Chung Do Kwon was my first style. I began in 1968 in Indianapolis and Chicago. Sung Muk Ko was my head instructor. Looking back,. I didn't appreciate how skilled he really was. My black belt certificate from him had the Ji Do Kwon emblem on it. After that in Indianapolis, I joined a Tracy's Karate school, but the head instructor was actually Kang Duk Won from the West coast of the US. His instructor was Bob Babich who learned from a KDW Korean man as well as Babich having a BB from Mas Oyama in Kyokushin.

Yes a style doesn't have to be ancient to be effective or useful for health.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

5 жыл бұрын

Viejo Tronco you’re quite right :-) Now I hope I did make it clear that Modern Taekwondo does have older roots (just not the 2000 year myth) :-)

@allopez8563

5 жыл бұрын

Agreed. No natural modern martial art I believe can be beyond the 16th or 17th century. Maybe the Hindu ones? But still I would doubt that. By natural I mean the ones that survived by itself passed from teacher to student with out historical research or institutional involvement.

An excellent video sir. It is interesting that there were two KTAs. The first one didn't last though but was replaced by the one that we know of today. Also for a brief period, Taekwondo had a different name; Tae Soo Do. When General Choi returned from Malaysia he petitioned the KTA to change the name of the art back to Taekwondo

@NXG_HQ

3 ай бұрын

It is very unique to see the changes made to history as if there wasn't a world full of people present to watch what happened between the 50's and the 70's. Craziness

Very helpful summary. Thank you!

This was excellent.

Excellent video! On a side note, you sound exactly like the character Dr Poha from ghostbusters 2

very well done 👍🏻

Very good 👍 job!

As you also know the Oh Do Kwan was for a long time "almost dead" in Korea. But now "back again" as an organization..

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

5 жыл бұрын

Edward H. Valholm true, but the same could be said about many of the Kwan. After 1975 when they were officially abolished they continued as social clubs, but with the weakening of the Kukkiwon several Kwan seems to be on a path of resurgence(but still just beginning)

Hwang Kee also claims that he studied Kata out of books he found in the rail way library. He has never claimed that he studied at the Chung do Kwan. Many of the early karate styles were and are still very effective. The reason that Won Kuk Lee and others elected to use the names Tang Soo and Kong Soo, is it was written the same way as Karate and the people knew what that was. I still practice early Korean Karate. The early forms have great hand techniques that have lost to later TKD. Gen Choi did did have a shodan in Karate I was told, but his high ranking Dan grade was honorary and was from Won Kuk Lee.

Apologies for this trite question, but do you have any recommendations regarding books or articles on taekwondo history? Thanks.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

A modern history of Taekwondo by Kang and Lee, Taekwondo a killing art by Alex Gillis and you can search for “storming the fortress” by Eric Madis. Those will be good resources to start with :-)

@justinmattos9726

2 жыл бұрын

@@traditionaltaekwondoramblings Thanks!

@NXG_HQ

3 ай бұрын

@@justinmattos9726 I firmly second "A Killing Art" have met the author several times, and sat in on some of his interviews with pioneers mentioned and interviewed for the book.

@randallkennedy3153

18 күн бұрын

Korean Karate: The Art of The Kwon Do by Duk Sung Son.

Wasn't Chun Sang Sup also a Judo black belt or sensei as well? Also, he cross trained so much with the CHang Moo Kwan guy right? And he also knew chinese martial arts with him by cross training. Is this correct? I also thought the chuan fa styles they knew were also Bajiquan. And what is Ju An Pa? or that one other style mentioned in modern history of taekwondo?

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

4 жыл бұрын

MaharlikaAWA I have been told in a PM that he was indeed a Judo black belt, but I don’t have anything I would call a valid source for the claim (only a pm by someone I respect). He trained a lot with Yun Byung In who was well versed in Chinese Martial Arts. Unfortunately both men disappeared in the Korean War (1950-1953), so they didn’t have much time teaching all they knew. As Yun Mu Kwan opened in the mid 1940s we’re talking about a 5-6 year transmission of knowledge before they disappeared :-/ Yun Byung In was an assistant instructor around 2 years in the Yun Mu Kwan before opening his own school. Palkikwon is often translated as Bajiquan but t appears as one of the forms listed in the 1962 joint black belt gradings and not as a separate martial art. I don’t know for sure what that entails. Joo An Pa is a generic term for Chinese martial arts which is why it is difficult to pinpoint which Chinese martial arts Yun Byung In taught :-)

@MaharlikaAWA

4 жыл бұрын

@@traditionaltaekwondoramblings What it means is that Taekwondo originally had a fighting technique mindset which it lacks today. We have to bring it back.

Good info and knowledge, but the single tone does make it difficult to follow for a video of this length

I was too distorted to follow WTF TKD than the ITF TKD I was a practitioneer before at WTF Systems and I made it my first defense but awfully did not conscripting the standard WT(F) systems one but either I conscripted by fighting defense at Pananjakman or even at better pinnacles the JKD by Bruce Lee, either I am embarrassed or not but my faculty were more than the self-defense oriented than the sports oriented conformities

@scarred10

10 ай бұрын

That isnt English

Nice to meet you Master. I am a person practicing taekwondo in Japan. I am interested in the history of taekwondo. I also uploaded a video about the history of taekwondo in Japanese. Many Japanese misunderstand the history of taekwondo. The cause is a bad impression of South Korea. What I want to know is the truth. Your video was very useful and very educational to me. Thank you very much.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

3 жыл бұрын

Very happy you liked it :-) Thanks for commenting 🤗

@doriangray92

2 жыл бұрын

Karate kicks came from Savate. Taekwondo came from Karate. Taekkyon is a false myth. That is all.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@doriangray92 did you even see the video? :-)

Most Korean martial arts have Japanese origins.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

4 жыл бұрын

My Weight Loss Journey you did see the video right? 😅

@cc1426

2 жыл бұрын

In the case of tkd its tai chi Quan fa and shotokan mixed with soo bak do.

@rodneypiper1066

2 жыл бұрын

Please consider expanding your statement. Karate origins are from China, and did NOT originate from Japan. Independent OKINAWA, the source of Karate was NOT a Japanese province. Much of Japanese civilized culture originated from Korea. After 35 yrs of occupation and oppression, TKD was born from oppression. Korea was a peaceful nation, learned the need for their own martial art to prevent future incursion from Japan. Koreans used Japanese arts as a base and made it more painful. World Taekwondo is an exception, it's very useless and is NOT Taekwon-Do, in its original form. I do not see any embarrassment in this origin.

@nahi27

2 жыл бұрын

kendo and jiu jitsu have korean origins though.

@Lee7676

Жыл бұрын

Yes if you see any Korean martial arts who doesn’t wear shoes their original art is Japanese. Traditional Korean culture always were shoes.bear foot is a disrespectful

I like u master

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

5 жыл бұрын

MD JAHID TKD 🙏thank you :-)

The Kukkiwon guy told me that Choi didnt even get a real black belt in Karate. So it would mean he lied about it.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

4 жыл бұрын

MaharlikaAWA None of the KMA pioneers have produced any Dan certificates from Japan as far as I know. Yun Byung In and Yun Kwae Byung are both listed as instructors of Karate in one of Toyama Kanken’s books but that is all. The two most disputed ranks are the two most politically disputed people (Choi Hong Hi and Hwang Kee). I don’t see that as a coincidence. Like I said in the video it is difficult to say what rank he had and it is difficult to pinpoint an instructor, but we do know he taught karate while living in Japan so I don’t think it is far fetched that he indeed had a dan rank. Also he wrote a textbook in 1959 which is as good a resource as any other at the time, and unlike the later works (1965, 1966, 1972 and onward) the 1959 book was written by himself. So in short he did not provide documentation for a rank in Karate, but neither did anyone else. Politically he is the one most often attacked, while most others gets a free pass on the very same issue. If we make the demand of documentation and don’t bother looking at his works we should apply this standard to all Kwan founders, not just this one. No one will do that though because they would all fail :-) The Dan ranks I provide is based on the research of others (most often Eric Madis, but also Udo Muenig, George Vitale and others). Hope that helps :-)

@MaharlikaAWA

4 жыл бұрын

@@traditionaltaekwondoramblings witnesses help. Where are Chois witnesses of his black belt promotions? Nobody at the time questioned a 4th or 5th dan from Kanken bc they could prove it in skill infront of them.

@moominpic

2 жыл бұрын

Like a Kukkiwon guy would say anything positive about Choi.

@MaharlikaAWA

2 жыл бұрын

@@moominpic Believe it or not they respect him for some of the early stages of Taekwondo and give him what credit he is due even though they do not like him necessarily. They were very fair in their discussion of what he did.

@Rob-lw1uw

3 ай бұрын

His black belt was honorary by Won Kuk Lee.

What about Grandmaster Duk Sung Son????

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 ай бұрын

This video focuses on the founders of the different Kwan and the major international organisations. While Son Duk Song was a great man (and authored some great books) he was not a founder of a Kwan (he was the second kwanjangnim of Chung Do Kwan) and he was not to my knowledge a key player in the founding of the orgs either. If I had or will make a follow up to this video, or a video focusing on Chung Do Kwan alone I’d talk a lot about him for sure, but in a short video summarising all the major Kwan and development of taekwondo? Not so much. Sorry if you didn’t like the video because of this, feel free to complain :-)

@randallkennedy3153

18 күн бұрын

Master Son's book, "Korean Karate: The Art of The Kwon Do,", was the "textbook" used by my own instructor, Dick Worcester, who was a student of Master Son during the Korean War. I still have a copy, along with the follow up text, "Black Belt Korean Karate." Both are essential reading for anyone interested in the traditional style of TKD.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

17 күн бұрын

@@randallkennedy3153 I agree :-) I have both books as well and they are a great snapshot of traditional taekwondo :-)

Your forgetting byung in yun came before lee

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

How is that? If you are takling about opening their own schools Lee opened his in 1944, while Yun Byung In started out as an assistant instructor at Chun Sang Sup’s school first before opening his own school a good while later. I did cover this in the video, which I assume you didn’t watch 😇 If you’re talking about rank as in Yun having a higher rank than Lee then I might not have been clear on that in the video, but I assume Yun had a higher rank than Lee did.

@cc1426

2 жыл бұрын

@@traditionaltaekwondoramblings byung in yun was a tai chi Quan fa student who upon returning from China to Korea ended up fending off five karate students using the tai chi Quan fa blocking system that we still use in tkd to this day. Those karate students ran back to their master and told them about yun. The master met with yun and after exchanging ideas and yun learning karate created Chung moo kwon. Then came Lee who was the first Chung moo kwon instructor and helped modernize and structure tkd. Yun was the grandmaster, Lee was was an entire generation later than Yun. Your talking about my schools lineage. Go to powells tkd in Concord and look up the lineages section on their home page. If I'm wrong than our whole school is wrong all the way back to the 1920s. Lol

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@cc1426 I had to skip that story due to time constrains. As I said in the introduction I tried to keep it short, but I want to make longer videos on each school later. I just haven’t gotten around to it. May I ask what is your source that he studied tai chi? According to Grandmaster Kim Soo who has done extensive studies on Yun he never specified the style of Chinese martial arts that he studied, instead referring to it with generic terms such as joo an pa (Korean for quanfa). The studies of chinese martial arts, the study with Toyama Kandinsky, the helping teaching at Yun Mu Kwan with Chun Sang Sup and the founding of his own school is all there in the video.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@cc1426 you might be mixing Lee Nam Suk who took over Chang Mu Kwan after the Korean War and Lee Won Kuk. I don’t mention Lee Nam Suk in the video I think. Again because I’m trying to keep it short and sweet focusing on the founders and their roots.

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@cc1426 we have a Chang Mu Kwan founded by Yun Byung In and we have a Chung Do Kwan founded by Lee Won Kuk. To my knowledge we don’t have any Chung Mu Kwan anywhere? Are you mixing two Kwan together? Is that where the confusion comes from?

Was taekwondo originally created for fighting and self defense??that’s my big question.

@MarinhoRFilho

10 ай бұрын

Yes. Taekwondo is a martial art with a series of techniques developed for self defense (hoshinsul) and full contact combat. Sports training (kyourugui) is just one of the dimensions of taekwondo that ended up gaining prominence over the years, mainly with the modality's entry into the Olympic program.

You miss the part where Gen Choi was a 2 star general and was showing off Tae Kwon-Do around the world . He picked the name Tae Keon-Do, as he was on the board tasked with picking the name. He wasn’t difficult, the WTF was formed because the Korean dictator didn’t like Choi taking Tae Kwon-Do to North Korea. It was like him trading weapons with the enemy. WTF is not Tae Kwon-Do, but it is a Korean martial art with roots that go back centuries.

@georgeunk6762

2 ай бұрын

No, this is simply not accurate. Gen. Choi fled to Canada to escape political persecution from the military dictator he opposed. This was 1972. Gen. Choi did not bring his Taekwon-Do to north Korea until 1980. This had nothing to do with the reason he fled south Korea.

At all

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for clarifying that. For a moment I thought you meant it could be used a little, but now I know it was completely useless in the UFC 👍🏻

Tratidal teakwondo can't be use ufc

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

Luckily it was NEVER developed for use in the UFC 😂 I just don’t get why you would bother using time you will never regain to make such an “observation”. Come to think of it I don’t get why I even bothered to answer this comment 😂 You’ll likely not hear anything more from me :-)

@StevieSouthOfficial

2 жыл бұрын

There are MANY black belts in MMA and the UFC that would COMPLETELY disagree.

@StevieSouthOfficial

2 жыл бұрын

Certain elements have to be adapted, duh. It was a system meant to kill, maim, and injure. It was pressure tested & revised in the Vietnam war. The Tiger Division were at the forefront of such efforts. Your ignorance & arrogance is embarrassing. You couldnt even spell Traditional correctly. I suggest you read Part 1 & Part 2 of this article. Then go sit tf down somewhere blackbeltmag.com/taekwondo-history-the-tiger-division-

@traditionaltaekwondoramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@StevieSouthOfficial it was probably a drunken troll comment so I wouldn’t put much energy into answering him 😂👍🏻 but thanks for the link.

The art changed name to taekwondo in 1955, but it existed before that under the name tang soo do. And the art has its roots in taekyon which is very old. As well as early japanese shotokan karate. Which in itself can trace its roots back to the shaolin temple hundreds of years ago. No technique in taekwondo is "new", they are all extremly old. Taekwondo is NOT a modern art.

@kirkstonebotanicalsforgrow5424

10 ай бұрын

Incorrect.

@scarred10

10 ай бұрын

Tang soo do was just shotokan as was all tkd,it had nothing to do with any older Korean arts

@kirkstonebotanicalsforgrow5424

10 ай бұрын

@@scarred10 correct - as was explained in the video. All the founding ‘Masters’ of KMA either trained directly with Funakoshi OR were directly influenced by him. Even now you can see the Tang Soo hyungs are identical to Shotokans, the five Heian, the Taikyoku, Kushanku and Tekki, all there…

@THEMARTIALARTSCHANNEL-bb4fx

10 ай бұрын

@@scarred10 Are you for real? My korean teachers would turn in their graves if they heard that wikipedia bullsjit 🤣🤣🤣

@scarred10

10 ай бұрын

@@THEMARTIALARTSCHANNEL-bb4fx it's the truth,theres no evidence for anything other than karate in tkd.

I would’ve liked Mr Nam Tae Hi (General) to have had a higher profile as I believe it was he who actually put the ‘technical’ parts of the ITF curriculum together for General Choi because he was busy politicking?

@supershooter20

3 ай бұрын

Yes, my master was a captain under General Choi. He also said Nam Tae-hi was the one mainly responsible for Oh-do Kwan.

Gen Choi a nidan in watered down shotokan . Got off the boat in korea and magically became a 10th and founder of tkd. Other korean arts are just that, has nothing to do with tkd which has taken the fight out of the martial arts and now a black belt means nothing.

@scarred10

10 ай бұрын

There is no 10th Dan in TKD gen Choi gave himself a 9th dan as he was the head instructor of the newly named style just as every founder does.Only organizations outside the ITF use a 10th Dan.

@Aridzonia1

10 ай бұрын

@@scarred10 Legitimately, he was never more than a nidan in a watered down system

@halfbeat7415

Ай бұрын

@@Aridzonia1 if you create a martial art then you are a master, like every first master of okinawan karate that cames from china. by your logic karatekas are nothing more than watered down kung fu

@Aridzonia1

Ай бұрын

@@halfbeat7415 No but choi didn’t have enough knowledge to found an art. Most organizations require 2 fifth dans or at the very least one

@halfbeat7415

19 күн бұрын

@@Aridzonia1 Yeah but that's an actual requirement I think and karate master back then didn't have high Dan in kung fu either (sorry for my fk up english lol)