In the defense of Cannondale, this bike is a) not primarily designed around mechanical shifting, b) if he's routed his mechanical cables through the steerer, he's routed the bike incorrectly, c) sponsorship deals mean the world tour team don't use the KNOT equipment - this isn't necessarily Cannondale's choice nor would they have much say. Just because the world tour team doesn't use it doesn't mean the customer can't ride them. D) the aero claims are plausible, especially in descents where power output required is exponential to the speed achieved so by reducing the aero drag, less power is required and at such high speeds, the difference in numbers is exponentially larger which is great for marketing purposes. The claims on claiming are also accurate as aero is the greatest factor slowing a rider down on gradients up to roughly 6% though for stronger riders, this is about 8%. They also compare an outright aero bike to an outright lightweight bike in the sprint. Again this data is plausible as a lightweight bike will generally not have the aero tube profiling, or the aero wheels and aero cockpit which "all things being equal" could well possibly produce that kind of data when they ran the simulation. E) aero is important within the peloton. Fact. And the bike wasn't designed for real riders. It was designed for pros to win races. The mechanical shift cables enter through the downtube through the removable plate (that would otherwise hold the Di2 port) so that they don't have sharp angles. The hydraulic cables enter through the steerer regardless of Di2 or mechanical. The turning angles of the handlebars don't matter on a road bike that is designed for performance and racing. The bike isn't designed for the weekend warrior. It's designed for their sponsored world tour team to win on.

@rodriguezahr

Жыл бұрын

Ditto

Nice to hear somebody telling the truth and just listing marketing rubbish. Excellent video as usual.

You say the cable routing from the handlebars that goes straight down the head tube through the 'tunnel of spacers' leads to poor shifting performance, except, those cables that go down there are hydraulic brake cables and have nothing to do with the shifting......the groupset shifter cables are the ones that go into the top of the downtube. You actually point this out in your other video.

I bought the knot64 wheels for my Caad12. Out of everything Cannondale say, those wheels make the big difference and turned my average 19mph rides into 20.5mph rides.

@user-ns4wc4kf6w

3 жыл бұрын

I'm tempted to do the same! I have a caad12, and have been looking for an upgrade. My magic aksium been very durable, but it's heavy and maybe not so fast

Okey, couple of Points.. When you critique cannondale for not giving the pro teams the wheels and handlebars/stems as well, this is just not accurate. Teams sign sponsor deals, specifically for which components companies can provide. As for EF Education first, they have had a sponsorship deal with vision for bars and wheels in place before cannondale made their own wheels, stems and handlebars. Same goes for Giant and Cadex It is not the case that the vision wheels are faster/better. Secondly, this is a high-end RACE bike. of course it is optimized for racing. Saying it is not faster for a non-racer is irrelevant. It is analogous to me not getting the most out of a formula one car. I am no racing driver, therefore a formula one car would not be fast for me. I agree with you about the Integrated the cable integration in the steerer tube and fork. But it looks awesome!

@waynosfotos

4 жыл бұрын

The Point SB is making is the reality does not meet the advertising. Not that it isn’t a top end road bike.

@ericshutter5305

4 жыл бұрын

Advertising lines are utter B.S. and straight up lies... but people like you ignore all that, because you want to live in a mind fantasy. Not in reality.

You’ve just crushed the excitement over my potential next bike

I will say from the getgo that the steerer tube and spacers were designed for an aero stem+handlebar setup. It was a sin to ship it without one.

Excellent review, couldn't ask for more from a 10min video 👍

If you crash an the bars reach their steering limit wouldn't the frame brake in the headtube area because of the cables beeing there ?

Great video, as usual. Keep up the good work.

Did you hear the Caadx 2013-2016 incident? Cannondale called back over 10 000 bikes produced between 2013 and 2016, caadx model, because of faulty design in fork and steerer resulting in snapping bikes unsuspectingly while riding. 1 death already confirmed because of this issue. It's such a shame...

@tomasdikinis3489

5 жыл бұрын

whoa, i ride my 2014 or 2015 caadx for the third year now and i even compete in MTB races with it. had no problems so far but this new info might make me consider changing my bike

I just bought one last June ! I don't care, I like the look of it !

'Marketing' is often selling fantasy to the consumers so that they believe and feel good about their purchase. You have just crushed the magic with ruthless 'truth' LOL

Nice to hear someone who tells the truth, and I agree with you on all points!

Real talk! Very insightful.

probably your best video so far

I owned 2 CAAD bikes and they were quite good. Despite cables rubbing against head tube. But now I'm riding Canyon carbon bike and I'm very happy with it.

Thank you for the great video! Exactly what I was thinking about systemsix. Do you know if we can remove the steering stop pin? The manual says, the steering pin is permanently anchored in the frame. Any chance we can workaround to remove that?

I've been saying this exact thing about Aero for the last handful of years. And you're the very first person I've ever heard say anything like this

When I first saw this bike released, and heard these claims I spat my coffee out. It is almost like saying the opposition has no clue how to make an Aero bike, but we get it right first time because we are Cannondale?? Now lets look at reality, first the UCI has made very specific rules after the 90s (bikes like the Lotus bike and Superbike were banned to limit the NACA shape which is the ultimate aero profile), so all current manufacturers are handicapped by rules to make the ultimate aero bike (why non UCI bikes TRI, look different). Second, look at real data and aero bikes give you only less than a minute over 40km, at 40km/ph. These are Manufacturers claims (Cervelo, considered to be the leader in TRI bikes aero performance), so this would be best case scenario, if true. Why do you think the S5 has not really changed much over so many years, because it can’t within the UCI rules, to aero perfomance! The biggest problem with road bikes is not the frame, it is the cockpit, which sets the riders position, dropped handlebars create a lot of turbulence, why because of the position it puts the body, forearms in. Why TT bikes have a completely different cockpit. For Road bikes the whole aero thing is a bit of a gimmick; if you want the gains, you need to go to a wind tunnel to maximise your position, the skinny frame, concealed cabling does very little. My advice is; Two points, if you want aero gains, buy a TT bike or TRI bars and bolt them on your current bike. Then go to the wind tunnel and find the most aero position you can find without loosing power. This will out preform the propaganda surrounding this bike.

Don’t agree with your take on the bad performance of the cable shifting. The “cables” that are routed through the stem are just the hydraulic ones for the disc brakes. The shifting cables are set in nice wide angles around the stem for just that reason you point out as a potential problem. Only the DI2 cables are routed through the stem, in case you bought a DI2 model...

I enjoyed your video. The System Six is marketed as a race bike for racers. The Pro Team using Vision Metron kit is largely due to sponsorship dollars.

Thanks for this video! It's nice to hear some common sense discussion of bicycle performance. Most people aren't going to be able to make use of the alleged advances in technology of the newest frame and won't be able to get their money's worth to justify the purchase. Bravo to you for your honesty.

Glad you called out the engineering on cable design. It's getting totally ridiculous and there does seem to be a compromise on quality and longevity of shifting and cable life thanks to some of this silliness.

Hello from Washington. Very good unbiased review. Always enjoy your vids and perspective. I am not a competitive cyclist. I enjoy leasure riding with a mix of road and gravel. Maybe some bikepacking in the near futrue. I am intrigued by Cannondales new topstone carbon with the kingpin suspension. Do you have any future plans of a review of this bike? I would really be interested in your take on it. Thanks again and keep up the stellar work.

Couldn't agree more. Can you also make a video about bike brands done the cockpit integration right without being over priced?

that's a very fair opinion from someone we all know used to say many positive comments about c-dale. and very well pointed out, cheap marketing and really awful engineering, I've seen such ugly designs also in scott "top" bike. this brings me back to something you said years ago about choosing bike that it must be one that you love to look at. props!

@chrisgilligan8662

4 жыл бұрын

In response: On even the lowest level trim (ultegra mechanical), you now get the Vision 55mm carbon wheels. That paint job isn't doing the bike any favours....the new color schemes are much nicer. This is not an ugly bike - even in the ultegra spec. Sure it looks sleeker in the top spec with a more integrated cockpit....but it's a pretty sweet ride either way. Look aero gains are obviously going to be less for the average rider, but the research shows that there are advantages all the way down to 15kph. It isn't a super light bike - but again you're not spending $12K on it either. Unless you get a top spec "standard race bike" you aren't going to be way lighter than this one. Hoping to get mine tomorrow - will try to find this vid to post some thoughts on the bike in person - as well as what I think of the ride. Of note - in your comment you mention "something you said years ago". I have some concerns taking much advice about cycling from an "expert" who is a cycling KZreadr and has been for years....and for a young man who by all appearances is healthy, athletic, and capable, is still averaging 28kph for his rides.

I work in a Cannondale dealership and honestly that's the worst design they ever came up with... That excuse of an "integrated" stem with that plastic cover on the front is a joke. Also if you turn the handlebars more that like 20 degrees you will scratch the paint

for that price I better not see any cables

Thank you for showing us the SystemSix . Canondales solution with the internal routing of the cables seems ridiculous and not thought through . I had a Carbon Mtb hardtail from Cube (2012 model ,Shimano Xt ) that had internal routed cables and their solution was much nicer and i never had any problem with shifting ,i also and still have a roadbike from Cube (2012 model , Shimano Ultegra ) that have internal routed cables and the shifting is simply crisp and have never giving me any problems and the cable routing also looks so much nicer than on this model from Canondale .

good review

what's your opinion in the caad 13??

End of 2019, we have now systemsix ultegra on fulcrum 400 wheels for 3000 , which is quite a margin

Sick -- Good, honest review. Thank you!

Great review... Don't worry soon they will integrate a 250W electrical motor and then you can really kind of ride like a pro (at least once you temper with it to make it illegal in Europe so it also give you the extra 250W when you ride above 25km/h)....

I have a system six. My recovery ftp is 200w. This bike is legitimately fast. Doing club TT's on it, I'm very close to the times I've done on a TT bike. The pro team runs Vision wheels as they are a sponsor, also the KNOT 64 wheels are not UCI approved. Don't really need UCI approval if you have a wheels sponsor and don't sell the wheels aftermarket.

Just a small note: the housing that goes into the head tube "tunnel" is brake-only. The shifting cables (as you've shown in you video on tricky cable routing) goes from left shifter on the rignt side of the head tube into the port on the down tube and vice versa for right shifter. So shifter cables are not affected at all, though it's clear that this isn't the prettiest solution. Higher spec models (i.e. HM-frames with di2) have Cannondale's proprietory bar-stem combo with full internal routing. And yes, they market their high-end stuff and the low-spec models do not have full range of the features marketed :(

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

Ekhem... Would you remind me whats the price for hi mod system6?

Past days there were rule that demand drives supply. Now companies telling customers what they want. Works so well as majority have no brains.

How are you still ridding a road bike with that kit

Agree with your assessment. Wonder if pro team mechanics circumvent all the hidden cable BS.....and proprietary headset spacers and integrated stem/bars that many top end bikes come with.

The cheapest SysytemSx is $7900, two models up. Will someone sue Candonale for the false advertisement for the two lowest base models? :)

Fantastic presentation, yet again! This one is sooo funny! Love your vids, thanks for taking the time.

They also claim you save 30W vs supersix at 40km/h. But what they don`t say most of it are aero wheels, handlebar and stem. So what you pracically get from system six frame comes from headtube and fork what is maybe 5-8W. But keep it 30W because it sounds great and worth 7k$ ;-).

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

But they also dont say that yoga lessons give you more aero advantage as you will be able to lower your body even more.

i gues they main aim with this design was no cables (di2 or red etap etc) as the cables goes to the place where the di2 module is used to be. I own super six evo from 2017 and im very happy with it. the new S6E reminds me a bit of System Six and it will or just might share some of the issues pin pointed by ShaiBiker. good video. Pozdrowki z Irlandii

Nice break down..

I still prefer CAAD. The broke man's racing bike.

What I'm suprised about is they do not do real world crash tests like auto makers. Imagine if a bike company did that and used videos and proof in their marketing campaigns how much more sales it would do. And pressure other bike makers to do the same..... I've fallen twice (hahaha) cleats locked in. And crashed twice on sandy condition on road surfaces. Both times nothing but scratches on the pedals and the seat. One major crash when I took my a hand off the bar to check my garmin and at that moment I hit a branch on the road flipped over the handle bars still clipped in and cracked my helmet. So shocked my bike wasn't damaged. It was a 2017 Specialized Elite Venge Peter Sagan .....

A blind test would be a way to really value all the fantastic data they market (other brands do that too). One good aluminum frame x super carbon frame ridden by the same pro in every condition. This would reveal all the B.S. in these claims. Nice job anyway. Regards

I was wondering how he was gonna ride it without pedals at first

@theveryaveragenoobgamer4819

4 жыл бұрын

😂😂😂😂😂

@MV-bj1yk

3 жыл бұрын

Weight savings

He is still sick? Get better soon.

bro how about caad 13?

What model helmet do you have?

those spacers under the stem drag cost approx. 50 watts or so. it's a feature called "Giraffe Tech".

Only one problem is for sure: the ugly holes/pockets when the handlebar turns which may have been avoided by more careful designing. Otherthan that, the cables inside the headtube may or may not be a mechanical problem, i.e. the rubbing against the surroundings. It needs to be examined carefully by actually looking into the hole while turning handlebar to different degrees. It would be surprising if Cannondale ignore this very critical, fundamental issue that can become a huge joke for the brand (*). The best way to get a unbiased understanding of the bike is to have several knowledgeable people, an engineer from Cann. preferred, debate on this. It is OK to express ones' opinions freely but solo talks often produce biased information which is counter productive in term of knowing this or any other bike. * updated: see at 4:05 here, kzread.info/dash/bejne/oqSb1sqzmZzFYLw.html.

If only Roglic wore his Lazer aero helmet the way you do here ...

If you want the aero wheels and aero bars you have to buy one of the more expensive bikes, not the entry model.

@chrisgilligan8662

4 жыл бұрын

Not anymore. The Ultegra mechanical comes with aerodynamic bars (not as good as the top level bikes - but better than standard round bars) and also the Vision SC55 Carbon wheels.

Hello Danny....Greetings here from the Philippines...im an avid fan of your channel....very informative for a newbie like me.... thanks and more power....

Can you make a review about new cannondale evo 2020

Hey. What do u think about Topstone 2020 Carbon?

@cannondany

5 жыл бұрын

It seems cool. I'm hoping, that the rear "suspension" doesn't bob, as the elastomer thing on BMC bikes.

The cables could've gone through the top cap on the stem and the over hang on the top of the forks could of been like a mini mudguard just in looks

wait, is your ftp over 300W now?

I agree with you that it does look ugly. And the cable routing is terrible.

Agree

You have some fair points (designed around the wheels etc... cannondale should not bother with entry model without electrical derailleurs, deep wheels and integrated bars). But aero is more important than you think. 1st it's not about the speed, sure high speed gives bigger number but time gains are as great as slower speed. Also if you plan on staying in the wheels you won't fare that well in the race, at some point you'll have to breakaway. It can be a long breakaway or a sprint but in both case aero is a must. Also don't forget that within the 6.8 rule you can build an aero and 6.8 light bike.

Didn't see this video before I bought one. After using it for a while I also came to the same conclusion the base model is only a SystemFour. For the next model up it's a SystemFive. Still, after owning it for a month, I think it's a great bike.

@cannondany

5 жыл бұрын

No question about the quality of the Ballistec Carbon - it's usually great.

@frankrodriguez6424

5 жыл бұрын

I also bought this model, great bike... They can critique the bike all day long. I think its a great bike

@eqz2013

5 жыл бұрын

@@frankrodriguez6424 When I was riding the bike in Central Park today, a kid came over to ask me about it. He said he really liked the bike. I asked him if he rides bikes, he said he just rode over 200 miles from Albany, NY to NYC. I asked him how old he's is. He said 15. I was more impressed by him though.

the spec of the wheel requirement should hve been taken into consideration.

6:39 every single ride

Oh dear Marketing...😂... It is like the Canyon Strive (MTB)... Awsome, beautiful bike but they claim that with a "click of a switch" you change from XC to Down Hill... 😝😝😝... I wonder if with some more clicks you can change it to a Gravel Bike mode or a Road Bike 🚲✨? 😂... I get the idea, but sometimes the Marketing in this industry can be very pretentious...😎

No you can change the handle bar to the upgrade for a few dollars more ($400). Well worth it.

@Godspeed961

4 жыл бұрын

a link for the upgrade ?

@francozahir5655

4 жыл бұрын

Is it 400$ few dollars more? And for a serial handle bar?jeeee

can’t wait for the new super6 review.

Seriously - wearing baggies, reviews a bike with no pedals, doesn’t know kmph vs mph, doesn’t understand aerodynamics, yet bagging on systemsix because he can’t put out out watts, doesn’t like modern spacers/cockpits, etc. I would agree a one piece integrated cockpit should be on every one of these… the rest is cookie cutter nonsense.

@crimson177

Жыл бұрын

read the title, its not a review

Totally agreed!!!!!

cant trust a dude in shorts wearing a tt helmet doing a review of a racing bike

@chrisgilligan8662

4 жыл бұрын

Especially that same guy who admits his previous ride he averaged 28kph.

Man they are sponsored by vision what else they should use?

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

Means that all statements of Cannondale are invalid if you use different wheels? Even more aero? Hilarious man.

Sick biker you might have good content but you need to market it better in my opinion.

You will benefit from very low speeds also with aero bike. Cable shifting,lets be honest are slowly going away. Also,the best thing you can do is to buy just frameset. Teams use fsa parts because of sponzorship

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

"You will benefit from very low speeds also with aero bike." - Lets we go other way round... You will benefit more from lowering your position on the existing bike and its absolutely free. "Cable shifting,lets be honest are slowly going away." - You have no idea dude. Campy and Sram are faster than Di2 let alone Etap "Also,the best thing you can do is to buy just frameset." - the best thing you can do is spend the money on some coaching and trainig with professionals or buy a nice trip to cycle in lets say Mayorca. "Teams use fsa parts because of sponzorship" - Thats whats makes all the Cannondale brochure statements obsolete. How many Knot wheels users you know?

The pro peloton rides what they are told to ride by their sponsors. The fact that they ride vision wheels probably has to do with them being sponsored by the team wanting to use tubulars and the knot wheels only being clincher. This is just a guess though. Personally I think this thing and the recent flight of aero bikes are super overpriced just for hiding some cables. I bough an Orbea Orca Aero and I feel it’s faster and livelier than the systemsix.

What we really need is the good leg

You are absolutely right, here ;-)

Really like that helmet, does the glass have degree on it?

The pro team doesn't ride the Knot wheels and bars because Vision pays them to ride their stuff. It is that simple. If Cannondale pays them more to ride only their stuff, then they would. Aero does matter more than you think even in the peloton. There has been analysis on it.

Review - Chapter2 Bikes from New Zealand !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought it looked ugly with all the knot Aero bars and wheels but this bike is even worse

But how does it ride 🤔🤣

finally honest review!

@Phaidrus

4 жыл бұрын

What review? He's not riding the bike...

Unfortunately the company gets more and more rotten from the inside. From an engineering company it become a marketing company while the engenering section is suffering.

@ericshutter5305

4 жыл бұрын

Precisely that... brand is going downhill fast /pun intended.

If all aero bikes would be like this then aero bikes would be dead within a minute...

The previous systemsix was a legend

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah... It was considered best frame ever. Cannondale starts go for the money no matte rwhat sadly.

@ericshutter5305

4 жыл бұрын

When PR and sales people rule a brand, the tech gets bad very quickly...

Super expensive too!

The spacer/stem combo looks so terrible!! This was one of your best videos so far!

Those advertisement words on web about how much watts it saves ... just bla bla bla marketing bulshit. Integrated cables and ... I see cables outside so what is the point? :D

@eqz2013

4 жыл бұрын

Peter Strenk the one you are looking at with outside cables are “handicapped “ SystemSix: the two lowest models aka syatemFour and systemFive. You’ll have to pay a minimum of $7900 to get a real SystemSix as advertised.

@strenkp

4 жыл бұрын

@@eqz2013 jesus christ superstar. $7900 you say? cannondale are crazy and funny :D everything above 2000eur for a roadbike (ok with di2 and disc brakes ~3500e) is overpriced road bike if you ask me.

Wow good review. Any old school design is better than that

Ah, and it's very feasible to get 300w climbing and 200w zone 1. If you train a little bit more you can get there.

What was it like to ride after all is said and done?

@felixxilef7682

4 жыл бұрын

hard to ride without pedals... crap review

thats only system 2.. u missed stem, bar and knot64 and tires.

1:09 48kmph or 60mph 😂

Agree about much of the criticism. However, you say that you ride 28 kmh alone and right after you say that you ride / draft in a group, so it is only for solo rides! Indeed, any aero bike will be much less effective in a group ride, and much less effective at 28 kmh. However, there is a small gain of maybe a few watts, and if you are racing others, it might be the difference beeween winning and losing the final sprint. If you are buying this bike for riding alone, you are obviously wasting your money, but for small gains I don't see why this bike is less value than any other aero bike on the market (but really not the most neat solution with the fork and the cables).

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

You right only to some degree. Proper time for attack will be more beneficial let alone better preparation or tactic than any blurb spitted by big brands. Never heard that somebody lost his race because he ridden visions not zipps or ridden not aero bike. All this is like with cars usage producers statements. In labs and with many parts u wont use in the real life. Go figure

Also, did you even ride it? No pedals? Baggy clothes are not going to help you on an aero bike.

All these companies do now is generate marketing garbage. The effects of aero on bike performance is vastly overstated. But, this works for US bike sales because people trust marketing and STEM education levels have never been lower in the US.

@JanKowalski-pe9lo

4 жыл бұрын

Well... In Europe is the same. Brainwashed empty headed full wallet or taking bank loan idiots.

So dramatic at the start I was feeling a little anxious 😨 Great analysis .