As an LDS woman, I am happy that my husband has a unique religious responsibility that I don’t have (Although, I share it, in many ways.) I think it tethers him to Christ and the Gospel, whereas women are (generally) more spiritually minded, naturally, and are tethered by their roles as mothers and bearers of children. It is a difference in our God-given makeup. I have no desire either to take that role away from my husband or have it myself, especially since it is beneficial to me and our family in such that it promotes and encourages him to be spiritually active and engaged. It is one of the only messages left that tell men they are important and relevant in this world, and they have a unique and vital role to play in the gospel. It is a message I value as the mother of 4 boys, who can easily get the idea that men are not valued by our society.

I'm lds - having re-thought a lot of things over the past few years, I really don't have a problem with women holding the priesthood. Whether it'll happen soon , or ever - I don't know. But if they announced it tomorrow, I'd be fine with it. However, of all the women I know, only a couple have ever expressed the desire - most women don't want it, they've got enough to do ! And for some men also, it's a thing that's expected of them rather than something they seek. Something I've believed for a long time is that it's a foolish priesthood leader who doesn't listen to the sisters.

Rick, it is fun to watch you have so much energy in the conversation, this has been an amazing interview and very informative. I find his predictions interesting, because I can just hear the orthodoxy reeling with "that will never happen" comments. Kind of wonder how many people said that same kind of thing about ordaining black people back in the day....and look where we are. It will be interesting to see what happens. It depends on who you talk to, but I know an increasing number of women that can't reconcile the church's words about women and their actions surrounding women.

From information I've been looking at, the numbers of those leaving progressive Christian churches is greater than those who are more conservative. Our church in my estimation has leaned further left than it should and that's raised concerns from more conservative members. One could argue that churches taking a more liberal stance can have immediate shoots of growth but those numbers are not sustainable. I've noticed that the conversation about granting women the priesthood is about what the leaders would do as opposed to revelation from God.

It wont

Rick by the way don’t take my comments as critical of you, I just think your progressive prospective is interesting and overtime those who see Themselves as progressive Mormons are way too confident in their views becoming to pass. I love your program, your style is excellent.

I’m a woman in the LDS church in Australia, most women in the church don’t want the priesthood, and those who do are women who think that it makes them more important, but that is not how the priesthood works. And a lot of people especially outside the church don’t understand the priesthood and how it works. Women in the church are equal to the men, we have our own organisation and we are just as important and sometimes the men even talk as if we’re more important, but we are equal.

I believe men holding the priesthood is a beautiful way to build relationships with family. I personally love that a husband, son, brother, father, uncle, can bless their family. Men and women have a great responsibility in the home and so many times with mom being in charge of children, we become overwhelmed and overly emotional, sometimes making things bigger than they are. Women are naturally nurturing, comforting. Men struggle with that, they're fixers. I believe the priesthood is one way men can be a comfort to their families. I love that I can look to the priesthood holder in my home for comfort and peace when needed. Women don't need to do everything!! We need to stop with the mentality that the women have to have it all, even more than the men. Not healthy one bit

@GospelTangents

5 ай бұрын

I would encourage you to attend a Community of Christ service where a woman serves as pastor, or meet a sister apostle from their church. I think you would be impressed.

I'd argue against the church losing people mostly or by majority on political factors, i.e. - trans, LGTBQ, race, etc.. These things have been divisive all over the States (despite 3rd world countries looking at these issues as preposterous). I know gays that despise the LGTBQ political movement and care a lot about the church, but struggle to find their place in it. If you study that culture movement, you'll find it's generally very divisive in many aspects. But yes, he has some good points. The church at large will always have to modernize. How this plays out is a good question. I don't know if I would assume that they'll just embrace trans practices. That's a lot different than race...it involves terrible bio and psycho processes that mutilate the body and mind. Robert Barron has the best views on this issue, I think. Most young people leave the established church because they don't find it compelling intellectually and spiritually. We're very disconnected from symbolism and mysticism, and live in a post-enlightened world that is heavily engrossed in scientism (the ideology of science). But that's not to just blame science. I share Robert Barron's views of his Catholic church with our own LDS church - the faith we learn and talk about on a week-to-week basis is dumbed down. It's shallow and surface level. At the end of the day, it's not very compelling. It's like what Thomas Wayment said in one of your videos. When you're able to read the bible for what it really is (get past the complex translations and also have historical context), it's a very compelling text. Not only compelling, it's beautiful. I think the LDS faith excels at practicality, but unless you get involved in studying stuff from scholars, the day-to-day and church experiences are very dull.

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

Given how dismal the Community of Christ membership statistics are, and they are pro-LGBT, trans, etc. I think Ryan's theory better explains why all churches are struggling.

These episodes with Ryan has been really interesting and informative. Thanks for the awesome interviews as always Rick

Women will not be ordained to the priesthood.

@weirdlanguageguy

6 ай бұрын

Would you have said that about black people in the 1950s?

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

Well, you certainly confirm his study.

I can't really disagree with you. There is no scripture to confirm my feelings. However, I firmly believe that the Lord provides whatever we need. I have received training because of my priesthood. I have responsibilities through it. I have used those responsibilities. My experience has also shown me that of the two, women are much more spiritually attuned than men. That doesn't prove it but life surely looks that way. Just because I don't find some proof in scripture doesn't stop my trying to understand.

@GospelTangents

5 ай бұрын

"There is no scripture to confirm my feelings. " The first step is understanding your feelings are not scriptural, which means they are cultural and not doctrinal.

To address the title of this segment - the 2nd coming. Women will not hold the priesthood. The LDS church does not control all those aspects of our life. We teach that the purpose of this life is to become like out Savior and outline how one can go about achieveing that. When you go to college to get a degree you don't tell the school what you think you should do to qualify for said degree. The school outlines the curriculum and that is what you follow if you want the degree. He asked what is it about conservative religions that people find appealing. Sacrificing ones own selfish desires to conform to the Lord produces the faith necessary. If you don't change you're going to die. Staying true to the gospel standards as taught by the Lord and you will not die. Only those who turn their back on the Lord die.

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

You certainly agree with his survey results.

Ryan is great with data and his numbers but his explanation for religious trends is not close to reality. I do not know a single mature member of any church who belongs to a religion so they can be affirmed in their political beliefs. I’m sure there is a correlation of politics and religion and politics is probably a more robust belief, but that does mean religion is dependent on politics. I would recommend that Ryan starts with Tanya Luhrmann’s work, out of Stanford. It explains a much deeper understanding of religious desires, especially in conservative religions. I think Ryan will be able to make better large scale claims. Oh and great interview! I really appreciate Ryan’s time

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

It seems in our current environment, politics IS religion.

Whoa, whoa, hold on. I think it's fair to say and give credit due to the Saints of Utah (that at this rate it may not stay that way unless the missionary work can keep up) but look at places on the world like Austin, Texas. Los Angeles, California. Chicago, Illinois. St. Louis, Missouri (that Jackson County resides near, mind you which is to become the New Jerusalem unless God just changed his mind and said he liked Salt Lake City better), and especially over the years Minneapolis, Minnesota and compare them to Utah as a whole. Who WOULDN'T want to get out of those states in order to live next to neighbors they can trust, don't feel threatened by, and can be treated fairly. Utah has also been in the news for having good employment and good economy. Could be the blessings of a covenant people? Now, that all comes as a cost, right? Where I come from there's a large Hispanic population that's moved in, why? The theory is that they wanted a better life for this kid and were over the American Dream in the big city life (in other words they learned there's actually places other than California that cost a lot less), so, they take their kids pulling them up out of hostile living environments and take them there. But, there's a problem. While the parents want a life change for their kids, the kids don't want a change so the gang life and everything that comes with it goes with him so the devil transplants his seeds into the soil of those communities. Salt Lake and Utah could very well become like the cities listed above. The lamanites eventually overtook the Nephites. Sin was far more popular than living well. Utah may not stay that way as those that go to Utah don't want to assimilate, they want to get out of the crap but bring the crap with them which spawls into a huge problem. I mean, what can you do? Just up the street from the Salt Lake Temple is a massive Catholic Cathedral to drown out the Salt Lake temple to downplay that, and Nauvoo has a Methodist Church in the town settled by the Mormons so, you gotta keep in mind that "the dirty" want to go where "the clean" are to be in the clean, but don't want to keep their old traditions, that's just the nature of the beast. Filthy people don't want to sit in filth, they want to be in an area that's clean but remain lazy, like the Charlie Brown character..... Pig Pen? So, it's gonna happen. Devil loves a nice clean community. It's easy to take and easy to overthrow because, well, he likes to yell

@DanA.-jo4sg

6 ай бұрын

Sure, people want to leave those states, but for Utah? Utah has it's own long list of problems, much of it directly because of the LDS presence that most people want nothing to do with.

@DanA.-jo4sg

6 ай бұрын

"Who WOULDN'T want to get out of those states in order to live next to neighbors they can trust, don't feel threatened by, and can be treated fairly." ----Are you suggesting the LDS exhibit these qualities to the non-LDS community? I don't think so.

@GMMXX80

6 ай бұрын

@@DanA.-jo4sg Generally moreso, I do think so. I currently live around mostly Evangelical and Southern Baptist. They won't talk doctrine unless they ask because "the devil's gonna eat your soul if you talk to them" but, I just worked with a guy whose daughter is going to BYU, he's been up around that area and, while he's not LDS and never has been, he loves to talk about it and always complements on how kind Latter-day Saints are and what good people they are and how safe they feel. NOW! Are all Latter-day Saints perfect people? Absolutely not, we're not living in fantasy land, we're living in the real world. There are some mentally ill people out there that do irrational things, which can unfortunately lead to violent crime. Most latter-day Saint kids have their rebel years, it's tough being a teenager and finding your place. But, those who remain that way figure, shoot, I don't like this lifestyle, I'm out of here, it's too goody-goody here. I know people that have done that, and then came right back. Saw the real world and appreciated the community they lived in. I also have a Pagan buddy. He'll gripe here and there about "The Mormon Community" but has since stopped. I asked him if he didn't like it why he stayed, as he's had children, he's come to appreciate he does live in a community with morals and majority of the people are good people. Are there good people everywhere? I should think so. In all the places Ive lived, people favor Latter-day Saints for their lifestyle even though they don't want to be a part of it. "Its too restrictive. I've gotta have my morning cup of coffee or I can't function." Or "I don't think I could live your lifestyle, my jobs stressful enough I gotta have a drink when I get home." They don't want to talk about it, but they respect it

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

Be careful at this reasoning. Good economy means God loves us and bad economy means God hates us? That's quite egotistical and quite likely wrong.

@GMMXX80

6 ай бұрын

@@DanA.-jo4sg All I'm suggesting is that there can be other factors for the change of scale. As a kid we used to discuss the percentage of LDS to non-LDS in Salt Lake. Rather than simply saying it's the decline of religion, maybe the rest of society just sees it as a good and wholesome and safe place, regardless of how they want to live, whether they choose to assimilate or not. Maybe Utah that appeal. I just saw a video last night where a Latter-day Saint shared their beliefs and in the comments section a non-member stated they weren't of the faith, but appreciated how happy and delightful the person was and commented on how Mormons would good people to live around. I think we can acknowledge and give credit given where credit is due that Utahns efforts to create a maintain a solid community are paying off. And that's going to come with its challenges, outside influence for those who are set in their ways, can have a negative effect as those who don't share the same standards can effect those whose foundation may not be as strong, kids who are still developing, it happens, but I wouldn't say it's all cultural with the secular phenomenon, I think it would be foolish to think that doesn't exist, because it does and it's real, but I think it's also the appeal. I come from that part of the country. My life didn't work out how I wanted and I'm dealing with a difficult part of my life right now and have had to go elsewhere to make things work for the time being, I've lived outside of it before, but it's a whole other animal in a world that doesn't like you, that fears you, that won't associate with you simply by your faith and that's it's not yours. To be able to return and not worry about getting car jacked or accused of racism or anything like that, or rejected from a conversation because I'm not an Evangelical or a Southern Baptist, not easy. One of buddies back home was Presbyterian, the other is a Pagan, and the other atheist, but we all got along

Would women have as much problem with unrighteous dominion as men do in the priesthood. If the Lord gives priesthood ordination to women would that just attract more women to the negative energy, power and control. Women already have problems with control issues among their children and within the walls of their own home perhaps if women really seem to feel left out perhaps ruling their own homes in a more righteous way could be good faith toward helping God lean more toward priesthood ordination for our women. If that could be the will of God.

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

"Women already have problems with control issues among their children and within the walls of their own home..." Wow, not misogynistic at all. :o

Think about what the priesthood actually does for most men. While there appears to be emphasis on running stuff, the main reason for the priesthood is to teach the men about spiritual awareness, spirituality. Guys begin with handling the sacrament. Later the primary responsibility of the priesthood is to give blessings. Blessings on the sick, blessings on children, family, houses, graves, food, etc. The priesthood is to get the guys to focus on spiritual things. They get leadership callings so they can learn to focus on guiding others. Ask anyone who is the most spiritual, men or women. Who understood the need in the Garden of Eden? It is the women and God is using the priesthood to help the men with one of their needs. Spiritual strength is a female thing. They don't need help in that area, they already have it.

@ChrisRobison

6 ай бұрын

Yeah, I think, personally that is a tiresome explanation. It just plays into gender role thinking. It’s a long the same line as thinking more women than men will be saved because women are more righteous.

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

Thank you Chris. I get tired of responding to the same ole, same ole.

@Uke1111-to8xj

5 ай бұрын

I hear this idea a lot among members. However, this narrative that women don't need it because they are already more spiritual sounds very arrogant to me. It is practically the same as saying that women's spirituality is better than men's. I don't think that's how God views it. To Him we are all equal, He does not define women spiritually stronger than men, neither He defines men better fitted for the Kingdom because they have priesthood. The apostle Paul taught that there is no man or woman, but all are one in Christ. I don't know why people in church focus more on differences between two genders than on similarities and union.

Women are not more righteous. They do tend to be more nurturing. However, men are different from women, both physically and mentally. That does not mean smarter, just different. God gives to each person what he or she needs to be successful. Women don't need the priesthood to accomplish God's intentions for them, men do. I think gender differences not gender roles. I have a wife and three daughters. They are different from my son, not better or worse, but different.

This guy doesn’t understand the gospel.

@GospelTangents

6 ай бұрын

This is a completely worthless comment. Give me substance or don't comment.

@Kevin-ts7hf

6 ай бұрын

@@GospelTangents you know, I appreciate you calling me out. It is a worthless comment. I meant to come back and delete it but didn’t get to it. Here’s some substance. Zion, based upon my understanding of scripture, is in opposition to Babylon. I don’t believe they should or even can be syncretized. If it’s the Lord’s will for women to hold the priesthood independently from men before His return, that’ll be a beautiful day. But the idea that the church needs to change in order to appease the changing world if they want to retain members or stay relevant is simply wrong, in my opinion. The Lord’s standard doesn’t change just because the world gets further from it. We’re invited to leave the world and be changed through Him. All of this is my opinion, and I apologize if the original comment came across as disrespectful.

@ChrisRobison

6 ай бұрын

Funny that in the OT, bad things happen all the time to Israel which then they just assume is God and then change to make it work for the new situation. I think it’s silly to think that every change has to or must come from God in the gospel. Just look at garments, they’ve had to change with the times regardless of what the brethren like or don’t like. Or look at caffeine which was culturally included in the WoW for a long time until a an apostle announces in GC that he drinks diet soda. Then all the sudden it becomes okay. I think it is important to keep in mind that there is just as much humanity as divinity in this work and that we have the choice in all this to change things that need to be changed for the sake of the church. As bristling as that comment maybe, it’s true. I think, personally, that we conflate the gospel and the church way too much. One is not the other. One does not own the other, even though it thinks it does.