very useful and very interesting and a Few surprises. I will use this a future guide for my own incline I have planned, thanks you Chris ✔✔😃😃

@LittleWicketRailway

Ай бұрын

Glad you found it useful

I've done a lot of battling with gradients over the years! I'm not entirely sure those tests are representative of how your locos will perform on your layout though. Coaches can have quite a bit of drag, especially if they have lights, pickups etc. Also I think your track plan showed that the inclines are on curves, which will affect performance too. Fun as a comparison though!

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's nowhere near a perfect test and I think the results are pretty generous in some cases, but it's given me some reassurance. Next challenge is accurately building the gradients.

Ohhhh Testing Grades. This is a fun video. I have a 40' n scale with a pretty constant 2.7 uphill one way and down the other. subbed. I enjoyed watching and look forward to seeing more. Keep the good vids coming! Brian

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Brian 👍

Great video Rob, that’s some very useful information I have 2% gradients on my layout and know some locomotives can struggle on those.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Do you have any problem locos?

@RobA500

2 жыл бұрын

@@LittleWicketRailway think one of my worse is a last generation Hornby large prairie, not their current one don’t have one of those as I went for Dapol instead, that got stopped by a slight kink on level track once I couldn’t believe it, it just sat stationary with wheels spinning. Even the Oxford Adams Radial beats it and that is quite feeble. Like you I have a LMS 2p but in SD&JR livery and yes they are rather feeble as well.

Very useful video

@LittleWicketRailway

Ай бұрын

Thanks 👍

Interesting results Rob.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Anita

The thing is the higher your grade, the more track length you need. In metric the gradient system is pretty easy to work out,as 1cm equates to 1 per cent,2 cm height equals 2 per cent and so on. I try not to go above 3 cm per metre height, and 15 cm max height as I don't have enough running space Also with my first, second, etc, radius bends, I never add any incline, I always have the curved mains etc, on an even surface and then I continue the ascent/descent.

I have to join the crowd and say I too have had a bad experience of adding curves to an incline and had to ditch my first layout attempt as a result. I am hoping to run 6 or 7 coach trains up a 12% incline and (if I can find the space) 3 coach trains up an 18% incline, but I may be cheating by working on a Swiss mountain railway.

Very insightful video!

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Cheers 👍

Excellent trials Nice one Rob

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

Just wondering if the weight of the tenders on your large steam engines should count as trailing weight rather than loco weight? I'm making the assumption they aren't motorised, and wonder if that would explain some of your more disappointing steam engine results? Great informative video, thanks for making and sharing.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

You're right, none of them were motorised, so they're essentially just extra weight.

@barnabykirk7662

2 жыл бұрын

Do bear in mind that generally tenders weigh very little, so it shouldn’t make too much difference

Nice variation of video Rob! I'm sure there are plenty of people that will find this useful. I did a much less scientific experiment on my layout last year. I was surprised how poorly the tender driven locos did compared to the loco driven ones of the same size. Traction tires might have also been part of it. I see a lot of comments on the effect of curves. That was my main takeaway too. Curves and carriages significantly changed the results. I guess your next step is to try the actual helix. Good luck!

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

A few people are saying curves make a huge difference, so I might have to do a smaller test to see what difference they make.

An interesting test and how you achieved the weight for rolling comparisons. You should make the results table available as a download document for anyone that would like to print a copy out for themselves.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks John. I'm in the middle of repeating the test on a cured gradient. Will upload the results of both tests when I'm finished if you think they would be useful.

Good idea for the test but agree with the earlier comments ref curves. Chadwick Model Railway has done has done fair bit of testing on his Helix but not to the degree you have gone to. Maybe manufacturers ought to provide this type of detail based on an industry standard test, using say 2nd or 3rd radius curves from a standing start with a 'standard' coach? Or perhaps too many variables. Informative video 👍

Was relieved to see the hattons class 66

Great project farm style video.

I'm designing a new layout. I'm going to use two helixes due to the layout of the room. I've already brought a couple of packs of the power packs from DCC concept for my locomotives. The locomotives I've got are A1's, A3's, A4's, P2's, W1's and a few other classes including class 47, 40 and Deltic. Watching this video as showed me what some of the locomotives can do on the gradients. I'm thinking about 2% if not 2½% gradients for my helixes

The introduction of any curve will unfortunately void your results as the curves will slow the engines. Any helix will be curvy depending on the space available. A good test for the straight none the less, well done. ATB, Andy.

It would be interesting to see the same test done again with the DCC Concepts Powerbase to see what a difference it makes on the results table.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

I'd be interested to know how much of a difference it makes, my only issue with power base is that I don't want to put magnets under my locos.

@nicksouthorn1248

2 жыл бұрын

@@LittleWicketRailway My concern is the cost, but I guess there are cheaper ways to do the same.

@nicksouthorn1248

2 жыл бұрын

@@LittleWicketRailway Rob, Other reviewers have had more success, for instance a pug hauling 4 carriages up 3%. This left me confused so I’ve given this a lot of thought. I have come to realise that one weighted carriage has very heavy weight distribution on the wheels compared to the same weight over several carriages. In other words it is not a like-for-like test.

Very helpful, although the weight of tender engines would have been more relevant without the tender. More important is the influence of curved track. I suspect from experience that radius 2 and 3 curves can reduce the haulage capacity by up to 50%. Has anyone done any experiments on this?

interesting video thanks for sharing

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Keith 👍

You should take a look at DCC Concepts Powerbase before you build the helix. It is something that does work. Charlie put it on his Chadwick Model Railway. I have done some experiments with a product called Nano Oils. They have a kit with three grades of lube for model railways. I have some heavy 2-8-0 locos made in 2004 -2005 with QSI DCC and sound. From the box I test with my Digitrax throttle and those locos will take half throttle before those start to move. I remove the old QSI DCC system and replace with Soundtraxx Tsunami Steam 2 decoders. Then I open up the gear box. I use the heavy weight lube for the gears. it is not a grease, but an oil. With a mid-weight grade Nano Oil I lube the sprung brass saddles for the axles and the motor shaft. I reassemble the loco. With lightest weight Nano Oil I put a micro drop on the drive rods at the pins/screws and any place where the rods slide. Then I run the engine around the track to get the lube worked in. Now with the Digitrax throttle barely turned the loco begins to move. So, less resistance in the gearing and the rods also equates to more power available to pull more coaches and wagons. There is no gear noise or motor whine at all. I model On30 using Peco O-16.5 tracks. (1:48 scale) My room layout has grades of 2.5%. However, I am designing a traveling layout, using AnyRail. Maximum grade is 5.5% and minimum radius of 15 inches. It represents a mining layout in the mountains. Locomotive power will be limited to Porters 0-4-0 to 0-6-2. Like you, I need to do some testing, but I will try a curved test track at 5.5% as this layout has very little straight track. It climbs from 0 inches to 20 inches, but there no Helix.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

I've been following Charlie's progress with the helix closely. He had some wise words in the last video. Power base just doesn't appeal to me though. Thanks for letting me know about the oils. To be fair some of those locos hadn't been serviced in a while, so maybe they were partly fighting themselves up the slopes. Sounds like a good project. Hope to see it at a show one day.

You really need to try your locomotives on a inclined curve. I did the same tests as you on a straight. Thinking all would work I put a 2% incline on my layout double track with a 2nd and 3rd radius at the top and bottom. This was a huge mistake. 1/2 my locomotive with a small rake can’t make it up curved part of the hill. Trust me your “coach”number will drop significantly.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

You've got me worried, I might have to give this a go with a curved track.

Great video! Have you thought of a gradient in curves? I have heard a lot about that but haven’t seen much about that.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

A few people are saying curves make a dramatic difference, so I might have to try a smaller test to get an idea of what the impact might be.

So conclusion, 2% or below should be ok for most Locos pulling 6 coaches! Add weights if there’s a problem! Thanks!

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Pretty much. Closer to 1% ideally, especially if going round curves or if the coaches have a lot of friction.

Interesting experiment.

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Alan. Based on the comments it sounds like I need to try curves though.

@alanrobertson9790

2 жыл бұрын

@@LittleWicketRailway I shall expect the 3D graph shortly, with the new axis curves. Its a pity there isn't a standard testing method so all manufacturers had to test it and publish against the standard method. Maybe you've invented the next ANSI.

Great vid 👍💯👍 learn something everyday cheers buddy 👍

Does your class 73 not have traction tyres?

Hi Robin ,it would be interesting if you did the test again but had 3rd then 4th rad curves on the inclines i think you will be surprised how much more effort is required to go up a helix i recon twice as much meaning all your locos would only pull half as much ..................tony

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

I've already built a 4th radius test helix to see what difference it makes 👍

@Touriste31-kb4gc

7 ай бұрын

Hi, interesting video and great timing for me - I’ve subscribed to your channel. I’m about to start building my layout and have planned a helix to get down to my fiddle yard. The rising line is planned to have a 3rd radius curve at 3%. I’ll be running diesels pulling up to 6 coaches or 18 four wheeled freight wagons as I’m limited to max 2m length sidings in the fiddle yard due to space constraints. I’m coming to the conclusion based on the comments here that it would be useful to build a curved test track and test each of planned loco/coach/wagon configurations at 3% before building the helix - fingers crossed that my trains will make it up ! I’d be interested to see the results of your 4th radius curve test - will you be videoing and posting these ?

Why was There a blur

@LittleWicketRailway

Жыл бұрын

I've no idea 🤷🏼‍♂️

You seldom mentioned the number of "rubber wheels". Was that because they lacked them? I think rubber wheels make a huge difference and I do not buy locos with our them.

@LittleWicketRailway

Жыл бұрын

Not many of these locos have them. I think only two? The 2P compound does. Fresh rubber tyres definitely help. Old, dry tyres just leave dirt on the rails.

Hi robin I cheat Tri ang series 2 grey track Magadesion class 31 s sorry get away with murder and a good long rake 🤔

You are testing the steamers wrong, big wheel steamers are built for speed, not for power. That is why they are bad at handling gradients.

Great video Thomas isn't very useful after all

@LittleWicketRailway

2 жыл бұрын

Haha, apparently not. Good at moving his eyes about whilst wheel slipping though.