The new art is more vibrant, but I think I prefer the more narrative style of 4th. The perspective of the board is giving me a headache. The new Toad rules suck.
@Seth717Күн бұрын
Hey, thanks for the video! I really liked the music that you added in the second edition section, can you share the name of the track? Thanks!
@JasonCookingham2 күн бұрын
This was fun to watch. Thank you for the video.
@Amdor3 күн бұрын
My honest opinion is that best version of Talisman is Relic xD
@michaelstanet74534 күн бұрын
I have such mixed feelings on this book. It terms of the linked scenarios provided, some are interesting, but they don't flow together nor build on each other, in terms of rewards, branching paths etc. They are also brutaly hard but not in a way that felt fun. It is more like they are set up in a way that really hamstring certain wizards, and then you limp along getting weaker and weaker until you fail. The you realize that instead of making the wizard you want to play, it is much better to look ahead to the first 4 scenarios or so, and make the "right" wizard with spells that will not be shut down by the scenarios. None of this is put forward ahead of time. You are supposed to start at level 1 and it does not lay it out as a meat grinder type gauntlet that you need to optimize for. Yes, you can adjust difficult, mix in some games before or during to level up etc. But you only realize this after you get slapped down, and then you have to be game designer because the ball was dropped by the actual game designer. Which brings me to sections of the book that are amazing, where he describes ways of setting up solo scenarios and mechanics that can be used, and teaches a class in game design. That part is great. Glad you had a different experience with it.
@walt7765 күн бұрын
I found those same vapor snakes online and printed them out. I like them more than the official version.
@QHMCQ11 күн бұрын
Ah, I loved these TSR minigames back in my childhood. I had this one, Vampyre, They've Invaded Pleasantville and Revolt on Antares. I still have them in my basement. They were great.
@chrischarlescook11 күн бұрын
Seems like the 5th edition to an attempt to make the game more mainstream, but in a negative way. Nerfing the harshness and speeding up the game. I feel sorry for anyone who plays the 5th as their introduction to the game. Especially removing the Minstrel. Also why make the cards bigger, but text smaller? Makes no sense. Great review. Really helpful and no waffling👊
@yousini15 күн бұрын
The warrior picture lacks the iconic posture lol, not a fan at all of the upside down bottom board this time around. Dont care for new art for the most part or im just too used to 4th edition.
@EliasBremer17 күн бұрын
Thank you for comparing each card. This is what I needed. I like the idea that you can resist the siren, the maze and the marsh in more dynamic ways. I understand the change to make battles with creatures imerging from dice rolls on place cards and spaces into an instant loss of life as it goes faster, but it definitely makes the caves, forest and crags more lethal. Also the removal of missing turn options on the same spaces makes the game faster but I can understand that. Evil darkness and Storm changes I also like. I'm very dissapointed though to see absolutely zero changes to the characters except the priest and the assassin (the priest can save automatically destroyed spirits as trophies now which he couldn't before, this is a great boost for him as he was considered one of the worst characters in the game, and the assassin can assassinate on the crown of command now, I don't think they needed that boost). But the choices NOT to nerf the prophetess and NOT alter the ghoul, dwarf and sorceress and NOT boost the monk are super odd choices since it is well known how unbalanced and outdated these characters where and especially became when more characters and cards were added with expansions. I don't know who green lighted these inexistance of these alteration. Everyone knows had bad the original characters were and they kept them exactly the same! How is this even possible!!! Sry, for the rant but I am in desbelief.
@MsNosis19 күн бұрын
not a big fan of the game, but a BIG fan of your honest review, noting both things you liked and disliked with either version of the game. Not just "oh this new game is so cool, go out and buy it now!". much appreciated.
@calvanoni544320 күн бұрын
Dragon is the Ral Partha Cold Drake
@thefantasyskirmisher389418 күн бұрын
Awesome! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
@calvanoni544320 күн бұрын
Dragonman is from Dark horse miniatures.
@calvanoni544320 күн бұрын
Next is the old Balrog. By Ral Partha.
@calvanoni544320 күн бұрын
Armadillo thing is from Miniatures for Traveler box set by Grenadier.
@calvanoni544320 күн бұрын
Great oldies!
@crimsonstudios68022 күн бұрын
5th edition has been so much fun! It being my introduction to Talisman I was not disappointed. Hearing many say the game is bloated and frustrating had me worried but amidst all that I had a blast. We’ve since played many games, some of which were only a little over an hour. Some of that was due to some rule changes in 5th edition that helped play move a lot faster (namely how fate tokens work compared to 4th, and how you turn in trophies now). But I can’t express how fun the game has been, even when rolling horribly and even when I didn’t win!
@thefantasyskirmisher389422 күн бұрын
I love your comments! I’m doing a 5th Ed comparison to the 4th Ed very soon.
@EmberMusic000Ай бұрын
Love hearing about the pre-internet dominated fantasy and scifi fandoms. Cool stuff.
@Mark-nh2hsАй бұрын
The mini you showed after the crystal ball is actually a GW Chaos Sorcerer I think his name was Baal the Faceless something like that. The four armed Minotaur looking mini is The Greater Demon of Slaanesh - 80s version and still my fav.
@plauro1Ай бұрын
A huge thankyou for this tribute to my late older bro Johnny,he would love this,you rocked the vid,and the photos of him as batman,and after at the end of some of his art,my family will love,as i shared the vid with them,it brought tears to my eyes seeing him in this tribute,thankyou again...Peter....looking foward to meeting you in the near future at chrises place,we can talk about alot of the tecniques he used,and taught me for aging and overall art work
@shaneannigansАй бұрын
I'm the same. Had the opportunity to jump into this from the beginning. I held off due to lack of solo mode and then was glad I avoided it due to the deck-constuction. I just knew I didn't have the time for that so would never fare well in a tournament. Glad you're enjoying it, though.
@David.Lee78Ай бұрын
Deck construction isn't really a thing anymore due to the Rivals format. The most popular construction format now is Nemesis which is just picking the cards you want from two, and only two, Rivals decks.
@krzysztofp.4816Ай бұрын
The second edition of Talisman, in the English version, looks terrible. An atmospheric cover, but only one. The graphics, with exceptions, are incredibly ugly. Most collectors consider the Polish version of Talisman, i.e. Magic and Sword, to be the nicest version. The Polish publisher used a certain technique - the adventure, spell and item cards were in black and white. We also hired a very good artist who, through his drawings on the adventure cards, spells, etc., as well as on the character cards, created an amazing dark fantasy atmosphere.
@disciple012Ай бұрын
Bit late to the party, but you actually made that fight against the rats slightly harder on yourself than it needed to be. As per the rule book, if you succeed on a hit and the enemy succeeds on their dodge, they still take half damage rounded up.
@kitcarpo4745Ай бұрын
Nice paint work. 👌
@thefantasyskirmisher3894Ай бұрын
Thank you so much!
@privera9649Ай бұрын
Where you get the ogre card?
@NobleshieldАй бұрын
Just had someone locally suggets Oathmark as a future project. These orcs and goblins go hard, they look very old-school LotR. They definitely look like they're the same species, rather than completely different like GW ones.
@dartmart92632 ай бұрын
I just use needle nose pliers to flatten the metal base
@greenlight11072 ай бұрын
MORE Sellswords and Spellsingers please!!! just discovered this solo skirmisher and love it. Your play throughs on this game are Fantastic. Keep up the GOOD WORK!!!
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
More to come!
@gananbionico3552 ай бұрын
Is this the retail or KS version?
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
This is the KS version. In my review video, I show what you get in the retail core game.
@gananbionico3552 ай бұрын
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 So, in the retail/shops version I will get the same content?
@clonie12 ай бұрын
3rd edition looks horrible
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
It is a lot more cartoony with all the skulls. Which art we like most is a matter of personal taste. I’m really curious about the art in the upcoming 5th edition.
@joefell53112 ай бұрын
Two games that are great in their own right for different reasons, but yes I defintely think Mantic went back to drawing board with the Dungeon Saga brand and made great improvements with Origins. And the minis are greatly improved. Love your video covering this, but can I recommend the background music be toned down just a hair? Just constructive criticsm that isn't meant to be taken asbeing mean.
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll be sure to tone down the music.
@SirGambitRocks2 ай бұрын
It a fun game. Started playing back in September. Love how different and varied the many fsctions are. Also, the versatility in each factions options is excellent.
@thediminutivesoldier2 ай бұрын
great video!
@kylemcburgerson52072 ай бұрын
I love the look of mushroom forest looks great for necromolds.
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
I’m going to do a mushroom grove game of Frostgrave very soon.
@fraggelpjotten2 ай бұрын
Love the video - a very thorough and informative overview of the different editions of one of my all time favourites! One Q: I've been looking for sleeves that fit the character sheets in the 2nd edition, do you remember what slevees you used? Thanks!
@thefantasyskirmisher38942 ай бұрын
Thanks for the feedback! I borrowed the 2nd edition from a friend and I returned it. I will check with him.
@AlbertDanysh3 ай бұрын
RIP!!! Duke Bernard Reginald III. He valiantly fought the dreaded Red Dragon, but alas was not victorious. It was great to see the Tomb content in play, especially the Mosaic Floor.
@thefantasyskirmisher38943 ай бұрын
Ha! Thanks Albert! I look forward to more expansions! A cursed forest setting would be awesome!
@AlbertDanysh3 ай бұрын
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 A Cursed Forest would be cool. We've thought about having some kind of Dark Forest or something in a Forest setting. Right now, we are working on 3 expansions: A Sewer expansion, Castle expansion and a Campaign expansion. Hopefully, will have enough done to Crowdfund this summer.
@dheyrdremachado61443 ай бұрын
That was amazing!I'm playing right now thanks to you. 🎉
@theguy15633 ай бұрын
I think if you reread the farming ability, you should have only gained 1 health back. 👍🏻
@thediminutivesoldier3 ай бұрын
such a great video! Thanks! you convinced me to get it! I subbed! please send one my way too! Thanks!
@thefantasyskirmisher38943 ай бұрын
Done!
@Codog20093 ай бұрын
Great play thru. I just got my kickstarter box and have played a bit of digital to get ready. Look forward to seeing more geat stuff. Next time 1 die !
@d.aardent93823 ай бұрын
Thanks for presenting this, i couldnt find anyone showing the new edition play, as i was trying to decide if i was going to get in on preordering for the next edition printing. Which i think with the new expansions the makers are talking about, some new scenarios, that i will probably decide to go ahead and invest in it. It looks like something that i would actually have time and space to play. Lol As i just dont have enough free space right now to set up big games and i dont have enough spare time to do a lot of complicated games presently. I keep getting nostalgia from this as it reminds me of when i used to play Deathtrap Dungeon CYOA book over and over as a teenager. Lol Its like a more complex form of that but has a lot more depth and interesting stuff going on to fill it out to make it feel much more intriguing and unique every time , and not just the same limited choices and same scenes again again. But it has the same spirit of the adventuring fantasy stuff
@jeremy63163 ай бұрын
Also as an FYI while not the same as owning the board game it is available digitally on steam. I believe it's $16 if anyone is interested.
@messenger34783 ай бұрын
I wish the dalux version was still available in print.
@thefantasyskirmisher38943 ай бұрын
There is a reprint in the works.
@messenger34783 ай бұрын
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 I am happy I have either 5 or 5.5 edition that I printed.
@JacobScott00003 ай бұрын
to be fair, you want the pit of despair as soon as possible to get it out the way before the more powerful monsters come up
@bonescollector53673 ай бұрын
Great! Now where do we get a copy? That's what I thought.
@thefantasyskirmisher38943 ай бұрын
The game sold out, but Cerberus Gate Games just announced a reprint.
@1invag3 ай бұрын
Try googling rogue dungeon second edition. I just did found it available for preorder straight away
@Mind_of_MATT3 ай бұрын
What are the lowest & highest number of dice for attack & defense? Enemies & Characters.
@bankingonmoney82243 ай бұрын
Thanks for these videos as it has me sold on the game. This is small but meaty enough with good amount of content to keep my interest. Now I have to wait for pre-orders.
@AlbertDanysh3 ай бұрын
Ouch!
@CharlesTabony3 ай бұрын
Nice video! A few corrections: When you increase vitality, you increase health by the same amount. It looks like you spent all 3 XP leveling strength from 2 to 3 when that only costs 2 XP. When you charm a monster, you actually also get the XP and loot for defeating it. That figure is actually supposed to be the male ranger, but the ranger happens to look more similar than the male/female versions of other heroes. The version of each hero printed on their figure is the same as the one depicted on the top of their starting cards, which happens to be the version that was drawn first, I think.
@d.aardent93823 ай бұрын
Nice, i couldn't find anyone showing the new edition play yet. I am still dithering on buying it when the next edition comes out as the makers say they already have a lot of people that missed out and say they want to get it, so they are already preparing for another edition, but they are going to do new area exploring expansions and other additions to it. I dont keep up on kickstarters and inde games much as im too busy with work, so i wish i had known about this 2nd ed. before it came out. It seemed more interesting than the 1st ed.with the bigger dungeons. Getting the next one would depend on whether or not i find something better i want more as i dont have the money to get everything.
@JacobScott00003 ай бұрын
Hi 👋🏻 I've got few dungeon crawlers including Gloomhaven, Nemesis, Sword and Sorcery, Resident evil (very good!), wrath of ashardalon, castle ravenloft, massive darkness 2 & heroquest - yes, I have a problem lol. They're all good, although i sold ashardalon + ravenloft when i got massive darkness and ive never played gloomhaven because i just can't be arsed to set it all up. and thats the thing i love about this game; it gets to the table. It doesn't overstay it's welcome, looks and plays great, tonnes of variety and a very good challenge.
Пікірлер
The new art is more vibrant, but I think I prefer the more narrative style of 4th. The perspective of the board is giving me a headache. The new Toad rules suck.
Hey, thanks for the video! I really liked the music that you added in the second edition section, can you share the name of the track? Thanks!
This was fun to watch. Thank you for the video.
My honest opinion is that best version of Talisman is Relic xD
I have such mixed feelings on this book. It terms of the linked scenarios provided, some are interesting, but they don't flow together nor build on each other, in terms of rewards, branching paths etc. They are also brutaly hard but not in a way that felt fun. It is more like they are set up in a way that really hamstring certain wizards, and then you limp along getting weaker and weaker until you fail. The you realize that instead of making the wizard you want to play, it is much better to look ahead to the first 4 scenarios or so, and make the "right" wizard with spells that will not be shut down by the scenarios. None of this is put forward ahead of time. You are supposed to start at level 1 and it does not lay it out as a meat grinder type gauntlet that you need to optimize for. Yes, you can adjust difficult, mix in some games before or during to level up etc. But you only realize this after you get slapped down, and then you have to be game designer because the ball was dropped by the actual game designer. Which brings me to sections of the book that are amazing, where he describes ways of setting up solo scenarios and mechanics that can be used, and teaches a class in game design. That part is great. Glad you had a different experience with it.
I found those same vapor snakes online and printed them out. I like them more than the official version.
Ah, I loved these TSR minigames back in my childhood. I had this one, Vampyre, They've Invaded Pleasantville and Revolt on Antares. I still have them in my basement. They were great.
Seems like the 5th edition to an attempt to make the game more mainstream, but in a negative way. Nerfing the harshness and speeding up the game. I feel sorry for anyone who plays the 5th as their introduction to the game. Especially removing the Minstrel. Also why make the cards bigger, but text smaller? Makes no sense. Great review. Really helpful and no waffling👊
The warrior picture lacks the iconic posture lol, not a fan at all of the upside down bottom board this time around. Dont care for new art for the most part or im just too used to 4th edition.
Thank you for comparing each card. This is what I needed. I like the idea that you can resist the siren, the maze and the marsh in more dynamic ways. I understand the change to make battles with creatures imerging from dice rolls on place cards and spaces into an instant loss of life as it goes faster, but it definitely makes the caves, forest and crags more lethal. Also the removal of missing turn options on the same spaces makes the game faster but I can understand that. Evil darkness and Storm changes I also like. I'm very dissapointed though to see absolutely zero changes to the characters except the priest and the assassin (the priest can save automatically destroyed spirits as trophies now which he couldn't before, this is a great boost for him as he was considered one of the worst characters in the game, and the assassin can assassinate on the crown of command now, I don't think they needed that boost). But the choices NOT to nerf the prophetess and NOT alter the ghoul, dwarf and sorceress and NOT boost the monk are super odd choices since it is well known how unbalanced and outdated these characters where and especially became when more characters and cards were added with expansions. I don't know who green lighted these inexistance of these alteration. Everyone knows had bad the original characters were and they kept them exactly the same! How is this even possible!!! Sry, for the rant but I am in desbelief.
not a big fan of the game, but a BIG fan of your honest review, noting both things you liked and disliked with either version of the game. Not just "oh this new game is so cool, go out and buy it now!". much appreciated.
Dragon is the Ral Partha Cold Drake
Awesome! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Dragonman is from Dark horse miniatures.
Next is the old Balrog. By Ral Partha.
Armadillo thing is from Miniatures for Traveler box set by Grenadier.
Great oldies!
5th edition has been so much fun! It being my introduction to Talisman I was not disappointed. Hearing many say the game is bloated and frustrating had me worried but amidst all that I had a blast. We’ve since played many games, some of which were only a little over an hour. Some of that was due to some rule changes in 5th edition that helped play move a lot faster (namely how fate tokens work compared to 4th, and how you turn in trophies now). But I can’t express how fun the game has been, even when rolling horribly and even when I didn’t win!
I love your comments! I’m doing a 5th Ed comparison to the 4th Ed very soon.
Love hearing about the pre-internet dominated fantasy and scifi fandoms. Cool stuff.
The mini you showed after the crystal ball is actually a GW Chaos Sorcerer I think his name was Baal the Faceless something like that. The four armed Minotaur looking mini is The Greater Demon of Slaanesh - 80s version and still my fav.
A huge thankyou for this tribute to my late older bro Johnny,he would love this,you rocked the vid,and the photos of him as batman,and after at the end of some of his art,my family will love,as i shared the vid with them,it brought tears to my eyes seeing him in this tribute,thankyou again...Peter....looking foward to meeting you in the near future at chrises place,we can talk about alot of the tecniques he used,and taught me for aging and overall art work
I'm the same. Had the opportunity to jump into this from the beginning. I held off due to lack of solo mode and then was glad I avoided it due to the deck-constuction. I just knew I didn't have the time for that so would never fare well in a tournament. Glad you're enjoying it, though.
Deck construction isn't really a thing anymore due to the Rivals format. The most popular construction format now is Nemesis which is just picking the cards you want from two, and only two, Rivals decks.
The second edition of Talisman, in the English version, looks terrible. An atmospheric cover, but only one. The graphics, with exceptions, are incredibly ugly. Most collectors consider the Polish version of Talisman, i.e. Magic and Sword, to be the nicest version. The Polish publisher used a certain technique - the adventure, spell and item cards were in black and white. We also hired a very good artist who, through his drawings on the adventure cards, spells, etc., as well as on the character cards, created an amazing dark fantasy atmosphere.
Bit late to the party, but you actually made that fight against the rats slightly harder on yourself than it needed to be. As per the rule book, if you succeed on a hit and the enemy succeeds on their dodge, they still take half damage rounded up.
Nice paint work. 👌
Thank you so much!
Where you get the ogre card?
Just had someone locally suggets Oathmark as a future project. These orcs and goblins go hard, they look very old-school LotR. They definitely look like they're the same species, rather than completely different like GW ones.
I just use needle nose pliers to flatten the metal base
MORE Sellswords and Spellsingers please!!! just discovered this solo skirmisher and love it. Your play throughs on this game are Fantastic. Keep up the GOOD WORK!!!
More to come!
Is this the retail or KS version?
This is the KS version. In my review video, I show what you get in the retail core game.
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 So, in the retail/shops version I will get the same content?
3rd edition looks horrible
It is a lot more cartoony with all the skulls. Which art we like most is a matter of personal taste. I’m really curious about the art in the upcoming 5th edition.
Two games that are great in their own right for different reasons, but yes I defintely think Mantic went back to drawing board with the Dungeon Saga brand and made great improvements with Origins. And the minis are greatly improved. Love your video covering this, but can I recommend the background music be toned down just a hair? Just constructive criticsm that isn't meant to be taken asbeing mean.
Thanks for the feedback. I’ll be sure to tone down the music.
It a fun game. Started playing back in September. Love how different and varied the many fsctions are. Also, the versatility in each factions options is excellent.
great video!
I love the look of mushroom forest looks great for necromolds.
I’m going to do a mushroom grove game of Frostgrave very soon.
Love the video - a very thorough and informative overview of the different editions of one of my all time favourites! One Q: I've been looking for sleeves that fit the character sheets in the 2nd edition, do you remember what slevees you used? Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback! I borrowed the 2nd edition from a friend and I returned it. I will check with him.
RIP!!! Duke Bernard Reginald III. He valiantly fought the dreaded Red Dragon, but alas was not victorious. It was great to see the Tomb content in play, especially the Mosaic Floor.
Ha! Thanks Albert! I look forward to more expansions! A cursed forest setting would be awesome!
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 A Cursed Forest would be cool. We've thought about having some kind of Dark Forest or something in a Forest setting. Right now, we are working on 3 expansions: A Sewer expansion, Castle expansion and a Campaign expansion. Hopefully, will have enough done to Crowdfund this summer.
That was amazing!I'm playing right now thanks to you. 🎉
I think if you reread the farming ability, you should have only gained 1 health back. 👍🏻
such a great video! Thanks! you convinced me to get it! I subbed! please send one my way too! Thanks!
Done!
Great play thru. I just got my kickstarter box and have played a bit of digital to get ready. Look forward to seeing more geat stuff. Next time 1 die !
Thanks for presenting this, i couldnt find anyone showing the new edition play, as i was trying to decide if i was going to get in on preordering for the next edition printing. Which i think with the new expansions the makers are talking about, some new scenarios, that i will probably decide to go ahead and invest in it. It looks like something that i would actually have time and space to play. Lol As i just dont have enough free space right now to set up big games and i dont have enough spare time to do a lot of complicated games presently. I keep getting nostalgia from this as it reminds me of when i used to play Deathtrap Dungeon CYOA book over and over as a teenager. Lol Its like a more complex form of that but has a lot more depth and interesting stuff going on to fill it out to make it feel much more intriguing and unique every time , and not just the same limited choices and same scenes again again. But it has the same spirit of the adventuring fantasy stuff
Also as an FYI while not the same as owning the board game it is available digitally on steam. I believe it's $16 if anyone is interested.
I wish the dalux version was still available in print.
There is a reprint in the works.
@@thefantasyskirmisher3894 I am happy I have either 5 or 5.5 edition that I printed.
to be fair, you want the pit of despair as soon as possible to get it out the way before the more powerful monsters come up
Great! Now where do we get a copy? That's what I thought.
The game sold out, but Cerberus Gate Games just announced a reprint.
Try googling rogue dungeon second edition. I just did found it available for preorder straight away
What are the lowest & highest number of dice for attack & defense? Enemies & Characters.
Thanks for these videos as it has me sold on the game. This is small but meaty enough with good amount of content to keep my interest. Now I have to wait for pre-orders.
Ouch!
Nice video! A few corrections: When you increase vitality, you increase health by the same amount. It looks like you spent all 3 XP leveling strength from 2 to 3 when that only costs 2 XP. When you charm a monster, you actually also get the XP and loot for defeating it. That figure is actually supposed to be the male ranger, but the ranger happens to look more similar than the male/female versions of other heroes. The version of each hero printed on their figure is the same as the one depicted on the top of their starting cards, which happens to be the version that was drawn first, I think.
Nice, i couldn't find anyone showing the new edition play yet. I am still dithering on buying it when the next edition comes out as the makers say they already have a lot of people that missed out and say they want to get it, so they are already preparing for another edition, but they are going to do new area exploring expansions and other additions to it. I dont keep up on kickstarters and inde games much as im too busy with work, so i wish i had known about this 2nd ed. before it came out. It seemed more interesting than the 1st ed.with the bigger dungeons. Getting the next one would depend on whether or not i find something better i want more as i dont have the money to get everything.
Hi 👋🏻 I've got few dungeon crawlers including Gloomhaven, Nemesis, Sword and Sorcery, Resident evil (very good!), wrath of ashardalon, castle ravenloft, massive darkness 2 & heroquest - yes, I have a problem lol. They're all good, although i sold ashardalon + ravenloft when i got massive darkness and ive never played gloomhaven because i just can't be arsed to set it all up. and thats the thing i love about this game; it gets to the table. It doesn't overstay it's welcome, looks and plays great, tonnes of variety and a very good challenge.