Thank you for this, Starsky. We really can't thank you enough for working with us to get the word out on the new VS waves --- and the 3rd Wave. Huge respect!

Imagine if, one day, the 3rd Wave will get a proper sample playback engine. No granular stuff, just an old school Emulator sampler thing. It's already a monster as it is but the idea to have a super VA, Modern Wavetable, PPG, Prophet VS and Emulator all in one box with its incredible character and sound authority that would make it the Godzilla of modern synths.

@michael999michael999

6 ай бұрын

That would be epic indeed!

@mothsinpajamas

2 ай бұрын

boy do i have news for you

@enricopallazzoofficial

2 ай бұрын

@@mothsinpajamas Yeah, they announced at Superbooth the addition of the sampling engine. Great Great news

A good video on the subject of special sound character of the PPGs, VS, Waldorf MWs and 3rd Waves. But the PPG did not have 240 kHz sample rate. The Waldorf M is on 240 kHz in Classic Mode and the Waldorf MicroWave is at about 250 kHz. The PPG got a slightly different technique. The digital data of each oscillator of a voice is sent to the DAC one after another in an interleaved way. So there is one sample word of OSC 1 and then one of the OSC 2. And every oscillators got a sample rate of about 183.8 kHz (= 25 MHz quartz ÷8 ÷17 ticks of PAL cycle). So the DAC gets data twice that often (one value for OSC 1 and then a tiny bit later one value for OSC 2) at about 367.6 kHz. So the oscillators of the PPG (and not on all Waldorf hardware synths) are not mixed or added, but kind of interlaced (multiplexed) at the DAC. You can see this on the DAC output with a scope. And due to the nature of our ear and the very, very high sample rate, we hear the two oscillators like being mixed and not interlaced. See here for more details on this: till-kopper.de/ppg-wave_demystfied.html The Waldorf M and the MicroWave actually add the two oscillators digitally and play them at a sample rate of 240/250 kHz. And at full level, they cause digital overflow (so called "ASIC Bug"), as the digital data is simply added (max +max = more than max and one bit too much!). The level changes were made not like today by multiplying the sample word data, but by bit shifting. Greeting from a PPG freak and 3rd Wave owner.

thirdwave would have been my dream synth with a vector mixer. still probably the best synth of an era

This is such a great breakdown and giving the math behind sample data and aliasing is so informative. Thank you. 👏

Great stuff! I was able to directly import the VS waves into Waveedit for Modwave and then port into my Modwave as a different flavour to the existing VS wavetables. Had lots of fun creating a VS Strings for the Modwave.

Getting close to the Prophet VS is so cool. I can now have a reunion with a synth with a very close sound to my beloved Prophet VS of decades ago. I'll never forget the smooth strings sound.

@StarskyCarr

6 ай бұрын

Yeah quite cool. And you can recreate a lot of the tones using multiple oscillators. You can even modulate - but that takes some concentration 🤓

Brilliant! What a fab demonstration and explanation of how this all works... Thanks, Starsky!

I used to use the PPG 2.3 . The Prophet VS was lovely but short lived. The 3rd Wave is exciting and even more now it has Wave Turn it a winner.

Starsky this is a great comparison! I can't wait to update my 3rd Wave. it's such a good synth and probably my most recommended flagship synth to anyone.

Thank you Starsky - very useful. Trying this out at the weekend!

The update before this that added the now colloquially named “Vintage “ effect ( and free running oscs I believe) upgraded the subtractive / VA engine sound from good to gorgeous and lush .

I, too, am fond of the black keys pentatonic scale when playing with different sounds on synth 😉

The oscillator leakage on the Prophet VS makes the comparison a bit tough I would say. Especially if you press some keys in the upper register on the VS you can hear the previous pressed keys leaking slightly. I have actually used this by purpose at some cases ;) ... and I must admit the 3rd Wave does a great job and sounds really great, thank you very much for the video!

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

Yeah it's never going to be exact, I was really trying to show how the way the samples are processed result in similar tonal characters. The fun of old synths... the one thing you can't hear in this is the clatter of that keybed!! Other things that try to be like the VS or PPG just aren't .. because they're not working at such high clock rates so don't do the same thing, then add anti-aliasing filters they need at those rates, plus anti-imaging. Both of which clean up the signal but lose the character.

@SimonDanielsson

7 ай бұрын

Yeah, I understand, hehe, the keybed that felt so good when I first bought it and the aftertouch that had problem with the cable inside getting loose now and then. BTW, I really appreciate all the videos you create, diving deep and spreading knowledge. I love the comparison videos where we can get to know things not possible for us that don't have both synths to compare! Great work!!! You got me engaged in this one!! :) @@StarskyCarr

It’s not the right color, but it’s becoming apparent that the 3rd Wave is a bit of a Swiss Army Knife of synths in what it can do. The continuation of the PPG legacy was already a selling point/sold for me, but then came the demos of its analog style capabilities and now porting Prophet VS files. It’s pretty much a must-have now, isn’t it?

@peterkadarmusic9728

7 ай бұрын

That's the conclusion I'm coming to. Maybe I can save up and get one next year.

The 3rd wave sounds great - would take a while to learn all the settings to get the best out of it. Matt Johnson did a few vids on the 3rd wave earlier in the year on his channel - the one called 'Sonic surfing with the 3rd Wave' sounds awesome - I wish I had HIS left hand...

great video

Groove doing work, congrats on the new stuffs. I would love one of these but alas out of my price range. I don't think it's expensive considering you get 4 x 6 synth engines with their own dedicated outs.

Everyone could benefit from letting their inner GEEK out. And those that GEEK shame let it be known there is something wrong with themselves. Soooo. GEEK OUT.... Get your GEEK on...

I think the 3rd wave Groove is my next purchase, now do I sell my Iridium, Polybrute or Novation Summit? Starsky which would sell?

I wouldn't sell your VS - it's just so present! Does the 3rd wave have a 'panel mode' where you can instantly make the sound reflect the pot positions?

How are you finding the desktop? Have one on the way but wondering about the keyboard! Have a Hydrasynth Deluxe to control it with polyphonic aftertouch. Thanks for the quality and detail of your reviews. 👍

@StarskyCarr

6 ай бұрын

The desktop is great. Theres just a few multi functions but all easily accessible eg 1 set of knobs shared between the 3 oscillators, 2 sets of env knobs for 4 envs etc but you can easily access the others using the dedicated buttons - if the synth version didn’t exist I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid.

@100haymaker

6 ай бұрын

@@StarskyCarr Thanks for reply. Got one yesterday and you were right. Very easy use. Updated no problem and added your VS waves to it. Thanks for going to that trouble.👍

Maybe sample all the sq-80 waveforms i liked them myself.

Your demo is great as always. I have a question though. Is it possible to do vector mixing on the 3rd Wave? I doubt it.

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

Not exactly. You would have to balance the 3 osc levels (or 4 parts) carefully. So you can… but it would take some thought. Maybe possible with a daw and changing levels between parts etc. I’ve not thought too deeply about it but if you could set up a macro in something perhaps..

@GrooveSynthesisMark

7 ай бұрын

We are working on allowing level mixing via modulation of the 4 multi-parts to simulate vectoring. This means not just mixing 4 difference oscillators as on the VS, but 4 entirely different patches (with 3 oscillators each). Verrrrrrrry powerful. Coming soon to a new OS update. Stay Tuned!

@michael999michael999

7 ай бұрын

Amazing!!! So so happy with my 3w (keyboard), my favourite feature being the resonance / bass compensation (I'm a P10 owner, go figure)

@mranalog241

7 ай бұрын

@@michael999michael999 Be sure to check out per-patch resonance compensation in the latest P10 firmware. It’s subtle compared to the 3rd Wave’s resonance compensation but still very useful.

@deutsch4205

5 ай бұрын

@@GrooveSynthesisMark I see you limited this to the sequencer only in the 1.7 update, why not allow per-part volume to be a destination in the mod matrix?

I used to be an IT guy and have some basic knowledge of sampling. Nevertheless I wondered: “What the heck is Starsky talking about?“ 😆 And now for something completely different: I can‘t decide whether to go for the 3W keyboard or module. Do you feel constrained by the smaller number of knobs and buttons on the module? Does it result in significantly more menu-diving?

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

Haha... that's what you get for watching on 2x speed ;) I've not used the keyboard version but the main differences are there is only one set of knobs for the oscillators, LFOs and only 2 for the envelopes. So you're not menu diving but obviously going from one to another will result in the knob positions being incorrect. The screen gives plenty of feedback so I don't see it as an issue tbh. There's plenty of synths with less on the panel. In short then, no.. :)

@RayyMusik

7 ай бұрын

@@StarskyCarr Thx, that helps. Now I‘m gonna watch the video again with .25x speed. ;)

@michael999michael999

7 ай бұрын

Go keyboard if you have the space, for sure. The keybed is really nice and it's pretty much knob-per-funciton.

@dodgingrain3695

7 ай бұрын

They keyboard is great if you can spend that much I recommend going that route.

Can you please tell me if the potentiometers on 3rd wave are relative easy turned or super sluggish like on the sequential trigon 6? 😮

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

They’re not relative and I’ve not noticed any sluggishness. Theres a nice bit of resistance. They feel like they’ve got a thick layer of butter between the knob and shaft.

@infestedalien

7 ай бұрын

@@StarskyCarr thank you! Do you feel like the desktop version is ok even if few things are reduced in the hardware interface when it comes to LFO and OSC?

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

@@infestedalien yeah its no biggie whatsoeverMore knobs is always appreciated, but this doesn't slow you down.

Mr.Starsky, am I missing something or the full and complete review mentioned in the very beginning is still not there? Still looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

@StarskyCarr

Ай бұрын

Haha no it’s still being made. I got the keyboard version so waited for that to arrive. Will be soon though!

How is everyone feeling about the quality of the 3rd wave effects? I'm selling my prophet 6 bc it's really lacking in that department

@DKH712

Ай бұрын

It's a little better, but it's not that great. I have both. IMO pairing the P6 with a nice reverb/delay is a must. I use mine with the specular tempus

Are there any factory VS presets for the 3rd Wave included with the new wave tables?

@GrooveSynthesisMark

7 ай бұрын

We are working on a new bank that features the VS waves. We'll include it along with the official OS 1.7 release!

@labouch

7 ай бұрын

@@GrooveSynthesisMark that is so cool. Thank you for a) replying to me (!) and b) for the outstanding customer service 🤜🏻

@GrooveSynthesisMark

7 ай бұрын

Of course! We appreciate you!@@labouch

EMM article says sampling rate was 4 - 50kHz for the waveterm, but sounds to my yank ear like you said 240kHz. maybe "2 to 40kHz"? varying sampling rate systems definitely have a sound, and technically incorrect reconstruction filtering has its own special charm. you nailed it, noting that the harmonics are related to the input signal, so the results can be musically useful. 3rd wave needs a VS-style joystick. :)

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

You heard right … 240kHz but that’s the CPU clock speed not the sampling rate. :)

I installed the new OS, but can't find the VS wavetables, where are they? Lol!

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

They’re in the zip. I just clocked in the link in the support page I show at the start

@BigSmNdZ

7 ай бұрын

@@StarskyCarr Thanks, not sure how I missed that, haha. How do I import them?

@StarskyCarr

7 ай бұрын

It’s in the last section of the video.

@BigSmNdZ

7 ай бұрын

@@StarskyCarr Thanks so much!

Huh I actually prefer the sound of the VS on this one. The 3rd wave sounds a little too perfect sometimes

@StarskyCarr

Ай бұрын

The 3rd Wave I think has 'better' or cleaner signal overall. Modern vs 40 year old I guess, but it's got the vibe. Its definitely got more low end. I don't think it's the sort of stuff you would really notice in a mix.