Which mistake have you made? Leave a comment!

@ezraexan97

6 жыл бұрын

I was just overthinking the -18db rule smh, and also I'm so glad you went over the gain staging on the mix bus! Thank You!!! One question, should I gain stage on the master track, or Mix bus? Because I usually send my tracks to Landr?

@joshuaruiz1013

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome video. You’re right every video ive watched seems to suggest 18 DBFS and it got embedded into my head. Its nice that you explained things im detail.

@jameslove2108

6 жыл бұрын

That was a superb video and tutorial including not one but two musicians on a mission. Nice job playing your twin. You should know when I put in my email to download the templates and hit send it took me to a page which saidbucket.io Ooops. The Requested URL was not found on this server. 500 | bucket.io I guess nobody's perfect but your tutorials have been pretty darn close if not perfection itself. Thanks

@DeAdler_13

6 жыл бұрын

Just record at +20db to save a plugin slot, cause I already got that distortion Louder sounds better and I am the best, that's why I usually gain as much as possible But now you teached me to just turn down the volume on my monitors if it gets to loud Thanks for that! :)

@lujidgi

6 жыл бұрын

i was keeping faders very low but felt something isnt right... had no idea about gain staging concept at all! thank you :)

0:10 15-year-old me working on banger track in FL studio

@denverlightinganddjservice9101

4 жыл бұрын

hahahahahahahahahaha

@romeoangelo3865

2 жыл бұрын

Haha If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZuKzJeils29Zqg.html

I've been producing for years and I must say that this is the clearest and best explanation regarding gain staging I have ever come across!! Another top tutorial!! Cheers Rob!!

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you found it useful!

@computerjantje

4 жыл бұрын

I agree

@mgmthegrand

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this actually clarified a number of minor issues that I still had with gain-staging but couldn't really get specific answers to. Excellent for intermediaries and beginners.

Thanks for making this. I haven't made music in like 7-8 years so I'd forgotten a lot of stuff and just watching videos like this helps me realize mistakes I was making in the past that I can avoid now once I start again....Solid video and straight to the point.

@romeoangelo3865

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZuKzJeils29Zqg.html

low fader syndome used to be a habit

@mathekakivevo4222

5 жыл бұрын

low fader syndrome up to now, I should pull up men

Thank you so much, Rob! You have excellent tutorials. My mixing has improved substantially after implementing the techniques you've shown. Biggest gain staging mistakes are easily #1 and #3.

I made every single one of these mistakes this week lol. Do a Mistakes video on Reverb.

Thanks for the tips! You can also go through the mix with pre-faders, and if you use a software instrument you can level the gain there. Make sure that’s not so loud volume on the plugin that you will turn your fader far down in the mix.

The gain not faders explanation did more for me than I care to admit, I totally had fader syndrome.. always learn something new on this channel, thanks!

Holy cow! I learned so much thank u! I used to (attempt) mixing using just the faders, and had no idea about gain staging wow

-18dB fs (full scale - digital domain) is only a reference point for the VU - Volume Unit (or RMS - Root Mean Square in the Digital world) -18dB fs gives us some necessary headroom so we can raise the signal with EQ, Compressors, Amp-sims, etc. till we reach max. -12dBfs to the very max. of -10dBfs (over-compressed """modern""" = ridiculously pumped mix known as Loudness War), final mixes should end up at around -18dBfs RMS or at a very max. of -12dBfs RMS. -6dB fs is only a reference point for the PEAKS (which in Digital world are very important, whilst in Analogue they get 'saturated' = compressed to what we call 'warmth' or 'tape saturation') -6dB fs gives us some necessary headroom so we got the TRUE PEAKS covered as well! In Digital world this is very important as more often PEAKS (of discrete samples) may not clip, but the TRUE PEAKS (over-sampling internally by plugins, sample conversions, etc.) might clip if Normalisation has been applied to -0dBfs (no headroom for True Peaks)! *Recently Spotify™ made a 'standard' for their Audio Stream to be -14dBfs RMS (volume unit or LUfs = Loudness Unit full scale) with -1dBfs TP (true peak).

@SocietateaAscendenta

5 жыл бұрын

Oh, man.. When I tought that I was finally starting to understand mixing... Why did I not choose painting or photoshop...?? WHY?? What I do not understand, and may I ask you folks, WHY IS HE USING a plugin to lower the DB and NOT use the faders? Why do we then use a mixer (that Thing with faders) then? Is it because he set his Audio post-faders, or what?

@SocietateaAscendenta

5 жыл бұрын

Cool. All of Audio Messiahs say 3 words and do not explain nothing.

@kieranshevlin5034

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. If a virtual instrument doesn't get its signal raised by an effect , should it's volume better be around -18dbfs or -12dbfs ?

@SoItWouldBe

5 жыл бұрын

@@SocietateaAscendenta that is just by choice, depending on the program, you can't really see what kind of gain reduction you are actually doing when lowering your faders, with the plug in you can have an exact number of gain reduction you are trying to get to

@stephenpenn9776

4 жыл бұрын

Red Yhem I was wondering about this? Am not sure if am correct but I have be disabling the VST affect and in just running a dry signal. Then I adjust the gain!

This was my biggest mistake before allways clipping and then not knowing about inputlevels for plugins..so much fun mixing ;)

Thanks for this valuable tutorial explaining exactly how to set this up, and what to be watching for! Essential for ALL levels of experience.

this is amazing ... I learned an insane amount thank you!!

"as long as you're not hitting zero on any of your channels it's fine"...except you can't clip your channels in the box. That only applies to channels being sent directly to a d/a converter. "Just by importing the tracks we're clipping by 13 decibels". Yup. And you can put one gain plugin on the master channel as the first insert and remedy that by turning that gain plugin down -13 decibels. I see that you eventually did add a gain plugin to the master channel, but you could've saved a lot of time by simply doing that from the start and not worrying about the individual channels clipping. They only matter if you're working hybrid, which you don't appear to be doing. In the box, you cannot clip your channels in a modern DAW. That's been the case for at least 7 years, probably longer. Analog modeling plugins don't have a -18dbfs sweet spot. This is a common misconception. Some developers use -14dbfs to equal 0dbvu, while others use -20dbfs to equal 0dbvu. So if you're going to target a certain calibrated level, you'd better know what that is for the plugin you're using. But even that is too tedious. What we're trying to accomplish is a healthy signal to noise ratio without adding obvious saturation and distortion. This is why I grab the input gain control on any non-linear plugins and experiment with different input levels until it gives me the sound I want. Often before it breaks up into obvious distortion, it becomes full and rich. There's a sweet spot, but it's different for every source and you can only find it by experimenting with the input levels and treating the analog modeling plugins like saturation units. Calibrating to -18 misses a lot of potential tonal goodness you could be getting out of them. Also, -18dbfs for amp simulators is way too quiet. The amp sims that have automatic input gain (TSE X-50, the new Waves PRS models) tend to automatically adjust the input gain to be a lot higher, typically around -4dbfs. "Obsessing over gain staging, it should only take 2-3 minutes at the beginning". I agree, but only if you're working hybrid like I do. If you're not working hybrid, and are staying 100% in the box the entire mix, then you really only need to worry about not clipping your master channel's output. That's it. And in that case, we have a master fader as a fader for a reason. If it's clipping, turn it down. Done. (Won't work in pro tools since the master fader adjusts the level being fed into the master effects chain, so use a gain plugin on the master channel instead). "Mistake #3, clipping on the busses." - already covered that, you can't clip the busses. The red light is going off to alert you if you'd be clipping had the bus been sent to an analog output, like to an outboard compressor, because the converter has a ceiling and you need to avoid clipping it. If you're completely in the box, you can't clip the channels or the busses. You just can't. It won't happen. You're free to ignore the clipping lights. "Just add a gain plugin to the group", I wouldn't because you might mess up the saturation character of the console emulations you're using. Just ignore the clipping lights. "Not level matching plugins". With ya there, at least while someone's learning. It's good practice to level match by ear, not with a meter, then a/b to hear if it's actually helping or hurting. But once you've trained your ears, this becomes not that important to do. "You might be tempted to get Waves's new Level plugin" (Mv2 isn't new, and is a parallel compressor not a gain utility) "Or there's a vu meter out there you want to get" (shows a free vu meter plugin on screen). You're right, you don't need it, because gain staging happens at tracking. Make sure you've recorded with proper levels, and a healthy signal to noise ratio, and you're set for mixing in the box because of the completely linear nature of a floating point 32bit mixing engine. That said, if you're working hybrid, Hornet's VU Meter is well worth the $5 because you can group all your channels together and calibrate them super fast. I use REAPER's built in custom actions for this, but Hornet's VU is a real godsend for people working hybrid that don't have REAPER. Spend money on workflow enhancements. Sometimes that involves spending money on metering. Your channel meters are only designed to give you one thing, so you can't compare the Logic peak meter with a VU meter. Both have uses. "Fader resolution" doesn't have anything to do with the gain structure of the audio passing through the channel. Some DAW's have a completely linear fader behavior, others behave more like consoles. But fader resolution is the last thing I'd ever worry about when mixing. If I've turned the fader down -25db, it's because that's where the track sat correctly in the balance of the tracks. I'm not worried about fader resolution, and I'm not going to make sure my faders are set to zero after I've done my initial mix. The faders were designed to be moved, so use them. I have a gain staging video on my channel titled "Gain Staging: What to know, and why you shouldn't stress too much about it". Come check it out. Not trying to crap on anyone's video, you put a lot of time into this and you did a great job on the presentation. It's not your fault if you've been taught the same half truths that everyone else learns, you taught what you'd been taught. It's just largely outdated now.

@michaelleitner4334

6 жыл бұрын

Hello, I`ve watched the Video u mentioned in ur post, it`s very interresting, but what`s about virtual instruments? With Synts, Drums etc. For example i have the Superior Drummer 3 and i pick up a mixed Kit, so i have already the volume that goes to the Stereo bus, without puting on a lot of other plugins, whats the right meter Level in These case? Or if i have a Synth where i have to put a compressor on or a distortion, whats the right Level there? And where i Level the gain? On the Output Volume of the VST Instrument or in the channel bevor the Instrument?thanks

@TheNoiseFloorav

6 жыл бұрын

Virtual instruments go out to the same internal floating point linear mixing system as audio tracks, and therefore have the same rules about infinite headroom as audio tracks. If you're clipping on the virtual instrument channel, but that channel is not feeding an analog output directly, there's nothing to worry about. Until the audio hits an actual analog conversion point, you've got nothing to worry about regarding clipping. Remember, Gain staging is nothing more than setting the APPROPRIATE input and output levels. If you're concerned about how to set the level for a source, ask yourself what you're trying to accomplish? If you're feeding it into a compressor with a fixed threshold, does that compressor have an input control? If so, you likely have enough room with the input control to dial in the compressor. If not, you should feed it a quieter signal. I don't know of any compressors with fixed thresholds that don't have input gain controls.

@JohnMorris-ge6hq

5 жыл бұрын

I heard modern DAWs clipping all the time. Not recording hot is more important. Unless you have a reference mastering converter with crazy headroom, recording too hot will sound like crap. The analog sweet spot for 24 bit DACs is -18 dbfs. RMS (Average not peak) Only when recording. Every DAC has an analog preamp in it. The 24 bit converter is designed to sound it's best at -18 dbfs RMS. This is 0VU for 24 bit. In the U.k. it - 20 dbfs RMS. Sorry, this a pro industry standard. We have too many clients smashing their converters. And it sounds like crap. There is headroom and there is usable headroom. They are smashing them as if it's 1986 and they are using a Sony 1610.

@TheNoiseFloorav

5 жыл бұрын

John Morris you only hear clipping at d/a conversion points. You can’t clip your individual channels unless it’s feeding a converter directly.

@TheNoiseFloorav

5 жыл бұрын

Assai well, not “all” of them are useless😉mine got it right. Come watch.

This is the best video I could've ever found. I hear a difference between day and night in my mixing. Thank you so much for putting this together!!

Finally, someone that tells me what to do without showing me the only way 50 pound solution plug in. Logical and so useful.

Positively valuable info, thank you! Glad this was recommended on my feed. Subbed

@masteringcom

5 жыл бұрын

So glad we could help!

Yeah! I was one of the Obsessors! I assumed the Gain should be the same across all tracks.

This was by far the best gain staging video thank you 🙏

Super helpful. Thank you so much. I've used this method recently (without realizing it) so it's good to see that I'm on the right track!

One of the things I like to do is change all my metering to pre fader (there is an option for this in Logic) - that way you can see what is really going on. If your master is clipping pre-fader, than you need to turn down your individual tracks more rather than using a gain plugin on your master.

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Good tip!

@sonidojamon

6 жыл бұрын

better tip indeed than the proper video...

@miroslaw7

6 жыл бұрын

In my opinion applying a gain plugging on a master bus does not solve your problem with clipping. It just attenuated exactly the same (still clipping ) sound as gain plugin does not change the sound but simply changes the level of whatever is incoming (bad or good). Therefore we need to make sure the master bus does not clip in the first place, before we put any plugging on the master.

@Bangulo

Жыл бұрын

@@miroslaw7 Thats what i was thinking as well. Kind throws this dudes credibility out the window when he said that. Stopped watching and looked for this comment.

@reggie1319

Жыл бұрын

@@Bangulo yeah that was questionable

in logic i like to pull all the faders down to -6 then adjust clip gain in the inspector on every clip until i have levels before i do anything else

It really worked for me after I look and try some tutorials, yours is the one that worked. Owe you a lot.

GOLDEN video and straight to the point information. Every mixer has to see this!

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jimmy!

The worst mistake is use your eyes and not your ears

@DapperHesher

5 жыл бұрын

Dude, you use your eyes with gain staging.

@Caardiboi

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, after I heard that I was like o.O we’re enginears. We must be able to hear every move we make in our editing and mixing

@musician1971a

5 жыл бұрын

Mix with your ears, gain stage with your eyes. Have you not been paying attention?

@DapperHesher

5 жыл бұрын

@@musician1971a Exactly. good luck picking out transient sub frequency garbage or clipping on some pres with your ears. There's a reason there's visualizers in EQs.

@musician1971a

5 жыл бұрын

@@DapperHesher exactly!

THIS VID SMACK MY HEAD WITH HAMMER. I thought I know all of gainstaging after look at this, I find out I don't know anything. thx for video.

What a great eloquent video this is. Good job!

Great video! Very clear and really helpful. Thanks, Rob!

My biggest mistake was overloading the channel and plugins and wondering why it sounded bad. I didn't realise until I loaded up a saturator by klanghelm and wondered why the needle on the input went to red instantly. My biggest lesson was to realise that my amp actually has a volume control which can be turned up lol. Another lesson was with reference tracks. Realising that the level or gain has to be adjust to roughly the same level as my mix or else I end up driving the mix too hot. Brilliant advice.

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

All very important observations! Thanks for watching.

I am a reformed low fader. Thank you so much!

@carminbhe1592

3 жыл бұрын

Damn that pic got me tho 🤣🤣

very powerful mixing advice thank you.

So glad I have discovered your channel ... not only is the content great ... you're ability to communicate the message is EXCELLENT!! ... thank you again ... :)

@masteringcom

5 жыл бұрын

Happy we can help!

Waves MV2 is not for simple gain staging but for keeping vocals with too much range in control etc

05:30 I wouldn't say merely putting a gain reduction on master to avoid clipping is a good idea. Surely more gain staging would be beneficial to achieve that organically (-6db). Which leaves actual headroom!

@rareaudiobooks_

3 жыл бұрын

I'm not familiar with logic, but you should never overload a channel and then "fix" it with a plug-in after it's over-loaded. Is this a joke tutorial?

@anttisaarimusic

3 жыл бұрын

More gain reduction in the single tracks would leave your analog modeling plugins on the tracks with way too little gain to do what they were actually designed to do. The clipping on the master, like they said in the video, is digital so fixing it on the spot makes no difference, does it?

@tomszymusic

3 жыл бұрын

@@rareaudiobooks_ I got this point in the video and thought the exact same thing. I'm not an expert on the subject but I'm pretty sure all he is doing is turning down an already distorted signal so that the Distortion is not present on the meter...but it's still present in the signal

@tomszymusic

3 жыл бұрын

@@anttisaarimusic if you're worried about hitting your analog model plug-ins at the appropriate level, just hit them at -18 or whatever you're supposed to hit them at to get the desired effect. And then if you're still clipping on the master bus, put another gain plugin AFTER the analog model plugin to bring the signal down so that you are not clipping on your master fader. Or, a lot of analog modeled plugins already have a built-in trim for this purpose exactly. This coincides with the concept of unity gain, so that you're roughly going in and out of a chain of plug-ins at approximately the same level for each one so you're not just adding gobs of gain for each EQ or compressor

@digitaalikaali

2 жыл бұрын

By default, Logic does summing using double-precision floating point arithmetic. Just for the heck of it, I tried cranking a test sine wave up as far as possible. I got it to +120 dB (and back) without any clipping. Verified using an oscillator and a harmonic analyzer. In other words, gain reduction on the master bus works really really well. All modern plugins also use floating point arithmetic. (Not doing so would just make the programmer's life harder for no reason at all.) They don't really care about the 0dB limit either. Just adjust the input/output gains and any internal thresholds to your liking and you're golden. The whole concept of "headroom" is only meaningful when hitting an interface of some sorts, i.e. when coming from, going to, or doing processing in the analog domain. Voltage levels have hard limits; numbers do not.

Thanks for your videos! I feel like you are the only one who can explain it in a way that I can absolutely make no mistakes :D

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Glad we could help!

Thank you very much for all your videos! That's very helpful.

This is solidifying what I learned on my own just this morning! Having my kick and snare down at -18db just wasnt cutting it!

@romeoangelo3865

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZuKzJeils29Zqg.html

Nice video! I've definitely experienced "low fader syndrome" before. DERP! :)

Best information I've found in mixing on all of KZread

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Glad we could help Mick!

Fantastic Video ! really put me a step forward

Here's one reason why the -18 dBFS value exists. Complex waveforms have a peak to average ratio, commonly called the Crest Factor. Since most meters measure the average level (which corresponds to how our ears respond to volume) they miss the true peaks. Music can have Crest Factors in the 6-8 range, or roughly 16-18 dB. Since A/D and D/A converters are PEAK referenced devices, if they are not to be clipped their average / RMS input levels need to be ~-18 dBFS.

Thank you so much, I had no idea what I was doing. Now I do haha.

@masteringcom

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome!

Hey! A big thank you to this and other videos that you made! I have just applied some of your tips and tricks to my mixing process and it really helped me out a lot in terms of clarifying my mixes and knowing if I use some eq or not. Thanks again. ^^

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Awesome! So glad we could help.

I was def obsessing over gainstaging after I watched your video on it last year, lol! Great vid (y)

This just helped me out a lot. Everything I didnt matter I was still clipping. I use amp sims and drum sims for my tracks and could never get enough head room until I tried this thank you! I’m a rookie to recording and working in a DAW I’m glad I came across this video in my early stages.

@Niramerica

2 жыл бұрын

Larry, FYI, if you are putting an amp sim in post (i.e., recording a dry guitar signal and then placing the SIM in the DAW during the mixing stage), add a gain stage plug in AFTER the amp sim and adjust accordingly.

I have the low fader syndrome, but I'm trying to cure myself! Great video

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

Excellent summary, clear, concise, smart. Thanks!

This was excellent, and you made the concept very clear. Thanks so much! I've made the low fader syndrome mistake a few times, but not no more after this.

Pretty much every single mistake you listed ... Mixtool has become my go to friend ....

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Glad we could help!

@outofthinair1

6 жыл бұрын

Your videos have taught me so much and have improved my mixes 1000 % ... Thanks for all of your hard work

Hi, for the dudes out there that are worrying about gain staging, let's precise things a little bit. What is said in this video will remain TRUE, but some things are (in my opinion) not quite well explained. So about the -18dBfs sweet spot that should be reached at the recording stage and pretty much maintained throughout the whole production and mixing process, DON'T FORGET that we talk about AVERAGE LEVELS here. And obviously NOT peak levels. So YES, when you decide to start the mixing process after being sent a whole session that was recorded by another guy - that appears to like digital clipping on the way in - you always HAVE TO start with some basic levelling tools like gain, trim, etc... BUT, setting all the tracks around -18dBfs PROPERLY, CANNOT be achieved by looking at a peak meter. Because Peak measurements appears to visually "mimic" what the audio waveform really is, dynamic and level wise. So the reality is that we dont perceive levels (loudness if you will) this way. To look at something that shows the sound more closely to the way it actually sounds YOU NEED to use and average meter. Meaning RMS meter or VU meter. This way, YOU CAN align ALL THE TRACKS at -18dBfs AVERAGE (not peak) and actually have a good balance between stuffs. If you need an exemple of what I'm laking about, lets go record both an electric distorted guitare and a cajon. Align them at any dBfs value with a peak meter. Then do the same thing using an average meter and then compare... You know... just listen and trust your ears. Cheers.

@JohnMorris-ge6hq

5 жыл бұрын

Romain Dupont All true. And a warning to all: It's next to impossible judge a RMS level with peak meters. Of course even the Reaper demo has RMS metering, peak or both at the same time so this should not be a problem..

@flowdreas5351

3 жыл бұрын

This is so true. I don't know why so many KZread channels say to use peak and never mention loudness or VU meters. Using VU meters finally fixed all my mixes!

@djabthrash

Жыл бұрын

Great point and i used to gain stage only by looking at peaks, which was a huge mistake.

Great as always 🎉

Amazing video! I had the low fader syndrome but know I’ve learnt, add a gain plugin on all my tracks!! Thank you for this video mate

You realize, logic mixer Channels have +64 db of headroom, right? The only channel that "clips" above 0 db is the master channel. You can have all of your mixer channels peak above 0 DB and it won't effect the sound AT ALL unless your master is above 0.

@romeoangelo3865

2 жыл бұрын

If you want to hear someone work before they learned all the proper techniques then check out this artists work. He posts his music and vocals as he gets better with all this. He uses all stock and uses earphones as a mic lol kzread.info/dash/bejne/lZuKzJeils29Zqg.html

Not sure I can subscribe to using the gain plug in the master bus... or any bus for that matter. Get the channels staged the way you want them, then use the faders to stage your busses. Jmo.

@Plastixxx

5 жыл бұрын

Plus imho it would be easier and safer to get your stereo and mono gain plugs, add/clone them to all the channels with the same volume duck level, that way you won't screw with the dynamics when you start compressing/taping during mastering ... and bonus is if you are doing a mixdown for someone else's track then you will spare yourself the 'oh this sounds a little lower/higher then i recorded it' remark ... and they will be right ... if its needed to amend volumes of the stems during mixdown artist would tell ya or you check if they are ok with it :) ...

@eccentricworx

4 жыл бұрын

i agree - don‘t forget, there‘s also a difference between pre- & post-fader...

@giovannifranzetti6214

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly on point. Even if summing happens through a floating point bitdepth alghorithm, you wouldn’t prefer fixing it after fader. This mistake kind of defeat the point of the video, even if the remaining suggestions he gives are accurate. So I guess a thumb up and one down for him.

@RobBecCCP

4 жыл бұрын

Nick Holum Bro, I literally stopped watching the video when he started using gain plug on the channels instead of the faders to look for THIS comment!!! And it didn’t take long to find it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@denverlightinganddjservice9101

4 жыл бұрын

@@RobBecCCP SAME I'm so confused rn

Thanks man! Love it :) Thanks for the tip of mistake #6, typical low fader mistakes on percussion :D

This is awesome.... can not say enough how much I have made these mistakes....! Been a Cubase user, switching over to Logic....and saw this.. wow, great post, and so true...tracks always sound better when they are not to hot during mixing. Really enjoying your posts for Logic.

Damn I did every mistake you said 🤣

I really can't understand the difference between changing the volume through faders, changing the volume at source (VST) and changing the volume through a gain tool. Can you guys please help??

@jonowirion

4 жыл бұрын

watch the video lots!

@jonowirion

4 жыл бұрын

basically it's turning volume down 'before' it hits the fader. Turning volume down at fader doesnt change the initial amount of gain thts why you need to either record at a corect level or adjust it lower with a gain pugin or pre gain fader.

@lunakid12

4 жыл бұрын

@@jonowirion ​ @Jono Davies I don't see how that answers it, because the question assumes (as do I) that at this stage we're interested in the channel outputs _after_ fader anyway. Or if we aren't, the real question is: why? _(Remember: we're here to learn, so we may not know everything already. And there's nothing in the video about this aspect, so if you watch it "lots", it will still not help. Note, there's one related hint: not to have the faders way too low, to retain resolution. But in practice you hardly ever have them so low that you can't just very much pull them wherever you want by hand, especially as we are talking about eyeballing here. So, except for pathological cases, the question seems to still be open.)_

@DJPhantham

4 жыл бұрын

@@lunakid12 If you use the fader to gain stage then you may run into a problem where when you begin to mix, you may have a fader that's already really low and a small change in the fader will result in a large change in sound. Doing gain staging like the video suggests makes it so your faders all start at 0 and gives you maximum control when mixing.

@Hugoknots

4 жыл бұрын

say you have a compressor on your plugin chain for a given track, the amount of input before the compressor affects how the compressor will work. Then later when mixing you find that the track is too loud. IF you lower that tracks gain through the fader you will completely change how the compressor and other plugins on your chain are working. You want to keep the input to your compressor the same, so you would need a gain plugin to lower DB's after the compressor. IF you lower the fader, you lower the input to your plugins which affects how saturation, compressors , and other plugins work. Use pre fader metering to see your tracks original input, adjust the gain there to a healthy level (-6db ish apparently) and start adding plugins while maintaining a roughly same input. make sense?

Woah, great video mate!

good work king, love you

Hmmm. Yeah, you can do it with a plug in, or save the minimal processing power you may have and use clip gain. eh ;) And hang on a sec. You didnt check pre fade level? even though you havent done anything to the mix yet, isnt it kind of a bad habit to not check pre fade levels ad adjust gain according to that?

@victorbicudo1374

4 жыл бұрын

Spot on.

I am not quite sure what you are saying in the gain staging for recording, you are not doing the same as in the past? If I record and old analog synth, you record as close to 0db as you can without going over and clipping. But if your analog pre amp is cheap, I would agree that pushing it closer to 0 will make it sound worse. But gain staging in the digital realm, it is my understanding it does not matter if the channel turns read or not or even if the bus hits red. (there is an exception). I believe all daws are minimum 32bit floating point internal processing, there is no way you can practically you can run out of range 1600db. I use FL Studio, the manual says this. www.image-line.com/support/flstudio_online_manual/html/mixer_levelsandmixing.htm The manual states in the Using FL Studio Peak Meters section "However, not all signals over 0 dB are bad. Audio inside FL Studio is digital, and is (at least) represented as 32-Bit floating point numbers. As with all digital audio formats, the number gets bigger as the signal gets louder. Crucially, 32 bit numbers can represent a maximum value that is about 65,000 times greater than a 16 Bit audio CD or .mp3. In other words, a dynamic range over 1600 dB. This is why internal audio, carried on the insert mixer tracks, is not going to run out of headroom under any practical circumstance, and why you should not obsess if they peak over 0 dB." It would be nice if you could respond to this and your feeling and observations. The exception I was talking about is some plugins cannot handle over driving their input stage. My experience when using these type of plug ins is that they will not allow overdriving them. Some analog modeling and some saturation plug ins have this issue and I think it depends on how they ere programed. I noticed in your example of clipping, you were clipping the stereo out channel. I assume that goes to your digital to analog converter,.. basically your sound card. Absolutly, if you over drive this, you will get distortion because it is limited by the dynamic range specification of the cards output, but I am talking about instrument/sample channels and buss mix channels, all of the internal stuff. This is true about Logic Pro X, quoting another article " Clipping when mixing in Logic X is not as straightforward as a "clipping" or "not clipping". Darren Burgos uncovers how Logic X's 32-bit floating point engine deals with clipping. Unlike an analog mixer, digital mixers and many DAWs like Logic Pro X have volume headroom/ceilings internally that are virtually impossible to clip. They work in what is called 32-bit Floating Point. In Logic X, you may have noticed that when a single channel “clips”, its peak indicator lights up orange now instead of red like in Logic 9. This is Apple’s subtle way of showing you that the channel is not really clipping, but is definitely over the zero dB point." It would be nice to have a response from you on this

@tanelehala6422

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly my thoughts (and more)! No response tho :(

@tanelehala6422

4 жыл бұрын

I read most analog simulation plugins might sound best at around -18 dB VU (not dBfs) tho

@tanelehala6422

4 жыл бұрын

Where gain staging in a DAW becomes practical is the convenient displaying of WAVEFORMS. Using Reaper's Volume (Pre-FX) or I guess it was "clip volume" on Sony Vegas (differently adjusted clips can be crossfaded then), u can make all the waveforms look more or less the same size so u don't have to constantly zoom the waveform in and out vertically to see what's going on on different tracks, especially if there are loads of em

Thank you clear and concise explanation helped a lot.

Well done these rules apply in live sound mixing as well. You are exactly right it is the difference between a good mix and a great mix

Would lowering the waveform itself achieve the same effect?

@marekvoosen

6 жыл бұрын

David Rosario for sure and it’s even better for a comparison later with and without the plugin chain. Cause without using a gain plugin you don’t have different volume levels. And if you still wanna use a gain plugin try hornet vu meter, it does the compensation automatically. Time saver.

@BeccaLozierTrumpet

6 жыл бұрын

this is the proper way to do this. adjust each and every waveform. that plugin is more useful for adjusting gain between plugins.

@giulioboobzilla

6 жыл бұрын

Yes. I neva used gain plugins. Pros don't need 20 plugins on 1 channel. 3 is enuff but don't obsess :-)

@vocalead

6 жыл бұрын

Yes it is, even better, just make sure you’re actually lowering the volume and not just adjusting the vertical zoom of the waveform

@magisterwarjomaa3858

6 жыл бұрын

Seconded. At least in Reaper (and other DAWs using similar principles) you'd just adjust the audio item volume knob to achieve the desired level. The waveform zoom is unrelated to the actual amplitude and is just a visual aid. But if you want to make your life more complicated you could in fact throw a gain plugin as an insert fx, as well :D

Great lesson!!!

As usual, cogent and concise information.......you done good my again my friend. Very helpful.

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dave!

#7 consolidate your tracks to desired level beforehand and save time and dsp by not filling your mixes with multiple gain plugins

@djabthrash

Жыл бұрын

(in Reaper at least, and i guess in other DAWS like ProTools) you can change the level of the audio items/takes ("clips" in protools) directly without having to consolidate your tracks. And it will change the waveform also, which makes things neat visually.

sooooo... after is around -18 what do you do then?? compress to add gain to your levels??

@feyln6176

6 жыл бұрын

FUCK THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!

@TheNoiseFloorav

5 жыл бұрын

This isn't correct. You can't clip your channels in the box.

@JohnMorris-ge6hq

5 жыл бұрын

The Noise Floor You can clip the master mix bus. Happens to me all the time.

@TheNoiseFloorav

5 жыл бұрын

John Morris correct, but not your channels. You only clip at d/a conversion points.

@johnchase8510

5 жыл бұрын

You can clip your analog modeled plugins, and just having 30-40-60 channels with a bit of "grit" can give you a strident mix.

All....till I understood how important it was before mixing stage. Now I do it like the Pro's. No plugins. No Time. All because of guys like you Rob. Great video tutorials.

Thanks - looks like I'm already on the right path but comments about analog modelling sweet spot and faders not being linear really useful.

Using faders instead of pre-fader metering to adjust levels on tracks. Wont do that again.

@rickyanthony

6 жыл бұрын

Noon question, but why is it bad to use volume faders, instead of a gain plugin, apart from the resolution issue that may result if some are pulled very low?

@jessebodenmusic8885

6 жыл бұрын

Practically speaking, for me, I have much better control over my gain staging going pre-fader. Signal from effects, eq's, etc can be coming in too hot, jacking up the stereo out without me ever knowing it if I'm using faders only. The results using pre-fader metering are a better balanced recording and less stressful gain staging. All effects and eq's benefit and work better together now too. So much easier to end up with a good stereo out level this way. No expert, this is just my experience.

@justinf5422

6 жыл бұрын

Ricky Anthony It's not... This is the most odd video I've ever seen regarding pro audio. None of these things are a standard practice. Gain staging, yes absolutely. But not the way he's doing it, that's for sure.

@7EEVEE

6 жыл бұрын

Okay, cos I was wondering what the fuck was the point when there's a fader right there... I mean, I'm willing to hear that this is bad for whatever reason, but it definitely confused me as to what the difference would REALLY be.

@epidote6020

5 жыл бұрын

@@7EEVEE you can clip in the chain before the signal hits the fader, which would mean even if you pull the fader down the volume is still distorted

"just do it with your eyeballs"

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

👀

@RandomPerson-jg5qm

5 жыл бұрын

lol rookie mixing

Thanks Rob, really useful!

This was really helpful ,thank you

Mix

I wouldn't put a gain plugin on every insert I would just lower the volume at the source (vst) for the same result and save some CPU

@chrisanson243

5 жыл бұрын

This only works, when you are not mixing stems you received from a client.

@AkhileshKumar-fk3od

4 жыл бұрын

I really can't understand the difference between changing the volume through faders, changing the volume at source (VST) and changing the volume through a gain tool. Can you guys please help??

Nice systematic explanation. Good pep work...

So easy and simple explanation Thank you Learned lot

gain plug in on the master? that's not the best option

@NoiseBoulderRecords

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah I think the same, adding a gain plugin to actually increase db in the master bus sounds better to me, that way you still aim for a given target with more headroom, doing the contrary sounds like you actually are squishing the headroom.

Why is it important to use a gain plug-in rather than adjust the fader itself?

@illestofdemall13

6 жыл бұрын

Sc0tther The audio can clip before the fader so turning down the fader will not prevent that.

@illestofdemall13

6 жыл бұрын

Sc0tther the fader is post gain after inserts.

@DrJoshGuitar

6 жыл бұрын

The fader is last in the chain on each channel so it means the signal may end up clipping and distorted by the time it gets through your channel inserts.

@Sc0tther

6 жыл бұрын

I see, thanks very much for explaining. Though now I'm wondering, If the chain were to make the track clip, why not add a gain plug-in at the very end of the chain to bring the level back down?

@illestofdemall13

6 жыл бұрын

Sc0tther because the clipping can occur into a plugin and cause unwanted distortion. This can not be removed by turning the audio down post clipping. It must be done before the clipping occurs. Signal flow is very important in the audio's path.

Thank u sir ! Opened my eyes here! Cheers bruvah!!

Awesome!! I needed this video!!

Great advice man. perfect for creating a personal formula

great video! I did make the spending money mistake - but it was only $25 on the Klanghelm VU meter and I like how visual it is so not a huge deal. Thanks again, I learned some good stuff from this video.

luv this channel 🖤

Just learnt something about Gain Staging, now not to get obsessed but use it as you suggested. Thanks

This is amazing, helped me SO much!

once again very useful, many thanks!

Great video! Increased my mix already.

Dude you explained this in detail!! Thank you!!

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Glad we could help!

Great info thanks !

Good stuff, enjoyed it 💘

Hi Rob, just remixed a track I'm working on with your template and advice! Awesome mate it's transformed the punch and clarity like I would never have believed!!!! More thanks than I can put into words . . . . Godbless and Peace.

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks Andy! Glad it helped!

This is a great video, thanks for your time!

Having never done any training or actually understanding how to record I had never come across this I was implimenting so many other things what a jem thank you so much

@masteringcom

6 жыл бұрын

Our pleasure!

I’m just starting with Logic Pro so didn’t know much of this , very helpful . I also understand about levelling up with pink noise too after studying it the other night

thanks, it actually let me through so i could download it.

it worked! thank you so much!!