I’m one of those who, admittedly, is afraid. We had a church split a while back and I’m still hurting over the people who left. This week I saw a blurb after a Google search that previewed something our church’s former pastor had written about us, and my chest squeezed. That visceral reaction made me not want to read what the man had to say. A sizable number of our members when to a more conservative church, the pastor being among them. This is not the first church split I’ve been through; I was directly impacted by one and observed two others from the sidelines. What good is it to make church friends if they’re just going to leave? On January 6, when I was watching the riots and posting links to CNN, I was privately messaged by another Christian saying that my posts were “divisive and unchristian” and that I should “let people make up their own minds.” A close friend thinks that my congregation is “making a couple of mistakes” (we are a Church of Christ that uses instruments in worship and has women participate fully in the worship service; two things that Churches of Christ have not traditionally done.) My husband and I don’t see eye to eye on politics right now and I feel like I have to be careful what I say. I have a form of OCD that manifests itself in scrupulosity - an over concern with all things religious - and also deal with depression and anxiety. Plus I have a number of physical health issues that I manage. My husband works for the federal government and he may not be going to work on Monday if Congress doesn’t pass a spending bill. We have an adult autistic son and we need to make some decisions about his future. I am afraid that the safety net he needs won’t be there when he needs it. I live in a state where there is precious little help for families with disabled children. I went back to school to train for another career so we could pay for our son’s needs as he grew older. I was not able to finish for a number of reasons, but thanks to remote work, I’ve been spending the last seven or so years paying back what we owe. (I’m one of the people the payback pause due to COVID helped. We paid down a lot of the principal and I’m slowly starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know that the Bible says God wins in the end, but what do you do in the meantime? I hear people scream about how they are the only ones “right”, and everyone can “prove” they are right by using Scripture. It doesn’t seem to matter that I can use Scripture, the opponents just scream back louder.

Good evening from the SF Bay Area. There is no fear in God. Interesting that Christians are so fearful of EVERYTHING. The conversation with Lacrae addressed this very well. If you trust and have faith in God's ability to direct people to do well you will create the environment to flourish.

What's So Amazing About Grace is the best Christian book I've ever read and I feel it is essential to anyone who calls themselves a follower of Jesus. It truly changed my life.

Skye, you nailed it. Fear is a hindrance to the cultivation of the fruit of the Spirit.

I think Skye is right about the loss of respect for institutions. I think the dress code issue is relatively minor compared to the tangible disrespect for institutions and attempts to destroy institutions that have become the norm.

@r.altman6458

9 ай бұрын

You can see the same thing in performance spaces. People used to dress up to go see theater or ballet for example.

Loved the interview with Philip Yancy! Time to re-read his classic!

As a stroke survivor I can attest to the fact that clothes can be so difficult, HOWEVER NOT IMPOSSIBLE. My affected side is my dominant side, adding to the difficulty. At home I wear the easiest most comfortable clothes I own. Dressing for events, formal or informal, I dress with respect for the event/environment/place. Yes, I have paid for alterations to clothing to have snaps vs buttons and other fasteners I CAN do. There is zero reason for Fetterman to be going to work so disrespectfully.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

I can't speak from experience regarding having suffered from a stroke, but to me the partisan breakdown of Congress that started years ago at the hands of the Republicans is far more offensive than the relaxation of the dress code in the Senate. They've been disrespecting us and the institution they "work" in long before Fetterman began dressing casually on the Senate floor. He's on record that he'll begin wearing suits when Republicans start doing the job that they were elected to do.

Suggestion from my 14 year old (they enjoyed listening to the interview with Yancy): puppets of each of the 4 co-hosts and have them interviewed by Buck Denver! 😆

My kids wore uniforms from kindergarten through high school here in Brazil. The uniforms reduced class differences, cheapened school apparel immensely and simplified complete that question of what to wear. I went to a public highs school in the US. There was fierce competition among students as to appearance.

I’m a huge believer in uniforms for schools. Private and public schools. I believe our individualism that has been promoted since day one of this country‘s founding, has become a big problem.

There's a private school in my region that requires girls to wear only skirts and jumpers for their uniform. Tights under the dresses in the cold weather, not pants or leggings. Pants are for boys! Gender matters, people! I wore a uniform and hated it! Too much like prison. We also spent our recess time practicing walking in straight lines as a class, so maybe less rigidity is better. As a poor kid, uniforms were a burden on my family. They're hard to find in everyone's size and hard to find cheaply. Girls weren't allowed to wear polos 30 years ago, just blouses, which was even more challenging (and ensured that male teachers could look through them). So much trauma from uniform days.

Sorry to double-post. The interview with Philip Yancey was lovely. I don't know if y'all reach out to your guests with feedback from their interviews, because maybe there's not much of a point, but if you do - please send him my thanks for appearing on the show. When the atmosphere of the world is quite gloomy, his reminder to look at things through grace-lenses was a breath of fresh air. I'm putting his book on my to-get list for payday.

Regarding the dress code, I agree with Skye's analysis, BUT I'm not sure I agree with his conclusion that the relaxing of the code is bad. Completely agree that there's a societal hyperindividualism that disregards the importance of norms in institutions to create equality. But my questions would be (particularly regarding the dress code): Who decides on the norm? And might there be issues with what the norm is and how it was chosen? My current thought (and to be clear, am still processing) is that following relaxing of the dress code, self-selection will eventually lead our representatives to still dress well ( so as to show respect for the institution and their position), but in a way that reflects a greater diversity of style and culture, which may serve as a better reflection of America. Regardless, really glad they had this discussion. So important to hear and consider other POVs, and to discuss and disagree well. Blessings from the Trinity to you all.

Loved the account Kaitlyn gave about the power of a sermon about the fundamentals of loving your neighbour! As a Canadian Christian I have discovered that there is apparently, even with everything else people have to argue about, NOTHING more likely to cause complaints than declaring that Christians are called to love their neighbour...even if their neighbour doesn't agree...even if they are mistreated by them...even if they are persecuted by them. This is consistent whether the audience is conservative Christian, liberal Christian or atheist (though it seems to be a harder sell with the conservatives, and deists and agnostics seem to have no problem with it). I also have not run across so many bizarre varieties of views on a doctrine of faith (and I have run across a lot of weird beliefs) than on the second greatest commandment. Feels like people have come up with as many excuses as they can think of to give them a way out of loving others in a Christ like manner and speaking, as Paul says, with gentleness and patience with those who don't agree with you. So, YES, please, more teaching on the fundamentals of loving others well! It obviously is thoroughly needed. Not only is it important part of the gospel but your 'global' neighbours would appreciate it if we didn't feel like we were banging our heads on a wall every time we talk to our U.S. brothers and sisters about the fundamentals of the faith. Just generally, in a society so increasingly polarized, we need a reminder that the greatest of all our callings in Christ is to love!

@redhen689

9 ай бұрын

I agree with you. We had a guest speaker at my church, who I know has Christian nationalist leanings. A few months ago he opened his message with a question about what the most profound statement Jesus had made. I was thinking along the lines of loving our neighbors, and the story of the Good Samaritan, and caring for the “least of these”. He went in an entirely different direction.

@ConnorMarc

9 ай бұрын

@@redhen689 what direction did he go?

There are actual studies that show that school uniforms don’t help anyone any more or less than non-uniform options.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

There's a video on Style Theory about this.

@Anabee3

9 ай бұрын

I believe it. As a teen, my next door neighbors/friends went to prep school (Gonzaga prep...as in the high school one goes to before going on to Gonzaga University, in Spokane...the one Jimmy Kimmel says does not exist every basketball season. Lol) Anyway...they require(d) uniforms. The idea was to make it so it wasn't easy to tell who's poor, or not poor. Our Holy Post friends are right, tho. One can tell anyway... Supercuts hair cuts VS $80 haircuts, jewelry, if they had a car b4 legal to drive& what kind. What their parents drove & how THEY dressed, what nbrhd/house they lived in, etc., Clothes seem the LEAST of indicators to tell one's socio-ec standing, considering one can find some pretty nice clothes on good sales or even 2nd hand stores.

@scootervantil

9 ай бұрын

@@makejesusgreatagain7220 I almost posted it with the comment 😅

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

​@@scootervantilI had a feeling you were familiar with that video.

This young lady is deep and wise.

As a suggestion, the Holy Post should interview William Strauss, one of the authors of the Fourth Turning and/or Roy Williams, one of the authors of Pendulum Theory. Both books talk about how history moves in cycles about 80 years. The Fourth Turning predicted the current period we are living in and stated that it's similar to the WW2, Civil War, and Revolutionary War periods that are each about 80 years apart from each other. In Pendulum Theory, they discuss how society swings between individualism to collectivism, which according to them we are currently living in the collectivism period that can probably explain the cancel culture that we see today.

@kimcowling3296

9 ай бұрын

Good suggestions! FYI, Strauss is no longer with us, but Neil Howe is and he’s been doing interviews lately.

I agree with you Skye. Yes, both.

"It's such a deterioration of norms" is the most Pharisaical sentence in the English language. There is nothing good (or bad) about norms; every single one of them should be questioned and held up against our duty as Christians, which is to be holy as he is holy. Do you really think Jesus cares whether a Senator wears a Western-European-origin 21st-century suit? Is wearing a uniform as an adult holier than not wearing one? Does wearing a suit in the Senate chambers show love to others and not wearing that exact kind of suit disavow that love? If not, then there's nothing about it that "deteriorates" when it changes. It just changes.

The message about grace is so important. Sadly, it is undermined by the anti-Semitism inherent in perpetuating ancient tropes about Pharisees. It's great that you don't want to villainize groups today, but you need to go back to this original villainization and pluck it out by the root if you want to have any hope of a healthy Church and/or world.

I think Skye is right about what the suspension of the Senate dress code represents is accurate. There is an idea that things like dress set the mind for expected or desired outcomes. A suit and tie is representative of the utmost professionalism. Though to be fair a senator in an expensive suit is also an image of those tgat have done a lot of damage to the nation and it's people over the last 50 years, longer if your were/are a person melonated.

Children in uniforms in school is good for the purpose of leveling the playing field - this assumes that there isn't some sweetheart deal between the school and an exclusive supplier. Dress codes for adults, on the other hand, don't seem to serve a purpose other than kowtowing to creaky traditions, with the obvious exception of ensuring somebody is clothed enough to hide the naughty bits.

I live in India. My students here who are now in University now miss their days in school uniforms, because now they need to stress and think about what to wear, instead of just putting g on the uniform because it's what they wear. They miss having a little less stress for the day

Ever wonder why so many people hate our God? Listen to this podcast again.

As someone whose son wants to grow up to be a streamer, I would like to invest early in Phil's Podcasting for Dummies book. X3 I loved Me, Myself, and Bob, and would love to see/hear/read a history of the ups and downs of running the News of the Butt Podcast- wait... I mean... XD (I miss News of the Butt. I liked the little bit of silly with my serious. I also insist adults would like coloring pages and puzzles in their magazines, so I may be in a minority.)

YES! Skye is now a Swiftie! Welcome to the club. She's awesome. As for the interview I always have to push back on the idea that Dr King and the CRM was successful. Yes some laws got changed but that wasnt the end goal. In hindsight i wonder if he would maintain nonviolence, as a matter of fact he started to question it himself prior to being murdered, and he kept an arsenal at home. Yikes. His church called MLK Jr, "Martin Lucifer Coon". What else is needed to show that the whole thing, the whole tradition, is irredeemable?

@curtismartin2866

9 ай бұрын

"His"?

@thetruest7497

9 ай бұрын

​@curtismartin2866 not sure what the question is. Can you clarify?

@curtismartin2866

9 ай бұрын

@@thetruest7497 you claim that MLK'S church called him names. I don't think the folks using such language were a part of Ebenezer Baptist.

@thetruest7497

9 ай бұрын

@curtismartin2866 no, Phil Yancey's church called MLK that.

One of things I celebrate and lament about this episode is the acknowledgement of the credible witness of the Black Church as both something to listen to and learn from, as well as the irony that this podcast takes no effort to actually listen to the witness by having guests from the historical Black Church on the show. Maybe it has something to do with the idea that evangelicals think the Black Church still has an inferior theology...who knows. This episode isn't the first time Skye and Kaitlyn have said as much. Please note that there is a stark difference between leaders in and from the Black Church and Black evangelicals, who the show tends to have on. A lot of people in the Black Church don't identify as evangelicals. I also acknowledge that the Black Church isn't the target audience of this show, so I should temper any expectations and other commentary.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

8 ай бұрын

I can't say I know what that's like as a white man, but as a leftist I would really love it for them to have a proper Christian leftist on to explain the difference between leftism and liberalism. Who do you recommend from the historical Black Church?

@KeithBerry

8 ай бұрын

@@makejesusgreatagain7220 I'd recommend listening and reading people Rev. Dr. Jerimah Wright, Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie, Rev. Dr. Howard-John Wesley, and Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III to name a few. There are other luminaries going back further, but I'll invite you to do some Googling.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

8 ай бұрын

​@@KeithBerrythank you so much.

I feel like Skye's support of uniforms comes from his family teaching him to fit in... which is completely fair in our unjust world. For me though I would go the other route, and say if we're going to relax dress codes let's make sure to include everyone

@haveringrob

8 ай бұрын

As a non-military parent, I looovve school uniforms. Makes getting the kids dressed in the morning a snap. No arguments about what they are going to wear. Only needing to go clothes shopping once (usually) for the school year. It leveled the playing field for my kids who were probably the poorest in their school.

The Bible specifically prohibits treating people differently based on how they dress. As a society, the moral is that we judge people by their character, not how they look. The idea that how you dress shows some sort of "disrespect" for others is an idea that attempts to justify judging by looks and treating people differently by their dress. It turns it into a character issue. But how you dress does not harm others. There is no Scripture that says you must dress up, but the opposite. There is no justification for it. People in this world look for excuses to look down on others. We as Christians should not.

So I must be the last one to find out that Mike Nelson of Mystery Science Theatre 3000 is a Christian and apologist? He also has a podcast with his Pastor called With Trees Walking. Umm....Guys? Can we get an interview? Maybe do each other's podcasts? I would love to watch Phil and Mike Nelson discuss ANYTHING!

Phil is the definition of "Gotcha Moment."

"Put on the Lord Jesus Christ"" - the best "dress code" which is a joy to follow!

“That’s suggests that what you fear most of all is - fear.” Prof. Lupin HP Prisoner of Azkaban

Skye at 32:06 -- "it's not that big a deal" -- yes, the issues as presented are not that big a deal; and just before that about the Civil War, that the issues were huge -- I believe that it's profoundly self-deceptive to think that the Emancipation Proclamation, Lee's surrender, Reconstruction and what followed solved those issues -- and if you read KKduMez (J&JW) and RJones (White Too Long) -- never mind Perlstein (BtS, NixL -- not done yet; still to read tIB, ReagL) -- and the post-Obama backlash (ostensibly religio-political but...) it's obvious that the "not that big a deal" issues are really proxies for what's left of the issues that the Civil War didn't solve. So the exasperated tones on "not that big a deal" are mis-placed, frankly. But I pre-agreed with Skye about MHuckabee's irresponsible "last election by ballots" prediction by over a second. That sort of thing should earn anyone an automatic cancel, if only temporarily.

@alliematt1016

9 ай бұрын

To be honest, I am afraid that if Biden wins again, there WILL be violence among Trump supporters. Remind me again whose supporters rioted at the Capitol?

@alexs1359

9 ай бұрын

The really gross thing is that THP has interviewed Dumez and Jones about the books you mentioned - heck, I heard about the books through this podcast - but they don't seem to have internalized the lessons those books imparted. I'm not sure if it's because THP is actually not nearly as smart as they think they are, or if it's a form of virtue signalling, or if it's a form of laziness where they can hitch their wagon to smarter people and get credit for it without having to do the work, or something else entirely, but it's a practice they display constantly. The interviews are still nice for the listeners who have a greater intellectual capacity than they, but it's a real shame to see the main THP crew stagnate. Perhaps even the best evangelicals are still way underdeveloped in how good they can be.

@ansakyt

9 ай бұрын

@@alexs1359 You may be on to something here. I wouldn't say it's "really gross" but I hear you. I'll tell you, that if I thought any of this, or were going to say anything like this, I wouldn't broad-brush the whole of THP with the charges. I have often been frustrated by the bare-faced both-sides-ing I hear from exactly one of the members. Another member's persona seems to take nothing at all particularly seriously in any moment. But in my view this doesn't say whether or not they are internalizing the lessons their guests are presenting. And neither charge (both-sides-ing, nor frivolizing) applies to all of THP. Further, though, I think "the work" of internalizing and re-orienting oneself is not assisted by the constant need to produce material for THP's stream of content. I think the need for "the work" may be less still visible to them because at some level, these guys are still middle-America-based conservative Christians and that's the folks they run with although they are more open to other views than many others of their own ilk. Once upon a time I traveled with one of my kids from Greater Vancouver BC to the same general region where they live, in order to take part in an educational meet-up for kids with a particular academic interest. The thing that struck me was that the only BIPOC kids there were adoptees of white families. I mentioned this to one of the leaders and their answer exhbited oblivion to why that would be. I was oblivious to the causes then, too, but I digress. I suspect some of the same oblivion that afflicts that broader locality here, too. And I would consider my own failure to "live up" (even more than speak up) to the changes these books are effecting in me to be "really gross" far sooner than I would say it about their failure not to alter their long-standing journalistic or personal-style, regardless of my frustration at it. "To understand all is to forgive all"? But I, too, still yearn for Gentle Treatment (see Tolkien's Leaf By Niggle).

Separation of church & state. I struggle w/that bc; don't EVERYONE'S ethics & politics go hand-in-hand? & shouldn't we WANT our nation's laws (the whole WORLD'S laws) to be in alignment with God's laws? // This is my first intro to P. Yancy. I could listen to him ALL DAY!🙂🙏❤

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

The issue is when people misunderstand or misapply God's laws.

@thetruest7497

9 ай бұрын

No. We want laws based on reason, not religious beliefs. Every place that has laws based on religious beliefs is a terrible place to live.

@grjoseph

9 ай бұрын

There are countries where their version of God’s laws are enforced. It’s called Sharia law. Would you be comfortable with that?

@thetruest7497

9 ай бұрын

@@grjoseph those are basically the same as OT laws.

@grjoseph

9 ай бұрын

@@thetruest7497 I see, just your version of God’s laws, which of course are righteous and holy above everyone else’s. I see!

Just had this thought, since the Gospel does not advocate violence as a change agent, then was our Declaration of Independence justified? I have read this document and the Founding Fathers spelled in detail the reasons for their declaration.

@jahbern

3 ай бұрын

I know you posted this months ago, but I wanted to say - YES! The Declaration of Independence was radical and revolutionary for several reasons. It was completely unprecedented for Britain and so very, shall we say, inappropriate. Not necessarily, morally wrong, but certainly shocking in the most pearl-clutching way possible. Literally unthinkable, as we can see from the reactions of the Brits at the time. I challenge my students and kids to think differently and critically about the American Revolution. Not to try to convince that it was “wrong,” but to consider that there was a whole lot more going on than “taxation without representation.”

The lady is soo smart .

Your experience in the white evangelical church is radically different than mine. They reach out to the ethnic outsider more than most....

Huckabee’s “fruit” is violence… so bad that it’s murderous in wanting to defend his unbiblical ideology. We know what Jesus said about those who produce bad fruit; it’s not going to go well for Huckabee and many others like him on judgment day. “You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? … Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.” -Matthew 5:16,19 “The LORD examines both the righteous and the wicked. He hates those who love violence.” -Psalm 11:5 “Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.” -1 John 3:15 “You have heard that our ancestors were told, ‘You must not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.’ But I say, if you are even angry with someone, you are subject to judgment! If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the court. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of hell.” -Matthew 5:21-22 “Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers. And many will turn away from Me and betray and hate each other … and the love of many will grow cold.” -Matthew 24:9-10,12

@40:52 Phil dropping truth bombs! 💣💥 This is such a good episode, everyone is so on point in part 1! 🎙Please turn your mic up next time though, Phil, your levels are lower than Skye or Kaitlyn's 🙂

So, I understand some of where Skye is coming from, but think the dress code as a sign of institutional degradation is a bit murky, only because the change coincides with Fetterman coming back from a mental health related absence from the senate... the grandstanding in the house of representatives is a far more illustrated demonstration of individual's putting themselves above the institution. And this all goes back to Newt Gingrich basically changing how the two party system conducts itself in making legislation, this is where that narrow minded calculation leads.

@ZipplyZane

9 ай бұрын

Treating clothing as more important than action is the problem. The stuff in the House actually harms people. How Fetterman dresses does not. It's weird to me how "Christians" come up with excuses to judge people for things that aren't sins.

@alexs1359

9 ай бұрын

@@ZipplyZane It's a real shame the Bible says nothing about caring about appearances or rules over the welfare of your neighbor. Or I assume that's the case from how Skye & evangelicals in general talk.

Promising Young Woman was a great film.

Dress codes are important. It communicates respect and professionalism. The cancerous trend of informal dress has not only infected public institutions but the church as well. The informal dress seen on megachurch stages ( i.e. hip pastor) has contributed to the moral decay in churches. The idea of dressing down as a means of being more "cultually relevant" has been accompanied with attitudes that have advanced sewer-grade progressive christianity, which is no christianity at all. Also, the "power dynamic" defense of informal dress is erroneous on every level but very much consistent with a snowflake worldview. The fact that some people can dress higher than others is reality, not injustice. Get over it.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

You came here to complain about how offended you are by other people while you called them a *checks notes* "snowflake". That's about the level of self awareness that I would expect from someone with your position on progressive Christianity.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

Also, telling people to "get over" poverty rather than, you know, actually helping them, is about as far away from Jesus as you can get.

If Fetterman"s dress code is symbolic, but not Trump's four years of shredding our country's norms, then I can't take Skye seriously.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

It's amazing to me how many people see them as being radical left when they say things like this.

@ConnorMarc

9 ай бұрын

@@makejesusgreatagain7220 "them" being The Holy Post, right? If so, that just goes to show how far to the extreme right the people lobbing those terms at them are. That's all that is.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

​​​@@ConnorMarcyes, THP. Absolutely.

@makejesusgreatagain7220

9 ай бұрын

​@@ConnorMarc of course, that's giving the people that say that credit for watching them, which they probably rarely if ever do.

I greatly enjoyed the episode but I was hoping you would talk about Canada giving a standing ovation to a nazi soldier. Well, maybe next time

@amandahealey2216

9 ай бұрын

Wait, when was this?

@eon4901

9 ай бұрын

@@amandahealey2216 last Friday. Check it out

CANNOT WAIT FOR THE TAYLOR SWIFT THEOLOGY 101!!

Start saying, "did a research" commonly, and I'll know whom to hate for further degradation of our language. (kidding, but losing accusative personal and relative pronouns is still causing me a sense of loss)

I am 100% in favor of school uniforms. Cheaper for families, equals the playing field in education.

For you "swifties"... are you leading people to Christ with your "information"? This is the ONLY thing to consider when you pontificate on worldy issues. Time is TOO short, to be "milkish" about The Most High God. I'm struggling to get through this video, so I'll leave.