5. From Panic to Suffering
MIT 6.868J The Society of Mind, Fall 2011
View the complete course: ocw.mit.edu/6-868JF11
Instructor: Marvin Minsky
In this lecture, students discuss Chapter 4 of The Emotion Machine, covering topics such as the relationship between pain, hurt, and perception, and how the mind exploits emotions.
License: Creative Commons BY-NC-SA
More information at ocw.mit.edu/terms
More courses at ocw.mit.edu
Пікірлер: 211
Watching Minsky struggle with basic powerpoint stuff is pretty reassuring.
I feel better about myself hearing some of these students talk and knowing they're at MIT
@sup.blud.
10 ай бұрын
They are freshman... so fresh out of high school. If you were born in 1975
Marvin is a genius and the 🐐 of lip smacking asmr ❤️
@billyworkman4204
Жыл бұрын
I really have to agree, I sleep really good.
@wyattluster
Жыл бұрын
You should try listening to Paul Samuelson
@billyworkman4204
Жыл бұрын
@@wyattluster I do listen to Paul before Marvin lol, put any sleep ade out of business.
@DipayanPyne94
Жыл бұрын
What's going on here ? Who are all you people ? Lip Smacking Obsession ? Really ? 🤣🤣🤣
@Bingbangboompowwham
10 ай бұрын
@@DipayanPyne94it’s ASMR, babe. Keep up
0:30 ~ Consciousness 25:55 ~ Qualia 58:20 ~ Causal Diversity 1:31:55 ~ Sci-Fi
@jacobshwartz-lucas2750
2 жыл бұрын
Can anybody tell me where in the lecture suffering is discussed? Why is panic and suffering in the title? Thanks for saving me 2 hours.
I feel so grateful of having the opportunity to see this whole lecture
@commoveo1
2 жыл бұрын
I Agree
@johnqpublic2718
Жыл бұрын
I doubt it
@tratbagd4500
Жыл бұрын
@@johnqpublic2718 ?
@Soulprismatics
11 ай бұрын
@@johnqpublic2718 you think the techbrains will get the problem here, like, ever?
@RantKid
8 ай бұрын
Lying liar
tell us about the island
So bright, so kind, such a great listener such a great teacher.
@andersongoncalves3387
2 жыл бұрын
This guy was friends with Epstein and was also accused
I want to give this guy some water
@thedownzguy
8 ай бұрын
He really needs it.
@jonlipman1633
5 ай бұрын
A cup of water yah
@inbleakmidwinter
4 ай бұрын
Y yo a ti un cerebro
@jaybanksuniversalmusic6785
3 ай бұрын
You corney.
soy de argentina llegue aca y me sirvio muchisimo. Gracias por su trabajo honorable viejardo. le deseo todo lo bueno a toda su organizacion.
@Natsukashigame
Жыл бұрын
Aguante Argentina papu 🇦🇷
Get this man a glass of freaking water omg
Damn, MIT used the projected title for my autobiography on this video clip.
@actualideas8078
3 жыл бұрын
You know that MIT accepted millions of dollars from Epstein right?
@spridle
3 жыл бұрын
Nobody, and I mean nobody, will ever read your book about your life...
@yohei72
3 жыл бұрын
What cheery, humorous people I do attract in my replies.
@johnnyappleseed1023
3 жыл бұрын
@@yohei72 unfortunately that’s the KZread comment section
The first topics discussed IS THERE A CENTRAL PROBLEM OF CONSCIOUSNESS? Minsky disagrees with Pinker... 21:00 What is going on in Joan's mind? 21:50 Minsky asserts that there is no hard problem of consciousness. 24:00 There are lots of hard problems. 26:00 the central problem is qualia 30:18 Why do the philosophers pick on colour? 32:00 Diagrams of inside Joan's mind 33:00 two mental activities 34:46 "the processes that we lump into consciousness involve lots of different activities" 39:00 IS THERE something "simple, indescribable and absolute" about certain qualities? 48:50 They want to... say that they can't imagine how anything that has an explanation... could feel pain or sorrow or anxiety... And I think this is a curious idea that is stuck in our culture, which is that: If something is hard to express, then it must be because it is so different from everything else that there's no way tl describe it. 51:46 What is pain? Pain is a reaction of some very smart parts of your mind, to the malfunctioning of other parts of your mind. 53:30 Why "The Emotion Machine" only mentions qualia once. 54:40 Causal Diversity idea. If there's a phenomenon going on (e.g. being in pain), how do you explain it?
i know a dog they took with a car and abandoned on the other side of an 8 lanes highway and he returnrd Also seen on the net a cat found his family when they moved homes and couldnt find him before leaving ,Of course it makes sense that participating is the way they/we learn but they must have other ways too
botany is plants not mushrooms (which is mycology) 1:36:34
That "for example" guy is back at it 🙄
1:45 lip smoking makes me sleep
Can anybody tell me where in the lecture suffering is discussed? Why is panic and suffering in the title?
@WTnews_
3 ай бұрын
16:42
I see he upgraded the projector slides lol
It seems as though real consciousness would be a byproduct of child bearing enhanced in the hyper social animal. A learned trait of empathy in debt to offspring/bloodline/antibully/survival.
@cameltube-vk7el
2 жыл бұрын
well, not feeling the EMPATHY line. Another REPRESENTATION might be "your born with the capability" call it consciousness and YES and you mean growing up & the "HSA" tribe group INTERACT in service & from a core do no harm position YeS, experience = full E M P A T H Y I describe a woman having a baby, I will only be able to sympathize as a man EVER BUT if I was a woman that had experienced the birthing event I would be able to totally E M P A T H I Z E So YeS empathy goes too "HSA" group, tribe, function social proper HUMAN thing your last line goes into empathy maybe when you change the view and ask HOW many times have we Re-C Y C L E D and the DNA but exactly, who knows /;^) Always Forward
Not bad for 87.
Love this guy :)
shout out for the person choosing the thumbnails
Does MIT charge tuitions for this?
I can’t believe how dry-mouthed these MIT professors are, it’s becoming somewhat of a common theme in these free KZread courses.
Am I the only one listening to this and literally not understanding what the hell he's talking about?
1:27:54 - 1:28:46
@pogger4649
4 жыл бұрын
Chris C hes in the alcor basement... just chillin. 😂😂😂
interesting to listen to him. as a side note, though, i suppose if i never took philosophy courses i would likely also walk away from his lecture and have acquired an impression that the philosophy department probably deserves to be on the chopping block during the next round of budget cuts. I would actually go study philosophy from philosophers, though, before drawing my own opinion about it.
@libaf5471
2 жыл бұрын
It's easy to draw false impressions about a thing from someone elses interpretation of the thing. Most ideas are garbage. From that to me naturally follows that most ideas in even valid fields are garbage. That doesn't make the entire field garbage. I hate with a passion those philosophers who think they can just think about something and arrive at the truth. Someone, I can't remember who, has described philosophy as "thinking about thinking" and as this age of unreality has dawned, I can't think of anything more important than that.
@waitwhat6882
2 жыл бұрын
@@libaf5471 and this is all your opinion, not fact
@libaf5471
2 жыл бұрын
@@waitwhat6882 How would you prove "philosophy is garbage" as a fact, without the same thing being applicable to almost anything? Anyone can have a bad idea. Computer science has produced a metric shit ton of bad ideas. It doesn't mean computer science is garbage.
Im just here for the ASMR 😴😴
@natesmith9213
2 ай бұрын
me too, I have no idea what anyone is learning here.
@kevinmichniewicz1684
23 күн бұрын
@@natesmith9213😂😂
RIP
Food for thought 🤔
this man is a treasure.
@edimalo7061
4 жыл бұрын
Kathryn Harrold omg yes😂
@jameskiser4259
2 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately he was a terrible man. He spent a lot of time with Epstein.
free will is when you are unaware of what made you do that
@maspoetry1
3 жыл бұрын
no
@chocolanny
2 жыл бұрын
No it’s just not being self aware
The idea of free will has that important to law but to ignorant people. You can punish ppl committing crime, and the reason is to protect yourself. The real question isn't "Was this meditated?" but how likely this is to repeat. And after all, if all has a cause and we don't have a choice, then even without the idea of free will, that crime was un-avoidable. Anyone has a different idea?
@MarianneExJohnson
2 жыл бұрын
Punishment and lack of free will are perfectly consistent with each other. Consider: if you're arguing that a person is nothing but a product of their environment, well, the criminal justice system can become a part of that environment. In other words, if it's all about conditioning, just think of punishment as conditioning as well.
In the process of growing, the main concern is how to overcome egoism and dig up the roots of evil.
About half a billion... and I'm right!! Bazinga!
what are K-lines?
@oe542
4 жыл бұрын
bryant ho it’s one of those things where everyone’s too afraid to ask for fear of being the only person who doesn’t understand a damn thing this man is talking about.
@markwebster5749
3 жыл бұрын
Lines of ket 😂
@sam5992
2 жыл бұрын
Knowledge lines. It's written about in his publications.
It would have been interesting to see Minsky's reaction to what AI in 2024 is capable of. Maybe a video with ASMR mouth sounds more soporific than Minsky's. Anyway RIP and I thank him for my best sleeps.
Yes, Euclid knew of ellipses.
He defines a toothache as the symptom of pain. Thank god his dentist had actual clinical insight.
@LanceSummer
Жыл бұрын
The guy did work on nerves
😊😊
12:02 was that a fart??
@intuit13
2 жыл бұрын
uh, no.
So why don't animals "utilize" free will? My dog does the same shit every day. When will he begin to learn English?
So theoretical....What's the midterm going to be on? Describe the brain in terms of K Lines?
@tratbagd4500
Жыл бұрын
Probably no midterm. This course was done in a discussion and/or seminar format (open format). It's not a class/course in the traditional sense.
"They help to keep you alive, but they won't help you write your thesis". I disagree... I do find this man to be brilliant but he is most definitely mistaken with regards to how anxiety and cortisol work. Without the proper emotions, you wouldn't feel the pressure of the upcoming deadline. If you didn't have enough cortisol you'd probably fall asleep.
1:50:26 Noam Chomsky has been real quiet since this dropped
@KilgoreTroutAsf
2 жыл бұрын
Complex phrases are harder to parse, but it does not mean they are ungrammatical. Im pretty sure this gets easier in languages with a case system that helps with the parsing.
@KilgoreTroutAsf
2 жыл бұрын
Plus recursion needs not happen within the same sentence. I saw a man. He had a cat. The cat played with a ball. The ball bounced down the stairs. etc.
Really unfortunate this guy passed before seeing LLMs come to fruition.
Horrible Audio during the end
I wish KZread had a 4X speed option
@Whoisshe2183
Ай бұрын
Same 😅
N emotions are n bits but that is the number of emotions not the information provided by n emotions...
3:55 is me 😂😂😂
god, what kind of food ate this guy,
@arenawarfare2584
Жыл бұрын
lol What?
this 1:28:39
MAY A MACHINE IMIC CONCIOUSNESS ???
Probs of artif intell and logic paradoxes. Wonderful irony having computer prob. 'From panic to suffering' to me sounds bit like Buddhism. Don't panic and carry a towel aka keep a sense of humor, arrow of time shorter so yup, delivery of wisdom requires more patient suffering than willing to invest unless can close caption and turn off sound!
My belief is the animals act more sane than humans.
@atreyeechattopadhyay3494
Жыл бұрын
We think too much no lol
Vicks Formula 44 used to have codeine in it.......
He doesn't present an actual argument against the hard problem of consciousness. He just reduces it to a program and offers the most tedious list of tautologies I've ever seen on a projector in my life.
@atreyeechattopadhyay3494
Жыл бұрын
Isn't that exactly the problem that he as recognized and is urging his students to work at/on them? Dude you sound like a fanatic
27:40 heavennnnn
I think he is wrong. Blue and green versus vanilla and chocolate. He doesn't get it. But who am I?
What computers don't have is cognitive thinking 🤔.... it c a n not comput a real human mind....
still can't grow hair on our head or cure depression.
@atreyeechattopadhyay3494
Жыл бұрын
Stop demanding start researching then
3:52 he spontaneously morphs into Donald trump
Artificial
MIT students cant explain RAM and drive types
how the hell did I get here
@doglover-sv4zi
3 ай бұрын
Somehow you were created like a monkey
Re: Red and green and stabbed: what if you are color blind? I've never seen a point missed by so much
He's an atheist Which always confused me. The fact your admitting you don't believe in a god is saying it exists ... Just you don't believe in it. Why wouldn't he go with agnostic???
@johnnyappleseed1023
2 жыл бұрын
L
@pmcate2
9 ай бұрын
Wtf what a stupid thing to say
"slurp slurp slurp slurp the brain slurpslurp slurp is comparable to slurp slurp slurp the larger brain slurp slurp slurp if youre not a fish slurp slurpslurp bad combination slurp slurp slurp"
@Freon12661
2 жыл бұрын
Ahaha
@simonmasters3295
2 жыл бұрын
You so rude dude
@laalbujhakkar
Жыл бұрын
only ppl with misophonia can appreciate this comment! I hear you brother!
@Wanderlust246
Жыл бұрын
Dude, when you’re his age you’ll be talking like that too sorry to say! Then someone will be making fun of YOU 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@artelc
Жыл бұрын
You are hilarious. I love Marvin
This is so hard to follow. He doesn’t finish his sentences. He seems to simultaneously really know his subject matter, and then also “forget” the salient details of the tangents he takes.
@Mommyandtux
3 жыл бұрын
He's well advanced in age here. He passed several years ago. Was a great man.
@lekoman
3 жыл бұрын
@@Mommyandtux I mean... except all the purported kiddy diddling, I guess. Look it up - he was buddies with Epstein.
@johnnyappleseed1023
3 жыл бұрын
@@lekoman which means nothing by itself
@paulr2353
2 жыл бұрын
I thought I was alone. All the comments talk about his brilliance…But I’ve watched several of his lectures and he just rambles, making little sense. Perhaps he was senile at this point, I don’t know. Seems like a nice guy though
@kylekrantz3025
2 жыл бұрын
@@lekoman the report says Epstein tried to convince Virginia to make a move on Minsky, but never found the opportunity to even make an attempt. There is no evidence that he diddles kiddies. There is only evidence from Virginia, stating that Epstein wished he did but failed. For a philosopher that actively diddles check out Searle, whose argument is computers can’t think and we certainly can never prove they do, which seemed to be his argument to his victims as well.
He has certainly made his mind up. Philosophy asks questions. He did not.
@atreyeechattopadhyay3494
Жыл бұрын
If that was the case he wouldn't be in MIT. He is not just asking questions he is also trying to find the solutions.
I hate how all these questions are so interesting and all the people thinking about them take themselves so seriously while talking about things in the air, sounding like such snobs. I hope that this wandering leads to a more rigorous understanding. It makes me uncomfortable.
@edimalo7061
4 жыл бұрын
Keerthana Gurushankar Lol I was thinking the same thing💀😂😂😂
This guy needs to clear his hockers before he lectures.
Human beings trying to be god will fail every time
Misophonia Alert
Any other teachers on this ?? This guy is not the person to be teaching at all
He don't get what's the real, and huge, philosophical problem in the AI. Yet the old fool laughs about his own arrogance and stupidity. Philosophy isn't his field, yet he, -llike almost all the people-, thinks everybody who is able to think is a born philosopher. If you tell them they aren't they get ballistic.
17:20 LIP SMAKING IS MAKING ME YARN! 11:51 LIP SMAKING
This guy is terrible. How did he get this position lecturing at MIT? He's shallow and speaks gibberish.
@danny.golcman6846
4 ай бұрын
Cuz hes one of the earliest pioneers of AI
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1. Evolution is such a fallacy with no observable examples. What a hopeless theory.
Yeah I can't watch this guy anymore since he was a visitor of the Epstein island and named in the depositions.
@jgnzm
26 күн бұрын
Weird that no one asked yet here you are, like anyone cares
This is empty
This is what passes for philosophy these days? No wonder society is so frail and shallow.
@prim0x0
4 жыл бұрын
Mr Happy well atleast the world is at its most peaceful state in recorded history
@charlesh5791
4 жыл бұрын
this guy is a legendary scientist, not a philosopher, and this is clearly not a philosophy course, nor is it sold as such...
@yohei72
4 жыл бұрын
Do you notice a tendency at parties for people to leave the room when you enter?
@BackInTheGarden
3 жыл бұрын
Bible quote, Jesus said, "Money" is the root of all Evil"...and I believe $$$ buy politicians & tell you want to hear... and then don' do it. Except for the present ONE.
@RantKid
3 жыл бұрын
Care to give an example or are you just gonna bitch aimlessly
Lol what a delusional old man. He's definitely not as smart as people are pretending. He's not saying anything of value. This is more like a charity to make an old man feel important still.
@pokeyalx7539
2 жыл бұрын
Big man behind your keyboard
@sandvillage4162
2 жыл бұрын
He was one of the best scientists of all time you whining child lol he's speeches and classes are kind of a waste of time true, but he never was a speaker or teacher to start with. But he is a legendary scientist and inventor. You can thank him for half the tech we have today!
@57Carlibra
2 жыл бұрын
Yikes, this lecture was terrible.
@Freon12661
2 жыл бұрын
True!
@Freon12661
2 жыл бұрын
@@sandvillage4162 and his work was?
No. You mean 6 thousand years ago. We haven't been around for no millions of years. Y'all lie soooo damn much smh
So intelligent... but believes in evolution ?? Strange how he can be so clever and a complete fool at the same time.
@GerNiels
2 жыл бұрын
What do you believe in?
@rossross3689
9 ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂 oh the irony
@darrenowen76
3 ай бұрын
oh dear.....
This is the issue with even high level professors on this topic, very long (bordering on rambling) lectures with no real determination of fact.
@tratbagd4500
Жыл бұрын
Well, this was kind of an informal treatise of the philosophy of mind relying on his popular book (the emotion machine). This was also done when he was 83, only a couple of years before he passed away. This was not a traditional class and he surely wasn't like what when he was younger but was very articulate and much to the point.