Wow, talk about a perfectly timed video! Just ten minutes ago, I'd submitted an order for a 1.5kW VFD to run my 1.5HP three-phase 220V motor from one-phase 220V input. The VFD is rated for 2HP so I thought I had plenty of headroom. Then I happened across your video with the caution to DOUBLE the VFD rating when using single-phase input. I'd never heard nor considered that, but it makes sense. I did a quick Google search and confirmed ... although the actual calculation seems to be 1.73 times rather than double. I quickly canceled my order and ordered again, but for a 2.2kW (for 3HP) VFD this time. You saved me an expensive VFD burn up!

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Haha wow - no kidding! Glad the timing worked out and you were able to cancel it. Good to know re the 1.73 ratio. Good luck on the conversion & please share your results with me!. What kind of machine are you running?

@HangarQueen

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 I'll be using it to power a bench grinder: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ZYlsmM9xhLGbaKg.html . I'm tweaking Phil's plans just a little to use a 2x72 belt instead of his European 75x2000mm belt, and to use standard inch material rather than mm. I also have an MX-210V mini-lathe and a PM-30MV vertical mill, but both are manual (with DROs and drive motors, but not CNC'd).

Very interesting video watching you interface a VFD with the Acorn. Connecting the Acorn to your PM30 motor is basically the same thing. The main difference is the input to the motor is 0 to 5VDC so you have to scale the Acorn output down. I've thought about upgrading my motor to get higher spindle speeds for running smaller tools but 3000 RPM has been working fine for what I do. I know of a couple of other guys on IG that have upgraded their PM30s to 3-phase motors with great success. I look forward to seeing where you go from here.

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the kind words as always, Mark! I look forward to seeing where it goes, too! I've got to upgrade the base before really running an upgraded spindle. So i'll be doing the base and spindle in the next little while, and will be sharing the progress! Have a great weekend :) - Adam

Dude youd have way more subs if you were a bit more frequent with vids. This is grade A content.

@adamdebowski2037

4 ай бұрын

Cheers for that! Comments like these are great motivation to put out more videos.

Nice work. Thanks for the video.

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Cheers! I’m glad you enjoyed it!

The VFD will just calculate the rpm based upon motor rpm data, the Hz and the analog voltage. Unless it has an encoder providing input, it will never be more than a calculation. I have never heard of that brand of VFD, but it seems to have many setting parameters, and appears to be quite decent. I recently put a Baldor/Parker one on my mill conversion (most difficult yet), the manual was many hundreds of pages, and it took me almost a full week to set it up properly because one simple thing was overlooked. Of course I needed far more than simple start/stop and speed control. As I had to have spindle orient and specific start/stop rates. It also had to be setup for rigid tapping. Fortunately I now have two machines with same model of drive, so the second machine setup only took a few minutes. These modern drives are amazing in their capabilities, with all the potential possibilities that are available in the parameters. As for the compromise between increased Hz vs overdriving the spindle with pullies, you might just want to go with a larger motor to begin with, as either other choice will reduce output substantially.

@adamdebowski2037

10 ай бұрын

Hi @MotorsportDiesel - Would you mind sharing the motor part number/details? Are you really able to rigid tap with an asynchronous AC motor? Is there an encoder on the motor? Thanks for sharing this - Adam

@MotorsportDiesel

10 ай бұрын

I use Linuxcnc, and I have an encoder on the motor stub shaft. It is a Baldor 3 phase Fadal spindle motor. You could also drive the encoder from gears or a pulley, either way would require you to set it up properly to make sure one revolution equals the encoder pulse count. I have a video on my channel that shows how it all works in Linuxcnc.

@adamdebowski2037

10 ай бұрын

@@MotorsportDiesel that’s very helpful - thank you!!

I'm using mach3 and gave up trying to run my spindle vfd through it. You're pushing me more and more to take a dip into centroid.

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

The more I use the Centroid controller, the more I'm loving it. It seems to be really intuitive. I've never had an issue connecting any external hardware. So far I've hooked in a wireless pendant, limit switches, a touch probe, e-stop, a work light, and now spindle control. It's never taken me more than a couple minutes to have everything working, and it's quite reliable. I get ethernet communication faults once in a while (maybe once a week with heavy use), but that could be on my end. I don't love the software fees, but if I were to get another machine, I'd still stick with Centroid. Take these words with a grain of salt - I've never run a different controller! Cheers - Adam

New video soon? Pretty please? You make some great content

@adamdebowski2037

10 ай бұрын

Thanks @mad1337nes! It’s kind words like these that keep me sharing projects. I appreciate you 👍 working on an “easy to machine” project now that will go totally sideways if the pm30 can’t hold the accuracy. Maybe it’s worth sharing! 🍻🍻

you can run like 120hz and double speed there are VFD rated motors. I don't think you can get the RPM's to align perfectly, also looks like you are running a older version of cnc12

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Joe. Im not sure if this motor is inverter rated. The spindle motor I end up getting will be, and will probably be a 2 pole, 3600 rpm motor with bearings rated over 10K rpm. Didn’t know my cnc12 version was outdated. Will check it out - thank you 👍

@joesmith2465

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 I used a leeson motor and a cheap vfd on one of my builds was able to overdrive it looks like your on the right track. Playing with the accel and decell ramps and make sure don't over voltage without using a braking resistor.

Hi Adam. Great work here man! I've got a PM30 that I am currently building out as well. Arizona ballscrews, Clearpath motors and centroid so we're pretty similar in that regard (aside from drive motors that is). I just ordered a mag sheet metal brake to make the enclosure and stand for the machine so I'm not quite to any motor upgrades as of yet but I had seen the CNCDepot FM30F and it looked interesting. Did you look into this motor or something similar with ATC functionality integrated and the cost benefit didn't pan out? I'm a newbie at three phase motors so I'd like to know your thought process if possible. Thanks so much for posting!

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Hey Gohnna - that sounds awesome. I don’t know much about those spindle motors, and I haven’t seen anyone put one on a PM30. I think you’d need quite a bit of redesign on the head, and I’m not sure the peak torque is at the rpm range you’d need. Do these need to be water cooled?

@Gohnna

Жыл бұрын

​@@adamdebowski2037 It is a 4"x5"x12" 23 pound 4 pole motor with 12,000 rpm spindle, .0004" runout, 10 amp 3 horsepower. I saw a video of Clough42 running a CNC Depot FM30F (F designation is for the 4 pole motor) on his G0704. I am a novice but the pros appear to be that it is a small form factor motor that is light weight and has automatic tool changing built in and is fully sealed with dual ABEC7 (P4+) bearings. The cons are that the motor and Hitachi WJ200 package are $3600 and that it comes with ISO30. Additionally it requires a constant dry air supply as the motor is cooled by a labyrinth seal where the dry air exits around the spindle. Do you or anyone else reading this have thoughts or opinions here? The rigidity constrains of the PM30 point towards a three or four horse option I would think. Smaller is slow and bigger is too much for the ridgidity of the mill.

@Gohnna

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 Here's a link to the video I'm talking about where you can see testing of the power of the motor. Plenty of other great stuff there too. Trying to figure this stuff out. Drinking through a fire hose. kzread.info/dash/bejne/k5yAxaxvnsepfpc.html

I did exactly this for my PM25. Used an inverter-rated 2.2kW motor with single phase 220v VFD input. The motor is rated for 1:1 speed vs torque over a big range, which is really nice. And it’s controlled by the Acorn. Actually, I’ve done it twice now. Two machines, Acorns, VFDs and spindles. Once on the mill and more recently on my CNC router. I am having similar issues on the router spindle where command RPM doesn’t match at speeds lower than full. I need to figure out the scaling in both Acorn and VFD settings to make 0-10v produce 8000-24000 RPM, instead of Acorn thinking it’s 0-24000.

@Toddimus831

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure the mill spindle is rated for 3600 rpm at 60Hz but I can run it all the way up to 120Hz for 7200 rpm. But in reality, I can’t go that high because of vibration and bearing heat. I replaced the original main spindle bearings in the mill with angular contact bearings but I still need to replace the quill guide bearings with higher rated ones. I think I’ll still have vibration issues though. It’s good for about 6000 rpms though, which is a great upgrade from the original 2500 or so with the original 1 hp BLDC motor.

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

This is great info/feedback. Thanks Todd! There are a few things I'll have to do before installing the motor - spindle bearings being one of them. I'm still running the stock bearings & plan to upgrade to angular contact ball bearing. Would you have any part numbers to share re the spindle bearings you've installed? How are you getting up to 6000 rpm on the spindle? Are you using an 1800rpm AC motor or a 3600rpm motor? This is one of my sticking points right now. Care to share anything else about the pulleys you used? Thanks again!

@Toddimus831

Жыл бұрын

Ok, my memory was a little off. :) It’s rated for 5400 rpm max. It’s a Marathon Micro Max Y366, 4 pole motor. Got it from Automation Direct. It was stupid expensive, way overkill but it’s awesome. :). Haven’t run it in a while since I’ve been playing with my router.

@Toddimus831

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 The spindle bearings were the ones that Hoss used for his Grizzly 0704, which are probably too small for your PM30. I bet someone has done it on your machine too so you could find what they used. One key bit was that you need some shims because the angular contact bearings aren’t as “tall” as the original wheel bearing type that’s original.

@Toddimus831

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 and I was wrong about the max speed I get. If the motor is rated for 5400, I think I limit myself to something like 80% of that which is still a big upgrade.

And the reason you can't use a single phase to 3 phase converter is why?

@adamdebowski2037

8 ай бұрын

You sure could, but you’d still need a VFD for speed control interfacing with a CNC controller. I’m just showing how I run a 3 phase motor without a phase converter.

Hey, what you doing is awesome 😎, how can I contact with you I have few questions I be grateful for help😊

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

You can send me an email if you’d like - it’s in the about section on my page. Cheers! Adam

@mechanicalpoland9358

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 thx for sure I will write thx again

@mechanicalpoland9358

Жыл бұрын

@@adamdebowski2037 hey in the information section you didn’t put your email address

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

@@mechanicalpoland9358 that’s strange. I don’t see it now either, but I’ve been getting emails from KZread. You can reach me at adamd.cnc@gmail.com

My gripe is why the heck we call 220 single phase. There are TWO hots, and they are out of phase. There are actually two phases. One less hot with 110 would be ZERO phase then? Oh and if you add another hot, 380 we call it three phase. But 220 should be called single phase? Feck! We're ijits!

@adamdebowski2037

Жыл бұрын

Hahaha I thought this for a very long time! But the “phase” happens BETWEEN leads. So if you only have two leads, there is only one phase between them. But if you have three leads, there’s a phase between 1&2, a phase between 2&3, and a phase between 3&1!