You have to have a metering valve on both lines to get an accurate reading. Even when a metering valve is 100% open, it will never let the same amount through as a line with no valve attached

@sharpblad3

2 жыл бұрын

you mean the free hose and the valve maybe has different diameter, thats why?

@MannyAguilarJr

2 жыл бұрын

✌️✊ accurate ✌️✊

@specialservicesequipment393

Жыл бұрын

That's prob. Why the sell manifolds with three valves; water, soap, chlorine.

I enjoyed the video and learned much. However, the results were not surprising. I've worked as a controls engineer in chemical plants for several years. I have a few observations: - Ball valves are good Isolation Valves. They are made to close and seal tightly. In order to do this, They block of most flow at 25% open and the rest of the movement is to 'seal' off the flow. - Control valves (metering valves) are designed to give some measure of control of the flow at different rates. Keep in mind that even these control valves are only relatively accurate between 20% and 80%. - A well-designed proportional control valve (where the flow rate is proportional to the handle or control device) is complex and cost $$$. Even so the only way to be accurate is to have a flowmeter and a PID controller. - In this business how these valves are used, the Pentair or the GF valves work fine as long as their limitations are understood. As demonstrated at low flows both of these have poor performance. I would suggest for low SH concentrations or soap to an undersized valve. Perhaps a 3/8" so that the desired settings are in the mid-range of the valve. You could always use a 1/2 bypass valve for larger flow rates. - Daren

So pretty much just find the sweet spot on the $2 valve and save $148.

@user-jw4bh3tw2t

Жыл бұрын

Actually the other two valves will pay for themselves in chem cost and are better choices unless you ONLY work at 31/2%. If you only use 3 1/2% then yeah your golden.

@clumpkin1012

4 ай бұрын

Sounds like it. Can easy fine tune and mark the valve accordingly

@TrippyRiddimKid

Ай бұрын

2 ball valves inline on chem line. 3 settings total, both wide open, one open and one at 50%, both at 50%. Should get you the 6%, 3%, and 1.5% . Seems like all the proportioning you need is in $15 worth of valves.

@LegendaryLenny

26 күн бұрын

​@TrippyRiddimKid couldn't you also use the ball valves to bounce between 2 different sizes as well? Say a 1" line and a 1/2" or 3/4" line? Not sure which would be easier, that or just double stacking them like you mentioned.

People have mentioned the fact that two metering valves are needed to really compare since the opening in the valve is not the same as a straight through hose. But I haven't seen anyone comment on the incorrect basis in the math itself. If the valves worked exactly as we would want them to for this application, then having the same valve on a water line and an SH line both open 100%, would result in a 50/50 mix, or 6.25% SH if drawing from a 12.5% source. However, if you changed the SH valve to open 50%, that would not result in a 3.125% SH solution. You now have 100% water flow and 50% SH flow, resulting in a 2-1 water-SH mix, or 1/3 (33.3%) SH, which at 12.5% would be 4.7% SH. To get a 3.125% SH mix, you'd need the SH valve at 1/3 opening. This would result in 1/3 SH and 3/3 water, for a 3-1 water-SH mix or 1/4 total SH. This has to be the most common mistake I see being made in relation to this in this industry.

@jesperdamgaardskogly5390

3 ай бұрын

could not agree more, i have not seen one video of this beeing used. My math is the same as yours and if this is correct, evryone is using way more SH than they realise. I have just build an blend manifold and when my GF valve is on 50% opening its not even pulling 50%. I have to put it on 70% opening to have a 2:1 ratio. And 50% opening is actuly a 4:1 ratio...

@chris5619

3 ай бұрын

@jesperdamgaardskogly5390 Yup. I think most people have no idea the percent they're actually using. And the truth is that if you don't flow test your actual valves after they're actually set up in your system, you wouldn't know. It's not THAT big of a deal if the person at least realizes it's all estimated and I think a lot of people just learn their own system based on feel and are probably using an appropriate amount each time. But if you're just 100% going on the math most people spout off, you're using way more SH than you think (and then giving people way different %s when you answer their questions on Facebook, etc). I have seen those metering valve charts that some people sell to stick next to your valve that DO use the correct math. But I've never really seen anyone explain it correctly anywhere.

@jesperdamgaardskogly5390

3 ай бұрын

@@chris5619 Completly agree. As i said i did some testing yesterday with pretty shocking result, so i really have to test each opening and write down how much opening on the valve i need for wihch % SH. I have been batch mixing for a year so i am really confident in what % strengt i need for diffrent surface, thats why i really wish to know exacly how many % SH i shoot out insted of guessing

Seems like batch mix is guaranteed to have proper mix ratios

@treeamigo8447

8 ай бұрын

Yes, assuming that your bleach is actually the strength you think it is.

This might sound crazy but I wonder how a water spicket valve would work as a metering valve

This video was much needed, thank you for doing this!!! Plus this is a good way to calibrate ones setup before use!!!

Thanks man. This test is really useful. I think you are using an odd shape container for this test. The narrow top makes difficult to test. I recommend using a straight shape container.

Just found your channel and can’t wait to dive in! Thanks for this awesome video, you should do an update and include SESW’s new metering valve!

I've been planning on building my own proportional manifold system and you've convinced me that the GF Valve is the better choice.

the gf valve was upside down arrows on tbe dial shoulg point on water flow (down)

The 1.25 rate seems about right. Keep in mind that because the jar is tapered at the top the fluid ratios won’t look the same where it’s drawing water from where the unmetered jar is widest.

Cameron Beal hit the nail on the head. You need to bleed the air out of the system. And you need valves on both water and chemical lines

That's a cool setup. I was thinking of just doing a 2 way build like that.

Thanks for the video

When running the test, fully prime the lines, then fill back up the bottles, then begin test. When your first test on the GF valves wasnt fair because of all the air.

@tonydavis3420

3 жыл бұрын

Then that would mean none of them were "fair" as he tested all the same exact way huh?

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the feedback. I will work on getting that corrected on the next test :-)

Great man thanks

The only way you could get a better feel is to put the valve you are testing also on you "plain" water side and set at wide open..... you need to test the "system" not just one valve...... the orifice vs itself is the only way to see if they work as indicated. You can't run a 1 inch water line wide open vs a 3/4 line with an adjustable restriction..... you'll never get what you want out of it on a repeatable assembly level (the system build) or reputable results without testing with buckets n measures and then marking the position of the valve to reproduce that condition. Bottom line.....2 valves, identical..... one on each side. To see if they produce the claims they make.

Good info, but you need your control to have the same ball valve. You have no restrictions on it. That's why on your setup you see the valves on both water and sh.

Add the same valve to the first line. Not just an open line. It'll make a difference in the draw

The problem Which I am sure plenty have told you is you dont a metering valve on the water supply. Even Cody from SESW says you need a metering valve on all the sources even your soap to get a even baseline of flow and then you can meter correctly. That is why a regular ball valve can not be used on the water supply line to cut cost

Good content. Subscribed

The test should have had each line draw from opposite sides of the tee, and both lines being drawn through equal diameter ball valves so the suction line could be equidistant from each bottle. Two cylindrical buckets would have given a more accurate guesstimation of the draw. Those bottles are irregular shaped at the top. Is there still a very informative video

Such a useful video on the day my system failed. I find my bleach Pentail (two years old) is used from .5 to 1.5. Anything else is just wide open it seems.

What is that quick connect on the bottom called? Do you have that so you can Down stream and run your soft wash system through the manifold?

Cheap ball valve was not at 25%, it was about 10% open.

Interesting video. I thought the GF would have been more accurate from the cost difference and most people upgrading to them. I am going to build one with Pentair valves and see how I like it.

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

Me too! I kinda feel got lol. But it is more accurate and when we are talking about wasting SH over hundreds of houses that can add up so I think a MORE accurate solution is better than one that is not accurate at all. Good luck with the Pentair. They definitely work in most cases.

@jonboysprowash7845

3 жыл бұрын

@@PowerCleanPS thanks I will be building soon.

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

@@jonboysprowash7845 I also sell units. I can build a 3 port manifold for you for $499.99

Very interested. I would have 2 different batches, one for roofing and a 2nd one for vinyl siding and label it it’s mixture rate

It gets even more tricky with different viscosity liquids

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely. The specific gravity of SH is 1.2 so it’s 20% heavier than water.

Really like the effort you put into this. For me I feel that a 15 second test on each valve is too little time to really see consistency. I would suggest a 5 gallon bucket because there were times where it was still priming on one test, while others prime instantly. Plus I would place markings on the container of actual volume used because the curve on the container is tough to visualize. Plus with the marking on the container, that would confirm percentage of draw. Just the things I would adjust if you retest this. Great job and discussion. Thank you.

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think a 5 Gallon test would definitely be better. I need to pick up a 15 Gallon carboy for them to funnel into though. And yes, I will do markings next time. I think for an impromptu, light experiment it really showed the draw visually rather than imperically. I will work to get that better. Thank you

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the size of the opening of the valve compared to the side without the valve would have something to do with it.

Weight the 2 container before and after and you will get a more accurate read as well as putting the same valve on the pump.

well im stuck using ball valves and one check just before pump and eyeball cannot afford the 500 for the blend manifold ...yet first job tomorrow

What about if you set 2 valves on the same lane and open each half way

To be accurate on what it should pull you need to use a metering valve on both sides. Ball valve performed accurately at %50 because it has a bigger flow point like the barb fitting does. The metering valves have restrictions even when wide open. You won't get true dial readings unless you use same valve on the side you are just running a hose and barb. Make a new vid doing what I recommend. You'll get the best results.

How many gallons of solution is used for a 2000 square foot homes roof and siding?

I wonder if you opened the valve all the way open if they would have equally pulled the same amount. I'm guessing no.

What about using gate valves?

Would like to see this test with Xjet proportioners. 👀

@PowerCleanPS

2 жыл бұрын

Oh yea. Possibly

Does the water valve and and the bleach valve have to be the same size? I have the GF 1/2" metering valve on my manifold, with 1" water. All I can get out of my chem tank with valve fully open is about 1 gallon of chem per 10 gallons of water. I checked and rechecked for leaks still no change in chem pull.

@riverwarts9084

11 ай бұрын

Do you have a GF valve on your water too or is it wide open? You wanna meter even your water flow otherwise it's always gonna pull mostly water. Like with a simple pentair valve manifold, you have a valve on all three lines: SH, Surfactant/soap and water. If you had your water meter valve wide open and SH wide open using a 12.5% it would be metered down to a 50/50 mix or 6ish% SH ration an 50% water. In my experience keeping your valves the same size keeps your ratios most accurate. Having different sized metering valves is gonna throw off those proportions for sure.

@Scott.Farkus

11 ай бұрын

@@riverwarts9084 I changed my chem valve to a 1" Precision Flow valve, now it works very well. The 1" water line only has a check valve on it. If I open the Precision Flow valve 100% it draws more chemical than water, it'll actually drain the chem tank with very little water being pulled. The 1. setting pulls pretty close to 1%

@riverwarts9084

11 ай бұрын

@@Scott.Farkus damn! Yea 1" is LARGE lol but if you need to keep the water side 1" for proper flow to your pump then this is the way! Don't wanna cut it down to 1/2" or whatever and up starving/cavitating the pump.

@Scott.Farkus

11 ай бұрын

@@riverwarts9084 The water intake has always been 1" so no issues getting enough water. There's 2 things that really changed what I'm drawing from the chem tank. 1. Going to 1" metering valve 2. The Precision Flow valve has the V cut all the way through the ball(gets way more flow), not just a V groove like the GF valves have. I noticed right away the GF valve didn't start flowing until it was set to around 25, but the PF valve begins to flow anywhere above zero. A 1/2" PF valve likely would have worked much better than a 1/2" GF valve, because of the difference in how the ball is designed.

Yeah I bought a pentair premade blend manifold second hand and even when the valves are shut completely off it still pulls quite a bit of chemical through. Quite useless actually. I could probably measure the pH of the bleach solution that it is creating to determine the strength but I think am just going to buy a premade one with gf valves. I appreciate this test

@jefferymeasles4193

2 жыл бұрын

Do you think it could've been because you bought a second hand? Who knows how much sh had been through it

@brennenfarrell5406

2 жыл бұрын

@@jefferymeasles4193 second hand but it was brand new never used

The GF valves are 1/4 open when the handle is straight up and down.

One big flaw with your test, You need to have a pent-air valve on the water as well. Those valves cause some restriction even when wide open, so have your water mainlined like that is allowing more flow the you would get even with the SH valve wide open thus your ratios are off. That's why pro manifolds have three valves (water/soap/SH) even though 99.8% of the time your going to have the water valve wide open for most applications.

Do the same test when downstreaming it will be different 🤔

Okay so why not just have a 3 way valve with one of thr barbs half the size of the water and just run it that way right? Wouldent thag work. You could run like 3 different barb sizes. One for 50% one for 25% and one for 12.5% mix rafe which would give you options of 6% 3%, 1.5%

IQ solution Testing Lab👍🏻

is it just me or is the gf valve upside down?

So downstream for your 1.5%, and use valves for 3% and higher.

The entire test is void. You need to have a metering valve on both fluids. It would be interesting to see the results with both metered.

2 cheap $2 ball valves in series - each gives 50% functionality -Together = cheap 100% functionality possibly, for only $4?

Not an accurate reading on any of them because you’re sucking from one end. Doing that will drain the nearest hose (the water hose) towards the pump faster. Anything after (the water hose) will be wrong. Your SH line, water line and soap line all need to blend at the same exact spot. That’s why they call it a blend manifold.

@georgeyost7011

2 жыл бұрын

agreed not a fair test

This test is not accurate because you have one going through the hose with no valve, this line will pull more fluid because the friction loss is less than going through a valve

LMAO

you left out that the 2 cheap valves don't last, i have been running the same gf valves for 3 years, those cheap valves don't last a year of continuous use.

@velvetypotato711

2 жыл бұрын

but you could buy 300 ball valves for less than a gf rig

@savagestyle124

2 жыл бұрын

@@velvetypotato711 your leaving out the time and lost work having to constantly repair, I’ve been running the same gf manifold for 4 years, only have to reseal the connections periodically, no cracked or failed valves, so your right, you will buy 300 cheap ass valves before I ever have to replace mine.

Your testing is flawed from the start. Need equal metering valves to create the same internal "resistance" of the flow

You keep saying 1/8th you mean 1/4.

@PowerCleanPS

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah lol

This test is not accurate you need to use same metering valves on both sides

Pentar 😂 pent-air

150.00 for valve and the user cannot even do simple proportion mix math . DON'T waist your money . Soft wash ain't rocket science .

You literally don’t have another valve on the other line so please do a real test and get the results with the same valves connected to two different lines. One all the way open and another to whatever setting you need. This video will misinform people that are trying to get into softwashing