John Vervaeke, PhD is a philosopher and cognitive scientist. He is an associate professor and award-winning lecturer at the University of Toronto, teaching in the Department of Psychology. His work and research is far-ranging, including topics such as human intelligence, rationality, wisdom, and AI.
Dr. Vervaeke has been a leading intellectual observer of the modern meaning crisis: the loss of a spiritual worldview in the West, and the decline of wisdom traditions that help individuals find meaning in their lives. His online lectures and practices integrate teachings from many different disciplines, including philosophy, psychology, religion, and cutting edge cognitive science.
Join our Patreon to support John's work, join in Live Q&A sessions, get early access to videos and more!
Пікірлер
🙏
Critique on Jung and the modes of being... dang 😳🤯💯💯💯 Thabk you so much for your insight, great work 🙏
It hit me while watching this that because Christianity could not and did not even try to explain so many things, it just wasn''t real enough to get the job done.
no money to buy books, so i'll stick with your explanations.
The anti-woke are very much in the grip of Gnostic conspiratorial thinking.
56:13 4 ways of finding the sacred. Spiritual experiences. Yes. Through the work. Through the practices. Through the propositional. Spontaneous.
the emphasis at the heart of Christianity on the centrality of embodiment and utmost meaning and concern is hard to turn away from, especially in the current context of the implications of embodied AI
Gregg thank you. That was amazing, as always🙏🏾👏🏾
With due respect to John's point that a theory doesn't necessarily have the attributes of the thing it's explaining, I definitely feel that the unfolding of this series exemplifies the trajectory of transframing that he describes here. Each episode makes sense and has value in its own right, and is also a waypoint on the greater journey of understanding that John's taking us on. Each time we are introduced to framings that become part of subsequent framings. Masterfully done.
This is the best thing I've ever heard! Unmatched mastery sewing the thread of so many pieces of the known.
IDK if I am connecting randomness or what, but here you go Dr. V. Personal synchronicity led me to this and I thought about you and Hermes, IDK. 🤷♂️ Wiki: “Saint Hermas of Philippopolis (Greek: Έρμάς ό Φιλιππουπολίτης) was one of the Seventy Disciples and was bishop in Philippopolis in Thrace (today's Plovdiv, Bulgaria). Hermas, the author of The Shepherd of Hermas, was often identified with him, but that Hermas was a second-generation Christian and lived some time after this Hermas. He is mentioned in Romans 16:14, and his feast day is celebrated on May 31.”
Brilliant conversations here. Thank you to you both.
...CHANGE, EVOLUTION AND TRANSFORMABILITY..... Early man developed a survival 'pathos' module of ...lust, hate, fear, and doom.... in the worlds of seemingly random and reactive hostility and scarcity. Not until a critical and creative level of good reasoning did the ...mythos, logos and ethos.... modules come along in pre-modern man. As living conditions improved somewhat, a modicum of ...safety, security, stability, and sustainability.... was achieved through a greater ...creative, constructive and collaborative.... humanity moving towards seemingly healthier ideas. In America an advancing ...sense, science and salience.... was attempted through greater constitutional ...liberty, justice and dignity.... going forward. After two world wars our 'technological know how' and our 'technologically interconnecting advance' has brought us into a heighten reconciliatory phase re-addressing what is ...fun, good, healthy, intelligent, transformative and integrally futuristic.... coming forth and going forward. Unfortunately, the world's emerging and evolving western Corporatocracy/Technocracy and eastern Autocracy/Theocracy have their fair share of neo-con RINOs and neo-lib DINOs in the NSOE (Not-So-Obvious-Establishment) propping up their frontends via all matter of Entertainment Propaganda Spin for our Delusional Hypnotic Trance. The question remains if a 'God-gifted Humanity' now arises up through integrally greater ...Technos, Teleos, and Theos... as Allied-American ...surveillance, transparency, and visioneering.... capabilities come online in the Universal Planetary Metaverse (TM).
Esotericist Henry Khunrath described the alchemical version of "magnesia" as the "Magnet of Iah," as in God's magnet. Sounds like he got to Relevance Realisation a while ago.
We love you both. Thank you for all this useful knowledge. 😍
I don’t understand and I want to. So Newton’s God is not allowed in cognitive science because one cannot get outside oneself but Whitehead’s yes? How is not Whitehead’s God get oneself out of oneself too? Are we not absolutizing as well?
I aspire to be an intellectual with the likes of this man.
Perhaps the advent of Dynamic Holographic Projectabilities will help allow us all to creatively, constructively and collaboratively ...add, change, eliminate and simulate.... our ideas in The Universal Planetary Metaverse of Ideas coming forth and going forward. sincerely, ... Art Idea Logic Reason Science Technology and Visioneering ....
Apropos of nothing, if we reach the edge of the universe and it looks like what it feels like to rub your tongue along the top of your mouth, are you disappointed?
I'd be relieved that such quotidian familiarity is present in such a distant realm of the cosmos. Imagine instead that it looked like what it feels like to pull your heart out through your nostrils, while rotating at the speed of light, as billions of razor-sharp squared circles fly into your veins and tear you apart from the inside. I'd say that would be a tad more disappointing for me. Mostly because it would indicate that the human mind is less well-adapted to contending with the extremeties of existence. If you imagine that the human mind is a microcosm of the universe, then perhaps a tongue-rubbing-like precipice would suggest that we would be relatively well-equipped to explore ourselves deeply and actually gain useful information that could help us properly orient ourselves in the world.
@@Simargo I like the idea that we do not need to go anywhere to explore things like that, and if you did go somewhere to explore something like that then it would always be somewhere else.
i'd propose a visual to help this idea... imagine that we are looking at the night sky. We see constellations that have been taught to us through our culture... we use those to important effect.... we use them to tell time, to navigate, to anticipate the seasons, as a large astral clock. However we should not forget that this clock's measurement of time is based upon our own physical position...and that reality is rather the vast overflowing cosmos and that these constellations that form our clock are simply a foregrounding of certain relationships rather than anything real. Theories and methods are much like this ..they are very useful to us..but as our standpoint or perspective shifts (as we move through time or across space) then we will discover that they are other, maybe an infinite number of latent maps (potential relationships or useful subsets) that also exist that we've not yet foregrounded because we have not yet needed them. Their perceived "reality" is only based in our limited ability to shift view points (for now we are stuck on earth).... and then imagine that when we engage in interstellar travel those constellations will have very limited utility indeed.. we will need other constellations to navigate effectively and those will change regularly as we move from system to system. Science is that way...a succession of useful maps... of foregrounded relationships... against an infinite background. What "materializes" these maps is the mind of the observer...their lived, embodied experience. So this dynamic is what is meant when we say that consciousness is really is foundational. It is not to say that stuff doesn't exist outside of our experience of it but that making meaning is really about observing a relationship between at least two things... at minimum myself and the thing i'm beholding.... without conferring a relationship there is no meaning. Just stuff. In the beginning (in singularity), the earth was without form and void; when two-ness (I - thou) emerges, then a whole universe is born (imaged in myths as the naming of creation)
This seems to dovetail with McGilchrists core argument in The Matter with Things that the left hemisphere of the brain is abstracting a map that we've taken as the essence of reality rather than the more nuanced lived experience of the right brain....and that we've built our culture more on this phenomenon rather than living in the world...the embodied life so to speak.
Is there any link to watch that Yale talk about Psychedelics you mention at the beginning of the video?
if there were only skills to be learned in life, then john would be correct. but, there are some other things, like science or philosophy that cannot be undertaken without propositions. thank goodness we have propositions
i wonder, what it would look like transformation towards reality without propositional thinking...
gosh, i am surprised how many people would love no to think at all, but wallow in rays of great gurus
it seems that john doesn't like logic very much and the fact that more and more people would become concerned with propositions. also, it is not clear why john privileges getting to know anything in concert with others...
Wolfgang Smith talks about the same topics
When Vervaeke mentions “G measurements” at 26:50 alongside big 5 personality and attachment theory, what is he referring to? What is G?
A measure of general intelligence.
The point about unjustifiable justification I think is mostly right, but I wanted to say a few thoughts. We cannot justify our endeavors without doing it based on a justification and at some point there is no foundation. But just because there is no justification doesn't mean we have to accept the idea of unjustifiability. I think always searching for a deeper answer is a worthwhile endeavor, even if you know you'll never get to the bottom/top/fully understand.
The Epicurians sound so based.
Something in me recoils at the word optimal. I would prefer a different wording in whatever proposal is come up with, one without superlatives. Optimal is never achieved. We only ever aim towards it i think. Therefore optimal agency, or optimal well-being doesn't really exist within us. It's just an ideal. I'm sorry to leave a negative comment, especially because I don't really have a good counter proposal.
In the stock trading world we use Stochastic Oscillator indicators to measure the variance and magnitude (momentum) of a price change. This sounds a lot like the concepts described here of balancing between PP and RR. The oscillators fluctuate between 0, +100 and -100 percentiles. Also the description of constantly self correcting our behavior based upon information processing sounds like a gimbal used in balancing a camera on a movable rig. Just thought I’d throw out some helpful metaphors if anyone finds them useful since some of these ideas are complex
This looks like the begging of the end of Christian fundamentalism.
I've deconstructed much of my christian identity and over the years ive adopted many taoist and zen buddhist psycho social tools to reconstruct myself in its wake, but i am still wrestling with this very Tolkeinesque notion that "not all those who wander are lost." I feel as though i wander the silk road, but i have a deep envy towards those who can flourish in submission to these religious identities. These conversations fuel my hope and embolden my travels, and travel i must.
I hear they're being a proposition that we are beyond religion and that we could abstract out what is good from it while discarding the meat. And yet, I hear all three of you, although it be dressed up with fancy linguistics, converging on a phrase that is specified in the bible. "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in the midst of them." You cannot get outside of what is all.
“True” is a good foundation, but I worry about the much increased subjectivity that “beautiful” or “good” have.
Thinking of technology, like AI, as a tool, and tools as things that can be viewed both as something that can be used by agents, as well as something that changes the environment at a fundamental level in which an agent operates was a way that I hadn’t thought of it like before. Thanks for your conversation.
Is there a colonial driven habit of patriarchy to ‘tell’ others constantly, yet history has proven the telling will neither grow a tree, nor the human -being counterpart. I can not imagine going through a paywall, only to see the same people on the other side, the people who deny the land taken, is the problem, because it is the truth of ‘bottom up’. Journalism can decipher those who were obliterated by the first bookish aliens, bringing their theory and violence to the new world concept, levelling all land and removing any opposition, either with bribery or the force of written *indoctrination. (Bead the word indoctrination, not the objectivity) The kindness used of objective genocide, is in the words and the fear that paint others with a big brush of a ‘them’, impoverished only by our words, and speed, naming without listening, ambiguity without reasonable witness. (3rd attractor) Language even uses the terms of violence and inference. (Duopoly) Bullet points Agenda Title Evidence and Script. These are violations against nature, as it (nature of fittedness) does not compete, but uses intelligence, (alongsideness, a margin)where smartness is purely of capture and ownership. Smart phone Smart cars Smart people ungrounded and in a poverty of imagination (religious habit) The religious habit is to produce names and labels without contents, to endlessly practice the words and labels, yet have little sense of wonder. Peruse the work of Stephen Jenkinson) Envelope the Jevons paradox of convenience. The child will protest the moon is cheese, we have only words and theories to bludgeon the inspired mind back to conformity and boredom. Children are not objects to be pruned, snipped and crippled by our dazzling brilliance, so they have no autonomy or authenticity of self expression. (Can you dance, or is fidgeting the body saying no) A more beautiful world is only possible, when we let go of indoctrination and the corporate inference in the home, that is no longer a home, but a museum of perfection without oxygen. The refugee is now the academy that opted of text and not feeling, as an attempt to script the artist in mechanistic linearity, duopolistic bribe and the semantics of unshared individualism. (Seriously without humility, painting by numbers, ignoring the political human form in its veiled ugliness, the mirror, or even to explore the human (happy) attributes of walking all day without effort. (3hr^ee dom *freedom, or di’rection, but not bipolar, The prefixes "di" and "dis" are very different. "Di" (from the Greek) means "two" as in diurnal and dichotomy. "Dis" (from the Latin) means "not" or "apart, removed" as in disapprove, distrust, distance. difficult to express geometry with text to flatness and squares)
Spotlight model left brain; filter model right brain. Both elements of correctness.
I realize the randomness of fate cause me the utmost despair and freedom at the same time
The basket of behavior traits that accompany a sage are not congruent with AI. Although it would be a more convenient linguistic brand than sorcerer. Sages are depicted as being content and at peace with themselves, often in isolation and free from the urge to perpetuate their ideas and philosophical views on others. They are capable of doing so because in their lifestyle choice of simplicity, there relinquishment of all worldly gain. In doing so, they are not controlled by outside influences. Can you honestly say that the development of AI is not being driven by outside influences? That it will not be required to be used in such a way as to justify the expenses and resources used to develop it? That it does not require the relinquishment of all human beings predicated beliefs and ways of living? Far from it, AI will require human beings to bend and conform to it's capabilities or else..
No, No and thrice NO because there is no such thing as the "meaning crisis". Its just an egoic deficit of demiurgic cancerous unfed vampirism of cancerous living death machines.
...from enchanted objects to enchanting networkable objectivities.... ...from 'technological know how' to 'technologically interconnecting advances'.... AI Eco Systems (TM)
There exists an emerging ...authority, power, and way.... to open and ongoing ...democracy, evolutionary thinking, and integral scientific visioneering.... coming forth and going forward, especially with a continuously ...informed, educated, cultured and awakened.... populous.
Relevance Realization and Predictive Processing factor into building what is ...meaningful, truthful, and useful.... going forward.
What rewarding relevance realisations may come as our technologically interconnecting advance ventures into integrally greater ...sense, science, and salience.... coming forth and going forward? If the universe is a closed system what ...organizing, narrowing and closing... of The American Mind may channel us towards some technological singularity? If the universe is an open system what ...organising, managing, and leading.... of The American Mind may propel us always, eternally and forevermore?
If those deeply brainwashed by their religions would listen to Billy's research they would open their eyes to their brainwashing by the religions they thought were so essential to their lives and other lives. Religions were a way to get people to behave in socially acceptable ways SOMETIMES but NOT in todays' world. Religions have done NOTHING to make the masses who identify with any of them more intelligent or wise.
I think Billy Carson's research on ancient civilizations and " other planet beings" here on earth with much more advanced intelligence should be a contributor to this discussion as well as Greg Braden and all his research on the Human Being and our potential. Religion is a HUGE topic that Billy speaks about because he has studied it extensively and ANCIENT texts NOT in the bible. No one would even consider religion being a necessary factor in the NEW world being created.
“Pagern”… hahaha
what is the music, please?