Be sure to watch my video of 5 Reasons Cities Skylines is a Better Game here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/faWHktGoY8naZLg.html

@Joso997

5 жыл бұрын

Well not true sometimes few buildings combine to make a one big one, it looks rather awesome

@shemailgoondall9531

3 жыл бұрын

@@Joso997 AGREE, this is a great city builder game. But sim city 4 is game that no other city builder game could compete against. I.love to build a very posh commercial district, limit the size. Then pit suburban type residential so i can have white collar workers. Then near the induatrial area i got hill.billy bungalows. And then, what we all love to do. Build the ghetto. I usually build em chicago style. Along the highway. Put elevates train lines and bus stops. Giant schools where i got 900 students to a capacity of 700. Underfund the public hospitals because they cost alot. Limit the police coverage, not cause i want my sims to commit crime, but cant afford multiple medium and major police station every 4 or 5 blocks. Btw. Did you notice, when you zoom in, in the projects, all the sims are either black or brown. Sim city 4. Is a masterpiece becsuse it includes all the sociological and financial aspects to a large city/metropolis.

The thing about Cities Skylines is that, behind the all the freedom it gives you to make a city look the way you want, is just that, a cool empty box. Once you have realized that, you will see that even with all the DLCs there is no gameplay focused on the management of the city. It’s a good sandbox for those who just want to create a beautiful city but they don’t want to strugle with its management. Simcity 4 on the other hand, gives you a more challenging experience runing and managing a city. When I play SimCity 4 I feel like a mayor. When I play Cities Skylines I feel like an architect or an urbanist.

@mikemaceda3222

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the perspective. Always wondered what was the difference between them. 👍

@tj-co9go

2 жыл бұрын

I feel like it just a better version of SimCity (2013). It is nothing like the older SimCity games like SimCity4 SimCity 3000, SimCity 2000 or the original SimCity. And I like the original spirit, which SimCity 4 lifted to its peak.

@MrCodyWarner

2 жыл бұрын

That’s the same reason I don’t really play Planet Coaster.

@legallas393

2 жыл бұрын

Cities skylines about building, SimCity 4 about city

@FutureMan420Blazer

Жыл бұрын

This! Words of wisdom.

City Skylines is just about the look, where you design a good looking city and that's it, a totally soul-empty game. There is no real life management issues, human issues such as unemployment, protests like Sim City. Citizens in SC are much more difficult to please, schools require increased budgets, hospitals overloaded, etc, they complain about multiple problems at the same time. In City Skylines it's just about water, power, etc and everything is solved 2 seconds after you place a service utility nearby. City skylines is like a soulless lego boxes to me. Sim City is much more human.

I used to play cities skylines because I thought it be a great city building game. Turns out, it takes 10 minutes to load a map. Just brought sim city 4 and I dont regret it. And plus, no dlcs, you know what I mean?

>makes video comparing 2 games >doesn't show even 1 second of footage from game that's supposedly the better one

@captain4318

3 жыл бұрын

> makes video with title 5 Reasons You May Like SimCity 4 more than Cities: Skylines! > MAY > gives 5 reasons why one could potentially enjoy another game more > fanboys still getting mad and feel like they need to defend another game with all they got.

@Aenahea

2 жыл бұрын

Flaminghead1va then just buy simcity4 deluxe (4 bucks) or just watch a video about it idiot

If I remember correctly, only a single city in a region is simulated at a time in SC4, and all the others are frozen in time. If that's the case, the actual size of a simulated city is several times, depending on what mods you have, smaller in SC4 than in Skylines.

Wow, this video got brigaded by Cities: Skylines fans

@guidoferri8683

3 жыл бұрын

It's 100% footage of cities skylines after all

SimCity 4 is a game i still love to this day

I love cities Skylines too, but even Sim City 2013 has a lot of things that are better than Cities Skylines. If the map size wasn't so small and traffic/transport was more detailed and realistic if would have been the best city builder game

@TheJedimaster6788

10 ай бұрын

honestly the ONLY thing wrong with simcity 2013 is the size of the plots

>complain about small population and no traffic >show several unsolved traffic jams :D

We only need a SC4 remake to work perfectly with 1000 mods in modern computers.

@laterreurdelanuit8750

3 жыл бұрын

yh a SC4 in 4K with cities that are the size of actuel lands.

@zachfenton608

5 ай бұрын

Should make a remake with mods

I think the SimCity 4 region system was awesome. Even with an average PC you could build huge metropolitan areas by adding up tiles. Here's what I'd like to see in Cities Skylines : 1) First you create a region of 50x50km to 100x100km. You can roughly terraform the entire region as one map but can't do anything else yet. Once you've roughly terraformed your region you can decide the position of the tiles as well as their size. If you've got a potato PC you can use small tiles and if you're confident in your PC you can use larger tiles. Once you've done that you can't go back. You can't terraform on a regional level, you can't move tiles, but you can merge them together if for example you get better PC hardware. Each tile works exactly like a current Cities Skylines game : you can build, terraform, etc... Just like in SC4 your current tile can exchange stuff with the tiles next to it, but anything outside of your tile doesn't change until you open it. It'd be nice to have a fixed low quality render of the other tiles at the border so you can have a rough idea of how your city sits next to the rest of the area. 2) When it comes to traffic, I find Cities Skylines disappointing and that's partly due to how they manage population density. Having all these roads and public transit options is awesome compared to SC4 but traffic is a mess. - Small residential homes get way too many people living in them and you get 4 lane avenues going through "quiet" suburban neighborhoods. That's _using_ TM:PE. - High density zones on the other hand don't pose as much of a traffic challenge as they should due to the little amount of people who live in them. - The game doesn't manage parking, which is a huge part of city building. People ingame would use their cars a lot less if they didn't have the option to just put it in their pocket. - There has to be a better way to handle narrow angle intersections, at least for freeway on and off ramps. Seeing cars merge into the freeway at a near 45° angle hurts my OCD. 3) Some mods need to be integrated in the game. TM:PE, roundabout builders, parallel road tool, move it, ... 4) More ways to color terrain. 5) More bridge types. 6) Bigger farms but also bigger factories. 7) Just like in SC4, being able to zone (up to a certain limit) the exact dimensions of each plot. But just like in CS you should still be able to zone a big chunk of land. 8) Instead of always having to build pipes and powerlines myself, it'd be nicer to be able to upgrade my roads to handle these services. You should still be able to build independant pipes and powerlines. Managing sewage and internet would be nice too. 9) And finally, the game needs to be futureproof regarding PC hardware. In 10 or 20 years I should be able to run better texture files, set higher densities of polygons, draw huge tiles with millions of inhabitants and tens of thousands of nodes without being limited by the game. In other words, limitations should be as much as possible hardware limitations instead of ingame limitations. Boy if they can manage that I can't even imagine the beautiful stuff people will be building 20 years from now. Now of course, these developpers don't have unlimited resources and need to make a buck. But it doesn't hurt to dream. PS : Theme and assets management could be made better. I don't know how many times I've downloaded assets and put them in a theme and ending up deleting it all because it doesn't work...

@persel_hd

11 ай бұрын

Citystate II is also a very good new Citybuilder, with a good pop scaling and a Region Mode.

I played both and my #1 issue with Skylines is: -- Lack of Goals -- There is only 1 goal in Skylines, and that's population. A certain population amount unlocks whatever buildings. In SimCity there are a bunch of little goals. I might need to upgrade a building to unlock another. I might get loot if I compleate one of the little quests. How can I get more tourists to my casino? and so on.

@flaminghead1va

5 жыл бұрын

exactly! We get it that it's a great sandbox, but that doesn't have to be ALL it is. They can add all the models, mechanics, bells and whistles they want, but I agree at the end of the day it needs goals or objectives to feel worthwhile

What we really need is a new Simcity game.

@ghostrs2754

3 жыл бұрын

nope, cities skylines is best one no need to replace it :c

@GimpyUnicorn

3 жыл бұрын

After the tragedy of Sim City 2013, it just proved that EA is no longer capable of making good games. Just another series they ruined.

@susangoaway

Жыл бұрын

@@ghostrs2754 Sim City 4 still reigns supreme

@circleinforthecube5170

7 ай бұрын

@@GimpyUnicorn EA didint make simcity, MAXIS did, You like MAXIS, not EA, unfortunately they got bought out and shut down

@warmike

6 ай бұрын

@@GimpyUnicorn they made Battlefield 1 three years after that. Though now that series has gone to shit as well.

Simcity 4 has better performance and lower system requirements ... I like simcity 4 better because of that

@karlg2164

2 жыл бұрын

uh i literally play cities in 4gb ram...it works perfectly fine

@HayleyAnjuna

2 жыл бұрын

well SimCity 4 actually needs a lot of memory , 8 GB or more is recommended by the NAM team.

@Aenahea

2 жыл бұрын

MajaMystic256 hahahaha sim city 4 deluxe lags more than city skylines

@miauw8762

2 жыл бұрын

@@Aenahea you have to run it on 1 core that fixes the problem

@miauw8762

2 жыл бұрын

@@Aenahea you have to run it on 1 core that fixes the problem

3 remarks. A, On lot size / grid reach: Limiting the depth of a lot to 32 meters does indeed make an area with high rise buildings look very unrealistic, especially if you compare it to an American downtown. This limitation being chosen may have to do with the fact that the game instead of the player decides the lot size. In SC4 you could decide how you wanted a block to be divided into lots, so you had much more control. If C:S had grids extending 10 squares from a road, there would be several problems: 1st: It would be hard to indicate to the player what a reasonable block size would be. 2nd: It would be hard for the game to decide how many squares to use for each lot. 3rd: If you want more realism, the lot depth would differ between low and high density zones. 4th: If the game had to show the player that the zoning is too far from a road on a square-by-square basis, the view could very quickly become cluttered. I can imagine an easy fix though: When you build a road, the first 4 squares of the zoning grid are drawn with solid lines and the next 6 squares with dotted lines. If you zone the grid with low density zones, only the first 4 squares are zoneable. If you select a high density zoning tool, all squares are drawn solidly and zoning the first N squares from the road unlocks the zonability of the next row of squares (and of course, this is checked by the game in a way that drawing in all 10 squares at once is made possible). If you have the high rise ban active for some district, in that district only 7 squares from the road are drawn solid and zoneable with high-density zones. B, On population density, building occupancy, agent limit and full Cim lifetime simulation: The one big advantage that this simulation achieves is that it allows for a more realistic traffic simulation. But then on the other hand, the base C:S game does not give you the necessary tools to effectively manage that traffic because "that complexity is not suitable for casual players". On the other hand, if you want your game to be suitable for casual gamers, why would you need a hyper-realistic simulation? As far as I'm concerned, as long as the game simulates all relevant aspects of a cities overall population (which includes realistic density, education and wealth, the fact that Cims will not only move into your city at age 30 only and also die all at once, ...), that's a good enough simulation for me. I don't need every single car to be simulated or the ability to follow a Cim around the city for their entire lifetime. C, As far as the current difficulty of C:S is concerned I think a 6th flaw is that the game is not actually challenging enough that your decisions actually matter. It really feels more like a sandbox than a simulation. I haven't yet encountered a single instance where any simulation would be necessary and you couldn't just simply make the buildings' graphics upgrade based on the number of service needs you fulfill. D, On wealth: Technically, C:S does simulate wealth. It's just strictly tied to education. All highly educated Cims are assumed to be rich, and being uneducated is strictly the same as being poor (or working in a job that does not require any education automatically makes a Cim poor, I don't know to what factor wealth is tied). Also, in contrast to SC4, the C:S engine does allow buildings to have occupants with a mix of different wealth/education levels. The disadvantage of C:S regarding wealth is that single stat of a building is determining both wealth and occupancy, while in reality they would actually be largely anti-correlated. I guess the fact that the occupation density of poor(/uneducated) Cims is the same as for rich(/educated) Cims is a direct consequence of the agent limit. If your engine limits you to 80 Cims per high rise building, it does not make a lot of sense to have that number differ between high and low wealth occupants. Again, it would not be impossible to just replace the 1-dimensional "occupant count" progression system for building upgrades with a 2-parameter "building size and apartment luxury" progression system. If you make the education/wealth level of cims that a building primarily attracts relatively strictly tied to its luxury level and make both larger and less luxurious buildings contain more apartments, you basically have the same "poorer sims are housed more densely than rich sims" effect from SC4 that you described. There indeed is a lot of inspiration that the developers could take from SC4 if they ever want to make Cities:Skylines 2.

CITY SKYLINES I Logged about 1001 Hours since 2015 . HANDS DOWN BEST GAME I PLAYED IN YEARS SINCE SIMCITY4 . Simcity 4 I PLAYED THE GAME SO MUCH THE DISK #1 STOPPED READING AND DVD DRIVE STOPPED WORKING. BACK IN 2003. I CREATED CHICAGOLAND AREA.. 1.5 Million connecting everything.

@BlazertronGames

5 жыл бұрын

chris sobie DO YOU HAVE TO TYPE LIKE THIS?

@Irishbloke

4 жыл бұрын

I got simcity4 last year and got a city up to 11 million people, there were 3 large regions alone that had over 1 million

Most city builder games players want from their game a relaxing experience to customize their cities. True management games fans are rare and they know that SC4 is far more refined and deeper.

Loool I just pretend that my city's population is x10 what the game says. Seems more realistic

@PlanetLinuxChannel

5 жыл бұрын

Abraham 123 I do the exact same!

@Joso997

5 жыл бұрын

But traffic stops growing after 40k

@Evokyr

5 жыл бұрын

@@Joso997 For real? I never use any mods that increases population so my CPU won't be killed or there will be traffic jams in each street.

@Ultrasemen

5 жыл бұрын

@@Evokyr it's not because of mods, game has 16k agent limit meaning it's impossible to have more than 16k agents (cars, pedestrians, etc). So when you have really big population agent limit makes your cities look totally deserted.

@Evokyr

5 жыл бұрын

@@Ultrasemen I never reached that point because I build with tiny details and plop every single building and decorate the surroundings. But I can imagine it looks weird in huge cities.

SimCity 4 is a statistics simulator. You can have goods flowing despite no vehicles visible. Cities: Skylines is a cim/sim simulator. If you don't have any vehicles running, no amount of connection will fulfill that need of goods. I agree that it's not realistic, but I'm not playing it on a high-end supercomputer.

Why your video doesn't show Simcity 4?

@MiskT

5 жыл бұрын

Because I'm talking about the faults of Cities Skylines and I'm demonstrating them throughout the video. There's a good chance I will redo these videos in 2019 with footage of both games mixed throughout

Cities Skylines just feel so empty, it feels soulless. In CS, cities do not look realistic, your high-rises are too small, the population living in those high-rises are too little, and overall not much is going on in the game once you progress 3-4 town levels. I hope one day EA will remaster Simcity4 and we will experience the epicness of it once again

Personally I think one issue that annoys the hell outta me with Skylines, is agricultural zones, why, because they're just so small and pitiful. And yes, I know farms are only useful early game in SC4 but come on, if you're going to have a farm it's going to be a couple acres of land, not 40m bt 40m (if that is how big tiles are is Cities Skylines, just a rough estimate.

@MiskT

5 жыл бұрын

Exactly, you could have realistically huge farms in simcity 4, though with the new Industries DLC for cities skylines, they are fixing this big time

@rohanhalle580

5 жыл бұрын

They always put the patch in the DLC

Sim City teaches you the basics of the game where as City Skylines barely has a tutorial, that's enough for me.

I have Sim City 4, Deluxe. I like how you don't get DLCs because all you need is included in the package ( unlike City Skylines). Saying that, I also have City Skylines too. They are just as good as each other.

Heads up on SC4 regions, the standard regions that you get by clicking "new region" are 15 small tiles on a side, and each small tile is 1.024km to a side, so that means it's (15*1.024)^2 = 235.9296km2

@MiskT

6 жыл бұрын

+Bethany Bloomfield geez, that puts cities skylines into perspective lol

@madelynvillanueva8619

6 жыл бұрын

I like math now haha😁😁

@El_Presidente_5337

6 жыл бұрын

France is 643.801 km² big. That means you have in SimCity 4 1/3 of France just for you

@KevinStoffel

6 жыл бұрын

Cities skylines maps are bigger. In Simcity 4, there are, as you say, 15 small tiles on a side of the map, and each map is 1.024kms, so, as you note, total area of 235.9296 sq kms. However, Cities Skylines is 9 tiles on a side, where each tile is made up of 250 8x8 meter cells, totaling 2kms per tile, or 18 kms per side. 18^2 = 324. That means that Skylines has 1.37x the area of Simcity 4.

@symphwind

6 жыл бұрын

The original poster was using the American (English-speaking? Dunno, I've only lived in the US) representation of numbers, so the "." is a decimal point rather than a thousands separator. France is 643,801 km2 (643.801 in the European notation) or ~3000x larger than SC4's region, which is 235.9 (235,9 in the European notation). SC4 is big, but not that THAT big :)

SC4 is a better simulator and complex than Cities: Skylines, but skylines is more like a creative game, more easy to sit and play. The only thing CS is more complex than SC4 is on the traffic/road management.

I loved simcity 2013 with the import and exports and recycled plant also the casinos i miss that game

@MiskT

5 жыл бұрын

That is the ONE THING I was hoping industries would bring to Cities skylines and it has truly failed in that aspect :(

@rockxstarx4945

5 жыл бұрын

@@MiskT yes it did might get sc again

low pop to reduce lag

Skylines is still better because those skyscrapers are providing an entire floor for each family! Better quality of life for your people :P

@redocious8741

6 жыл бұрын

Vic 2.0 yeah.... 20 floors eight families

@Vic2point0

6 жыл бұрын

I was being silly. But in all seriousness, all that matters to me is if the game is more enjoyable overall. Just like any game from other genres, realism is secondary to fun factor, and Skylines will always be more fun than Sim City.

@schzean

6 жыл бұрын

+Vic 2.0 - yes - engaging is what CS is. Sim City 4 became less interesting b/c they didn't keep improving it and then somehow came up with the CF that SC5/2013 is.

🤔 Hmm I shall do a city with only low density residential and no high density residential whatsoever (commercial as well).

@akadespot5451

4 жыл бұрын

Don't, The mid-density is better choice.

population count is lower in this game because it simulates everything about that person

@Joso997

5 жыл бұрын

But it breaks traffic after 40k

@LightsEShadows

4 жыл бұрын

yeah and thats why it sucks..... not properly well done.

@EctoGamer

4 жыл бұрын

@@Joso997 You're not road designers if your traffic sucks it's probably your fault...

The points about population and agent limits are valid but not suitable for an comparision with Sim City 4. You make it sound like SC is better at simulating these things. While in reality it has no agents - it is very simple in it's simluation aspect. But an agent system in my view is the better way to simulate a city, and is closer to the real world. Don't get me wrong I'm very unhappy with the limits C:S has (64k active moving people, 16k vehicles, 200 or 250?k routings, ...) But you can also comapre that to games that simluate multiple needs of people like Tropico or Banished. You see a much lower pop limit and you have to take care about their needs a lot more. C:S also has to handle pathing throught the whole region. Whan you switch to another section is SC4 you are in an isolated aquarium. Nothing to add to point 3: bigger than 4x4 building would be great. Also I'd like expandable buildings as in SC5. For point 2; absolutly correct that C:S does not differenciate between density and wealth. That's simply a missing feature/aspect. Sadly it's not possible to have high density poor communites with higher crime potencial and problems. The conclusions you draw are not 100% spot on. In Europe the rich people historically would prefere city centres with small historical buildings and poor ones go to the districts with terrace houses or (later) panel building towers. In North America historically the rich live in small houses away from the city and the poor in the city centres (it changes a bit now).

@MiskT

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the huge response! I just feel like the ability to simulate all these agents comes at the cost of not actually getting to simulate a large city. I get that Unity is an awesome engine to start a brand new franchise on, but to truly move forwards with its successors, it will need an engine that can handle many times more (millions would be freaking sweet). While SimCity 4's simulation is extremely rudimentary, it still gets the job done. It shows where the people are commuting, it calculates power usage, water usage, school attendance, commercial traffic (shopping centers won't thrive in places with no people), air pollution from cars and factories, etc. I guess I really enjoy the "macro" approach to city simulation where if i wanted to make a 1:1 scale of the entire city of Beijing, or any other massive real life city, I can do it. As for the wealth to population density, whether it's the European model, or American, or Asian, just having some kind of wealth simulation separate from density would be extremely welcome. Wealth plays such a huge factor into city design and services provided. Anyways, I think I will try to make a Simcity 4 video (especially now that I have a way to run it well and record it) showing the pitfall and successes of Simcity 4. I LOVE both games and i'd really love to go into detail about everything. Maybe I'll even hop in SC5 and show what makes it work and why it is a game designed to be played for 20 hours or less.

on Simcity BuildIt, more than 7k people live in one building

Megalopolis 2015: 50k Megalopolis 2017: 60k Megalopolis 2020: 70k Megalopolis 2021: 90k Megalopolis 2025: 500k Megalopolis 2050: 3m

Very good points, good video. I still actively play Sim City 4 (in a region with 20x20 very large tiles). Just one thing that bugs me: As I said, I still play SC4 and understand all you're points. But somebody who never played it can't get your points. They might even think you making this up because let's be honest, how the fuck could a freakin' 2003 game outperform a 2016 game? What I say is you should also show your SC4 city or some other ones city to give examples. Because you're showing the problem in Cities Skylines but not the SC4 counterpart. But still all in all good video.

@zachfenton608

5 ай бұрын

Sc4 is way ahead of it's time and still modern with the mods minus all the crashing

When it comes to traffic and size, Cities: skylines has it all. Thats because the CS team worked on a previous game about transportation and such. However, if you want to focus about in depth look of buildings, different styles, analysis in the urban development and being overall city focus, Simcity takes it by storm. Thats why I always preferred Simcity over Cities: Skylines. I wish Simcity would have stuck with the classic single player mode, if that was the case, it would have killed Cities: Skylines off the market. However, I do give them the props for trying to make an online city building game. They just needed to either have a much bigger space or, shrink the buildings down in size. None the less, I give them props for trying. They still remain the only City Online building game on the market. Simcity is truly the first in a lot of stuff. And at the end, they were the first to create an online city building game that could have been revolutionary if they just tweaked it a bit. Servers crashed because of the amount of people that were on the game at the same time. The developers didn't even expect that many people to buy and play the game. So in a way, popularity killed the game lmao!

SC4 for me is better due to the freeways and roads looking more realistic with merging lanes and on ramps and off ramps being better. Also the management of the city and the city itself looks more like you would see it on Google Earth.

Do you know how hard it is to simulate 1 million Cims? Each Cims has a full life simulation (home, car, work family ect). SimCity 4 didn’t have simulation close to that.

@MiskT

4 жыл бұрын

I'm sure a hybrid system could be made, it's a matter of unity being quite inefficient and would probably require a custom engine purpose-built to handle it. The scale of Simcity 4 seemed impossible to people before it was released, just a matter of time

@Aenahea

2 жыл бұрын

Ramone I don’t think that matters that much still city skylines has no poverty, unrealistic households,etc

@mrgooglethegreat

2 жыл бұрын

@@Aenahea i agree. After all these years i tried cities skylines for the first time over the holiday season and im already over it. Sim City 5 me please. Add all the SC4 mods to a new SC5 game same graphics and im good forever on games.

@ketaminepoptarts

Жыл бұрын

thats another reason someone might like sc4 over cities skylines, if they have a low end computer then they'll be able to get a large city without their computer sounding like a jet engine, or the city becoming unplayable

I never really got the hang of Cities: Skylines. I much prefer SC4.

Buildings in NYC don't have 2,000 apartments. Some colossal buildings have 1,000, but that is about it.

Are you using any mods for your growable skyscrapers in your city? Because I don't have alot of these designs and variety for my Level 5 High Denisty Commercial, Office, and Residential.

@ Tech Dive Gaming How do we contact you in regards to doing a beta test or a review for our game?

I guess even the city simulators get gentrified these days.

Naa, i prefer Cities Skylines, becauses, you got a workshop, so very easy access to mods, savegames, maps etc. You can use curved roads and railroads, you have functional footways, functional canals etc. Cities Skylines got more stuff for public transport (trams!), oh, and it still get new official stuff added like soccer games (manage the traffic before and after a big game). Sim City 4 is dead for me, sure, its easier to create a city in SimCity4, because, you have only tiles to respect.

@shwetaathavale3412

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. But simcity 4 is not dead. But Citis Skyline is far better than in micro management than simcity 4. Additional game installers like mass transit and after dark an so on makes it complex like real cities. Simcity 4 is fun to play but for serious gamers cities skylines is the choice

Sim cities 4 does objectively win in farming no question il give ya that.

Number 1 can be changed with a density mod so big sky scrapers have 300 employees and 100 households in a high density apartment.

some good criticism, very good points, even if it's completely one-sided :) I hope for a future game, Paradox switches engine to one able to handle many cims without crashing (and also optimizes the crap out of it). Also maybe have the ability to connect the cities you make, making them neighbours (maybe share industry/commerce, connect water and power supplies), that would be nice. I think they should also depend a bit less on mods, as in, if there's a mod out there that is really popular (such as the traffic manager mod), then it should be incorporated into the game, as it clearly fixes a problem people are having.

@schzean

6 жыл бұрын

Actually Paradox has incorporated a number of things from mods. They added street light / stop sign controls, better bus info/options, better road building tools to make it easier to make roads parallel, etc. The thing about mods is they break the game every time they do a release. I use very few.

0:21 hol up no one talking how that plane literally flew through a mountain just to get to the airport???

Im sure that there is real legal reasons that Cities wasn't made to mimic Sc4 exactly, I just liked that you could drive the train in sc4

@ETBONIFACIO

3 жыл бұрын

And you can really act like a mayor.

I will answer a few of the statements and tell why it is like it is. First of. There is one major diffrance between SimCity 4 and Cities Skylines. Cities skylines uses agents, SimCity uses statistics. In SimCity 4.. when you se a car on the road, its not really there. Its just a representation of a statistical system that show traffic statistics as vehicles. In Cities Skylines, every single person or vehicle is simulated by it self. So there is no problem for SimCity 4 to have a billion population. its just crushing statistics. 5: The reason for this is pretty simple. They try to bring down the number of agents. In Simcity 2013 they use a hybrid model. They simply multiply the agent represnetation with some large value, like if i remember correctly 200. The number of agents in Simicity 2013 was rediclusly smal. The point that Cities Skylines developer wanted to do was make it possible for someone with a average computer to build a large city. The developers didn´t want to fake the numbers, because Sim City did that and got a lot of criticism for it. And honestly, i don´t blaim them. There is no agent limit. Cities Skylines can run just fine over a miljon agents. But there is a limitation to the number of cars. Its really about game performance. There is a other reason. The Agents are a lot more active than people are in real life. The agents is pretty much always out and about. This increase the traficflow to unrealistic level. I think they moddelled the agent density to get a realistic traffic level. Of cause they could in theory have swiching passive and aktive agents, but there is really no memory constrants. So they could just as easialy just add more agents and imply a spawning limit 4: Yea.. the tear system is really upp side down. They sould be able to change it quite easialy. I think a problem here is that the plot is hardwired to the building. If they disconecter the two it would work better. If they change the taxing a bit it would be more proftible to have fewer richer people in the city. I think its more of that they din´t think it throw when they made the game. 3: The reason for the tile size limit it because of fixed buildings to plots. To make the game simpler to program they just fixed buildings to plots. This is a large part of how they could make the game on 17 person staff. So there is at least one building of every type for every possible plot size. 1x1, 1x2, (1x3?), (1x4?), 2x2, 2x3, 2x3, 2x4, 3x3, 3x4 and 4x4. So there are 10 types of every single typ of industry and building game. So for the smale one 1x1 and 1x2 there really just exist one type. And for the larger one, like 3x3, 3x4 and 4x4, a lot of the assets is just copies with different plot size. This is also partly due to curvature of roads, the tile size is a lot smaler on Cities skyline than SimCity, needing more different assets. There buy limiting the top size to 4x4 to lower the amount of work needed. In Sim City this was really not a issue. Because all tiles are Squared, they didn´t need to bother about curved roads. So they could make the tiles bigger, the building more realistic size. In Sim City 4 there is also a minimum tile number for high rises (2x2, equivalent to 4x4 for skylines) There is a solution to this problem. But its really not solvable int he current framework of Cities Skylines. I would hope that they to Cities skylines 2 separate plot and building. This is really the result of a very smal team making a really large game, cutting corners where its not obvious visible. And i would say.. its not really that many people that have notice, so i would say that is a sucessfull corner cutting. But i do agree. I hope they higher a hand full of extra programmeras to the next version and fix those kind of problems. For the farms.. and also industry. I would say. Only building should be zoned. Resource garthering (like fealds) should be in the areas 2: The reason why you can´t do this in Cities skyline is because its agents based. In Sim City 4 that is statistics based, it don´t matter if the city is enormous. As long as nothing changes, all values are static. So its simple to just render a image of the city, push the roads out and have a static flow. Simcity 2013 uses a simular method but does it with a hybrid with the agents. I don´t really se a point in linking cities this way. As long as they are not really interconected, and then the agnets need to be transfered. In Sim City 2013 they just solved it by having a redliculasly low number of agents. In a way. Cities skyline alreddy uses this method. Its only the tiles just close to you that is fully simulated. The tiles longer away is simulated more roguishly. So a full Cities skyline map is really 81 cities close together simulated in two different way. They could probobly pretty easy just ad more tiles simulating 100 or 200 or 400. But the agent simulation will still tax the system There is also the issue of the old Unity don´t fully support multicore system. You can run multiple processes as long as they are in different threads. And having a dussin or so threads for different kind of objects is not really a issue. In the same threed, like the agent simulation it need to be handled in the same theed in the old unity because they are interdependent. But in the new Unity engine that can run full multicore support, one can have multicore in the same database, eliminating this problem. Personaly i think this is a brilliant system... well that i suggested a system like this years a go, might make me a bit bias. But its pretty much the way forward to make huge cities. The passive simulation need waaay less computing power. So that is why they could afford to have a full 56 passive tiles in the game (before the mods to unlock them came). Also. The passive tile simulation and the active agent simulation don´t run in the same threed, and there for don´t need to be run on the same core. Making it so even with a 2 core CPU (it should be resonable hackable to increase the number of tiles in the game) I´m kindof supriced that you could not fit a 30k citie in the 18x18 km size. I live 6 miles outside of a 40k city. And even my house can fit into the 18x18 grid with really no issue. 1: there is no agent limit. There is not even a soft agent limit in the game. You can have what ever number of agent you want. The game limits the agents indirectly by limiting the number of vehicles that can spawn.

@side-fish

6 жыл бұрын

I actually think SimCity 2013s way of simulating agents would have been the best compromise in a large cities kind of situation. Mind you, people were mad because the developers said that everything was simulated when in fact, the game starts inflating numbers after reaching a certain population. People just don't like being lied to but otherwise, if the system requirements for everything to be simulated by agents is very high, this would have been a good compromise. You get your simulation, and you get your realistic building stats.

@matsv201

6 жыл бұрын

"I actually think SimCity 2013s way of simulating agents would have been the best compromise in a large cities kind of situation" Yea.. that might be true. i have a feeling that skylines crew avoided it because it got to much criticism, some of it was not quite fair. SimCities 2013 did quite a number of things good. But Skylines pretty much did the opposite of everything. I would say that the zoning and the uppgrades was better in Sim 2013 to. " the game starts inflating numbers after reaching a certain population. " Yes.. but also have in mind that the agent simulation was partly faked as well. In Sim 2013 all agents are identical. In Skylines every agent have a smal number of traits. "if the system requirements for everything to be simulated by agents is very high" I really don´t think this is a issue nowdays. They probobly even could run the simulation on GPU:s nowdays. Even with a mediocre could easily simulate milion citizens. A way to do this that i have tinkeld with is to decrease the ticks for agents not in view down to one tick every 5 seconds. And for the one in view to 4 ticks a second, and then just interpolate the rest.

@side-fish

6 жыл бұрын

I never quite liked the zoning of either actually. SimCity 4's was superior in this regard. I also don't like that building density was based on traffic. It's kinda silly as there's even less control. Reducing the tick rate seems like a practical way to approaching the problem.

@matsv201

6 жыл бұрын

Well... the issue is that Skylines have both curved roads and full 3:d terrain. What they did in Skylines was of sort emulating this. But because of two intersectioned roads may not have exactly 90 degree angle at all times this creates a few issues. Also on a curved squares next to each other will not be in the same angle. There for on curved roads one might sometimes get sections that is just one square wide. There is a other way of doing this. Is would be to have vector based plots. I understand why they didn´t do this. that would take a bit more work, but i hope they do it in the next version. Would really make the game way more flexible. "Reducing the tick rate seems like a practical way to approaching the problem" What they really would need is adaptable tick rate. This way they can have 100 miljon agents, and just simulate 500k or so on each tick. I would say.. probobly would not have it any longer than 5 second tick then the desyncronisation when pushing it back to 4 tick a second would be to high.

mods and assets make Cities Skylines far more superior than any other city builder. period

@svenbrede6151

5 жыл бұрын

Mods make the player experience better. This is not an argument for the devs. It just shows a lack of development.

@ketaminepoptarts

Жыл бұрын

you can mod simcity 4

Another thing is that the building design in Cities Skylines is downright horrible!! You have a handful that look somewhat realistic, and then there are these really stupid looking buildings peppered in there that just don't look realistic at all. You can fix a lot of these issues with mods, but the whole simulation part is just so hollow and aside from trying to make a realistic looking 3d city, there's not really many goals to do. That's why the most popular videos of Cities Skylines are the ones where the city looks super realistic.

@jamgamingminecraft4799

2 жыл бұрын

thats because these horrible designs are actually vanilla european, its disgusting to look at when i want a modern city, but i just do it for the sandbox because i like city building.

Cities Skylines is beloved for the control you have over everything which is largely due to all the mods available. You can't even come close to making what you can in Cities Skylines in any other city building game.

"I think Cities Skylines 2 could be the best city building game of all time" Well. That aged well lol

But I love simcity4 than simcity5

This guy works for EA / Maxis for sure lol

You could use the RICO settings and change your population that occupies the buildings. You probably knew that, but if you haven't tried that, you should. I find the challenge is trying to get the people to use mass transit as the transit cant deal with so many people.. I am using 3 tiles right now and have 650 000 in my city. However cpu wants to melt.

Regarding your point about the zoning limit by the road.. sc4 automatic fills big zones with a road grid... Are you saying that if desirability gets high enough those roads will just be demolished and replaced with a mansion?

Damn, haven't seen a video recorded with FRAPS in forever. Haha I gave up using it long ago for Afterburner. Nostalgia.

Good points. I love it because of memories. But c:s dominates

Your points arent that good because youre judging cities skylines because of the amount of people who can live in one building? Yes it is not realistic, and it is hard to reach 1million population in cities skylines but it doesnt matter because cities skylines is well detailed, and you can do many things to your city that you cant do in simcity.

@King-2077

6 жыл бұрын

Gubastek for example, the cars and citizens dont just disappear. They actually work and go somewhere you can follow them. Traffic is kinda realistic, trucks doing deliveries and cars going anywhere they need to go. Simcity doesnt have that kind of detail. If you have mods on cities skylines you can do incredible designs on your city. You can make it look realistic by looking at the workshop for props, there are so much you can do especially of you are very creative. Look it up on youtube, the people who do amzing detailing on their cities, I also detail my city and it is one of the reason that I keep coming back to play cities skylines everytime I get an idea or become creative.

@Impetum7

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly. That is something what people don't even consider. Cities Skylines actually simulate every citizen, with his very own home, own work, car, own life starting with school and ending with senior years. There is chain of industry, where agriculture, forestry, mining and oil industry is making products, which are transported over to generic industry, there producting goods. Those are delivered for every comercial building in town. Equally every city service has its own simulation. So this game has an outstanding amout of depth in it. Therefore it has to be balanced, so it runs smoothly and it's still fun. I would rather have this depth in game than bigger number on population count. But if you are not that type of person, as said, there are lots of mods, you just need to use them.

@suity_nosh5910

6 жыл бұрын

The thing is if it was for balancing, they would've made sure that only 1 household lives in low-density houses. In the vanilla game, you can have 3-5 households living in a small single-family house, creating unnecessarily overpopulated suburbs. That doesn't sound very balanced to me. As for the game's depth, I think it can go farther. Sure there's 4 industry chains, but what good is that if they all go into a generic "good" (What commercial product would require agricultural, ore, wood, and oil materials to make?). If these goods were separated into different categories that would fulfill a citizen's need (agriculture=food to fulfill citizen's hunger, ore=electronics to fulfill citizen's entertainment, etc.) then that would be great. As for the services, they can be worked on, too. The crime simulation, for example, is way too simplified for it to be enjoyable. Instead of having different crimes affecting different aspects of the city (murder=death of a cim, robbery=loss of commercial building income, embezzlement=loss in city income, etc.), it's just a generic "crime" that lowers happiness in the surrounding area.

@thedeadcannotdie

6 жыл бұрын

Donald Jenkins tbh that would make the game too complicated for casual players and the system specs would be much higher

@suity_nosh5910

6 жыл бұрын

Manas Battacharya That's the point. We need a more complicated, challenging and realistic city simulator. Cities: Skylines just isn't it, even though it praises itself to be that.

0:45 ......... Rip plane.

you get 324km2 if i am not wrong, each tile is 2x2 km, timesed by 81, the area is i think if i am not wrong 324km2

Sitting at that size would only have around the population in a city with 13 million people would have to be gargantuan and 50 times larger than that

population I think CSL numbers*10 or *5 = real population SC4 can use hotkeys, such as zoning with pressing Ctrl/Shift to control the single zoning space for 1 building u can control that area with particular buildings like 7*5/4*4/8*5 building there, something like large land-size Hong Kong apartment assets in SC4. CSL you hard to do this and always affect zoning by placing new roads/pedestrian lanes or so on. but CSL fun is: building the infrastructure and traffic facilities are more fun than SC4, more flexibility to build interchanges but I would like to have: 1. rail transport can expand its station platform(rail tracks) and add station's entries 2. zoning Airport & seaport & customize design I think, no more Sim city after Sim City 4

I agree with most of the things that you said, cities skylines is a great game and I have poured hours of time into it but it does have its issues that are held mostly back by the games engine. I think the reasons for the population density issues are that every singe cim in your city has a house and a job and a shop they travel to, if that's through public transport or private vehicles, and that limits the game in the fact that It could barley be possible even now, to have cities with over 5 million + people, and keep track of their every move and where they live etc. However in Sim City, people chose a house for the day went to a job and then slept in an entirely different household after work, and even some sims would just drive or walk around the city with no real purpose or goal. A lot of issues that the base game in cities skylines also has, can be solved with the vast modding capabilities that the game provides, e.g the population density issue can be solved with a mod. As well as this ive seen people talk about how sim city had better gameplay then skylines, which in my opinion isn't true; yeah sim city has a lot of things you can do even with an expansion that almost doubles its content but a lot of that isnt really re-playable compared to the amount of replay ability that cities skylines offers, and that without talking about the 25 dlc's that you can purchase. Overall i dont think that sim city is a better city builder, but more of a simulator for a city as it is very limiting, especially towards the later parts of the game.

I love Cities Skylines as well, What I hate about Cities Skylines is that it’s actually unrealistic in many ways. For example most roads in real life normally have a “Turn Lanes” I believe without a mod this makes roads and traffic unrealistic. They make you depend on roundabouts which is stupid. The “population count” is way off, you got like 14 people living in one home. Not to mention the size proportions of the homes in Cities Skylines. For example sometimes a home built on 1 square can be bigger then a home built on 4 squares making the house next to it look like a bigger house but its not? Also the graphics are cartoony, not realistic at all. Theres a bug in the PS5 version that makes all the commercial businesses have the wrong names over there establishment, I’ll see gas stations named “The Library”. I also hate how power lines are big and ugly, you can’t build smaller land line power connections that look more realistic. I spent so much money on this game but to be honest I miss Sim City being the top city builder. I imagine a PS5 version of Sim City 4 or like if they made Sim City 6 look like Sim City 4 but with Cities Skylines engine. It would be amazing.

Sim City 4 master race

Im guessing its such low pop density because for the first time in a city sim history every single resident has an actual life and car and job and go to there home after work and etc.

Sad thing is the ceos of skylines are those sexy Swedish women with the big breasts and fancy clothes which is why skylines is aesthetic and not as practical as sc4. The lack of criminal visuals in skylines absolutely sucks. You could see the crimes taking place in sc4 murder robbing flashing bombing soliciting etc. In skylines you cant even see the cops taking the criminal away to the van its absolutely pathetic. Again the ceo women dont want top show possible violence and action.

These are your arguments why SC4 is better?? Those are some legit points but in Skylines you have sooo many more options to build and design a realistic city. There are much more pro than con points for Skylines especially if you use mods.

@svenbrede6151

5 жыл бұрын

It's design at cost of realism.

@Foxtrot2F

5 жыл бұрын

Yep, the core thing, is to DESIGN, and not even close to SIMULATE.

It isnt realistic because Unity has A LOT of limits, so the game can only handle a few thousand people after 1m pop,use the mod Show More Limits or something like that

So, are we gonna ignore that one plane crashed on that hill?

The like to dislike ratio though XD

15k ppl living in your average skyscraper building? That’s not realistic either bro…

You gotta show us your sim city, city!!!

@PredatorPeyami

3 жыл бұрын

autistic screech

a building maximum people in cities skyline like a skyscraper is 26/26

Ever heard of the realistic population mod?

What I don't like about Skylines is that my graphics can't handle it (5 FPS is just unplayable) and the DLC system, but that's it. that's the only reason I had it refunded and got SimCity 4 instead, the game itself is great. What I like about SimCity 4 is how the map is set out, it's a gigantic expanse of land and sea split up into sections that you can build cities on and then join them together, and the way you can build a city and then destroy it with a giant robot or tornado ETC.

"the sequel" *FIVE YEARS LATER*

all you had to say was "unity engine" EWW i love rust and kerbal space program but their largest downside is that engine only using 1 cpu core AND CRASHING ALL THE TIME

The limit isn't 250,000, I have a city with over 400,000 inhabitants and the only problem I have is that my ram is full and cars won't drive anymore, but no agent limit

@MiskT

6 жыл бұрын

+Xenon even 400,000 is a far too small number for "simulating" real cities

@1000bijen

6 жыл бұрын

TechDive Gaming I agree on that

I couldn't continue watching this past his first point. It is true that the population is lower and very odd in Skylines. But Skylines simulates each and every citizen. SimCity 4 does not do that, not even close. He is talking about how the larger buildings will generate traffic. But that is not true at all. Well, it is, but it is not proportional to the building's size as he is making it to be. when you examine the traffic routes in SimCity 4 you will find that, even for the buildings that require 1 thousand or 2 thousand population, even then there are only a handful of routes generated. And the rest of the traffic that is generated is just random traffic with no point to being there other than just to be traffic. I played SimCity 4 for years and years, I was even a regular and decorated poster on Simtropolis. I now play Skylines exclusively.

@Harvestersz

5 жыл бұрын

Do you know if mods like NAM make traffic less random or is this something that can not be fixed?

Another Point: you can Play SimCity 4 an every potatoe

You lost me at 10 million ppl in one city. LOLOL

I am going to download simcity 4 tomorrow because my Laptop Can't run Cities Skylines 😩

Some great points!!

Cities xl is also in 3D

I agree with you. I want realism not some stupid fancy 3D graphics. If anyone ever makes a game that really simulates a city dynamically it would be way more popular than a game with pretty graphics (ie skylines). Sim city 4 is much closer than skylines. I don’t like skylines mostly due to the 4 square limit as you mentioned.

i love simcity 4, but i play on windows 10 and crash the game sometimes :(

Where is there a building with 10,000 people? 😂 now that's unrealistic

simcity 4 is greater than simcity 2013

don't mods fix everything you have an issue with? I've seen mods that take away limitations

Low population because every people has own life. People's life is real and this is block for millions of millions human. Sory my bad english

You forget to mention how easy cities skylines actually is, and that makes it boring after some time, sc4 was a lot harder

@roddy116

6 жыл бұрын

rodrigo have you tried the hard mode mod?

u-drive it ?

@helldronez

6 жыл бұрын

its like the GTA on your own made city

@TheMrjoaoarthur

6 жыл бұрын

I wish we could import our cities to play them on GTA

People are not poor in city skylines because education is free and employers pay a living wage.

3:12 airplane casually flying through a hill :) btw in sc4 there is a limit to lot size too, not sure about all the residential footprints tho. overall I played a lot of both games but to me sc4 > skylines. Skylines is better for building unique ideas with how flexible the road placement is and the built in lot design tools, but the game is straight out ugly as hell. SC4 on the other hand has much more pleasant graphics to look at and overall much, much better city government mechanics including poverty and even riots.

one thing i dislike about the game and simcity 4, is the traffic AI. in cities skylines, traffic takes up one lane, and every time it ends with traffic getting clogged up so much, and the mods ive tried to use that have tried to fix such a problem, did so sparingly. in simcity 4 however, they just disappear after a few seconds of driving, and thats it. but one thing i liked in simcity 4 from cities skylines, is simcity 4 actually simulated car and train crashes, cities skylines does not try to do so. hell not even simcity 2013 simulated car and train crashes! so what the fuck happened to the actual simulation of crashes? to the people who have said hes just bitching about the density and other simulation factors the devs left out, he said he still loves the game, but only did this rant to get the devs to implement those into the game. the ultimate goal of a simulation is a simulation of real life, and cities in real life don't have 20 something people in a skyscraper. :/ and i agree, simcity 4 is still better, but the fact i like to watch my traffic at times, simcity 4's own traffic AI is a huge turn away, and yes some mods help with the automata in simcity 4 but just like in cities skylines, it doesn't work as well as it legit should.