Happy New Year! This video is NOT about me telling you what colour to paint your models... it’s about what paints to think about IF you’re interested in historical accuracy. Hope you find it interesting and informative. 😀

Great presentation, thank you for taking the time Bruce

I really like the structured approach to this - a very interesting watch with lots of food for thought. Thanks for taking the time to make it.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much. I’m glad you found it interesting. It did take a lot of time, but I’ve been very happy to see that it has stimulated a lot of conversation.

Wow, great video! Very informative with useful descriptions of how you got to your results. Thanks for posting.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Michael. Glad you liked it!

Hi Bruce, I enjoyed your video it was very informative. I only have one item to point out, scale color for any model is going to be lighter then a full sized item. The further an item is moved away the lighter it becomes. Therefore a 1/35 scale vehicle would be a lighter shade then the original color.

Excellent review. Thanks for doing this. I'll be sharing it far and wide...

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Rob, glad you found it useful. I’ll admit I was a little nervous putting this out there, given the huge amounts of misinformation flying around about wartime German colours.

Been waiting for this, thanks Bruce 👍

Just discovered your channel. Absolutely fantastic ! Like yourself , I strive for historical accuracy in my work , and can’t tell you enough how much I appreciate a video like this. Well done !!

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much. Glad you found the video helpful. I don’t put out as many videos as I want to, but I try to present historical info as accurately as possible.

@smash1927

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob and a fellow Canadian to boot!👍

Outstanding video! Well researched. Would love to see additional video on similar subjects.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much I’m hoping to do more videos of this sort... I just need to acquire more original painted pieces. 😀

Completely fascinating presentation - thanks for all the hard work and dedication that went into this - very much appreciated 😎👍

@brucethemodelnoob

2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. Glad you found it useful. 😀

Just a super job Sir.enjoyed it. this subject has always been a hot spot.not just the one color but all of them in this time frame. They never think its the well known color pictures of the time thats at fault.anyway you did an awesome job breaking it down.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad your found it informative. 😀

Ive been waiting for this! Awesome!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Nicholas! Glad you enjoyed it.

Superb video Bruce!!!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you liked it. 😀

I never believed any of those German paint myths. My science background made me skeptical of comments I would read online promoting them so I am glad you are explaining why they are wrong in this video. I've been using Tamiya for my gray, which didn't score very high but I end up darkening it with filters. I have picked up some MMP but have not tried it yet. Too cold here to paint but I am working on a batch of Panzer IIIs that will be ready by the time it is warmer and I look forward to seeing if it indeed is a 7. Considering ordering the AK 11025 as well.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you found the video useful! Tamiya would definitely need a filter to add a little bit of hue... it’s essentially neutral. Just don’t use one of those “Blue for German Grey” filters. 😉😂

Helpfull info, thank you very much. Keep up good work.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.

Excellent material based on facts and logic. Very helpful, Thanks!

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Glad to hear you found it useful. 😀

Great video, really useful. I’ve been thinking about this myself and trialing different paints. I was using the blue tones in the period colour pictures but you make a good point about that. I had convinced myself it was really similar to RLM 66 but you’re explanation shows that it is quite a different colour and stands alone. 👍

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you found it useful. The more I think about it the more I think they may have used the same pigments as Feldgrau, just with black pigment added and maybe in slightly different proportions.

@ChampionScaleModelling

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob interesting idea that! Just gone and bought the MRP grey, I’m going to give their other colours a look too. Use them all the time for aircraft but never looked at their AFV range. Thanks again 👍

perfect video nice work buddy !! you're a legend !! highly appreciate

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Glad you found it useful! 😀

Great comparisons Bruce and great to hear your knowledge on the subject, it was an interesting watch 👍........I'm not too stuck on historical accuracy and personally I like to use Revell Aqua Color Panzergrau......it would have been great to have seen how it faired but maybe next time 😉

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ian. Yeah, I forgot about Revell. Sorry. ☹️ I’ll keep an eye out for some next time I’m doing an online paint order. If I can find some I’ll publish an update video.

@CWModelling

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob Don't sweat over it tho, lol.......to add to your conversation with Hamilkar, I work in Architecture and am also a fairly amateur photographer so i am very used to the colour inaccuracies that cameras, TV's or computer monitors bring to the table, so it was great to hear your 'eyes on' comparisons......but I must note that even two people looking at the same colour swatch can have different opinions, lol.....it would be so much simpler if colour was a recipe with simple ingredients and viewed using the same equipment, lol

Excellent review Bruce! I found the background on the RAL color system very interesting and appreciated your de-bunking of many of the commonly held beliefs. Nothing about what you said should throw people into fits, it was well researched and presented. Still, nothing with colors is ever absolute and modelers will always find an excuse to push the limits. I mean, look at our hobby, already it is highly 'stylized'. And, I don't really have an issue with that, it is their model and they can finish it however they want. Ultimately, I am the only one who's approval of my models really counts! 👍

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Jerry, glad you found it interesting. I completely agree that a modeller can finish their model any way they like... as long as they don’t try to say that it’s historically accurate if it’s clearly not.

Great informative video!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks John! Glad you found it useful. 😀

Interesting test. Thanks for sharing

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Glad you liked it!

Great and very usefull video mate! I'd love one on Dunkelgelb RAL 7028 as well!!!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you found it helpful. Dunkelgelb is a bit more challenging, because it switched to a different colour in 1944. I hope to be able to do more of these in the future. 😀

another thing to remember is scale. The 'standard' is that the smaller the scale the lighter you paint your model. So, you might like to go with a 'lower graded' paint that 'failed' because it wasslightly lighter if you're doing 1/285 or 1/300 micro armour, somthing slightly darker but still 'too light' for 1/72, and the 8's and 9's for the 1/48 or 1/32. Just a thought.

Excellent breakdown of the colours Bruce! I was looking forward to this video. Sad to see Tamiya XF-63 not doing well but that's why I mix my own colour from Tamiya's white and nato black and a hint of medium blue. Mission Models and Mr Paint are some brands I haven't yet tried but everyone seems to praise their colour accuracy and ease of spraying. I'll have to look into these a bit more seriously in the future. I'm curious if your colours will shift once you spray matte varnishes over them. In my experience that will tend to darken my Tamiya paints...for example my StuIG 33B was very light grey-blue after painting, but in the end it is very dark and quite accurate. For this reason I have to start lighter, almost like the Lifecolor example you showed, to counteract the darkening from washes and matte varnishes.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Evan. Hopefully Tamiya is going to release a new Grey in the future, given their recent DAK paint releases. I’ve been really impressed with MRP and Mr Color. Mission was pretty good too, but Im not sure I can see myself regularly airbrushing an acrylic.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe try Feldgrau instead of medium blue to get that hint of green?

What an excellent piece of work, so well laid out and articulated! I feel you have shed light on this "controversial" subject in a very dispassionate, scientific, and concise way - now we know!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Mauricio. I spent a year or so just thinking about how to present the information... glad you enjoyed it!

Thanks for all the hard work Bruce.This was very helpful.At this time (Jan 24 ) MRP Tank Grey is nowhere to be found in the USA.. but I have some 3rd GEN on the way.

Very interesting. Thanks for the heads up on this. I'll stick with my Mission Models as I have a lot of their paint. Thanks

A very interesting video and points of view on Panzer colours.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Hope you found it useful.

@SteveJonesScaleModellingSite

3 жыл бұрын

Very useful. Many thanks

I usually make my own dunkelgrau. And it saves me abit of money. This video is awesome! Thank you for the guide

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

There several people I know who make their own. I’ll be doing a video in the future on mixing your own accurate Dunkelgrau using Tamiya paints.

@Raven.flight

2 жыл бұрын

Me too, and I use airbrush inks/paints just in primaries and mix until I get it just right. The war museum get a bit annoying when I put my painted swatches up against the tanks though. Heartless bastards :D

@ollep9142

Жыл бұрын

@@Raven.flight But does the museum use the correct colour for their vehicles? "Arsenalen" in Sweden are open with their use of "best guess" colours for their older vehicles.

fantastic stuff, thank you!

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you liked it. 😀

Awesome videos, very helpful...Nice to meet another guy scale modelling!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it. Thanks! Nice to meet you too.

Wonderfully informative and I’ll be trying the MRP-034 Tank Grey for two kits I’ll be working on. I did hit subscribe to your channel (Panzermeister 36 had mentioned your channel). I have you ever tested Sand color used on German armored vehicles? Again excellent video thank you

@brucethemodelnoob

6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. I’ve played around with some of the different sand camo colours. AK Real Colors does a really good version of RAL 8000 and RAL 7027 (the base colours for the first and second Tropen schemes respectively). As there were two different official versions of RAL 7027 and a lot of variation based on how the pigment was mixed Dunkelgelb is a bit more challenging. I own a couple of original pieces, and may try a video in the future.

Thanks for the video.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it! 😃

Thanks for all the work - now need one for Dunkelgelb, Rotbraun and Olivgrüns

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

I have one dunkelgelb piece but as there was some variation in the colour over the last few years of the war I need to acquire some more. I need a few generous Patrons to help me out. Good original colour parts are hard to find, and not cheap. 😂

@seanmalloy7249

Жыл бұрын

You're going to have a problem with at least the latter two if you're depicting a vehicle that wasn't camo painted in the factory. When the order making the standard base color dunkelgelb was issued, vehicles were repainted in depot, which usually meant that the base dunkelgelb was the same whether it was depot repainted or painted in the factory. The Rotbraun and Olivgrun, however, was issued to units as cans of pigment along with a number of spray guns for each unit; the pigment was to be mixed with gasoline and sprayed on the vehicles. Shortages of gasoline could result in the pigments being thinned with other substances, and thinned to different degrees, and could be applied with other tools than the issued spray guns. As a result, the applied Rotbraun could appear as any shade from a brick red to a chocolate brown, and the Olivgrun from pea green to a blackish green. Both colors, when applied at the factories, adhered rigidly to the color standard, and you could do a color check based on that, but the field application varied so much that you can't say that a particular shade of either is right or wrong -- but if you're going to go that way, you need to be sure that you pick a time period when the vehicle you're depicting would have been issued or repainted in the base dunkelgelb and had the other two colors applied in the field.

@markholmphotography

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob As much as I find German AFVs interesting - it never ceases to amaze me how they kept rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Seriously changing the shade of a color when you’re loosing the war - talk about way too much useless bureaucracy.

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

@@markholmphotography some of the changes made operational sense. Late in the war when the Allies had air superiority over Germany they ordered that all armoured vehicles to be transported by rail had to have more Olivgrun than Dunkelgelb to make them harder to spot from the air.

Good stuff, loads of useful info. I have to say, I was waiting to see how Gunze H401 Dark Grey (Schwarzgrau) scored and it's not there!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you found it useful. I have several suggestions for other colours that I didn’t look at... maybe a sequel?

Hey Bruce Who da thought a video about a shade of grey would retain my attention for forty minutes, well done! I just recently returned to modelling after 50 years and bought a couple of cheap kits- Tamiya a panzer 2 & a kettenkrad. Went to the hardware store to bodge together some basic tools, solvents etc and a couple of spray cans caught my eye to get started, Rust-oleum Colourmate series, to match colorbond products ie: hardcore outside paint Deep Ocean for Panzer Grey & Cottage green for the german dark green I thought I was just Fu**ing around but the Deep Ocean turned out very authentic looking and has an interesting sheen that can be rubbed around but not shiny if that makes sense, but you can't oil pin wash over it without a sealer (still learning) but otherwise I was amazed, just a total fluke, I would be very interested in your opinion of this products shade, pertaining to your test. (I am in Australia so not sure if you have the same colours) still new to You Tube so not sure how to follow up but I'll figure it out. again great video! thanks mate KEN

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Hi Ken. Glad you enjoyed the video, and thanks for the comments. I hadn’t considered Rustoleum for the paint test… there are so darn many model pint brands already. 😂 I picked up another half-dozen model paint colours that I missed the first time. I’ll keep an eye out for deep ocean. Not sure if we can get it here in Canada. 🤔 Cheers!

Happy new year. It's very interesting video. All modelers would thought about what's the real color ? Thanks for sharing.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it. Happy New Year!

Great video.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Sir!

Interesting vid!

@brucethemodelnoob

9 ай бұрын

Thanks!

Step one... "How do we describe colour?" WOAH WOAH WOAH!, step zero, 'How do we spell color?' All joking aside, amazing video!!!

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha ha… thanks.

Fantastic video Bruce, watched it all the way through, nodding along the way. I have long contended that RAL 7021 has nearly equal parts GREEN and BLUE, and whenever I see a beautifully rendered Panzer grey model, the ones with the green hue always look better to me (both historically and with any artistic bent). I have used MRP Tank Grey, and again I agree with you its the best one out of the jar for RAL 7021, but is a tad light so I like to add a few drops of MRP NATO Black (which is equal green/blue hue) to both get the hue just right and the value bang on for the base colour. But that's for an exact historical colour match, not an artistic interpretation (which is anything you want!)

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, you could absolutely darken MRP ever so slightly, but it was almost bang-on with my original painted piece. Just a tiny bit light.

@beckersmodels

3 жыл бұрын

I found my jar of MRP Tank Grey to my eyes was a little light - must be that harsh sunshine we have Down Under, since we all live three meters from the sun! Cheers, Chris

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@beckersmodels the older glass bottles or the new plastic bottle? Mine was the plastic bottle...

@beckersmodels

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob yep its the older glass one. I've only got a few of the plastic bottle in my paint stock.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@beckersmodels maybe they changed recipes with the switch to the new bottle? The other thing is this colour shifts slightly in direct sunlight vs. obscured daylight (cloudy day). And a difference in the surface finish (Matt vs. Semi-gloss) will change the look. Applying a semigloss/eggshell (like the real thing) will darken it slightly.

“What colour is decent for my StuG?” 40 minutes later. Great video very informative and solid information for anyone looking to be more accurate.

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Robbie. Glad you found it informative. 😀 So… what colour is your StuG going to be?

@TheModelGuy

2 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob most likely Dunkelgelb now haha. It's the Stug III G from Takom as the Blitz offering. Whatever colour I use will be the base for a white wash. I'd like to do the 7021 but I think that version stug is too late

Great video, thanks for putting this together. Also is there anyway you could possibly do one of these videos for US Olive Drab (the other color that no one can agree on)

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Olive Drab would be a great subject for a similar video, although it’s not my area of study and I don’t have any original wartime samples (although I imagine it would be relatively easy to find?).

Bruce, have you used/seen/tested Tamiya XF-85 Rubber Black? I picked some up and compared it along the old stalwart XF-63 and it appears to be more in line with RAL 7021. It least eyeballing it does.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Interesting... had never thought of comparing that colour. I use it for, well... rubber all the time. 🤔

Thanks. Great work. I knew a number of ww2 vets who were into Squadron AC colors from the 30s. ( one a professional photographer of the old school) Their discussions (and my photography classes) got me into realizing how much B&W and Color photos of the period can greatly alter the look of colors. B&W film ( and Photo paper) actually trys to give an overall gray tone to the finished photo meaning the same item can look dark in one photo and light in another photo taken at the same time especially from a different light angle. . It is way more complicated and not intuitive. So thinking a dark photo is dark or a light photo is light in its actual color is usually not the case. This is not including the influence of different films and speeds. I only mention this as few people are aware of this now a days photography has changed . It really is not a simple thing to use a photo as proof of a color. I am no expert but I know B&W photos can be very deceiving .

@brucethemodelnoob

5 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Yes, it’s sometimes hard to convince people that just because something looks light or dark in a photo that the real object wasn’t necessarily the same. 😀

Happy New Year.. recently back into the hobby so painting by brush, any great tips using until sprayer is purchased if at all.. great info for color usage..

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Happy New Year! Unfortunately I only brush paint for figures and small details like tools on the tanks. Maybe check KZread... there must be some brush-painting videos out there?

@edhorst7212

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks and I did run across someone whom paints by brush. Problem is the language barrier of not understanding Russian. So it was a basic follow along with trying to figure out with missing any tips, ha

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@edhorst7212 what type of paint are you using? Acrylic? Enamels?

Man i was waiting for this to unfold :) First of all, we should take into account that looking at colors on any kind of screen, whether it is TV or monitor, affects it all a bit. I mean not drastically, but more than people think. At the place where i work we often get complaints in from our customers, because the special kind of decorative furniture they ordered from us did not have the color as they thought it would. They had only seen it on our website or in a cataloge, which do not represent the true color of the thing as one would think. We made some tests at work and turned out that the differences can be quite astonishing, depending on the device used. So seeing color references in some online places might not be 100% reliable, same goes for print media. The trend of using a fairly light grey, almost bluish color might have the following reason: On a model that is painted in a fairly light color all the fancy weathering techniques stand out better. That might be also one of the reasons why we tend to see more dunkelgelb models than grey ones, because i don´t think it is all down to the subject matter alone, meaning that more people could prefer building a Panther tank instead of a Panzer II or Panzer IV of the early types. The test you conducted here was very interesting, a good and fair comparison. However, isn´t there some sort of scale effect going on? When you paint a small object with the same color as a big object, the small one looks much darker anyway? Can´t remember the term for it, but i guess that is a thing and might affect the colors you rated being a bit on the light side? At least that might be something some of those paint brands take into account when developing their paints...but surely they are not using the same standards in their production as ZE GERMANS at that time. It would be funny though! I have found my panzer grey recipe, i am a bit sad that my loved Revell Aquas did not enter this test. I am using their Matt 78 "Panzergrau" on top of a Matt 9 "anthracite" basecoat" and highlighting some panels of the model with some Matt 79 "blue grey" to spice things up a bit. To me that looks good, especially when some weathering is added on top of it. I used that on my latest StuG III A and the Simca 5 for example.

@Panzermeister36

3 жыл бұрын

Well as I have told you, it is pretty much impossible to get Revell Aqua paints in Canada :)

@HamilkarBarkasScaleModelling

3 жыл бұрын

Depressing! Haven´t i sent you some? Wanna try it? Or send it over to Bruce maybe :D

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Absolutely! Displays (and digital imagery in general) are not reliable at all. I started out trying to use photographs of each paint swatch on the box, but the digital camera couldn’t capture the colour of both objects consistently. That’s why I resorted to simulating each colour using Screen colours. Not ideal, but the only way to get the point across.

@HamilkarBarkasScaleModelling

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob What you did here to display the colors was the best choice, because you explained the differences you spotted with your eyes and i think that evaluation is better than using photos of those test plates, which are just not reading correctly as you pointed out. The colors you showed instead give us at least a feeling what is wrong or right with them, afterall that is just a visual representation of your test results. Overall, excellent!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I’m not sure I’m a believer in “scale effect.” Yes, things looks paler and bluer from a long distance (think of how light far background objects look in a landscape painting or photo). There’s a name for that effect that I can’t remember (Adam Mann told me once, but I forget). I think that only really works over very long distances, not the scale distances we’d be viewing a tank at in 1/35 scale.

28:50 Ammo's paints are notorious for beading on certain surfaces. The remedy I've heard is to put a tiny drop of Mr Color thinner (yes cellulose thinner!) into the cup before spraying and this apparently breaks the surface tension. So not a surprise to hear you had this problem. I moved to MRP from Vallejo last year and I'm so glad I did. It airbrushes beautifully and, yeah you don't get as much as if you thinned it yourself, but the coverage and pigmentation is second-to-none. Only real problem is it smells and needs a spray booth.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip. I haven’t used them before, so hadn’t run into that issue.

Nice overview. How do you consider the scale effect in relation to this topic? Would you lighten the color to a certain percentage?

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Bas. Glad you liked it. I’m not 100% convinced that scale colour is actually a thing. Yes, over very long distances (kilometres away), objects far away look desaturated, but at the scale distances we’re talking about at 1/35 scale I don’t think there’s a real difference. A 1/35 scale tank viewed at 6 feet away should look like a real tank viewed at 210 feet (70 yards) away. I don’t believe there’s a noticeable difference in colour of a real object at this relatively short distance. What I think we see in a lot of photos of tanks that look faded is just dust or exposure issues in the photograph.

This is a bit late probably, but holy heck, the Vallejo paint looks like you were painting the model black. I'm highly surprised it was made to look LIGHTER than the real paint.

Great information. But.... by the time I wash, highlight and weather the base coat, it almost doesn't matter what color it was. After years of bad results, I now want to start out with a pretty light base and wash it darker. So I need a tough undercoat. The Tamiya XF63 works great for that. Gunze H75 is also good. Neither is very close to actual RAL7021 however.

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

It’s your model, so whatever you want to achieve is great. I figure if everyone has accurate information they can make a deliberate decision to go for accuracy or not, depending on their individual artistic vision.

Great job. Could you do the same with dunkelgelb?

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Dunkelgelb is a Little more challenging, as it changed during the war. I have a couple of original pieces, and am hoping to get some more so I can do a video in the future. 😀

Nicely done. What's next? Dunkelgelb or 4BO green? :-)

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I’d love to do the German Tropen paint schemes. I have a piece that’s painted in RAL 8020, but none of the other colours. Hopefully someday. 🤞

Very informative! If you are doing a part two, you should consider H401 Schwarzgrau from Gunze stating on the label it is for German Panzer and Hataka Orange line C040 RLM66. I think, Hatakas RLM66 is too dark for being RLM66, but probably good for RAL7021, maybe a bit blue, but very dark.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. I already have a handful of other colours that have been suggested for a sequel. 😀

Forgetting to add that a second video of other colors would be helpful as well

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I’ve had several folks suggesting other colours, so a sequel may be coming. 😀

good video , thank you..have you tried to make any special mixes with Tamaiya to make it more accurate ? I just have a lot of Tamiya stock paints .thanx

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Funny you should mention custom Tamiya mixes. I’m working on exactly that this weekend for a kit I’m building. Once I have a mix I’m happy with I’ll do a video…

@alandewey6934

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob cool ,thanx !

great video BUT.... maybe you could make a try with different undercoats? like under a white, black, red oxyde or even very dark brown... could be useful because a lot of modellers (including myself) will use some sort of pre-shading or undercoat... Thanks a lot for your effort and very usefull videos :)

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I did prime the sample strips in black, white, and red oxide (Tamiya rattle can), but I ended up applying an opaque coat of each grey paint, so the undercoat didn’t really affect the final colour. You certainly could use preshading, black basing, or other techniques to alter the final result. I’m doing.a build right now where I’ll be using black basing.

Have you done this with US olive drab for WWII vehicles?

Yes mix Tamiya or any easy to get paints. I hope you do the Yellow brown base coat .

I use vallejos Dunkelgrau and go over the dark base coat with a field grey to give it that grey green hue you see alot of! Like your box there on the left corner you see it fading to a kinda field green there! Research panzer 1 There's one online non restored faded a green hue so I use that reference along with panzer ARCHEOLOGY videos of surviving panzer 4s the grey fade green as seen on your box in one corner also

Thanks for this, Bruce. Great video, great research, and valuable (even though I don't consider myself a died-in-the wool 'rivet counter') Your description of the quality of German paint, seems to contradict some of the common comments I've heard about chipping. Things like: 'US Tanks didn't suffer so much from chipping as did German vehicles, because of superior American paints.' Your thoughts on that? Ralph

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ralph. Glad you enjoyed it. I think US paint was pretty durable, and when you see wear and tear it’s usually abrasion rather than chipping (there’s a well-known series of photos of a British tanker with his Sherman and you can see the paint is burnished to a darker colour rather than chipped). All of that said, US paint isn’t my area of study, so I’m not confident making any definitive claims.

@brandonbrockwell4997

2 жыл бұрын

US paint by itself isn’t any more or less durable. You just don’t see any weathering (or camouflage) that often because any time there was a lull in the fighting they’d be getting a fresh coat of olive drab, rather than german vehicles sometimes wearing the same coat for a while. I also remember vaguely reading something about them having a clear coat applied at the factories but I’d have to dig into that again to confirm or deny.

There is a German Gray in Tamiya's Lacquer Paint series. It's LP-27. It's available since may be two years. I like it a lot. It's not comparable to the acrylic. I wish you would have included that one in your investigation!

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I haven’t tried Tamiya’s lacquer paints yet, but I’m hoping to at some point. I’ve already had a few other folks mention brands I didn’t cover. Sounds like an opportunity for a follow-up video?

@beckersmodels

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob and you could try my old Panzer Grey mix = 50/50 Tamiya XF63 German Grey and Tamiya XF-69 NATO Black. I'd still use this if MRP wasnt around (and variations thereof, thinned with X-20A, are excellent for doing distressed hairspray techniques)

Someone at a hobby shop close to where I live and that I frequent a lot said that the scale of a kit can cause the shade of color to look different to the eye once on the kit like the smaller the scale the darker it looks I think? Could be the other way around but yeah it may look darker or lighter depending on the scale like take the ak panzer grey paint a1:35 scale panzer iv than paint a 1:48 or 1:72 scale of the same vehicle and the shades will vary

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

You’re referring to what is called “scale effect” in the modelling world. There is no agreement on whether or not it is something that should be replicated on a model. In the real world things look lighter and slightly more blue at long distances - an effect called aerial diffusion (think about looking at a mountain or another feature many miles away - it looks pale and the colour isn’t as intense). The debate is whether or not that same effect is relevant at modelling scales. Looking at a 1:35 model at three feet is the same as looking at the real object at about 100 feet away, and looking at a 1:72 model at three feet is the same as looking at the real object at a little over 200 feet. These scale distances are much too short for aerial diffusion to be a factor in the real world. I think what most people are thinking of is simply the fact that military vehicles look much lighter because of layers of dust that quickly accumulate, making the colour look lighter. I’ve been thinking of doing a video on “scale effect” perhaps...

I really appreciate your effort to find which German gray model paint matches your full scale ww2 German box, however we are building scale models that are a fraction of the size of the real item. They therefor are subject to the scale color rule that states; the frighter away an object is the lighter the color appears. A 1/35 scale tank will be much lighter color then a

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Even if scale colour is a thing, then the only difference would be in the value (brightness) of the colour. The colour itself (hue) would still be the same.

Modeol Master "Dunkelblaugrau" is for german pre-War electric Locomotives.

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

Why didn't you use Vallejo 70.603 Dunkelgrau RAL 7021? Also available as a spray can. I bet it would score an 8.

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Someone else caught that too. I’ve picked up a bottle of that, and several other colours that I didn’t cover in the video and I’m working on a follow-up video. 😃

@gilwilner7623

2 жыл бұрын

You may want to check Vallejo Model color 70.862 as well, good imho as a RAL 7021. Excellent video there

i like to paint my tanks in pretty pink with blue sparkles

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

Whatever works for you. 😀

Good video! But what about US WW2 olive drab? ;p

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it. Unfortunately olive drab is nowhere near my area of study. 😀

Should I lighten the color for small models?

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Objects really far away do appear lighter, but at 1/35 scale the scale distance might not make a difference. Dust and dirt definitely lighten things up though. I’ve been thinking about doing a video to test whether or not “scale effect” is really a thing. 🤔

many many many thansk for Panzer grau....I will use it for my 1/35 models... ;) ! light colour is made by dust ... I agree ;)

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

You’re welcome. Glad you enjoyed it!

@nonmultisedmulta

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob what about 50 shades of Dunkel Gelb ? :)

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

@@nonmultisedmulta Dunkelgelb is a whole other beast lol. Two different official colours, plus potential variability in mixing (units using it had to lighten the raw pigment paste with white) make it tricky. I have a couple of original pieces, but I’d want to pick up a few more to make sure I have a representative sample.

Since the color is almost black,why not paint entire model black and light coat of MM 7021 for example?I say because I have a bottle of MM 7021,forgot about it till I watched this video.Thanks

Your medical box appears much lighter to ur 7021 swatch. Would have nice to lay your standard next to the box, but to happen.

Exelent video! Good subject. I paint with Vallejo exclusive, but 70.995 is not RAL 7021. Its RAL 7016. Vallejo 70.862 is stated as RAL 7021. The air series equivalant is Vallejo 71.056.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. I checked Vallejo’s site and they list 70.862 as equivalent to “RAL” but don’t give a colour number... I’ve had a few folks suggest other paints that weren’t covered in this video, so maybe a sequel is necessary? acrylicosvallejo.com/en/product/hobby/model-color-en/black-grey-70862/

@MrVethon

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob The RAL number is on the bottle

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrVethon so it is! 😂😂😂

@MrVethon

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob How close do you think XF-24 Dark Grey would be?

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@MrVethon good question. Their greasy tend to be fairly neutral, but I don’t have that paint.

In fact, Tamiya's acrylic is not that bad if you make a clear coat.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

It’s not bad paint, just not accurate, but folks can paint their kits to please their own aesthetic vision. 😀

Interestingly, the problem is that the smaller the scale, the lighter the paint should be. The actual shade on a model kit will be way too dark. You can almost say you have to take your final ranking and reverse it to get something right.

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Hi Robert. I’m not 100% convinced that scale colour is actually a thing. Yes, over very long distances (kilometres away), objects far away look desaturated (a phenomenon called aerial diffusion), but at the scale distances we’re talking about at 1/35 scale I don’t think there’s a real difference. A 1/35 scale tank viewed at 6 feet away should look like a real tank viewed at 210 feet (70 yards) away. I don’t believe there’s a noticeable difference in colour of a real object at this relatively short distance. What I think we see in a lot of photos of tanks that look faded is just dust or exposure issues in the photograph.

another quick comment... could be usefull to see about the famous SCALE EFFECT too :)

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

I remain to be convinced that scale colour is actually real... I’ve been thinking about doing an experiment. Maybe a future video?

@lalouxfrancois

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob would be nice :) cheers

Please do one in the correct Panzer interior ivory 😁

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

I would love to, but I don’t have any original samples. Tank parts painted Elfenbein don’t show up for sale very often, but I’m always on the lookout for them. Hopefully some day I’ll get some samples and do a video. 🤞😀

@Android-rz8mb

2 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob I watched one of your build videos Using the AK elfenbien was too yellow in your personal opinion what color you think comes close ?

@brucethemodelnoob

2 жыл бұрын

@@Android-rz8mb that’s just my impression… it’s not based on a direct comparison with an actual painted sample. It seems like a pretty good match overall, but as I said might just be a tiny bit too yellow/saturated. I’ve used Tamiya flat white with a few drops of Dark Yellow 2 in the past, but again that’s not matched to any sample of the real paint. I haven’t tried any other brands of Elfenbein yet. Hopefully at some point I’ll get some actual samples of Elfenbein and be able to do a proper evaluation. 😀

@Android-rz8mb

2 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob Thank you once again I really enjoy your builds 😁

What's happened to the RAL standard system? Why not just look at the standard and see what pigments to use in what proportion?

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

The RAL system is still in use, but they changed it after the war. Some wartime colours were removed (like 7028 Dunkelgelb), while other had their names, numbers, and sometimes colours changed. The post-war switch from natural oxide pigments to synthetic pigments for some colours resulted in a change in the colour too. For RAL 7021, the name changed to Schwartzgrau, and the new pigments resulted in a slightly darker value. Wartime 7021 is closer to modern RAL 7016, called Anthrazitgrau, than it is to modern 7021.

@ollep9142

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob When a standard gets changed the old version is normally kept available for future reference. My question is if the 1940 version is still obtainable, and if so why not use it? Even if the paint manufacturers today don't want to use the same pigments they should do a small reference batch for use as comparison to their new formula(s).

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

@@ollep9142 There are a very few surviving samples of the official colour chips (believe me, I’ve tried to find some). Its possible that original pigment recipes still exist in the archives of any wartime companies that are still in business? I’m waiting for an upcoming book by Jens at historycolors.de. He’s probably the most accomplished researcher on the subject of German wartime paint.

damn noob! I plan on painting my truck panzer grey!

Vallejo do panzer grey and Dunkelgrau 2 different paints and codes use the Dunkelgrau one the panzer grey it's just off

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, another comment mentioned a different Vallejo colour. I have a few other paints to try, so perhaps I’ll do a follow-up video?

@AFV85

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob what number is your panzer grey from vallejo? Is it RAL7021 Dunkelgrau 71.056?

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

@@AFV85 as pointed out by someone else I used the incorrect Vallejo colour - their version of 7016 - which explains why it appeared too light. As mentioned I’ll be getting the correct paint for a new video. 😀

Vallejo 70.995 is not ral 7021 but 7016. The Ral 7021 eqvivalent is 70.862 you shuld take a look.

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Someone else mentioned that as well. I’ve picked up that colour and a few others I didn’t use in the video and will be doing another comparison video. 😀

@tylerleversage1933

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob Any idea when you will be doing the second comparision video? Working on a Panzer 38t and just picked up Vallejo 70.862. Also interested in the various Tamiya mixes. Cheers

@brucethemodelnoob

Жыл бұрын

@@tylerleversage1933 I’ve been procrastinating, but your message gives me a kick in the a** to get things rolling. I have the sample swatches painted. I just need to sit down and make the video… maybe by Sunday?

@tylerleversage1933

Жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob Awesome! Looking forward to it!

50 shades of field green..lol...I've enjoyed watching "experts" duel over coloring for decades...due to wartime shortages and different manufacturers there are multiple shades of EVERY German ww2 color..true story Btw,great video!

@Panzermeister36

3 жыл бұрын

True story? Really?

@brucethemodelnoob

3 жыл бұрын

Yup, you could describe it as really dark Feldgrau. Wartime shortages... multiple shades of every colour? In 1939? In 1940? Sounds like something that someone wearing a tinfoil hat might say.... 😉😂

@tinfoilhatorchestra5214

3 жыл бұрын

@@Panzermeister36 I watched 2 older guys punch it out in the parking lot of the local hobby shop as a teen.the fight began over the proper color of the german gas mask container.I offered some of my collection to the shop owner for display,he gladly accepted..I dont know if it stopped any fights but it gave them something to ponder

@tinfoilhatorchestra5214

3 жыл бұрын

@@brucethemodelnoob not in 39..40...heck even militaria from the African campaign is fairly regulation...but by 44 the textile coloring and paint pigmentation standards were often overlooked due to shortages..ever seen 44 dot camo w pink in it? It exists.

@Panzermeister36

3 жыл бұрын

@@tinfoilhatorchestra5214 so, what do 1944 conditions have to do with paint that was stopped being used in early 1943?