I truly love how quickly Admiral Haftal "scrubbed in" to help Data try to save Lal. And the look of pain and sadness on his face when he reported to Picard that they failed. Definitely left him with honor and dignity others on this list don't have.

@momokochama1844

Жыл бұрын

thats one side of the coin. the other side is that it was probably his plan to take her away from Data that lead to her breakdown

@user-zh4vo1kw1z

Жыл бұрын

I don't think he deserves to be on this list. His argument was basically "let's be somewhat certain we don't have a skynet situation here before we give them a mass production option". Ya know kinda the same argument made in the "the ultimate computer". Like Polaski it only took some personal experience with Data to start to sway his (quite reasonable, given the track record Starfleet has with AI) doubt. He was cautious, not hatefull. He wanted to prevent cylons, not castrate an emerging lifeform.

@jong.7944

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, there were a lot of bad admirals in Star Trek, Haftel shouldn't be on this list. Having a well-meaning disagreement with the best of intentions doesn't remotely compare to all the admirals that were unbearably arrogant, criminal, stupid, corrupt, lazy, overly political/bureaucratic and/or borderline treasonous at times.

@chukwudiilozue9171

Жыл бұрын

@@jong.7944 Borderline?

@jong.7944

Жыл бұрын

@@chukwudiilozue9171 Haha, fair point. Besides the coup d'etat attempt in DS9 I couldn't immediately think of any straight-forward treason, it's usually just criminal activity or plotting to obstruct/contravene Starfleet/Federation regs. And sometimes working with enemies of the Federation for their own agenda. But there have were so many dodgy admirals (and ambassadors, those are rotten with a pretty high degree of regularity) that I just couldn't remember the examples of open treason right at hand.

"The needs of the many" applied by own decision to sacrifice one self (Spock) vs "How many does it take Admiral" applied to a decision to sacrifice others. It's not about the number, it's about who decides for whom.

@KenshiImmortalWolf

Жыл бұрын

Similarly, Even if one was to sacrifice others, these must be people who have chosen to put their lives in your hands. In the episode where Troi is trying to become a bridge officer, she refuses to solve the problem with sacrifice, one of the things she has to learn, is being willing to send 1 man to die, to save the entire ship. The people the admiral was effectively sacrificing where just, civilians, people who had made no choices in the matters that lead them there. Their sacrifice was forced and not a willing one.

@ATEC101

Жыл бұрын

@@KenshiImmortalWolf Isn't this the 'I didn't vote for them, therefore I am not to blame false argument?' They willingly participated even if the outcome was not their preferred 'outcome'. If you, they, them, we join, allow or encourage a 'viewpoint, perspective or law' you have to face the consequences. Mostly because of apathy due to lack of earnest, educated engagement.

@KenshiImmortalWolf

Жыл бұрын

@@ATEC101 Not even. This is a false equivalent. First off the planet isn't even a federation member even if the population is few they did not choose to be in the federation. Second The comparison i am making is the difference between military and civilian. Starfleet officers go through rigorous training to know the risks involved in being part of starfleet, even if your goal is more scientific that is still risky because Starfleet handles very dangerous research in order to learn and to make things safer. Understanding leads to fewer people putting their lives at risk by passing something they don't know is dangerous. As such even if this world was a federation colony civilians are not subject to the demands of starfleet as they did not sign up for starfleet rules and regulations they are only there for the regulations of the federation and thus cannot just be displaced for the benefit one admiral sees in harvesting their worlds unique radiation. How you even drew this conclusion is beyond me honestly as i do not know where i left room for interpretations like this.

@andrewhall7074

Жыл бұрын

It's an ongoing reflection for picard. He mentions during TNG about the forced removal of native Americans and the conquering of entire nations. He also almost shaved it in Fordt Contact. "The invade entire world's and we fall back... the lone must be drawn here! This far, no further" That's just like our own history of subjugation. The needs of the many has been turned on its head by colonial powers for centuries. Its good that Star Trek acknowledges the crimes committed for millennia on earth... particularly Picard.

@emmastrange5557

Жыл бұрын

@@ATEC101 They aren't federation citizens. There have been cases before where people were given a choice between having to leave their planet or stay but renounce their citizenship (Journey's End). This situation is entirely different as the federation is quite literally invading their planet.

Say what you want about Haftel, Nicolas Coster's performance on the episode was incredible. Him coming out of the 'surgery' and describing Data's attempts to save Lal always stuck with me.

@YolandaAnneBrown95726

Жыл бұрын

Episode breaks my heart so much!! 💔💔💔🖖🏽🖖🏽🖖🏽

@Akira625

Жыл бұрын

Admittedly, he made some valid points. He brought up the possibility of losing both Lal and Data in a Romulan attack, since the Enterprise is a highly visible ship as the Federation's flagship, and has previously ended up in many dangerous situations.

@momokochama1844

Жыл бұрын

@@Akira625 I see that just as a cheap justification. If they were afraid of loosing such a high advanced android, Data should never have been on Enterprise in the beginning

@HermanVonPetri

Жыл бұрын

@@Akira625 I don't understand why Haftel didn't just offer Data a career at Starfeet's cybernetics department as an instructor and let him demonstrate the techniques he developed for positronics. Of course, for the sake of the TV show they couldn't do that.

@user-zh4vo1kw1z

Жыл бұрын

@@HermanVonPetri TBH. He wanted to study Lal. Data never once offered to join them or share his methodology. I can see why that would reek of some Cylon secrecy. Not like Starfleet had a good track record with AI. At that point, Data was pretty much the first that didn't try to wipe out everything. And given the Lore situation, it may well be a fluke that his build didn't make him genocidal. Especially as it's flat out stated that emotionality is what drove Lore over the edge and Lal was clearly having emergent emotions

You should do another list with "10 most hated admirals" for those who were not as objectively bad at their job, but still big jerks with big insignias.

@Deadpool_64

Жыл бұрын

Number one should be that c**t Admiral Alynna Nechayev. My god she had such a bad attitude every time she showed up.

@davidmoncholi6746

Жыл бұрын

That would be good

@TheFiddleFaddle

Жыл бұрын

You just REALLY want Admiral Clancy on a list, don't you 😂

@davidmoncholi6746

Жыл бұрын

@@TheFiddleFaddle yep

@Nevarmoer

Жыл бұрын

Nechayev... hands down

7:26 No Jamison died because he took BOTH doses. The people he procured it from clearly said that one dose was enough and would reverse his ageing slowly. Because he needed to be in “fighting fit” shape to fight Karnass, he took the dose intended for his wife as well. This is why he got younger very quickly, and it killed him.

@shadizersilverhand2113

Жыл бұрын

Yes, his decision was a complete mistake to take both. He had the mind for things he didn't need the physical fitness as well but just had to be the big tough man for the battle and it killed him.

@douglaslane9320

Жыл бұрын

Is it just me or do Sean and trekculture at large miss a huuuuuuuge amount of this stuff?

Props for the wonderful comments on the late Brock Peters. ST6 is my favorite TOS movie, fighting neck-and-neck to The Wrath of Khan, and he was so terrifying ruthless!

@adamgoss3638

Жыл бұрын

@SciFiDude79 Nichelle Nichols had the same issue with the line she was supposed to say about "Guess who's coming to dinner", hated it so much they gave the line to Chekov instead

@LordViktor299

Жыл бұрын

6 Is hands down my favorite. So much of the movie slaps with great direction and acting. The allegories to current day racism and how to learn from it is something I feel Star Trek has been battling since ToS.

@joekerr3638

Жыл бұрын

At the end of 6, she has a line "I felt like Lt. Valeris."

Surprised Admiral Buenamigo wasn't on here. I liked that he kinda gave an explanation for why the "evil" Admiral is such a common occurrence. Once you reach Admiral you hit a wall. You have to do something extreme to get noticed and make a difference.

@TerenceLight

Жыл бұрын

Buenamigo definitely deserves a spot since he, like others on the list, willfully ordered the destruction of a Starfleet ship and its crew just to cover his own ass. I think he only gets a pass for now since the episode is still very new and thus could be considered a sort of spoiler for now.

@agent_skully

Жыл бұрын

lol I just posted his name then saw that you did.

@gedias1

Жыл бұрын

It was also a nice explanation as to why admirals go bad. They all try to make a name for themselves.

@KentuckyKaiju

Жыл бұрын

No doubt this video was recorded before the last two episodes of Lower Decks. Otherwise Buenamigo would easily have taken #2 on this list (Cartwright still takes it by virtue of his actions in ST:VI)

@digitalrailroader

Жыл бұрын

@@TerenceLight not only that, he covered up Rutherford's involvement in the Texas Project after the accident that injured him, and then proceeded to use the EXTREMELY flawed AI code that Rutherford wrote which eventually ended his life by taking a Starship Grade phaser beam to the abdomen.

I 100% understand why Adm. Buenamigo isn't on this list... but any adminal named "Good Friend" is definitely not one.

@CelticCubby

Жыл бұрын

I was suspicious of him once I heard that name...

@leticiagarcia9025

Жыл бұрын

He was a suspicious fellow from the get go.

@JohnPeacekeeper

Жыл бұрын

You know that Starfleet is corrupt af when Buenamigo isn't even on the top 10

@ussgettysburg316

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps this video was recorded before that episode was released.

@PmmGarak

Жыл бұрын

@@ussgettysburg316 then you'd go and reedit. ok, the algorithm needs constant feedings but not at this cost of content.

Honorable mention to Admiral Kennelly who was tricked by the Cardassians although he clearly knew something since he was being covert on his own.

@davidhabert

Жыл бұрын

I was quite surprised that he didn't appear on this list.

@VictoryHighway

Жыл бұрын

I thought of him as well.

You forgot a big one. Admiral Kennelly ordered Picard and the Enterprise to stand down allowing the Cardassians to destroy a ship they believed were full of alleged Bajoran terrorists. This was the intro episode to Ensign Ro Laren.

@seriascannain6675

Жыл бұрын

You beat me to that comment! I wonder what his punishment for these actions was!?

@gbkworf

Жыл бұрын

@@seriascannain6675 Court martial at the least and probably jail time. He sanctioned and participated in what should have been numerous deaths, if not for Picard. Which probably saved his ass big time from far worse charges, like murder.

@dragonfireideas

Жыл бұрын

Speaking of stand down orders, Admiral Hayes surely would have been involved in the decision to withhold the Enterprise from the Battle of Sector 001.

@kevinquinn7645

Жыл бұрын

@@gbkworf He should have been sentence to serve time in the same cell as Captain Maxwell from 'The Wounded'. They would have made each others' lives miserable.

@anthonykearney608

Жыл бұрын

@@dragonfireideas yeah but hayes didnt do it out of an agenda and wasnt a bad admiral. he had good reasons for it. he was just wrong

How is Admiral Buenamigo not on here? He was literally going to murder an entire starship crew to cover up the flaws of his pet project.

@chickadeestevenson5440

Жыл бұрын

my guess is this was filmed before the release?

@EvilGuy52

Жыл бұрын

I totally agree, in the episode, he was even called--to his face--a "bad faith admiral" and he outright admitted to that. That alone should've put him in the #1 position, imho. Though I don't entirely disagree with the 'current' #1 on this list, he was at least ruled by fear and "thought" he was doing the "right thing". Buenamigo *knew* he was doing the wrong thing, *knew* he was taking shortcuts, *knew* he was doing this because of pride... and he still committed 100% to the role and didn't even try to redeem himself in the slightest.

In "Star Trek IV", when Kirk was demoted back to captain, he didn't even see that as a punishment since he never wanted to be an admiral in the first place!

@KentuckyKaiju

Жыл бұрын

It really does make you wonder why he accepted the role in the first place. Or why he didn’t just step down voluntarily once he realized it didn’t suit him. I can’t imagine Starfleet would force Kirk to stay an admiral if he didn’t want it.

@vegeta002

Жыл бұрын

Frankly, I doubt _Starfleet_ saw it as a punishment either. It was most likely their way of rewarding him for saving Earth while making it look like they were punishing him to pacify the Klingons.

@jimhuffman9434

Жыл бұрын

That's why there's kind of a "sweet, I get command of my own ship again" look in Kirk's eyes when he gets demoted from admiral to captain

@paulwhite6745

Жыл бұрын

@@KentuckyKaiju The TMP novelisation (which was written by Gene Roddenberry himself) shows that Kirk was manipulated into accepting flag rank by Nogura. Of course this isn't strictly canon as it didn't appear on screen, even if it did come from Roddenberry, but it always made sense to me. A younger (40ish) Kirk was pushed into flag rank by a manipulative Starfleet commander but later came to resent it by the time he was pushing 50.

I still think that Admiral Lester Buenamigo is the worse admiral in Starfleet history. He created a class of ship that killed untold number of people, purposely set up a mission designed to fail, erased the memories of the original project head, and knew of a Breen incursion, but told no one just to prove a point.

@chickadeestevenson5440

Жыл бұрын

and fully admitted it was because he wanted a legacy. He didn't even TRY to hide the fact that he was a prolapsed flaming butthole. I mean, at least he owned it?

@Utubesuperstar

11 ай бұрын

He also literally ordered said ship to murder the entire crew of the Cerritos

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from watching TNG, it’s that whenever an admiral beams onboard the Enterprise, they bring trouble with them. Is there something in the water over at Starfleet Command? There’s no shortage of Starfleet admirals who make absolutely terrible decisions, or break the very rules they’re supposed to uphold, or get involved in conspiracies.

@Nx57ytre

Жыл бұрын

The only Admiral to board the Enterprise D who wasn't a pain in the ass was Admiral Brackett. She went to talk to Picard, was cordial the whole time, informing him that Spock had disappeared and apparently was on Romulus and sent him to investigate. Just that.

@patrickwagner6247

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like upper management in a nutshell. Comes in, unaware of what's going on, makes changes, demands things, and people are like, but it works the way it is.

@DerIrre1

Жыл бұрын

According to Lower Decks, it happens because with little advancement options left once you are part of the Admirality, many tend to turn towards pet projects / private obsessions in order to stand out above their peers, leading to all sorts of idiosyncracies if left unchecked. So yeah, at the top many Admirals get bored and desperate to still one-up each others with notable performance, ending up as little more than twitchy mental wrecks

@esecallum

Жыл бұрын

Washington

@QBCPerdition

Жыл бұрын

@@DerIrre1 This was one good justification, but I think the true problem lies a little deeper. Think about what Kirk says to Picard. "While you're there, you can make a difference." So who becomes admirals? There are only two types that I can think of. 1) Those, like Kirk, who didn't realize what they were giving up. 2) Those for whom making a difference was less important than status. The first group may result in good admirals, but ones who are not fully invested in being admirals, who may be looking for ways to make a difference, like Satie, or who pine for command of a ship, like Kirk. The second, though, are the ones who have the hubris, the pride to believe they know better, who think they should be calling the shots. Basically, I think the true problem lies in the very fabric of Star Fleet, connected to its weird dichotomy of being a military force, but also a scientific endeavor. Those two goals are often at odds. And who would really want to go from being the captain of a starship to sitting in an office? They really need to have admirals continue serving as ship commanders. There is no reason they need to all be on Earth, they can have subspace meetings from their ships.

Even Spock told Kirk that it was a mistake for him to become an admiral. "Commanding a Starship is your first, best destiny. Anything else is a waste of material." - Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan

@MadnessHEROReverend

Жыл бұрын

"Best destiny" is actually what he says.

@robertszekely8686

Жыл бұрын

@@MadnessHEROReverendyou're right. That's what happens when I'm trying to go to fast. Thanks 🖖

@robertszekely8686

Жыл бұрын

@@MadnessHEROReverend I'll edit it now. Thanks again.

@MadnessHEROReverend

Жыл бұрын

@@robertszekely8686 no problem glad to help. only reason I remember it as well as I do is because it's the title of one of my favorite books that goes into Captain Kirk's backstory, plus fills in some of the gap between final frontier and the christening of the Enterprise B we see in Generations.

@robertszekely8686

Жыл бұрын

@@MadnessHEROReverend Thanks again. Maybe I'll read book.

It just occurred to me that Kirk's advice to Picard is effectively the entire premise of the show Picard.

One thing I loved about "The Drumhead" is that it finally showed NCOs in Starfleet. Most Naval ships have a huge number of them, but in Starfleet almost everyone is an officer. That's always annoyed me.

@jameswhitfield6220

Жыл бұрын

This former NCO has always been annoyed by that. We're the backbone of the services, damn it! LOL

@oldtwinsna8347

Жыл бұрын

Chalk that up to Roddenberry who demanded everyone working onboard was a commissioned officer. As he gradually lost influence over the show, that loosened up.

@zooropa04

Жыл бұрын

@@oldtwinsna8347 Huh, I didn't know that. Thanks for the factoid!

@zooropa04

Жыл бұрын

@@jameswhitfield6220 Yeah man, I have a cousin who actually is an officer in the Navy and he says the exact same thing.

@myspin9680

Жыл бұрын

Most of the shows deal with the Bridge staff who are all officers. That is true for most naval vessels. Whenever the show would go to other areas in the ship, you would see lower ranking crew members.

Always found that really interesting. Roddenburry imagined a fairly utopian Federation by the time Next Generation rolled around so he banned most interpersonal conflict between the crew and claimed all humanity's ills were "cured" somehow... But because that completely obliterated dramatic potential beyond the "alien planet/ship of the week" they introduced this weird dynamic where like 90% of admirals are the most incompetent, selfish, corrupt or evil antagonists we ever see in the show, well except maybe the Romulans...

Admiral Ross didn't undermine the Cretak because she might prove a threat, it was to ensure their actual spy (Koval) remained in place and above suspicion. Now that's still ruthlessly pragmatic, but it wasn't because he was worried about a more powerful Cretak.

@ssblue8832

Жыл бұрын

Well, it was both. He said himself, she was a patriot, meaning she would throw the Federation under the bus if she thought the Romulans could come out better by making a deal with the Dominion.

@michaelbayer5094

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, that episode was about getting Koval promoted in Romulan govt. Cretak would have been sacrificed no matter what.

For me the one that hurt the most was Bill Ross. Up until that episode he was the perfect example of an Admiral that was tough but always fair and I think he was absolutely right that Jadzia Dax was qualified to lead missions as the Defiants commander. Side note I think there should be a list of Starfleet science medical, and specialist officers who would make excellent Captains. Jadzia Dax Beverly Crusher D'vana Tendi Spock Deanna Troi Christine Chapel Hoshi Sato Miles O'Brien The Doctor Carol Marcus (ST II) Hope everyone is having an excellent weekend 🖖

@PetersonZF

Жыл бұрын

Spock *was* a Captain...

@StephenLeGresley

Жыл бұрын

@@PetersonZF True, I forgot about that , but we never actually got to see him in command of a ship.

I would really love to see you guys rank all the Star Trek doctors from worst to best

This should be called 10 worst moments Federation Admirals had or 10 worst decisions Federation Admiral made.

I definitely think Admiral Janeaway should be on this list, and high on it too, her breaking of the Temporal Prime Directive can never be excused, its potential for damage is higher than anything else on this list. And actions have consequences, and now she is in Prodigy could this past be coming back to haunt her, are her actions responsible for Chakotay's & The Protostar's disappearance, after all the Diviner may have encountered them in a future time and brought them back to the present? As you said on screen an admiral is responsible for many ships and decisions yet here she is off solo, on a wild goose chase

@akl2k7

Жыл бұрын

And to think her traveling to the past to right what was wrong could be justified if they made her future a bit more crapsack, such as by having the Borg taking over parts of Federation space or another nearby empire falling to them(such as the Romulans or Klingons, the latter possibly being a good justification for Miral's involvement). This would justify her going off and severely weakening the Borg. In fact, I think some of the old novels used that justification for her traveling back in time (and for the 29th century time police not bothering her).

@hawkedarkblade5027

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention Janeway's breaking of every rule pertaining to the Omega Directive and nearly destroying light years of subspace.

@ssblue8832

Жыл бұрын

@@hawkedarkblade5027 -- Uh, she did exactly what she was supposed to do. She destroyed the Omega molecules and never wavered from that goal. The only rule she broke was telling her senior staff about it, and she had a good reason for that; if they'd been in the Alpha Quadrant, a special team would have been sent to handle it, but she had nobody to help her except her officers. How sure are you that she could have done it without telling them?

@schwarzerritter5724

Жыл бұрын

SS Blue Janeway also genocided a civilization in the process. Just because the Omega Directive says she is allowed to does not mean she did not genocide a civilisation.

@hawkedarkblade5027

Жыл бұрын

@@schwarzerritter5724 Precisely!

Come to think of it, Sarek should have recruited a Vulcan ship to infiltrate Genesis and retrieve Spock's body. I'm sure a Vulcan admiral would have understood the urgency.

@momokochama1844

Жыл бұрын

I'm not so sure about that - Sarek himself admits his logic is compromised because of his sons "death" "What you seek has not been done since ages past, and then only in legend. Your request is not logical." "Forgive me, T'Lar. My logic is uncertain where my son is concerned." I don't think it's too farfetched other vulcans would come to the same conclusion as T'Lar

@silversonic1

Жыл бұрын

@@momokochama1844 To be fair, there proved to be both a living body and the mind of the body within another man. Leaving them separate was illogical, since that would guarantee the issue was never resolved. It's better to try and fail than not try at all. You at least gain the experience from the attempt.

@PetersonZF

Жыл бұрын

@@silversonic1 True, but they didn't know there was a living body until they went.

@silversonic1

Жыл бұрын

@@PetersonZF There is a question, why did they go? Bones was the only hint that they needed to go back, as he was arrested trying to secure travel there. But my earlier comment was more to the point of Sarek's request at the end of the movie. All of the illogical things have happened. But the request itself made sense because the illogical choices actually made that request possible.

@shadizersilverhand2113

Жыл бұрын

@@momokochama1844 although that's flawed logic since it's really logical that a parent would seek to do everything that they could to help their son, even if it meant doing what others considered illogical.

Kirk sucked as an Admiral, true, but Starfleet seems to have understood this, and did what I like to call "promote him back to Captain" where he always was the most useful. I also got the sense that at the very least by WOK, if not TPM already, he really regretted taking that promotion. Hell, by Generations he straight up tells Picard not to do it if it's offered.

@Akira625

Жыл бұрын

Indeed, Kirk _hated_ being an admiral. He's very hands on, and is not the kind of guy who wants to be stuck behind a desk. He would rather sit in the captain's seat, and go on adventures across the galaxy.

@momokochama1844

Жыл бұрын

@@Akira625 James T Kirk: “Vice Admirals don’t fly, do they?” Commodore Paris: “No. They don’t.” James T Kirk: “No offence Ma’am, but... where’s the fun in that?”

@donkyhotay4583

Жыл бұрын

Spock outright tells Kirk in Wrath of Khan "If I may be so bold, it was a mistake for you to accept promotion. Commanding a starship is your first, best destiny; anything else is a waste of material."

@trekaddict

Жыл бұрын

@@donkyhotay4583 Easily my favourite line in a movie stuffed to the brim with good ones.

I like how, when Pressman decided to create a Federation cloaking device, he also made an improvement to the technology, rather than just purely trying to catch up to the Romulans level of cloaking technology.

@silversonic1

Жыл бұрын

True. The Romulans actually did experiment with a phasing cloak, resulting in the "deaths" of LaForge and Ro (they got better). So the Federation phased cloaking device was made before even the Romulan version.

@origami83

Жыл бұрын

They should have kept the phasing tech and remove the cloaking aspect of it. Then the treaty would have been honored that way.

@silversonic1

Жыл бұрын

@@origami83 But phasing was what caused the cloaking.

@karlharrison1499

Жыл бұрын

It would have been legal if it was just phaseic energy. Then it's like not a cloak but fire all you want it will just pass right through us

@RyanBlazeheart

Жыл бұрын

Interesting seeing you here HCBailly. I'm a big trekkie too! more so now due to Star Wars being effectively a dead franchise to me. So I like watching these discussions a lot more than I do star wars stuff.

One thing I've really appreciated about the last two seasons of Discovery is Admiral Vance is *good*. Good character, good admiral and even if he's having to adversarial for an episode, it's done in a way that you know he's doing things for the right reasons. I mean, you gotta have conflict between characters for a good story, after all!

@GSBarlev

Жыл бұрын

Amazing actor. I was convinced when they introduced him that he was secretly a villain. What with him showing up in places where you'd expect a civilian leader, I expected him to be revealed to be a Leighton who'd succeeded. But then the next season you see how _relieved_ he is to have Rillak as POTUF, and my headcanon at least is that her predecessor just couldn't be arsed to be involved, so Vance was filling in as best he could.

@KentuckyKaiju

Жыл бұрын

@@GSBarlev Vance was doing what needed to be done. Which is a very dangerous position to be in since it can easily lead to overstepping if one gets too comfortable with it. As you say, Vance could easily have been *that* admiral and pretty much get away with it if he were a different person. It says a lot about someone to see them step up to leadership but also willingly give up the reigns when the crisis is passed. It’s a trait that few people possess. I know opinions vary a lot on the quality of Discovery’s character writing but it’s a credit to them to be able to write him like this while keeping him relatable. He’s not a larger than life hero. Vance is just… Good Boss.

I read something someplace years ago when fans were taking note of the Dreadnaught model on Admiral Marcus' desk, and one of the directors or producers commented that it was an error. He wasn't on set that day, and if he had been, the model wouldn't have been there.

@slcRN1971

Жыл бұрын

Even though it was listed as a mistake, I think that the Admiral was so consumed by his own (warped) self importance/narcissistic ideas - - that he would have allowed that ship model to be in plain site. It seems that no one mentioned that model to him and if they had, he most likely had an pat answer ready.

The needs of the many... Fine. But the "one" who got the short end was Spock himself. And that makes all the difference in the universe.

Interestingly, Robert Foxworth, who played Admiral Leyton in DS9, also played General Hague in Babylon 5 (in fact, his B5 character was killed off because he was double-booked for both shows, preventing him from making what would probably have been his final B5 appearance). In both cases, he played a high-ranking Earth officer leading a coup against his own President. The difference, though, is that DS9's Jaresh-Inyo was the legitimate, duly-elected President of the United Federation of Planets, whom Leyton was trying to oust in an outright military coup. B5's President Clark, on the other hand, only became President by assassinating his predecessor (with alien help) and was himself turning the Earth Alliance from a democracy into a fascist dictatorship; so General Hague was, in fact, trying to employ a military coup to reinstate democracy. In DS9, Admiral Leyton wanted to introduce martial law against the President's wishes; in B5, General Hague's coup was instigated by President Clark's decision to implement martial law (and the murderous actions he took against the Mars provisional government when they refused to follow suit).

@ssblue8832

Жыл бұрын

Huh. Leyton was only in a couple of episodes of _DS9_ IIRC. Seems odd that they couldn't work around it.

@angelphoenix7784

Жыл бұрын

Found what Layton did was to show a weakness of how SF operated while he did in the wrong way. This channel misrepresented several adms. They were not evil, they did what thought was right. There were some adms, that were evil and stupid, the basic villain of the week kind.

@ssblue8832

Жыл бұрын

@@angelphoenix7784 -- I don't know how "They thought they were doing the right thing" mitigates any of the fucked-up shit they did. And the title of the video is not, you'll notice, "10 Most Evil Admirals in Star Trek". It doesn't misrepresent them, it accurately describes the things they did.

@angelphoenix7784

Жыл бұрын

@@ssblue8832 I'm going to use Layton as an example. What he did showed there were flaws and the Federation was vulnerable. If he didn't do what he did, do you really think SF would have countered the Brine like they did? The answer is no. So, he did was the right thing, he just did it the wrong way. Not sure how I can make this anymore clearer for you.

@fmitchell238a

Жыл бұрын

In an out-take from _Babylon 5_ the actor who was supposed to announce Hague's death said something like "he's on Deep Space Nine." (EDITED because someone below told the same story, but remembered it better.)

I love Admiral Ross. He was the Sisko of Admirals, you know he has his own Pale Moonlight.

I suddenly considered the time-travelling Admiral Janeway. Although her motives were to save her crew earlier(especially Tuvok), she did stuff. She stole advanced technology, messed with the timeline, introduced the Borg to tech that won’t exist for 30 years(remember, their best trait is that they adapt and quickly) and clearly threw every rule and common sense out the window. While still a captain, she had several time travel encounters as well as cautions from the 29th century, so she of all people should know better.

@oldtwinsna8347

Жыл бұрын

Have to agree, this was one of the most selfish acts committed by an admiral. No noble cause for the Federation. At least Satie was trying to save Starfleet or believed she was. Pressman was trying to give the Federation a major strategic advantage. But Janeway just wanted to save a few friends from an action she took upon herself to why they were stranded out there in the first place.

@shadizersilverhand2113

Жыл бұрын

Although to be fair when she sacrificed herself to be assimilated and infect the Borg Consciousness it's possible part of her planning included a specially prepared virus to destroy the information from the future before the Borg could permanently assimilate it. She did have some pretty detailed plans and decades of effort put into planning for it.

Great vid! Though I think you forgot about Admiral Janeway from Star Trek: Voyager's End Game finale. If you are going to make Admiral Kirk #2 on this list, then Janeway easily tops Kirk as she basically did the same thing as Kirk -- save her crew -- but on a dramatically larger scale. Janeway committed treason in her timeline in an effort to violate the temporal prime directive -- and succeeded! Janeway outright rewrote history to bring Voyager home, and the butterfly effects that came with that have never been explored to my knowledge, at least on screen. People completely written out of existence, etc; I love Star Trek: Voyager, and I love Captain Janeway, but, in the context of this video, using your own criteria for Kirk and omitting Janeway feels like an oversight. What Kirk did is small fries compared to how Janeway went about her mission.

@briancollins69

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Image somone going back in time and changes 20+ years of history.

@adamsfusion

Жыл бұрын

I've always wondered why future Star Fleet didn't go back in time to prevent her from doing that, as like you said, it directly breaks the Temporal Prime Directive.

@robertszekely8686

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely agree. Even though during the episode people hope she succeeds , just like they hoped Harry succeeded in "Timeless." Nonetheless this is a blatant disregard of the temporal prime directive. Janeway should be on this list.

@jazzboneplaya

Жыл бұрын

Janeway's decisions are questionable no matter the rank 😂

We may need a worst commodores list sometime. Commodore Stocker, "The Deadly Years" would have to be on the list. Commodore Decker, "The Doomsday Machine," too. Maybe Commodore Travers, "Arena," thrown in since he was KIA. Sad since Commodore Travers was known for his "hospitality," according to McCoy.

@Akira625

Жыл бұрын

Though there aren’t a lot of people who held the commodore rank in Star Trek.

@Chuck_Hooks

Жыл бұрын

@@Akira625 More than I would have thought. Memory Alpha lists approximately 20 commodores throughout Trek.

@citybythesea2010

Жыл бұрын

Agree!!

At first I was surprised about Necheyev not being on this list, but while she regularly screwed over our beloved Captains and Commanders, she never actively betrayed Starfleet or the Federation, and actually generally had the best interests of Starfleet in mind. She was also right more often than she was wrong, annoying as it was. The one time she did seem to be betraying Starfleet, the Federation, and the entire Alpha Quadrant to the Dominion, it turned out she was a hologram and it was a test to fomd how determined Sisko and crew were to keep the Dominion from gaining a foothold. She'd probably make a most hated Starfleet Admirals list though....

@zt1053

Жыл бұрын

I would say being incompetent should put admirals on the list too.

@Karthos1000

Жыл бұрын

@@zt1053 I don't think she was incompetent either. She certainly was brusque, rude, and annoying, but she was also usually in the right, and doing what she did for the good of Starfleet/the Federation. (Just that she also had a tendency to follow the regulations, which is something we loved most of our Captains for NOT doing.)

Can’t agree with Ross, he did what was needed to save the federation just like sisko did with senator vreenak

@KingOfDoma

Жыл бұрын

The first person who'd tell you that what Sisko did was just as wrong as what Ross did would be Sisko himself. Here's the thing, though - he'd be wrong. As bad as assassinating an ally to embroil their government in your war is, at least, at LEAST, there's a clear line from cause to effect there. With Ross? POSSIBLY Kreetak will turn on us. AFTER the war. MAYBE. Sisko's actions were borne out of cold pragmatism, but Ross? Nothing but fear.

@Shory22

Жыл бұрын

Good point.

@O4FUXACHE

Жыл бұрын

condemning Ross shows a rather naïve worldview . . . just look around . . .

@michaeldrake3225

Жыл бұрын

I also don't like Ross siding with the Romulans against Bajor in the season 7 opener. Yes, this is a Federation decision, not a personal action, and yes it's very pragmatic (Romulan support more valuable against the Dominion), but it's such an egregious act of entitled colonial thinking... eurgh!

Hoping this is leading to a Best Admirals list! So many of the admirals we encounter are tragic figures, and it isn't even limited to Starfleet, but they do take the biscuit!

I feel the need to comment on "the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few." Spock was explicitly talking in terms of personal sacrifice and not objective sacrifice. Actions taking on the behalf of *oneself* for the group rather then justification for the exploitation of "the few." The exploitation of the few for the many is the philosophy of the Borg, "We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." How is that anything less the the needs of the many (the Collective) taking place before the needs of the few (everyone else.)

This is one of the best videos that you have released! Very well done

I thank you for adding Kirk. Seriously; Kirk himself knew he was not cut out to be an Admiral, and he referred to that on several occasions.

Awesome list. Have to love some evil admirals. The "there's only 1 starship available" makes little sense in other situations in some previous Trek, but much more sense in this Coup situation. The Admiral in charge of that area of space planned it out that way so there would be only one starfleet ship there at that time, and likely make it so there wouldn't be any non-starfleet capital class ships in the area at the time either. I think my favorite "evil admiral" on this list is Satie. The actor does a wonderful job playing a character who thinks they're correct, and even convincing a main character, Worf, that she's doing the right thing, and it's so insidious, and Patrick Stewart gives a moving speech, that speaks directly to the viewers, it's a wonderful episode.

The strongest point in The Drumhead, and my favorite part, is when the attending admiral just walks out in disgust. No words, no actions, just gets up and walks.

Host: What is on the application for these admirals? Me: Are you evil? Yes, great you got the job.

In defense of James T. Kirk, I believe that he would have had a brilliant career as a Starfleet admiral, had he been promoted to flag rank in wartime. Unfortunately, his ability to grok his enemies was of little use in a Starfleet at peace.

With regards to Kirk and his brief time in the Admirality that was a result of the fact most of the creative team were ex Navy and in their time in the Navy senior Captains were given the option of "moving up or moving out" creating a shedload of crap Admirals who just wanted to get a boat back.

To be fair, in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, even Spock told Kirk that he was wrong to accept promotion and that his true destiny was to be a Captain of a ship.

Do one of the best admirals. Cornwell would need to rank on that list in my opinion. And Kirk hated being an admiral.

@KentuckyKaiju

Жыл бұрын

Also Admiral Vance. Easily the most reasonable Admiral we’ve seen yet. Even when he creates a roadblock, it’s for entirely understandable reasons and he actually bothers to listen to those under them instead of being an autocrat.

I’d love to see a “top ten out of character actions”. Things like neelix in mortal coil, sisko in in the pale moonlight. Even Picard losing his cool in first contact. It’s fun seeing the actors stretch their muscles. And yes, I am available for the video.

@PradoxGamerAu

Жыл бұрын

I feel like all of these are more of an extension of the character in some way with only really Neelix's coming out of no where but still understandable. He lost his family and believed he would see them again but then had something come up to shake that faith. Picard did have a couple of dealings with the Borg after his trauma but add to that them taking over his ship, killing his crew and the voices of the Queen he could hear it doesn't feel too far a step. As for Sisko he had shown in the past that he would always do what he believed to be what was needed even if others would disagree

@benjaminstith

Жыл бұрын

Yeah those are all absolutely valid reasons for the actions but they still are abnormal behavior for the characters. The reasoning behind it could be part of the video even. I will definitely grant that the sisko example is not the best example.

Hats off for not taking the easy route of including Necheyev in here just because she was annoying. Her smug face and dismissive tone was akin to Kai Wynn and she was seriously displeasing, but she was not evil or actually bad. She was simply the embodiment of bureaucracy.

@KNPrince

26 күн бұрын

Exactly.. Necheyev was a career Starfleet officer.. One that got the job done and could make the hard decisions when called upon.. Still she did have her light moments and was willing to show that she was in fact human. That scene when Picard made sure to have her favorite food on hand Bulgarian Canapes... The next time the two would meet she chided him about that when he didn't serve them but added. "They are too fattening anyways." The only thing that I didn't like that she did was transferring command of the Enterprise D to Jellico with next to no warning to either Picard or the ship's crew... The only good thing to come out of that whole situation was the fact that Jellico ordered Troi to wear a standard uniform while on duty...

I can't believe Admiral Patrick never got a mention!

I think your bit on Admiral Kirk was spot on, great captain, lousy admiral lol

What do you think about admiral Nechayev? I'm not sure she was exactly "bad," but she put Captain Picard in uncomfortable positions more than once. Usually enforcing bad policy along the cardassian border concerning the Maquis

@joex2004uk

Жыл бұрын

Not least the fact she took the Enterprise away from Picard and give it to Jelico

@greyshadow9498

Жыл бұрын

She's a bit of a B in the novels as well. Including one incident I remember that brought her at odds with Jellico (Who was the head of Starfleet by then) in the Destiny series.

@vegeta002

Жыл бұрын

Would be difficult, being a hardass doesn't make you a bad admiral. It makes you someone who knows your job is not to make friends, but to get results. The only thing she did that could get her on a "worst admirals" list wasn't even done by her, but rather a Dominion Holodeck program.

@oldtwinsna8347

Жыл бұрын

She was one of the best. Flat out put Picard into his place that he serves the best interests of the Federation and its citizens and so he needed to do away with his personal discomfort in making decisions.

@Zhortac

Жыл бұрын

@@oldtwinsna8347 one of the best? lol good joke. There's a reason the Dominion used her for their simulation with Sisko and the others.

I'm assuming this video was made before the completion of Lower Decks Season 3. Otherwise there would surely be a place for Admiral Buenamigo on here.

The episode with Norah Satie, while a bit heavy-handed, still did a good job exploring the mechanism of a "witch hunt". Probably they meant to reference the McCarthy "Un-American Activities" hearings. It's good to remember that logic does not always equal the truth.

Excellent. Excellent video. Do more like this one if you can. Nicely done!

You could have included several of the commodores from the original series. They were essentially admirals until the Navy retitled them

@greyshadow9498

Жыл бұрын

Which I found odd that Starfleet Security commander Oh was a Commodore instead of RMDL...

I'd love to see a list of "best Admirals" as well. I think Nacheyev deserves more love than she gets!

@KentuckyKaiju

Жыл бұрын

Necheyev is a victim of being a very bad people person. She was almost always right to some extent and had a good grasp of the bigger picture, but seemed to have zero conception of the human cost of her decisions, often leaving those as Somebody Else’s Problem. This no doubt made her a great high level strategist, but a godawful leader. Definitely not a Badmiral, but certainly not someone I’d ever want to work for. Necheyev is the very personification of out-of-touch Upper Management.

@robertszekely8686

Жыл бұрын

Admiral Forrest would probably be on the list.

@Zhortac

Жыл бұрын

@@KentuckyKaiju That shit is probably why the Dominion used her in their scenario to see how Sisko and the others would act if they tried to claim peace. She's definitely one admiral that would actually believe their bullshit.

@paulwhite6745

Жыл бұрын

@@Zhortac Not sure she would. As stated above, she's a shit boss to work for but she's certainly no idiot.

I know someone is just handing you a script but THANK YOU for these videos, Mr. Ferrick! I love Star Trek so much and this is like having a new show to watch/listen to a few times a week.

Please do a 10 Best Admirals In Star Trek! Include the Admiral at the end of the Drum Head episode that gets up from his chair and walks out of the trial against Picard. That was a powerful scene. Please include the OG series Admirals as well.

I think Admiral Buenamigo pissing off every Captain of the California class and messing with Ensign Rutherford's memories deserves a mention.

@Utubesuperstar

11 ай бұрын

He didn’t just do that he ordered the destruction of the Cerritos and the murder of her crew

"Pegasus" always ticked me off because the characters focus on the wrong thing. You made an interphasic cloak . . . .who CARES about the cloaking ability?!?!? You made a device that can make your ship and people stinking INTANGIBLE AND IMMUNE TO ATTACK!!!!! Bin the cloaking part of it and celebrate the fact your ships are invulnerable whenever they darn well feel like it. Yes, I know, story status quo but they bloody wrote it without thinking it through. Episode would have worked fine without the interphasic part.

@momokochama1844

Жыл бұрын

I don't think one works without the other. they were immun to attack BECAUSE the were interphasic shifted

"Badmirals", that was the best part of the video.

Great video thank you please keep up your amazing work and the long and prosper🖖🏻

I'm glad you didn't mention that admiral from discovery. Not for any of the reasons you mentioned but because it makes it feel like discovery doesn't exist when you don't talk about it

They didn't prove Data sentient. That part went without a ruling. What they ruled was that Data WASN'T Starfleet's property. That, again, is where the problem lands. But I feel the Admiral was silently redeemed in the end, as he saw first hand just how much Data loved his daughter, even if Data himself couldn't register that he did.

@silversonic1

Жыл бұрын

As an aside, many of the worries the Admiral had did have merit. But he, unfortunately, thought about things more as a scientist. At no point, however, did it seem like he had gone over Data's documentation. I mean, it's Data. There's documentation. He did go about things wrong, but seeing Data try to save her showed him that nobody could have done a better job in the attempt.

@artembentsionov

Жыл бұрын

Similar to how the Doctor was recognized as an author without recognizing him a sentient being

Funny thing was the guy that played Leighton also played general Haig on Babylon 5. He actually had to miss his last episode on b5, where his character was staging a coup against a facist earth government, to do the ds9 episodes.

@cholizo

Жыл бұрын

There's a wonderful outtake from that B5 episode where Major Ryan tells Captain Sheridan "General Hague... is doing Deep Space Nine. It seems he was double-booked by his agent and there was nothing to be done, so you'll have to deal with me, sir."

@williambryant6175

Жыл бұрын

@@cholizoame here to mention this, lol. What’s even funnier is his replacement wasn’t the correct guy. They meant to get Everett McGill, not Bruce

Another great vid. Just watched the movies 2-6 as it happens, wonderful memories watching as a kid in the 80’s/early 90’s and nice to reminisce.

10:29 the fleet is not headquartered at Earth per se, but at Spacedock. The Lakota was a near-Earth orbit assignment under Leyton's jurisdiction so no one would ask questions. 17:22 Kirk was demoted to Captain, but also torpedoed his career. He never took charge of the new flagship and never held a senior post again. When he boarded the Enterprise B he looked bewildered to be on a ship again while Chekov and Scotty were less lost.

Great points about Admiral Kirk-he was the poster boy of the “Peter Principle”

@kevingaukel4950

Жыл бұрын

As I said previously, he shouldn't be the second worst, but he belongs on this list the reason you stated. Great Captain, horrible Admiral.

@Francois424

Жыл бұрын

Technically, the "Commodore" Rank would've suited him better. Kinda like a Flag captain or Super captain... who can also be called on to command a fleet in case of an all out strike. This would also grant him the ship he wanted (the Enterprise). You stay in the chair, which is all he really wanted in retrospect. However stealing the ship out of space dock? Commodore or not, this was a no-no. I keep hoping in a startrek series, instead of a captain, we'd get a commodore... especially since most where pretty twisted in ST, and usually war dogs.

Tbh, I don't blame Ross. He saw the bigger picture, something a good leader has to do, even if it doesn't look good today, the ends do sometimes justify the means. Remember, the Romulan alliance with the Federation against the Dominion was not because they agreed to set aside centuries of hostility and make peace, it was entirely one of convenience. They may very well go back to being an enemy to the Federation and that would be worse since the war will weaken them.

🖖😎👍Very nicely well done and very well informatively executed and explained in every way indeed👌.

Nothing to do with this video, but Sean thank you for being awesome. Every Trek Culture video that pops up gets me excited. You are great presenter, funny AF and I could listen to you read a toasters instruction manual. Cheers my friend.

What I like about this list is these Admirals were not just “villains of the week.” Every actor or actress playing these characters really had to work hard and dig deep. Jean Simmons (Admiral Satie) gave my personal favourite acting performance on the list, but they were all terrific. Any bets on a new “Admiral story” for “Strange New Worlds?”

@GSBarlev

Жыл бұрын

Did you notice how every Admiral on this list (Kelvin U notwithstanding) was from the Movie era through the TNG-Picard era? The Federation leadership in TOS/TAS has been universally portrayed in a positive light. Part of that reflects Roddenberry's utopic vision, but you also see ENT's Admiral Forrest, DIS's Admiral Cornwell and SNW's Admiral April portrayed with the same leadership traits--the admiralty of the TAS era had two jobs: - be the diplomatic paragons of Federation ideals - run interference for and generally cover the butts of the captains under their command With the exception of Ross, you don't see this again in Trek until Vance.

I believe someone tells Sisko that if he ever tried another stunt like that again, they would either promote him to punish or reward him. It seems the Captain's seat is the best seat. You have the most power, while still being in the thick of things. Some paper work, but not the huge amounts admirals would have to do at a cushy desk. And he gets to control a ship and make important decisions on the ground so to speak.

@johntrevy1

Жыл бұрын

Dax said it best. It wasn't enough for him to make the decisions, he had to be the one to implement them. same as Dukat who was a Legate, but kept the Gul title because he could be closer to the front line.

@oldtwinsna8347

10 ай бұрын

Odd though, as most of Sisko's duties were bureaucratic paperwork on a fixed space station. If it wasn't for wartime, Sisko's job as commanding officer would be quite a snore compared to commanding a full blown starship.

@tilasole3252

10 ай бұрын

@@oldtwinsna8347 he was on away missions even before the Dominion War, however. But you are right. He was stationary, not like Picard or Kirk or Archer on the Enterprises where they left the ship more. The other three were captains as well.

Sean I just love your analysis and explanations.

Amazing video! Ty!

Excellent video Sean! I fully agree with you about Kirk (as well as several other admirals). The qualities that make a good admiral are not necessarily the qualities that make a good captain. But Star Fleet seems to work on the same kind of hierarchy and promotion path that every modern military I know of has. Somewhat simplified it's ensign, lieutenant, commander, captain, and admiral. The qualities that make a good captain -- the ability to be flexible, adjust to changing circumstances, taking responsibility for your own actions -- are not those that work for an admiral who has to take account of the big picture and oversee the implementation of Federation policies adopted by civilian government. You didn't include Admiral Nechayev on your list, even though many Trekkers find her annoying. Yet she was the admiral implementing Federation policy regarding the Maquis, even though it made her look bad.

@davidc.2878

Жыл бұрын

She's one of the few Admirals on TNG who actually has dimension to her character. She sometimes even agonizes over the orders she has to give Picard.

@AndrewJamesWilliams

Жыл бұрын

Necheyev implemented the policy in the DMZ even though she disagreed with it - you see that in the TNG episode with the native Americans when Picard says that it is wrong and she agrees with him and says she actually tried to get the Federation Council to realise the error, that they were giving the Cardassians too much but was ignored - because it was her duty.

You should do a series of the most incompetent Commodore's in TOS.

@allenjones3130

Жыл бұрын

Ranking high on such a list would be Matt Decker.

just when I got to thinking that you could've made a case for the number 2 admiral to be at number 1, the actual number 1 came along and it couldn't have been anyone else, in terms of the ramifications of their actions - thanks for the great list, @TrekCulture :)

Props to Brock Peters for portraying Cartwright so well and then turning around and playing Joseph Sisko. He really played the roles of the villain and good guy equally fantastically.

Love a good Badmiral

@mooniejohnson

Жыл бұрын

May I steal this term? I love it!

Fun list, Sean! Bold, but understandable, to put Kirk on there. I agree Kirk is not cut out to be an admiral - commodore (if that rank was still in starfleet) maybe - but he belongs on the bridge of starship.

@hublanderuk

Жыл бұрын

A commodore only commands a few ships. In world war 2 the Battle of the River Plate was led by a Commodore who then got promoted to Rear Admiral. Just Star Trek makes things simple by calling them all Admirals since there are different ranks of Admiral that people may not be aware of.

I never realized it as such, but yeah, Kirk was a badmiral. Also, congratulations on your restraint at never using the term "badmiral." I am compensating for this by using it twice here.

Not that we know much about her after she left Voyager, but I would put money on Admiral Janeway topping this list if we did. After some of the shenanigans she pulled as captain (Tuvix, anyone?), imagine what she did when she got promoted to admiral!

Bit surprised that Admiral Janeway from Endgame isn't on the list she in effect wipes billions of people from existence by changing the timeline because she didn't like the fact that she didn't get Seven of Nine back to the Alpha Quadrant.

@DerIrre1

Жыл бұрын

Because she technically no longer exists except maybe as an echo within the Borg Hivemind.

If I remember correctly, Brock Peters had so much trouble saying racist things as Cartwright because, as an African American actor, he'd been on the receiving end of such abuse himself. I think it took multiple takes for him to say it without grimacing too much.

One honorable mention should have been Admiral Nechayev. Yes, she was a part of the negotiations with the Cardassians, but those negotiations ended up displacing a number of colonies, made up by cultures that were nearly destroyed by forced relocation. And Nechayev wants to relocate them again. Bad move, Admiral. It’s nice living in Paradise, isn’t it?

Sean, do you write your own scripts? Just saying, I really love how much depth and insight (and frequent silliness 😜) you put into your pieces. Both entertaining and thought-provoking... with a dash of good feels on the side. 😻👍

If Dougherty isn’t number 1 we riot!

@idontwannaidontwanna7307

Жыл бұрын

Bring your pitchfork and torch then Jimmy!! 🤣

@ExploringFate

Жыл бұрын

​@@idontwannaidontwanna7307 Who has the tar and who has the feathers? No not a kink thing, for the riot guys.

One thing that is scary in the Star Trek universe is how secretive the ranks are. Captains know certain things that they aren’t allowed to talk about like omega and have very specific orders about. What crazy stuff are Admirals not able to talk about and how does that affect their view of the universe.

@berthulf

Жыл бұрын

This is the case in every "ranked" structure in human society and is not unique to Starfleet. "Heavy is the head that wears the crown." As a security officer in a busy mall, I'm aware of things happening around it that would shock the people visiting, and my supervisors are aware of things that they keep from me for similar reasons. In a family, the kids might be oblivious to their parents financial struggles, who are in turn unaware of medical problems the grandparents are dealing with. We compartmentalise information all the time, just what controls the 'need to know' varies.

@sokagofferenginar8669

Жыл бұрын

That is pretty commonly shown in fiction though you often hear about someone saying in one way or another this is on a need to know basis and you don't need to know

Spot on. Great video Sean.

I think a dishonorable mention should go to the skeeviest admiral, J.P. Hanson, who made the ignoble comments to Picard about Cmdr Shelby "Keep your eye on her, Jean-Luc, she's a very impressive young lady" and "Just an old man's fantasies."

Another nominee for the list might be Admiral Nechayev (played by Natalija Nogulich). In both TNG and DS9, she appears to act (other than some smugness in her decisions) without much regard to her emotions (which might be good), but she also seems to have understanding of anyone else's emotions or priorities (such as the Maquis and the inhabitants of the border area in general). You can see Sisko trying to control himself around her (when he really wants to yell "You're an idiot"!) and he only later explodes in front of Kira.

@davidhabert

Жыл бұрын

You have a very good point with regards to putting Admiral Nechayev to this list. Let us not also forget that she on one occasion she wanted Picard to relocate some Native American Indians from a planet, because it was being handed over to the Cardassians as part of a change of a treaty of that planet. One person who knew that this order was wrong is Wesley Crusher.

@john.premose

Жыл бұрын

@@davidhabert but technically it wasn't her decision , it came from higher up (unless that was just an excuse)

@davidhabert

Жыл бұрын

@@john.premose that's true. But it's odd how an ensign could see that this is wrong and the rest of the Federation couldn't. Maybe the ensign should be promoted to the admiral's position.

@QuestingTruck

Жыл бұрын

She was a pain in the ass but not a badmiral

@stuartwald2395

Жыл бұрын

@@QuestingTruck Are you the real one or the other guy?

BS top spot goes to Admiral Janeway. As an admiral, she lied, stole a ship, stole classified experimental technology, violated the temporal prime directive by going back in time and contacting herself, then used said technology to commit a blatant act of GENOCIDE by wiping out the Borg race. The fact that the starfleet sections in future responsible for keeping the timeline pure (and repairing Janeways damage to it) did NOT take actions to prevent the Borg genocide by a time traveling Janeway from another continuity speaks volumes about the morality of Starfleet in the future

@kemonotaku

Жыл бұрын

@SciFiDude79 It did happen because the corpse of Admiral Janeway was still in the new timeline. Like when captain whatshisnutz got trapped in 2oth century Los Angeles they dudes monitoring the timelines had to retrieve his butt and reintegrate him with the other hims. So same rules apply, that the alternate time lines did happen are still physically extant at some level.

@paulwhite6745

Жыл бұрын

Genocide is normally unconscionable of course, but it could be argued that there are no 'innocents' among the Borg because they are all part of the same collective mind. Just as killing in self-defence isn't murder, maybe wiping out the Borg is justified if it's the only way to stop them doing the same to you.

Thank you for the great show my KZread friends!

A fun video! I agree about all of these

Is Kirk on this list??? If not, why not? 😁

@jackkenefick2696

Жыл бұрын

he is

Sean, I think you ranked Kirk too high on that list, but I actually agree he should be on this list. Kirk's actions were not evil, but there were unethical in that he put his interests and the interests of Spock (and maybe Vulcan) ahead of the needs of the Federation. Kirk was a great Captain, but he had no business being an Admiral.

@MGower4465

Жыл бұрын

Kirk never wanted to be an Admiral

@Timeward76

Жыл бұрын

@@MGower4465 kirk made a mistake accepting to be an admiral. Its why his punishment for his actions is to be "demoted" to captain. The federation now knows where this man truly belongs. On the bridge of the enterprise.

Brock Peterrs is a amazing actor and deserves recognition for his contribution to Star Trek. I think the best actor playing a bad admiral was Jean Simmons.Her scenes with Picardi in the courtroom scenes were some of the best acting inn Star Trek Next Generations fourth season.

Admiral Buenamigo should definitely have been on this list. He set up the crew of the USS Cerritos, embarrassed them, and then tried to kill them when his plans started to unravel. Then he unleashed the Aledo, which killed him and numerous others at Douglas Station. He should have been pretty high on that list. Also, Admiral Kirk was just plain incompetent in The Wrath of Kahn, which got Scotty's nephew killed.