This is AMAZING to see publicly. So few devs can afford to publicly gripe about publishers as shipping games is tenuous enough as it is. It's insane the olympic levels of shittery that publishers pull, even once you have a deal, and it normally stays behind closed doors. Thank you so much for making this.

@kaingagame4351

2 ай бұрын

Yeah I totally agree with this. Plus, what's not mentioned is the risk of publishers not pulling their weight and just sitting back and raking in recoup + profits if it even gets that far.

I don't think Kickstarter is dead. It's not a multi-million dollar guarantee if you show a pre-rendered trailer like it was in 2012, but I've seen at least a handful of indie games break six figures with a good plan. My only critical note though is that you may want to have a more concrete plan for what singleplayer elements will be available though, because multiplayer-only games, especially in the indie space, rarely last long. I've pretty much stopped buying them because of how hard it is to get into them months or sometimes weeks after launch.

@bross92

2 ай бұрын

Additionally, the video element you guys would bring to the project makes this a lot more special and unique than "just another video game kickstarter "

@yutt

2 ай бұрын

Kickstarter is still huge for tabletop games and book publishing. I honestly haven't backed a video game for a decade for all the reasons Danny mentioned though.

@Anubispiro

2 ай бұрын

As far as I know, Kickstarter for videogames is currently used more as a way to convince publishers that a game has an audience than getting the 100% funding from kickstart itself - that's why their goals are quite low. Not as good as before but still useful :) It requires a ton of work though!

@samamies88

Ай бұрын

depends on genre too. Horror, visual novels and metroidvanias seem to do super well still. People seem to now understand that mmos and open world games are unrealistic and don't fund lying/disillusioned devs

On the ghosting thing... I work for a video and animation production company in the UK. Ghosting is so commonplace with deals we thought we'd basically won, we've practically got a whole manual of processes on how to handle those cases now. It's been going on for years. I don't know if it's an exact parallel to the games industry, but it seems pretty typical in the business and marcomms world for whatever reason. The people we speak to are often trying to clinch multiple deals simultaneously, they may agree to one that makes your deal irrelevant, and not even tell you (either out of embarrassment, apathy or just being too busy). Sometimes they just get word from above and their priorities totally change, and sometimes they just move company and don't set up any automatic replies. This is all to say, don't be too disheartened by it. It's pretty normal as far as I know for these types of deals. It's best to just start building a system for dealing with ghosting instead and, like you said, making sure you're not putting all your eggs in one basket and still have other conversations open. I guarantee they're doing the same!

@graphicsgod

2 ай бұрын

#FACTS Heard and seen the same.. good advice!

@brobbeh

2 ай бұрын

I feel like ghosting is a cultural phenomena that started poisoning society slowly since the 2010s. My guess is that it got normalized in online dating first? Then once it was common there I feel like people just pushed it into every other aspects of online communication, personal or professional. It's weird.

@arddermout6946

2 ай бұрын

@@brobbeh isn't it just a reaction to the abundance of social avenues the new media provides? sort of how inflation works when pumping new money into a system, it loses its worth over time hence people are more prone to chase value instead of numbers. the same way that I don't reply to every comment I read; there's just no time to keep track of everything

@brobbeh

2 ай бұрын

​@@arddermout6946I think abundance is a huge part of why but not the only reason. Apps and medias are playing of that abundance and reinforcing the disposability of it's content: Tinder got famous for letting people quickly swipe on a person after just a quick look of their first photo, it gamified abundance and how quickly you can swipe through people without bothering to read about them. I think making this mundane possibly normalized treating people as disposable and not worthy of a refusal message (along with other key factors, like refusals triggering angry behavior in the case of online dating). Ghosting in the case of publishers who have had interviews with you and already took hours to look into a deal for your game seems more than just an abundance issue: the refusal message would not take much time in comparison. Might be a discomfort in dealing with conflict or disinterest as soon as it's decided there's no revenue to be made there?

These videos, the dev journey stuff - they are completely invaluable from the perspective of an indie dev team. So, thank you for that, even if what you've found isn't, you know: a good sign. Gotta go lateral with it - heard, chef.... I'm not saying we're going to rob a bank, just to be clear.

@noonoox12

2 ай бұрын

Heard, chef

I worked in a small studio for about 10 years. One publisher in Japan ghosted us 80% of the way through the project. They stopped responding to emails, and pretended to no longer understand English on the phone. It was weird. We switched publishers. One who was interested, and who we eventually signed with, management had to request that they finally pay us the money they owed us for the previous game they'd published, before we'd sign for the new one... Yeah, that's right, they might just refuse to actually pay too. They have all the power.

@doug2731

2 ай бұрын

Maybe don't give them all the power than. /shrug

I really wish more people who have a lot of opinions and influence would do what you're doing. Too many journalist talk a lot about games and give consumers the wrong impressions of how things are made or a false sense of knowledge. I feel it more people knew how much work goes into every game, they'd give more respect to the games that are made and the creators that created them.

Ghosting is such a huge problem in a lot of industries. I work in music and the number of times managers or labels will full on ghost you after positive conversations is insane. One time talked to a Rock and Roll Hall of Famer, was going great and they asked for stream numbers. Gave them it and immediately cut off contact DESPITE THEM LIKING THE MUSIC.

BigMode , just for funzies

@NoclipCrew

2 ай бұрын

haha, complete the arc! 😅

@grahamwalker2168

2 ай бұрын

​@@NoclipCrewthe narrative would be beautiful

@ryanshea5221

2 ай бұрын

Dunkey is the hero we needed

I love this inside look at the process. Talking about the game itself though... I don't think that game will sell well at all - even with the noclip/Danny O name attached to it. It does nothing unique, the gameplay isn't deep in any real way and its basically a very low tech/budget version of Trackmania which is already struggling - even while F2P and a 1000x more polished. I don't want to knock the effort and work that has been put into it, but it really feels like something that could've been done by a solo dev in a month or two - especially since the graphics are extremely basic flat shapes. Its a game that people would've loved to play back in the 80's/90's when there wasn't a quality game worth your time releasing every 20 seconds. It also feels like it entirely relies on multiplayer to be any sort of actual fun which is a big no-no for indie games. To ask for $200k is a tall order. I really doubt anyone would be happy paying more than $9 for this game, so you're expecting at least 20k sales to break even from funding alone. God knows what other costs have already gone into it. Basically I feel like the decision to go forward with this type of game was a really poor one as even with your extra publicity behind it, there's an extremely low chance its ever commercially viable.

@ryoonio

2 ай бұрын

I have to agree with basically all these points. It's not to say it's not salvageable into something marketable but you may need to pivot and lean into some particular aspect a lot harder. The talk of so many different game modes or things you "might" add is another red flag for investors that gives the impression the vision of the game is not clearly defined. I think there are conflicting goals here - if you want to make a personal pet project (which it sounds like you are attached to) that's fine but don't expect anyone will fund it. If you want to make a marketable project you need to do market research and lean into a direction that will give you a good shot at being succesful.

FYI there's a typo on the "How Does It Play?" slide. Driving that just feel(s) right. ❤️

@BBlueBBasterd

2 ай бұрын

Ahh so THAT's why they didn't get funded!

@fivetwoeighty7012

2 ай бұрын

It just feel right, ya dig?

@callanr

2 ай бұрын

There is also a typo at 10:08 at the bottom right corner. I'm seeing, "smash *inro* 100 physics objects." Not judging or anything. I was a court reporter in an earlier life and I am broken. There is another at 11:24 - "design(er)". 🦥

It's not just in biz dev relations that the one-sided power dynamics exist, it's there across most of the industry, even within first-party. Unfortunately incentives and rigid hierarchies, as well as a lack of transparency, create an ecosystem where this behavior can really thrive.

Bless you, Danny. I respect that this whole thing literally started off as a fun light hearted goof, and now you're earnestly trying to get it fully made.

the dating comparison is on point there are few things as soul crushing as being an average looking guy on a dating app, i cant imagine what having livelihood on the line instead would be like

@gunstar420

2 ай бұрын

I just got an ad saying put pictures of you doing chores in a clean house might increase your chances lmao. Worse thing that happens is you have a clean house!

Ghosting even happens in published products: about 4 months ago, Oni Press did a Humble Bundle with Scott Pilgrim and associated comics with extremely low quality files provided. After customers complained, Humble Reached out several times but Oni Press completely ghosted them.

Thanks for posting this guys. We're working on the game Little Nemo and the Nightmare Fiends right now and we've experienced basically everything you talk about here, including the very weird power dynamics and the ghosting (OH the GHOSTING!) We had a successful Kickstarter in 2021 that got us some development funds that we've been able to use to get demos together for an upcoming "act 1" early access version. But we also kept our day jobs since (as you say) crowdfunding isn't what it used to be, even with a great game and doing all the best practices you're supposed to do. That all being said - everything is chugging along consistently and it will release (we just put out a new backer demo), it's just a slower process.

Nooooooooooooooooooo, there's typos on a slide ("driving that just feel right", "fidelty" and "boundries")

@friendly_inlaw

2 ай бұрын

oh no there's more ("to create an ever expanding the racing sandbox"). Sorry I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, I'm just hoping no publishers were picky little readers and passed because of some slightly funky text

Thanks once again for such an honest and raw look at the messy, chaotic behind-the-scenes of trying to get a videogame made and released. I'm really enjoying every time you folks talk about Stunt Derby and shed light on the creation process. Regarding the "dating" analogy, I think it's slightly off. Having an asymmetrical relationship where it can fall apart at any second, they might ghost you and stop talking to you, and where the main thing you want is for them to agree to a contract to give you the money you need, that's not online dating...that's job hunting. What you're describing is trying to find a good job in today's climate.

Shoutout to Alex, me and a group of friends keep playing (and modding) "Hockey?" all these years later.

Hey buddy, thanks for sharing your adventure with us. I feel the same pain as you... it's pretty difficult and they usually ask you to go in a direction that will not make the game the best it could, but it would bring more money. Fortunately, some fellows get lucky and don't rely on publishers at all. Lucky is a tricky thing, but the secret might be in the amount of times you try. Stunt Derby might be your lucky game, but it also might not be. Don't be sad if that happens, you should keep going and move to the next one. Finish it, put it out to the world, learn from it and start your next adventure. I wish you guys the best, you are amazing!

Also, I think the big reason for "ghosting" is that the first step of the process is just scouts on their own. When they like it, your game gets brought to a broader team, but it's not until after you have gone through at least a couple of meetings when the publisher makes a revenue forecast and does some market research specifically on the prospect of signing your game. This on its own can cause a 180-degree turn in conversations. I've experienced this on at least a few occasions myself.

@dsurge8758

2 ай бұрын

That's totally understandable (and expected), the problem is not taking a few seconds to send a pre-written copy-paste message that says something like "Sorry, but after bringing this idea forward to the team and doing some more detailed forecasts, we ultimately decided not to move forward with the deal" etc. I think what's happening is that publishers have an internal policy to never flat out say no, because who knows what might happen in the future. Let's say they decline, and the game blows up on social media a week later. Then they can't just go back and say "Actually, it's a yes". They want to prolong it for as long as possible, to keep the door open. Devolver (being the biggest indie publisher) can be more upfront about it, because I suspect they get like a hundred pitches per week, they can afford to miss out on some good opportunities.

@RemcodeRooij

2 ай бұрын

@@dsurge8758tbh there are plenty of publishers out there who *are* up-front about their decision, but also an equal amount who stay vague for a very long time. Not responding to messages in a timely manner and the one-sidedness of the discussion during negotiation is very real though. I kept nodding my head throughout the entire video. I hope to spot Danny in SF sometime next week. I'll wish him good luck on his project.

It may be a bad year for publishing but considering you guys "don't really know what the game is yet" it may be too early to try and get a publishing deal.

As someone who does freelance consutling, this video speaks to me. The communication, the work leading up to pitches that go nowhere. It's brutal but also also extremely satisfying when you get that yes and deliver.

Some of this is very heartening. I waded into some publisher pitch stuff last year and was a starry-eyed newbie expecting a land of gumdrops and fairies and instead I basically got ice cold ghosted.

going in to this video I really didn't expect it to be a perfect parallel to my experience as a Junior environment artist trying to land my first job in the games industry! you describing the discussions to be like online dating is bang on I have be completely ghosted 100s of times, left in limbo for months just to find out that I never stood a chance anyway and recently the worse one I had was I met a recruiter at develop:brighton who chatted with me multiple times both in person and remote for about 3 months (constantly hinting to taking me on) just to have them say "we dont have any junior roles but if you land an interview somewhere else and want some advice for it give me a ring" and then never responding since then 😅 (nice of him to help tho not mad at that ❣) I hope this project lands some funding somehow despite the game dev landscape being so crazy right now 🤞 good luck at GDC!

I am a developer too and my team and I encountered a similar frustration with our game TEOM, a Rogue-lite tower defense game. It's disheartening when they look like they really love the game and then ghost the email, it seems like the game it's not even worth looking at , We thought maybe it was the genre, or that the game is not a big money maker, hearing the same experience from you guys gives us a bit of comfort!

@singularityraptor4022

2 ай бұрын

I checked the game on steam and it looks great. Love the art style, will try the demo sometime. Is the game still in development?

sneaky typo @12:00 “Alex is an award winning game design” insightful and fun video, thank you!

I can completely relate to the "ghosting" as I'm a wedding videographer. I will be contacted by couples, start email conversation, zoom calls, get to the contract stage a lot of the time, and can still get met with silence and never hear from them again.

You don't know how happy this video makes me. I have been working solo on my game for two years now, going at it with my savings and everything I have. At the beginning of 2023 I spent five months chasing publishers and... it took me some time figuring out that it wasn't me. The lack of replies, the ghosting, the false hopes; and I never even got as close to sign any deal as you guys have! I cannot imagine how soul crushing that must be. I thought my pitch deck was bad; my trailers; my game. Perhaps it was just me, not worth even a short reply "no thank you"? I realized that funding and publishing only goes to games that have almost a 100% guarantee they will become monster hits - and even if you are working on one of those, you could still be completely ignored. Every indie developer trying to get their game out there, trying to get funding should see this video: even if you are known (like you guys), it's tough. Brutally tough. And I won't say "don't even waste your time seeking publishers" because I know there are some cool ones out there (with decency enough to at least politely decline - which is far better than the alternatives), but people need to see this is the reality: if you want to get funding and you really need it to make it - make a plan B. Don't wait for it to happen, because either your game will never get made or you will starve waiting for an answer. Putting this information publicly, so clear and straight to the point is a real gift to the gamedev community. It takes courage, and for that - bravo! I wish you the best with Stunt Derby - it looks like a simple, but very fun game (will check the demo later). We need more of those (wishlisted already!).

@DaCashRap

2 ай бұрын

What is your game about?

@RepunkGame

2 ай бұрын

@@DaCashRap Hey! It's an open world narrative game in which you explore abandoned outposts on the surface of Mars - driving a weird off-road vehicle built in 1942.

Honestly - loved this video, what a great insight. Love the transparency. My comment in the game: When you announced it I didn’t know what it was…and I still don’t…it looks like a battle royale driving game but isn’t a live service? Its quite confusing…I kinda wish you would have chosen a platformer or something I could quantify 😅 (sorry!)

1. You're a youtuber who's never made a game before 2. Alex is a dev with a history of abandoning projects and upsetting paying customers 3. You admit you don't really know what the game is going to be Why would anyone fund this?

@160rpm

2 ай бұрын

Sounds like a Kickstarter lol

I would say, that including moving images inside the presentation must be done with care, because exactly that, staring to a powerpoint page with gifs incrusted can just add too much visual noise to the presentation. Better to use videos that can be paused or played at will.

I'm an indiedev working in a studio that did multiple kickstarter campains (three campaigns for indie games, one for a plushie from one of our games). Kickstarter is still great! It helps in a lot of various ways. 1. provides you with money to start, 2. helps a lot to grow a fanbase, 3. It shows if people actually want to play your idea in form of game (and not just like it and forget about it) 4. helps you find a publisher and other important industry people (from consoles, epic game store, asian publisher, other devs for crosspromo, etc etc) if the campain was successfull, as you now have proof that people actually like your product. The goal shoudn't be to fund the game 100%, as development costs are way higher usually than what you can ask for, but it is a great platform to ->k i c k s t a r t

beside the point of the video but i do actually like the existing look a lot. there are a couple of things that jumped out to me as being good additions or changegs dust would be a big one like you mentioned, as well as maybe strengthening the lighting for darker shadows (more?) mist is also another classic of course, especially with colour/arial perspective it could look very nice (and eliminate the need for elaborate backdrops) for the grass texture i think would be better for it to be a flat (or very close to) colour quite honestly, and then later maybe add a intermittent 2d sprite grass. though this + adding dust does make me think how good this game could also look set in a desert environ; in the kind of setting low poly works very well for then making sure all these things relate to a particular setting's palette, which can definitely be tricky. for example the distant fogs, the ground, road and sky etc all working together not just to emphasise the gameplay but also tie it together compositionally. not to tell you your business but just to say i think the current look is very charming, and not a million miles away from where i think you want to be in terms of presentability in my humble opinion!

Kickstarter makes total sense for a project like this, which is so much about coming along for the ride. Dev diaries are a great reason to back the project, and you have a brand that potential supporters can trust.

Good advice on the presentation you got. I always think of the 10/20/30 rule, 10 slides, 20 minutes long, 30 point font.

This is an amazing no bullshit insight on what we have to go through... I am happy to hear that i am not the only one, and sad to realize that ghosting and general lack of touch and clarity is a common denominator in the industry, and has nothing to do with the skills or quality of the product. I wish you the best of luck in this journey, and if you are still looking for an artist, we could happily set you up with our studio! let me know! all the best

Look, we all love and respect you. Personally, after growing up beside the gaming and computer revolution, my educated guess is that the reason you couldn’t get the money is your game idea. A driving game is a hard f’n sell I’d think. There is that one super polished racer track builder that’s already out, and it didn’t do that well. It did ok. Obviously nobody knows what genre or game will explode at any given time, but I don’t think a driving game is it. My two cents. Good luck. You never know.

Yeeaahhhh I went indie end of 2022 and have been utterly emotionally destroyed by the publisher process. It's not something you can really speak out about though, because the industry is both informal enough that people would be offended, but biz-oriented enough that acknowledging funding struggles would put you in a very exploitable bargaining position. This video was very cathartic, thank you 🙏

Such a good video! Very interesting to get a peak behind the curtains of game publishing - thanks!

This was a great watch and really encapsulated a lot of what I've seen being connected to a couple dozen projects over the last couple of years or so. The part of about the asymmetrical communication just being amazingly poisonous really hit exactly perfect. I'd say it exactly the same.

It's funny seeing this as I had been going through the exact same processes, publishers saying yes, then backing out, coming back, etc. Couldn't get anything closed. I ended up with government funding which is an avenue that isn't mentioned in this but has its own pros and cons!

This is really insightful. The other day i was reading about an upcomming boomer shooter that uses Patreon to fund itself/. Maybe having a new patreon is too much between all the noclip stuff, but maybe its an avenue to study? for reference, the game is called "Selaco" (and it looks great as well)

It's probably also just what everyone's been feeling, right? Interest rates have been rising, so no more effectively free money for big firms to throw around. No reason to ghost anyone though, that's really frustrating. How much time can it possibly take to send a polite form mail saying "sorry, we're not going to work with you"?

I'd probably kickstart it, if for no other reason than I'd like to support all you do and I can't necessarily afford monthly on Patreon.

The look of death when you mentioned Pokemon 😂 so what is a good deal from a pub? Right now I'm doing the same thing, paying a developer out of pocket for part time work and I just brought on an artist. We're doing our own games, but my goal is actually to build out into becoming a publisher to help peeps like you guys bring great games to market and take ideas beyond into really stellar experiences. Obvs just starting out I'm eons from that, but it would be great to know what makes a publisher relation a good one.

Haven't seen Nick Suttner since 1UP, god i miss that place.

@muzboz

2 ай бұрын

Nick Suttner has a whole podcast (Eggplant: The Secret Life of Games) with hundreds of episodes if you feel the need to hear his unique and interesting voice some more! :D

@pronstorestiffi

2 ай бұрын

@@muzboz thanks for the heads up

Hey guys can you make a documentary about Ecstatica? It's a 90s adventure action game and it's one of the most unique styles I've ever seen, and never reproduced again. It must have such an interesting story but nothing is known about it? At least not to the public? Pretty please look into Ecstatica

Even if it feels played-out to you guys, please do a Kickstarter! That initial cash flow would also provide a barometer as to how many people are more interested than just wishlisting it on Steam! I would gladly back each project you put out

Gamedev with 14 years in the industry, both working on games and in publishing - a few observations: Business culture sucks, straight up. The ghosting is awful, and unfortunately, I think it's sort of engrained in the culture. It's a known thing that sometimes deals just go sour. That can be because sometimes the lengthy back-and-forth gives investors and pubs cold feet or something else with one of their other deals blows up - literally anything that can introduce even the slightest bit of risk will make a publisher back out. That being said, I recommend if you're reading this and also trying to pitch a game, then your #1 priority should be showing why your game is fun, and #2 should be illustrating clearly why it's not a risk to sign your game. Second, it's important to keep in mind that a publisher is also thinking about how much they need to invest for marketing/PR/release management/community/key art/trailers and all sorts of other operating costs, so while you think your asking price is low there's actually a ton of other costs the pub needs to consider. Your asking price is actually the cost of labor + everything else you need support with. When a pub sees that you're a small team or a solo dev they may be making assumptions about how much support you need, so being upfront about exactly what your needs are (you don't necessarily need to estimate the costs for them, just list what you need) will prevent a publisher from making any assumptions. Again, illustrate why your game is low risk whenever possible. And last - please, please, please do not go to Kickstarter. I've seen other comments suggesting that because tabletop and comics still do well on KS - which is absolutely true - this is no longer the case for games and has not been that way for many years. From a public image perspective, there have been so many horror stories and burned backers that it can be difficult to get funding in the games category specifically. You're also up against years of declining Kickstarter goals in which devs are attempting to look successful quickly to gain the more realistic goal number they need through stretch goals, but then you end up with a lot of projects that ask for too little and can't complete their project, then burned backers etc. rinse and repeat. You also have goals that are too high, and in that case there's some sort of odd psychology around the goal number where backers show up to your page, assume you'll never hit that goal, and instead of pledging they just walk away. The worst part of it is that whether your KS campaign hit its goal or not, you've just introduced even more risk for a publisher who likely doesn't want to take on the burden of fulfilling the promise you've made to your backers, or now has clear evidence that your campaign failed and thus is no longer worth investing in. Not to mention the amount of time (weeks if not months) you're diverting from working on your game towards working on your campaign. There are so many ways to shoot yourself in the foot with Kickstarter, and there's a reason why there are consultants out there who specifically work on setting up campaigns. Hope that helps anyone browsing through the comments. This isn't meant to discourage anybody, definitely the opposite - I hope it arms you with the information you need to be successful in an incredibly difficult market. Good luck out there! Edit: sorry, actually one last thing - Danny and Alex mentioned not knowing what 1.0 is for Stunt Derby. You should have a pretty clear picture of what 1.0 is in your pitch. Leave no questions unanswered. Open questions are risk etc. etc. you get it I'm a broken record now.

A Jeff Rosenstock t-shirt, and a Pup poster in the background. I wanna hang out with that guy.

That really does remind me of online dating 😂, great comparison. I agree that the overall quality of indie games have gone up. It might be time to reflect if Stunt Derby is going to really hold up with it's current visuals. I think the problem is just how unrealistic and sparse the environments are. Virtua Racing and Ridge Racer looked way better simply because there was an attention to detail to making the environment look realistic despite the few amount of polygons they could render in real-time in the early 90's. By contrast, the way your environments are set up right now are very much looking like test areas and not polished maps. "I don't know exactly what 1.0 is, we have to see what people like." I do not think this is a good approach at all. You need a solid vision for the game and it's direction. Player feedback is always going to be all over the place in both subjective opinion and quality. Those opinions should only help steer the finer details or additions to the core gameplay, not the entire direction of the game. Anyways good luck to y'all.

11:23 there's a typo in the pitch deck! :D "gamers" should be "games" - gotta say I've never seen a "powerpoint" that stunning btw.

Fascinating look behind the curtain. Cool stuff! More please 😊

I'd honestly like to see you try to run a kickstarter and do some videos about that process. It's still the place where lots of solo devs and micro teams go to fund their games.

16:12 That sounds like what looking for a job usually looks like. People often post job offers and not even fucking respond to an email... I was about to get a replacement co-worker and they had me train him, only to to string him along and then not hire him, choosing to keep the co-worker who lies and steals... O_o

I still support Kickstarter campaigns, but I self-limit pretty fierce when it comes to video games. Only willing to sit waiting on so many and I'd much prefer campaigns where I feel the names attached have something to prove (Bloodstained, for instance). Currently sitting on a Patapon-like. I also feel that habitual Kickstarter projects in video games is a red flag as it seems like something is broken in their ability to work well with others. Turnover is quicker for food, art prints, and coffee table books but they have quality control issues. Still can't tell if the tech gadget or household item is a scam, but they generally sell after the campaign just fine and often for less. Want to make someone's year, support a theater or comedy group on a project.

That game reminds me of ‘Skidmarks’ and ‘Super Skidmarks’ on the Amiga - defo check out that games way it looked like tracks cut up over time

I agree, I think some really strong art direction could really give the game a boost. But as you say, could prove expensive. Perhaps a consultation role where you establish an art direction and have them write up a style guide before producing art yourself or with others.

This was a very informative video, And this type of real journalism project has never been more relevant. As someone who played the hell out of Stunts back in the day, I am very interested in a game like this. However, I am definitely more interested in having single player modes, and a couple good easy to get started modes for even a couple of friends. I don't typically play much with random people. And like others have said, it's so hard to get peoples attention in a game to begin with, but to consistently maintain enough players for a multiplayer focused game, I don't think is the right move for this game. And I think we're all getting tired of live service games. There are only so many hours in the day. that said, I would definitely support a Kickstarter campaign to finish this game. I would love to play some racing and stunt tracks, make and share tracks with friends, and even have a track browser where people can publicly share and rate tracks, think something like Trackmania. But basically, I would love a modern version of Stunts that will actually run on a modern machine.

In my experience, nothing gets signed at GDC. Everybody gets crazed with the amount of meetings that they have. I personally just use it for networking, but if you NEED to get a deal signed that week, it's going to be very stressful.

Welcome to the club my man :) 5 years in & counting, some bux in, no more of it, still banging head on walls, we shall get there yeah ? :p

Was wondering how Stunt Derby was coming along the other day! Having an option to make modes would be neat, I'd try to recreate Mad Max's desert chase. As for Kickstarter, I feel that it has come around at this point, getting over that burnout of Kickstarter games that didn't happen, and I'm more selective about projects that I back. A downside of using Kickstarter to fund a game being that a publisher can see how your Kickstarter did if it fails (which it probably wouldn't for you).

Thanks for sharing your experience! You are doing all indie devs an invaluable deed. I wish you all the best for the future.

Ok, here's what you do. Put out a demo where one course is brutal, nearly impossible, and much too long to enjoy. Then give keys to streamers.

Going through this right now also (I walked past you at DICE actually but didn't have anything to say) and it's uh... alot. Like way harder than when I did it back in 2019 and 2021. All the publishers I talked to in the past have their numbers all over the place (mostly lower) and their release schedules being pushed all saying their slates are full. We're trying to get by with additional contract work in a tangential industry but it takes time away from our development. Honestly if I can fund it from the side stuff I probably would just do that but it's just been a grind. Hope you can find some some funding, your project is way too cool not to release.

Does the game have local multiplayer lan or split screen?

I use Kickstarter for books and tabletop roleplaying games, but I always feel a bit more nervous backing video games. A small video game in a fully playable state would look like a lot less of a risk though.

this process sounds like getting a job in tech/gaming nowadays. its a lot, and really tough on a person(s)

Danny, absolutely wonderful video. Totally related with it and appreciated the transparency and honesty. And yes, asymmetrical communication SUCKS

Kickstarter isn't dead, but it can be tough getting $200k there these days. But, unless you're afraid it will fail there, why not give it a go? Better than a subscription model for sure.

I suppose another problem for both developers and publishers is that almost nobody seems to publish sales info unless a game is _really_ successful. I imagine that that makes doing sales predictions all that much harder. You can basically only go by data on your own games, and if it's your debut you don't even have that.

Great video, but: the first few seconds of gameplay had my head shouting "Wait, is that multiplayer Stunts?!" Man, that's one of my all time favourite games! The ramps, the loops, the track editor, the camera perspectives,... You absolutely nailed it! And now I'll rewatch the video because I got way too distracted by childhood memories ;D

Ohhh I was so captivated by Sub Rosa the first instance I saw it, but I never bought it since the development didn't seem to go anywhere. I hope he finishes that game still.

CTF Mode would be sick! Great vid as always!

@iathhead

2 ай бұрын

🤢

@BuzzsRoom

2 ай бұрын

@@iathheadcool, thanks for the constructive feedback!

My personal experience with Kickstarter as it relates to video games has been like 95% positive, and that includes games that failed to meet their goal in those 5%. So, yeah, I still use it from time to time for Metroidvanias, visual novels and RPGs that appeal to me and look like they could realistically be made. No idea what the racing game market looks like, though.

Being part of a studio who was among those running around at DICE, we’ve definitely been feeling the same thing so best of luck at GDC!

17:25 this is very common, from my own experience and from others i have talked to.

This is super interesting to listen to, great insight into the whole process of getting your game published.

Projects especially in the early stages runs entirely on faith. You gotta believe in it, you gotta believe in it so hard that other believe in it because they see you believe in it. It’s a long long time before your game looks like a game

These vids are so useful to us small, new-comer indies. Thanks a bunch for a look behind the curtain, and good luck

The game looks cool. I like the retro car models. :D The TRACK EDITOR looks like a fantastic feature. Nice one! Good luck with it.

PUP flag + Jeff Rosenstock shirt = money

amazing video! thank you! A look into a world no ones sees, I love it

"I was loyal, like an idiot" sure is a lesson this industry teaches.

Crowdfuding is the obvious choice in your case. The only reason to not self-publish I can think of is to try the process of getting a pubisher as a research project.

I want to see this game without moon Physics. The drive and jumps seems soo sluggish

@ryoonio

2 ай бұрын

I agree that's the biggest thing putting me off. Probably easily solved by doubling or tripling gravity and adjusting everything else accordingly. And is there no temporary boost? that would be something I expect in this sort of game. also maybe vehicle damage...

Big thumbs up for Nick’s Jeff Rosenstock shirt

If you know Alex Austin's history, you'd not be surprised why publishers don't wanna work with him lmao

i feel like this game will look really good with a pixel shader and brighter colors with old school checker style diethering . something like ''Dirt Racer FX'' which means you can do low resolution pixel art for 2d assets. that is faster to get done (imo as a 2d artist myself)

Very interesting! Thanks for the update

If you're serious about the game, you should consider your costs and outgoings. For example, if you live in an expensive city, could you move somewhere cheaper so your money goes further and then you wouldn't need to make as much just to cover your basic needs.

@Strauss-

2 ай бұрын

you've just thrown the case WIDE OPEN

I suppose when you can get a risk-free 5% on a t-bill, your risky longshot is going to need a REALLY convincing pitch

7:16 😂 that Mario 3 Banner in the back

You should consider talking to the Second Wind folks when it comes to funding ideas and which platforms to use...they seem to have done a bang-up job of rising like a phoenix after the whole Escapist debacle.

nick with the rosenstock shirt and pup flag. hell yeah

25:30 there is just a problem, when he says what a 10 years old would like he is refering to his on childhood. I sure dont know if the 10 years old today using a smartphone and playing roblox would like the same thing.

Just from some of the clips in this vid, this game looks incredibly fun! Thanks for the honest, no-BS insight into publisher searching.

Did you guys write your own physics engine for Stunt Derby or did you use an off the shelf physics engine?

@Subcide

2 ай бұрын

Alex wrote it, physics is his thing

@venumspyder

2 ай бұрын

@@SubcideThanks for the response.

blurred text is very tempting, don't use the same font nearby if you're gonna blur it heheheheh. also devolver rules. love Alex, good to see him About

That Patapon successor used Kickstarter