it worked but seemswithout any significant gain speed wise. Is it possible to use a higher G4 like1 ghz?

@GGigabiteM

Жыл бұрын

There's no significant speed gain because the G4 isn't any faster than a G3, the only benefit it has are the Altivec units. If you aren't utilizing them, there's no point in using a G4. Additionally, the bus speed in the Gazelle logic board is only 40 or 50 MHz, which is a huge bottleneck. It was already a problem with the stock 603e processors, especially once you go past 300 MHz. You could put a 2 GHz CPU in it, and it still wouldn't be any faster because the CPU is completing work faster than the bus can send/receive it.

@MykonianVillas

Жыл бұрын

@@GGigabiteM there must be though significant speed difference if a higher speed g4 can be used but I suppose there are some bus speed limitations

I really want to see you make a triple booting TAM!

So you upgraded the upgrade card?

is it possible to get OS X onto a TAM?