When I listen to these two men swapping Truth back and forth, all sorts of whistles, bells, and lights go off inside me. Oh, what a feeling! 😊

Hoffman and Spira have turned upside down my whole concept of reality... I don't comprehend a lot of what they say.. but I stopped taking life so seriously, and I no longer fear; death included.

This conversation points beyond the words which are spoken and thus makes them as precious as possible. Thank you so much!!!

Thank you all for this inspiring conversation. We're all connected, but it does take time to be truly connected with our minds.

@peteraddison4371

9 ай бұрын

... going into the abstract requires some sort of a connection to-with lettin-go. Like dropping ones' resistance to falling in love, being in flow, unrehearsed in-sync improvised jamming, etc. The analogies will begin to wash over you like a silent explosion, & the quest-i-on like the quest-u-on was will be, is the explosion happening out-side, inside, or both-? Quant-Suff, Very-Scientific ...

Wonderful conversation! Please do it often. We all learn from it. You both are so resonated with each other. Wonderful!

When I hear a conversation between two luminaries like Donald Hoffman and Rupert Spira I feel that we are living in a very special time in the history of humanity whose dimensions are even higher than the copernican revolution

Thank you, Michael, for sharing this wonderful interview with Rupert and Donald. I loved all of it, not the least of which was this by Donald: "Scientific theories are just theories; they're not the truth; and no scientific theory is the truth or ever will be the truth." The following, by Rupert, was also so clear and to the point: "To understand anything, surely one mut first understand the nature of That which understands." I also loved the metaphor about the moth and the flame--so true. To find ourselves we must lose ourself.🙏🏻

OH my! What a Gorgeous Gift!!! To me this is a perfect representation of "New (NOW) Earth" : different perspectives coming together and Creating ever so harmoniously.... a most Beautiful Dance of Life. Thank You All So !

Feels intuitive to me that consciousness becomes unconscious so to speak so that it can experience the joy of once again realizing “enlightenment “

GEB, Spira, and Hoffman? Welp, you certainly have MY attention! 😁👍

@peteraddison4371

9 ай бұрын

... The most difficult part about momentum, the transition, for people, is the real-eye-sing that we were ALWAYS -ALREADY-THERE. like a fish swimming against the current. As soon as it realised what the mediam is that sustains it, awe, that when it stops resisting, the current can be a free ride, like air for a bird, a heli-yum awe hydrogen balloon. Here we go. It won't take many to get it b4 the scales are tipped ...

This picture of Donald Hoffman as a teenage choir boy, cracks me up!

This talk can be summed up thus - We have to subscribe to a deity that exists and "controls understanding and truth" without subscribing to what we are trying to understand because it cannot be understood while we are seeking to understand - because the mind! The word salad is spectacular! The braid mentioned is making a knot of gargantuan dimensions that you will never have a chance of untying, let alone use in reality. After 30 minutes, I cannot continue ... I have more productive things to do that include making things that can improve my fellow humans' life - like this comment - To tie yourself up in knots, listen to this podcast.

Beautiful! Thank you so much. Wonderful to hear you Donald and Rupert to reach the unnameable from the opposite spiritual and scientific understanding ❤

@peteraddison4371

9 ай бұрын

... it is what Alchemy was REALLY on about. The lead to gold thing was mostly a personal inner-outa shifting of perspective awareness. Like Neo & the spoon. Only then, could the elements become more, or, less malleable ... 😂 transformation of !? TO ...

Thank you so much for this. Brilliant.

Great duo for a conversation... Thank you.

I’m more and more convinced The One Conscious is individuating us for entertainment

I love the fact that the scientist has so little ego and is curious enough to ask questions to Rupert.

That was a great conversation. ❤

The work of physicist David Bohm is helpful. His books The Wholeness of the Implicate Order and Thought as a System are seminal ... mainly I think because he doesn't subscribe to Scientism as a belief system,.

I was just hoping for a discussion with these two people! 😊

As we come to recognize the equality of value/divinity of material experience and what we call the one we can know this equations balance, instantaneously...leaving ideas of sacrifice - as in the one sacrificing anything, to be experience, behind completely.

I think infinity was curious. It wanted to experience something other than itself. Hence, it manifested dimensions, time, and space, and a diversity and multiplicity of forms it can experience to interact with other forms and pretend it is separate. We humans hold the trait of curiosity, a legacy of this infinite consciousness.

It's a wonderful conversation, that couldn't go deeper. Another person might have been taken part in it:Iain McGilchrist. Thank you so much!!!

1. Is there a transcript of this podcast? It could be helpful for both sharing and for reviewing. 2. Re the reference to the mind being the faithful servant of understanding, perhaps a statement from Einstein, Dr. Iain McGilchrist, uses this concept in his description of the relationship between the right and left hemispheres of the human brain. Notably in his book, "The Master and His Emisary." He approaches this topic from the perspective one who is both a comprehensive reviewer of neuroscience research (and researcher himself) and also a clinical psychiatrist. I enjoy that this realization that there is something more than what Materialism posits is being approached and described from a variety of directions and not only from the religious/spiritual perspectives.

@VernonGoddard

10 ай бұрын

Yes…..I too would like a printed transcript or a paper to print off and explore. I can’t see any way of printing from this transcript….

Please talk about the difference between our brain and our mind.

@Pallasathena-hv4kp

Жыл бұрын

If you are interested, Swami Sarvapriyananda has many lectures that deal with differences between brain and mind. He is a proponent of Advaita Vedanta.

Just poking around some heads. Typical! Love you guys. Namaste

yes, i get quite confused when one puts it in id, ego, and superego terms. i guess the id are just our urges. then between the ego and superego ... how do they get broken up into our temporal thoughts, individual mind, and collective mind? ... and of course the unconscious (shadow mirror of individual mind?)

Oh wow. The host has a lovely audio book voice. First time here.

I just don't get how meditation is possible. I can't possibly go on silence, close my eyes in a dark room specially for more than 5mins and not fall asleep.

I’m getting that consciousness can be compared to a university… Consciousness modulated, self as many different faculties and flows itself through all of those faculties, including finite mind and time, space, etc and who knows what else

So many wonderful comments. So... I choose, to be funny & wise. 😂

Just surrender! Just Be! Just I Am.

What's the piano music?

There is no such thing as "the mind" .. Neil Theise says it best in his last sand talk. There is an individual mind that's linked to this lifetime this body this time and there's an individual mind and collective mind. The mind is a tool that is constantly creating the known reality in this time and space. We are the creator once we become aware of that we can use our tools better.

@clumsydad7158

Жыл бұрын

so you're talking a tripartite understanding? i can go along with that

If you want to understand JC's resurrection, read Plato's Myth of Er. It wasn't post crucifixion. It was the Eleusinian Mystery Ritual. Freemasons perform a mock resurrection for the 3rd degree. In the past, it was a 3 day event, involving drugs and an Out Of Body Experience. Attendent Adepts were usually women. Lazarus and JC both had women there. Journey Of Souls tells you all you need to know about why we are here really. And, I think that the Garden Of Eden story is just a misreported resurrection story. By people who weren't in on the secret and didn't understand. Just to reiterate, no one was resurrected from being actually dead. But, under the right conditions, NDE's included, you can find out something of what it is like when you are.

If the “one” forgets itself and this is all a manifestation, how is is that collective prayer has been show to be effective ?

@fineasfrog

11 ай бұрын

Consider this: From a little volume called addresses by Bulent Rauf: "There are other snippets of knowledge (wisdom) that have down to us, such as that 'there is no such thing which can really be called a creation', which word (creation) assumes that something 'was not' and then suddenly 'it was', and made to come about (as something absolutely other than just a change in form of the appearance of the Unity of the One). Ibn 'Arabi is adamant on this point: there can be no creation ex nihilo, he affirms. Why then do we refer to creation of man or creation in general or even talk of a creation of man or creation? Can it be that what we call 'creation' or 'creature' is just another dimension (or appearance) of the 'uncreated'? Can it be that the 'uncreated' looked at from another, a relative point of view, 'appears', only appears, to be 'created' (or appears to be absolutely separate, absolutely other, such that it appears as a second absolute reality) due to relative vision? What then causes this relativity, in which we find ourselves, and our vision, perspective and our comprehension of what we see to be so different, so veiled from the reality of things?" One way to begin to see what causes this relative vision is: Consider that Consciousness is One, the One knowing substance; then how does it appear to 'take on embodiment' and appear separate? Is it that the 'One knowing substance' has two characteristics; it can know and it can identify. The zygote, then fetus knows nothing in particular but it is (from our point of view looking on it) the potential for knowing and identifying with various aspects of what it knows. The 'one knowing substance' (from our point of view) takes on the appearance in form of a newborn and the newborn during the first two years of life due to impression received through the five outer senses implicitly and automatically organizes these impressions into the implicit learning that "I am 'in here' in this separate body and mother or caregiver is 'out there' in that separate body and 'out there' is everything else." This is the nascent beginning of relative vision which becomes apparently more and more solid and fixed as we age from two to death unless we turn to consider the deeper view of Unity. What was undivided and One knowing substance (aka the One Consciousness) in taking on embodiment, has learned to see itself as separate from the rest of reality when this is only the appearance and not just what it seems or appears to be. If we take the perspective of the Unitive vision and see that it is the One in its reality or true nature, we can begin to see that it is only the identification (which is a characteristic of the One knowing substance) with "I am 'in here' in this separate body" that puts the One under the impression it is only 'in here' and separate from everything else, separate from all of reality that is only seen as 'out there'. If we contemplate this to the degree that we can understand it intellectually, this is the first step toward unitive vision. Of course, realizing this vision is what the inner traditions call "walking the way or inner path" that leads to the "eating and digestion" of the mental structures that gives us the partial view or the mistaken view and ignorant view of seeing only separation and not get seeing with the unitive view.. It is a movement that can be taken in time and space but a inner movement in metabolizing the template over the knowing substance (aka consciousness) that limits our vision to me 'in here' and the rest of reality is 'out there'. Or consider Rumi: "I have seen the two worlds are One." That is to say the appearance of the world that appears to be separate as manifestation (aka manifestation, appearing as the many is due to relative vision) is not separate from the unmanifest. The only thing that makes the division is relative vision. In this sense it is a partial view of being identified with thought-form (fixed impressions that the One Knowing substance has identified with, a partial knowingness, prior to realizing the Unity. When we only see the partial view, this partial view has consequences. We can't really see or understand this clearly until we begin considering and developing a somewhat stable view of The One Unity via unitive vision. Rumi quote: "You (the One that is the Unity) gives this prayer and You, apparently as separate, receives and prays this prayer, otherwise how would the rosebush spring from the bush." In other words that which prays dissolves into that (One Wholeness or One Reality) to which it prays. And once the separation is dissolves, then there is the One Reality praying through its vehicle that no longer considers itself as separate from the One. Rumi: " Because the heart (the seat or essence of the knowing substance) is the substance, speech only the accident (partial view) is subservient, the substance is the real. How much more of these phrases of words, and conceptions? I want burning, burning; become friendly with that burning! Light up a fire of love itself 9the reality of love) in thy soul (knowing substance), burn (dissolve) thought and expression entirely away." Thanks be for your question for it is from and through the putting is words the question that the answer will unfold to us from within our arm span since in reality or essentially there is nothing outside our 'arm span' when not just seen through the out senses but when the outer senses and the impression they give as "in here" vs 'out there" are allowed to melt back into the matrix of the Unity which is not separate from our simple presence that we know through the body that appears, only appears as a form as separate. Thanks again and a good night of sweet dreams to awaken in the morning in the sweetness of the One reality that is also known as the One Love.

@fineasfrog

11 ай бұрын

The short answer is that the collective is in reality also the manifestation of the One, not separate from the One as is each individual. Only our mode of ordinary perception makes us and others appear to be separate. The other answer is long and detailed which I will also post to you.

@fineasfrog

11 ай бұрын

Just to be clear each individual is also not separate from the One which some call 'God' and unknowingly assume they are separate from God. However there are not in reality two separate realities and there is only one reality or one God that is the reality of Love. So necessarily each of us is a unique manifestation of the One; it really can not be otherwise except we can see our self as separate and so we think, feel and act as if we are separate. We surely appear to be separate and seeing through this into a deeper view of the reality of the Unity is maybe a life long undertaking. Some call it "the impossible that is a possibility". It only appears as impossible. Lewis Carroll had one of his book characters say, "I practice believing six impossible things every morning before breakfast." He is saying he can enter the state of wonder when he wants to. Rumi says: "The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell don't just go back to sleep". Thanks be.

@fineasfrog

11 ай бұрын

@@clarebagsIt is not easy to be clear, even intellectually, about these things much less realizing them and living them day by day. When people say, things like its "not happening" it is also true to say it is happening but only in the relative world. (A rough approximation if you or I get sich in this world it is the body-mind that is sick yet what we are "as a 'thought' in the mind of God is not affected. However it is only to the extent that I realize this that it makes we not longer afraid. And even if I am no longer afraid, I still wish to take care of the body-mind as best can be managed. My teachers teacher once said: "I am not God but I am not separate from God and this is true of you but you don't as of yet completely realize it. The relative world also known as the world of appearances that can and does have relative consequences but only in the temporal-spatial; it is all in the world of appearances in what we call time and space (location). We can hear about this kind of idea but there are like seven different possible levels of understanding it and in each of these 7 levels there are like three levels or differentiation in understanding. Roughly speaking the relative world (and it happenings) is just for a time and it is said to be "not real" or "not happening" because it does not have stand alone existence. A very rough analogy that unfortunately can easily be misunderstood is like a stage play; if someone gets shot and dies he doesn't keep appearing in the play. Yet the writer might include a scene where there is pray that raises him form the dead. In this world our prayers canmake a difference. The shot actor in the play is alive "backstage"; that is to say when we die our eternal essence does not die. Getting well or recovering in this relative world from a gunshot wound that was nearly fatal in this world can mean our connection with our real spirit is strengthen and so we get well. (The unmanifest spirit needs a kind of 'refined substance' that is like itself for it to be fully effective in the manifest (aka relative world). This this not understood clearly by our world. (As an analogy of what this subtle substance might be like, it is similar to the refreshment we get from a very good night's sleep.) Also not understood by our world is that there are levels of what is called the afterlife. (My teacher once said: "The after life is here (you can realize it) after you die in love and actually completely get here." If "nothing were happening" then there could not be love on earth, in time and space. Love would remain unmanifest however it wishes to manifest. Rumi says to God: You cast us like sunlight on to the earth (time and space manifestation). The saying in Rumi's tradition puts these words as if from the mouth of God "I was a hidden (unmanifest) treasure and I loved to be known so I 'created' the world that I might be known". So how is there a creation? (Reread what Bulent says about this.) My teacher used to say: "It is all done with mirrors". I prefer to say: The creative imagination of God in taking on embodiment loses direct knowing of its oneness with God and learns to see a world/creation "out there" and I am "in here" all alone and everything else is "out-there". In other words being under the influence of only this level of perception, we, our identity, feel separate and acts as if it were separate because that is all it knows; that is all its direct perception reveals to it. This world from this relative vision is happening but if we wake up to see with unitive vision, we see it was not the way we thought it was. We need to understand all of what is being described can best be understood as modes of perception rather than as some kind of fixed picture and it is "out there" that we call the world or creation. How pray works can be said to be because of the subtle substance, we all have something of it and this substance is on different qualities and we have have more or less of any one of the qualities. Otherwise we would not care for ourselves or our family and friends. Prat can work and your question seems to be how does it work. I suggest reading and studying these books "Sacred Influences" and "Deeper Man" both by J. G. Bennett, Or maybe read "The Alchemy of the Heart" by Reshad Feild Actually to answer you question is a disservice to you if I don't leave you with a deeper question that burns in your heart. So I ask you what is it you most want to know that will allow you to better be of serve to realizing your true nature and serving mankind and this world that is surely in need of people with real understanding of these deeper matters. Thank you for asking and keep on asking, even ask me, but mostly ask in your heart.

sometimes I'd love to annoy the heck out of Rupert with philosophical questions regarding his "knowing" things As an outside source so many things seem like speculation and assumptions..

Is this a replay of what has already been uploaded on Rupert's channel?

@scienceandnonduality

Жыл бұрын

This is an original podcast we produced for SAND, not sure what Rupert has on his website.

@IAn0nI

Жыл бұрын

@@scienceandnonduality do you know what date it was recorded?

@scienceandnonduality

Жыл бұрын

@@IAn0nI recorded two weeks ago. All original.

@IAn0nI

Жыл бұрын

@@scienceandnonduality thank you

The source cannot know its creation - I remember reading something similar in A Course In Miracles.

To me Rupert sounds incredibly egotistical and all knowing! Incredible that he is so sure of himself!

@timoxyz1466

11 ай бұрын

same here, no one even dares to push back about his assumptions, would be so much needed

@plumeria66

10 ай бұрын

He sounds very confident but if you see him speaking, he looks very humble which he is.

@danielu1763

9 ай бұрын

The basis is, as understood here, direct referencing from what is. This is what true “knowing “ is. I also understand that post awakening is not, as is often thought, a state, but an ongoing process. I can see the same happening to awakened people around me. The character has traits that may lag behind the understanding of what is. That being said, I hear a real humility behind Rupert’s words. What is is experienced, and cannot be encapsulated by belief or wordings.

Will someone please debate Hoffman..?

@sir.santiago5922

Жыл бұрын

Why?

@Pallasathena-hv4kp

Жыл бұрын

@sir.santiago 5922 When debate is engaged honestly and humbly it can reveal truths. Also, “Steel sharpens steel.”

@beerman204

Жыл бұрын

@@sir.santiago5922 Hoffman is controversial... that does not mean he is wrong, but a debate with a "defender" of traditional physics could bring out issues not exposed in a friendly discussion....

😮😮😮.

2 of my absolute favourite gays. Impressing!

Thanks! There's another way of knowing. An unknowing, a great love, palpable mystery. Love is a most powerful knowing. The Old English word "kin," "kind." Like Andrew Harvey put it: the direct path. "Same conclusion," fer sure! 🌿🏕🌲🕊

They both complain about language limitations. Donald is asking if we don´t use spiritual or religious language, what language can we use? The solution is to start using the language of mathematics. That's what Donald is already doing. But for that you need to have a sufficiently developed abstract mind. Then, of course, you need to continue developing your mind. Rupert says: " we have to find the language that is as free as possible from the limitations of language particulary the limitations of the spiritual and religious traditions". Mastering the language of mathematics is the first step, but most of us are not even there.

@levlevin182

10 ай бұрын

Sophilos the knowledge of ❤️

Sooo the Trinity is… I am the source, the cause, and the effect… Or before I am is the source of I am From I am is the effect… The source, the cause, and the effect I won… Source I am as Susan

20:40 Chat GPT 1:26:00 killer app

We live in the tree of knowledge of good and evil, because we ate from its fruit. We become what we eat and what we eat becomes us. You see, before God could create the paradise He first wanted to know what would be good and what not. So God thought about it and from His thoughts manifested this tree of knowledge. Look around you, where good and evil exist alongside one another and realize that this is where you are, right in the tree of knowledge. And you may think of this statement as a fairy tale, but it's not. I'm telling you that matter don't even exist. Everything exists in Gods conscious mind. [ But I warn all you world leaders. Not all of us will make it back to the Paradise.]

I'm SSoryy but I can't liSSten to thiSSSS guy rupert SSSSpira talk like a SSSSSnake anymore.