Hey dude just as some feedback I really like that you are only doing one powder per video here. If there were multiple I’d start to get a bit lost with all the info. This one was great showing them and talking about how each length compared and how you would rank them. Very well put together this format is great. Awesome work!

Johnny, thanks for your work on this subject. Many reloaders out there have limited funds to work with. Dave.

This is by far the best reloading data channel I have ever found on KZread ! Keep up the great work!! 👍😎

The Lapua lacked more velocity due to a non crimped bullet. Crimping will add an additional 50 - 69 FPS this is caused by the additional built up pressure before the bullet is released from its case. Shoot lots and stay safe.

Wow late upload you just made my night better thanks man

Glad to hear you talk about work hardening. Consistent neck tension should help with ES AND SD.

Yes another video from my favorite utuber

This is a great series. I took what I learned and applied it to the Hornady 62 grain fmjbt I've been using. I loaded them longer and they grouped tighter. Just like your experience with the 55 grain.

You should consider putting together a book.

These are on sale for $99 right now on the La Rue site. Buy them up!

The episode that I was waiting for!

Good stuff, lots to learn. I get similar results using 27.2 cfe223 2.2 col with hornady 55gr sp wc, Im testing with 1:7 20" barrel so velocities are 3100 range. My sd's are crazy too, but Im re-shooting well used perfecta and fc brass (wally world brass!). I did find larger poi shifts and +1" groups with chrono pushed in closer like you are running. Its better when I push the chrono out a bit more but still larger groups with chrono on. My barrel has no barrel device. Thanks for all this testing and hard work.

I was looking at the Larue trigger as well, but I went for the Ruger 452 Elite Trigger, did a polish on the proper places and wow, super happy I did. With the polishing done it went down to 3.5 lbs.

As always, you've made another great video about being a bullet nerd! I'd drop the lapua bullet, and spend that $ on more of the econo fmj selection. Thanks for making reloading videos!

RE: Standard Deviation. Just fired 100 rounds of .308 - 50 with varget and 50 with RL-15. Varget was in the 20-30's and RL15 was close to single digits across the board.

@aklaunch

6 жыл бұрын

What type of primer?

@chuckfinley3152

6 жыл бұрын

dom dumidi winchester

Watched a high speed video of bullets, flat vs. boat tail, shock wave moved around the boat tail and tended to destabilize it. The shock wave stayed behind the flat bottom and led to earlier stabilization. The conclusion was that for short ranges the flat bottom is superior, and the boat tail is best at distance.

You are leaving me in suspense for the H335...lol thanks for taking our suggestion

GREAT work thanks!

I find it interesting that the Everglades and Lapua both have nice smooth concave bottoms, where RMR has the sloppiest base. You can see how the gas will not push straight on the base as it exists the barrel. This will cause group issues. Look how pretty the base of the Lapua bullet is and I bet they all look just as good. When the gas at the exit of the barrel hits that concave base it is going to focus that energy straight back just like a concave mirror will focus the sun.

I have used both style of triggers. I prefer the two-stage. The ability to stage your shots against the "wall" on the second stage is key to my shooting consistency.

These .223 videos are addicting!!!

Definitely anneal. Every 2-3 firings for me. You can do it with a torch, drill, and a deep well socket very quickly and easily. Don’t need a fancy 300 dollar machine. Shut off the lights and pull from the flame JUST as the neck starts to glow. I don’t quench either. I’ve never lost a case from a split neck in my 25+ times-fired Winchester .223 brass. And I trim every case every time even if it’s really not taking much off. Consistency. Neck tension is everything!

@jdkirane7990

6 жыл бұрын

heytonyman You've used the same batch of Winchester cases 25+ times?

Good stuff JRB, I would like to see the 55 grain Hornady soft point. They are close in price to the FMJ but many people report they shoot better. 25 grains of H335 should be a good load. Thanks for sharing. As far as the bad SD numbers it could just be those particular 55 grains bullets and powder so far is not playing well together with your barrel. I’m sure annealing or switching to new brass will help some. Your barrel shoots excellent though and the 1-8 twist should be just fine for 55 grain bullets. Take that same Starline brass and load a couple of your favorite 77 SMK loads and watch your SD’s drop to single digits. That should rule out the brass. Looks like the trigger is working out well for you, that Lapua group was impressive, NICELY DONE! Once I switched to a good two stage it made all the difference for me. Thanks for sharing.

@Jiminico

6 жыл бұрын

Agree mostly with all, except for the soft points. He could try them though. But my experience is that shooting any soft points through a semi-auto yield very poor accuracy because the points get beat up pretty badly from the forceful feeding, unless you single load by placing the round gently in the chamber before closing the bolt. You can test it by feeding rounds normally and extract/eject to inspect the soft points. Also, in general, I wouldn't expect the best accuracy, lowest SD's etc from inexpensive bulk type fmj's. Although, I have had good luck with the Hornady bullets.

Had to watch this video again, as I've been working up .223 loads like crazy. Also tried some Bob's bullets, and had good results. Hornady FMJ's aren't really worth the money, unless you find a deal, as they are "brand name plinking bullets", and aren't all that... Cannelures. Those things. They're good for guiding your OAL. However I believe they need to be well and properly stamped on the bullet, otherwise I see much bad that can come from that. For me, crimping, and neck tension in general, makes a difference in accuracy.

Yesh I'm buying only Everglades bullets last couple batches. Very consistent in all 3 calibers I'm using, price is great, and free shipping!

Great video! Thanx!

Thanks for your hard work! Remembering reloading basic “same for same” did you clean barrel between different bullets and powder? I knew to do so with powder but was just educated on BULLET differences as well..ie coatings , copper content

Great Info Thanks!

Personal favorite : AA2015 24 Grain with a 55 Grain bullet .... never had a 223 that didn't love it!

The Larue MBT went on sale today. 99 bucks!

Man let me tell you I had a super shitty day at work and nothing but chores when I got home, It was my little bright moment of the day when I saw the youtube notification on my phone, then I was super stoked it was the 55gr series! Thanks again for all the work on making videos. I gotta say I like the editing of this one. So are you going to eventually try some different charge weights on a bullet that looks promising? I gotta say to get a true test you need to try the worst SD that CFE had and try that load with the new brass (maybe just 5 rnds). Trying it with new powder and new brass doesnt answer if its the brass or not. I'm looking forward to more to come in this series! Kinda excited about the Xtreme

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

Of course the Xtreme bullets are out of stock when I go to buy some. That's my life. I'll get some as soon as I can.

@tlang1565

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench check out "Sage's reloading" on FB he just got two pallets in. I cant say enough good about this guy. He kept a ton of ua shooting up here in the PNW during the shortages at normal prices too boot.

I would definitely like to see you test the Extreme bullet. I use their pistol bullets and they seem to do well.

You need to watch Brownells at shot show 2018 with the company that makes the electronic anealing machine. Not trying to sell it but watch it, it explained in very good terms and taught me more than I've ever read or heard on the subject. Well worth the time to view.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

Was it the AMP machine? Moparmadman has one and I've seen his videos. They are very neat machines.

@davidunderwood3605

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench Yea I think. Watched couple days ago and was mesmerized at the explination about metals and determintons and the the case auto feed system 30 or 40 minutes. Will have watch again.

@davidunderwood3605

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench yes amp. Sorry laid up with bum leg watch so many vids I get them mixed up sometimes.

Nice gift....Good job Anthony...

Have you seen the "fun shoot video" series about accurizing the at based on barrel nut tightness and pressure points on the barrel? Also he does muzzle brake clocking work. Might be a good series when you find a decent budget load with potential.

When the weather warms up..up home..the chrono will come out along with my 26" .223 Rem bbl. Will be interesting to see the difference between closed breech single shot against my Bushmaster.

Very good video. Only thing I would do in addition is baseline against my .223 bolt action rifle using same ammo and recipe’s and see if the standard deviation gets better or stays the same. I’m making .223 using once fired military brass cases and I use CFE223 @25.5gr at 2900 FPS and use the same Hornady bullets you are using and Berry’s bullets at 100 yards I can typically put 5 rounds center target 🎯 all within the diameter of a quarter. I can’t do that with my AR15. It would be nice to see if it’s the ammo (I don’t think it is) or the firearm. I would bet this would shed a lot of light on things. I know I’ve mentioned it before but you didn’t have a bolt action .223 at the time.

I like the Lapua in there. It’s a way to verify that the results are projectile derived and not due to the rest of the load choices.

Glad the 223 is back..

+1 for Xtreme Bullets. That’s what I use for almost everything plinking, I would like to know how the work out in your test. And it also supports a local business to me 😎

Lookiing at the RMR, i wonder what kind of performance edge you can get with max loads with that lower cannelure , if it would be noticeable

Great video, really appreciate the analysis. Do you walk around with big gloves for your video hands like Seinfeld's George Costanza in the hand model episode?

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

Staying properly moisturized is crucial

I would definitely like to see you test the xtreme 55 grain FMJ!

@Oregun

6 жыл бұрын

drummnl me too!

One other note. I once referenced lymans 47th or 48th as saying primers need to be .003-.005 with .004 nomanal below flush of case. This is nessacary to crack primer pellet for consistent ignition results. Even factory follows this standard.Now Frankford aersanol now makes the only adjustable hand held primer system. I use a modified lee ram prime no longer sold because it allows me to set depth consistantly and hold 100 primers. The Frankford aersonal unit works as good if not better and is well worth the price

@jimhans1

6 жыл бұрын

David Underwood not crack, just to pre-stress the compound, if you crack the compound you can get misfires. And different primers act differently. CCI 450/41 primers usually need to be left so that they just touch the bottom of the primer pocket (usually about flush). Winchester and federal work best when bottomed out (usually .003-.006 below flush). Remington 7 1/2 like to be flush to .002" below flush which is bottomed out for them.

@davidunderwood3605

6 жыл бұрын

jimhans1 I will not dipute your word, however I will say that depth of a primer is partially dictated by depth of primer pocket. I have been setting all my primmers at a nominal .004 for more than 15 years with all brand's of primer, and brass, without experiencing any mis-fire hang -fires or other problems. The only real problem I've ever experienced has been the ocasounaly upside down cci primer because of the yellow foil used tricks my eyes. If you check out the ATK group you'll find they own fedral, cci, blazer and several others. Cci and blazer brass are produced on the same presses with only a head stamp change. As far as primers go I use every brand avilable on the market, including brand's made in Europe when avaible. But I say stick with what works for you. As far as cracking or pre-stressing the priming pellet you are correct as to say pre-stressing the pellet. My terminology is sometimes influenced by my hillbilly side of life. If you read Lymans 49th, page 57 last parragraph it is the source I reference, and is probly in the 48th but I gave that book to a new reloader. I will also note that when need be I will use a primer pocket uniform tool to adjust the pockets in mixed lots of brass or if I am building top target rounds with pistol or rifle. Be safe and happy shooting times.

Hopefully you’ll really like the cmc 2 stage. I run one of those on a custom built 556. I love it I really like the flat. I like the idea of switching up your brass. Are you putting a crimp on those? Have you measured your neck run out? I’ll be curious to see the results of you’re next test.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

Short rounds were crimped, long rounds were not. I do not measure neck run out.

There aren't many that are perfect but I have 3 ar-gold triggers and they are perfect in my opinion. The all time best trigger I have ever felt though is on my Weatherby Terramark, just right above scary.

I like that u use Lapua's bullets. Fun to see how one of the cheapest bullets here in Norway performe against US bullets👍

I have 3 of the MBT2s… I love them.

Switch primers. Those #41s are magnums. Use match primers and your SD & ES will reduce 50%.

I don't know if this has been mentioned, by I have seen that if you clean tour brass in wet tumbler, that you don't get as consistent sd. Something about the carbon buildup on the inside of the neck acts like a lubricant.

Have you considered trying out Armscor 55 grains fmj-bt? Surplus and ammo has them for about $70 per k. I’m thinking about ordering some but I have not heard much about them.

Have you considered how much your powder drops might be varying? It could explain the changes in velocity if they are varying quite a bit. Of course, if you are like most of us, the resolution of our powder measures only goes to 0.1 gr.

Primer, flash hole uniformity, load density. These are what I would look at in regards to SD.

What are you going to do with the Lapua's? Groups looked good when loaded to the short distance. Would love to see you make a SUB MOA target load from them. Yes yes I know they aren't cheap.

Sure someone has said it. But honestly I love my Geissele DMR triggers with their lightest spring. Can't remember weight off hand. But also have timney competition single stage at like 3 pounds in a couple. Put timney in my first ar a M&P15T and the Geissele in my Ruger SR25. Love both for what they are for. So when built a 224 valkyrie and 6.5 creedmoor I went with Geissele. But when I built ar pistol in 5.56 went with Timney.

I'd like to see either the x-treme or Berry's added to the test. I got a Cabela's flyer in the mail today the x-tremes will be 20% off starting tomorrow. Is it possible you're getting the crappy SD's because of the cooler weather? I usually get bad SD with ball powder and cold weather.

I agree w annealing , it seals chambers better but also case neck tension more uniform. Keep the Lapua...

I run the CMC 2stg trigger. I bump fire it on occasion, but usually, because I am not focusing on pulling that trigger all the way to the rear. Seldom happens now because I know the trigger. It's a trigger that requires attention.

I would like to see you represent your CFE223 test and perform your H335 test issuing brass with the same number of fittings, so we can see an apples-to-apples comparison of the two powders. Then do the same comparison with annealed brass, if available to you. Do not carry too many parameters are the same time, otherwise it will be difficult to tell what is actually having an influence. Thanks for all your hard work!

Have you tried the Hornady 55gr SP CANN yet? I bought a box today but here in western NY it will be awhile before I can see how they work. Natchez has them for $8.29 for a bag of 100. I got mine at Cabelas for $14.99. If they work well I will get a bunch from Natchez.

@dontask8979

6 жыл бұрын

Debar Mountain Iv shot alot of them and love them.

I'm here a few years later, but could cfe223 be too slow of a powder. I'm see similar results with 69gr smk and 70 nosler rdf. When I have a lighter charge weight my SD and accuracy improve quite a bit. My theory is that the powder is too slow. The light round doesn't give enough resistance for the pressure too even out. In shorter barrels I believe that the left over powder explodes at the muzzle and moves the bullet slightly. Flat base bullets are effected less by this, could be why the lapua shot well. I've been reloading for all of 4 months so I could be full of it. Love the channel.

cabellas has a rebate when you buy 500ct of extreme bullets you get 100 pieces of pistol brass. you can choose from a couple different pistol calipers.

Something you might try is the 55g Hornady Soft Point. I picked up a 100 of them from Natchez for $8. It's not a FMJ, but it's another cheap option.

Was loading up some cfe223 today that I purchased a month ago, has been sealed until it went into a hopper today.. big clumps of powder almost appeared stuck together. Wonder if there’s some kind of inconsistency in the powder components. Used a plastic spoon to break the clumps but was really bizarre. Loaded up 10 rounds, gonna see if anything weird is going on, hopper was subsequently emptied back into the 223 container and refilled with 335 until I can figure out wtf

CFE223 is a terribly slow powder for a 16 inch barrel. It is slower than what I use for 22-250, .243 and .308 with 24 inch barrels. You may be getting uneven burns in that short of a barrel. My SD for the 250 is around 17. It will put 5 bullets in a nickel at 200 yards.

After testing many bullets in 4 different ARs I think I'm going back to cannelure bullets. Most people never measure their ammo after its been racked. They shoot it and pick up empty brass. What I found was all the non-cannelure bullets moved no matter how much neck tension I used (New starline brass) But the ones with the cannelure never moved. Why do they move? Two reason 1. Kinetic hammer effect. The BCG acts like a sling shot and stops but the bullets keep moving a littel. 2.240" to 2.245" and some got shorter due to hitting the feed ramps hard. 2. Feed Ramps - some are sharper than otherse but they all seem to mar the bullets a little bit. This can cause the setback. Its funny people get very anal about getting the OAL just right, little do they know all that goes out the window after the first shot and the actual OAL of the bullet they shoot is changing. That does not happen with cannelure bullets. Its the reason the military insists on them.

Ever test that chronograph if itcauses any deviation with barell whip on and off im thinking of getting one just hard to with the whole floating barell been beaten in my head from my pier's

CFE and Varget both seem to be a little slow for 55 FMJs, referencing your past videos. Do you plan to try for any other powders? Thanks.

Like to see the Extreme bullets added....

The deviation might be coming from your powder charge... what kind of scale are you using? Does it measure beyond a 10th of a grain?

Hi Johnny, I'm typing this before I have watched the entire video, but hoping you could give me some advice. I have a 24" howa 223 1:9 twist and just bought some CFE 223 to shoot some 55gr Hornady sp w/c. Been hearing mixed thought on the powders temp sensitivity. I live in South Africa and realistically my temp range is probably 12°c and 34°c ( but even more likely 20°c to 30°c), what are your thoughts on what I might expect in this temp range? Thanks

Ok, do you have any experience with Midsouth extreme varmint 55gr. bullet?

Got a velocity trigger in mine at 3 pounds and it doesn't move till it breaks. However I have a crappy cheapo barrel which ruins everything

You did a video on primers and Federal Match came out as #1. Try the Federal primers

Can you do a show on the Browning bar accuracy

The LaRue trigger is on sale now.

JRB, please keep the Lapua in the test, or send my way :) I would like to see Accurate 2520 tested with the 55gr bullets, 28.0gr powder charge, 2.200" OAL with the Hornady FMJ. That's a "5.56x45" pressure load per Accurate, but still below max. Or Ramshot TAC with 27gr same OAL.

Are you throwing charges mechanically or are you hand-weighing and trickling your powder charges? That could explain your SD

I still can't believe that your SDs are that bad. I am a fan of annealing, but not sure its going to cut it in half. Offer still remains on annealing some of that brass for you. You can fit a lot of brass in a flat rate box.

@BoltActionReloading

6 жыл бұрын

I am sure your tired of primer testing but some of my SDs tend to follow my primer choice, but still can't believe that it would be that bad.

@benjaminnevins5211

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I think one of those annealing made easys needs to make it into next years budget.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

I'll email you tomorrow probably. I'm hoping to finish off the 7th firing on my Creedmoor brass and then I want to send them to you. Thanks!

@BoltActionReloading

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench figure out whatever you want to send.

I think being crimped is alleviating some of the effects, of the Everglades bullet’s inconsistent dimensions.

LaRue is a great product, know for high quality. I have bought their muzzle brakes for .30 cal and 5.56 and they are very good.

I'm wondering if your usage of a suppressor isn't impacting your standard deviations

Do you typically use a case gage to check consistence of your brass?

I realize that this video is a couple years old, but since I just started to work up loads for my .223's with CFE223, I found this very applicable. I have a question however after watching many of your other videos. I noticed that you very seldom actually shoot your loads into the bullseye so I'm wondering if you zero your rifle to the bullseye at 100 yards or if you purposely zero it into the surrounding white and using the center of the bull for POA? Just curious! Thanks for all that you do as I have learned a lot from your many videos and comments to same.

@mikeknevelbaard6338

Жыл бұрын

He has mentioned in the past that it is easier for him to see when they are not in the bullseye

I shoot 27.5 grains of CFE 223 with a 55 grain soft point bullet from midsouth shooter supply in my 1:9 twist AR-15. There 1 inch groups at 100 yards plenty good for me being plinking rounds.

I know it's Way late to comment, but how about testing some cheap Speer SP from Midsouth. Some are at or below $0.10

Those are nice triggers

CFE Powders = GREAT velocity. Kind of all over the place though.

@itvnz

6 жыл бұрын

Exactly my experience. I had great expectations for this powder and persevered way to long with it hoping I'd find the spot. Have abandoned it for PowerPro2000 for my long range shooting 69&77 TMK's, with many thanks to Johnny's channel to help me select the right components.

Use that slot with the old brass as a check for standard deviations

I want one of those geezer triggers for sure

Hornady makes a 55 SP with Cann that shoots slightly better than the FMJ. The 55 gns are generally for the old slower twist rate bbls (1 in 12). The 62 gn is optimized in a 1 in 9. A 77gn is best in the 1 in 8. Don't be a Lapua HATER. Pls send any remaining to me!

What length is your brass trimmed to?

How heavy of a crimp did you put on these?

Why don’t you try Hybrid 100 V powder by Hodgdon?

"Lapua"... they charge you a dollar every time you say it.

are all flat bottom base bullets always 55gr. or less ?

Should try the new IMR 4166 powder

I got a shit done of brass what brand would you like only once fired n resized n everything

@youreright7534

6 жыл бұрын

The Jefferson State Reloader any chance I could have it?

Was the cfe with lapua groups a fluke?

What program are you using to show your MOA? Looks like it might be some kind of cad but not sure which one.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

It's called OnTarget