It should be noted that since my shooting of this there have been additional allegations against Clarke which include his time actually on Doctor Who and Doctor Who related press events: www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/may/07/noel-clarke-accused-of-sexual-harassment-on-doctor-who-set

@anoctoberdaybreak3365

3 жыл бұрын

Russell T Davies comment on NOT knowing John Barrowman's behaviour on set has me baffled. We KNOW he knew. I... just... don't want to believe the worse about that era of the show but him lying doesn't exactly install me with confidence.

@GrilloTheFlightless

3 жыл бұрын

@@anoctoberdaybreak3365 He must have known. It was even referenced in a comedy song performed by Barrowman, Tenant and Tate in RTDs honour, filmed for the wrap party and even included as an Easter egg on the season 4 DVD.

@chrispalmer7893

3 жыл бұрын

@@GrilloTheFlightless It's possible RTD thought people were joking about it, or that they were referencing an isolated incident and he was unaware of just how often Barrowman did it. As I understand it RTD wasn't one of those producers who was on set all that often. Could also have been lying / have forgotten about because it didn't seem a big deal at the time (which would be a fairly damning indictment of the way he runs a show, or at least how he ran it back in the day). Can't believe that he knew anything about Clarke, though. If nothing else, it would have just been too risky to keep bringing him back; it's not like Mickey was a character they couldn't live without.

@marshsundeen

3 жыл бұрын

I guess I am old enough that I believe people can change and grow. John Barrowman may have learned not to behave that way, and will not do it again. I lived through a time where school and work behavior was a lot worse than anything Barrowman has done. Clarke is a bigger issue. He has too many accusers to ignore.

@GrilloTheFlightless

3 жыл бұрын

@@chrispalmer7893 further to this, I’ve just been poking around old news articles and Barrowman was actually given an official reprimand for flashing on the set of Torchwood in 2008 and Julie Gardner later commented that as far as she was aware he hadn’t done it since. Given that RTD, along with Gardner, was one of the exec producers of the show I find it highly unlikely that he wasn’t aware of the reprimand, or the reason for it. But, from what I’ve heard, Eve Miles has commented on how she would also expose parts of herself for a laugh on set, so it seems like it’s all part of high-spirited pranks rather than anything sinister. And for eagle-eyed fans JBs penis actually appears on screen for a split second in an episode of Children Of The Earth. Jack’s completely destroyed body is rebuilding itself slowly in a prison cell whilst his captors watch on CCTV. As his body is virtually completely healed Jack can be seen on the prison monitor screaming in pain with his penis fully exposed. Only for a second. But it’s there, deliberately, and unhidden.

It sounds like a lot of people need to remember what they learned in Kindergarten. Keep your clothes on and don’t touch people without their permission.

@kaleshabastion2332

3 жыл бұрын

To stop touching someone if they ask you to stop it is another lesson I recall that seems to also get forgotten. Once you've finished school you should get another year of kindergarten to remind you how to be a nice person.

@suzannebudlong8376

3 жыл бұрын

@@kaleshabastion2332 sad isn’t it. It’s not that difficult to behave decently. My 11 year old tells people off when they touch her hair (happens every day), then gets labelled as “aggressive” for enforcing her boundaries.

@MrsMelrom

3 жыл бұрын

@@suzannebudlong8376 props to her, her body, her choice

@suzannebudlong8376

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrsMelrom yup. She has to deal with racist micro-aggressions on a daily basis, and I’m super proud of her for standing up for herself.

@Ro-po2ej

3 жыл бұрын

I remember even though I kept my clothes on I had a random habit of poking people until two years ago so if I’m being honest that’s pretty true

What’s so disturbing about that video isn’t the alleged behaviour of Barrowman, massively inappropriate though it is. It’s that Clarke correctly identifies it as something that made people momentarily uncomfortable, and decides to bring it up and in a really drawn-out way re-enact it with his mic, getting off on making Camille Coduri and Annette Badland as uncomfortable as possible, for as long as possible, getting in their personal space with his metaphorical knob, resting it on their shoulders, knowing they have to remain professional in front of the live audience and therefore just sit and take it. It’s two women - both brilliant and respected actresses - cringing their way through a kind of simulated minor sexual assault in front of a live audience, by a man that clearly is revelling in their momentary powerlessness. That’s why it’s such a telling clip.

@ian1585

3 жыл бұрын

But if John had told the story and did the same thing that noel did with the mic, you wouldn't have viewed it the same way?

@irondragonmaiden

3 жыл бұрын

@@ian1585 Barrowman wouldn't have pontificated about how it was wrong, he'd legitimately think the act was funny. Clarke was someone who at least knew the act was going to make the actresses with him uncomfortable on a power-trip. Context matters. The former is someone who would take you seriously if you told him that you didn't find it funny and were, in fact, uncomfortable. He kept on doing it because the atmosphere in Torchwood was that the actors felt comfortable enough to make fratboy house sex jokes and that included flashing people, to the point that the other actors looked at guest stars like James Marsters oddly for thinking that it was assault because the main actors were all in on the joke. It's obnoxious, sometimes, being around these guys if you're not into this sort of humor/close enough to them to like mooning, but generally the people who do that back off if you tell them that you don't like it. The latter? The latter isn't someone who legitimately thinks the other party is in on the joke and laughing. The latter is someone who KNOWS the other party is uncomfortable and keeps on doing it.

@2010DanaA

3 жыл бұрын

@@ian1585 John probably wouldn’t have whined that the other guy got away with it because of his sexual orientation. No, John got away with it because he was making a stupid joke...whereas Noel evidently was trying to feel women up and probably pressure them into more.

@Anna133199

3 жыл бұрын

You're seeing way too much in that clip. He thought Barrowmans behaviour on set was just one of those funny behind the scenes stories, wanted to make the audience laugh, and that's probably it. Where did you get the idea from that he was 'clearly revelling in their momentary powerlessness'? Sounds like a reach to me.

@ramonegues5689

3 жыл бұрын

@@Anna133199 this He mentioned it as a joke on a convention years ago before the accusations, not as a way to bring someone down with him.

Noel Clarke also had those weird “I would be open to the conversation about becoming the Doctor” interviews. The issues are different because Barrowman wasn’t using his power to get vulnerable people to do sexual favors for him.

@chrispalmer7893

3 жыл бұрын

That's a big difference - Clarke is abusing power, and the context is explicitly sexual. Perhaps more significantly, Barrowman appears to have owned up to what he did and - and this is what really matters - changed his behaviour after he was spoken to about it. Should he have known better? Absolutely. Barrowman can, I think, be redeemed. Clarke has already admitted to more than enough to end his career where it stands.

@mpdalyful1

3 жыл бұрын

Had they attempted to fire Clarke he would have screamed racial discrimination and the BBC would have been before equality authority for racial discrimination. So there was nothing they could do. Its very hard call if you watch TV shows like Dr who and years later stuff in the press comes out a person who don't know personally and have never met. But re Barrownan I will Say I can see why moffat would not have him back and why ecclestone left.

@chrispalmer7893

3 жыл бұрын

@@mpdalyful1 As what is happening to Clarke now demonstrates, even if he had tried to play the race card it would not have saved him from the consequences of his actions had his behaviour while filming Doctor Who been reported at the time. Barrowman's behaviour was open and notorious, Clarke's misconduct was of a very different character. Contrary to popular belief it is not as simple as just shouting "racial discrimination" and everyone immediately runs away scared. It is not a Get Out Jail Free Card. And it has to be said that the rare occasions when the person in the minority group does get unfair benefit from sensitivities like this are vastly outnumbered by the occasions when the prejudice cuts against them.

@chrispalmer7893

2 жыл бұрын

@@obiwankenobi687 “Everyone” did not find Barrowman’s activities funny. He made some people uncomfortable at work in a way that no one should have to - and complaints were made at the time. That’s why Barrowman was spoken to at the time. Barrowman himself doesn’t deny that he did wrong, his defence is that he stopped when he was told to. Clarke suffered very similar consequences to Barrowman. Just because he saw the writing on the wall and “voluntarily” stepped away from what he was working on doesn’t make it any better for him in the end (and not everything was voluntary, the likes of Sky made it clear they wouldn’t work with him anymore). The lack of prosecution is sadly unsurprising, and the reasons for it are rooted in both the reality that these kinds of offences are by their nature difficult to prove to the necessary standard and the Crown Prosecution Service’s unwillingness to proceed where there is the possibility of failure. Now, if he regains the contracts he lost when the allegations came to light, if he starts working again, maybe you’ll have a point, but right now there’s no sign of that and no reason at all to think people will want to take that risk (the PR of it would be terrible, and the potential liability for civil claims, where the standard of proof is lower, will be quite a deterrent). Clarke’s behaviour was far worse than Barrowman’s. That doesn’t make what Barrowman did OK. Right now It still looks possible that John will get back some of the career he had before all of this. His name will be tainted, but by his own actions so my sympathy is limited. Clarke still appears to have no way back of any kind - and the same applies. No sympathy there either.

@chrispalmer7893

2 жыл бұрын

@@obiwankenobi687 If you or I did what he did at work we’d be fired. And rightly so. It doesn’t become an injustice because the reaction was delayed. With the higher profile position you get benefits and risks. He benefited from public glory for years, I’ve no problem with him suffering public disgrace for his actions.

Strange thing is that Barrowman’s actions have always been spoken of in a ‘Hey, funny story, John flashed me the other day’, it was even joked around in the ‘Ballad of Russell and Julie’, the line David Tennant sings is: “I can’t block out, please lock out, images of Johnny B getting his cock out!” (Check that song out by the way), though, it being brought up in the same context as Noel Clarke, does make it hard to believe he would be returning to anything Doctor Who related for a while, if ever, guilty verdict or not, it would definitely ruffle a few feathers... Still not as bad as Clarke... I would highly recommend MrTardis’s video on this subject. He spoke at length about the problem with temporary sets where, say you’re six weeks into a seven weeks production block and an incident happens, everyone’s going to have the air of, ‘let’s just get over with this’ and how there’s no real ability to support victims while on the set, especially when you’re as big a name as Noel Clarke, who is a huge name in British TV, when you’ll get enablers on the production, because Clarke may have been their biggest name and biggest draw and what drives most things in the industry? Money... Sorry to sound so cynical, but I can’t find another explanation. I think both should be punished but for me, it’s like punishing a serial pick-pocket the same way you’d punish someone who’s defrauded so many innocent of thousands of pounds. Yes, they’re both bad, but not the same.

@penguinnj173yahoo6

3 жыл бұрын

I am so glad someone brought up The Ballad of Russell and Julie. When the story broke, I was honestly surprised that Barrowman's behavior was brought up because it was publicly commented on. This was not a secret, and the audience- and show runners- should have made their peace with it (or not) years ago, IMO.

@samuelbarber6177

3 жыл бұрын

@@penguinnj173yahoo6 personally, I never quite took it seriously, but frankly, I could believe, even then, it was something he’d do.

@penguinnj173yahoo6

3 жыл бұрын

@@samuelbarber6177 Oh, I absolutely believed it, I just can't get outraged about it. Your pickpocket analogy was right on the money.

@AndrewHalliwell

3 жыл бұрын

So, basically, Barrowman's a bit of a prankster. Oh the horror, he jokingly got his cock out twenty years ago. If they were fine with it then and found it funny, where's this imagined crime? There is no crime. I'm fine with him. jB didn't deserve punishment, any more than al Jolson would for wearing blackface while singing Mammy. (Though i bet there'd be SJWs totally willing to drag him over the coals too if he was still alive)

@kieransimpson4965

3 жыл бұрын

The elephant in the room is.. that being in love with your own phallus corrupts you. 'everyone has to see it'

Me, having not paid attention to either of these men outside of their actual on-screen appearances and interviews on Doctor Who's KZread channel: I'm sorry they WHAT now?!

@theresisty7122

3 жыл бұрын

Same.

@evilcaptainred

3 жыл бұрын

Double same.

@justlurkingat8

3 жыл бұрын

Triple same

@JamesLawner

3 жыл бұрын

Quadruple same

@laurmarcarok8388

3 жыл бұрын

Same the fifth

Personally, based on the information I have, I feel like Barrowman is the case of "doing stupid shit for kicks". It's not funny, I probably won't ever understand why "haha sex" is funny, but a lot of people find it funny. So. It's not malicious, the way accusations about Noel Clarke seem to be. I mean, people can be traumatised by either, but motives matter. Maybe.

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

That's pretty much my take. Motives and context. Barrowman's actions were obviously wrong but it really seems like it was the big kid getting too excited and taking things too far. He has publicly addressed this with an apology and has seemingly stopped that type of behaviour. Some of Barrowman's co-stars have even come out saying that it was "a laugh." Clarke's actions on the other hand definitely seem malicious and he's even trotted out the cliches of "I did nothing wrong" along with "But I'm sorry for my actions." If he did nothing wrong, why does he need to say sorry?

@alenakirillova5197

3 жыл бұрын

@Ludwig Vondoobledorf well, not on "us as fans" but flashing people is a "hostile work environment" that is a kind of sexual assault. legally, I mean. so technically, as a society, we kinda judge what a group of mates finds funny...

@Stompgrinder

3 жыл бұрын

I think that whether it's "tomfoolery" or "predatory" BOTH should be treated the same! It's inexcusable to be exposing yourself at work or to be sexually harassed. Would "tomfoolery" be accepted on an office, school etc etc? NO!!!

@alenakirillova5197

3 жыл бұрын

@@Stompgrinder aren't they treated differently by the law?

@Stompgrinder

3 жыл бұрын

@@alenakirillova5197 exposing yourself in public is an arrestible offence in UK. That is what Barrowman was doing. Both men need to be prosecuted.

Every time I get off work and this kind of news drops, I feel like Troy Barnes walking into the room with pizzas in his hands If anyone gets that reference, you and I are now cool.

@calebleland8390

3 жыл бұрын

This really is turning into the darkest timeline.

@KitsuneRokaku

3 жыл бұрын

@@calebleland8390 *hands you a fake supervillain mustache* If you can't beat em...

@blinkfilms1

3 жыл бұрын

Cool cool cool

@calebleland8390

3 жыл бұрын

@@KitsuneRokaku Evil Troy and Abed in the Moooorrrrrning!

@AKDomingo

3 жыл бұрын

Nightssss…

This is a tough one. One of my most cherished memories involves John Barrowman. I'd had a major depressive episode the day I was supposed to leave for a convention, to the point where I was seriously considering not going (despite all the money I'd spent). I eventually went, and one of the things I got there was a photo op with him and Alex Kingston. Just something about the way they both were so open, they both gave me a hug, and just that little gesture was such a mood lift (one of the few pictures of myself I actually like). The next year I was at a convention with both of them again, and I gave them each a note explaining how much that had meant. I wasn't able to see her panel, but I did see his, and he read the note at the end, saying how much it meant to him. So this is a tough one. That said, I think we have to make a distinction between inappropriate, and harmful. Barrowman's behavior was inappropriate, but the people who he was doing it to don't appear to consider it harmful. Clarke's was absolutely harmful. Now if people come out and say that they were upset by it, then yes he should be condemned for it. But for now, I agree with your comparison to Gunn. It seems like a non-issue for now.

@sethmcsnotter7872

3 ай бұрын

And I think a big differnce was that no one who worked with Barrowman seemed to have a big problem woth him or have bad things to say and most of the references to it were finding it funny witch would have only egged it on

What makes me sad about Noel Clarke is that I really liked his character in Doctor Who and I always felt Mickey Smith was badly treated and bullied by Rose and the Doctor. I also liked his activism off screen. It is so upsetting that he would behave in such an awful way. Similarly to Whedon, this feels like a betrayal. I completely agree with you that it feels like there might have been some inappropriate behaviour that was allowed to happen on set and no one put a stop to it. Sadly, I think this has been the norm for a very long time. Point in case, Jeremy Clarkson, one of the most offensive TV personalities I have ever come across, a former Top Gear presenter, had a successful career at the BBC despite being openly misogynistic, racist and just plain rude. He finally got sacked after he punched someone who got him the wrong sandwich, only to move on to a successful career on another channel presenting Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. It's depressing.

@alanpennie8013

3 жыл бұрын

I'd forgotten that. Mickey was very much low mutt on the show, frequently insulted by The Doctor.

Ugh. Ecclestone took a LOT of heat for his abrupt departure; but the toxicity of that set, that he’s sometimes hinted at, may be coming to light... Rowling. Singer. Whedon. *Sigh*. (For purely selfish reasons, I just want one of my geeky fandoms to NOT be retroactively tainted...) 😔

@Martin-xd4jl

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure about Chris Eccleston in relation to these allegations; he hasn't been hugely specific about why he left Who, but he's been outspoken enough about the industry that I think he would have named names if he'd seen criminal abuse on set, as opposed to it just being a crappy working environment.

@marocat4749

3 жыл бұрын

I captain acks and davies era shall be tainted, it better in a grand showcase to try making industry safety better and calling that out, its what jack would have wanted. If going, going with a bang. For safer work conditions.

@EmoBearRights

3 жыл бұрын

From what he said in an interview I always get the impression that Eccleston thought the crew were being overworked and underappreciated. Plus I think he was suffering from depression at the time but Barrowman did say they didn't get on. I think it was a clash of personalities nothing more.

@ftumschk

3 жыл бұрын

@@EmoBearRights Yes, and I'm fairly sure that Eccleston has been consistent in saying that the clashes were with the senior production team (RTD, Phil Collinson and/or Julie Gardner).

@Estarfigam

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe we should read more Terry Pratchett and JRR Tolkien, even George RR Martian.

Barrowman has publically admitted exposing himself on the set of Dr Who and Torchwood, and several of his costars have spoken about it as well, including Eve Myles and Billie Piper, and it all seems to have been something they got a laugh out of it. Doesn't necessarily make it okay, but it was clearly done with good humour by Barrowman and accepted in that way by cast and crew.

@landlighterfirestar5550

3 жыл бұрын

I think another point to remember about Barrowman is the gap of time, and also the apology. Vera said in the video that she found evidence of him apologizing for his behavior and how he was overly enthusiastic or whatever when he was younger. Now I’m sure people are gonna hate on you and me for even thinking about voicing our own opinions because they’re different and therefore wrong...

@ftumschk

3 жыл бұрын

"I hope John Barrowman kept his trousers zipped. We can't have Lis Sladen suffering that indignity" (Email from Russell T Davies to Doctor Who Magazine's Benjamin Cook about the filming of Stolen Earth, 11th March 2008) Freema Agyeman was initially uncomfortable with JB's antics on the _Torchwood_ set: "John will walk about with his chap hanging out, having conversations with people. Everyone would just be talking to him normally and it would only be the new people, such as myself, that would be freaked out." (Metro magazine, 21st Feb 2008)

@Gingerprince521

3 жыл бұрын

@@ftumschk Wasn't there a story somewhere where Barrowman was asked (at a convention maybe) weather he'd thought about getting it out in front of Lis Sladen and Barrowman was baffled why anyone would think he would? It seems Barrowman use to walk a tightrope between what was acceptable humour and not. That said a tightrope is still a tightrope, one wrong step and its a long drop down.

@GracieLizzy

3 жыл бұрын

@@Gingerprince521 I recall the story was he couldn't do it in front of Lis Sladen because he grew up watching Sarah Jane Smith as a kid so it felt like flashing his grandmother. This is the thing that always struck me as odd about the Barrowman situation it seemed like most others on set were up for it but he had no way to know that was the case for everyone so it was massively inappropriate, but it feels that most of the people who told these stories were amused. It just seems like the atmosphere of the early Doctor Who relaunch was toxic and kind of bizarre. Really not sure what to make of it, I know I would have been massively uncomfortable in Freema Agyeman's boots as well.

@asankagurusinghe6128

3 жыл бұрын

@@GracieLizzy Would a black actor do that on a white majority set? They know what would happen.

Interesting difference, I was very taken aback hearing about Clarke... with Barrowman, my reaction was basically: “Yeah... I can believe that.”

@EmoBearRights

3 жыл бұрын

I don't think Barrowman meant offense but he does have a rude and immature sense of humour. I do think there's an issue if people were uncomfortable and felt they couldn't say but otherwise I'm a bit dubious taking offense on behalf of those who don't express it.

@samuelbarber6177

3 жыл бұрын

@@EmoBearRights maybe I’m just biased towards Barrowman because Jack Harkness is one of the best things to come out modern Doctor Who, but I think it does depend on how people take it, whether they found it funny, just found it uncomfortable but not worth getting uppety about (as in they couldn’t really be bothered to be offended) or found it a genuinely harsh and traumatic experience. All of which I’d understand. Plus, there’s motive, Clarke clearly intended his crime where Barrowman just did it out of a crude and gross humour moment.

@EmoBearRights

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah Barrowman's much more a grey area if people were uncomfortable and didn't think they could say it's an issue but it's not in the same league as Clarke's.

@ian1585

3 жыл бұрын

@@samuelbarber6177 When most people are taking his antics as jokes but you don't, then in a way you are forced to see it differently. There could be people laughing about it now who are just in denial to their own feelings on the matter. Hence why I still hold John accountable.

I get the impression that Barrowman has generally learned that flashing people is bad actually and not okay, but I was at Emerald City Comic Con 2015 where he was a guest. I can’t confirm this firsthand, but apparently he and Alex Kingston (who was also there) had autograph booths across the aisle from each other and kept teasing and joking with each other, and they only moved them away from each other after Barrowman mooned her. At the time my friends and I (who were in line for another person) just went “lol that’s Barrowman” and clearly he and Alex were enjoying messing with each other, but y’know, data point.

I think my big issue with Barrowman is that he used to put his "little Barrowman" onto people. Including Jackie's actress as well as Eve Myles, that is s*xual harassment whether people like it or not. However, as you said I think if it hasn't happened since and he apologies for it again publicly I think I'd feel a lot more comfortable with the whole situation.

@jasonbolding3481

3 жыл бұрын

well no, if it is accepted it's not harassment

@silverdoe3658

3 жыл бұрын

Last year on Dancing on Ice he put one of the contestants hands on his arse as well as a sneaky nuts on Celebrity Juice so he really hasn’t grown up

@Andyapp

3 жыл бұрын

@@silverdoe3658 I mean the Dancing on Ice incident is unacceptable but anybody that goes on Celebrity Juice knows what they are signing up for. That's like watching an episode of South Park and complaining that it's racist and misogynistic

@gwarner99b

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonbolding3481 There is accepted and there is “accepted”. If there is a power imbalance in the relationship, acceptance can be acquiescence under pressure at best, and a form of rape/assault at worst.

@sallyatticum

3 жыл бұрын

@@lololee24 Well.... Julie Gardner said that there was a complaint on Torchwood and she reprimanded JB and spoke to his agent and the BBC and that the behavior ended as far as she knows. And he did make a public apology in 2008.

Honestly what I find most hard is that I truly believe John barrowman is a lovely guy who never did anything with inetent to offend. I know that specific incidents with the main Torchwood cast are genuinely watertight as they’ve all said they love it, Eve Myles even said she wouldn’t change one thing about barrowmans and her relationship at a con panel after telling the hair roller incident for the umpteenth time.. What unfortunate is that on open set no one pulled him up on it, and from what I gather the radio interview must have been that waking up moment of, oh this makes people uncomfortable. I don’t know, it’s not okay what he did, but I can’t hold anything against the guy when he’s publicly apologised for it before and has been such a wonderfully kind ambassador for the show all these years. I would love for him to just make a statement apologising for any upset and then continue playing jack in big finish and doctor who alike. Also I think people calling him the same things as Clarke, trying to paint him as some sexual predator are severely misguided. People need to calm down, regardless I think his career will survive

@Mark-pl3bv

3 жыл бұрын

When has he ever apologized for it? And honestly, he wasn't 20 when this all went down. At 35, you should know not to put your d*ck on a woman's shoulder "as a joke".

@dante6985

3 жыл бұрын

He may not have intended to offend, but what he did was grossly inappropriate, not okay, and completely contrary to common sense. Predatory? No. Career-Survivable? I think so... but I understand the condemnation. As the trendy say, "Who does that?"

@lolajones9170

3 жыл бұрын

@@dante6985 I think it's because his co-stars were very open and took the stuff he did as a joke. Eve Myles even said she took photos with his junk a couple of times so his antics generally got positive feedback. That's how I see it: if your actions are encouraged, you tend to forget how inappropriate they can be. Not saying that makes everything ok but I believe intent matters and his wasn't malicious.

@nolifealan9746

3 жыл бұрын

@@lolajones9170 that's the part people ignore from what I seen his actions aren't good but they where encourage at the set so he probably didn't think they care and thought it was just all childish fun still wrong to me but that part can't be ignored

@Anonymous-lg8go

3 жыл бұрын

@@Mark-pl3bv in 2008 when it happened

As far as I'm aware. The laws may have changed in recent years, but it's my understanding that indecent exposure is only a criminal offence if it offends someone. Otherwise nude scenes on set, nudest camps, gym changing rooms, saunas ect can exist without people getting in trouble. For me unless john actually deeply upset people by his behaviour then it's not much of an issue. Noel for me ive no defence. It's not going to stop me re watching dr who eppisodes hes appeared in. I feel I'm able to separate the two. Noel is noel and Mickey is Mickey. To quote Micky "I know it's not going to be easy with me having the same face as him, but I'm not him I'm a completely different man" (probably not word for work but something to that affect.

@lilithhedwig5408

3 жыл бұрын

Same That's the reason why I can still deeply enjoy Buffy

@inthedriversseat928

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, in order for it to be classed as an offence it has to be proven that they exposed themselves in order to cause alarm or distress, but it could also be a crime if any minors were present, or if the intent was to sexually harass someone.

I've worked at conventions that Barrowmen was at, and thus met him several times, and we've always been aware of his M15+ rating. We have warnings on his panels about language and sexual content. But the first time I met him I was getting a photo with him and was wearing a rather small crop top (I wasn't working at that show) and he was very careful when he hugged me to not touch skin. At the time I just thought that was him being a respectful, keeping in mind that at the time I could pass for a teenager. However, knowing this stuff now, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had gotten in trouble/called-out for something in the past that has made him be more careful. Personally, for me, the fact that he has taken that on board and changed his behaviour is what matters. He'll still touch your junk if you ask him to but he will wait to be asked, and if you do not specify he will be very careful where he puts his hands.

I think Army of the Dead showed us the way forward with situations like these and Noel Clarke should be digitally replaced by Tig Notaro. With Barrowman, it's worth pointing out that on the set of Torchwood, he wasn't the only one who got their privates out. In the commentary of one of the S1 episodes on DVD Eve Myles and Naoko Mori both make lighthearted comments about getting their kit off too. It seems to be, as you say, an inappropriate workplace culture rather than anything too sinister.

@abig_old_swan

3 жыл бұрын

Idk. Noel Clarke is a godawful person, but I still like mickey as a character.

@tchklette

3 жыл бұрын

An “inappropriate workplace culture” can be very “sinister” if you are the one unwillingly forced to deal with it to keep your job.

@shauntempley9757

3 жыл бұрын

Eve even gets caught on camera doing it in one of those commentaries. It was Barrowman that she did it to. It felt like something friends do to each other for fun, and felt natural to the personalities they were. Eccelston feels like someone that would draw the line with that, but be funny in other ways.

@Thomas_of_the_forest

2 жыл бұрын

@@shauntempley9757 yeah, with what'a come out about about Barrowman and Eccleston being more open about why he left, seems pretty clear that Barrowman was a strong part reason into his decision to leave.

@Cubanlink73

Жыл бұрын

@@abig_old_swan true

As far as I know nobody has come out to accuse Barrowman of anything inappropriate and as his not so funny prank has been publically known for the last 15 years I can't see there being a problem.

@parosmarpissa

3 жыл бұрын

I'm aware I am just a random poster but hear me out: I was always a big fan of Barrowman, I'm a gay man myself and appreciated the representation. That beings said I have heard of NUMEROUS accounts of gay men who have felt violated by and received inappropriate behaviour from Barrowman. Over 3 years ago a very close friend who works in an adjacent industry told me of a personal experience. I do not think this is the last we will be hearing about him I'm afraid.

@booradley8895

3 жыл бұрын

@@parosmarpissa Your close friend then should go to the police if he was the victim of a sexual assault

@parosmarpissa

3 жыл бұрын

As you know it is not always as simple a case as that.

@jujublue4426

3 жыл бұрын

@@booradley8895 Even women are not always listened, men are not taken seriously because in everyone's mind only women can suffer from sexual harrassment. It's not that easy for victims to talk because they feel guilty, haven't you noticed the number of sexual harrassment/rape accusations which only happened years after the crime ?

@Igivegdparent

3 жыл бұрын

@@booradley8895 alot of men dont want to be labeled as gay or feel forced to come out even terry crews took a mini hit when he said that older men tried to touch him or something people thought it was weird since he is such a huge guy

I met John Barrowman too, at ComicCon Germany in Stuttgart, I was there as reporter for a "geek" magazine, PnP, Comics, Fantasy and stuff. It was the day of his and Scott's anniversary. He ended his solo panel singing "A Thousand Years" , for him. I legit cried. I understand your bias and I share it.

Aaaaaaw, F#*K.... * goes to bed, pulls blankets over head *

@johnmeyer4789

3 жыл бұрын

@Rebecca Woolf I wonder what his CW costars will say if asked, but I'd lay money that your assessment is correct.

@cannibalisticrequiem

3 жыл бұрын

@Rebecca Woolf Can you not? Like seriously, can you not? It's so fucking gross the length to which fans will go to in order to defend someone they like but don't know at all, because they don't want to ruin their perception of them being a "good"/"nice"/"perfect" person. It's not genuine at all to dedicate a whole paragraph to defending inappropriate behavior because "Well *I* don't think it's predatory", and tack on one sentence at the end saying "Yeah, it's pretty gross".

@marocat4749

3 жыл бұрын

Paracocial hum, and fellow cry.

@gozerthegozarian9500

3 жыл бұрын

@@yussepig6629 Sooo...groping and sexual assault being depressingly common is your argument for... what, exactly?

@gozerthegozarian9500

3 жыл бұрын

@@yussepig6629 so you don't actually have any argument to make, you just felt like condescending, got it! Btw: I never claimed it was "just a male issue" and your claim that this kind of stuff is unique to "the Western world" is a) wrong, b) ignorant and c) racist. Bored now...

All of this just makes me sad. As a survivor of sa and csa, I wish these things would stop happening.

@charleston1789

3 жыл бұрын

I’m so sorry you had to go through that, you deserve better 💙

This week has really raised questions about the work environment surrounding the Russell T Davies era honestly, it makes me think there is even more to what happened in Series 1 filming in particular.

@alicebethell8069

3 жыл бұрын

Mainly more due to the John Barrowmna stuff as like you said, there is no (current) evidence so far as I know that Noel Clarke abused someone on the Doctor Who set but it is definitely something that occurred to me. The most pressing issue rn is making sure the victims of Noel Clarke are able to have their voices heard and get justice.

@carolinemcgovern4488

3 жыл бұрын

I would not be surprised if things were stressful, and some people went a bit too far. Still doesn't excuse Barrowman's inappropriateness but between this and Chris leaving, I'd not be surprised if some toxicity went on.

Your glasses compliment your make-up beautifully.

@pippavombr5856

3 жыл бұрын

Doesn't they look great? I just love the look 😍

@kellswitch

3 жыл бұрын

I've seen and loved her glasses before but the lashes actually make them prettier.

@tolkienuntangled

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, your glasses are great! 🤩

I’m glad you’re making this video. It’s very important that this is talked about.

@whovian1055

3 жыл бұрын

This isn’t something to be ignored. Spreading awareness to the who fandom will assure that Clarke gets what he deserves. We can’t just ignore the things that he has done! We can’t let people get away with that stuff.

They reference John Barrowmans bizzarly uncomfortable prank thing in that end of Davis run song parody, so it's not like they were trying to hide it. I also just see it as only a step further of the types of things guys typically find funny in locker rooms, that's not me defending it I hate it there to, but I can see how someone as open as John being the type to take that immature humor and embrassing it until someone steps in to tell him it makes people uncomfortable.

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

Watch almost any convention footage from that time that mentions Barrowman and there's probably at least a passing reference to what he did. I also don't condone what he did but I can also see that he's the type of character who will get wound up in the moment and take things too far. In his mind for the fun of it and with no malice, he has that type of personality. From what I've seen, it's been pointed out to him and he apologised for his actions, while seemingly stopping that type of behaviour. If anything new/more recent were to appear then it would be a whole other thing.

Me, personally, as someone who absolutely has the Barrowman Bias, I’m prepared to let his actions go as it really does appear that he thought it would be funny, not intentionally being malicious, but I fully understand if people can’t forgive that. As for Noel Clarke... I don’t think I’ll be able to watch Mickey for a long long time, maybe ever

I agree on these being VERY different scenarios but I also think both say a lot about the kind of culture fostered in the entertainment industry. Having worked in entertainment, there's this insane assumption that being creative means not having boundaries and that you need to have your boundaries pushed without any concern for how far or who is doing the pushing. All which usually boils down to men being sexually inappropriate and being expected to normalize hiding your own discomfort. This kind of environment is miserable to work in and mostly serves to empower inappropriate and predatory behaviors. Whether that means laughing off a co-worker exposing their genitals to you or being "jokingly" propositioned by someone who can fire you or being pressured into getting naked in a audition, it's all dependent on a culture that discourages and punishes personal boundaries and safety.

@charleston1789

3 жыл бұрын

You are so right about the immediate assumption that boundaries will disappear, I remember that from drama school and for some, like me, it was ok but I know for others it absolutely wasn’t. I hate the atmosphere that it creates for many people and it’s hard to speak up about it without being judged by everyone else as a killjoy

Everything you said are my thoughts exactly. On current information, John Barrowman was highly inappropriate in a way that I recognise from people I know irl - ie. having very minimal physical boundaries, and not thinking much of being naked or fully realising that it's not okay to do outside of specific contexts. This is absolutely something that should have been stopped by higher ups immediately and the fact it wasn't confers blame on both Barrowman and, as you said, the general culture on-set. While I do not condone his behaviour at all and I'm very glad he seems to have learned better, it's likely not something I will hold a long term grudge over. Noel Clarke's behaviour on the other hand is consistent, predatory, manipulative and demeaning. From the 20 instances in the existing article, I get the distinct feeling that they are the tip of the iceberg. I don't think I'll feel comfortable watching Mickey for a while, but I hope I'll eventually be able to manage a degree of separation between the actor and character. Mickey has always been one of my absolute favourite characters and I don't want some predator's actions to take that away from me, but I suppose only time will tell.

Personally, I've known about John Barrowmans actions on set for a while. I must have seen some of those old clips of people talking about it, maybe even him himself. I'm fairly certain that (Torchwood:Children of Earth spoilers ahead) in torchwood children of earth, when captain Jack was incased in a cement block, and Ianto broke him out of it by dropping the block off a hill/cliff. When captain Jack stood up and was greeted by Gwen, Barrowman was actually nude as a surprise thing. Maybe having known this for a while is why it's not hitting me hard, I've already digested it. I'm also really glad you pointed out that there haven't been any (as we know) instances of this behavior since '08. The actions of Noel however... Well... You summed it up so I don't have too. Probably won't be rewatching anything with him in it for a while. But as for Captain Jack, I'd gladly welcome him back/watch his episodes without issue. Again, probably because I've already had so much time to digest it. To each their own though 💯 that's just where I'm at. Thank you for making this video, very very well done. ♥

@ian1585

3 жыл бұрын

You and everybody else were conditioned to accept John's behaviour. Makes me think that there might be people who feel they can't talk about it because everybody else finds it funny. I can see people pretending to laugh at something so they can fit in with a group or not be seen in a certain way.

@minaolenella869

3 жыл бұрын

@@ian1585 well, as it was pointed out. JB was nakedmultiple times on DW scenes too, as a work. So him being sometimes naked outside scenes is really not that surprising.

Thank you I just really needed someone to talk about this rationally so I can deal with my own feelings on each. So I truly appreciate the video. Sort of want to crawl under something, scream about the drama being brought to my dear DW, cry for the women who experienced such turmoil, slap JB in the back of the head and ask WTF dude and give Eccleston a hug of true understanding. In any case you've gained a new subscriber in me. Thank you.

Barrowman used to brag about flashig people to "rid them of their inhibitions" (yeah, he really said that!) and I was like: "Uh...getting flashed gave me extra inhibitions on top of the ones I had already, a**hole..."

@homebody13

3 жыл бұрын

Oh but it was a ‘joke’ … 🤬

@gateauxq4604

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I remember hearing about this from con appearances so that was really not shocking.

@WritingWomen

3 жыл бұрын

The character I still enjoy but the actor himself I can’t stand. I’ll never forgive him for forcing me to live through this discourse where I constantly see people explaining why flashing people without consent is totally okay and funny, actually

@sulijoo

3 жыл бұрын

Leslie Neilsen brought a whoopy cushion to break the ice at parties. I know which one I prefer.

@deathshadow551

3 жыл бұрын

people act like he's still doing all that stuff, he already apologized to the people he made feel uncomfortable and since then never did anything about it and grew as a person and admits that what he did was wrong. even now he's not defending what he did . people need to calm down

Thank you for this discussion, it's helping me make sense of this mess of a situation. Now could men please stop ruining my favourite things...

I mean Kevin spacey is a monster in his personal life it would seem but I still absolutely love house of cards so I'm used to separating actors from their characters. When it comes to Barrowman it's pretty clear he had no bad intentions still doesn't excuse him but there is a difference between him and Noel

@Igivegdparent

3 жыл бұрын

someone mentioned above their may have been some men he has harassed but luckily men very rarely like to come clean in fear of being accused of being gay so they probably wont come clean

@ohauss

3 жыл бұрын

Indeed. From the article linked in the pinned comment, it's clear that he was told by Gardner to stop it and after that dressing down, he did stop.

I find that the two main differences between barrowman and Clarke are extremely important. While what barrowman did was wrong, he never tried to hide it and it was only ever (as far as we know) for comedic purposes on a set comprised entirely of adults. While it doesn’t excuse him, he never intended to hurt anyone whereas Clarke did this as a show of power (supposedly). The fact that Clarke even mentioned barrowman as a retort to his own allegations is like he is using barrowman as a scapegoat to try and sway public opinion of him. Barrowman is wrong for what he did, however he has not hid it and therefore it is likely that everyone who was within line of site either already knew it was going to happen or had no issue with it as there have not been any misconduct allegations toward barrowman for this ( as far as I know). But that is Just my opinion so...

@dmmoctober

3 жыл бұрын

I dont think he did mention him as a scapegoat - Noel told stories about JB’s cock in an affectionate, reminiscing way at a DW conf years ago ...

@skyguy_4146

3 жыл бұрын

@@dmmoctober ahhhh fair enough - my mistake xD

@puppycatsbee

3 жыл бұрын

but why would anyone even do what john did in the first place? idk maybe it's just cause i'm asexual, and i just don't find that kind of thing funny or appealing at all, but most people do because most people are not asexual.

@skyguy_4146

3 жыл бұрын

@@puppycatsbee yeah I get that, I am pretty sure what John did was an attempt to release tension within the group, but it could have had the opposite effect. I could be wrong though, after all, I wasn’t there xD

@minaolenella869

3 жыл бұрын

@@puppycatsbee his dad and uncles did this kind of jokes all the time. It is sort of family tradition

John Barrowman has been known to bare his backside on Instagram, so stories of him flashing his co-stars would be on brand for him. His actions are done in humour and most likely not as an aggressive sexual action, so for me it’s not something I’m going to condemn him for. For me it comes down to intent. Utilising power to intimidate and harass someone (as per the stories re Noel Clarke) is much more significant than someone trying to make a joke, however much in poor taste it may be.

@t_albino

3 жыл бұрын

Where's the Boundary though...?

@chloeleighhardy3435

3 жыл бұрын

True you can’t just go putting your penis on people’s shoulders though. Learn when people become uncomfortable and stop.

Regarding the stuff about Barrowman, having been in drama and actor circles myself, I know the kind of atmosphere that can develop when enough cast and crew get comfortable with another, it can result in stupid things happening, with bystanders drafted along for the ride. If I were to describe it further, I'd say it's like getting 'drink off the atmosphere', it's not an excuse but does give context to the intent of those in the industry when these incidents occur. Like Nathanial though, I'm open to changing my mind if more information comes out.

@cuedotfilms4427

3 жыл бұрын

I've seen this a lot with actors I've worked with. Big egos trying to out do one another, then one goes just a little too far in heat of the moment. It's all part of the acting scene.

@mrrobotvoice8321

3 жыл бұрын

@@cuedotfilms4427 i dont think john did it out of ego if you have seen alot of his public appearances thats just how he is (not defending his actions)

@cuedotfilms4427

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrrobotvoice8321 This reminds me of how Kenneth Williams was. He would often expose himself to other actors, they would then say, "oh Kenny put it away". He would then regret his actions and feel disgusted by it. I've never met or seen JB live so I can't judge what place exposing himself comes from. In interviews he comes across as a very confident likeable person. I would have to know the context in the moment of why he would expose himself. Is it showing off, to shock or sexul? I have met people who have done that, they have been drunk, and I've just shrugged it off and no one was offended. If JB was trying to intimidate someone then that's different and very serious.

@cuedotfilms4427

3 жыл бұрын

@@mrrobotvoice8321 PS. An old memory has come back to me. I was 9 years old and I was on holiday in Cornwall. I went running off on my own and went behind a big rocky alcove. A man was there in just trunks who then exposed himself to me. He said, do you like it? I said no and ran away. I was so shocked I didn't tell my mum and dad, I felt embarrassed and sick. I should have done looking back. Now that really was serious.

I love your intelligent and honest presentations on issues like this. I worked with JB on a DW episode in the David Tennant era. The guy is manic, generally in a nice way, and it doesn’t surprise me at all that he might do this. It makes me think of Kenneth Williams doing his “vag trick” on the tea lady on the Carry-On set. I think some environments, especially showbiz ones, create a ramped-up, anything goes culture. I hope he and his colleagues have learned that they still live in the real world and need to behave accordingly.

Here’s the thing though, John had been naked on the set before for various scenes. One would think that if people work in a setting where they regularly see someone naked, seeing them naked in that setting would just be normal... somebody please fill me in if I’m missing something but the captain was on multiple occasions in Torchwood and even Doctor Who, so I’m not sure why it would be problematic for it to happen again.

Doesn't matter how you feel about John, no one should watch torchwood miracle day.

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

Ouch....although I can't really disagree with it. ;-)

@gateauxq4604

3 жыл бұрын

Fr fr

@annabelcrescibene4257

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t consider anything after season two canon

@twilightsmum24

3 жыл бұрын

@@annabelcrescibene4257 glad I'm not the only one

@bongoman9578

3 жыл бұрын

@@annabelcrescibene4257 why not children of earth

What happened? I’m out of the loop. I met John he was a sweetheart. I’m sick of my favs turning out to be gross

@ClaraFinn

3 жыл бұрын

Clarke has been accused by at least 20 people of sexual misconduct and harassment and bullying. He retaliated by claiming (there’s video evidence I believe) Barrowman exposed himself on set, plus Barrowman has a pretty transphobic track record and Christopher Eccleston quite notoriously never got on with him

@stevetayler9518

3 жыл бұрын

@@ClaraFinn Not that it makes any difference really but it wasn’t done in ‘retaliation’. The video of Noel talking about Barrowman exposing himself was already out there. It was from a convention years ago, looks 2007/08-ish. 🙂 If anything it makes it worse, as the things being said are presented as a ‘funny story’ in public, not as shameful crimes.

@marocat4749

3 жыл бұрын

He isnt gross appearently ,ust did behave,, very immature, which isnt even a secret, he is a sweetheart but also did behave like a fratboy. And is better now, an open, and it just shouldnr be excused, even if people like him still, its just, its not ok and he did mature here appearently. ust its worth being said liike, that shouldnt be ok.

@ClaraFinn

3 жыл бұрын

@@stevetayler9518 yeah I think I might’ve been fooled by sensationalist British tabloid headlines I’d seen.

@EmoBearRights

3 жыл бұрын

I'm being serious and geunine here - what's this about JB being transphobic?

There was a James Marsters panel from years ago where he talked about being on the Torchwood set. He said that one morning John Barrowman was groping and trying to kiss Naoko Mori and she was telling John, “Not today, not today.” but John was ignoring her. So James taught Naoko some pretty intense self defence moves, one of which involved breaking John’s nose and she and the rest of the crew that were in earshot looked at James like he was a monster for suggestion she use these moves against John. James said he later found out that was just the way John was on set and everyone was fine with it.

@dubbingsync

3 жыл бұрын

All details of that sounds iffy to be honest. Not saying the story is a lie it just sounds off.

@ajhorniman8285

3 жыл бұрын

@@dubbingsync I have heard this directly from those who were on set, James, John, Naoko, Eve, & Gareth. Remember this was an adult rated show (Torchwood) where various member of cast had done nude & intimate / sex scenes). James also said that he was worried that he had to kiss John (after seeing John messing about) but the next day John was a perfect gentleman, & reassuring screen partner. This was never a secret, & (imho) doesn't compare in anyway to what NC has been accused of.

@ThatPinkWeirdo

3 жыл бұрын

I haven’t watched James’s panels in a while, but I know I’ve seen two of them where he relays this story about John Barrowman. I went back through some of the panels on KZread and was able to find one of the panels from Monster Mania Horror convention in 2009 where James talks about John’s on set behaviour while filming Torchwood. The story starts at 11:10. He doesn’t mention that Naoko is the actress being groped during this panel. I’m trying to locate the one where he does. kzread.info/dash/bejne/noqd3LGyccK7ftY.html This goes to show that the atmosphere of sexual misconduct that was on the Doctor Who set carried over to the Torchwood set. I think James’s initial reaction to seeing John’s behaviour for the first time before it became normalized to him was completely justified.

@ajhorniman8285

3 жыл бұрын

@@ThatPinkWeirdo considering what James experienced on the Buffy set (from JW) , I understand his reaction completely. The last panel of JM I was, I believe, at a *Scottish play* Master Class, weekend which he did with GDL. Both regular cast (torchwood) actresses are doing are popular & well known now, & are still close to JB (both of whom were known to do similar things to JB). I'm not saying that if this happened now, it would be correct behaviour today. I'm saying that on the Torchwood set the lines of work & social gathering with friends, were blurred. JB apologiesed years back, & seems to understand that times have changed (& has changed with them). If one understands the times when JB was growing up, & gay culture & theatre culture one can see where the behaviour grew from. All members of the Torchwood cast (& actors from other shows) who have committed have stated that JB was doing it as a stress reliever for cast & crew on long shoots or after intense scenes. Unlike NC, JB wasn't doing it for power, or to intimidated ppl, so I find it unfortunate that the two behaviours have been somehow linked. To me it lessens the severity of NC 'alleged' actions on those poor actors. I'm pretty sure there are some panels (on Utube) of smaller, more intimate Cons which have JM saying that his girlfriend was turned on by the scene in 'KKBB' & that he (JM) "got lucky" that night. (If I can find any pertinent videos on utube, I'll post a link.)🖖

@ajhorniman8285

3 жыл бұрын

Opps, I should have watched that video clip 1st! Sorry, its late & I'm tired JM really said pretty much everything I did. FYI Similar antics, happened on Supernatural set, & James was 'pranked' when he guested there too. Still happy to find clips for you... Though I doubt there are any of the JM & GDL Marster class.

I agree with your view. What John did was stupid but i can ot remember seeing anyone complaining about it but what Noel did was predatory using his position to abuse people.

You broke this down very well. The trouble I have with John Barrowman is that a lot of his behaviour crosses into sexual harassment whether intentional or not. I am aware John Barrowman may have rectified his behaviour but I do feel like he needs to be held accountable and the matter needs to be addressed in some form. If it doesn't and John Barrowman appears in Series 13 although I will no doubt still enjoy Captain Jack as its a character I will always find enjoyment from I will struggle with my feelings of John Barrowman's continued involvement in the show when the matter continues to be shoved under the carpet and go unaddressed given some of the severity of his actions. I don't think he is beyond forgiveness if he has genuinely learnt from his behaviour and amended it but I personally do think it needs to be addressed

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

Genuinely asking, how would you hold him accountable after all this time? He's apologised publicly (at least once, maybe more) and has seemingly stopped that type of behaviour. His actions have been known for many years, watch almost any convention footage that discusses him and it's all there. It hasn't been 'shoved under the carpet' and was addressed at the time. If nothing new and more current surfaces then I don't see what there is to be done towards him, it's been done as far as I can see.

@tardisnet9487

3 жыл бұрын

Its been known about but laughed and joked about which is pretending the issue doesn't exist. There was an apology once with the BBC Radio incident when there were enough complaints to justify a statement. But the behaviour has still been publicly made a joke of in years since. I think there should be a statement from John Barrowman and the BBC where the actor can show that he has grown and matured and that he recognises the harm of his behaviour and the severity of it, I think genuine regret and growth is an important factor

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

@@tardisnet9487 Hmmm, I don't necessarily agree with your first sentence (although there's some truth to it) but there's validity to the rest of your post. Part of me feels like a further statement from him is just dragging it old news further but one where he talks about the bigger picture, while including what he did, would be welcomed. After all, he has been pulled into this so it would be an appropriate time to address the matter. Maybe he will, as it's still relatively early days for the accusations against Clarke? I agree that genuine regret and growth is important and most of the time we don't really get to see that. However, a statement doesn't really show that either, it's just words. I think that is shown by him not committing any more acts like he did in the past, which appears to be the case. If other and newer ones come to light because of recent events, then it all goes to a whole new level and he gets treated very differently. :-)

@tardisnet9487

3 жыл бұрын

I mean I'm no expert on how it should be handled so this is just personally what I think would be the best appropriate cause of action. However I think John Barrowman may have well shown that he has grown from not engaging in the same behaviour but he will have only shown that internally and I think he does need to show that to the public aswell

@lwaves

3 жыл бұрын

@@tardisnet9487 IMO, by not committing any more acts like he used to, he's shown it externally as well and to the public. The very nature of it means it's more than an internal thing. As I say, unless any more come to light because of recent events. Obviously I'm no expert either and like you, I'm just stating the way I see it, which is why I agree that a statement from him addressing the bigger picture could be a good thing. :-)

It's wierd I'm actually getting to a point where I'm really hoping that nobody in my other fandoms (mainly critical role, but that's not too risky, it's hard to play d&d with a prick without it being obvious) turns out to be awful. I feel like that should be a new thing, but correct me if I'm wrong

@GracieLizzy

3 жыл бұрын

Critical Role had this but it was with Orion Acaba way back in campaign 1.

@Salsmachev

3 жыл бұрын

@@GracieLizzy In fairness he was going through a treatment that is apparently super stressful and also fucks up your emotions, so they did the right thing phasing him out f the show, but I'm willing to cut him some slack.

@yourforbiddenfruit

3 жыл бұрын

I worry a little bit about critical role because they seem to be held to an unrealistically high standard. They have a huge following with a strong parasocial relationship which is pretty wonderful but also comes with huge risks especially when they film most shows live and unedited. They already get flack from ‘fans’ for their in game choices. Having said that there’s a video of Sam as Tiger woods in a skit produced by Will.I.am. Think most people accept that it’s a product of it’s time but it could come back to haunt him because it’s essentially blackface. I mean he’s also looks really like him so I kinda get the casting choice.

I adore John Barrowman, but I've always found the "funny" stories of him flashing people to be personally unsettling. The sudden "revelation" of this information (which was already public) doesn't change that, nor does the revelations about Noel Clarke. John Barrowman did what he did. I don't think it's funny and I imagine it made more than a few people uncomfortable, but it truly is apples and oranges to compare it to filming someone nude without their knowledge or any other more egregious offence, and i think it would be disingenuous to try to equate them. That doesn't give John Barrowman a pass, but it does (or should) put his actions in perspective. I think we definitely CAN (and should) consider the severity of things like this. Some ill-considered tweets from years ago should NOT result in the same response and penalties as groping people or using your authority to pressure them into sex. Likewise, whipping out your junk, while not something you should be doing, should not be treated the same as filming someone nude. The fact that some actions are worse than others doesn't negate how bad any of them are, and pretending their all the same actually does downplay the perceived severity of some of the worst behaviour. If an ancient tweet in poor taste results in the same penalty as sexual assault, then I think it almost trivialises sexual assault.

i'm trying to determine whether all those comments defending john are valid criticisms/arguements or whether it's the fandom being in denial and shock that our queer icon is being taken away from us, so we're therefore making clouded judgements and trying to dampen down and soften the claims by comparing him to noel. is john just the lesser of two evils?

@alicec1533

3 жыл бұрын

It's the latter

@cannibalisticrequiem

3 жыл бұрын

It's absolutely the latter. I expect a bunch of white members of the LGBT+ community to accuse Noel of being a homophobe, and making broader claims of "Well you know black (cis het) men hate gay men, so why should we give Noel any slack???" Of course white LGBT+ folx commenting on this video will vehemently deny that any of *them* are like that (even if they participate in it privately, as long as no one else knows about it, they're safe)... but go onto Reddit or Tumblr and start poking around, and you'll find it not too far hidden under the surface.

@maurinet2291

3 жыл бұрын

I thought the video was pretty even handed about that.

@iciajay6891

3 жыл бұрын

They have both done terrible things. Tbh, flashing genitals is a crime in my country. Regardless of context. It sat wrong with me then, and dose now. It could also be argued as sexual harassment. As with the first guys alleged crimes. But it is not as serious as the first guys crimes. As a survivor myself, all of this makes me deeply sad.

@joefletcher335

3 жыл бұрын

I think the fact that John Barrowman hasn’t even been called out for anything by the cast says a lot compared with Noel. It was just from an interview where the cast seemed to find it funny if anything , I think they would have acted a lot differently if they were really effected by his actions. Although it was wrong I think people should bare in mind his intentions were not predatory.

Jessie Gender sent me here, and I'm glad I watched. It's hard because I've been a Doctor Who fan from birth. Thank you for being sensitive and as objective as possible.

@Necrophadez

3 жыл бұрын

I love Jessie

First time I’m hearing of this news. I look forward to the video. UPDATE: I thought Barrowman was gonna be accused for stuff like Clarke and others have been, but it’s still weird and dumb of him to have been exposing himself for laughs like that.

@dubbingsync

3 жыл бұрын

I mean... I wouldn’t want any guy to flash at me but I wouldn’t class it as sexual assault. But I can understand why someone could think that.

Christopher Eccleston found it to be a brutal shoot in that there was a lot of gossiping, rumours and no one standing up for the star. Like when he announced his departure. He said from day 1 he only wanted to commit to one series. He did privately say he could have done a second series, but he soon made his mind up based upon his experiences. As a more seasoned actor and a very professional one he took a decision to leave after the one year.

Look, I am an actor. I have been on film sets, I do a lot of theatre work. I'm generally a defender of a lot of inappropriate tomfoolery and jokes. We ran away to join the circus, with all the bizarre craziness that entails. We're all wired a little different. For me? If I laugh at something, it's a joke, and I accept it as such. If I don't laugh? I would probably say, "what the hell are you doing?" Others may feel differently, and that is their right (granted, I am a straight, white, cis male). Bizarre stuff happens all the time, with absolutely no malice intended, but...in general...people don't wag their private parts around over and over, so much as to become a running joke not only among the cast but also the audience. That speaks to...something beyond a playful joke. I do not think John Barrowman is a predator or anything, but....honestly? I think he set out to create a marketable persona for himself, and his in-your-face sexual liberation was part of it. He played it to the hilt. Noel Clark?....F**k that guy. All that said? I am very much a "separate the art from the artist" guy (worked with too many people not to be), I have no problem watching either man's work.

I can't even process what's come to light about Noel. I never knew much about him, but all the same. Scary industry. There will be far more than 20 victims, and far more than 1 perpetrator. Even in film school, there are certain men I refuse to work with, it's all institutional. My sympathy to his victims.

@SpiderBatFan

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah I understand that, for me he played such an innocent character in Doctor Who and played it so well, it’s upsetting to me because I thought it was reflective of how Noel also was, obviously I was completely wrong

Especially in the case of Barrowman it’s so hard to process. I’ve also met him and he was an angel, but I can also picture him doing things like this. It’s wrong what he did and I know it. I’m lost on how to feel/ react in terms of him. Thanks for helping me sort some things out a bit, and not being alone on this!

@krob2327

Жыл бұрын

He’s a wrongun. It’s not ok to expose yourself

As always an evenhanded view. Mickey was one of my favourite companions so it's super sad that Noel Clark let everyone and himself down. I can understand some level of pardoning for Barrowman. Obviously that was terrible and unprofessional behaviour that regardless of the time any person of his years should have known better than to do, but, if it has been dealt with, it has been dealt with. We gotta let people grow...to an extent. Also your eyelashes are looking on-point today.

The difference (at the moment) is that Clarke is being accused of harassment which is being investigated and the complaints are numerous. While the points about Barrowman seem to be more anecdotal that has been kind of accepted (however inappropriate in the workplace this may be) So as I mentioned below Barrowman seems to have walked a tightrope on when his type of behaviour was acceptable or not. This of course could come back to haunt him later down the line but at present there is no complaints against Barrowman and it seems that he has adapted his behavior since that time. The only way I can relate to it is with regards to banter in my own workplace. We've recently had a new guy start who has stated that banter in the workplace was not allowed in his last job. The set up where I work is the depot manager (female) who mainly stays in the office then everyone else (6 drivers/ 4 warehouse staff) is male then there is me who is open about being both Bi and genderfluid. (I changed my name at work 3 months ago) A lot of the banter aimed at me is around my sexuality and my gender identity but I do take it as banter. I've only had two instances where it has crossed the line which was reported to my manager and dealt with. So there exists a line between what I find acceptable and what is offensive or a breach of my rights. That said I'm in a position where I know I can report when that line is crossed where maybe people working with Barrowman at the time didn't feel they could.

You *haven't* seen "Torchwood: Miracle Day"? Oh, you lucky lucky person. I'm so jealous.

@Im_Evie_Now

3 жыл бұрын

I enjoyed it

@calebleland8390

3 жыл бұрын

@@Im_Evie_Now Same

@whotfisphoannix

3 жыл бұрын

[ SPOILERS ] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - torchwood ended when ianto died

@Rhianalanthula

3 жыл бұрын

@@whotfisphoannix that was children of earth.

@whotfisphoannix

3 жыл бұрын

@@Rhianalanthula i know... but only the last episode is without ianto

In terms of John Barrowman....in order to be okay with him returning in the future, I need confirmation he is NOT still acting like this. I can’t be comfortable with his return unless a decent-sized group of people-especially women-from Doctor Who, Arrow, and other stuff he’s been in, come out in support of him. I don’t like guilty until proven innocent but I feel like on some level I’ve been using that excuse to pin the guilt on the people not in power for much longer than I’m comfortable with. I know I did it with Whedon and Ray Fisher when that whole thing started. I dunno, it’s all very conflicting and confusing...

I just hope Russel T Davies haven't done something horrible in the past, or even worse, has continued to do to this day. I like the man too much, it would break my heart.

@SpiderBatFan

3 жыл бұрын

Same

@jonathangriffiths2499

3 жыл бұрын

The Uk Press will be looking , guaranteed

@normanby100

3 жыл бұрын

Does writing crap scripts count?

@HiperPivociarz

3 жыл бұрын

@@normanby100 Yes, but RTD still not guilty then. Moffat and Chibnall tho...

@megaporch583

3 жыл бұрын

He’s a natural pervert look at the stories he done for proof

Your video popped into my recommended and I’m definitely subscribing, you’re super well spoken and I appreciate how genuine you are talking about this whole messed up situation🧡

Thanks for explaining the situation! I've not been following at all and got super confused when one of my old Whovian friends brought it up in an email the other day

I mean John barrowman exposing himself willy nilly can be seen as sexual harassment, its unfair to blame the people around him when he decided to show himself.

@estebandelasexface8193

3 жыл бұрын

Nobody is blaming the people around him. They're looking to the apparent feelings of the people around him to try gauge the effect of his behaviour. How bad doing something like exposing yourself is depends entirely on context, the relationship with the people they did it around, and how those people felt about it. There are many circumstances in which getting naked varies from not that bad to perfectly fine to expected or actively desired.

@projectalpha22_va

3 жыл бұрын

@Parsimonious There’s been rumors for years that Eccleston himself was extremely uncomfortable with Barrowman’s behavior, actually. It’s not the ONLY reason Eccleston left, but it was stated it was part of the issue by many insider sources. At the time it was chalked up to rumors, but it’s looking more and more likely that it was more credible than originally thought.

the stuff about john isn't new i heard eve miles joking about it at an event. for me it would be a problem if it made the people he worked with uncomfortable and he continued to do it but so far i have not heard that.

@ArielVHarloff

3 жыл бұрын

Do you mind telling me what's even going on with John Borrowman? I completely missed that thanks if you do no worries if you're busy. Just asking cause you seem like you know what's going on :)

@somthingbrutal

3 жыл бұрын

@@ArielVHarloff all i have heard seems to be about his time on dr who and torchwood and him flashing people for comedic effect unless something new has popped up

@ian1585

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, but what if those people are only joking about it because everybody else is? They would be seen as somebody who can't take a joke. I have definitely laughed at situations that I felt uncomfortable in but never owned up to it because everyone else around me found it funny; even if it's at my expense.

The script for behavior was radically different 20 years ago. I have trouble holding people as accountable for acting under today's social script when he was just being provocative by that day's standards. Had he done something really transgressive and harmful that would be a different story, I don't think this is.

Thank you for making this video, a reasoned argument is what this situation needs

Nina Touissant White, who played Mels( young River Song) tweeted she was Noel Clarke' s 21st victim.

@rikititi1848

3 жыл бұрын

Shit

I read about Noel the other day. I honestly had no idea about any of this with John. I'm tired of all the fandoms being tarnished.

goddammit. i had no idea. thank you for talking about this.

There's a world of difference between the two situations. Frankly, I was surprised nobody was saying anything about Barrowman when the MeToo movement was laying waste to everyone on the planet like some kind of Virtue-Nuke. David Tennant talked about it on Graham Norton after Norton brought it up (this is the man who made Benedict Cumberbatch read Sherlock slash fiction during an episode so I'm not surprised he knew all about Barrowman's surprise kielbasa shows). He did the same thing while shooting the first two series of TORCHWOOD. It wasn't a scandal because it was never a secret and it's also not unusual on film & TV sets. He eventually stopped doing it because he'd gotten all the humor value out of it. By the time the Radio 1 incident happened, he hadn't done it for a while. He only unzipped on the radio because the hosts practically begged him to do it. It's not like he's hanging around playgrounds in a raincoat and flashing 5 year-olds. Back during my time working with DOCTOR WHO (roughly 1978 to the end of the original series), there were some incidents involving fans and people working on the show (I'm not just referring to the JNT/Gary Downie allegations) that most of us knew about. Some were kind of benign while others could (should have) faced charges. I'm kind of surprised none of those have popped up yet, either.

@jasonbolding3481

3 жыл бұрын

why would someone had said something during meToo height? As far as i know no one has ever complained and basically everyone talks about it. David Tennant even sings about it

@akakjb

3 жыл бұрын

@@jasonbolding3481 I'm very aware of that but there's usually one person who will decide to make something like that their public pearl clutching moment. The fact that no one EVER complained kinda says it all, AFAIC.

Don't watch Miracle Day. Nothing about John Barrowman, it's just... Bad. The worst thing about Noel Clarke is that he was attached to some good causes which may now suffer. He's been involved with the campaign for accountability/compensation forbthe Grenfell Tower disaster and campaigning for more and better roles for black actors in Britain. Some people might use this scandal as an excuse to sideline some causes which still deserve the spotlight.

I'm just guessing but what Noel Clarke has done Is gonna follow him around for a very very very very very long time

Can I just pay you a compliment for this really good and fair (and also very well researched) argumentation?!

I always appreciate your well-rounded takes so much! Acknowledging all angles and sides to the story. Clarifying your feelings vs. objective fact. This video is the first I'm hearing of the Noel story, and I immediately clicked on it because I knew I'd get a really thorough examination of everything, and I wasn't disappointed in the slightest!

Everyone please read the guardian article to truly understand and feel the extent of how awful Noel Clarke is. And I say it because it's 20 people who can cross corroborate each others stories over many decades. It's also important to note that hes not just Mickey from Doctor Who, he is or was one of Britain's most celebrated and important figures in its film industry. Especially for the work he created to break boundaries for people of colour and from working class backgrounds. It's genuinely a massive tragedy on so many levels and not just "side character actor from doctor who ages ago may or may not have done bad things", not saying that's what you've said in the video, I just realise many people likely only follow doctor who related things which is fair enough. The John Barrowman thing we knew about although that's not to say it isn't worth discussing at any point in time and late is better than never. The fact is he has had this criticism leveled at him and we've all known about it and been just as bad as his co stars and gone aaah what a joker! He's so cheeky! I don't believe him indecently exposing himself was at any point a sexually motivated act or a predatorial one and but it is still inappropriate and a disgusting act. I think the James Gunn comparison is somewhat apt although I think this is worse given that James Gunns jokes were words often with targets that it can be argued were either demeaning of sexual assault victims or of people who commit sexual assaults. I fell on the latter side, it seemed to me even if the jokes weren't funny then the target was the perpetrator and not the victim. That being said they are words, they're interpretive and I wouldn't fault anyone for being offended by them and find them harmful. Barrowman's actions are less interpretive as they were physical actions. Barrowman indecently exposed himself on numerous occasions. There's no denying that and that is a crime. It could have implications on so many people on that set. I would think pretty much everyone would be uncomfortable and there's no guarantee that it might not have caused any trauma to anyone or triggered any trauma in anyone on set due to past events in their lives. I don't think John is a villain, just really dam inconsiderate and selfish who's actions could have larger implications than any of us have really given thought to and we should be. He has apologised and it seems as though it is not an ongoing issue and hasn't been for a while. I think that it's wonderful that he's such a big figure in the doctor who fandom and convention community as an LGBTQ+ identifying man in the midst of an otherwise not particularly diverse show in that regard. I think he does a tonne of good for the show and the fans currently and that he regrets his actions and I personally am content with moving forwards with him within it while still holding him accountable for his past.

@siginotmylastname3969

3 жыл бұрын

The james gunn comparison isn't apt around sexual jokes because he was sexually abused himself and described them as coping mechanisms. When it comes to bigotry, then it's a fair comparison, but with this it's absolutely not!

If they do decide to not bring back John I do hope they give Captain Jack a good ending in the series since he's one of the better characters .

Thank you for posting this, I was so confused, because a week or so ago give or take a day or two, I had posted a silly cast and crew video of David Tennant and the gang singing and dancing along to 500 Miles in one of the Doctor Who groups I am in on facebook. Somone made a comment saying its a shame about Noel Clark but then when I asked what they were talking about would not answer. So now I am no longer confused thanks to your video. I live under a preverbal rock lately, nothing but work and sleep lol.

Not saying it's not stupid and can make people uncomfortable to expose yourself spontaneously, but I'm so relieved that John Barrowman did not assault anyone. That would honestly have killed a small part of me.

@jenzabel

3 жыл бұрын

I don't know if having someone take his genitals and whack me with it or rest it on my shoulder at my plAce of business well I'm thinking that's assault! That said, I'm a huge fan myself and it's definitely a different kind of sexual complaint.

Having met and worked with John Barrowman a few times, I also am more inclined to be biased in favour of giving him some benefit of the doubt. I will say that, from my (admittedly brief) experiences with the guy, he naturally has an immature sense of humour. I'm not saying it's okay to whip out your junk in public nor that "it's just a joke" is necessarily an excuse for that kind of behaviour, but I'm personally more inclined to believe that it genuinely wasn't intended to be taken as anything other than a joke - a very childish joke but one with (at least on his part) completely non-threatening intent. He's very uninhibited and, as with a lot of uninhibited people, has always struck me as the kind of person that just assumes everyone is generally always on the same comfort level as him (sort of like how extroverts tend to generally assume everyone else in any given setting is also extroverted). For me personally, it's enough that he has previously acknowledged the behaviour as immature and inappropriate and, in my experience and others I know who have worked with him, hasn't done it since the radio incident. (ETA: Barrowman's tendencies towards this kind of behaviour have been pretty much an open secret within the industry for close on two decades at this point and I honestly can't recall an instance where someone who was witness to it was overly bothered by it - at least to the point of speaking up about feeling threatened or offended either during or after the fact - which indicates that general opinion of those who were there at the time was to treat it in the spirit of which it was intended - i.e. as an immature childish joke). Noel Clarke (if the accusations are true) clearly behaved in a much more predatory manner and in a manner that more clearly abused his position as a person of power.

@ftumschk

3 жыл бұрын

_"Noel Clarke (if the accusations are true) clearly behaved... in a manner that more clearly abused his position as a person of power."_ Agreed, which is why I'd be surprised if Clarke behaved like this in a Doctor Who context, being - as he then was - one supporting actor among many, and a small fish in a big pond.

@overlydramaticpanda

3 жыл бұрын

@@ftumschk Not knowing much about the timelines of the accusations against Clarke, I'm inclined to agree. As far as I know, Doctor Who was one of his first major roles as an actor ("major" being a relative term regarding his career given Mickey was, especially to begin with, a minor supporting role); if someone in that context did the things he's been accused of, they'd be called out for it at the time with very little hesitation. I'm willing to bet that Doctor Who provided the launchpad to give him the opportunity to behave in the manner he's being accused of, but I doubt it's like Joss Whedon and Buffy/Angel where this behaviour was taking place on that particular set.

I knew the stuff about Noel, but I had NO idea about John! Honestly, he's the one I'm more sad about, as I was more a fan of Jack than Mickey. Either way, it's bad with both though.

@alternatethirteenth5594

3 жыл бұрын

Yea I'm more a fan of Jack also. It's very much harder with Barrowman as I still rlly like Jack but not Barrowman much anymore

@marocat4749

3 жыл бұрын

I know on production he can be very childish, and , that, which is why its sad, if the stuff were encouraged to speak out against concerns he might just stopped. i hope it that gets tainted, fo the sake of makng a sance on the encouraged staying shut up of feeling harassed and unsafe.,for anyone indepndent if they are favourites. That is a breeding ground for, i just want that practice to stop and awareness to the conditions leading to all that. I think blaming people alone is a way out to excuse the unsafe tegulations and blacklisting people for speaking out openly. Or fired for There need to be better indiustry standards to encourage speaking out people feeling unsafe dammit. And that its a problem. Borrowman is yeah, if he doresnt make any good case he changed, yeah, but there were so many allegations, that its clear, its systemic. The toicity and keeping people from expressing anything against yeah. Its a bigger problem than some people abusing power,its the system encouraging that.

I have absolutely no idea how to phrase this in a way that will not offend anyone, but please note that is definitely not my intention. English is just not my first language, and also I SUCK at being politically correct in my wording. I was actually kind of expecting Barrowman to be ancelled at some point. While I do love his charisma and general vibe, he did show off some questionable behaviour at conventions and cast tours. After DW finished and Torchwood ended, he went on to do Arrow, where he was featured in a supporting role, eventually joining the recurring cast., and then becoming a series regular for a while. He showed off at Comic Con, etc with the whole cast, and you could say that some of those people in his cast seemed like they were not really comfortable around him. Now, I don't take this as evidence for anything per se, but in my opinion I think (and this is where I may get in trouble for my wording) he got away with a lot more weird things than your regular straight white guy would. Because of his almost "comically" or... stereotypically IDK... very loud gay energy? Not saying all gays act like this, but this is a type that shows up every now and then in pop culture. Sorry guys, I REALLY do not know how to phrase it. He constantly made comments about his male co-stars (Arrow being a The CW show, it had a lot of shirtless fit guys) and after a while he just seemed to make people uncomfortable around him. But he got away with it because of the steretype that he kind of embodied. And in my opinion, (this is kind of off topic) he is no the only gay celeb getting away with a lot of things that straights would not, and this is coming from me as a bi-sexual woman. For example Queer Eye's Tan France kept droooling all over Shawn Mendes 3-4 years ago, when he was still very young, and made explicit comments about him. If that was a straight guy thirsting over a 19 year old woman, the internet would blow up. tl;dr: Noel Clarke is Trash.

@ftumschk

3 жыл бұрын

You put that very well, and I think you make a good point.

I think about the pranks pulled on the Supernatural set sometimes, broomsticks in crotches and so on. It's so difficult to know where to draw the line when noone has come out to put their foot down. How many of these antics are okay with the cast and how many are not?

I think that when it comes to John Barrowman the seriousness of the accusations should be linked with how effected the accusers are. From my research they seemed to find it funny however I’m not recommending that it’s funny to do what he did. If any of the accusers felt threatened or harmed I’m sure they would have mentioned it. So I think it’s really none of anyone’s business to cancel him for something the accuser was supposedly not even effected by.

You said Noel Clarke filmed a young actress’s audition, does it mention if she was a minor at the time? I haven’t seen this accusation before and I’m interested to know. Thank you so much for making this video 💕

@CouncilofGeeks

3 жыл бұрын

No, she was in her early 20s just out of university.

@adampeacock8867

3 жыл бұрын

I think the audition in question was more along the lines of, NC saying "I am not going to film this", whilst he was actually recording without her knowledge.

@KatzePiano

3 жыл бұрын

@@adampeacock8867 He also shared it with other people. Quote from the guardian article below: Powell says Clarke once showed her a secretly recorded video of one such audition with Jahannah James, an actor in Brotherhood. Powell told four people about Clarke’s alleged secret filming, all of whom confirmed the conversation to the Guardian. They include James, her friend, whom she told about the incident in the winter of 2017, in a pub in south London. The naked audition had taken place more than four years previously, for the film Legacy. Powell was able to describe the exact haircut James had at that time - her hair is usually long and blond, but after a “hair disaster” she had cropped it short and returned to her natural brown. James recalls Clarke had talked her into auditioning for the role. She had been hesitant. She was only 23 and fresh out of drama school. But Clarke persuaded her, explaining that the naked audition wouldn’t be filmed; an email from her agent confirmed this agreement. “I was told 100% it was not going to be on camera,” James says. As she understood it, the naked audition was purely to check she could do the scene and wasn’t going to “bottle it” on the day. The audition was mortifying, James recalls, and afterwards she pulled out of the running for the role; she didn’t want one of her first acting jobs to be nude. The Guardian spoke to two friends of Powell and James who were also present in the pub that day and recalled the emotional exchange. “I was so upset,” James recalls. “Now, years later, I still cry when I talk about it.”

@dxctr_master

3 жыл бұрын

@@CouncilofGeeks ah thank you for taking the time to respond 💕

@dxctr_master

3 жыл бұрын

@@KatzePianothat’s absolutely disgusting he did that- hopefully with everything coming out things can change

Is the this the thing you mentioned in the update video, that you wanted to discuss while it was topical?

Stolen earth/ journys end is my absolute favorite episodes of dr who. I watch it by itself all the time. There's just no way I can walk away from that one. And it really sucks because rose is my all time favorite companion which means in order to avoid him I have to avoid her. The actor who played Jake doesn't bother me

@ace90200

3 жыл бұрын

Innocent till proven guilty right? Not saying I do not believe he did that but stil.

@jameskilgour387

3 жыл бұрын

@@ace90200 in the court of law, not public opinion. It's up to the public to make their mind up based on the current evidence and 20 women is extremely damning.

@ace90200

3 жыл бұрын

@@jameskilgour387 yep good point. I hope the truth comes to light

There’s a picture of Billie Piper putting her hands down John Barrowman’s trousers and images of both Eve Myles and Barrowman messing around during the filming of Children of Earth. As someone who has a friend who has worked closely with Eve, she has nothing but good things to say about JB. When he was in the I’m a Celeb jungle he was respectful to all the campmates and people were actually surprised that there wasn’t any silly behaviour. Yes if he acted like that now, if would be inappropriate but what’s wrong is calling Eve, Camille, Anette Badland, etc etc victims, as I’ve seen on Twitter, when none of these women have made complaints. I even saw people on Twitter, saying Catherine Tate, Billie and David Tennant were complacent in the behaviour! What people also forget, is the people at comic con who go up to JB and ask HIM to grope THEM. I’ve always found that very odd. Like why.

@cherylemmanuel744

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, John conducted himself really well in the jungle - I kind of fell in love with him again then. I think if he really was awful that stressful environment would have shown it up! I am so angry and sad for him. He loves conventions and I am sure he'd be heartbroken if it dried up. He has said he's sorry for God's sake and I believe him.

The fact that these two guys are being discussed at the same time is grossly unfair. The Clarke accusations sound felonious. Also the number of accusations make it sound like this guy is a serial preditor. The Barrowman accusations sound like a stupid, inappropriate workplace violation. Given that Barrowman's actions were so long ago and that he has apologized, we should move on.

And this all came out just as John Barrowman was filming scenes for the Doctor Who interactive attraction Time Fracture. Wonder if those'll be cut. I think it's probably pretty late in the process, it might be hard to do(even if replaced with another actor), at least without it being super noticeable.

Me, not a Dr. Who fan, having no idea what happened/what this is about, now 😬

So one was kindof a frat boy when he was younger and the other was like the predator you kick out of a bar. Not really comparable things. Especially since its common knowledge I'm Barrowman's case.

I think it's harsh to cancel all of Barrowman's upcoming projects because of something he did years ago that most people obviously knew about and he has apologised for. Plus it was never meant to be harassing or malicious.

@CouncilofGeeks

3 жыл бұрын

I’m admittedly rather mixed and jumbled about seeing him removed from planned projects, I talked about that a bit on the last livestream.

I find your videos well thought out, clearly delivered and interesting.

Well, there is one real excuse. UK humor used to often include nudity on TV. So seeing someone from the entertainment industry behave that way is what I would expect, if they saw their cast and crew as friends/family to goof around with. Things changed. He changed. Seems all good to me.

I hope that if Doctor Who ever brings back Martha, that they mention in passing that she is single/is involved with someone other than Mickey. I never liked that these two characters were paired off before this became known because I felt they had nothing in common besides the Doctor.

@benjalucian1515

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!! I also wondered why they were paired off. Martha was an intelligent doctor! Mickey was a blue collar truck driver. What in the world would they base a marriage on? Obviously only shared experiences with the doctor. That would not make a marriage last.

@LindaDanvers

3 жыл бұрын

If that was the reason, then that is rather... at least two unfortunate things but mostly short-sighted. Them just being colleagues which was already a stretch would have been better.

@nekusakura6748

3 жыл бұрын

That and her also saying that Mickey Died offscreen...

@alanpennie8013

3 жыл бұрын

@@benjalucian1515 Heavens. I'd forgotten they were. How improbable and random.

This was really well explained and reasoned. Thank you. I’m now a new subscriber.

Thanks for a nuanced look at both cases!

John was a very open to showing his body person he admits this. But he even admitted himself he only had two people upset at his actions. He then personally apologised to them and asked if anything could be done for them as compensation. But from what I heard this behaviour would get slowly more risque with each group ALWAYS with ADULTS in age and intelligence.

I’m still probably gonna be fine watching episodes with the both of them, personally. Mickey really was never a big draw for me, heck, a few of them I only watch because they’re important to me, Rose for instance, or Journey’s End where he did pretty much nothing and I only ever watch because The Stolen Earth is good. For Jack Harkness, it would probably put more meaning to Bad Wolf. It’s no secret that Series 1’s on-set atmosphere wasn’t exactly pleasant for all involved. Jack Harkness is still one of my favourite on the show.

Very glad you focused on the onset issues of Doctor Who during RTD's era! Though the BBC is definitely a monster haha

I had no clue what was happening just that something was and in glad you got me up to speed