At about 08:00 Kemi is labelled Oulu and the next unlabelled dot to the south is really Oulu.

It's not only the distance, it is also the massive fee you have to pay for the passage of the Suez canal. High enough that some ship chose for the route around Africa.

This proposed railway /may/ be even desirable. However: 1) A railway on the Swedish side may be of interest as well, notably thinking of the Danish/German tunnel that is under construction. 2) Mind the different track gauges of Finland, the Baltic states and the rest of the area covered. Note that Sweden has standard gauge. 3) To me it seems unrealistic to shift cargo for the bulk of Europe from ship to rail near Kirkenes. You'd rather do that transfer in the Hamburg - Le Havre range.

@toms5996

Жыл бұрын

Are you mad? Russia is in WAR against Europe and Sweden and Finland will soon join NATO. We can talk about the logistics of the north in 50 years if ever.

@chrislaarman7532

Жыл бұрын

@@toms5996 Neither of us is mad, but I might be wrong about that.

@klapiroska4714

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. I don't think it's very easy to shift cargo to go through Kirkenes. The cargo operations would be mostly relying on the railway, and railways would introduce new transfers (which cost money). Truly trans European cargo line would also require building standard gauge tracks all the way from Tallinn to Rovaniemi as well, which is insanely expensive. However, if there is a major upgrade to the main line (such as new line), then it could be considered if the new line should have standard gauge. However, this comes with new challenges, as the new line would be intended for HS services, and running cargo on a dedicated HS-line... you get the point. Building tracks to mines in Sodankylä, even if it was a low speed single track line, could work. But, it's unclear if the mine is still there and operational when the railway would be complete.

@SeverityOne

Жыл бұрын

Rail Baltica is standard gauge, though. And now even plans have been touted to convert Ukraine's railway network to standard gauge (which is a very, very long way off), so my guess is that the Baltic states and even Finland at some point have to make the decision whether to stick to broad gauge, or gradually convert to standard gauge. (The Iberian peninsula faces the same question.)

@chrislaarman7532

Жыл бұрын

@@SeverityOne The European Commission has recently proposed that all railways convert to standard gauge. (I couldn't find the original proposal right away, though.) It's logical, but it's quite a project. I can see quite some exceptions, though: broad gauge (add Ireland!) is one thing, narrow gauge another (Germany, Greece, Austria, non-member Switzerland, maybe more). But it's not only track gauge, it's also the "loading gauge" (height and width), the safety and security (I mean ERTMS), coupling, likely more (but I don't consider different voltages a problem anymore). Creating a (more or less) unified European rail network is a huge project. And we'll need to do it while we're also building quite some locks in our major rivers to be ready to regulate the water levels (for consumption, industry and shipping) when (notably) the glaciers in the Alps will have melted and rain may come in bursts rather than showers. In fact, I wouldn't be surprized if short-sea shipping would take some cargo off the rails (and off barges) in the "near" future. (I don't have anything specific in mind, though.)

Two problems. 1. The cost of constructing a tunnel between Finland and Estonia. 2. The use of Russian territorial coastal waters to reach east Asia.

Let’s not forget the Swedish Malmbanan Luleå-Boden-Kiruna-Narvik and Haparandabanan Boden-Haparanda. The lines are both very technologically advanced because of the very heavy LKAB iron ore trains. It would be significantly easier if one worked with Sweden and instead focused on improving existing rail lines, together with a line to Kirkenes if demand really exceeds capacity.

@jatterhog

Жыл бұрын

I should add that there are already plans for double tracks along Malmbanan.

@justsomeguy5103

Жыл бұрын

A connection to the Swedish rail network would make the project a lot more feasible. That would allowl cargo trains to be funneled directly from Kirkenes into the Blue Banana via Øresund and possibly the Fehmarn link. It would require the arctic railway to use standard gauge (or dual gauge) and that the Rovaniemi-Tornio/Haparanda section be upgraded to dual gauge. Running everything through Finland depends heavily on the Rail Baltica project, and even then, it would be taking a detour through sparsely populated areas of Eastern Europe, as well as encountering at least one break of gauge along the way.

@VikingCoffie

Жыл бұрын

@@jatterhog Plans for double tracks Kiruna/Narvik has existed for, like 40-50 years, but it is not so easy. Difficult terrain and LKAB don't really need them. This means that someone else must take the cost and that's why they aren't build. In total, everyone needs double tracks, except LKAB who, de facto, kinda owns the tracks.

@erolaattori2317

Жыл бұрын

With the planned railway between Finland-Norway a connection would automatically be made to the Swedish railway network. Tough the dual gauge line would need to be modernized with the respective end stations for any serious increase in traffic.

@Jorgen888

Жыл бұрын

@@VikingCoffie They dont own the tracks, the state does :)

Very informative, thank you. But your map shows the city of Oulu in the wrong place. The town you label as 'Oulu' is Tornio, or possibly Kemi.

@klapiroska4714

Жыл бұрын

It's also missing the connection between Kouvola and Pieksämäki, and it has connection between Pieksämäki and Savonlinna (this no longer exists)

@fintux

Жыл бұрын

Indeed. Oulu is the next point to South on the map.

@KingLarbear

Жыл бұрын

Accidents happen

@mikaveekoo

Жыл бұрын

@@KingLarbear Or "who cares" happen. 😖

8:24 France and Poland have their own high sea ports. The benefits of the project for Central and Western Europe would be minimal. This is really something that needs to work for Finland and the Baltic states. And the North-East passage relies on Russian nautical support - not something that can be relied upon in the current climate.

@douglasengle2704

Жыл бұрын

"the North-East passage relies on Russian nautical support". That is the issue that stuck out to me.

@jaquigreenlees

Жыл бұрын

The NorthWest Passage would rely on both the US and Canada to support it's use, the problem is the lack of infrastructure along that route to provide the support.

@KuK137

Жыл бұрын

Finland could easily rely on Russian nautical support if it gave the boot to insane PM and remained friendly, neutral country it was for the last 70 years. Wanting to tear it all up to join club of bloody handed war criminals that invaded 10+ countries in last 25 years (and will most likely try to use Finland as proxy war against Russia like they did in Georgia and the Ukraine) is just insane. Especially seeing Finland already has rail link to proper, big port (Murmansk) and wanting to pay billions to swap it for small Norwegian fishing village is just stupid.

@jaquigreenlees

Жыл бұрын

@@KuK137 Yup, but Finland had that relationship from battles to take their lands back from Russian invasion. It was a detente between them to stop Finland from doing what it did in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Full information helps everyone, partial information only helps 1 side of a discussion.

@torokki

Жыл бұрын

@@KuK137 This friendly Russia, is it in the room with us right now?

No mention of the fact Finland uses a different track gauge?

@awuuwa

Жыл бұрын

if you mean different to norway, that won't matter much since the new rail could just use the finnish standard as most of it is in finland and it would not need to even connect to any norwegian railways according to this proposed plan 4:33

@geirmyrvagnes8718

Жыл бұрын

@@awuuwa The connection south from Helsinki will be on standard gauge, too.

@klapiroska4714

Жыл бұрын

​@@awuuwa Finland has a different track gauge than Norway, Sweden or Estonia. It's a deal breaker for building a freight line connecting Kirkenes with rest of Europe through Finland

@rowaystarco

Жыл бұрын

@@klapiroska4714 To be fair, Norway doesn't have any railroads far north. The gauge wouldn't matter that much. But there's no chance in hell that the current government would spend the money on this project. They barely kept the important "Ringeriks line".

@pluppiplopp155

Жыл бұрын

@@rowaystarco Though it would if a Normal Gauge would like to connect to the specific harbour

Do not forget that the Swedish lines are already conncted to mainland Europe via the Øresund bridge. With a branch line (Ofotbanen/Malmbanan) to the ice free port of Narvik, Norway. And - unless Finland and the Baltic states change gauges, the new arctic line with connecting trunk lines will be dual gauge or normal gauge only. The latter is not ideal. This really adds costs and complexity. Then, security issues. Finland will join NATO, that will guard the project against Russian expansion or threats. But if Russia turns into a new North Korea, the Northern passage will most likely be blocked. Reducing the value of the Kirkenes port.

@herrensaar1989

Жыл бұрын

Cant really block the entire artic ocean. Even though the russians would probably try and argue that they can. But blocking ships in international water, would instant cause trouble for russia getting through the danish straits.

@janhanchenmichelsen2627

Жыл бұрын

​@@herrensaar1989 As far as I know, major parts of the Northeast Passage are in Russian waters. Intl law does allow free passage, but sea routes in such remote and (still) treacherous areas must be supported by rescue & environmental services, towing capacity and so on. A rogue state can deny such services and harass shipping in other ways. Like GPS blocking, false accusations, arrests and so on. At least, insurance premium will skyrocket.

@olinamu

Жыл бұрын

a lline to norway would be good for mining products. anything else is at this point futile

@KuK137

Жыл бұрын

Nah, joining the nato by brainless, inept Finnish prime minister (who threw away decades of Finnish neutrality that made country rich by trading with Russia) will not "guard" anything, USA will just use Finland as next proxy war country to attack Russia, like they did in Georgia and the Ukraine already. Finland should kick the idiot out, tell nato the rabid aggressor war criminal club can get lost, and use already existing, very cheap link to Murmansk at tiny fraction of the price. Especially seeing Murmansk is proper big port and the Norwegian tiny fishing village can't process even tiny fraction of cargo Finland needs...

@KuK137

Жыл бұрын

@@herrensaar1989 Hey, Einstein, ever heard of ice? The only safe route through northwest passage leads through 3-4 Russian straits. Good luck trying to do the route without Russian icebreakers, ports, infrastructure, and safe passes, Russians will just laugh at Russophobic morons trying to do so and will say "no" when said ship will beg for rescue upon hitting ice or running out of fuel. Good way to lose not only cargo, but the ship and crew too...

Interesting. But the video didn't mention how the project would tackle the problem of different gauges in Finland and the rest of Europe.

@Yaratoma

Жыл бұрын

Tornio could be a transition hub and summerport

@juhajuntunen7866

Жыл бұрын

Its problem, shange train axles between Sweden and Finland.

@Yaratoma

Жыл бұрын

@@juhajuntunen7866 indeed, thus the hub. Tornio is connected by both Swedish and Finish lines already

Would be interesting to see the Swedish rail network on the same map. There is a high freight capacity line all the way north to Boden. Sounds far simpler to connect the Lapland lines there than to Helsinki and across all Baltic states. Also, just keeping the cargo on the ships until it reaches Hamburg, Antwerp and Rotterdam is cheaper. Shipping is always cheaper than rail.

@lubricustheslippery5028

Жыл бұрын

It's different distances between the wheels on Finish and Swedish trains. There is already train tracks from Haparanda (Close to Finland) to Narvik (Norwegian coast). It's plans to build double tracks between Kiruna and Narvik because all ore trains. Building high speed tracks between Umeå and Luleå have already started.

@T1hitsTheHighestNote

Жыл бұрын

The Norrbotniabanan will more than double the capacity through northern Norrland. Bottlenecks to the south will be fixed as well.

@lubricustheslippery5028

Жыл бұрын

@@T1hitsTheHighestNote Bottniabanan is only single track! It don't have the capacity to take the trains from the industry and fast passenger trains. Bridges and tunnels is hard to expand to fit another extra track. The difference between double and single track is something like x10 the amount of throughput of trains. They are planning to make the train track between Kiruna and Narvik double track so that says something on how bad it is that Bottniabanan only is single track. Stambanan is still there mostly for industry cargo but it's further inland where there is not as much going on and is also only single track. The new government have stopped many of the planned improvements of train tracks in the south of Sweden.

Instead of that it would perhaps make more sense to have a dual gauge railway from Tornio all the way to Helsinki. There is already Haaparanta - Narvik connection to the Arctic ocean.

@Sulticune

Жыл бұрын

This would be AMAZING, for tourism as well. I live in Kiruna, and the potential for that rail route specifically is colossal.

@mikapeltokorpi7671

Жыл бұрын

This still would not fix the reality that northern Norway railway is not connected to south. Not even trough Sweden. But this route will be part of the solution.

Finland and Norway can not be connected because rail gauges differ. Gauge in Finland is 1524mm.

Long time ago, I read something about a man who became pastor in Hattfjelldal in Norway in the late 1800s. He had big ideas about the railway, which at that time was not constructed yet, now going from Trondheim to Bodø, that it should be extended around the Botnia Bay to Finland and Russia, and further as land transport on railways to the far east.

In terms of delivery of social services and tourism the line is justified - cargo is a bonus. Rail trips from Sicily to Kirkenes would become a tourist thing all year round, especially summer

@Luredreier

Жыл бұрын

I doubt that itt would generate tourism that's not already comming in along other routes. Norway is a high cost country, anyone coming here is likely to already be prepared for a significant expense...

@peteregan3862

Жыл бұрын

@@Luredreier Europe's most northerly rail destination will have trains filled with passenger queuing up to use the track. They will need to park cruise ships in Kirkenes for hotels. Yes, Scandinavia is expensive, but a trip does not have to be expensive.

@peteregan3862

Жыл бұрын

@@OKuusava the mines are a tiny land use along the route. Environmental mgt is far better than in Russia. Can't see the country side from an aeroplane. Rail is safe, the weather in the north can change rapidly - it is not a place tourists from other countries should be driving around unless really experienced in the conditions. Cruise ship companies would organise Baltic-Artic cruises with a rail trip in between.

There already is a line from the baltic sea trough Kiruna and on to Narvik in Norway, and the only reason this railway exists is due to the massive iron mine in Kiruna shipping out iron ore. With Finland there is also the problem of railway gauge, they have a different one than Sweden for example.

@TheSaltyAdmiral

Жыл бұрын

As long as there is different gauges this problem will haunt us forever, so everyone should make an effort to convert to the standard gauge(Stephenson gauge) in the long run, and since Finland is the one who deviate from this it's their problem :) But unless this railroad is going to connect to their national grid it shouldn't be a problem to use the standard gauge up here. Worst case they will just have to install variable gauge systems on the border, and use trains that are dual gauge capable. They already do this on the existing railroads between Sweden and Finland, they also do this between Spain/France as far as I know. Just throw money at it and make it happen:)

@jakobrosenqvist4691

Жыл бұрын

@@TheSaltyAdmiral the only problem is finding enough money to throw at it.

Any of the project planners watching this video and reading the comments - I would love to come be a train driver there one day if this comes about. Greetings from South Africa 😁😁😁

Small correction to one of the images, Rail Baltica is planned to pass via Kaunas, not Vilnus, though Vilnus would be connected to the system through a short ride to Kaunas.

Thank you for the nice video.

Sodankylä means Wartown in finnish. It's near the "right hand" of Finland that the Russians cut off, near Murmansk, Moscow's critical nuclear submarine port.

Rail Baltica is to be standard gauge. Finland operates on the 1524 early Russian gauge (they are now at 1520). So Rail Baltica would terminate in Helsinki and not be connected to the Finland rail network. So no advantage to use Finalnd to transfer goods from a ship in Arctic to western europe. Sweden uses standard gauge and is connected to Dennmark which is connected to Germany. I am very curious on how Ukraine and Finland will decide on their rail gauge. (There had been plans to bring dusal gauge from polish border to Lviv and then maybe to Kyiv, but with the Russian invasion, I would hope all of Ukraine converts to standard gauge to make any future invasion much harder and make exports/imports to Europe easier. If the Tunnel to helsinki is built, it would also give it a reason to convert to standard gauge as it would not be conncted to Europe and not just to Russia.

@VideoDotGoogleDotCom

Жыл бұрын

The Helsinki-Tallinn tunnel will never be built. The population and the size of economy in Finland is just way too small. Also, the Finns don't have the money to change the gauge, nor is there any need to - railroads are easy to destroy, so it won't be an issue when the Russians decide to attack for the nth time.

@pontiuspilates

Жыл бұрын

@@VideoDotGoogleDotCom It will be, sooner or later. War in Ukraine was a huge push for the region to regroup and reform many things, but most importantly to shift the whole axis of infrastructure.

@VideoDotGoogleDotCom

Жыл бұрын

@@pontiuspilates Present us with numbers, please.

@pontiuspilates

Жыл бұрын

@@VideoDotGoogleDotCom what numbers? feasibility? I think at this point it's much more important politically and strategically, therefore all such studies are irrelevant. It has to be made out of political will, not out of flawed economical projections. The total population of Finland and Baltic Countries is close to 12 million people, I think it's more than enough to be ambitious and think about the future. On top of that, the geography is shifting, we are living on the verge of a big change in the world, due to climate change, geopolitics, changes in political philosophy and new conflicts.

There are 2 other routes, or will be by the time it's built via Sweden & Denmark to Germany, across the Swedish Danish Rail Bridge & down the Danish Jutland Peninsula & soon across the Fehmarn gap. Interestingly the Fehmarn Concrete Tube Plant could make tubes for the future Helsinki-Talin Crossing, then a Southern Gulf of Bothnia Crossing near Stockholm & later Central Bothnia Crossing, not to mention creating the Danish Swedish Ring Road with a Northern Jutland Crossing at Fredirjshaven to Gothenburg.

The main good part of this project would be getting Lapland much mire environmentaly friendly and easier to access by the rest of Finland. I understand the Sami for not wanting it. But it would make the region less car dependent as well. As all of a sudden it would be easier and cheaper to transport anything in Lapland

Kirkenes! My home town :D

Just from a finnish perspective this is not going to happen. They can barely get a helsinki-turku-tampere rail triangle to work, and the rest of the system is whatever in most of the country too. More rails would be great, but they always seem to go bad over here.

The largest container ships carry over 20,000 TEUs, or over 10,000 regular (40 foot) containers. When not using double stacking, that would mean a single ship's capacity equals a train with TEN THOUSAND railroad cars. A single ship. It's better to ship straight to (and preferably FROM) e.g. Rotterdam than to have an endless fleet of trains pass through the Nordic countries.

Hmm... I live right next to the main north-south line, and they are opening a lithium mine near and are processing it locally. It is estimated to be a whopping 5% of global lithium hydroxide production. This rail line would give two export routes, we have a deep harbor already right next to the processing plant but rails.. could be very useful indeed.

The spot where you situated Oulu is called Tornio

I think the best idea for such a project would be to give Finland a virtual port on the Atlantic Ocean in Norway connected to Finland by rail. The problem is that we have to use the R-word. Russia. One of the tools Russia uses when waging war against its neighbours is by using railways for logistics and any country bordering Russia with a Russian or Soviet gauge railway within its borders is vulnerable. Finnish track gauge (1524mm) is only 4mm different to Soviet gauge (1520mm) and in a war would be usable by the Russians. So any international railway must be standard gauge (1435mm ONLY). Sweden and Norway should flat out refuse to build or allow the construction of Soviet/Finnish gauge railways on their territory under any circumstances. A Kirkenes line would also run too close to Russia to be geopolitically safe.

This would benefit Finland and Baltic countries very very much.

Nice video.

@RailwaysExplained

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

What about the difference in the width of the railroad tracks?

The map at 7:56 mislabels Tornio as Oulu. The real Oulu is the next city to the north.

@casbeenders646

Жыл бұрын

South*

There is little incentives for such railways and sea port in north of Norway. The only interested counties would be Sweden and Finland. The rest of Europe would continue with sea transport up to their own sea ports in shores of the North Sea or the Baltic, as the sea is the cheapest mean of transport than railway or road.

So the north is mostly Sami and are opposed to the railway expansion, in their area, and complain about the limited infrastructure like rail in the north. Sounds like the are conflicted.

@larrywave

Жыл бұрын

They always are

Seeing that the current Labour government tried to cancel the short but important "Ringeriksline", I doubt they'll ever care about this major arctic railroad. Luckily a broad group in parliament stopped them, but funding is still lacking.

Do you have any sources on the claim that the arctic railway project is being revived in FInland? The proposed new regional land use plan of Northern Lapland, which included the railway connection to Kirkenes, was rejected by the Regional Council of Lapland in 2021 because of the railway connection. The council is just now starting to work on the plan once again without the railway and there has been 0 talk about reviving the project, as it doesn't have the political support of the council. However, the connection between cities of Tornio and Haparanda is finally being electrified, enabling the connection from Northern Finland to Narvik. In practice though, large scale transportation of cargo between Narvik and Finland would require Norway to expand the port in Narvik.

Oluo/Tornio with connections to Tromsø and Kirkenes would make for a really cool city

Will that railway use 4' 81/2" (1435mm)like the rest of Europe ( excluding Russia, etc...) or the current 1524 used in Finland?

@FlorianzumBaum

Жыл бұрын

considering Rail Baltica also goes european standart, my guess would be standart gauge like central europe, it's a long term goal of the EU to standardize this rail tracks inside the EU, such a project would also need a lot of financial help from the EU, so I don't think that would be such a big problem and could set the start of standardizing rail systems in finnland, like Rail Baltica

@tomppeli.

Жыл бұрын

@@FlorianzumBaum Honestly, considering how underutilized the Finnish rail system is, trying to convince people to change the gauge will be a monumental task. That is not to mention the actual changing of the gauge. Personally, I'd be all-in for changing the gauge to a European standard, but that will also hinder any future rail freight trade between Finland and Russia, a major source of trade for Finland. Something which probably couldn't be replaced with clients in the EU anytime soon.

There will be another problem: track gauge: the finns using russian broad-gauge… question is the use of multi-gauge-tracks or simple re-loading containers…

I am from Kirkenes and i am totaly support railway project. Here is my reasons: 1. Transportation in Northern Norway is abysmal and expencive. If you want to travel from Oslo to Kirkenes or vice versa the cost for a plane ticket is from 200-300 euros. Choosing boat travel is even more expensive. We have a lot of turist in Kirkenes from all over the world and due tue Norway is the last coutry in Europe that didn't closed border with Russia, many Russian uses Kirkenes airport to travel further. Wich is also inflating prices for transportation. Other transport routs could deflate prices for transportation and goods. 2. Kirkenes economy before war in Ukraine was centered around russian fishing ships + many russians came here to buy norwegian products. But after the war start and sanctions, Kirkenes was hit HARD. Many people lost thier jobs. 500 people from the local ship repair company lost their jobs. For town like Kirkenes (Kirkenes population is 3,500) this is massive. Many people leave Kirkenes. But a railway could be a game changer. It will bring more investment and development into my home town.

Would the railway be in the Finnish railway cauge or the norwegian one?

Well, especially with regard to Russia it is out of question to build such a vital like within sight of the Russian border... So it should be Kolari-Tromso line instead... Plus there is still the gauge problem - even if Rail Baltica is built, it will be 1435mm.

They could provide some under- and overpasses for the reindeers. This way they might be "out of sight" for the deers and for the people.

Rail freight is currently not fast anywhere, around 40km/h or less.

You forgot to mention the mess of Gauges this would create. The Norwegian and Swedish network are standard gauge, the Finnish is broad gauge. The baltic state´s systems are broad gauge, but Rail Baltica is planed with standard gauge track to better connect the baltic states into the european union´s rail network via Poland. If they build the tunnel between Finnland and Estonia, they will connect 2 broad gauge systems, but not to Rail Baltica. Ultimate solution would be if the European Union will pay the baltic states plus Finnland to change their whole networks to standard gauge, then everything would be really interconnected and RIV freight cars can run from Kirkenes to Sicily or Greece without any issue. Even without the tunnel to Estonia, the line could be connected to the swedish networn in Tornio and reach central and souther europe through Sweden, Denmark and Germany.

@michaellaudahn

Жыл бұрын

'If they build the tunnel between Finnland and Estonia, they will connect 2 broad gauge systems, but not to Rail Baltica': Are you suggesting that the FinEst tunnel will be built in russian broad gauge? From whatever you find on this project, you can see that it is designed as an extension of standard-gauge Rail Baltica (thus not a mere connection of the two russian broadgauge networks of Estonia and Finland), and will thus be in standard gauge - up to Helsinki airport, to start with.

@denzzlinga

Жыл бұрын

@@michaellaudahn so the break of gauge will be in Helsinki? Doesen´t help much.

@michaellaudahn

Жыл бұрын

That would help getting european trains from countries south of Finland to the capital and its airport; and the same is true for the opposite direction. Not too bad for a start, compared to the present situation. And of course, if the SG line then is extended further north, the benefits just grow.

7:28 when did Oulu move there?

I really like that you guys show a light at a very underdeveloped area of railways (northern Scandinavia) but by only mentioning the kirkenes route you guys didn’t show the potential of the other route; as with the haparanda and svapavaara line maybe upgraded/expanded and the possibility of the western line from kolari to tromsø actually being a better option with considerations on defense

@herrensaar1989

Жыл бұрын

The scope of this route is, to link Finland better together internally, which this video sadly doesn't talk much about. Extending the route further to Kirkenes, is unlikely to happen, unless norway pays for that half of the project. Which would be unlikely, since as you mention, there are better options within Norway or Sweden, if connecting Kirkenes better is the goal.

@BubblesBub434

Жыл бұрын

Agree with this except for your final point (with considerations on defense); actually a railway link to Kirkenes would be better from military perspective as that is where the front line would be. Norway anywhere northeast of Tromso as well as northern Finland anywhere north of Rovaniemi and west of Kolari would not be covered by a railway line to Tromso. Though it is questionable whether any railway in northern scandinavia would be operational for any amount of time in case war breaks out; huge distances of rail that cannot be repaired quickly in case of damage, but that's another discussion. Economically, it might make sense to build a railway as far as Sodankyla/Kevitsa, mainly for mining purposes but also tourism. That would also be a domestically politically interesting move as it would correct for years of relative infrastructure underinvestment in that area of Finland, and might help tamper negative regional sentiments towards the capital region. But I'm with you that a far more potent economic benefit could come from a line to Tromso or, especially, an upgrading of the lines through northern Sweden (Kemi-Haparanda, Kalix-Lulea-Skelleftea-Umea, double track Boden-Narvik; or maybe a new line Kiruna-Kolari(-Rovaniemi))

How does the cost compared to the huge road infrastructure projects built in the region that maybe never pay for themselves?

Thawing permafrost is the biggest challenge and not mentioned other than challenges will be encountered. The Chinese ran into this issue and the construction costs were very high with no guarantee of success.

@CestLimee

Жыл бұрын

There’s actually not permafrost that many places in this area, and Norwegian and Finnish authorities know what to do about it, there are experts in the fieldin both countries. The traditional reindeer herding routes in the area is a way larger issue. The sami people do not want trainlines cutting off their routes or hitting the reindeer, and will take every legal action to delay or stop the project.

It's funny to see every Swede here become an expert in what they should do with this project :D Feeling left out much? I'm sure the experts know way more about this than you do.

Map is totally wrong. Murmansk route was cancelled already almost year ago after public uproar. Then it was found that tunneling in competing routes, especially in Norwegian fjords was estimated way too high. Some government knuckleheads proposed to choose East route to Murmasnsk, but now the only viable route is trough Sweden and Norway: ref. Russia. Also North-East passage will have only Russian ships as per Russian policy. There is TEN qualifying road from Finland to Norway, too. If anything become relevant again due Russia-Ukraine war, is that this will be built between Tornio and Kirkkenes.

How to support rail beds on melting tundra??

@lowercherty

Жыл бұрын

Most of that line to Kirkenes is rock or glacial soil with very little cover. Roads certainly aren't a problem.

I don't know how the problem with the sami people and their concerns can be solved, but a rail link like this would really be 'revolutionary'. Not least because it would be a game-changer in matters of rail gauge even in Finland: If the future spur line from Rail Baltica in Estonia (through the tunnel to be built) to Helsinki airport comes in standard gauge 1.44 m (as can be expected), and given that Sweden and Norway use standard gauge, it would make little sense to build this new link in traditional russian broad gauge, just because Finland so far has used it. This would then mean, both gauges are inside the country - to coexist, for the time being. Then let's see if pressure builds to adapt more of the network to standard gauge, for increased interoperability...

@onelyone6976

Жыл бұрын

This line would mostly serve Finland, and to make it easier to transport goods from Kirkenes down to mid to southern Finland it's best to build it using Finnish standard broad gauge (1524mm)

@michaellaudahn

Жыл бұрын

This is clearly a contentious issue, also in Finland itself. Not least in the interest of european harmonisation, I would opt for the gradual conversion to standard gauge of those parts of the finnish rail network where the advantages of such an investment outweigh the disadvantages. Clearly a link from Helsinki (as a continuation of the FinEst tunnel - extension of standard-gauge Rail Baltica) via Oulo (close to swedish border) to Kirkenes/Norway would be the #1 candidate. And the challenges posed by two different-gauge networks inside the same country can be mastered, as Spain shows quite convincingly - even more so if it is a transitional (although spanning decades) situation.

@onelyone6976

Жыл бұрын

@@michaellaudahn I'm probably biased since I'm Finnish, but really the main focus should not be to convert to standard European gauge, but to actually upgrade the current infrastructure. A lot of the track outside the mainline is in very bad shape and the mainline itself should be upgraded to double-track, which it currently is not outside of a few places where trains have to wait for others to pass.

@michaellaudahn

Жыл бұрын

These problems would best be solved, and in a future-proof way, by a new electrified double-track line in standard gauge

@arcticradio

Жыл бұрын

The concerns of the Sami people…..they like myself never want the lands here ruined by a railway that in no way benefits the communities it will destroy……We will fight it always - No to the Arctic Railway

There are already too many reindeers. Reindeer population is way over what it should.

One clearly wrong fact, Anne Berner was minister, but forced to resign some political fuckups. Also it was 2015-2019 Juha Sipilä goverment. Todays minister of transport and information is Timo Harakka(social democratic party).

4:45 That route is a non option for Norway. We don't want a railway that close to Russia for security reasons. Essentially it makes sense for us to *intentionally* keep the infrastructure there limited. If they want Norwegian support I suggest picking a more western route.

Japan would be the most important benefiter. And the new port could only be used for 3 months of the year. So how important are these rare earths?

@eljanrimsa5843

Жыл бұрын

Rare earths are necessary for building the device through which you are reading this. 3 months of the year now may well become become 6 months until the project is finished and 12 months by the end of the century, depending on how fast temperatures rise and how fast the arctic ice melts. Withing rising temperatures arctic routes from North America to Europe may open up as well.

If they have a million passengers a year or more, sounds ok. Not sure how to calculate rail frieght as I've never freighted anything by rail other than me, as a passenger, but seems like an ok idea.

@juhajuntunen7866

Жыл бұрын

Not enough passangers, mainly tourists.

@eljanrimsa5843

Жыл бұрын

Passengers won't be a significant factor. It will be a transport corridor for the growing amount of goods which is expected to rise as new sea routes become economically feasible.

@VideoDotGoogleDotCom

Жыл бұрын

@@eljanrimsa5843 Why would anyone invest in a sea route that hugs the territorial waters of a terrorist state for thousands of kms?

Finland is a 'dead end' if you are unloading cargo in Norway. You have to get goods for the rest of Europe over the Baltic so add in another loading and shipping/unloading exercise and then run from Estonia or Sweden, or simply by-pass most of Finland and go via Sweden. The cargo ship could more easily run down to Rotterdam at likely lower cost. As for a tunnel, a stupendous waste of money, the Channel Tunnel is a failure monopoly and Finland has a relatively small population and economy.

I'm surprised that their *isn't* already an existing line from Baltic Finland to the Arctic! With Finland joining NATO, expect construction to begin in t- 10, 9, 8....

I wonder what would be the new Artic railway track guage?. The Finnish railways use the "Russian guage". Norway uses the standard guage. Plus different voltages, Finland, 25kc AC and Norway 15kv AC. Although different voltages is not much of a hindrance as many electric locomotives in Europe can take different voltages. Plus the new Baltica railway use the standard Guage.

@madsbuhris

Жыл бұрын

Finnish railway gauge is not same as russian gauge.

@ctwentysevenj6531

Жыл бұрын

@@madsbuhris Just reading about the Finnish railways and they seem to have the 1524mm or 5ft Guage the same used in the countries that made up the ex USSR like Moldova, the Baltic states( Although they are starting to build the Baltica railways based on the Standard Guage, Ukraine etc . I assume that Finland has the 1524 mm as it was part of the Russian Empire until 1918. Finland does have a railway connection with Russia and the Finns use a fast train to St. Petersburg.

@madsbuhris

Жыл бұрын

@@ctwentysevenj6531 yes and russian have the 1520 gauge.

@ctwentysevenj6531

Жыл бұрын

@@madsbuhris Ok. It's like the Iberian guage and the Indian guage , the widest guage. There is a very minor difference, however trains compatible on the two guages.

The video got a new twist now after they found a huge deposit of rare earth elements in Sweden. :D

Great video! But I don‘t understand the rationales: 1. First you mentioned the war in Ukraine, but how would a new port and railway next to Russia's border be safe? How would a northern sailing path to Asia along the Russian northern coast be safe? 2. Apart from direct shipment from eastern or northern Europe to Asia, adding a 2000 km railway journey from central or western Europe would not make much economic sense.

@EnjoyFirefighting

Жыл бұрын

1. Norway and Finland have strong military partners behind them which serve as protection which Russia shouldn't mess with 2. not necessarily to transport freight from e.g. central Europe all the way up there, but rather for local industries and customers to send and receive cargo to and from Asia and at the same time being able to send and receive cargo to and from central Europe as well.

@VideoDotGoogleDotCom

Жыл бұрын

@@EnjoyFirefighting 1. That's like showing off your money when walking alone in a gang area, because you know your brothers and cousins and friends will come help you if you call them. Why take such a risk? 2. There is very little industry in the area to justify such a huge project. Finland doesn't even have the means to repair its current infrastructure.

This will be made redundant by the Fehmarn Belt fixed link and the already existing Øresund Bridge.

The last 12 miles from Bjonevaten to Kirkenes are done. Finland uses a different guage.

Thanks for the video. I defo think there should be more investment in infrastructure in the Arctic. Lets hope this project becomes reality. Keep it up👍

This project is an extremely good idea especially if it will be all joined up.A useful link would be a connection between Tromso and Bodo,and it would seem advantageous for it to all be laid to standard guage dimensions.

@peersvensson9253

Жыл бұрын

Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania all use Russian gauge (1524 / 1520 mm). I'm surprised this wasn't mentioned in the video.

@DavidWilson-hh2gn

Жыл бұрын

@@peersvensson9253 I do realize the matter of gauge is a problem but if Finland wants to link into the Scandinavian networks and south into the other European networks it will need to adopt standard gauge for those links.

@Yaratoma

Жыл бұрын

The connection between Tromsø and Bodø is a bit of a pickle since the mountains above Fauske is really difficult to traverse. Probably a rail network could be formed around Narvik up to Tromsø and then be connected down to Tornio but everything from Narvik goes through Sweden at the moment.

This will be great

Pump or dig it all up and burn it friends. Life on this silly rock in space has gone on long enough and high time we snuff it out once and for all.

I don’t see the point of this. There is already a railway line from the port of Norwegian Narvik to central Europe with same gauge all the way. This line has been there since 2000 when the Öresund bridge was constructed. It has not been used much in this way, I don’t know why. There are some capacity problems, but sure cheaper than building new.

It was and is lacking a use case. There is no market for passenger traffic. Too few tourists and locals will take the plane, not a train to the south. The time difference is simply too vast. The North Bothnia line through Sweden would make trips near Luleå, Sweden has also "stealth reopened" Luleå-Haparanda, mere kilometers from FInnish change-of-guage Tornio. Helsinki (FI) - Kiruna (SE) - Narvik (NO) is an option for the intrepid tourist, though it does currently involve walking or local bus from Tornio railway station to Haparanda railway station, For goods railway, which goods? Norwegian fossil gas does not have a future. The only customer is the EU, and they will stop buying. LNG will not be competitive (and transported by sea, not rail). Finnish mining, perhaps, but better harbour in Kirkenes than in Helsinki, Stockholm (or by above detour Narvik)? Arctic Belt and Road, fine, but assuming there eventually will be, why seek port in Kirkenes rather than Narvik, or better yet Rotterdam?

Huge fan of rail, but as an equal fan of nature I think this is a bad idea. Too many issues with the Sami's use of reindeer, not at least to say the current situation with Russia

the oil can stay in the ground. thanks

Norway will never gonna build railway to Finland. The excuse is that Finland does not use same width of the track used in Norway even it would not connect with existing railway in Norway as Jens Stoltenberg stated already in 2012 I think it was, when he was Prime minister

@jtkfox4717

Жыл бұрын

@tele_gramRailwaysExplained A BIG or a small gift. :D

This project is really exciting, but your analysis about using the NEP is the weakest part of this video also because of the Russian war in Ukraine. NEP, or traditionally in Russian Nothern Sea route (Северный морской путь) is now fully administrated and controlled by Russian Federation. This country is trying to develop this route for some years (the goal is perennial operation and 80 mn tons of transit goods every year), but it is on the very initial position. Not only because of the extremely hard climate of the region, but also because of really high self cost of transit (now transit costs for goods in NEP is an order of magnitude more expensive than by the traditional Suez route). Also time what you said about (from mid-Aug to mid-November) is already wider and realistically can be perennial (because Russians have one very important and unique thing for that - a fleet of nuclear ice-breaking ships), but for that two main thing are necessary: 1) about 6 nuclear ships more; 2) peace in Europe and cooperation with Russia. Unfortunately without those there is no any possibility to use NEP for free and worldwide transit of cargo.

@lucem.glorifico

Жыл бұрын

@Li Heli if you look at the Globe and then at my comment, you can see that I was discussing about North-Eastern Passage, what the author of this video told about (it's the passage along Russian cost), not about North-Western passage along Canadian coast. Moreover, now (and long time after) TWP is not a variant (bcos Canada, US and Greenland do't have any infrastructure on the route at all.

It's not going to happen due to vulnerable nature, powerful local communities, the port's proximity to Russia and huge cost to build.

@user-gp8lc9sh3j

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, its a difficult project, but it wouldnt be impossible, as we already have made the track to Kemijärvi, where it would be easy to continue the track to north. Also the Salla railway is still in a relatively good shape, although it would need a complete renovation.

@tknode3065

Жыл бұрын

Probably won't happen, The reindeer herding sapmi families oppose everything of value in the north but at the same time wonder why young people move away from the north. Even if you wanted to start reindeer herding yourself, the other reindeer herders would poach or steal your animals. If a finnish or norwegian "skolt" wants to use their right to start reindeer herding, the other reindeer owning sami will do everything in their power to destroy this persons livelihood.

@EgnachHelton

Жыл бұрын

Proximity to Russia only further warrant such a route though. In case of Russian military aggression in this area, such a transport route is very valuable in supplying military operations in the area.

@turkeytrac1

Жыл бұрын

Really? They spent more on one of many oilsands plants in my province of Alberta roughly 3 billion euros many years ago. Building this railway is far easier

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

And maybe the fact that it relies on accessing arctic fossil fuel fields.

We already have railways connecting Europe and East Asia, with almost no traffic compared to ocean-borne freight because railways are way too expensive at that distance unless it's something that has a really high time-order preference. But hey tell Russia to build it, let them waste some more of their money.

The snag here is the Finnish railway isn’t compatible with the rest of Europe, only with the enemy Russia. way better to build the railway trough Sweden, a nation that share the rail width with the rest of Europe.

he said valorization, Michael Jimenez would be proud.

When I get rich I will build the train to Tromsø

Yeah, burning all those new reserves will destroy the Arctic. Good move.

Transport by ship is by far the cheapest method available. How will adding 2000km rail in between yourself and the harbor make that better?

@EnjoyFirefighting

Жыл бұрын

because otherwise the ships would have way longer route; The track from Kiruna to Narvik is pretty much at its full capacity; Thus ships from Finland and the Swedish east coast would have to go all the way down through the Baltic Sea and go all the way up around Denmark to reach the North Sea ... that's a trip of additional 2 days

@DarkNexarius

Жыл бұрын

@@EnjoyFirefighting Ships regularly go from asia to europe and need a month. Who cares about 2 days? Those aren't passenger ships.

@EnjoyFirefighting

Жыл бұрын

@@DarkNexarius because it's a rather short to medium distance which can be covered by both trains and trucks way quicker, which pays off for all the companies in the business ...

Based of real policies and the actual world. That railway has already been reduced to irrelevance. I mean it will be cute and highly used, but dead in all practical purposes.

How much more expensive is it to put the railway underneath where the grazing for the reindeer are is this a possible fix

An absolute no to the Arctic railway. Would go straight across the lands of the Sámi, the only indigenous group in EU. The Sámi community has announced multiple times that a railroad would massively disturb for example reindeer herding and their natural movement patterns, thus "killing" a major part of local Sámi culture and lifestyle.

Pričaš engleski sa srpskim akcentom. Odakle si?

@RailwaysExplained

Жыл бұрын

Iz Srbije smo 😁

@petarswift5089

Жыл бұрын

@@RailwaysExplained Svaka čast za kanal. Odličan je i samo napred. Dobili ste pretplanika 😃

Please make the Intro louder

Can't have the Artic railway without Russia's participation. As it's a major Europe-Asia-Middle East railway hub.

Being North of the arctic circle in Scandinavia doesnt mean that you are on an arctic region!

Loss of permafrost will keep destroying the rail.

@osteoclast6884

Жыл бұрын

There's no permafrost in that area

We don't need more oil or gas!

@seanC3i

Жыл бұрын

I like to read about the Middle Ages in textbooks, I don't want to live in them.

@LadyZeldaia

Жыл бұрын

@@seanC3i ah right, forgot medival europe ended when we found oil

@seanC3i

Жыл бұрын

@@LadyZeldaia The industrial revolution was powered by coal and now oil and gas have replaced it to a large extent. But you can't have modern/industrial civilisation without lots of energy. That is a fact. We could use nuclear energy, but that option seems to be "problematic" according to some.

@LadyZeldaia

Жыл бұрын

@@seanC3i the industrial revelution (which was after the rennisance) first started with being powered by water actually, waterwheels powered the factories

@seanC3i

Жыл бұрын

@@LadyZeldaia According to Wikipedia the Industrial Revolution started in 1760, which stands to reason as water wheels only produce a limited amount of energy. Modern society has depended on fossil fuels entirely since that time. Maybe we could substitute nuclear energy for electricity, electric cars, electric trains, electric heating, factories and so on, but even that would be a Herculean challenge. There's no question that the renaissance was a turning point for the better, but it wasn't decisive on its own.

Probably the saddest infrastructure project, due to the reason for its feasibility

Yay! Lets screw the environment even more...

The polar express will be real lmao

Thanks for the video, I appreciate the work that you've put into it. Interesting subject and well done graphics/photography/illustrations. My one critique is the narration took a lot of effort for me to understand with the accent affecting the pronunciation. I respect you speak more than a single language, and commend you for knowing English in addition to your first language. Not throwing shade at tall, just hoping that your channel grows to the point you can afford a narrator.

Whole project killed earlier this year by the Fin Mim of Transport. Too expensive, unviable.

Of course, it will be difficult as long as Putin is determined to be a real world Sauron.

!

*World* trade? Hardly! By all means let Finland have their railway but it’s a small and rather insignificant country so the mere thought of suggesting this would have an impact on world trade is absurd, bordering childish.